House of Commons Hansard #104 of the 38th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was budget.

Topics

Committees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

4:05 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

The House has heard the terms of the motion. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

Committees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

4:05 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

Committees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

4:05 p.m.

An hon. member

On division.

(Motion agreed to)

The House resumed consideration of the motion, and of the motion that this question be now put.

Budget Implementation Act, 2005Routine Proceedings

4:05 p.m.

NDP

Alexa McDonough NDP Halifax, NS

Mr. Speaker, I welcome the opportunity to speak further to the motion before us.

I am grateful for members like the member for Timmins--James Bay who spoke in a very direct way about when he returned to his riding last week and how clear it was to him that his constituents want us to get on with dealing with the business that we were sent here to do. I know of no member who works harder and who more passionately represents his constituents than the member for Timmins--James Bay. I suspect that if every member of the House were asked under oath to tell the truth we would all have to say that we heard the same urgings and pleas from our constituents over the last 10 days.

I want to take issue with what the parliamentary secretary said. He talked about how the motion before us to deal with the Atlantic accord in a expeditious way is somehow about preferencing or cherry-picking. I do not think that is the case. It is about trying to make some progress. It is about trying to take one important step forward and having the business of the Atlantic accord done. All members of the House presumably agree with that. I have not yet heard a rationale as to why somebody would not agree with the Atlantic accord. We could then get on and deal with the next item of business. This is not about preferencing. It is about recognizing that we have to make some progress.

The parliamentary secretary offered the argument that the reason it was easy to come to an agreement about fast tracking the veterans bill was because it was about a single issue. The reality is that the Atlantic accord in a sense is about a specific single issue. It is about moneys owing to Nova Scotia and Newfoundland because of historic measures that were put in place that actually prevented us from benefiting from those resources. The very same argument could be applied to the Atlantic accord.

We have to take seriously the sense of dismay, cynicism and skepticism that Canadians have that we have deteriorated into such a self-serving, self-interested partisan bunch that we cannot get any of the business of the House accomplished. That is a tragedy. It is a tragedy as it relates to the business before us at this particular time, but it is even more serious than that. If Canadians have reached that level of cynicism because of the paralysis, the stonewalling and the games that have been played, it is serious for the future health of our democratic process.

I hope the government will reconsider its position on this and recognize that in the interest of making some progress we should deal with the Atlantic accord and then go on to the next step.

I listened to the passionate pitches put forward by the member for St. John's South--Mount Pearl and the member for Okanagan--Coquihalla. They talked about how badly needed these resources were for Newfoundland and Nova Scotia. Even though these provinces are the specific beneficiaries, there is no question that these resources will be beneficial to all Atlantic Canadians.

However I heard nothing in the comments of the Conservative members, not in their speeches nor in their responses to the numerous questions put to them, about how on the one hand they can make such a strong plea for the money to flow through the Atlantic accord to where it is so desperately needed, in Newfoundland and Nova Scotia, but on the other hand make it clear that they intend to vote against other resources that are desperately needed by Atlantic Canadians.

Maybe one of the Conservative members will address my lack of knowledge on what decisions the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador has made and what announcement the premier of Newfoundland may have made about where the resources from the Atlantic accord will be directed and actually allocated in the Newfoundland economy. I am sure other members would also be interested in knowing this.

The premier of Nova Scotia has said that most of the money from the Atlantic accord, if not the total $830 million, will go to paying down the debt, and I think there is quite a broad consensus of support for this decision. That of course is in the interest of freeing up moneys in the future so the money is not being used up in interest payments.

However we should make no mistake about it, at least in the case of Nova Scotia, that if that is how the money is spent, it is all the more imperative that the proportional share of Nova Scotia's fair share from the $1.6 million put in the better balanced NDP supplementary budget measures, flow through to be used for desperately needed affordable housing. It is not going to come from the Atlantic accord. Maybe it is in Newfoundland but it is not in Nova Scotia.

Similarly, there is a desperate need for those moneys in Nova Scotia, the money for post-secondary education, which the Conservatives voted against the second last day before we broke for a week, and money that is desperately in Newfoundland. We are talking about unprecedented levels of high tuition, crippling student debt and a serious erosion of quality post-secondary education that students are receiving today and will go on receiving if the re-commitment of dollars is not made to post-secondary education, to access, affordability and the quality of the educational experience.

