House of Commons Hansard #145 of the 38th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was price.

Topics

Business of the HouseGovernment Orders

11:20 a.m.

The Deputy Speaker

The House has heard the terms of the motion. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

Business of the HouseGovernment Orders

11:20 a.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

(Motion agreed to)

The House resumed consideration of the motion that Bill C-66, An Act to authorize payments to provide assistance in relation to energy costs, housing energy consumption and public transit infrastructure, and to make consequential amendments to certain Acts, be read the second time and referred to a committee.

Energy Costs Assistance Measures ActGovernment Orders

November 1st, 2005 / 11:20 a.m.

Liberal

David Anderson Liberal Victoria, BC

Mr. Speaker, when I spoke earlier today, I neglected at the end of my speech to table a document that I had quoted. With your indulgence and the agreement of the House, I would like to table the document at this time.

Energy Costs Assistance Measures ActGovernment Orders

11:20 a.m.

The Deputy Speaker

Does the hon. member for Victoria have the unanimous consent of the House to table the document?

Energy Costs Assistance Measures ActGovernment Orders

11:20 a.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

Energy Costs Assistance Measures ActGovernment Orders

11:20 a.m.

NDP

Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the opportunity to ask my colleague a question on Bill C-66. It is important to note that the bill does not really deal with the systemic issue of the oil and gas industry in the Canadian industrial as well as consumer driven society.

Despite the testimony we heard before the industry committee on this issue, there has not been a progressive approach to dealing specifically with the issue of refining capacity. The testimony before committee stated that 95% to 97% is done in Canada. At the same time, we do not have the oil and gas industry making the investments back into the system which is necessary to solve this problem.

Currently, the federal government provides tax incentives and subsidies of $1.4 billion annually to the oil and gas sector as well as having a corporate tax reduction, which will fall significantly over the years. It will fall from 28% in 2000 to 21% in 2007 at a time when we have had record profits at the pump as well as record prices at the pump.

Does the hon. member agree that this is the best way to go or should we actually be taking that money away from the oil and gas industry and investing it back into alternatives which will be more successful for our future?

Energy Costs Assistance Measures ActGovernment Orders

11:20 a.m.

Liberal

Judy Sgro Liberal York West, ON

Mr. Speaker, these are critically important issues for all of us. We have to look at a variety of things.

Clearly, we need more refining opportunities because this is of such critical importance to all of us as we go forward in ensuring that our country is competitive. There are several other points. The crude oil that we get from the tar sands requires special refining. Oil from the tar sands cannot be processed with the current equipment or with what someone else has. The tar sands require a special process.

One of the things we are not talking about because frankly it is not what we want is that with that huge hike in gas prices a huge amount of that money will come back to the government, which will provide the government with money to reinvest in our cities and our communities and to look for other opportunities to help other Canadians.

Energy Costs Assistance Measures ActGovernment Orders

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

Guy Lauzon Conservative Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON

Mr. Speaker, I have been trying to ask questions. We heard many comments about this bill, some of which I found to be quite alarming.

My colleague from the Conservative Party mentioned that 3.6 million disabled people probably would not receive any benefit from this bill.

I come from an agricultural community. One of the small custom operators told me that his fuel costs have increased $4,000 per week. He told me that he could not pass this increase on to the people hiring him because they are only getting $95 a tonne for their corn. He is wondering what he should be doing because of this huge price increase. Taxi drivers in my community are asking me the same question.

The hon. member who spoke is a member of the government. The first speaker was also a member of the government and asked why so little is being done. I think as a member of the government the hon. member could inform us as to why so little is being done by this government to address such a severe problem.

Energy Costs Assistance Measures ActGovernment Orders

11:25 a.m.

Liberal

Judy Sgro Liberal York West, ON

Mr. Speaker, I would like to know what the hon. member suggests the government should do.

I think the first people we need to help are the most vulnerable, which is exactly what the government has done. The government has targeted the poorest of the poor to get help to them as fast as possible. Remember that this is something that was not even talked about three months ago.

The government has put a bill together very quickly to make sure that there will be help this winter, not two years from now. There will be assistance this winter for the people who need it the most, which is the poorest of the poor. They are the ones who need the help the fastest. The assistance will be for those people who are earning an income of under $30,000.

Energy Costs Assistance Measures ActGovernment Orders

11:25 a.m.

Conservative

Joy Smith Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB

Mr. Speaker, clearly the government is on life support. It is one thing after another.

Although Bill C-66 has some good intentions, it has a lot of loopholes in it. I heard the member opposite mention that 10 years ago a report was done on rising gas taxes because the government wanted to fast track it. The member opposite also talked about investing in our cities and all the things that are coming forward, such as infrastructure money and so forth. That was an election promise a year and a half ago and my city of Winnipeg does not have a signed agreement.

When I look at the bill I see so many loopholes. Many people will not be receiving this money. I hear members across asking what is wrong here and saying that we need to do more.

