Debates of May 19th, 2005

An Act to authorize the Minister of Finance to make Certain Payments

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

(Motion agreed to)

[Roy Cullen, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness]

Mr. Speaker, I think I will be talking to my friend Bernie Collins. Maybe he could get into the next election because I am sure that he understands budgetary matters a lot better than the member opposite.

Of course, we all know what happened. The Conservative Party initially supported our budget because it is a good budget. However, as evidence came out at the Gomery inquiry day by day, little bits here and little bits there, evidence presented by people who are under investigation, people who have been charged, contradictory evidence, evidence refuted the very next day, the Conservatives saw the polls and thought, wow, this is looking good for our party so maybe we will not support the budget after all.

Our government understands that Canadians do not want an election now and that is when we built an alliance with the NDP. We built on the seven great budgets preceding an eighth consecutive budgetary surplus; 3% annual growth almost every year; low unemployment, lower than 7%, more to do but almost setting a record; and low interest rates. Canadians can now buy homes where they otherwise could not. We paid down debt such that it is down to less than 40% debt to GDP from a high of 75% or thereabouts. That is saving Canadians every year over $3 billion in debt service payments. We delivered the largest tax cut in Canadian history in the year 2000 of $100 billion.

With all respect, I do not think the member for Souris—Moose Mountain actually has flipped through the budget because I think he has missed a lot of very important points, including the fact that this budget is the eighth consecutive surplus budget and it far exceeds the performance of all the industrialized countries in the world.

I wonder if the member would commit to the House today to go back and actually read the budget and then come back and revise his comments accordingly.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Mr. Speaker, I can assure the hon. member I will be back. Bernie Collins will not be back and neither will that member. What is more, I would ask the member to find out which particular bill we are speaking to. It is Bill C-48 which is the cooked up deal that was done in a hotel room and not the previous bill. The member is confused, but if he wants to debate the previous bill, that was an hour ago.

The bill before us now does not even set out what the objectives are for the $4.5 billion. It simply says:

The Governor in Council may specify the particular purposes for which payments referred to in subsection (1) may be made....

We had something like that in the gun registry. It was supposed to be $2 million and it ended up, according to accounts we have, being almost $2 billion. It is not a question that we want to throw money around.

The government wanted to fixed the problem in Davis Inlet so it moved a whole community at a cost of $400,000 per person. What happened? The problem followed the people. We need to have a plan. We cannot just throw money and buy votes. At least the Liberals did this much, they did not promise a lot. They said if, maybe and whatever.

What does concern me is what is in Bill C-48. It states:

For the purposes of this Act, the Governor in Council may... authorize a minister to

(e) incorporate a corporation any shares or memberships of which, on incorporation, would be held by, on behalf of or in trust for the Crown; or

(f) acquire shares or memberships of a corporation that, on acquisition, would be held by, on behalf of or in trust for the Crown.

That is like setting up the sponsorship scandal all over again.

The Auditor General said that only the tip of the iceberg has been talked about. She said that another $850 million has not been investigated. Set up a corporation for this government and do it arm's length from the Auditor General and let us see what happens. This bill is half-baked. It was cooked up in the middle of the night to buy votes and stay in power at all costs, and that is wrong.

[Roy Cullen, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

Mr. Speaker, it is a pity that my friend Bernie Collins will not be running because I am sure he would do very well against the member.

Knowing what is in budget and what went on with respect to Bill C-43 and Bill C-48, it is obvious that he has not studied the matter very carefully.

He raised a very serious issue having to do with farmers in Canada. I represent an urban riding but it is very important that we have a very strong agricultural sector in Canada. The one thing I find quite interesting is that the government has actually supported farmers in Canada with billions and billions of dollars. I am troubled by the fact that this does not seem to be having any impact.

I wonder if the member could comment on how that money could be better deployed.

[Ed Komarnicki, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Mr. Speaker, it would be better deployed if it did not go through a program started by the government where 50% or better is lost in administration. Farmers in Saskatchewan have waited over a year for a response. When they do get a response the government is asking for more information that is already there. That is the kind of program we have.

