House of Commons Hansard #80 of the 38th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was billion.

Topics

Employment Insurance ActPrivate Members' Business

7:35 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

All those in favour of the motion will please say yea.

Employment Insurance ActPrivate Members' Business

7:35 p.m.

Some hon. members

Yea.

Employment Insurance ActPrivate Members' Business

7:35 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

All those opposed will please say nay.

Employment Insurance ActPrivate Members' Business

7:35 p.m.

Some hon. members

Nay.

Employment Insurance ActPrivate Members' Business

7:35 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

In my opinion, the nays have it.

And more than five members having risen:

Employment Insurance ActPrivate Members' Business

7:35 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

Pursuant to Standing Order 93, the division stands deferred until Wednesday, April 13, 2005, immediately before the time provided for private members' business.

Employment Insurance ActPrivate Members' Business

7:35 p.m.

Liberal

Peter Adams Liberal Peterborough, ON

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. I think if you were to seek it you would find unanimous consent to change your last order so that the vote would be held at 3 o`clock tomorrow, Wednesday, following question period.

Employment Insurance ActPrivate Members' Business

7:35 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

Is that agreed?

Employment Insurance ActPrivate Members' Business

7:35 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

Employment Insurance ActPrivate Members' Business

7:35 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

Pursuant to order made Thursday, April 7, the House shall now resolve itself into committee of the whole to consider Government Business No. 10. I do now leave the Chair for the House to go into committee of the whole.

(House in committee of the whole on Government Business No. 10, Mr. Strahl in the chair)

RCMP and Law Enforcement in CanadaGovernment Orders

7:35 p.m.

Hamilton East—Stoney Creek Ontario

Liberal

Tony Valeri LiberalLeader of the Government in the House of Commons

moved:

That this committee take note of the RCMP and law enforcement in Canada.

RCMP and Law Enforcement in CanadaGovernment Orders

7:35 p.m.

Edmonton Centre Alberta

Liberal

Anne McLellan LiberalDeputy Prime Minister and Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness

Mr. Chair, it is my pleasure to open the debate this evening on the subject of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police and, more generally, law enforcement in Canada. The debate is an important opportunity for members of the House to recognize and reflect on the role of this vibrant and vital Canadian institution.

As we all know, in recent weeks the members of this proud organization have also been in our hearts. This is because the deaths of four young officers, Constable Anthony Gordon, Constable Lionide Johnston, Constable Brock Myrol and Constable Peter Schiemann, barely one month ago, were a terrible loss. We continue to remember their families as they deal with their grief and try to begin life anew without their sons, brothers and husbands.

The events that took place in Mayerthorpe are a cruel reminder of how much courage and sacrifice is required of the men and women in our national police force. RCMP officers are hard at work every day, often under dangerous circumstances, to ensure that our communities are safer places to live and work.

If we know peace, order and good government in this country, it is thanks to the men and women of our national police service who step forward to defend it. They preserve our civil society, our rights and, as their motto says, they “Maintiens le Droit”.

It is therefore telling, and not surprising, that Canadians mourned with the families of the four dead officers. An entire nation was affected as if we had lost members of our own family. When such losses take place, it is natural to recall the kindnesses, achievements and personalities of those people we have lost. It is worth asking how it is that the loss of these four young men, strangers to all but a handful of Canadians, provoked these same feelings in so many of us from coast to coast to coast.

The answer is quite simple. They were Mounties, members of the force. Mounties who gave their lives in the service of Canada and Canadians.

It takes more than a recognizable uniform to earn and keep the trust and respect that has endured for more than a century in relation to the force. This is why this evening I expect that my colleagues will highlight different elements of our national police service.

The proud beginnings of this institution begin with the Northwest Mounted Police and the part it played in the opening up of the west.

Today, the RCMP has earned an international reputation as one of the finest police services in the world. The RCMP has not simply evolved. It has become a model of what a national police service can and should be in the 21st century.