I do not understand it. I do not get how the Conservative caucus, the official opposition, can take the position that the Atlantic accord is critically important but then vote to defeat the government so it could not go through. Let us say that the Conservatives have seen the light of day. They have had a week to reflect, realize the insanity of that position and they have come back saying that we should get the Atlantic accord through.

Surely to heaven they also recognize how critically important it is to ensure the money starts to flow for affordable housing, affordable education, improving the quality of education and certainly for the public transit measures and the energy retrofitting that is so desperately needed, particularly for low income housing.

Let us be clear. In job starved parts of this country, and heaven knows that includes Newfoundland and Nova Scotia, as well as New Brunswick and Prince Edward Island, the energy retrofitting program, the affordable housing program and, for that matter, the post-secondary education program all have to do with the creation of quality jobs and the investment in our human resources so that people can fill and carry out those very important jobs.

It seems to me there is a fundamental contradiction that just is not explained at all by the members in the Conservative caucus from Nova Scotia or Newfoundland.

However let me go beyond the interests of just Atlantic Canada.The parliamentary secretary was not wrong when he asked whether people would think that if we were to fast track the Atlantic accord that only Atlantic Canadians would be given fair consideration and that the only people really pushing for this were Atlantic Canadian members of Parliament. Let the record show that is not the case. My colleague from Timmins—James Bay made an eloquent plea that we get on with this because we need to get the other budgetary measures through.

He and my colleagues have stood together and have agreed that we need to make some progress here. We need to deal with the Atlantic accord but let us do it because it is fair and because it will be some solid progress that Canadians can look to and we can take some satisfaction in.

I think we should do it. I think all members of the House should cooperate so we can put an end to the games playing, the stalling, the stonewalling, the strategizing and the tactics being used by the Conservative members. At least we will take away one of the obstructionistic actions that they have in mind and then we will try to deal with the next one.

Maybe the Conservative caucus, which pretends to be the party, aspires to be the party and brags about being the party that reflects the true feelings of grassroots Canadians, will actually be forced to start listening to their own constituents who are saying, “For the love of God let us get on with dealing with these budgetary measures that are needed”.

I want to say something about the continual attacks by the Conservative members on the notion that somehow there is a grotesquely irresponsible $4.6 billion that have been committed in the NDP additional budgetary measures that are contained in Bill C-48.

Unless the Conservative members have not done their homework, and it will be pretty funny if they actually plead ignorance on this point, every member of that official opposition caucus know the finance committee had four independent forecasters do work on the government's state of finances and bring in reports to indicate clearly that the $4.6 billion could be afforded. We are talking about $2.3 billion in each of two years.

The Conservatives are either pretending they do not know, in which case that is less than honest, or they actually do not know, in which case the very party that wraps itself up in all this talk about fiscal responsibility has not paid enough attention to the work of the finance committee to recognize that the four different independent forecasts done for the finance committee made it absolutely clear that the size of the government's surpluses that were solidly predictable will more than allow, not just the expenditure of $2.3 billion in each of 2004, 2005-06, 2006-07, but actually made it clear that the surplus of $8 billion, which is projected for each of those two years, would be sufficient to absorb the additional $2.3 billion in spending contained in the NDP budget measures without incurring a deficit. In fact, having absorbed those additional expenditures, the budget would still permit that without affecting the reserves that the government typically sets aside for contingency and economic prudence. There would still be funds left over to increase spending even further.

Let us not start talking about new ideas and spending new money. Surely the Conservative caucus will not refuse to acknowledge that the Liberals in 1995 brought in a budget that eliminated the best affordable housing program in the world. This infusion of $1.6 billion is just the beginning of rebuilding that affordable housing program. It is criminal when we look at how little has been done to create new affordable housing stocks in this country.

The Conservative caucus members also know that in the middle of the last election campaign the Prime Minister went to Newfoundland and participated in a debate with my leader, the member for Toronto—Danforth, where the Prime Minister pledged that $8 billion would be recommitted to post-secondary education. It would not be fully accomplished in the budget but it would start in the budget.

