House of Commons Hansard #79 of the 37th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was united.

Topics

Business of the HouseGovernment Orders

4:15 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

(Motion agreed to)

Business of the HouseGovernment Orders

4:20 p.m.

Canadian Alliance

Jay Hill Canadian Alliance Prince George—Peace River, BC

Mr. Speaker, would you seek unanimous consent, in the spirit of co-operation, for the debate tonight to be considered the same as report stage with 10 minute speeches and no questions or comments in order that the maximum number of speakers could get up between now and 10 p.m.?

Business of the HouseGovernment Orders

4:20 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Bélair)

Is there consent?

Business of the HouseGovernment Orders

4:20 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

Business of the HouseGovernment Orders

4:20 p.m.

Some hon. members

No.

The House resumed consideration of the motion.

Attack on the United StatesGovernment Orders

4:20 p.m.

Canadian Alliance

Leon Benoit Canadian Alliance Lakeland, AB

Mr. Speaker, I will be sharing my time with another member of the Alliance and all future speakers will do the same.

Ace Bailey went to work on Tuesday morning as usual. He boarded an airplane to perform his duties as a scout in the great Canadian game of hockey. In fact, he was an NHL scout.

Ace Bailey was born and raised in Lloydminster, the same town that I was raised in. In fact, he was two years older than me. He had an NHL career, including one year with the greatest team hockey ever had, the Edmonton Oilers. He was proud of that, his family was proud of that and so was the city of Lloydminster.

Ace Bailey was on the second plane that was seized by terrorists and flown into the second tower of the World Trade Center. He died in that terrible act of terrorism.

I would like to take this opportunity to offer my sincere condolences and prayers to the family and friends of Ace Bailey as they mourn their great loss.

For those Canadians who are still missing from the attack on the World Trade Center and for those whose lives have been silenced by this act of cruelty, I promise that we will learn from these losses. We will not forget the messages of last Tuesday's attack. We must not. We will make this world a safer place for their children and we will reaffirm the spirit of democracy and freedom in this country and in the free world.

I would also like to say that I admire the people of New York. We heard stories and saw images on television of people helping friends from the office buildings, even though they thought there might be a bomb or some kind of attack. They were helping an acquaintance or a fellow worker get out of the building in very dangerous circumstances. These acts of heroism will never be forgotten by any of us.

I admire the acts of heroism on the part of the police and firemen. As I watched the images on TV, they had to have known the tower was going to collapse, particularly after the first one did. We have to admire people who would behave like this in that kind of situation, and I do.

I admire the incredible acts of heroism by the people aboard the fourth plane. They phoned home to say goodbye and to say that they loved their husbands or their wives and their children. Then they went on to say that they would do what they could to stop the terrorists from hitting another target. We will never know the real story of what went on in that airplane, but it is absolutely admirable and touching to think of what they did.

We saw the very best of the human race last Tuesday, which followed the very worst.

Now we have to get on with the business of government and the business of running this country.

Today's business is the safety and security of the citizens of this country. As the senior defence critic, it is my responsibility to ask those tough questions and to point out the weaknesses that I see in Canada's national defence and I will carry out that responsibility.

The Canadian Alliance was elected as the Official Opposition to do that, to hold the government accountable and to offer positive alternatives. I will do that in this debate.

I would like to start by reminding people of what our national defence, the Canadian forces, provide.

First, they provide a force to deal with any civil unrest which may occur. They provide search and rescue for people in desperate need. They provide disaster relief, like in the ice storm and in the various floods that we had. They are there to protect our sovereignty, particularly in the northern waters, so we can identify this land clearly as Canadian land and others cannot claim the property.

They must meet Canada's commitments to NATO, NORAD, to our great alliances and to the United Nations. That is what Canadians expect from our forces.

The 2000 public report from CSIS said that Canada's increasing military and political roles in world events had augmented this country's visibility as had involvement in military actions against Iraq and Kosovo.

The CSIS report is saying that because we have become directly involved in military action, we are far more likely to be the victims of terrorist attacks then we were before. Therefore, it is that much more important that we are prepared, capable and willing to meet our commitments.

I want to talk first about our NATO commitments. Can Canada meet its military commitments to NATO? The issue is extremely important because of this great alliance and the security of our nation and our people. It is also extremely important due to economic implications, which are important as well.

I would argue that Canada has foreign affairs and military commitments well beyond its size. That is demonstrated with our membership in the G-8. Much beyond the size and population of the country, we have a military and a foreign affairs obligation beyond that size.

