House of Commons Hansard #39 of the 37th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was agreement.

Topics

Government Response to PetitionsRoutine Proceedings

10 a.m.

Sarnia—Lambton Ontario

Liberal

Roger Gallaway LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons

Mr. Speaker, pursuant to Standing Order 36(8) I have the honour to table, in both official languages, the government's response to two petitions.

Committees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

10:05 a.m.

Liberal

Peter Adams Liberal Peterborough, ON

Mr. Speaker, I have the honour to present the 19th report of the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs regarding matters relating to security on Parliament Hill. An identical report will be tabled in the Senate later today.

Questions on the Order PaperRoutine Proceedings

10:05 a.m.

Sarnia—Lambton Ontario

Liberal

Roger Gallaway LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons

Mr. Speaker, I ask that all questions be allowed to stand.

Questions on the Order PaperRoutine Proceedings

10:05 a.m.

The Speaker

Is that agreed?

Questions on the Order PaperRoutine Proceedings

10:05 a.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

Westbank First Nation Self-Government ActGovernment Orders

10:05 a.m.

Fredericton New Brunswick

Liberal

Andy Scott Liberalfor the Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development

moved that Bill C-11, an act to give effect to the Westbank First Nation Self-Government Agreement, be read the third time and passed.

Westbank First Nation Self-Government ActGovernment Orders

10:05 a.m.

Yukon Yukon

Liberal

Larry Bagnell LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development

Mr. Speaker, I will get organized here. With our security system, people cannot be ready to come in right away to listen. As they are coming in I will organize my notes.

While I am waiting, I would like to congratulate members of the House and members of the opposition for their support yesterday in moving this bill forward. Members from all sides of the House showed a great deal of cooperation to move support.

Westbank First Nation Self-Government ActGovernment Orders

10:10 a.m.

Liberal

Peter Adams Liberal Peterborough, ON

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order.

I do not want to be critical, but I did stand up when you called for petitions and because of the angle of vision, my guess is that you missed me. I would ask for unanimous consent to return to the presentation of petitions.

Westbank First Nation Self-Government ActGovernment Orders

10:10 a.m.

The Speaker

Is there unanimous consent to return to petitions?

Westbank First Nation Self-Government ActGovernment Orders

10:10 a.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

PetitionsRoutine Proceedings

10:10 a.m.

Liberal

Peter Adams Liberal Peterborough, ON

Mr. Speaker, I have two petitions. First, I am pleased to present another petition on behalf of all of those in Canada who suffer from kidney disease.

I have, in the past, presented petitions in support of research for the bio-artificial kidney. I am delighted that research is resulting in the use of living kidney cells to duplicate nearly all the functions of a healthy kidney. This is still at the experimental stage, but my petitioners are very pleased about it.

In this case, the petitioners point out that kidney disease is a huge and growing problem in Canada. Real progress is being made in various ways of preventing and coping with kidney disease. The petitioners call upon Parliament to encourage the Canadian Institutes of Health Research to explicitly include kidney research as one of the institutes in its system to be named the institute of kidney and urinary tract diseases.

PetitionsRoutine Proceedings

10:10 a.m.

Liberal

Peter Adams Liberal Peterborough, ON

Mr. Speaker, my second petition is on behalf of citizens of the Peterborough area who are concerned about the condition of Mahmoud Jaballah, who was detained in solitary confinement in 1999 and not advised of the charges against him.

The petitioners point out that Mr. Jaballah was exonerated by a judge on the grounds of his excellent character references. He was redetained in 2001.

The petitioners point out that if Mr. Jaballah is returned to Egypt, which he fled as a refugee, he will be in danger of torture and execution, and his wife and six children will be left in Canada alone. They call upon Parliament to release Mr.Jaballah according to the court decision or to give him his right to a fair trial with full disclosure of all the so-called evidence against him.

PetitionsRoutine Proceedings

10:10 a.m.