When the Conservative caucus members took about two minutes to look at the Liberal budget, they did not even object to the fact that there was no new infusion of funds to restore core funding for post-secondary education. They could not wait to get out fast enough to those microphones and the scrum to say, “We like this budget and they can count on our support”.

Now the Conservative caucus is talking about needing to drag out the process so that people will still be left waiting and wondering if we are going to have that budget approved by the end of this session in late June. They know these extra moneys can be afforded. They know they are desperately needed.

They know that part of what is plaguing the lives of ordinary working people in this country is the fact that the Liberals have gutted the commitment to affordable housing and the commitment to core funding, including student aid programs and tuition reduction, yet they are talking about not being able to afford these investments. These are critically important investments. We cannot afford not to get on with those investments.

Finally, I want to again plead with all members to recognize that we have the opportunity here to pull together around what I think it is increasingly clear Canadians want us to do. They want us to deal with these budget measures. They do not want us to drag it out.

I do not have the figures right at my fingertips, but unless I am mistaken, this kind of dragged out, protracted and detailed analysis, which the official opposition is now saying is absolutely necessary, of every line by line in the budget that goes to the finance committee, has never ever been pursued by the official opposition. Maybe if it had been pursued more vigorously over the years, we would not have some of the problems of government misspending, of the lack of accountability, which we know about.

I have not been on the finance committee as an ongoing member, but I think I am accurate in saying this. My recollection is that most often the detailed questioning and the heavy lifting that has been done in terms of demanding accountability before the budget implementation bill in front of the finance committee has been done by New Democrat members, so it is a little sickening and a little disingenuous, to say the least, to hear these members going on and on about some kind of reckless, wasteful, spendthrift measures that the NDP has put before the House and which will be put before the finance committee.

Let us stop playing the games. Let us stop the partisanship. Let us get on with listening to what Canadians want. Let us actually be able to leave this session with a sense of satisfaction that we pulled together, that we came together and did what we were sent here to do.

Budget Implementation Act, 2005Routine Proceedings

4:25 p.m.

Don Valley West Ontario

Liberal

John Godfrey LiberalMinister of State (Infrastructure and Communities)

Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the hon. member for Halifax, which arises from the arrangement which we have made with the New Democratic Party to bring together a package of Bill C-43 and Bill C-48. All of us on this side of the House think that is pretty good business given some of the measures that are in there, including the $800 million for public transit.

My concern is with the position of the member for Halifax on the pulling out of the Atlantic accord from Bill C-43. It seems to me that if on the one hand she and her party would argue, as I would, that we ought to see Bill C-43 and Bill C-48 as one but on the other hand we start pulling out different elements to vote on from Bill C-43, indirectly and I am sure without intention she will weaken the case for our presenting of Bill C-43 and Bill C-48 as a unified package. Perhaps she might want to comment on what seems to be a contradiction.

Budget Implementation Act, 2005Routine Proceedings

4:25 p.m.

NDP

Alexa McDonough NDP Halifax, NS

Mr. Speaker, I want to say to the Minister of State for Infrastructure and Communities that his is a completely reasonable question. I think we have to really wrestle with this. I will tell him that my colleagues and I have wrestled with this.

I think the bigger question is about how we can make some progress here. The Minister of State for Infrastructure may not have been in the House when I said quite directly, and maybe I am being a bit too transparent here, that maybe one good reason for us all pulling together and saying “let's get the Atlantic accord dealt with” is so we can take away the games playing that would go on around the Atlantic accord and the obstructionism by the official opposition if we do not do this.

Why do we not just say let us get it done? Then we will finally be making some progress with all of the measures together. We have already heard the minister's own colleagues like the parliamentary secretary trying to say that it is some kind of preferential treatment to talk about just the Atlantic accord.

The Atlantic accord does have to do with Atlantic Canada. and in particular with Newfoundland and Labrador and Nova Scotia. Let us deal with that and get it out of the way, because the rest of the budgetary measures have to do with Canada as a whole. They have to do with Canadians in every part of this country who desperately need the investment and who will benefit from a huge commitment to child care all over this country, to post-secondary education all over this country and to infrastructure measures all over this country. We would then remove this argument that is going to go round and round about how it is somehow preferential treatment and the question about how an Atlantic accord is just preferential anyway.