These are the questions I want to ask to the Minister of National Defence and the government. Where will Canada get the people and the equipment to fulfill our obligations to our NATO allies? If there is a NATO strike against terrorist groups involved in the attacks in New York and Washington, will the Canadian contribution be mostly symbolic?

When I listened to the Minister of National Defence as he made his statement and answered questions just before this presentation, I was disturbed by two things.

First, he said that it was highly unlikely that there would be a traditional NATO attack. It was almost as though through wishful thinking he could avoid having to meet the commitment to our NATO allies. Sadly it is most likely that there will be a traditional attack and that we will be asked for military personnel and equipment to meet our obligations. Wishful thinking is not going to work here.

Second, I was concerned when the minister said that we pretty much had what we needed. I would be quite happy to hear him say that we were short, that we had not committed enough to the security of our nation through the Department of National Defence so we could move on and together build a strong national defence. That is what I was hoping to hear from the minister. Unfortunately, that did not happen.

These tough questions must be asked.

I would like to point out what happened two weeks ago. Canada was asked by NATO to make a commitment to Macedonia. Canada could not meet the commitment, so it took about 200 of our people out of one NATO commitment in Bosnia to meet our commitment in Macedonia, another NATO commitment. That is like paying one credit card account off with another credit card to keep from declaring bankruptcy.

We have a serious problem. Now that we have come down to the crunch, Canadians have the right to know that their security and safety here at home and their military commitments abroad can be met by the government. It is extremely important that over the next few weeks the government and the Minister of National Defence explain in some detail exactly how Canada is going to meet that commitment.

I want to close by saying one thing. Now is the time for unity, determination and resolve and we must aim that determination and resolve at those people who have committed this heinous act. Let us make sure that we offer our support, our love, our prayers and our friendship, particularly to members of the Muslim and the Arab communities who right now really need that kind of support.

Attack on the United StatesGovernment Orders

4:30 p.m.

Liberal

Peter Adams Liberal Peterborough, ON

Mr. Speaker, I listened with interest to what my colleague had to say. I disagree with some of the things he said but I did appreciate his tone. I would like to ask him a question.

Like the rest of us, I am sure he has been receiving phone calls, has had conversations on the streets in his riding and has received e-mails from all sorts of people. Some people are very angry but I suspect many of those people are as afraid and worried as most people are about what will happen to them and their families.

People have telephoned me concerning human rights and about ethnic groups in Canada. They are concerned about the women and children overseas. One group, in an extraordinary response, has been conducting a vigil once a week all summer outside my riding office against the sanctions in Iraq . They, with great courage, have appeared before my office once again.

Faced with this range of people and all their concerns, what is he, as a member of parliament, saying to the individuals in his constituency who are afraid, angry or whatever, as a result of this conflict?

Attack on the United StatesGovernment Orders

4:30 p.m.

Canadian Alliance

Leon Benoit Canadian Alliance Lakeland, AB

Mr. Speaker, I have heard those things but most calls to me by far have been from people expressing their concern that our military will not be able to meet its obligations and will not be able to provide security in this country should we have a similar disaster here at home. They are afraid. They want the assurance that the protection and security that comes from the armed forces, which is our largest security body in the country, will be there. They are concerned that the numbers in our forces have dropped from 90,000 to 55,000 and still on their way down. They are concerned that the one place the government has cut spending is 30% for military spending. They know we cannot make those cuts and still meet the security needs and expectations of Canadians. They know we need better equipment when we send our men and women over into very difficult situations.

That is what I am hearing from the people in my constituency. They are extremely concerned about those things.

Because of the time and the type of situation we are in perhaps I have not said what I would really like to say if I were to vent my spleen because I am frustrated, but what I will say is that those are good questions and I will ask the Minister of National Defence those questions on the hon. member's behalf.

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4:30 p.m.

Canadian Alliance

Kevin Sorenson Canadian Alliance Crowfoot, AB

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the critic for defence.

We just heard a speech by our Minister of National Defence previous to the hon. member's speech. In that speech, he waxed eloquently about the word war. He talked about not wanting to use the word war. He said that it conjures up fear and that individuals do not want to talk about something that they do not understand. He then went on to talk about the way this war would be waged.

We have heard about the war against poverty, the war against drugs and the war against all the other things that are being tagged as being a war. However he made it very clear that conventional warfare was not the main thing.

In the paper today, General MacKenzie says that we are ill-equipped for war.

I would like to ask the defence critic how our military has gone as far as funding and levels over the past 10 years?

Attack on the United StatesGovernment Orders

4:35 p.m.