If we go back to the previous bill, Bill C-43, the finance minister himself said that the government could not take away the corporate tax cuts. He stated, “If the gentleman has a serious proposition, please bring it forward and I will give it the consideration it deserves”.

I point out, however, that changes in the corporate taxation are intended to assure jobs, jobs, jobs, and that they stay in Canada. The agreement that was made in the dead of night talks about both parties agreeing to take steps to eliminate those cuts but they are not in Bill C-48. That, plus the workers' protection fund of $100 million, is missing. What happened to it?

It is born in confusion, it is born in duplicity and it will die when the election takes place.

[Gurmant Grewal, Conservative, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to rise today on behalf of the constituents of Newton--North Delta to participate in the debate on Bill C-48, an act to authorize the Minister of Finance to make certain payments.

The proposed legislation would enact the $4.6 billion deal struck by the Liberal government with the NDP to make payments in 2005-06 and 2006-07 from surplus moneys exceeding $2 billion to fund environmental initiatives, including public transit and an energy efficient retrofit program for low income housing; training programs and enhanced access to post-secondary education to benefit, among others, aboriginal Canadians; affordable housing, including housing for aboriginal Canadians; and foreign aid.

I am opposed to Bill C-48 for a couple of reasons. First, I oppose the bill for the politics behind it. This is a $4.6 billion deal using taxpayers money to keep a corrupt party afloat in government.

The Liberals and the NDP have joined together and written a fiscal plan on the back of an envelope. The only motivation behind the deal is an attempt for political survival by the desperate and corrupt Liberal government. This is a recipe for economic disaster.

Second, it takes government spending to a new dangerous level. There are any number of worthy ways in which to spend taxpayers' hard-earned money, some under federal jurisdiction, some under provincial jurisdiction and some under municipal jurisdiction.

The government cannot seem to decide what its priorities should be and as a result is throwing money around regardless of jurisdiction. This is not in the best interest of Canadians and must be strongly opposed by all those who wish to preserve the fiscal integrity of the federal government.

Even before this budget side deal, the government was ramping up spending. I have said it before and I will say it again. This year's budget demonstrates that tax and spend Liberals are back with a vengeance. If there was any doubt about the truth of this statement, it has been washed away by the Liberal-NDP budget and the tidal wave of new spending announcements that cabinet ministers have been making on a daily basis for the last month.

A Prime Minister who made his reputation by taking tough fiscal decisions, whether by choice or, more likely, as a result of pressure from the reform party and later the Canadian Alliance, has now revealed his true colours.

He is a tax and spend Liberal, the likes of whom this country has not seen since the darkest days of Liberal excesses in the 1970s and early 1980s. It was runaway spending under Prime Minister Trudeau that took this country to the brink of bankruptcy. At the rate the government is spending taxpayer money, Canadians will again find themselves in the poor house.

Last year the finance minister promised to demonstrate unequivocally the principles of financial responsibility and integrity. He promised Canadians to better control spending, which is another broken promise by the government, another promise made but again not kept, even before the budget side deal and the billions in additional spending promises of the last month the government was proposing.

Last year the finance minister projected program spending at $148 billion for 2004-05 but he ended up going $10 billion over the budget. As a result, in the last fiscal year we witnessed a spending increase of $17 billion over the previous year. So much for controlling spending. At 12%, this is the largest single spending increase in over 20 years and the fourth largest in the last four decades.

Since 2000, program spending soared by 44% and judging from what we have witnessed in recent weeks, Canadians should hang onto their seats because they have not seen anything yet. I could almost forgive this runaway spending if there was some demonstrable evidence that Canadians' lives were improving as a result, but that is not the case.

My constituents in Newton--North Delta are at pains to see how all this spending has made any difference. Despite billions of dollars being spent, child poverty continues to grow, health care further deteriorates, roads and bridges remain congested, public transit cries for funding, and there continues to be a strong demand for good, well paying jobs. After all of the government's spending, hospital waiting lines will continue to get worse, students will continue to plunge deeper into debt, and our soldiers will be stretched as thinly as ever.

