Debates of March 21st, 2005

Air-India

[Stephen Harper, Conservative, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, 20 years ago 331 Canadians lost their lives when an Air-India plane was bombed by terrorists. Serious questions have always been raised about the investigation. Last week's court decision may mean that justice may never be done.

Should that be the case, is the government prepared to commit to a full public inquiry so the families of the Air-India tragedy will get the justice and some of the answers they deserve?

[Anne McLellan, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness]

Mr. Speaker, I think I speak on behalf of everyone in this House when I say that on behalf of all Canadians we extend our deepest sympathy to the families of the victims of the Air-India terrorist incident.

Many lessons can be learned from that terrible tragedy. One is of course that Canada and Canadians are not immune from the horror that is the modern face of terrorism.

In the 20 years since, I think we have learned a lot. In fact, we only have to look at the way the government today works with agencies like CSIS and the RCMP to try and protect the collective security of Canadians.

[Stephen Harper, Conservative, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, Canadians are entitled to more than kind sentiments. They are entitled to some answers and some action.

These families deserve better than a bit of dithering. For 20 years they have been waiting for closure. They have been denied justice.

I want the government to commit unequivocally, clearly and without hesitation that if there is no successful prosecution there will be a full public inquiry.

[Anne McLellan, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness]

Mr. Speaker, it is not clear 20 years later how much can be learned from an inquiry. I think we need to focus on the considerable process that has taken place in the past 20 years.

We should not forget that there has been a government report on aviation security. We now have new airport safety initiatives. There has been the settlement of a civil suit. There has been a SIRC review of the conduct and actions of CSIS. There has been the conviction of Inderjit Singh Reyat and obviously--

[The Speaker]

The hon. Leader of the Opposition.

Sponsorship Program

[Stephen Harper, Conservative, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, I would leave it to the families to worry about whether they will not get answers from an inquiry. I think the government is worried that we will get answers from an inquiry.

Changing subjects, the testimony before the Gomery commission is proving what we have known for a long time. The taxpayers' money ended up in the pockets of the Liberal Party and its organizers. Now the government is claiming to be going after the agencies for the highjacked funds, but it is not going after the Liberal Party to get back the dirty money.

Why has the government not taken action against the Liberal Party of Canada?

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, the fact is that 10 days ago the government launched action seeking recovery of funds for $41 million.

When we did that, let us be clear, the Leader of the Opposition attacked the government. The leader of the Conservative Party pretends to stand up for justice and for the taxpayer but when the government launches action to stand up for justice and for the taxpayer, the leader of the Conservative Party attacks the government.

He cannot have it both ways. Unless he is the patron saint of hypocrisy, he should support the government's efforts to seek cost recovery and to do the right thing on behalf of Canadians.

[Peter MacKay, Conservative, Central Nova, NS]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister's favourite shield has no credibility on this or anything else.

Last week Canadians heard that Liberal friendly ad firm Groupaction had funneled $20,000 to the Liberal Party through a personal company of an employee. Now this sneaky Liberal Groupaction was deliberately meant to cover the tracks of this scheme.

The Prime Minister and the Minister of Transport both said that all dirty money would be immediately returned. It is now clear that the Liberal Party did receive dirty money. Eleven advertising agencies are being sued by the federal government.

When, on behalf of taxpayers, will the government sue the Liberal Party of Canada to recover this dirty money?

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, with questions like that I am surprised that his leader does not kick the chair right out from under him.

The transport minister, the Prime Minister and the government have been absolutely clear that if any funds are found to have been partisan funds that were reached through ill-gotten activities we will be returning those funds to the government.

However we must allow Justice Gomery to do his work. Beyond that, we also must ensure that current legal actions are concluded appropriately so that we act with the facts fully in hand.

[Peter MacKay, Conservative, Central Nova, NS]

Mr. Speaker, the only thing the minister knows about is musical chairs.

In addition to the camouflaging of dirty donations, a $50,000 slush fund was created and hidden by Groupaction. The secret slush fund was used to pay political assistants and make contributions to Liberal campaigns, including that of the Prime Minister. Top Liberal organizer, Jacques Corriveau, was paid about $5 million in sponsorship subcontracts as part of a series of Groupaction transactions.

The evidence mounts daily at the Gomery commission that the Liberal Party received kickbacks from ad agencies involved in the sponsorship program.

I ask again, when will the government show some guts and start a government action to recover the money from the Liberal Party of Canada?

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, the government and the Prime Minister have already demonstrated guts by establishing the Gomery commission, by cooperating fully with Justice Gomery's work, by providing the information required so that Justice Gomery can continue his work and by providing adequate funding so that Justice Gomery can do his work.

We are not afraid of the truth. In fact, we are working with Justice Gomery and supporting Justice Gomery in his work because we do have the guts to do the right thing. However we will not be able to take the kind of action to which the hon. member is referring until Justice Gomery has completed his work.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier, QC]

Mr. Speaker, every day, more is coming out in the Gomery commission about how much the Liberals profited from the dirty sponsorship money. Yet the Liberal Party is still refusing to pay back the public funds that have ended up in the Liberal Party coffers or the pockets of the Liberal organizers.