Would the member opposite please answer why has it taken more than a decade and a crisis for the government to implement a bill? Why has it taken this long to be alarmed at what is happening right now? Does the government not have any predictions for what is happening?

Throwing a bill together with some good intentions is fine, but it will not address the problem.

Energy Costs Assistance Measures ActGovernment Orders

11:25 a.m.

Liberal

Judy Sgro Liberal York West, ON

Mr. Speaker, I have not been here that long and I still consider myself to be a new member, but clearly my hon. colleague has been here even less time.

Nothing moves that quickly in government. It has to be carefully thought out. The government was able to pull together Bill C-66 so quickly and it needs to be applauded for its fast action. I was surprised at the government's ability to do it so quickly. The government should be applauded rather than criticized for doing that.

When we talk about the money going to cities, the money that we are investing in the new deal for cities is a new direction for this government. Clearly, the opposition does not support it anyway. Part of the $800 million that we talked about earlier will be going into the very city that the member represents. It might be possible to have additional discussions to help move that agreement along and get it signed. Many other cities are signing the agreements and one would have to question why it is not getting done in the member's city. I do not know if it is the MP who is not moving the discussion along, but I think we would want to see that money invested as quickly as possible.

Energy Costs Assistance Measures ActGovernment Orders

11:25 a.m.

Bloc

Guy André Bloc Berthier—Maskinongé, QC

Mr. Speaker, as hon. members know, the Bloc Québécois will be supporting this bill. There are, however, some areas of concern. One of these is the seniors who receive the GIS and could benefit from a measure such as the one proposed by the government.

The 2001 report by the Standing Committee on Human Resources Development indicated that over 270,000 Canadians were not receiving the benefits to which they were entitled. Since then, efforts have been made to contact the seniors in question. We are all familiar with the efforts by the member for Saint-Maurice—Champlain throughout Quebec in connection with the guaranteed income supplement. It appears that half of those entitled have now been found.

If eligibility for this fuel program is based on an incomplete list of GIS recipients, that could result in some people who were entitled to it not being able to benefit from it. How is the government going to remedy this?

Energy Costs Assistance Measures ActGovernment Orders

11:25 a.m.

Liberal

Judy Sgro Liberal York West, ON

Mr. Speaker, there is currently a huge advertising campaign to reach out to people to make them aware that they may be entitled to the GIS. We want everyone who is entitled to it to get it.

Recently in one of the agencies in Toronto we were talking about putting out different messages in various languages, which is what the government is doing in order to reach people. Many people in the ethnic communities still have difficulty with English but are entitled to the GIS if they would only apply.

One colleague talked earlier about an 82 year old who did not want to ask for any help. The reason we have social programs is to help people. If people do not want to apply for them for whatever reason, it is difficult for us to force them to accept help that is there as a result of their tax dollars.

We are moving forward to make sure that people get the help they want, need and deserve.

Energy Costs Assistance Measures ActGovernment Orders

11:30 a.m.

Bloc

Marc Boulianne Bloc Mégantic—L'Érable, QC

Mr. Speaker, I am very happy to rise and speak in this debate on BillC-66, An Act to authorize payments to provide assistance in relation to energy costs, housing energy consumption and public transit infrastructure, and to make consequential amendments to certain Acts. In regard to energy costs, the government has been slow to take action, even though it was important to do so. There will also be two other measures. The first is the petroleum monitoring agency, which is something that the Bloc Québécois has been requesting for ages in order to lower prices. The second is the Competition Act, a separate act, which will bring about improvements.

First of all, I would like to reiterate the Bloc's position on this bill. We are in favour of it, especially in principle. The Bloc Québécois thinks that the measures in this government plan are quite good. One can hardly be opposed to virtue itself, and this bill provides relief to people who need it in order to reduce our dependence on petroleum. Nevertheless, there are some deficiencies in the bill. As earlier speakers have indicated, the program is incomplete. Some people or groups are not only neglected but completely abandoned.

Think of the budget of a poor family with children. My colleague from Berthier—Maskinongé just spoke about seniors who receive the guaranteed income supplement. It is a good measure in itself, but $565 million is not enough. Improving the energy efficiency of housing, providing additional funding for public transit and creating a petroleum monitoring agency are all positive principles. On the other hand, the bill lacks teeth.

We have a few more suggestions or remarks. First, the Bloc Québécois wanted $1.5 billion for disadvantaged people. That is three times as much as what the government is providing. Again there are oversights. In his question, my colleague from Berthier—Maskinongé mentioned single people and disadvantaged couples. Some single people in rural ridings have to drive a very long way to work. They earn between $8 and $10 an hour and have to pay their fuel costs, but there is nothing in this program for them if they do not have children.

The same is true of taxi drivers and truckers—every speaker has said the same thing but the government seems impervious to it—who represent an incredibly vibrant sector of our economy. They spend a lot on fuel but do not receive any assistance.