Canadian Alliance

Jason Kenney Canadian Alliance Calgary Southeast, AB

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point order to seek unanimous consent of the House to move that this House, recognizing his great efforts to preserve the cultural and historical heritage of the Tibetan people using peaceful methods, agree that His Holiness, the 14th Dalai Lama, Tenzin Gyatso, and Nobel peace prize winner, be declared an honorary citizen of Canada.

I believe that the House leaders and representatives of all the parties have been given notice of this motion.

PetitionsRoutine Proceedings

10:10 a.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Bélair)

Is there unanimous consent to table the motion?

PetitionsRoutine Proceedings

10:10 a.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

PetitionsRoutine Proceedings

10:10 a.m.

Some hon. members

No.

The House resumed consideration of the motion that Bill C-11, an act to give effect to the Westbank First Nation Self-Government Agreement, be read the third time and passed.

Westbank First Nation Self-Government ActGovernment Orders

10:10 a.m.

Yukon Yukon

Liberal

Larry Bagnell LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development

Mr. Speaker, first, I would like to pay tribute to the members of the Westbank first nation who have been in Ottawa for some time.

It was a lengthy process and I applaud their determination, enthusiasm and efforts to move forward on this agreement that will be so helpful in moving the community ahead. It is already very successful, but moving it even further ahead it will be a model in some way for many other communities.

I wish to congratulate a number of people. They are: Chief Robert Louie; Councillors Rafael DeGuevara, Michael Westuik and Larry Derrickson; Dr. Tim Raybould, one of the self-government negotiators; Deana Hamilton, former councillor; and Micha Menczer and Brenda MacGregor.

To the elders I would say:

[Editor's Note: Member spoke in Okanagan]

(English)

I also want to congratulate the opposition parties. I think there is a good will throughout the House to help this first nation move forward with this self-government agreement and improve the lot of the people. That was demonstrated last night.

I hope we can have the same type of success in cooperation as we did with the Tlicho agreement, which of course is completely different but has some very creative items in it. We would be happy to give briefings to opposition members because these are complex and difficult. They may have a lot of questions for those who are not on the committee. Of course, we will deal a lot with those Tlicho items at committee.

For those who are not on the committee, we would be happy to give briefings and answer questions on some very exciting and unique aspects of that agreement.

I want to congratulate the minister, the hon. Andy Mitchell, who kept pushing to ensure this was on the agenda--

Westbank First Nation Self-Government ActGovernment Orders

10:15 a.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Bélair)

Order, please. The parliamentary secretary just referred to the Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development by his name, which he knows is not allowable in the House, so I would ask him to be careful, please.

Westbank First Nation Self-Government ActGovernment Orders

10:15 a.m.

Liberal

Larry Bagnell Liberal Yukon, YT

Mr. Speaker, I am kind of new at this so I appreciate the correction.

I also want to congratulate the minister's staff and members of the department who have worked so hard on this for many years. I am sure there will be some opposition views and I look forward to hearing them. With anything this complex, which would have such a wide effect, certain views will have to be put on the record from various constituencies, and that is only appropriate.

What I hope to do today is provide some clarification to concerns and to things that may not have been understood. When all sorts of lawyers and people from various orders of government work an agreement for years and years concerns do come up during those times and we try to accommodate them. I think there will be some good responses to some concerns with information of which people may not have been aware.

I enthusiastically support Bill C-11 today and urge the House to adopt the legislation. I would like to thank the members of the House Standing Committee on Aboriginal Affairs, Northern Development and Natural Resources for moving swiftly to approve Bill C-11. With only three technical amendments, the committee clearly recognizes the significance of effective aboriginal self-government and markedly demonstrates its genuine commitment to achieve this worthy goal.

The collaboration exhibited by committee members echoed that displayed by the Government of Canada and the Westbank First Nation during discussions and negotiations that led to the Westbank First Nation self-government agreement. Close collaboration with aboriginal Canadians and first nations leaders is something I am committed to as Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development.