People in my riding depend upon Surrey Memorial Hospital for their health care. Our community is fast outgrowing its hospital in the community. The hospital, built in the 1970s to accommodate 50,000 patients a year, now handles between 70,000 and 72,000 patients annually and has the busiest emergency ward in western Canada. Surrey Memorial Hospital's facilities now cope with the demands placed upon it by our community's soaring population. There have been recurring complaints about waiting times, a lack of beds, insufficient staff, sanitary conditions, and questionable procedures at the hospital's crowded emergency room.

The root cause of the problems we now face goes back to the Prime Minister and the cuts he made to the CHST in the mid-1990s when he was finance minister. These cuts left successive B.C. governments to find extra billions of dollars for health care. The new money for health care in this year's budget will not provide Surrey Memorial Hospital with the money it needs and of course there is nothing in Bill C-48 to help that.

The health care agreement, which the Prime Minister hyped as a fix for a generation, will only allow B.C. to increase health expenditures by 3% annually over the next six years. Not only will this amount not fix health care, it will not even cover the rising costs resulting from inflation and population growth, while the dollar figure spread out over such an extended period amounts to little more than a band-aid solution to our critically ill health care system.

Bill C-48 is heavy on the public purse but light on details. It commits to hundreds of millions of dollars under broad areas without any concrete plans as to how that money would be spent. The Liberal-NDP deal, which is reflected in this bill, has been denounced by business groups, particularly the small businesses that favour allocating this federal surplus to debt reduction and tax relief over additional spending.

This bill is a reflection of the new federal budget, an NDP budget, one that the Liberals had amended after they said it could not be done. The Liberals are willing to spend billions of taxpayers' dollars to fund their addiction to power. This is a direct result of the loss of their moral authority to govern. Not only should this bill not be passed, but the finance minister should resign for tabling it. Clearly, the NDP leader has more influence on the budgetary framework than the Prime Minister's own finance minister.

A Conservative government believes that responsible exploration, development, conservation and renewal of our environment is vital to our continued growth. The Conservative Party also believes that all Canadians should have a reasonable opportunity to own their own homes and have access to safe and affordable housing. The Conservative Party believes in greater accessibility to education by eliminating as many barriers to post-secondary education as possible.

The Conservative Party is committed to strengthening Canada's record in foreign aid. A Conservative government would reduce business taxes. Reducing taxes would encourage foreign and domestic businesses to invest in Canada. I believe that a Conservative government could manage the finances better than this budget. Therefore, I will oppose it because I cannot support it.

[Larry Bagnell, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Natural Resources]

Mr. Speaker, the Conservatives are going to have a difficult decision to make in a few minutes. They have had difficulties so far. They first said they were supporting this budget and then they said they were going to vote against it which resulted in a good deal with the NDP. Now they are going to vote for the budget.

Those members are going to have to look in the mirror. They claim to be fiscally responsible and yet they will be voting against the most fiscally responsible government in the G-8 with the best record in the G-8, and the only balanced budget in the G-8. The government is providing the largest tax cuts in Canadian history. Can those members really stand true to their values and vote against that?

The few remaining progressives in that party are the ones who are going to have the most difficult decision to make. They are going to have to look at their future. This is going to be the largest watched budget vote in Canadian history. They are going to have to look at their future, not just in the short term but in the long term for the country.

Are the progressives in that party going to vote against the largest foreign aid package in history and against affordable housing? Can they truly vote against literacy? Can the progressives really vote against the largest environmental budget in Canadian history? Can they vote against health care, which is the first concern of Canadians? Can they vote against the advances for aboriginal people? Can they vote against renewable energy? Can the progressives vote against the northern strategy? Can they vote against the 8,000 soldiers and increases for the military? Most important, can they search their souls when they vote tonight and put Canada first or are they going to set the stage for the next referendum that could break up this country?

Every member of the Conservative Party should think carefully about the future of Canada. I ask them this evening to vote for Canada.