Let us deal with it. We all agree on it. Then we can get on with dealing with as a whole the two budget measures, which are multi-faceted, with 28 different components, and maybe actually get the job done. However, we are being obstructed at the very first stage around a very particular thing that it seems we could deal with expeditiously.

I think the hon. member's question was a fair question to put and I do not have any hesitation about acknowledging it.

Budget Implementation Act, 2005Routine Proceedings

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

Randy Kamp Conservative Dewdney—Alouette, BC

Frankly, Mr. Speaker, I am a little confused by what the hon. member for Halifax was saying. It sounded like she was critical of the official opposition for doing due diligence and looking at a bill in the way that it is supposed to be looked at. I find that astounding.

In light of the fact that this other half of the budget, Bill C-48, had no planning and has no accountability measures, we have no idea how that money is going to be spent. If I were to ask the hon. member if the average student, for example, is going to get any part of that money and what mechanism would be there for getting it, it is not in the bill so she would just be making it up.

This motion is about the Atlantic accord, so my question is about why she and her party voted against the Atlantic accord on March 9.

Budget Implementation Act, 2005Routine Proceedings

4:30 p.m.

NDP

Alexa McDonough NDP Halifax, NS

Mr. Speaker, let me say first that the member is just dead wrong if he thinks we cannot address in considerable detail where the budget measures in Bill C-48 are needed and can and must be spent. All we have to know is that we have had a virtual gutting of post-secondary education funding as it relates both to both core funding and to student aid measures.

Second, he says that we just do not have a clue as to how it would be spent if we did make the money available. He was not listening earlier. That is fair enough; he may not have been. I reported to the House that in Nova Scotia, for example, there has already been a bill passed in the Nova Scotia legislature, and by all political parties, by the way. The Conservatives, the New Democratic Party official opposition and the third party, the Liberals, unanimously voted and fast tracked legislation to say that the post-secondary education funding flowing from Bill C-48 would be dedicated to post-secondary education tuition reduction and improved training.

I do not know what Newfoundland and Labrador has done. I do not know what any of the other governments have done. Maybe all of us in this House could take a page out of Nova Scotia's book and actually engage in the kind of cooperation and collaboration that went on in the Nova Scotia legislature to pass that bill. The bill was introduced by the official opposition, so the government was not precious about saying, “Gee, we are not going to support something that has come from the official opposition”. It said, “Let us get the job done. Let us collaborate an all party agreement to fast track this and designate exactly where the money is going”. Maybe we could all learn a lesson from that experience.

Budget Implementation Act, 2005Routine Proceedings

4:30 p.m.

Etobicoke North Ontario

Liberal

Roy Cullen LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness

Mr. Speaker, I would like to concur with the observations made by my colleague, the Minister of State for Infrastructure and Communities. I do sense a certain inconsistency in the point of view of the member for Halifax, because if we look at Bill C-43 and Bill C-48 we see that they are essentially a stand-alone package.

I do have concerns. For example, what if the Conservative Party could uncouple the Atlantic accord? Let us say that it is fast tracked. We would still be left with the main or certainly an important part of Bill C-43 and Bill C-48. What would happen if the Conservative Party and the Bloc then said that on Bill C-48 they would like to fast track the part on overseas development assistance, for example? I cannot imagine the Conservatives supporting that, but one never knows. They could say they want to uncouple parts of Bill C-48 and fast track them.

I think my colleague is absolutely right. We have a package of two budget bills that are basically one, Bill C-43 and Bill C-48. Is the hon. member speaking on behalf of her Nova Scotian constituents or on behalf of the party? I share the minister's concern.

Budget Implementation Act, 2005Routine Proceedings

4:30 p.m.

NDP

Alexa McDonough NDP Halifax, NS

Mr. Speaker, I have already said I acknowledge that this is a bit of a risk. I acknowledge that this is a fair question to raise, but I also think that in the interests of making progress we have to find some ways to get beyond some of these games, roadblocks and stonewalling.

