House of Commons Hansard #52 of the 37th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was services.

Topics

Sponsorship ProgramOral Question Period

2:25 p.m.

The Speaker

The hon. government House leader.

Sponsorship ProgramOral Question Period

2:25 p.m.

Brossard—La Prairie Québec

Liberal

Jacques Saada LiberalLeader of the Government in the House of Commons and Minister responsible for Democratic Reform

Mr. Speaker, they can fish as much as they like, but the fact remains that this is not the way to get at the truth.

The way to get at the truth is to have a responsible parliamentary committee, one which does not beat around the bush but comes up with a report to inform the Canadian public of exactly what it has heard. In Quebec, the people are particularly keen on having such a report. The Canadian public must be able to form an opinion on what went on. They do not want such a report, but we do.

Sponsorship ProgramOral Question Period

2:25 p.m.

NDP

Judy Wasylycia-Leis NDP Winnipeg North Centre, MB

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Deputy Prime Minister.

I could focus on Jean Lapierre's convenient Jo-Jo impression in predicting the future, but I would rather focus on the Prime Minister's comments of February 12, where he clearly laid the blame on political masters for the sponsorship file.

Given that the Liberals feel the parliamentary committee's work is done, they must be able to now name who the political masters were, unless of course it is convenient for Chuck Guité to be the fall guy.

I would like to ask the Deputy Prime Minister, can the government now tell us which Liberal called the shots?

Sponsorship ProgramOral Question Period

2:30 p.m.

Edmonton West Alberta

Liberal

Anne McLellan LiberalDeputy Prime Minister and Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness

Mr. Speaker, no one is suggesting that the committee's work is done. As I understand it, there was in fact a motion from a member of the committee asking for an interim report. I do not believe it is unreasonable after hearing some 40 witnesses to take stock and inform Canadians as to what has been heard to date.

In fact I would remind everyone in this House that it was the chair of the committee himself, the hon. member for St. Albert, who in February suggested that a preliminary report would indeed be an appropriate approach.

Sponsorship ProgramOral Question Period

2:30 p.m.

NDP

Judy Wasylycia-Leis NDP Winnipeg North Centre, MB

Mr. Speaker, the Liberals simply have no shame. Canadians are not buying Chuck Guité as the lone gunman. They know there is a grassy knoll full of Liberals that the government is desperate to hide until after Canadians get to vote. However, $100 million has been squandered and all we have heard is how angry Liberals are that they were caught.

Will the Deputy Prime Minister, on behalf of her colleagues, apologize right now for being so careless with so many taxpayer dollars? Will the government apologize? Will it say it is sorry?

Sponsorship ProgramOral Question Period

2:30 p.m.

Edmonton West Alberta

Liberal

Anne McLellan LiberalDeputy Prime Minister and Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness

Mr. Speaker, the government has been absolutely clear. We want to get to the bottom of this situation. That is why we want public accounts to get on with its work. That is why the Prime Minister put in place an independent judicial inquiry. That is why we have special counsel at work determining how much of the dollars spent can be recovered. That is why we introduced whistleblower legislation. That is why we are reviewing the relationship between crown corporations and the government. We are committed to finding out what happened here.

Sponsorship ProgramOral Question Period

2:30 p.m.

Canadian Alliance

Diane Ablonczy Canadian Alliance Calgary Nose Hill, AB

Mr. Speaker, someone gave Chuck Guité that huge pot of money, a quarter of a billion dollars, so he could pose as captain Canada. Someone authorized all those millions to flow out of the public treasury.

Was that someone the former finance minister, now Prime Minister?

Sponsorship ProgramOral Question Period

2:30 p.m.

Vancouver Quadra B.C.

Liberal

Stephen Owen LiberalMinister of Public Works and Government Services

Mr. Speaker, the public accounts committee has been sitting for over three months now, hearing approximately 40 witnesses, including three former ministers of public works. It has been looking into this issue. Surely this is the time. In fact the chair of the public accounts committee on February 11 said that he felt money was stolen and people should go to jail. He was drawing conclusions in February, when the committee had just started.

Surely at this stage, the members would bring their thoughts and evidence together and lay it out in an interim report so we can get an idea of what they feel about it.

Sponsorship ProgramOral Question Period

2:30 p.m.