To pursue its public safety and security strategy, the government has increased total budget appropriations to the RCMP from $1.8 billion in 1998-99 to approximately $2.9 billion in the most recent budget.

As I expect my colleagues this evening will say, on our side of the House, we have today a national police organization whose strong strategic focus allows its members to meet the numerous demands we place upon them, demands which range from providing police services to hundreds of communities across Canada to their vital contribution to the fight against international terrorism.

We also want to take note of how the RCMP is addressing these strategic priorities. For example, its success in forging new enforcement partnerships and networks to combat organized crime and reduce the threat of groups adversely affecting our society and economy; the service's innovative approach to meeting the threat of terrorism, supporting an integrated, multi-partner response and a commitment to border integrity and continental security; the force's commitment to international peacekeeping, enhancing global security by sharing intelligence and cooperating with organizations to fight crime whenever and wherever it appears; its work with community partners across Canada to build a relationship with Canada's youth and its efforts to prevent their involvement in crime as victims or perpetrators; and, finally, the important contribution the RCMP makes to policing in first nations, Metis and Inuit communities across Canada.

We have invested in these strategic areas to help the force meet public safety objectives. In the recent budget, we invested another $222 million in marine security which will in part support RCMP operations on the Great Lakes and the St. Lawrence Seaway.

Budget 2000 announced $584 million over three years to the force to strengthen its capacity to address threats to public safety.

Budget 2001 announced $1.6 billion for national security efforts, a significant portion of which has gone to the RCMP for, among other things, expansion of integrated border enforcement teams from 5 to 15 regions; 23 teams in 15 regions across the country.

We have created integrated national security enforcement teams, INSET, in major Canadian cities. Funding has been directed to technology improvements, such as enhancing information systems, real time identifiers, improvements to forensic laboratory services, and counterfeit examination for travel documents.

Finally, we have provided an additional $34 million to expand the RCMP's National Child Exploitation Coordination Centre which play such an important role in the national fight against those who would harm the most vulnerable in our society.

As parliamentarians and Canadians, we are indebted to these four young men who lost their lives serving their country in Mayerthorpe.

Indeed, we owe a debt to all, especially those four young men who lost their lives, but we owe a debt to all who have devoted themselves to the service of Canada as members of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, and to the more than 23,000 members of the force who serve Canada and Canadians today.

We cannot begin to pay that debt in the short time that we have allotted to debate this evening, but I believe we would do well to remind ourselves of the service provided by our national police force. It is our duty to recognize the valued role that men and women of the RCMP play in law enforcement in Canada and around the world.

RCMP and Law Enforcement in CanadaGovernment Orders

7:45 p.m.

Conservative

Bill Casey Conservative North Nova, NS

Mr. Chair, we all agree that we owe a great debt to the RCMP who lost their lives. We also owe a great to the RCMP officers who still serve and we have an obligation to them to give them the tools and resources to work.

My riding is served by the Northeast Nova drug section. My riding is also a rural area, something like Mayerthorpe. It experiences the same risks and challenges. Recently, there were rumours that the Northeast Nova drug section was going to be disbanded. The community came together and fought against that, and at least the decision has been delayed. I would hope that the minister tonight would confirm that this decision will be reversed.

In the exploration to find out what the problem was, we discovered that the RCMP in Nova Scotia has a shortage of officers. The problem is budget; it does not have the budget. It does not have enough money to hire enough RCMP officers to do the minimum level of law enforcement in Nova Scotia.

The minister will know this because I have brought this to her attention several times. She has acknowledged that, but we need a commitment from the minister, both on the Northeast Nova drug section and also for the whole province of Nova Scotia. The RCMP must be given the absolute minimum level of RCMP officers to provide at least the minimum level of law enforcement.

Again, we owe a debt not only to those fallen officers, but we owe a debt to the RCMP officers who are there now. We must provide them with the tools, the resources, and the people to work with. If the minister could provide that assurance to Nova Scotia, we would be very grateful.

