Oh yes, she has all the answers. I will just say that there are some people in our society for whom post-secondary education has never been part of their values. I come from that background and I know something about it.
For these people it is very important to build a culture in which aspiring to an education for their children becomes a family goal. Do you think that when I was little we talked about cousin Fred who defended his master's thesis so well? That was not what we talked about around our kitchen table. It did not exist in our family values. I am not the only one. There are a lot of us.
What do I want? I want the group in our society for whom these values did not previously exist to adopt this as their own goal from now on. There is nothing wrong about that. I know that the hon. member says that better things could be done with the money. There are always better things one can do; that is true.
Last week I met a group of students who came to do some lobbying in my office. They told me that the same money could be given to those who wanted to register for next year and it would help them right away. Perhaps. Perhaps that should be done as well.
Nevertheless, meanwhile, we must not say that certain groups of people who have never aspired to pursuing a post-secondary education do not have the right to adopt this as a family goal, just like anyone else.
At some point, retirement savings plans were introduced. Of course, at the time, some thought that only rich people would set money aside. That is not true. I know many people who worked all their lives, including janitors, and who were able to save a bit of money to ensure a better retirement.
What the minister is proposing today is the same thing, namely to set a little money aside to ensure a better future for our children. We must create a situation where, from now on, people sitting down at the dinner table will talk about the $25 or the $50 that they saved during the month, or that they invested at some other time, so that this becomes part of the family values. Is it too much to ask on our part?
To try to empty the bill of its substance, as the hon. member is proposing, is bad. I am saying it now and I already said it at second reading. At least, where I come from it is bad and I think that others who come from the same background should also be entitled to the same thing.
As some hon. members know, I got my university degree while sitting as a member of this House. It took me 11 years, on a part-time basis. At times, it was hard, particularly during the last four years, when I was a minister. I am the only minister in the history of Canada to have pursued a university education while serving as a cabinet member.
What motivated me to get my degree was that my two children were also attending university. What message would it have sent to them if their father, who was attending university at the same time as they were, had dropped out? It was impossible to do that. This is one of the things that motivated me and kept me going during those times when I had to get up at 3:30 a.m. or 4 a.m. to complete my courses. This is the example that we set for the next generation.
It is true that, at the time, I had the means to help my children and so on. However, I still needed the same courage to set an example. This takes a different form at a different socio-economic level. It becomes a family objective, no matter how modest, so as to instill those values.
I think our children and grandchildren are entitled to this. Be that as it may, I personally will support the minister's position. I am asking everyone to reject this amendment, and I am even asking the hon. member to withdraw it.