I think that in this instance a case could be made. It is not the most critical thing one could come up with, but it seems at the moment to be the only thing we can come up with, and that is to say, “Look, let us at least get this dealt with and move on in good faith to dealing with Bill C-43 and Bill C-48 in their entirety”. In other words, let us move on to the other 28 measures that we are dealing with. Let us get on with it. Let us take away the very club, the very basis on which the official opposition is stonewalling and saying that this is just not going to go anywhere until we deal with this.

I agree with the hon. member that the opposition could turn around and try to say “now let us split off something else and something else and something else”. We do not have to agree to that kind of nonsense. We can say that there can be a reasonable case made with respect to the Atlantic accord because it is a fairly specific bill that deals with something quite different and quite unusual, pertaining only to the treasuries of two provinces, really, although the Atlantic economy in general will benefit, there is no question. My plea is to say that if someone has a better idea of how we can finally get on with doing what we are here to do, then let us hear that too. I think that--

Budget Implementation Act, 2005Routine Proceedings

4:35 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

I am sorry, but the hon. member is out of time. It is my duty pursuant to Standing Order 38 to inform the House that the questions to be raised tonight at the time of adjournment are as follows: the hon. member for Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, Justice; the hon. member for Halifax, Education.

Budget Implementation Act, 2005Routine Proceedings

4:35 p.m.

Liberal

Rodger Cuzner Liberal Cape Breton—Canso, NS

Mr. Speaker, certainly I have a great deal of respect for the member for Halifax and her approach in looking at the budget in its entirety, looking at the accord and the amendments that have been made and really seeing the tremendous benefit not just for Newfoundland and Labrador and Nova Scotia but for all Atlantic Canada. In her presentation she viewed the budget through an Atlantic lens, which makes sense. Even outside the accord, I see so many benefits in the budget for the people in Atlantic Canada. In my province of Nova Scotia there is a tremendous amount of support for various initiatives.

As the finance minister pointed out in his 2005 budget speech, Canada stands out among the G-7 as having the best job creation record, the fastest growing standard of living, and low and stable inflation and interest rates. This did not happen by accident. Since eliminating the deficit in 1997 the Government of Canada has taken a balanced approach to reducing debt, reducing taxes and investing in social and economic priorities.

With the Government of Canada's seven consecutive surplus budgets, the federal debt has been reduced by more than $61 billion. Budgets are projected to remain balanced or better in 2004-05 and in each of the next five fiscal years. As a result we remain on track to achieve our goal of reducing the federal debt to GDP ratio to 25% by the year 2014-15. Canada's much improved fiscal situation has allowed the government to make significant investments in our country's future.

Before I get into the social aspects which I think are important for the Government of Canada to invest in, I want to speak specifically about some of the initiatives that have come out of the Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans, one of the committees I sit on in the House of Commons. Many of the initiatives that were in the budget grew from recommendations and initiatives that came forward from the Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans. There is the investment in the Oceans Act. Moneys are allocated in the budget to curb overfishing. There is money in the budget as well to reinvest in our Coast Guard.

There will be fleet replenishment for the Coast Guard. New vessels will be acquired through moneys that have been allotted in the budget. Combined with initiatives that are being put forward by the Minister of Industry, that will yield the opportunity for Canadian companies to be competitive and to engage in bidding on and building some of the new ships here in our own Canadian shipyards. Certainly we will support that.

The Atlantic salmon endowment fund is another initiative that has been pushed by the fisheries committee for some time and a number of members who have active salmon communities. In Cape Breton along the Margaree Valley it is imperative that the stock in the Margaree River is in good shape and that there are fish in the river. That is what drives the tourism industry in that area of the island.

Through investments in habitat, stock replenishment, enforcement and conservation and in partnering with a variety of community groups, such as the Atlantic Salmon Association and the Margaree Salmon Association, we could get a great deal of mileage out of investments like that. The money that has been peeled out in the budget will go a long way. From the $30 million identified in the budget, we will leverage three times that. We will be able to grow the moneys that are being put toward the salmon endowment fund.