RCMP and Law Enforcement in CanadaGovernment Orders

7:45 p.m.

Liberal

Anne McLellan Liberal Edmonton Centre, AB

Mr. Chair, indeed, the hon. member has raised this matter with me. I have asked both my department and officers of the force to follow up with him directly in relation to a specific situation.

There is absolutely no question that, especially in this modern world of high tech policing, resources are absolutely key for the force to do what it needs to do to protect Canadians here and protect people globally, to do our share around the world, be it the fight against international crime or international terrorism.

We have seen over the past five years a remarkable increase in the budget of the force from some $1.8 billion in 1998-99 to now some $2.9 billion, over a billion dollar increase in the past five years. I believe that we have acknowledged the new demands on the force and the complexities of modern policing.

Having said that, I have asked that the force follow up directly with the hon. member. Clearly, he and I have talked about this. Obviously, the drug lab situation is, as he explains it, a matter of federal policing. The RCMP polices in 8 out of 10 provinces under contract and to increase resources as it relates to contract policing requires a request from the provincial solicitor general or attorney general, whoever may be responsible for the force in a given province.

We have seen recently in Alberta the solicitor general indicating that he would like to see an increase in the force of 123 members. That request comes from the province and then we work on that request together.

RCMP and Law Enforcement in CanadaGovernment Orders

7:50 p.m.

Bloc

Robert Vincent Bloc Shefford, QC

Mr. Chair, the minister tells us that, with the RCMP, we can count on a safer working environment. She speaks of priority and strategy, threats from other countries and from terrorism, and what the RCMP officers do in the community.

All of these things sound good in the House, but we must not lose sight of the fact that the minister has closed nine RCMP detachments in Quebec. That is important because these nine are close to the border, and as a result the border is no longer secure. We have evidence to prove that. Three committees of the Standing Committee on Justice, Human Rights, Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness have addressed the question of whether these detachments ought really to be closed or whether they should be kept open. The committee's response was as follows:

That the Committee recommend to the government that the RCMP immediately stop reassigning personnel in Quebec in order to keep the nine detachments in Quebec open, and that it maintain a critical mass of eight officers per detachment.

That seems clear to me. Why does the minister not recognize this? She ought to acknowledge that the Standing Committee on Justice, Human Rights, Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness has made some unanimous recommendations. The minister feels that the RCMP commissioner is right and that the detachments should be closed. In three weeks, 17 vehicles sailed through the Lacolle border post, one of them a bus. The Lacolle detachment is, moreover, the one with the most officers on duty. There are 50 officers on rotation in the Lacolle area.

Why are these small detachments being closed. Why are there not more staff? Why is there no longer anyone to protect the elderly and everyone in each riding where detachments have been closed down?

RCMP and Law Enforcement in CanadaGovernment Orders

7:50 p.m.

Liberal

Anne McLellan Liberal Edmonton Centre, AB

Mr. Chair, as I have said many times in this House before, I do not involve myself with the operational details of the force. In fact, I would hope that nobody in this House would suggest that any government, of whatever stripe, should involve itself in the operational details of the national police force. There are too many shocking examples of other countries around the world where police forces end up being directed by governments or political parties, and it is not a democracy.

As far as I am concerned, the RCMP Act is clear. The administration and day to day operations of the force are left up to the commissioner and his officers, his assistant commissioners and others across the country.

The redeployment took place after a careful consideration of the strategic needs of the RCMP and the province of Quebec as a national police force. The Sûreté du Québec does local policing in the province of Quebec as does the Ontario Provincial Police in Ontario. The presence of the RCMP in Quebec is only as it relates to national policing activities. Those, for example, include the fight against organized crime and issues around the border.

In fact, there are no fewer RCMP officers today in the province of Quebec. There are exactly the same number, but they have been redeployed, after discussions with the Sûreté du Québec and others, to ensure that the force is deploying those officers in a way that makes strategic sense.

We live in a world now where modern policing requires the strategic deployment of officers. It is not always having an officer in a car to do effective policing, especially if it is the only national police force in a province, not the local police force.