[Gurmant Grewal, Conservative, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Mr. Speaker, this NDP-Liberal budget is not helping my community. Hospitals in my community are not being taken care of. Waiting lines will continue. There is a shortage of beds, doctors and nurses. That cannot be fixed by this budget. Students are not getting any benefits from this budget. Their spiraling debt will continue and their tuition fees will continue to increase.

This political budget agreed to by the Liberals and the NDP was simply agreed to in order to save the government's face and help it cling to power. The bill is a reflection of the new federal NDP budget, one the Liberals have amended after they said it could not be amended. The government's record definitely speaks for itself. Taxes are high and small businesses oppose this budget.

I am confident in opposing this budget because it does not help people back in my constituency. It does not provide any relief to communities where more jobs could be created, where infrastructure development could be strong, and where health care, education and the environment could be taken care of.

On the other hand, a Conservative government would reduce business taxes. By reducing business taxes we would be encouraging foreign and domestic businesses to invest in Canada thereby strengthening the economy. This would also mean better jobs for Canadian workers.

Lower business taxes mean greater returns for pension plan members, for their RRSPs, for mutual funds, and for a few common shares. Using that money would strengthen Canada's economy not for political payoffs but for investing back in the communities. I will have to vote against this budget until everything is amended.

[Roy Cullen, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness]

Mr. Speaker, I am surprised to see the member for Newton--North Delta in the House. I thought he would be getting briefed on his diplomatic posting.

In his speech he talked about the $41 billion that the government has committed to the health care system and said that it is not showing any results in terms of waiting times. I had a chat the other evening with the health minister in Ontario who said he was starting to see a reduction in those times. That is what this is all about. It takes time. I hope he persists in his province of British Columbia.

[Gurmant Grewal, Conservative, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I believe that the hon. member who made the previous remarks has not listened to the audio recording of the chief of staff of the Prime Minister's Office.

With respect to this budget, as I have said, it is not helping my constituency, my constituents or the infrastructure development for small businesses to create jobs. It is not helping to get homes and accommodation for the homeless. It is not helping to alleviate poverty. It is not helping to fix the health care system for Surrey Memorial Hospital or Delta Hospital. This budget is not doing anything to give relief to my constituents. Therefore, I will be voting against this budget.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. I would like to seek the unanimous consent of this House to table a report by the Standing Committee on Official Languages, which received the unanimous approval of all members of the committee.

[The Acting Speaker (Mr. Marcel Proulx)]

The House has heard the hon. member's request. Does the House give its unanimous consent to return to presenting reports from committees under the heading of routine proceedings to allow him to table his report?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

Committees of the House

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I have the honour to present, in both official languages, the second report of the Standing Committee on Official Languages. Pursuant to Standing Order 108(3)(f), the committee has carried out a study on bilingualism and official language use in the federal public service and agreed, on Thursday, May 18, 2005, to report its findings and recommendations to the House.

The House resumed consideration of the motion that Bill C-48, an act to authorize the Minister of Finance to make certain payments, be read the second time and referred to a committee, and of the motion that this question be now put.

An Act To Authorize The Minister Of Finance To Make Certain Payments

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased to debate Bill C-48. I believe that a member on the other side of the House once called it the people's budget. I am going to talk about the budget that hurts people. That is why Conservatives, including myself, will actually be opposing Bill C-48. It hurts seniors. It hurts farmers. It hurts auto workers. It hurts our children, because ruining our nation's finances will be stuck with our children. Runaway spending is not what this country needs.

Since betrayal is the story of the week on the Hill, I want to talk about some very important people, the people of Essex, people who were left out of the budget both by the Liberals and the NDP. One would think if the Prime Minister was desperate to maintain his slipping grip on power, a better deal might have been struck. He was ripe for the picking. Perhaps the deal was made in a sweaty back room in a hotel somewhere and the air was thick, I am not sure, but there are a lot of things missing from the budget, things that harm communities.