Canadian Alliance

Leon Benoit Canadian Alliance Lakeland, AB

Mr. Speaker, that is an excellent question and a question that people are very concerned about. I have already talked about numbers; down from 90,000 to 50,000 in the last 9 years and dropping; funding down 30% in real terms from 9 years ago; equipment mostly in a state of serious disrepair.

General MacKenzie certainly is one individual I respect and I respect what he says on defence issues. However we could go through the list of former top military people and military think tanks and each one of them will say exactly the same thing, which is my concern, that this is widely known to be a problem and it has been pointed out over the last eight years. We have to deal with it now.

Attack on the United StatesGovernment Orders

4:35 p.m.

Canadian Alliance

Paul Forseth Canadian Alliance New Westminster—Coquitlam—Burnaby, BC

Mr. Speaker, I rise today on behalf of my constituents of New Westminster--Coquitlam--Burnaby and all freedom loving people to extend the deepest heart felt condolences to the many Americans, Canadians, British and others who are direct or indirect victims.

I concur with the motion before the House that states:

That this House express its sorrow and horror at the senseless and vicious attack on the United States of America on September 11, 2001;

That it express its heartfelt condolences to the families of the victims and to the American people;

That it reaffirm its commitment to the humane values of a free and democratic society and its determination to bring to justice the perpetrators of this attack on these values and to defend civilization from any future terrorist attacks.

Freedom will always have to be defended from senseless acts of terrorism or in the face of the complacent.

As Canadians watched in horror and tried to understand the incomprehensible, I find it difficult not to think of the possible Canadian connection. Indications may or may not be valid but regardless, the fact that Canadian law and administration continues to allow non-Canadians with terrorist ties to reside in Canada is just not acceptable.

Canadians find it bewildering that CSIS, the RCMP, the Canadian media and even U.S. TV networks have reported for years about the ease in which criminals can gain access to our country due to our insufficient federal institutional protections. Change begins with the recognition that a problem exists.

Canadians want the government to admit that it has a problem so we can get to work. Instead of the Prime Minister saying this week that no improvements are anticipated and the immigration minister claiming that Canada is okay, Canadians want some contrition at this time from the cabinet about its misplaced priorities on security.

Canadians have cause to be angry over the culpability of the Liberal government for the historically poor administration of national security. Problems with Canada's immigration system policies are well known. There is an historical pattern of reports from our loyal public employees about Canada being either a haven for terrorist operations, a place where they raise funds or a place to be used as a gateway to the United States.

It is a matter of longstanding public record that whenever it is an issue of enforcement per se, whether it is ports' police providing higher levels of security training and manpower to customs' border guards, appropriate levels of military personnel or providing people with the resources and technology to airport security, the Liberals have squeezed and starved this whole line of resourcing.

The government needs to admit that all along our party in the House has been correct on these matters over the years and the government has been wrong. My constituents want to know what the minister of immigration's plan of action is beyond just implementing Bill C-11 next year. We need many people at every level to deal with what mainly is at this point a people security problem.

On December 31, 1997, there was a legislative review report published called “Not Just Numbers: A Canadian Framework for Future Immigration” that was presented to the former immigration minister. After much discussion and caving into the advocates in the immigration industry, the Liberals took an agonizing three years, until February 21, 2001, to bring forward the compromise Bill C-11 that was passed in the House of Commons on June 13 and is now in the Senate.

Bill C-11 does appear to partially tighten up procedure but the overall resourcing shortfall of manpower in the immigration ministry today remains a scandal. Consequently, public confidence in the Liberals to manage the nation's affairs or to run a well managed immigration system in all its complexity is far below public expectation.

It is well known that much could be reasonably accomplished if there were the appropriate political will for governance. The Liberals have never had the needed ideological grounding in accountability or in orientation to manage according to the public will.

The current state of affairs with the system is another testimony to that record, that the Liberals are not competent to govern. The world may not be more dangerous now than it was last week but we certainly have proof from Tuesday's events that it is a much more dangerous world than the Liberals have been willing to admit.

The increased international flow of goods, capital and labour makes it easier than ever before for terrorists to create links, set up bases in key locations and raise money in places like Canada for their offences.

It is amazing that people can arrive on Canadian soil and claim refugee status here in Canada, yet roam free for years. Most claimants are just released into our communities to do as they will for lengthy waits for their refugee hearings. Then there are insufficient resources to verify the stories of these surprise arrivals from their claimed countries of origin. Further, even if they are unsuccessful claimants, they can appeal for up to about seven years before the system deports them, most living free in our society to be or not to be law-abiding. Moreover, thousands of claimants just disappear once they are released into our communities as that was their planned method to sneak in.

Given the weakness of our current procedures, we can only say that we are lucky so far that crime has not been worse.