RCMP and Law Enforcement in CanadaGovernment Orders

7:55 p.m.

NDP

Joe Comartin NDP Windsor—Tecumseh, ON

Mr. Chair, as I am sure the minister and all of us can appreciate, the country was truly shocked by the murders in Mayerthorpe. I recall the discussion quite frankly that we had at the justice committee shortly after the incident. Not wanting to be seen as interfering in any way with the internal investigation that would go on in those circumstances, and I think our committee probably still feels that way, I would like to ask the minister a question.

I believe the country wants to have some understanding of how something like this could happen. We have not had that many RCMP officers killed at one time for over 100 years, arguably never, because any other time where there were multiple deaths of RCMP officers, it was more in a military action than in a police action.

Is there, in some fashion, going to be disclosure to the general Canadian community as to how the investigation has gone, an explanation as to how something like this could happen, and I suppose recommendations or a policy put in place to ensure that it never happens again?

RCMP and Law Enforcement in CanadaGovernment Orders

7:55 p.m.

Liberal

Anne McLellan Liberal Edmonton Centre, AB

Mr. Chair, the hon. member raises a very important point. Indeed, the communities, the families, the friends, the entire country want to know what happened that day at that farm.

There is an RCMP investigation. Again, that investigation is undertaken by the force. The details as they become available are being released to the public. I have no doubt that when the investigation is concluded, it absolutely will be made public. Right now we are getting pieces of it as the RCMP learns more, but that will all I am sure be put together in a comprehensive way to provide Canadians with as much information and insight as possible as to what happened that day.

The province of Alberta is conducting a fatalities inquiry. That too will be made public.

In every one of these situations there is an internal investigation where the force looks within itself to determine what happened, why it happened and whether there are recommendations that can be made in relation to the operation of the force, deployment of officers, equipment issues, things like that, which could improve the overall safety of the officers. All of this will be made public as the various investigations, fatality inquiry and other things are completed.

It is fair to say at this point that the investigation itself has not produced a complete factual record and the RCMP have identified pretty clearly some of the key questions to which it is still looking for answers.

RCMP and Law Enforcement in CanadaGovernment Orders

7:55 p.m.

Conservative

Rob Merrifield Conservative Yellowhead, AB

Mr. Chair, it is a pleasure for me to stand and lend my voice to the debate this evening. I thank the party House leaders for granting my request for this debate. It is very important that we discuss and take note of this specific incident with regard RCMP and law enforcement in the country. It is critical. This is the worst incident we have seen of RCMP members losing their lives, or members of associate forces, since 1885.

We pause and need to take note of what we do this evening within these walls with regard to the four slain officers in Mayerthorpe in my riding and very near my residence, Anthony Gordon, Leo Johnston, Brock Myrol and Peter Schiemann. I want to thank Canadians for the outpouring of support for the families, friends, colleagues and the four young men.

This is a very dangerous business. These men knew it and accepted it. Thousands of men and women across the country put their lives on the line each day. We need to remember that. They do it by dedicating themselves to the service of the country. There has been a change.

I will be splitting my time, Mr. Speaker, with the member for Central Nova, as was requested earlier.

I want to talk about the change that we have seen in law enforcement and what police officers are faced with on the streets. When I attended many of the memorial services for these young fallen officers, I spoke to police forces. They told me that not only were they walking into dangerous incidents, they were becoming targets of criminals. When criminals lose respect for law enforcers and lose the fear of the criminal justice system, then we are in a very dangerous situation.

We have an opportunity tonight to come into the House as legislators and make laws for the country. We can take an incident like this and say that it was one crazy individual committing an unbelievably heinous crime or we can pause and ask ourselves what have we learned and what should we change so this will not repeat itself time and time again. That is what is challenging every man and woman in the House and that is what we should be taking note of today. Not only should we be taking note of it federally, but also provincially. We have responsibilities in both jurisdictions.