Will the Prime Minister take the necessary steps to recover the dirty sponsorship money? These are public funds and must go back to the public treasury.

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, the government has made itself clear. If party funds are found to have been given to individuals or agencies involved in activities of this type, the government will be reimbursed without fail.

It will not be possible for us to take that kind of action unless we allow Justice Gomery to complete his work and unless we allow the current legal actions to conclude appropriately, such that we can act knowing full well the truth and can act based on that solid evidence of the truth, instead of acting on the shifting sands of daily testimony as the opposition is wont to do.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier, QC]

Mr. Speaker, it is obvious that the agencies got too much money for the work they did, or did not do. It is so obvious that the government has decided to take action against them without waiting for the Gomery commission to end. There is equally clear evidence as far as the Liberal Party's dirty money is concerned, but the government is insisting on waiting until the end of the inquiry.

The Prime Minister has made the commitment that everyone involved in the scandal will face the consequences of their actions. How then does he explain his government's continued refusal to require the Liberal Party to pay back the public funds, give back the dirty money?

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, the government has launched legal action. That legal action has commenced but has not concluded. Until it goes through the full course of the law we will not have the result. We will not know the result until the courts make their final decisions.

We cannot act unilaterally without respecting the independence of the judicial system.

[Michel Guimond, Bloc, Charlevoix—Montmorency, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Gomery commission has revealed how the sponsorship scandal encouraged the payment of $70,000 by Jean Brault of Groupaction to Liberal Party organizers and the Liberal Party itself.

Will the Prime Minister admit that it is his responsibility to ensure the government takes immediate steps to recover the sponsorship money paid to the Liberal Party of Canada?

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, once again, the Prime Minister, the transport minister and the government have been completely clear that if partisan funds were received from firms or individuals implicated in these affairs, that those funds will be returned to the Canadian taxpayer.

The only reason that hon. member or others can comment on daily testimony at the Gomery inquiry is that our Prime Minister had the guts to do the right thing and to take a real risk to get to the bottom of this issue for the benefit of all Canadians. They should be commending our Prime Minister and not attacking him for that.

[Michel Guimond, Bloc, Charlevoix—Montmorency, QC]

Mr. Speaker, that is a double standard. When the government was informed that too much money had been paid to the advertising agencies, it began legal proceedings to recover the money. In the case of sponsorship money paid to the Liberal Party, what the Minister of Transport called “dirty money”, the Prime Minister should act promptly.

Does he realize that, if he does not act right away, he will be guilty of conflict of interest, since everyone will understand that the decision has been made by the leader of the Liberal Party rather than the leader of the government?

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, once again, the government has launched action to go after $41 million of funds. That action has not concluded. Until we allow the justice system to do its work, and for the due court system to be concluded appropriately, we will not have the evidence required to move forward on further actions.

Let me be clear. The government has been totally up front on this. We will act appropriately when we have all the facts. However, we cannot act without the facts. We cannot act on the shifting sands of daily testimony, as the hon. member and the members opposite are doing.

[Jack Layton, NDP, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my question concerns the dirty sponsorship money, because that dirty money is now in the pockets of the Liberal Party of Canada. Last week a direct link to the Liberal Party was established.

Since there is enough evidence to launch proceedings against individuals, businesses and agencies, when will the government take the Liberal Party to court?

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Minister of Public Works and Government Services]

Mr. Speaker, the government, in the very beginning of this whole issue, established that Mr. Gauthier would do the work on cost recovery. That would operate as a parallel process alongside the establishment of Justice Gomery's work. This is not a surprise. We have been clear, open and transparent in this process. We will continue to be because we are standing up for the taxpayer. We are doing the right thing on behalf of all Canadians by going after the truth and by going after these funds.

Air-India

[Jack Layton, NDP, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Mr. Speaker, if the government has enough facts to pursue the money through the courts when it comes to private corporations, private individuals and agencies, then it has enough facts to pursue the Liberal Party of Canada in the courts and it is time we got on with it.

To hear the hon. member speak of openness and transparency, it is absolutely vital that we have an open and transparent process to find out what happened in the Air-India crash. The families have a right to know. The communities have a right to know.

If we take a look at what the government is doing with the Maher Arar inquiry, we see black-lined documents and that is about it. We are getting blocked at every step of the way.

Will the government ensure an open and transparent process to get to the bottom of the crisis that is the Air-India crash?

[Anne McLellan, Liberal, Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness]

Mr. Speaker, as I have said, obviously the Air-India situation is a horrible example of the modern face of terrorism. In fact, my officials and I have offered to meet with the families to talk about the questions that may remain unanswered.

We need to take the opportunity to review the processes that have been in place, the answers that have been provided, determine the questions that remain to be answered, and then think about the best way by which we can go--

[The Speaker]

The hon. member for Edmonton—Strathcona.

Sponsorship Program

[Rahim Jaffer, Conservative, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Mr. Speaker, during the last three elections, Liberal ministers in this House accepted funds, materials and hirelings paid for by sponsorships. The Minister of Public Works and Government Services is turning honest people into cynics. With the help of a lawyer, Mr. Gauthier, who has earned over $1 million in the past year, the minister continues to try to cover his tracks.

When will the government demand that those who accepted this dirty money pay it back to the Canadian taxpayers?