It is time for the government to get real, stop its denials, stop the defence of name calling put downs against the official opposition and just re-allocate personnel resourcing.

Most countries that accept refugees accept about 10% to 15% of claims but we are so inadequate in our background checks that we accept about 50% or even more. It is no surprise then that CSIS says that most of the world's terrorist groups have established themselves in Canada for operations. The Canadian Security Intelligence Service has a mandate to monitor threats to Canada. On June 12, it said:

Terrorism in the years ahead is expected to become more violent, indiscriminate and unpredictable...There will likely be terrorist attacks whose sole aim would be to incite terror itself...Canada a potential venue, for terrorists attacks.

The auditor general gave another wake up call in April 2000 saying:

Visa officers feel they are not only going against their own values, but also making decisions that could carry risks that are too high, and that could entail significant cost for Canadian society.

In response, the government remained complacent and thereby, by definition, perhaps complicit.

Some people coming into Canada found that the way the system is presently designed it allows them to perform their own malevolent goals. Without sufficient incentive to comply with removal orders or reporting conditions, arrivals will continue to stay on and become lost in the system. People smugglers bring their victims with little fear of prosecution.

Sadly, by the turn of events this week, we are reminded again of the need for the systems to act more promptly and with much greater care for the public safety. The courage to act requires a much better allocation of human and financial resources and the best available information systems for protection and enforcement. Without these pragmatics the best speeches by the government today will never be effective or save us from any tragedy.

Dealing with the volume of arrivals and sorting them out, it is a very intensive people business. To more effectively cope with these realities, it is reasonable to do two things. Properly resource the agencies whose practitioners at the line level have been begging for relief. Give the needed trained personnel and also harden the entry points to reduce the swamping of our system.

One of the flaws in Canadian politics is the traditional difficulty in just mentioning immigration, refugees, border controls and so on. The censorship practised by the finger pointers and name callers against my party hurts the whole country. Nevertheless I will not relent but I will say that in our party we firmly believe that the government must give account for the way security programs are met.

September 11, 2001, will be remembered forever. The attack upon the United States changes how we think of the world. Civilization has been attacked and freedom everywhere has been hurt. Our prayers will continue with the victims and their families.

I end my remarks by saying that we in the official opposition of the Canadian parliament offer our Prime Minister assistance to do what we can, for this week's tragedy is of international scope. I have expressed our concern and support to the U.S. embassy and we send our condolences to the American people. I am also mindful that there are Canadians and other nationalities who perished in the attack. While our hearts are broken in this time of grief, I will do my duty to serve to protect what is good and fulfil my part to preserve peace and order.

Technology and the machines of war can neither detect nor eradicate the hatred in the heart of a radical. Anyone willing to commit suicide as a martyr for their evil idea is a potentially more dangerous than the most sophisticated weaponry.

We have looked into the face of evil. It is an idea clothed in pride. It will be overcome by revelation clothed in love. Our only long term hope for peace and an end to fanaticism are changed hearts through faith in the redemptive love of God.

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4:45 p.m.

Liberal

Alex Shepherd Liberal Durham, ON

Mr. Speaker, I listened intently to the member for New Westminster--Coquitlam--Burnaby.

I would like to add the voice of the people of Durham regarding this tragedy. They have told me in no uncertain terms about the great loss of what they feel are some of their freedoms that they have taken for granted over the years, the civil liberties that we have all taken for granted. It has been a great tragedy. We hope to support actions that would eradicate terrorism in the future.

The member went on at length about the immigration policy. I would like to indicate that the landed immigrants who live in my riding are all genuinely hardworking good people. They contribute to their neighbours and neighbourhoods.

One of the things that concerns me as a member of parliament is that I am getting calls from people who are concerned about their own civil liberties because they may be from an ethnic group that is identifiable.

The member went on at length. He talked about and seemed to know that there are identifiable terrorist groups working in Canada. Since he has the protection of the House, could he stand and identify who and where those terrorist groups are?

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4:45 p.m.

Canadian Alliance

Paul Forseth Canadian Alliance New Westminster—Coquitlam—Burnaby, BC

Mr. Speaker, for a moment I thought the member was going to make the mistake to which I was referring about the kind of political correctness and almost censorship of being able to talk about certain topics, just because we mentioned the issue of the pleas from the practitioners within the immigration department for their lack of resources to deliver on their current mandate, let alone any new mandate. Of course we encourage immigration but we want also in that process to make sure that the security needs of the country are met.

If the member wants to know who those groups are, he just has to read one of the many CSIS reports. CSIS has listed over 50 groups in the country.

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4:45 p.m.