For example, there is no new border infrastructure money for the Windsor-Detroit corridor. After allocating maybe $150 million some two and a half years ago, there is about $50 million left in the fund.The very first project allocated under that spending was a very simple pedestrian overpass: ramp up, ramp up, go over the street, ramp down, ramp down. That was agreed to two and a half years ago. It has been a year and a half in design and redesign. Now it comes out with wind turbines and a little swamp bog on the front lawn of a high school that is off the side of that street. The saddest thing is that the simple project has not been built.

The thing that is important is putting pavement between Windsor and Detroit. That is going to cost some money. There is no money in the budget for that. There is no money in Bill C-48 for that. There are trucking companies and owner-operators in our communities whose livelihoods depend on getting this solved. It is clearly not a priority for the government. It is going to take more than $50 million to solve it.

In fact, a third crossing may cost some $300 million to $400 million. Hundreds of millions of dollars more will be required for roads that will connect to a third crossing from Highway 401. The Liberal solution is $50 million. That is shameful. It says that the Liberals did not make a very strong commitment to the region of Essex and Windsor. The NDP had the opportunity to get that with a Prime Minister eager to consolidate his slipping grip on power. There are two NDP members of Parliament in Windsor and they received nothing for the community. It is clear that both the NDP and the Liberals care nothing about Essex and Windsor.

Maybe judgment gets clouded when people cut back room deals, I do not know, but there is no help for farmers in Essex County in this budget.

I rose in the House in February and called on the government for assistance for grain and oilseed producers who are facing foreclosure on their farms. There are 1,200 grain and oilseed producers in Essex County alone. Many of them are facing foreclosure this spring. The CFIP cheques according to the government are rolling in, but for those who actually got some cheques, they were for $100 or $200. That is not enough to cover the cost of fuel to run the combine across the field let alone pay down a short term operating loan that the bank is calling in on them.

As a result, farmers are trading in their equity. One producer told me he has cashed in his RRSPs to hold off the bank, desperately hoping that he is going to make it through the spring. He is not going to make it through the spring. He will not make it through the summer. His farm is done. There is no help for farmers.

When the NDP members had the Prime Minister on the ropes and were going to cut a deal in the back room, they should have thought about Tommy Douglas and the CCF out on the Prairies who said they loved the farmers, but the NDP did nothing for our farmers. Bill C-43 fails our farmers. Bill C-48 fails our farmers as well. The New Democratic Party budget has left farmers to fend for themselves. How apropos for a week of betrayal on the Hill.

I do not know about the stale air in the back room where the leader was cutting a deal with the Prime Minister, but the NDP also forgot to help those Canadian seniors who collect U.S. social security. The New Democrat member for Windsor—Tecumseh and I petitioned the Liberal finance minister to include a rollback of an onerous 70% tax hike that was foisted on Canadian seniors collecting U.S. social security as the basis of their retirement income. We lobbied that this would be a line item in the Liberal budget.

As was expected, the Liberal government refused. It has been fighting against these Canadian seniors for eight long years. Many of the seniors have been dying off. The government has taken the wait and die attitude. That is how the government treats Canadian seniors.

Many of these seniors were forced from their homes. Do we want to talk about housing? They were forced from their homes. They were living in homes and now they cannot afford homes. All the affordable housing in the world will not compensate dead Canadians. These seniors were forced from their homes precisely at a time when the Prime Minister as Liberal finance minister was registering ships in Barbados in order to only pay 2% tax in Canada.

These seniors have been waiting eight years for justice. The New Democrat members from Windsor--Tecumseh and Windsor West have talked about this issue in the House, but when it came time to prop up the government with an NDP budget, they did nothing for these seniors. Let the record show that the New Democratic Party sold out Canadian seniors who collect U.S. social security.

I know that Buzz Hargrove was in the negotiations behind closed doors. Here is the real kicker on Bill C-48. I have heard a lot of talk here about auto policy and helping auto workers. Interestingly enough there is no help for auto workers and their families in this NDP budget.