I believe that only through genuine partnership between the federal government and first nations can aboriginal communities achieve effective self-government. Only through open, transparent and accountable governments can first nations build strong, robust economies and healthy, enduring societies. By giving effect to the Westbank First Nation self-government agreement, Bill C-11 is a crucial step forward for the Westbank first nation in pursuance of these aspirations.

The Westbank First Nation has already demonstrated that it knows how to manage its affairs responsibly. This is, after all, an exceptionally progressive and successful aboriginal community. The first nation runs its own provincially licensed day care and early education centre, along with an intermediate care facility for the elderly. It operates its own school and community centre and maintains several recreation facilities, such as beaches, campgrounds and baseball diamonds.

The Westbank First Nation is blessed with spectacular natural beauty. Located on the shores of Lake Okanagan, adjacent to the city of Kelowna, the first nation is ideally situated to benefit from the region's booming economy, and Westbank has made most of these advantages.

The first nation and its members have opened land to development, making it a busy land manager. Today's Westbank commercial district features a number of shopping centres that generate substantial rental income and provide job opportunities for band members. Westbank has established a reputation as a fair landlord, a trustworthy partner and a reliable neighbour. When the Okanagan was ravaged by fires last summer, Westbank provided room and board for firefighters.

I want to do something I have never done before and just repeat a couple of the things I have just said related to the day care, the early education centre, the facility for the elderly, its own school and the recreation facilities. I want to repeat some of the commercial things because to me this is so exciting.

We have heard over the last week, through the aboriginal summit, where the rationale was to reduce the tragic disparity. We have seen the tragic situations across Canada and first nations but sometimes we do not hear these good news stories. This is what it can be. I think every member of Parliament, every member of the parliamentary staff and every member of the department are all here to help people advance in their lives. When we see something like this, it shows us what it is all about. Who could be against that?

When a first nation has a commercial district with a number of shopping centres, it generates substantial rental income for the first nation and it provides job opportunities for the band members. It has established a reputation as a fair landlord, a trustworthy partner and a reliable neighbour. As I said, when the Okanagan was ravaged by fires last summer, Westbank provided room and board for the firefighters.

If those are the types of successes we can have with first nations leadership, all first nations peoples, aboriginal people, Inuit people and the Metis people, can have these types of successes and take their equal place among Canadian communities.

What was perhaps most exciting about the first nation's success is that much of it was accomplished under the limitations of the Indian Act. Now the Westbank First Nation wants to establish a new relationship with the people of Canada, a more equitable relationship that will enable Westbank to realize its full potential.

The self-government agreement gives the Westbank First Nation the tools it needs to continue to develop its community. It will enable Westbank First Nation to create government structures that are both effective and representative. The self-government agreement will foster more economic growth in the community by providing the basis for a stable government and institutions, an essential condition for attracting and retaining investors and business partners.

Close scrutiny of the self-government agreement reveals how it will foster accountability and self-reliance for the Westbank First Nation.

Under the terms of this agreement, key decisions will be made by people most familiar with and most affected by local issues. I am convinced that this will lead to substantive improvements in the economic and social well-being of the Westbank First Nation members.

Westbank leaders believe that these improvements are best accomplished by the Westbank people governing themselves, with a representative and an effective government capable of exercising law-making authority and assuming new responsibility, and so do I.

The bill now before the House would help to establish precisely this type of government. The Westbank First Nation would become self-governing, assuming jurisdiction over and responsibility for its own affairs.

Under the self-governing agreement the first nation will have a range of powers. The Westbank First Nation will have the authority to enact laws in areas such as land and resources management, aboriginal language and culture, among others. It is in these areas that a key feature of the agreement lies. With these new powers the Westbank First Nation will assume control of its resources.