I would like to talk about this killer for a minute. This individual had 30 criminal charges over three decades and 8 convictions. Some of them involved firearms, break and entry, lawful confinement, death threats, possession of stolen property and assault. The individual should not have been on the streets. It is one of the most horrendous stories one will hear when talking to residents of the Mayerthorpe area. They will say how this man intimidated a community, police officers and families. He had no business being out of the court system.

The courts failed not only these officers and the community but the country, and we have to do something about it. This incident draws attention to not only the lax court system but also the lax way that we deal with drugs. It draws attention to a gun registry that absolutely does not work, never will work and did not protect the community in this case. It never would even if we could comply with it. It is a waste of $2 billion up to this point.

This case talks about sex abuse crimes. We have a situation where Carla Homolka, one of the worst we have seen, is about to be released into our community. We have a sex offenders list and she will not be on it. We have to understand what is going on in our weak court system.

I have laid out the issues, but before my time expires, I want to talk specifically about some of the things about which one family talked. The family's words are much more powerful than a politician's. Brock Myrol's mother said:

It is time that our government take a stand on evil...

It is time to take our liberal-minded attitude to task.

Prime Minister, we depend on you and expect you to change the laws and give the courts real power. Give the police real power. Take the power away from the Supreme Court and give it back to the House of Commons.

Our country is hurting. We lost four dedicated citizens who were willing to do something about it.

I have another letter that was written by a family member yesterday. She said:

It is not acceptable that it has taken a tragedy of such immense proportion... to hopefully have drawn the public's attention to the value of, and the dangers faced by, law enforcement/and peace officers daily...due to shortages of members and resources.

But mostly because of the failure and inadequacies of the justice system in not implementing the laws we already have.

We have an opportunity this evening to do something. We can either walk away from this incident or do something about it. I implore the House to take note of the incident and do something about it.

RCMP and Law Enforcement in CanadaGovernment Orders

8:05 p.m.

Conservative

Bill Casey Conservative North Nova, NS

Mr. Chair, I want to thank the member for creating the opportunity for us to talk about this issue because it affects all of us in Canada.

The risks and dangers that RCMP officers face were brought to my attention about eight weeks ago when a man came into my office in Truro, Nova Scotia extremely irate. He was specifically mad at the RCMP. He became more angry during our discussions, and at one point he said, “Don't worry about the RCMP Mr. Government Man because I'm going to shoot them”. He was not being sarcastic nor was he being funny. He is a dangerous man. He sounded similar to the man who did the awful atrocities at Mayerthorpe.

Could the member give us some ideas about what we could do as legislators to give RCMP officers the protection they need from people like this? What could the RCMP do? How can we work with the RCMP to help it in its dangerous job?

RCMP and Law Enforcement in CanadaGovernment Orders

8:05 p.m.

Conservative

Rob Merrifield Conservative Yellowhead, AB

Mr. Chair, I was talking to the mother of one of the fallen officers just two days ago. She explained to me that her son was not supposed to be on duty at the time of this killing, but was called in because of the lack of RCMP officers in the Mayerthorpe detachment.

That is not new to rural Alberta. That is not new to rural areas right across the country from coast to coast. That is exactly what is happening. Not only do we not have enough RCMP officers, but they do not have enough of the resources they need to do their job. That absolutely has to change.

It is frustrating to see individuals attacking front line RCMP officers. The Mayerthorpe detachment has a list of individuals who are considered dangerous. In fact, every police force across Canada has a list of known criminals. The incident that happened in Mayerthorpe could happen in every one of our 308 ridings.

If this is not something of which the House of Commons and in fact the whole of Canada needs to take note, then we are asking to have this incident repeated again. We dare not let that happen or these officers will have died in vain.

RCMP and Law Enforcement in CanadaGovernment Orders

8:05 p.m.

Conservative

Peter MacKay Conservative Central Nova, NS

Mr. Chair, I as well would like to commend my colleague from Yellowhead for the incredible work that he has done not only in initiating this debate, but also in supporting the RCMP officers, their families and bringing this issue to the forefront as a priority for all Canadians.