We must focus on two sectors in particular: farmers and independent woodlot operators. There the shortfall is particularly devastating. For example, farmers have not only seen an increase in the price of fuel: they will also be hit by increases in the price of a number of items that are essential to any farming operation, such as the fertilizer used by grain growers. These increases will not allow them to offset their losses. According to estimates, Quebec farmers will have to absorb over $40 million dollars in additional energy costs. In Canada, the total is some $250 million. We believe that a refundable tax credit could allow the government to provide help up to this amount. Two hundred and fifty thousand Canadian farms need help with energy costs. Another option would be a refundable credit equivalent to 10% of income, with a ceiling. Those are steps that can be taken in agriculture.

I will take another example, that of maple syrup producers in my riding, who face a different set of problems—there are the burners. Their production is crippled in the absence of action in this industry, just as it is in other types of farming. It is the same thing in the case of the independent forest producers. They depend on the use of fuel to harvest the wood and deliver it to the mills. Once again, nothing is being done to help them.

The Bloc Québécois has proposed that forest producers be allowed to deduct 150% of their fuel costs.

This is a reasonable provision, which would allow independent forest producers to continue to operate and to think of tomorrow. The future of these businesses is at stake. The cost of fuel would be reduced.

Obviously, the same principle would apply to other sectors. For example, I spoke earlier about the bill respecting housing, repairs and work. The Bloc Québécois deplores the fact that families must initially spend large amounts of money without any assurance that they will eventually be reimbursed. This program involves an element of risk, and there are always unpleasant surprises. Someone may think they are eligible for the program, but for a variety of reasons they are not eligible. For example, they do not meet the conditions. There are always things to do and often people have invested large amounts of money.

So in terms of housing energy infrastructure, it is absolutely essential that we have assurances that they will not wait until the work is finished to tell people that they are not eligible for a subsidy for part of the work and they have to pay for it out of their own pocket. That is the reason why what we are proposing in this area is so important.

First of all, the program’s budgets for housing energy efficiency should be doubled. It has become clear to us that there was a certain rigidity in the eligibility criteria. We should maintain and guarantee those criteria but, once again, make them more flexible. Another suggestion could make the bill even more effective. That would be to provide for a specific envelope within the program for conversion to fuel oil and electricity. The situation in these areas is hazy and vague: it is not quite clear where the bill stands in this regard.

Also, on housing, there should continue to be substantial grants to reduce the costs of conversion. This is a subject which has arisen very often in our ridings. Of course, when these programs come up—as the hon. members know—people come to see us, they make inquiries and they try to find out whether they qualify for the programs.

I also said earlier that we would like to change the operating rules, so that home owners can receive the grants at the beginning of the process. My colleague replied to me earlier that this was possible. It is one way of doing things. This is what the government should be asked to do, except that it still does not have the interest of consumers or the regions at heart.

In this bill, it is quite clear that the government is being election-minded and partisan in its advocacy of one important element. It is not necessarily giving priority to consumers or to the regions. This is nothing new to us so far as the regions are concerned. For the Liberal government long ago abandoned the regions, especially those that are very remote. We need only take a look back at the principal bills and motions that have been tabled. When we live in the regions, we are cast aside.

I was speaking earlier of my region, a farming region where one can find the maple syrup and dairy industries. There are currently surpluses—nearly 55 million pounds of maple syrup. Yesterday, with regard to the Pacific gateway, the government was talking to us about consulting the municipalities, the government and the arbitration tribunals. Meanwhile, there are no emergency measures and, in the countryside and the regions, we are faced with certain problems. The same thing is happening with this bill. Farmers and loggers, who are part of the remote, even the very remote regions, are developing the regional economy, and employment as well. Even if we asked the government for something, we would not get it, because that aspect still remains, that central electoral focus in this document.

That is serious in itself, but there is worse still. I refer to the funding of this program. It is paid for by taxpayers only, not by those who have caused and profited from the crisis, the oil companies.

Before the session began, as a member of the Standing Committee on Industry, Natural Resources, Science and Technology, I had the opportunity to hear witnesses from the oil industry for a whole day. They were boasting about the fact that the oil companies had made money and huge profits.

Last week Exxon announced $10 billion in profits. Petro-Canada's profits had increased by 38%. The witnesses from these oil companies came to tell us that the companies were making money and that they would continue to do so. The government lacks courage. It is unable to intervene or assume its responsibilities.

It is unacceptable for this program to be funded solely by the taxpayer. That is the major flaw in this program. Furthermore, oil prices will continue to increase.

At some point, obviously, oil prices stopped increasing, but that was just strategy. When these big companies saw that people were talking about this a great deal, that a committee was sitting and that the government was prepared to take action, they eased off on the price of oil. Nonetheless, this will begin anew because the government is in cahoots with the oil industry.