The self-government agreement sets forth the requirements for the establishment and content of a Westbank constitution which is ratified by the first nation at the same time and in the same manner as the self-government agreement. As with the years that were spent on consultations on the agreement, the same was done with the constitution.

The Westbank constitution is crucial because it enshrines the community's government structures and processes, from electing officials to establishing financial accountability standards, to procedures for creating laws. It also sets out the community's governing principles and guiding philosophy.

The constitution the Westbank worked diligently to create is especially significant because it was developed by the members of the community. The constitution reflects the wishes of the Westbank people, not the views of consultants and lawyers. The constitution is also a product of the first nation's consultative approach. A group of dedicated community volunteers worked tirelessly day after day and night after night for nearly a year to draft this law.

Community meetings were held to put forward ideas, discuss issues and work through Parliament. When a consensus was finally reached and the constitution was drafted, copies were distributed to all and once again people were invited to comment. Following the final round of consultations, members of the Westbank First Nation ratified and adopted the constitution.

This consensus building strengthened the constitution and will improve governance. People are more likely to respect laws and participate in governing structures that they helped to create.

Through this constitution-making process, Westbank has shown that difficult issues can be overcome through consultation and genuine understanding. It has demonstrated that an agreement can be tailored to fit local circumstances and that the rights and interests of everyone involved can be respected.

To better foster relations with non-residents of Westbank lands, the Westbank First Nation will create a mechanism to ensure that non-member residents will have input into laws that will affect them directly.

I want to speak about this very innovative section of the legislation which is not necessarily in other agreements across the country.

Westbank has over 7,000 residents who are not members of the first nation. Its members only number in the hundreds. It is a very unique situation and a wonderful partnership. This provision would give those people, through a mandatory law formation, a say into what goes on in the area. There is an advisory council right now but if the agreement is signed people will have even more say into what is going on in the area. If the bill becomes law it cannot be changed without their consent. It is not that they have any major problems, but this is an exciting mechanism that will allow people who are not first nation members to have a lot more input than they would normally have. However they would not have stayed on their land if they had not been happy with the professional way their taxes were being handled and their land was being managed by the Westbank leaders. The opposition critic has put this very eloquently in an article.

The legislation marks a significant improvement over the Indian Act, which has no such requirement. In short, Westbank will establish and maintain an effective and accountable government within the constitutional framework of Canada.

The government will respect Canadian law and recognize that all members on Westbank land, like Canadians everywhere, are subject to the Criminal Code and the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

For the information of those who may not be aware of how these agreements work, the Criminal Code of Canada does apply to everyone throughout Canada. The Charter of Rights and Freedoms has and will continue to apply fully on the reserve with the same sensitivity to first nations that is guaranteed to all Canadians in the Constitution. The same applies with regard to human rights. This is something people wanted and it will continue. There were some concerns about one of the amendments but it was made quite clear that the Charter of Rights and Freedoms will continue to apply fully as it always has.

I am convinced that enacting the self-government agreement will benefit not only members and non-members of the first nation residing on Westbank land but also the people of Canada overall. Strong, self-reliant first nations have much to contribute to Canada economically, socially and culturally.

The people of Westbank are clearly ready to fulfil their obligations. They have been working toward this agreement for more than a decade. They have staged 400 information and consultation sessions. They have secured the support of municipal and regional governments, chambers of commerce, labour unions and a broad range of special interest groups. Enacting the Westbank agreement will certainly have a positive impact outside the province.

Although it is the third self-government agreement in British Columbia and the seventeenth in Canada, it is the first stand alone self-government agreement under Canada's inherent right's policy. This is an important milestone.

This agreement demonstrates that the Government of Canada can work with first nations to arrive at agreements tailored to the specific needs of a community. This agreement was signed on behalf of the people of Canada and the Government of Canada will do its utmost to make sure that the decade's worth of hard work was not done in vain.