NDP

Bill Blaikie NDP Winnipeg—Transcona, MB

Mr. Speaker, I listened to the hon. member. He talked about the way that security services at airports had been run down as a result of privatization. He talked about the shortage of manpower in immigration, et cetera.

It strikes me as ironic. I am not trying to pick a fight. I am asking that he and his colleagues think about the way in which they might have contributed to these kinds of things.

When the airports were being privatized, did they say boo about privatization of airports? There were a lot of people who had those concerns but I think it was something that was a bit of an ideological fad at the time and maybe needs to be reconsidered by the government and by some who either supported it or were silent at the time.

It is the same with the lack of staff at immigration. I remember a time when it was politically popular to say that there were too many civil servants and that the civil service was too big.

If there is a need for people to do something, whether it is in security, immigration or whatever, then let us identify the need and hire the people. Let us not be reticent as a result of whatever philosophical objections we might have about government or the public sector. That is all I have to say.

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4:50 p.m.

Canadian Alliance

Paul Forseth Canadian Alliance New Westminster—Coquitlam—Burnaby, BC

Mr. Speaker, the member must know that the general program of the government to privatize airports has absolutely nothing to do with focussed security for which customs officers have been asking.

I would support the union in that regard when it cannot get a proper response from the ordinary chain of accountability within the ministry. The union has also looked at its concerns about underresourcing and lack of training for customs officers.

I am talking about the needs of the practitioners charged with that responsibility. For years they have given advice and warnings yet the government has been very complacent. That is the issue I bring to the floor of the House today.

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4:50 p.m.

Liberal

Larry Bagnell Liberal Yukon, YT

Mr. Speaker, I will be splitting my time with my colleague from York West.

As most members are aware, when the attack was made on Washington I was standing very near the Capitol building. It was certainly grim to be in the centre of an attack on the symbols of our democracy, our liberty and our freedom. It was not an attack on the U.S.A.; it was an attack on the entire free world because in those buildings were people from many religions, many cultures and over 40 countries.

In Canada the ramifications spread to the farthest riding in the Yukon, which is mine. In Whitehorse a Korean Airlines plane escorted by military jets landed and they were not sure if it was hijacked and there was a lot of commotion and fear. I would like to thank those people of the Yukon who helped ease that situation.

I would also like to thank the Gwich'in people who were in Washington with me, the farthest community from this House, fighting for their survival, ironically as we are now all fighting for our survival. I want to thank all of the people who supported us in Washington and New York. I want to thank the survivors of the people on the last plane who may have diverted it from crashing into the buildings we were in.

I also want to thank and commend the courageous firefighters and police of New York. I also take this opportunity to extend that thanks to firefighters and police in Canada and around the world because they put their lives forward daily for our safety.

When we came back on the bus from Washington I was never so happy to see the Peace Tower standing strong. We should never begrudge our contributions toward our symbols of freedom and liberty. They are so important. However, even if the Parliament Buildings had been levelled, the terrorists would not win because liberty and freedom live in the hearts of Canadians. They will never take that away.

Our motion today has three components.

The first one is sympathy and condolences. I do not think we need to say much more on that. Thousands of Canadians came to this building and signed the condolence book on the weekend, Canadians from the capitals, from Whitehorse, and various communities. I left my office here after midnight for the last three nights and every night there were people at the Eternal Flame in front of this building showing their respect for Americans.

It was an incredible scene at the American embassy, one which I will probably never see again. For the entire block the fence was covered with flowers, condolence messages and teddy bears. I estimated that there was over 15,000 bouquets. That is an incredible sign of support for our American friends.

I was so proud to be a Canadian and to be representing a country with so much compassion when I came out of the Parliament Buildings last Friday and saw on short notice 100,000 Canadians showing their compassion. For those of our American friends who want to know, it is the largest group I have ever seen on Parliament Hill.

The second part of our motion is related to catching the perpetrators. We have just witnessed 5,000 murders. It is inconceivable that we would ever use any less intensity to catch the perpetrators of those 5,000 murders than we use every day to catch the perpetrators of a single murder. Just as they use technology against us, we will use technology in catching them. That is one of the great strengths Canada can add. It is an advanced technological nation.

As one of my constituents wanted me to emphasize, and as has been stated before, our attack against the perpetrators is not an attack against any nation, any religion, any culture. It is only against a few dozen heinous criminals and terrorists.

Human beings, as rational as they are, can be over-affected by emotion. It can cloud their objectivity. Another strength that Canada can offer at this time is to help keep our friends in America on track as we chase the perpetrators so that there is as little threat as possible to innocent people or any other collateral damage.