They have some advantages over the mining industries, like the ones in my region, for instance. The mining industry does not receive the same tax benefits as the oil industry. We can see that several members of the government, including the Prime Minister, have interests in oil. It is therefore very risky for them to be assertive.

The Bloc thinks quite clearly that we must call on the oil industry to contribute at least $500 million of their record profits to meet all the needs. As I was saying earlier, the lack of courage is the major flaw in the plan. That is certain.

It was also mentioned earlier that a great deal of people, groups and sectors are not covered, including seniors, disabled people and singles. We could probably cover more sectors with this $500 million. What is more, we could take care of people and regions the best way possible.

The same thing goes for the office of petroleum price information. We can see that in creating this office, the government is still lacking in courage—which is logical and in keeping with their bill. This is of course something that the Bloc Québécois has demanded, not merely suggested, for a long time. We have long called for an independent and transparent body to monitor petroleum prices or at least provide us with explanations. This office ought to be able to carry out investigations, but of course will not be able to. In fact, if certain things were to come out, that might be very embarrassing to the government. It will not have the power to make recommendations to the House of Commons.

The Liberal government—that is, the government of the sponsorship program—is saving face with the creation of this office, but not giving it any real powers. It does not want to give it any. So it has no interest in asking the oil companies to at least cut the losses a bit for consumers.

Clearly, this bill needs improving, if only in the two areas I have mentioned, that is creating a price control office and putting more teeth into the Competition Act. The latter must be done immediately. In Canada, in Quebec in particular, and we have seen this often in Montreal, telemarketing is the hub of all manner of fraud. The sanctions are not stiff enough. I repeat, the Bloc is in favour of beefing up the Competition Act. If there were major penalties, this might bring the oil companies in line as far as prices are concerned. The increasing prices must absolutely be controlled, and both laxness and repeat offences must be stopped. The Competition Act must be made more effective.

In addition, as recommended by the Standing Committee on Industry, Natural Resources, Science and Technology , there must be a reverse burden of proof. That is important to the process of determining whether there has been a conspiracy. There may have been damages and the oil companies must be made aware that they will have payments to make.

The Bloc Québécois is in favour of this bill, but it needs considerable amendment in order to provide general assistance to all economic sectors, especially those that have been the hardest hit.

I want to talk about truckers again. This is extremely important to them, and to forestry workers, low-income families, seniors and the disabled.

As I mentioned earlier in a question, consumers have concerns about this bill. Quite often, people are convinced that they are eligible for a program. However, as things progress, there are some nasty surprises: they learn that they do not meet the criteria. I gave the example of renovations: an individual may invest $3,000, $5,000 or $10,000 and, ultimately, some bureaucrat may decide that the project is not energy efficient, that the individual is ineligible and that the money must be repaid. These programs are full of surprises. To be honest, there is a huge difference between the program or legislation in theory and in practice. At times, we may be in for a very nasty surprise.

In short, the government's plan is very misleading. It must be improved in a number of areas, including those I mentioned earlier. I want to mention them again. It is unacceptable for taxpayers to fund this program. This makes no sense. We must look to the oil companies to do their part, so that the program has the necessary resources to meet the needs of society, for all organizations and individuals.

In this regard, we have a number of recommendations, as usual. Whenever the government manages to improve its bills, most of the time it is thanks to recommendations and suggestions made by the Bloc Québécois. However, the government goes out of its way to avoid recognizing the Bloc Québécois as the author of such improvements, by saying that it had talked about them two, three or four years ago. However, it is well known that the Bloc Québécois, thanks to its rigour and its suggestions, makes these bills better.

Now, once again, we are asking the government to improve this bill so as to benefit all sectors and all regions.

Energy Costs Assistance Measures ActGovernment Orders

11:45 a.m.

Scarborough—Guildwood Ontario

Liberal

John McKay LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Finance

Mr. Speaker, every once in a while the Bloc Québécois members give a demonstration of why they will never form the government and that speech was one of them.

I find it inconceivable that somehow or another the government should just simply hand Canadians money and hope they spend the money on energy retrofits, but if they do not that is just simply too bad.

That seemed to be the central thesis of the hon. member's speech, which was, “What a terrible system”. The terrible system is that the government says Canadians may or may not qualify for this particular program. If they do qualify, we will give them moneys based upon the areas in which their retrofit qualifies. I cannot fathom how the government would approach it in any other way.

We simply cannot write cheques to people and say that we hope they do something, that we know their Jacuzzi was a little extra but we will pay for their Jacuzzi, or that they were not entirely putting insulation in their roof but were putting in some nicer windows and things of that nature, which may or may not be better in regard to retrofits.

I frankly do not understand how the government could approach it in any other way, other than to say that this is the program that is available, and yes, the risk is theirs. If they make renovations to their houses which do not qualify, then they will not receive government money, nor should they receive it. The hon. member seems to be upset that this will be a risk on the part of the homeowner. That is my number one question. I cannot imagine why he would propose what he is proposing.