I am Parliament's first auto worker ever elected and not from the New Democrats or the CCF. I spent three and a half years at the Pillette Road truck assembly plant before it closed and two and a half years at Windsor assembly living in constant anxiety about job security. The global market is even more fiercely competitive.

The Liberal government says that it does not care how many jobs go overseas, but we in the Conservative party actually do care. International competition from cheaper foreign labour markets and a higher Canadian dollar have put the squeeze on our automakers here in Canada.

The New Democratic Party has deep-sixed tax relief for large corporations like automakers. It would have increased their productivity and their competitiveness. It would have allowed automakers to not only fulfill their collective bargaining agreements but still turn a profit and do it here in Canada, preserving Canadian jobs and Canadian families and allowing them to survive. That would have been a win-win situation.

Coupled with its last supply day motion on an outrageous job killing mandatory fuel efficiency regulation, it is clear that the New Democratic Party wants to drive auto jobs out of Ontario and over to China. The 9% unemployment rate in the Essex-Windsor region is not good enough. The New Democrats want it to be 12% or 13% the way they are forcing auto jobs out of here.

The New Democratic Party did not get an auto policy. It left crushing high corporate taxes to kill auto jobs. The New Democratic budget did not fight for tax relief for hardworking Canadian auto families.

I recall for years the New Democrats bemoaning the Liberal government for doing nothing about reinvesting the $45 billion EI surplus in workers. When I look at Bill C-48, where is the $45 billion EI surplus reinvestment that the New Democrats thought was so important? Nowhere.

The 5,500 people I worked with on the line at DaimlerChrysler and their families deserve a better budget than this New Democratic budget. It is an NDP budget that hurts workers.

Finally, this NDP budget hurts families. Governments should be designing budgets to encourage strong families. On the child care initiative, $1 billion a year is what the government says and $10 billion a year is what the CAW says. Where is that going to come from? It is a hidden agenda of $9 billion per year when the government is promising $25 billion. That is going to mean program cutbacks or it is going to mean deficits and debt, a return to red ink. That hurts Canadian families.

This NDP budget is financially ruinous. It hurts communities in Windsor-Essex. It hurts farmers in Essex County. It hurts seniors, auto workers and families. As a result I cannot in good conscience support Bill C-48. I will oppose it tonight, proudly on behalf of those people in Essex who deserve a fair shake.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Mr. Speaker, after listening to that drivel for so long, I have to remind Conservative Party members that they are the ones who voted against every single farm assistance program from 1993 to 1997, every single one.

I would also like to remind Conservative members, who have been up talking about palliative care and everything else and what a shame there is not enough, that they voted against my assistance bill that would have given people time off from their work for six months to a year while collecting EI to look after their dying loved ones. The Conservatives voted against that. Shame on them.

The Conservatives stand up and say they will spend more money on day care. They say they will spend more money on the military. They say they will spend more on the environment. The way they are talking, we would be bankrupt by 6 o'clock tonight.

That is all I have to say to that member. I wish him good luck in whatever he does.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the answer is quite simple. When we defeat Bill C-48 tonight and bring down the government, I will be happy to match our platform against anybody's on behalf of auto workers, on behalf of the environment and on behalf of farmers.

I have been fighting for farmers in the House. I have not heard the hon. member over there fighting for farmers, but I have certainly been doing it. We will be glad to go to bat for our farmers.

[Roy Cullen, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness]

Mr. Speaker, the member for Essex mentioned Barbados. I wonder if he was actually in Barbados when there was a huge announcement in Windsor agreeing to phase two of the Windsor-Detroit infrastructure, a commitment of roughly $285 million to invest in that infrastructure.

I wonder if he was absent when the government announced $433 million for the Canada Border Services Agency to put more customs officers in Windsor, and the 25% challenge, where we have agreed to increase the throughput of traffic across the Ambassador Bridge in Windsor-Detroit.

I wonder if he was in Barbados when those announcements were made.

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I was actually on top of the Cleary International Centre watching the announcement being made.

That $150 million was allocated some time ago. The hon. member is now talking about finally committing to those projects some two and a half years later. Let us look at the Liberal record on that.