When we crossed the border on the way back on the bus, it was very moving as people clapped to be back in the safety of Canada. However, the whole world is in fear because when people in the tallest buildings in the world in the most powerful nation in the world with the greatest military strength in the world can be made victims, then we can all be victims.

That is why the third and last part of the motion is the most important and most difficult: making the world safe for civilization.

As in any crime, catching the perpetrator is only the first half of the solution, because any crime is a symptom of conditions that will generate more terrorists and more acts of terrorism. We cannot overly criticize the intelligence systems in Canada and the United States. Obviously we have to make improvements in those systems. However, we live in a free nation and we refuse to give up those freedoms and civil liberties. In a free nation it is technically, physically and economically impossible to surround with military troops every vehicle, every building and every person. Our war has to be on the breeding grounds of terrorism so we remove the reasons that are so powerful that people would give up their lives to wreak this havoc and horror on other adults.

Do we enter this war on terrorism when it is said that Canada loves peace? That peace has been shattered by this act of carnage. What about the notes from the children at the American embassy that are fearful but want peace? That peace has been broken. I believe it is our responsibility to fight to get that peace back for those children and for their children.

What other option do we have? What if we do not engage the enemy? Do we just assume that the terrorists who have killed hundreds of Canadians on Canadian soil and on Canadian property over the last 30 years will just go away? I did not see a note after this event saying that they would not do this any more.

The knives, the weapons of terrorists for centuries gone by, have been replaced by the weapons of mass destruction by modern terrorists. It will not get any better. Those weapons will get more horrendous. As Winston Churchill said, “We do not have a week, we do not have a day, we do not have an hour to waste in engaging in a war on terrorism and the root causes of terrorism”.

This will be a difficult and courageous decision for Canadians, because courage has a cost. In retaliation it could be the cost of Canadian blood at home and abroad. It is an excruciating decision for Canadians, because they are making it not only for themselves but for their children. Five thousand people died this time. How many people will die next time if we do nothing?

If anyone in the House is weakening in their resolve to engage in the battle against terrorism, I just want to imagine them going home to their riding tonight, sitting down to a dinner and thinking of thousands of other people with dining tables in their communities that are missing a person.

America, we are with you, because this was the slaughter of innocent secretaries and office workers, mothers and fathers, sons and daughters whose only crime was to choose to live and work in a free country, a country that loves freedom, democracy and liberty as much as we do.

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5 p.m.

Canadian Alliance

Betty Hinton Canadian Alliance Kamloops, Thompson And Highland Valleys, BC

Mr. Speaker, I would like to add the condolences of my constituency of Kamloops, Thompson and Highland Valleys to all the people who have suffered so much in the last week.

I have listened carefully to the discussions today and have been able to agree with a lot of points that were made. There are also points that I do not agree with.

I have lost both parents, a sister and a child, so tragedy is no stranger to me. However what I have found happening in the last week is something that gives me courage. The worst of circumstances often bring out the best in people. We have seen evidence of that all across the country. That is heartening.

What I find disturbing in the House today is the confusion that seems to surround what is going on here. I have heard colleagues from the Bloc, the NDP and the government say that children being hungry is part of the problem.

The catalyst for hunger is war and the struggle for power, not the other way around. There are fanatical groups in the world who have taken it upon themselves to do whatever is necessary to bring their point of view across. As a result we have hungry people, but let us not confuse hungry people with the cause of their hunger. The cause of hunger is power and war, and that is what we must stop. We must do something about it in the House today.

We know that there are 50 terrorist groups operating in Canada. That is not finger pointing; that is fact. To take control over what happens in our nation and to our friends in other nations, we must put controls on that. I am hoping that as a House we will work together to make the necessary changes.

My colleague is the only member of the Muslim faith in the House. He has called for what I would call for: tolerance and respect for other people's religions. This has nothing to do with the Muslim religion; it has everything to do with the fanatical fringe. We must bear that in mind as we make these deliberations. We must make the changes that are needed to restore the sense of security of ourselves and of our nation. We need to defend what is dear to us. It is my supreme hope that we are able to do that as a team in the House.

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5 p.m.

Canadian Alliance

Jay Hill Canadian Alliance Prince George—Peace River, BC

Mr. Speaker, I commend my hon. colleague from Yukon for his remarks today. In representing the people of Prince George--Peace River I know from countless conversations and correspondence, either electronically or by mail, that they are expressing deep sorrow and concern about the tragedy that took place in the United States. I would like to add these words on their behalf.