Number two, he seems to think that the energy companies are not participating in funding for this. I would ask him to look a little more closely at the financial statements of the Government of Canada, particularly in the section on corporate income tax revenues over the last one or two years, which have increased from about 10% of the revenues of the government to 14% of the revenues of the government.

There is a taxation point at royalties. There is a taxation point at dividends. There is a taxation point at the corporations themselves. There is a taxation point at the recipient of the dividends. There is a surtax. All of this leads lead to an effective marginal rate of something in the order of 36% to 38%.

Energy Costs Assistance Measures ActGovernment Orders

11:50 a.m.

Bloc

Marc Boulianne Bloc Mégantic—L'Érable, QC

Mr. Speaker, first, in terms of forming the government, we have no intention of doing so. I can assure the member. The Bloc's intentions are very clear. Our goal is sovereignty as quickly as possible and not to govern Canada.

Second, there are formulas for avoiding risk. It involves home evaluations and advances. Some programs are designed this way. Once the evaluation is complete, an advance is made to cover a percentage of the cost of the work. These programs are for people who have difficulty getting their work done. They are not all earning $100,000 or $200,000. Their finances are tight. They have a very difficult time investing $4,000 or $5,000. If the work is very carefully evaluated, a system of advances can be put in place. A number of programs are designed this way.

Third, in terms of profits, I would point out to the member that we pay taxes too. At issue are the taxes paid by the oil companies making the profits. I mentioned earlier that Exxon had made some $10 billion in profits. These surpluses are not taxed. The case is the same for Petro-Canada. The government has been negligent and will have to pay the price at some point.

Energy Costs Assistance Measures ActGovernment Orders

11:50 a.m.

Bloc

Louise Thibault Bloc Rimouski—Témiscouata, QC

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague from Mégantic—L'Érable for his presentation.

First I want to ask him whether, in response to the extremely arrogant comments made by the parliamentary secretary, he agrees with me that among the measures a creative government could introduce to help families that are less well off wanting to take advantage of a home energy improvement program, it could include tax credits.

The parliamentary secretary's main concern is overpayments, in other words, that people will be given too much money. That shows how little confidence he has in Canadians and Quebeckers. He does not believe that people will file claims based on a well known culture, but that instead they will go after the money for another use.

Accordingly, does my colleague agree that these measures could have been tied in with tax credits? In the event of an overpayment, the recipient would have to pay it back. That is how it works in other cases.

My colleague also said that the price increases were a recurring problem. Ever since the representatives of the oil industry appeared before the committee, the prices have gone down. Is that a coincidence? My colleague thinks that the prices will increase. When we think about this recurring problem and the future of our environment, then should this program not also include a long-term investment in clean energy? I am referring to converting to wind energy and solar power.

Energy Costs Assistance Measures ActGovernment Orders

11:50 a.m.

Bloc

Marc Boulianne Bloc Mégantic—L'Érable, QC

Mr. Speaker, I thank the member for Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques for her questions.

With regard to her first question, she is correct. We must have faith in Canadians and Quebeckers. The parliamentary secretary suggested that people might inflate the cost of their renovations or invent expenditures in order to get more money. The Liberals are used to such talk. This will not happen here. We must have faith in those undertaking renovations.

Both my colleague's suggestions are fundamental. This program should have included a tax credit. It is easy to recover the money in the event of an overpayment. Quite often, the government finds a way to recover the $2 it is owed. It is true that it is not trying nearly as hard to recover the $100 million. Whatever the case may be, this measure affects us. My colleague's suggestion is very important.

As for the recurring problem of increasing gas prices, this is true. Anyone with a little political experience need only look at what is happening: when the oil companies are cornered, they start to admit that they can influence prices. Then, when the crisis is over and they see that the government does not have the courage to protect consumers, prices go up. We see this dynamic time and again.

My colleague's suggestion with regard to alternative energy is also worthwhile. The Bloc Québécois put forward a similar proposal, particularly with regard to wind energy. There are already supplementary energy programs in place. This is important too, but the government sees it as secondary.

Energy Costs Assistance Measures ActGovernment Orders

11:55 a.m.

Liberal

Lui Temelkovski Liberal Oak Ridges—Markham, ON

Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the hon. member a number of questions.

First, he baffled us a little when he began his speech by saying that he supports the bill in principle, and then, a little further on in his speech, he said that he supports the monitoring agencies and then, near the end, he said that he supports the retrofit program. The only area in which I see him disagreeing is that he would like to see a lot more money put into the program.

We would all like to see a lot more money put into the program but Canadians do not want to pay more taxes when they have a huge mortgage to pay off. They would rather pay down their mortgage than have their taxes increased.

I think what the hon. member across is suggesting is that we put more money into the program. The only way the government can put more money into the program is by taxing people more or by not paying down our debt and allocating the money toward this program.

I would ask the member what he would do in that situation.