I want to talk for a minute about another concern that was raised in committee at report stage, and that was the issue of adding to reserves and municipal involvement in that, although I think it has been clarified in those stages.

Adding land to reserves is an authority of the Government of Canada. It happens from time to time when there are obvious needs. As first nations grow and as their needs change, reserves have to be adjusted to effectively provide the land, the services and the needs for that first nation.

This is an authority of the federal government that is exercised across Canada, and will continue to be exercised with or without this agreement. Therefore, the agreement has no effect on this authority. The concern in that respect is not relevant. It cannot be changed for one particular community. We cannot tell one municipality in that it cannot collect property taxes while all others have that power and we cannot change the criminal law in one community, such as grand theft. It is a law across Canada.

This is a national policy where the federal government adds land to reserves. However, the policy states that the government will consult with first nations, provincial or territorial governments and the affected municipality. In fact there has been an addition to this reserve, but it has taken a long time because of the consultation with the municipality. Municipalities are protected under the policy. If there are any additions to reserves, it is done in a very cooperative and consultative manner.

In urban reserves, which we talked about earlier this month, there are agreements on services and all kinds of cooperative agreements before those things are put into place.

We have been entrusted with the aspirations of this wonderful first nation, and I ask the House for its full support in providing the tools needed to build its community and to build on the vision on the Westbank first nation.

There has been an exciting mood in town this week, starting with the aboriginal summit where some very historic partnerships have been made. We have dealt with aboriginal issues and bills every day this week in the House. There was great cooperation last night among all members of the House. This builds great momentum as everyone here wants to help first nation people move forward.

It is with great pride and excitement today that I introduce Bill C-11 for third reading and enthusiastically ask everyone in the House to support it.

Westbank First Nation Self-Government ActThe Royal Assent

10:30 a.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Bélair)

Order, please. I have the honour to inform the House that a communication has been received as follows:

Rideau Hall

Ottawa

April 22, 2004

Mr. Speaker:

I have the honour to inform you that the Right Honourable Hon. Adrienne Clarkson, Governor General of Canada, signified royal assent by written declaration to the bills listed in the Schedule to this letter on the 22nd day of April, 2004, at 9:52 a.m.

Yours sincerely,

Barbara Uteck

Secretary to the Governor General

The schedule indicates the that royal assent was given to Bill C-8, an act to establish the Library and Archives of Canada, to amend the Copyright Act and to amend certain acts in consequence; and Bill C-14, an act to amend the Criminal Code and other acts.

The House resumed consideration of the motion that Bill C-11, an act to give effect to the Westbank First Nation Self-Government Agreement, be read the third time and passed.

Westbank First Nation Self-Government ActGovernment Orders

10:35 a.m.

Canadian Alliance

John Duncan Canadian Alliance Vancouver Island North, BC

Mr. Speaker, it gives me pleasure to speak to Bill C-11 at third reading.

I will paint a little picture for members. The Westbank First Nation is adjacent to the city of Kelowna in the Okanagan Valley of British Columbia. As a band, it has rightfully gained a reputation as one of the most progressive bands in the country. There is some opposition to the self-government agreement. However, that opposition flies in the face of the evidence.

There are 7,500 non-band members, and one-quarter of all non-band member residents in Canada who live on reserve live on the Westbank reserve. These residents, as well as 200 businesses, have chosen to locate on Westbank land because they view the Westbank First Nation government as being competent, predictable and stable and, therefore, is a very secure place to invest.

The Westbank First Nation has been collecting property tax since 1990, and non-band members have full access to the financial reporting of these property tax accounts. Westbank has implemented a system of independent property assessment and assessment appeal mechanisms similar to off reserve municipalities. The B.C. assessment authority has been contracted to carry out these functions and this has made it very easy to translate for the real estate industry. Therefore, it has a very simple process. It can recommend Westbank investments, and it does.