I too had occasion on the weekend to pass by and place a small bouquet of flowers at the fence of the U.S. embassy in Ottawa on behalf of my constituents. Like the hon. member for Yukon I was moved and touched by the inscriptions on the cards and notes that were placed there. As my colleague from Yukon said, I think it would be extremely difficult if not impossible for someone to read them and not be tremendously moved by the compassion, sympathy and support that Canadians are expressing.

Real urgency and the deepest concern about the situation is being expressed from coast to coast to coast in Canada . I talked to my 18 year old son by telephone a couple of nights ago. Like so many young people he expressed real concern about being on the verge of war and what it might mean for him.

It is one thing for people at my age to discuss it. It is a whole different dynamic for the young people who would be called upon to fight the war and potentially make the ultimate sacrifice for our country.

Given the gravity of the situation, would my colleague support the notion that we get the standing committees for defence, foreign affairs and justice up and running as quickly as possible with the reconvening of parliament? Would he support that initiative so the committees can look at ways to address the issue as quickly as possible?

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5:05 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

I remind members not to take too much time. As my colleague stated in an earlier intervention, many members want to speak to this very important subject matter at this time.

The member for Yukon will not have time to respond because I want to try to hold ourselves to the schedule and accommodate as many members as possible.

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5:05 p.m.

Liberal

Judy Sgro Liberal York West, ON

Mr. Speaker, I will try to keep my comments short to allow others an opportunity to speak as well.

This is a sad time for everyone everywhere, not just in the U.S. and Canada. The whole world is crying over the terrible terrorist attack that happened last week. Our hearts go out to the United States, to our American friends and neighbours. I am sure all of us have friends living somewhere in the United States and are worried about what is coming today or tomorrow.

Our hearts go out especially to those who lost their lives and the loved ones they left behind. The TV coverage that was so extensive over the last week showed many sad people in tears, people who had lost their children or firefighters and policemen who had lost their colleagues. The images were so explicit that no matter how tough some people might like to think they are, I do not think there was anyone in our country or in the world who did not shed a tear while watching them.

Death and destruction are never pleasant, but what happened last Tuesday was extraordinarily disgusting. Wanton killing, the murder of innocent people, destruction of property and terrorism have no place in the civilized society we all cherish in our country.

What took place in America's airways in New York City, Washington and western Pennsylvania was inexcusable. Those who planned, perpetrated and carried out the acts must be found and punished. Those who harbour them, give them comfort and offer them assistance are equally guilty and must be punished as well. God willing, they will be.

This is our resolve. Canada is a democracy. It is a constitutional, fair and free society. It opens its doors to offer hope and opportunity to everyone. However our values and hospitality must not be abused, and they have been. As a result Canada, along with the United States and free people everywhere, has been cast into a worldwide struggle against the forces of darkness. It is a battle from which there is no turning. There can be no alternative but absolute victory.

Let us therefore renew our commitment to respect others, our commitment to peace, order and the rule of law. Anything less diminishes all of us.

We also have work to do here at home. We must tighten the rules of entry into our country. We must ensure that our borders, so accessible for so long, serve as a barrier too.

Bill C-11, our new immigration bill, would do much of that. It was started long before the acts of terrorism last week. Changes are in the making but they need to happen sooner rather than later. We must screen out those who wish us ill and who use Canada as a staging ground for terrorism. We must be more focused on identifying illegitimate entrants. We must find a way to speed up the process of ridding our country of those who we have determined have no right to be here.

Bill C-11 would do exactly that. It would allow people to come here who legitimately apply and who have a right to come to our country. It would make sure that those who have no right to be here are removed much faster. We must deny charity status to groups that fund terrorism. We need anti-terrorism legislation and we will all be working in the committee to ensure it happens sooner rather than later.

We must make it a special priority to work together with our great neighbour and dearest friend, the United States of America, to counter this scourge. We must be certain the Americans can absolutely depend upon us not to be a conduit for terrorists or for any individual or group bent on illegal or criminal activity.

At this time of reflection and making of resolutions we must also be alert to, and act forcefully against, unfair treatment of those whom people consider different. The openness of our society has brought the widest diversity imaginable to our population. We celebrate that diversity because it reflects our true values.

I am fortunate in York West to represent a riding that comprises about 120 different cultural groups. All of them live together in peace and harmony in my riding and in our city. As I stand here and speak about what is coming tomorrow, they are all worried. As worried as they are about what is coming from outside, they are worried about what will come from inside. I urge all members to think deeply about the people in our country who are Canadians and who want to live in peace and hope. We must all ensure that it happens and that we live that way together.