Energy Costs Assistance Measures ActGovernment Orders

11:55 a.m.

Bloc

Marc Boulianne Bloc Mégantic—L'Érable, QC

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his question. First off, it is true that the Bloc expressed its support in principle. We pointed out, however, that the program was far from comprehensive. It failed to include the disabled, seniors, workers, farmers and forestry workers, for example. Many groups are not covered.

I disagree with my colleague's suggestion that we are asking for money. That is not what we said. We said the oil companies have created the crisis and have benefited from it. They have an obligation to the public and to those who have been abandoned. They should be approached for the money, some $500 million or $1 billion. They who deliberately created a crisis and will continue creating it should pay for part of it or contribute to the program for everyone.

Energy Costs Assistance Measures ActGovernment Orders

11:55 a.m.

Liberal

Maria Minna Liberal Beaches—East York, ON

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to rise today in support of Bill C-66.

Every hon. member in the House knows that rising energy prices have an impact on Canadian consumers and on our economy. The bill demonstrates our government's commitment to action that will make a difference for Canadians, and in particular, Canadians who live on low incomes. It demonstrates our attention to the needs of people, such as many of our seniors who we know are feeling the pinch of high energy prices.

Bill C-66 is the result of listening to Canadians and looking at the evidence. Bill C-66 is about making responsible choices with public dollars that allow us to identify how we can do the most good for Canadians who need it the most.

Our government and, I am sure, many of us as parliamentarians have heard from organizations, such as the Consumers Association of Canada and Option consommateurs in Quebec. We have heard from many business groups, community organizations and individuals. They have pointed out the many ways that rising energy costs affect us all in terms of fuel costs for cars and trucks, in terms of the oil and natural gas that Canadians use to heat their homes and in terms of the cost of making and shipping products from farms and factories.

Their stories are important but hearing from these groups and from citizens is only part of making effective policies. We also need statistical evidence on issues, such as energy prices and impacts, which Statistics Canada has in abundance. We need evidence on consumer patterns, which Industry Canada is able to provide with its Consumer Trend Report.

That is the difference between being in government and being in opposition. In government we need to listen and use the evidence that finds those places where we can actually make a difference, not just a headline. That is the reason an across the board tax cut in some area is not at the top of our list. It would do little to help the people who are facing the biggest challenges today. That is the reason massive intervention in the energy marketplace is not on that list either. In today's global market it simply does not work and only triggers negative impacts for our economy.

On the other hand, the energy cost benefit would provide the kind of targeted assistance that three million low income Canadian seniors and low income families with children need. That is real action, not rhetoric.

We know that a lasting way to help a lot of families control rising energy costs is by making their homes more energy efficient for the long term. This is not new to us. Our government has launched many programs to help consumers choose wisely when buying products that use energy or when they buy fuel. Programs, such as the new ENERGY STAR program, are helping consumers every day. They are making it easy for Canadians to choose the most efficient electrical products and appliances in the marketplace.

The same is true for the auto fuel consumption data that Natural Resources Canada publishes annually based on information collected by Transport Canada. In that way consumers can choose vehicles that are the most fuel efficient.

I am sure my hon. colleagues know that our government has also put in place the EnerGuide program and programs to assist consumers to conduct energy audits of their homes. Those audits are already enabling Canadians to cut their heating and cooling bills in the most cost efficient way possible. If consumers act on the recommendations of these energy audits by making energy saving investments in their home, they can look forward to as much as $150 of the cost of the audit being refunded. This is already in place for Canadians.

The legislation would enable our government to go even further to help Canadians with a focus on assistance to help pay for items such as draft proofing, improvements to heating systems and the replacement of windows under the new EnerGuide program for low income households.

As I believe members know, the bill would enhance market transparency and accountability. It would do this through the new office of petroleum price information, which is a very important office.

If we were taking these actions, all would be important steps ahead. However, we have been getting ahead of the curve. We have been taking actions that are designed to reduce the dependence of Canada on conventional energy sources. I am speaking of initiatives like support for demonstration projects that are producing ethanol from crops such as corn, straw and other forms of cellulose. We aggressively are pursuing alternative energy sources such as wind power and solar energy.

I am a member of the finance committee and it is in the process of doing prebudget consultation hearings. I believe tomorrow, Thursday and Friday the committee will be in Toronto.

During the panel on the environment, some fantastic presentations and recommendations were heard. One of them was on wind power. In fact, the presenter stated that we would be able to provide all the energy requirement for remote and small communities in our country through wind power in the near future. I think that is a fantastic way to look at our society. It is a way of dealing not only with the environment but with the cost of energy.

There are many other examples that were presented at that hearing. Europe has a great many to offer us already. If I am not mistaken, Germany already provides 6% of its energy through wind power. We need to go in that direction.

In September our government's Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency contributed $3.6 million to help establish the Canadian Wind Energy Institute at North Cape, Prince Edward Island. We are moving ahead ourselves quite aggressively in that direction.