The implementation of this taxation policy 14 years ago, under the provision of section 83 of the Indian Act and the subsequent opting into the First Nations Land Management Act, was instrumental in the rapid growth of non-band members residing on Westbank land. None of this property tax regime under section 83 of the Indian Act will change as a consequence of this agreement. The self-governance will actually improve the ability of individuals to manage these transactions under that self-governance because it will not require the extra step and impediment of the Department of Indian Affairs.

Elsewhere in British Columbia we have a shining example. The Sechelt Indian band achieved self-government and taxing power in the 1980s. Virtually, without exception, it is held up as a successful model for self-government and economic development. The Sechelt and Westbank agreements share a provision that non-native residents are represented by an advisory group to chief and council.

Critics of the agreement also like to point to the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, claiming that the Westbank agreement will change this application as it applies to the Westbank government and residents.

We have had some debate in the House on this and it is the full intent of this agreement that the charter apply. It is my very strong opinion and the opinion of many in the legal profession that any difficulties there might be in that area are due to the Canadian Constitution and the charter, certainly not due to a piece of legislation such as Westbank. We all know that our charter and our Constitution are supreme, so I need say no more.

The net effect for non-band members living on Westbank lands is that the application of the charter is the same whether the Westbank First Nation is operating under the provisions of the Indian Act, as it is now, or operating after this agreement receives royal assent.

The Westbank band is on course to be responsible for its own governance and its own future. The bill creates a government which is a legal entity that can sue or be sued. In contrast, Indian Act chiefs and councils are protected from legal liability. To me, it is quite surprising that the democratic and financial accountability provisions and the private property provisions so central to the Westbank agreement have virtually been ignored by the critics of the bill.

Critics also complain that Westbank laws may prevail over federal and provincial laws. In reality, current chief and council bylaws across Canada prevail over provincial legislation as a consequence of section 88 of the Indian Act. The Westbank agreement adopts the same provision. Westbank laws prevail over federal laws only in some specific areas.

We have to recognize also that because these are federal lands there is a vacuum in some areas that are normally under provincial jurisdiction, such as landlord tenancy and some other areas. The Westbank band, either prior to now or as a consequence of this agreement, has taken care of those vacuums in the law, and this has added to the certainty and security for investors.

I find it very interesting that the Westbank band has done very enlightened things because of a vacuum in the law, yet it has been criticized for occupying that vacuum. However, the real reasons were never associated with the criticism. I thought I would point that out.

One example that people should be aware of deals with the area of intoxicants. Westbank may create a dry reserve. It has priority over federal law in relation to Okanagan language and culture, K to 12 education, the practice of traditional Okanagan medicine and Westbank law enforcement procedures, as long as they are comparable but not greater than those set out in federal or provincial legislation on similar subject matters. Business licensing, traffic and transportation, public works and wills and estates of Westbank members are all areas that are largely without criticism.

Once again, it seems to be the principle that is attacked but the specifics are not attacked. I think once we look at the specifics, that these are actually areas that are non-controversial.

In addition, the Westbank First Nation has jurisdiction over the renewable resources on Westbank lands, excluding fish and fish habitat. Jurisdiction is also extended to non-renewable resources such as minerals and gravel. The Westbank band can manage resources on Westbank lands as if it is a private property owner, although ownership resides with Canada. There is some difference between the Westbank and Sechelt. In the case of the Sechelt band, its lands were transferred in fee simple title. They are no longer federal lands.

The adjacent city of Kelowna, British Columbia's third largest city and according to many of the residents, British Columbia's most important city, and the regional district that encompasses Westbank First Nation have endorsed the agreement.

The Westbank agreement should be looked at in its entirety. It should be supported and encouraged as the model for other bands.

I have had some significant history with self-government and other legislation. This bill was tabled in the House last November, I believe. In January I had meetings with the regional district representatives, the mayor of Kelowna, the chief and council from the Westbank, and the Westbank advisory group. This gave me a very good feel not only for the legislation but for the communities.