Canadian Alliance

Diane Ablonczy Canadian Alliance Calgary Nose Hill, AB

Mr. Speaker, the Liberals want to shut down the committee with over 90 witnesses still to be heard. We know someone gave the orders that allowed Guité to play fast and loose with a quarter of a billion dollars. Someone masterminded this scheme. Even the Prime Minister confessed there had to be political direction. Yet, the critical question of who gave this political direction remains very much unanswered.

Which politicians are the Liberals trying to protect by shutting down the committee early? Is it the Prime Minister?

Sponsorship ProgramOral Question Period

2:30 p.m.

Vancouver Quadra B.C.

Liberal

Stephen Owen LiberalMinister of Public Works and Government Services

No, Mr. Speaker. The Prime Minister has made it very clear to the House inside and to the general public that he wants to get to the bottom of this, and every action of this government is toward that end.

The public accounts committee has heard from Mr. Guité twice now over the last two years. It has heard from three former ministers of public works. Let us have the hon. member ask the public accounts committee to answer the question she has just posed herself, at least in an interim way, so we can get some measure of where the committee is going.

Sponsorship ProgramOral Question Period

2:30 p.m.

Canadian Alliance

Jason Kenney Canadian Alliance Calgary Southeast, AB

Mr. Speaker, if that minister wants to know what the committee has heard, perhaps he should read the newspapers.

Yesterday, the Deputy Prime Minister said, “On behalf of the government, I would encourage the public accounts committee to continue its work”. The problem is, today her members are about to force through a motion to shut down hearings for the week, and next week the Prime Minister apparently will dissolve Parliament and the committee along with it.

How exactly can the committee continue its work and hear more witnesses if it is being shut down by the Liberals?

Sponsorship ProgramOral Question Period

2:30 p.m.

Edmonton West Alberta

Liberal

Anne McLellan LiberalDeputy Prime Minister and Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness

Mr. Speaker, the government does not want to shut down the committee. I see nothing wrong with a member of the committee asking for an interim report. I go back to February when the chair of the public accounts committee, the member for St. Albert, said that he would like to have a preliminary report based on the committee's work.

Therefore, far from shutting down the committee, I think what the motion speaks to is that they are doing what the chair wants. They are going to inform Canadians--

Sponsorship ProgramOral Question Period

2:35 p.m.

The Speaker

The hon. member for Calgary Southeast.

Sponsorship ProgramOral Question Period

2:35 p.m.

Canadian Alliance

Jason Kenney Canadian Alliance Calgary Southeast, AB

Mr. Speaker, we all know about the testimony before committee. We know about all the Liberals who have come before the committee to lie. What we want is to hear from other witnesses. We want to hear from Jean--

Sponsorship ProgramOral Question Period

2:35 p.m.

The Speaker

The hon. member for Calgary Southeast I think may have crossed the line in this case. He was suggesting that perhaps there were members who were there telling untruths. If that is the case, I know he would not want to do that. He will have to withdraw that remark and continue.

Sponsorship ProgramOral Question Period

2:35 p.m.

Canadian Alliance

Jason Kenney Canadian Alliance Calgary Southeast, AB

Mr. Speaker, I was referring to former Liberal members of this place who have lied before the committee, like Mr. Gagliano.

We want to hear from people like Jean Chrétien. We want to hear from people like Warren Kinsella. We will be unable to that if the Liberals shut down the committee.

I have a question. I have a motion before the committee to continue its hearings Monday through Friday of next week. Will the Deputy Prime Minister encourage the Liberal members to vote in favour of hearings all next week?

Sponsorship ProgramOral Question Period

2:35 p.m.

Edmonton West Alberta

Liberal

Anne McLellan LiberalDeputy Prime Minister and Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness

Mr. Speaker, I have no doubt that all members of the public accounts committee will consider the hon. member's motion and they will vote on that motion in due course. However, that is up to the public accounts committee.

I go back to the fact that I find it somewhat strange that the official opposition does not think it is appropriate to provide an interim report to the Canadian public. The committee has heard well over 40 witnesses. I think it is not inappropriate at this point to take stock, prepare a preliminary report and decide how to move forward from there.

Employment InsuranceOral Question Period

2:35 p.m.

Bloc

Paul Crête Bloc Kamouraska—Rivière-Du-Loup—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC

Mr. Speaker, today I feel cheated. I feel cheated by the Liberals, just as the people of Quebec and our regions feel cheated by the Liberal government, which, after substantial election promises in 2000 and four years of waiting, has just announced very inadequate changes to employment insurance.