In his remarks, the member touched on the resource issue, as did my colleague from Nova Scotia. There is a need to ensure that there are proper resources, that there is the necessary legislative support, that there are sufficient officers, sufficient support staff, sufficient technological resources. There is an increasing complexity in the job of an RCMP officer, of any peace officer in this day and age, in the time and effort it takes to draft warrants, to produce evidence, to go to court and prepare witnesses. It is a very taxing and extremely complex occupation.

As was highlighted by my colleague, this is not to mention the implicit danger every day when an officer, a man or a woman, gets up, puts on the uniform and walks out the door and responds to calls. More than anything else it is the responsibility of the government to ensure that the necessary resources are there to ensure that there are sufficient officers on the front lines.

We have seen the withdrawal of the RCMP from rural Canada. In particular, in parts of my province and parts of my colleague's province of Alberta, the outer areas of Canada, detachments have closed. As was referred to by my colleague from Quebec, there has been a withdrawal of access to these officers from the communities that need their protection.

Does my colleague have any thoughts on this issue? Rural Canada in particular seems to be the recipient of the cuts. The minister who was here momentarily referenced the forensic laboratory in Edmonton. The closure of the forensic laboratory slows down the process. In some cases it jeopardizes the evidence that has to be produced in court to secure convictions.

Ensuring that convictions, ensuring that individuals who are labelled as dangerous, those who have been sentenced and placed on probation, ensuring that all those conditions are enforced comes down to person power. The RCMP, our police first and foremost, are those first responders. Those individuals put themselves in harm's way holding people accountable, enforcing the law.

I suggest that there is no greater task and responsibility of the government than to ensure that those men and women are in place and are properly resourced.

RCMP and Law Enforcement in CanadaGovernment Orders

8:10 p.m.

Conservative

Rob Merrifield Conservative Yellowhead, AB

Mr. Chair, the member is absolutely right that the RCMP officers are not resourced properly. Why is that? We have a government that has neglected our criminal justice system and law enforcement in this country for a decade or more.

I will mention that the one group of individuals that the weak law enforcement in rural areas and particularly in my riding is not lost on is the criminals. We are seeing many grow ops and a massive drug problem with marijuana. We are seeing a tremendous problem with methamphetamine.

If members do not think that this country had better take note of what is actually happening with crystal methamphetamine, then they do not understand exactly what is happening, particularly in the rural areas. Out of sight, out of mind is the idea behind a lot of criminals. They understand they can get away with a tremendous amount when the law enforcement officers are stretched to the max and cannot do the job that needs to be done. We need to push back against this criminal element that is coming at us with a vengeance.

I have been a member of Parliament since 2000 and drug use has increased unbelievably. It is not because of a lack of political will in my riding. Communities have joined arms. Social services, RCMP, the educational system and the health care system have joined together. We need to hire more police. Actually we need to hire more communications people and get into the schools.

We are still losing the battle on the crystal methamphetamine problem. There is a serious problem not only with crystal meth, but when these people get into court, the courts turn them back into the community. That has to stop if we are to save this country from what will be a tremendously serious problem in the future.

RCMP and Law Enforcement in CanadaGovernment Orders

8:10 p.m.

Conservative

Peter MacKay Conservative Central Nova, NS

Mr. Chair, I too am very honoured to take part in this debate. I must begin by similarly expressing condolences and heartfelt support for the families of Anthony Gordon, Leo Johnston, Brock Myrol and Peter Schiemann, whose names will be engraved on the peace officers memorial behind Centre Block on the last Sunday in September this year. Sadly too many officers' names adorn those memorial plaques.

As was expressed so eloquently by my colleague, the issue now becomes what can we do to ensure that such terrible incidents as we witnessed Mayerthorpe do not happen again. Those Mayerthorpe murders stand as a serious wake-up call to all Canadians.