The Prince Edward Island wind-hydrogen village project is in operation to test ways to use wind energy as a primary energy source. That project is exploring how to use wind energy as a way to produce hydrogen to provide backup and primary electricity for industrial, farm and household needs, not to mention hydrogen fuel for transportation.

We are doing that and a great deal more. Solar energy was another one.

My corner of Beaches—East York is doing its part. I was proud to be at Glen Stewart Park a couple of weeks ago to plant trees in memory of the late Bob Hunter. As I pressed the sapling into the soil, I could not help but reflect on the positive difference Bob had made with his life. Greenpeace International put it well on its website when it said, “Perhaps more than anyone else, Bob Hunter invented Greenpeace. His death on May 2 nd 2005, of cancer marks the passing of a true original, one of the heroes of the environmental movement...”

We have one of our own eco-warriors in Beaches—East York. Ours is one of the most environmentally conscious ridings in metro Toronto. We have in our midst some eco-pioneers of whom Bob Hunter would be very proud today. Take Alex Winch of the Beach Solar Laundromat on Queen Street East, for example. When I brought environment minister Stéphane Dion to meet Alex this spring, the minister was very impressed with the solar laundromat and of the--

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12:05 p.m.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Marcel Proulx)

May I remind the hon. member to not name ministers but rather use their titles, please.

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12:05 p.m.

Liberal

Maria Minna Liberal Beaches—East York, ON

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of the Environment was very impressed with the Solar Laundromat and the big plans Alex has for designing and introducing sound environmental solutions.

Neighbourhood Link-Senior Link, for example, is using Alex's technology to heat a new affordable 25 unit home for seniors it is building at Danforth and Main. This is a great project because it is housing with which the Government of Canada is assisting, combined it with energy savings.

Plans for the new building include a green roof and courtyard garden. The building will also have significant environmental features, including solar thermal collectors, energy efficient lighting, heating, cooling and appliances, and reduced flow bathroom fixtures. It is a project that will be a model for future energy efficient affordable housing initiatives.

Just last week Alex's company announced that it had been retained by Neighbourhood Link-Senior Link to generate renewable thermal energy for the domestic hot water needs of its 64 suite seniors residence located at 11 Main Street and at its 44 suite residence at 680 Kingston Road. The two buildings are currently joined by a common hot water heating system.

The company owns and maintains a system of 80 flat plate solar thermal collectors with a total area of 160 square metres. The collectors are expected to displace 18,600 cubic metres of gas annually, reducing carbon dioxide emissions by 37 tonnes annually. The emission reduction equates to 221 kilograms per occupant, representing almost one-quarter of the federal government's one tonne challenge for the residents of the buildings.

Eco-entrepreneurs like Alex Winch are an integral part of the project green, an initiative announced by the federal government earlier this year, which includes investments in the order of $10 billion between now and 2012 for the climate change programming.

Our plan provides new resources, instruments and incentives for business, industry and all levels of government to support action on climate change. It incorporates a range of measures including: encouraging the development of renewable energy and green technologies; collaborating with industry and setting an effective, fair reduction target; preserving Canadians' health and quality of life through cleaner air and greener communities; and using tax incentives and programs that range from fostering small hydro production to cleaning up brownfields.

Project green encourages the development of new environmental and energy efficient technologies and practices such as those pioneered by Alex Winch. It also uses market based approaches that will offer monetary incentives to encourage greener and cleaner industry. Together these efforts will honour our Kyoto commitment by helping Canada reduce its greenhouse gas emissions by 270 megatonnes.

These are success stories in this one riding alone. We also have in our riding a building that has a solar wall which will again reduce the energy costs from the grid. This gives the example of just one corner of our country. I presume a great deal more is happening across the country.

Industry Canada's technology support programs have supported the development of new fuel cells that we may soon see in our homes, cars and in public transit use. Indeed, this kind of commitment to energy innovation has made Canada a world leader in this important new sector.

Looking further ahead, the government is supporting companies with demonstration and early adoption of projects involving hydrogen and related technologies. This is through the h2 adopters program, and it looks to be the way of the energy future.

In addition to all that, the government is investing heavily in public transit and infrastructure. It is absolutely clear that to cut down the emissions, we need effective public transit in the country. The Government of Canada has been committed to this for a very long time. In fact, in many ways we need the partnership of our partners, both in the municipalities and in the provinces, to stop the urban sprawl that has taken place in many parts of our country.

The development of urban sprawl has not taken into consideration the need for energy efficiency in public transportation. We know some of the suburbs cul-de-sac streets are not friendly to public transit. It makes it extremely difficult to provide public transit in some of these places. It is important that we increase the density of housing, although in some places we still have not done that.