After having taken $45 billion from the employment insurance fund, how does the minister have the audacity to deliver another round of short-lived, transitional measures once the election is over? How unbelievably cynical.

Employment InsuranceOral Question Period

2:35 p.m.

Eglinton—Lawrence Ontario

Liberal

Joe Volpe LiberalMinister of Human Resources and Skills Development

Mr. Speaker, perhaps the hon. member has not understood the entire context of the measures I am implementing today. I have been the minister for four months and during those four months I have acted quickly. It seems a little odd that the member opposite finds that $140 million is not enough to cope with the problems reported in the regions.

Employment InsuranceOral Question Period

2:35 p.m.

Bloc

Paul Crête Bloc Kamouraska—Rivière-Du-Loup—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC

Mr. Speaker, $150 million is three one-thousandths of the $45 billion surplus that was stolen from the unemployed.

After four difficult years of waiting, the Minister of Human Resources and Skills Development is announcing extremely inadequate transitional measures, on the eve of an election in an attempt to win votes, but the reality remains: the government is leaving thousands of unemployed people to fend for themselves. Not one more unemployed person will qualify for benefits.

How can the government, which took another $3 billion out of the pockets of the unemployed last year, have the nerve to announce a measly $270 million over two years in temporary measures that are far from meeting the needs in any permanent way?

Employment InsuranceOral Question Period

2:35 p.m.

Eglinton—Lawrence Ontario

Liberal

Joe Volpe LiberalMinister of Human Resources and Skills Development

Mr. Speaker, the Liberal task force that examined the situation and proposed very positive measures has suggested some solutions. I have acted according to them. I am not cynical like the member opposite, who tries to feed on the misery of others. It seems a little ironic that a separatist is trying to get solutions from federalism that he is not capable of providing.

Employment InsuranceOral Question Period

2:40 p.m.

Bloc

Michel Guimond Bloc Beauport—Montmorency—Côte-De- Beaupré—Île-D'Orléans, QC

Mr. Speaker, I remind the minister that even Claude Béchard, the Quebec Liberal minister responsible for employment, said that it was not enough. To my knowledge, Mr. Béchard is not a sovereignist, but a federalist.

It is all the workers and the unemployed who have been betrayed by these so-called reforms, which are once again delaying the real solutions. This has a distinct air of improvisation about it.

How can the minister be credible when all he is announcing are schemes cobbled together at the last minute, on the eve of an election, in an attempt to win votes, when what is needed is an in-depth reform?

Employment InsuranceOral Question Period

2:40 p.m.

Eglinton—Lawrence Ontario

Liberal

Joe Volpe LiberalMinister of Human Resources and Skills Development

Mr. Speaker, I proposed some very concrete and positive measures, as suggested by the members of the Liberal the task force.

I am not interested in the hon. member's antics. He has nothing better to offer. I already said that I proposed four measures in the amount of $280 million, over a two-year period. These are very concrete measures aimed at solving the problems in the employment insurance program.

Would the hon. member prefer I did not take these measures?

Employment InsuranceOral Question Period

2:40 p.m.

Bloc

Michel Guimond Bloc Beauport—Montmorency—Côte-De- Beaupré—Île-D'Orléans, QC

Mr. Speaker, I invite the minister to come to the regions to explain his reform, if it is such a good one. What the minister is saying is “Wait until after the election. The Liberal task force will carry on its exercise until 2005 and then we will see about a true reform”.

How can we lend any credibility to this Prime Minister, to this government and to all these Liberals, when even the hon. member for Bonaventure—Gaspé—Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Pabok admits that the need for major changes to the employment insurance program is far from being unanimously recognized in this government? What can the unemployed expect from the Liberals? Zero.

Employment InsuranceOral Question Period

2:40 p.m.

Eglinton—Lawrence Ontario

Liberal

Joe Volpe LiberalMinister of Human Resources and Skills Development

Mr. Speaker, Bloc Quebecois members, separatists, do not mention the other figures that precede the first zero. Be that as it may, I just announced the implementation of very concrete measures worth $280 million.

The Liberals did their homework. They submitted proposals to me and I implemented them. I just mentioned it. I have been in this position for four months. The task force did its job. It made a proposal and I acted on it immediately.