The opportunity given to all of us who share in the bounty of this land, who were fortunate enough to be born here or immigrate here, must be that we work together to ensure that discrimination is eliminated and equality prevails. There could be no better monument to this terrible tragedy than to ensure that justice, decency and fairness to all are the hallmarks of the Canadian people and our way of life. We must fight for that as energetically as we battle the forces of darkness.

When I was entering the House a little while ago a group of people outside with placards and signs was playing music, singing and asking us to make sure that peace reigns in our countries. We must not underestimate our immense responsibility here today and in the upcoming decisions that will be made. It is imperative that we represent the views of all our citizens and ensure that safety is the number one priority. We must protect our citizens and not make snap decisions. We must use all possible influence to ensure that justice is done, but it is not done by killing millions of people.

The people in my riding of York West are worried, including my family. My husband Sam, my daughter Cathy and her husband Graziano, my other children Deanna, Lou, Sam Junior and Claudia and my four wee grandchildren are all worried. Yesterday when I said I was flying to Ottawa my grandchildren asked why I could not drive. I said I was tired and that it would be easier to take a plane. They were worried. They wanted their nona to come back.

For those of us who were born here, who have never experienced war and who have children or grandchildren, when we banter this word around it is very frightening. We must be careful about the decisions we make. We must do what is right and in the interest of society and all the people.

When we pick up a newspaper such as today's Toronto Star , the second paragraph on the front page reads:

New terrorist attacks could target “every subway, every port, every ship, every crossroad, every large gathering of human beings,” U.S. Secretary of Defence Donald Rumsfeld said.

People who have lived in a safe country all their lives are now living in fear. It is an awful feeling for many people. It makes us all stand back and think about whether we are at peace with ourselves. Have we made sure to thank our families and friends and tell them we love them? The people who got on those planes or went to work in the World Trade Center thought they were on business or vacation. They did not expect to never have the chance to call their families and say they loved them.

One thing we should all be trying to do as members of parliament is make sure we are leading our communities in being at peace with ourselves, with God and with each other. I look forward to working with all my colleagues as members of parliament on behalf of our country.

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5:15 p.m.

Progressive Conservative

Elsie Wayne Progressive Conservative Saint John, NB

Mr. Speaker, yesterday in my riding of Saint John, New Brunswick, there was a special ecumenical prayer service at our Roman Catholic diocese. The first person to speak was a gentleman representing the Muslim community. The second speaker was a very dear friend of mine from our Jewish community. The third was a Baptist minister and the fourth was Roman Catholic Bishop Faber MacDonald.

We were at the cathedral with two-thirds of our firemen in their uniforms, along with members of our police department. When the gentleman representing the Muslims got up to speak, it tugged at my heart and I cried. I cried because he said, like all of us here today, that somehow we have to find peace. He said that the majority of the people in his community is not in favour of terrorist attacks. This is not what they want. He asked if we could all work together to bring peace around the world.

As my hon. colleague has said, we in the House of Commons must all work together for this is truly the most serious situation since the second world war. On behalf of all the citizens of Saint John our deepest sympathies and prayers go out to all those families and to those who lost their lives in New York City.

I was in Washington just one week prior to when the attack took place. I have two brothers who have families, children and grandchildren, who live in the United States. I have been in touch with them. My oldest brother asked me to make sure that Canada and the U.S.A. work together to bring peace so that this never happens again either in Canada or in the U.S. We must work together.

This is not a political statement, but I will say that I hope and trust that the government will be able to provide more money for our military, the RCMP and CSIS. We are all here to do what is right for our people.

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5:15 p.m.

Liberal

Judy Sgro Liberal York West, ON

Mr. Speaker, I think it would be appropriate to leave the last word to my colleague as a token of how we will work together on behalf of all people in Canada.

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5:15 p.m.

Canadian Alliance

Brian Fitzpatrick Canadian Alliance Prince Albert, SK

Mr. Speaker, I believe that this is a time when people in the world will have to take a stand. It is not a time for riding the fence. There will be a lot of bleeding hearts around. All I can say is let them bleed because it is more important to provide public security and safety than to worry about a few weak knees.

I am sure my colleagues on the other side of the House know where that paraphrase came from. It came in the midst of the FLQ crisis. However, with all due respect, the events that happened last Tuesday are far more immense and serious than the FLQ crisis.

The question I have for my colleague from York West is whether the government has the willpower, the resolve and the backbone to deal with this extraordinary event and to take the action that is necessary in much the same way as the prime minister did some 31 years ago. I would be interested in hearing her response to that question.

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5:20 p.m.

Liberal

Judy Sgro Liberal York West, ON

Mr. Speaker, I talked about justice. What Canadians want is to see justice done. To have another injustice will not help the situation.