As part of my background in aboriginal affairs, I will go back to 1997, two ministers ago. At that time, the Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development had been minister for the entire 1993-97 Parliament. As that Parliament was winding down, there was a First Nations Land Management Act for which, in typical government fashion, an attempt was made to rush it through at the last minute. I resisted that. That bill did not pass until 1999.

I would like to say at this time that I was wrong about that piece of legislation. That legislation has turned out to be very important and progressive legislation. It has brought many of the merits of self-government, without necessitating self-government, to the leasing of lands. Fourteen first nations were part of that, I think, and Westbank was a signatory. This ability under the First Nations Land Management Act was responsible for a significant amount of the growth of non-native residency at Westbank.

Also as a part of my history I did represent the Sechelt area on the British Columbia coast for that 1993-97 Parliament. That was prior to a rearrangement of my riding as a consequence of the 1991 census. It was very clear when I represented the greater community there that there was great support for the Sechelt Indian band self-government agreement, which has been in place since 1986. I am sure that this will be mirrored in the experience with Westbank in the Okanagan.

There is one area that I think is very significant for many people. They have very strong feelings that this area needs to be addressed. It is another one of these vacuums in legislation. The question relates to matrimonial property. Matrimonial property law in Canada is a provincial jurisdiction. Each province deals with this in its own way.

In the case of federal reserve lands, there is no matrimonial property legislation. There is no legislation dealing with marital assets after death or divorce or marital separation. This is an area that has been brought forward repeatedly over at least the last 20 years in the House of Commons Standing Committee on Aboriginal Affairs and in other venues. I know the Senate is looking at this issue and has been for quite some time. We have had native women's organizations tackling this area and pushing for change. I think everyone wants to see it fixed, but it is a difficult area and it has not been fixed.

I want to say that the first people living on reserve in Canada who will be covered by matrimonial property law will be the Westbank, almost undoubtedly, because another part of the agreement specifies that within 12 months of the agreement coming into effect this area must be covered off. There must be law brought into place to cover the Westbank membership and that law must not discriminate on the basis of gender.

I know that there has been some preliminary work done and some consultation has been done and that will proceed. I think that whatever occurs with the Westbank on that front will be very useful as a model for others to look at and perhaps will expedite the resolution of that issue for the other 632 bands in Canada. I am certainly hopeful that this will be the case.

Recently there has been a suggestion that because the Westbank First Nation ratification vote required three attempts in order to locally ratify this agreement, it somehow means that we have a community divided unto itself and it taints this whole exercise. I want to make it clear that if we want to form a municipality, for example, and incorporate in the province of British Columbia, what we require in order to express that will is 50% plus one of those who turn out to vote yea, by referendum or by ballot.

In the case of the Westbank, there were three votes. All three have expressed a clear majority who want to see this ratified, but in their idealism in the first attempt they wanted a super majority, in other words, 50% plus one of people on the voting list, thinking that it would be very achievable. Of course it did not happen. And on one of those first two occasions, it did not happen by two ballots, I think.

What it means is that everybody who does not show up or is incapacitated or cannot get to the ballot box is counted as voting no. Westbank basically has put its voting system in line with what everybody else does. It is a simple majority of those who vote. So I do not think this process it tainted at all, quite the contrary.

My time is up, so I will wrap up by saying that this is a very enlightened agreement. It is an attempt to achieve all of those things that will be good for the people and good for the residents of Westbank. I think they have valiantly succeeded.

Westbank First Nation Self-Government ActGovernment Orders

10:55 a.m.

Yukon Yukon

Liberal

Larry Bagnell LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development

First, Mr. Speaker, I would like to commend the member for an excellent speech, an excellent covering of some of the topics I did not cover, and for dispelling some of the myths. I would like to give the member time to say anything he did not finish because he was doing such an excellent job in covering some of the issues that people have brought up.