The entire RCMP family, those who wear the red serge, assembled and were shocked more than anyone that such a thing could happen. There will be a fatality inquiry. There will be some answers forthcoming for the family.

In this place as legislators, what actions can we take? What are the initiatives that we can commence? My colleague is to be commended again for raising the issue and allowing this debate to take place so that we can have this serious discussion.

The shortfall of resources first and foremost has to be noted. In a report that came from internal RCMP documents that were disclosed as a result of the Arar inquiry, a senior officer speaks of realignment, which is interesting language that was used by the minister herself. Realignment really means withdrawal from rural parts of the country and a concentration in perhaps bigger areas.

I want to quote from that report. The officer, speaking from the RCMP anti-terrorist financing group stated, “If the human resource issue is not addressed we run the risk of jeopardizing the safety of Canada and its citizens as well as potentially embarrassing the Government of Canada and the RCMP on the domestic and international levels”. The document goes on to talk about that shortfall and the ramifications.

The government has a lot to be held to account for in the decisions that it has taken. It really comes down to priorities. Although this is a very serious debate and some might try to label it as a partisan one, we in the opposition have a duty. We owe it to Canadians to point out the inadequacies and the decisions that the government has taken that are affecting the lives of Canadians and the life and limb of RCMP officers and others who are tasked with enforcing the law. The priority decisions to take money out of budgets at a critical time, to move officers away from our border for example, which has been pointed out quite recently in reports, jeopardizing the safety of Canadians have to be addressed.

We know it is a priority policy decision taken by the government to withdraw officers, just as it is a policy decision to continue to fund the gun registry that does not adequately protect Canadians, does not give value added to the task of protecting Canadians. The decision to close forensic laboratories delays the disclosure of evidence and delays the production of evidence that is to be used in courtrooms, which oftentimes unnecessarily leads to acquittals.

There are also the issues around the early release of prisoners, as my colleague referred to. Some police in my area back in Pictou County, Nova Scotia call it the catch and release program. They wear little fish hooks with the barbs taken off. This is their feeling of frustration.

The RCMP and all those in the law enforcement community are looking for leadership from the government. They are looking for the necessary tools, resources and technology to do the job that is asked of them. It is life and death for them and for those communities that they protect.

They do so much good work outside their normal policing duties. They are the face of our community. I think of people like John Kennedy who has a wonderful innovative program, Adopt a Library, in Pictou County, Nova Scotia and hopes to make it national. It is meant to encourage literacy. Our police participate in so many levels of society.

The RCMP are such a source of pride for Canadians. It is a symbol of this country, a symbol of virtue, integrity and all that is good about Canada.

We cannot fail them in this hour. We cannot fail them in the wake of the tragedy that took place and which took the lives of those four young dedicated men in their prime.

This important debate hopefully will bring further attention to this issue. We in the Conservative Party hope to move the ball forward on this file. We hope, more importantly, to be in government one day very soon, when we will be able to address these issues in a more substantial way.

RCMP and Law Enforcement in CanadaGovernment Orders

8:15 p.m.

Conservative

Rob Merrifield Conservative Yellowhead, AB

Mr. Chair, I have a question with regard to our criminal justice system.

I am sure my colleague is fully aware of this but for the information of the rest of the House, in British Columbia last year one in seven grow operators were convicted. The police go in, raid a place and find a grow op. Most of these grow ops are anywhere from $200,000 to $500,000 operations, so they are not small. They are a very large part of organized crime. Only one in seven in British Columbia did any time at all. Only one in Calgary in my province of Alberta did any time at all. Of those who did time, 50% did less than a year.

Is the criminal very nervous about being caught? I do not think so. We as a society are saying to the criminal that it is okay to break the law, that we are not going to apply the law. We plea bargain in most of these cases.

I am wondering what my colleague thinks of minimum sentencing. When I asked the question the other day, the Minister of Justice said that it does not work. Well, what we have is not working. I wonder if my colleague would answer that.