The pedestrian overpass, the simplest project, is not even done yet. It just got tendered three weeks ago, after a year and a half of design changes. That is the easiest one, and it does nothing to add pavement between Windsor and Detroit, I might remind the hon. member. It will cost $300 million to $400 million for a third crossing and hundreds of millions of dollars for roads to connect from our highway system to that crossing. All the Liberals have left in the border infrastructure fund in federal dollars is $50 million. That is sad.

The Liberals do not consider Essex-Windsor a priority. I do, and a Conservative budget would do a whole lot better than that.

[Shawn Murphy, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans]

Mr. Speaker, Canadians are being treated to quite a spectacle here tonight. When Bill C-43 was introduced back in February, most Canadians embraced that budget, but the first Canadian to embrace it was the Leader of the Opposition.

For some reason, either he did a poll or he got a piece of evidence, he came back and told the House and all Canadians three things. First, he told them that regardless of how favourable Canadians thought the budget was, he would vote against the budget. The second thing he told the House was that regardless of what Canadians thought of the Bloc Québécois, he would enter into a deal with the Bloc Québécois. Third, he told the House and all Canadians that regardless of whether or not Canadians wanted an election, he would use every trick in the book to call an election.

Yesterday, the spectacle that Canadians were treated to was that now he would support Bill C-43. My question to the hon. member is why? Can he explain to Canadians why he changed his mind?

[Jeff Watson, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I am beginning to think the hon. member was in that sweaty hotel room when the NDP cut Bill C-48. We are on debate on Bill C-48. I am not sure where the hon. member has been all this time.

Let me just say something very quickly. On Bill C-48, the leader of the Conservative Party was very clear. In fact he was standing in my riding when he made an announcement that because of the deal with the devil--and we all know who that is, the leader of the fourth party in the House--he said he would come back to caucus and recommend we put the government out of its misery. That was because of Bill C-48. I do not see any inconsistency in that. Quite frankly, it would be really nice if we did put the Liberals out of their misery tonight.

[Louis Plamondon, Bloc, Richelieu, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I am surprised to hear the Liberal members speak of the Bloc Québécois, every time they rise, as if there were nothing in the world worse than us. They ought instead to be examining why the Bloc Québécois is in this House. It is because every time Quebec has trusted the Liberals, its trust has been betrayed. Quebec will never again be able to trust Liberal MPs. This is why the people of Quebec elect Bloc Québécois MPs.

I could give a few quick examples of this. In 1980, the Liberals said “If you vote no to the referendum, that will be a yes to change, a change that will be in line with Quebec's historic claims.”

Instead, they patriated the Constitution without Quebec's consent. One of the founding peoples was left out. We were treated to the sight of Quebec Liberal MPs celebrating the exclusion of Quebec with the Queen of England in front of the parliament buildings. That is why we do not trust Liberal MPs and why Quebeckers vote Bloc Québécois.

Another example: the promises relating to the helicopters. The Liberals promised to abolish this program, and then when they got in power, abolished it but six months later bought some more expensive ones.

The same thing happened with the GST. The Liberals have always sung one tune before an election, while campaigning, and another once they get in power.

Then there is employment insurance and the promise the Liberals have just made to the NDP. I find the NDP quite naive in signing an agreement when we know that Liberals respect nothing. The agreement they have signed, moreover, will apply only if there is a surplus.

I have only a few seconds left, so I will close by saying that we will vote with pride against this budget, because it in no way represents the interests of Quebec.

(Motion that this question be now put deemed carried on division.)

The House resumed consideration of the motion that Bill C-43, an act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on February 23, 2005, be read the second time and referred to a committee.

Budget Implementation Act, 2005

[The Acting Speaker (Mr. Marcel Proulx)]

It being 5:30 p.m., pursuant to order made Monday, May 16, 2005, the House will now proceed to the taking of the deferred recorded division on the motion at second reading stage of Bill C-43.

Call in the members.

(The House divided on the motion, which was agreed to on the following division:)