We need the partnership of our municipal and provincial governments to increase the density and to plan new communities with energy efficiency. Public transit is part of the development. Not only that, we have to take into account public buildings and institutions because it is a fantastic way to save energy. If public buildings, especially the new ones, whether they be federal, provincial or municipal, take into consideration solar energy and other energy efficiencies, we can go a long way, just like the little not for profit organization in Beaches—East York has done.

We also should be retrofitting as many public institutions as possible. I would love to see hospitals and nursing homes, as is being done by Alex Winch, retrofitted to reduce the costs of energy, overheads and public dollars. That money could then be used for health, for seniors and for other uses. We are not taking advantage of the tremendous amount of potential in this area.

Also, I believe very strongly that we have to take trucks off the highways. We have talked about the fact that the Government of Canada has invested in infrastructure since 1993 in collaboration with the Federation of Canadian Municipalities. Green energy always has been part of that component. However, we also have to look further down the road. We need to look at trucks. How many of us have been surrounded by huge trucks on the highways? Not only do they affect the environment, but they also ruin our roads. It is important to build up our railway system and put trucks on the railways. That would go a long way in cutting back on emissions.

Bill C-66 is a very important part of a much larger agenda for our government, as I have been trying to elaborate. It is the part of the agenda that enables us to meet the immediate needs of our fellow citizens who are most severely affected by rising energy prices. It is part of the agenda that enables the government to help people who face real challenges with few options for addressing them easily.

Bill C-66 would enable us to expand our programs that already have done so much to make it easier for Canadians to identify how they can save energy in their homes and then do precisely that. This is not a new set of actions. It is part of an effort to give consumers the tools to help them adapt in a marketplace where prices are rising. This is part of an effort to encourage the private sector to develop new technologies that would help reduce our dependence on ever more costly petroleum based sources of energy.

That is a sensible approach. It is a forward looking approach. It will bring real and long lasting benefits to consumers by dealing realistically with a problem that will be with us for many years to come. It is not something we can put aside and not deal with immediately.

Some statements earlier made reference to the problem of reaching the population, seniors especially, who are receiving the guaranteed income supplement. It is important to note that the Government of Canada in the last couple of years has had an aggressive campaign to reach as many, if not all, seniors who should receive the guaranteed income supplement but who are not, or who were not aware of it and had not applied for it.

In fact, the government went further. When seniors file their income tax, if they qualify for the guaranteed income supplement, they will receive in the mail an application that has already been filled out. All they have to do is sign it and send it back. In addition to that, through senior files, the renewal of the application is done. Instead of having to renew again, it is automatically done through that process. This is an example to show how important it is for us to ensure that all the seniors who qualify for the guaranteed income supplement in fact do receive it.

There are probably others who still have not heard the message. It is important to communicate in different languages. It is important to get the message across. The government has been very involved and very engaged in this area. The government has reached not 100% of those eligible, I would say, but very close to 100%.

I have spoken a great deal about many different aspects of our program, but most important is the fact that not only is it important to make sure that people who are paying extra money for gas and energy this winter are assisted, it is also important to ensure that in the long term our environment and the future of our children in fact are protected. The earth we live on needs to be protected.

I have given some examples of what is going on in my little corner of Beaches—East York. I know that there are thousands of other examples all around the country. We have mentioned Prince Edward Island with wind power and so on.

I encourage the House to support Bill C-66 because it is forward looking.

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12:15 p.m.

Bloc

Bernard Bigras Bloc Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC

Mr. Speaker, I am happy to rise in this period of questions and comments on Bill C-66, a bill which, as I remind the House, the Bloc Québécois supports in principle.

We have had a number of representations in recent weeks from people who have told us that Bill C-66 is a step in the right direction. However, there are some gaps and omissions. Two groups in particular have sent us a number of e-mails and have come to our offices.

First, there are the elderly. The hon. member is right when she states that elderly people who receive their guaranteed income supplement will be eligible for the additional benefit. There are, however, many elderly people who are not receiving the guaranteed income supplement, who do not have astronomically high incomes, and who would like to receive this additional payment.

In my riding, Mr. Jean-Paul Leblanc came to see me in my office and we spent 45 minutes discussing the gaps in this program. He said he was frustrated to find out that he would not be able to receive the payment because he was not receiving the guaranteed income supplement.

The middle class is also affected. In many, many cases, this middle class and these elderly people live in underprivileged areas of Montreal and use oil for heating. There are no provisions to encourage the conversion of our systems from oil to electricity, particularly in Quebec, which would have the effect of reducing greenhouse gas emissions.

I would like to ask the hon. member the following question. How can she claim, today in this House, that Bill C-66 will help the elderly, when she knows full well that some of them do not have high incomes, and do not receive the guaranteed income supplement? They will, in short, be penalized by Bill C-66.

I would also like to ask the hon. member what she would say to the fact that, in many cases, the list of people eligible for the guaranteed income supplement is inaccurate. The campaigns conducted by the Bloc Québécois are intended to ensure that more and more elderly people receive the supplement and are eligible for benefits.