However, while he is doing that, in case he has nothing left, I will mention one of the letters I got from a member in or near the area who wanted more details on the agreement itself. Of course some of the areas Westbank will have the authority to govern over are things that are part of the community infrastructure, local services similar to what municipalities might take care of: for instance, the collection of sewage, treatment and storage of water, disposal of waste, community parks and buildings, solid waste, recreation facilities, art galleries, fire prevention, street lighting systems, transit inspection, animal control, control of nuisances, and fire alarm systems.

Obviously it would not make any sense for parliamentarians to continue to manage the delivery of such services from our building--now in Gatineau, but maybe in June it will be Hull again--for a municipality or a first nation. Maybe he could speak to the benefits of self-government in general because he has had some experience, as well as to anything else he did not get a chance to finish.

Westbank First Nation Self-Government ActGovernment Orders

10:55 a.m.

Canadian Alliance

John Duncan Canadian Alliance Vancouver Island North, BC

Mr. Speaker, the parliamentary secretary has provided me with the opportunity to speak for a few more minutes, which I appreciate.

There are some fundamental areas in which federal laws will always prevail. It is good to set that table. Those areas deal with peace, order and good government. This totally embraces the criminal law of Canada.

There have been suggestions that somehow Westbank can legitimize things that cannot be legitimized in other parts of Canada. That is simply not correct. Westbank has embraced and adopted the criminal law of Canada.

Other areas are the protection of health and safety of Canadians, intellectual property, broadcasting and telecommunications, national defence, security and public safety. Some of the areas I did not talk about over which Westbank has jurisdiction relate to the wills and estates of members ordinarily resident on Westbank lands. This ties in at times with what I was talking about in terms of marital assets, obviously in the case of death. That is important. That whole area is very significant.

Westbank First Nation has jurisdiction in relation to public works, community infrastructure and services. The way it reads in the agreement is that Westbank law shall prevail over federal law to the extent of any conflict so long as Westbank First Nation health and safety standards and technical codes are at least equivalent to federal health and safety standards and technical codes.

It is the same thing in terms of traffic and transportation. The Westbank First Nation has jurisdiction, but for greater certainty, this shall be designed to be at least equivalent in effect to federal and provincial regulations, safety standards and technical codes. It is the same thing with business licensing regulations.

One thing that Westbank wants to make very clear is that federal and provincial laws apply in respect to the accreditation and certification of professions and trades, including the education professions. This agreement has been very careful in many areas.

On the enforcement of Westbank law, I already mentioned that the enforcement procedures can be comparable to but not greater than those set out in similar federal or provincial legislation. The agreement specifies that the RCMP shall render these services. Basically they are already doing that, only they are doing it under memoranda of agreement that were signed by Canada, British Columbia and the Westbank or the First Nations Community Policing Service dating back to 1992 and 1993. Those are some of the areas.

On health services, Westbank has jurisdiction in relation to the regulation of the practice of traditional Okanagan medicine and the regulation of practitioners of traditional Okanagan medicine.

For culture and language it is the same thing. A very important and significant area is the environment, where they have jurisdiction. The qualification is that these will be at least equivalent in standard to those set out in the federal and provincial laws of general application. In the event of a conflict dealing with protection and conservation of the environment, federal law shall apply. The same goes for environmental assessments. These are important things for people to realize.

There have been some questions about financial accountability. The Westbank First Nation agreement is very precise on financial accountability. The standards will be those recommended by the Canadian Institute of Chartered Accountants.

Another area which some people have expressed questions about relates to people's rights to access the court system. This is covered in that the agreement specifies that the judicial review procedure act of British Columbia applies to the Westbank First Nation. This allows individuals to go to the provincial court system independent of any appeal mechanism. Prosecutions for violation of Westbank law are heard in the B.C. provincial court using summary conviction procedures of the Criminal Code of Canada.

Those are the mains topics that I did not cover in my initial 20 minutes.