The NDP amendment made additions in a variety of areas, one being affordable housing. Affordable housing is a concern in my riding as it is in most members' ridings in Atlantic Canada. We look at the allocation of funds for seniors housing and RRAP grants. That is key. People want to stay in their own homes and want an opportunity to reinvest in their homes. This will go a long way in aiding people in staying in their own homes.

Access to education is very key. The cost of education in Nova Scotia is high. Tuition fees for a medical student at McGill University in Quebec are around $1,400 annually. To attend the medical school at Dalhousie, that same medical student would be looking at tuition fees of $14,000. There is a considerable difference. Outside of the accord, the money for post-secondary education in the budget will go a long way in helping post-secondary students within my province.

I will now focus my remarks on initiatives in the budget that build on our social foundations, part of what defines us as Canadians. I want to speak about persons with disabilities. One of the areas of the budget that I am most proud of is the recognition by the government that a fair tax system recognizes the special circumstances of certain taxpayers and helps remove barriers from participation in the economy and society as a whole. I am speaking of the tax system for our fellow Canadians with disabilities.

Over the last several years the Government of Canada has introduced a number of tax measures to help persons with disabilities and caregivers who often provide vital care for persons with disabilities and loved ones who are elderly or ill. Building on those measures, budget 2005 takes significant new steps. Specifically, it provides persons with disabilities and caregivers with ongoing additional tax relief representing $120 million in 2005-06 and growing over time.

Hon. members will recall that in budget 2003 the government established the technical advisory committee on tax measures for persons with disabilities to advise the Minister of Finance and the Minister of National Revenue on how to address tax issues affecting persons with disabilities. The technical advisory committee on tax measures for persons with disabilities was given an 18 month mandate to provide advice to the federal ministers of finance and revenue. It was composed of members of organizations representing persons with disabilities, medical practitioners and private sector tax experts. The committee's final report, which was submitted in December 2004, contained 25 recommendations. The government is acting on the committee's report.

Budget 2005 also adds physiotherapists to the list of health professionals who can certify eligibility for the disability tax credit. It expands the list of expenses eligible for the disability support deduction to include costs such as job coaches, deaf and blind interveners and Braille note takers.

Budget 2005 also delivers much needed help to low and modest income families caring for children with disabilities. Based on the technical advisory committee report, the budget proposes to increase the child disability benefit to $2,000, up from $1,680, as of July 2005.

The government often cites huge numbers in the House, but the people back in the ridings want to know how they relate to their personal circumstances. I will be attending the upcoming annual general meeting of the Richmond County Disabled Association. It will be those people who will be able to speak to and give some terms of reference to this item.

In practical terms a family with one child with a severe disability and an income of $30,000 in 1999 would have obtained tax relief of about $720 under the disability tax credit. In 2005 that same family will receive more than $3,500 in support and tax relief, a fivefold increase. This includes $1,600 through the disability tax credit and supplement for children, plus $2,000 through the child disability benefit which was introduced in budget 2003. These initiatives build on past measures and illustrate the government's commitment to provide real assistance to Canadians with disabilities.

There is often the perception that our seniors population is forgotten in the rush of modern life. I would like to speak just for a moment about seniors. I have a great number of seniors in my constituency. We deal with a great number of seniors issues. Canada's support for seniors is one of the major success stories of government policy in the postwar era. At the same time, it is an area facing new challenges because of the rapidly growing aged population.

This demographic shift is not unique to Canada. The United States and several other developed nations are faced with the social and economic challenges of rapidly aging societies. This shift has serious implications and poses a serious challenge for Canada's economy because the aging of a nation's population can directly reduce the economic and living standards. This reality is especially relevant in Canada where the population is expected to age faster than those in other comparable nations. Simply put, as the percentage of our population above the age of 65 continues to grow, our health care system and other social services will have to deal with increasing pressure to meet demands of older Canadians.

Budget 2005 confirms $41.3 billion in new funding for health care over the next 10 years. It also makes significant investments across a wide range of policies that matter to seniors, from income security programs to retirement savings, assistance for people with disabilities and for caregivers, and support for voluntary sector activities by and in support of seniors.

There are a number of key measures in budget 2005 that are focused on our senior population. I would like to identify a few.

The budget proposes to increase the maximum monthly guaranteed income supplement benefit by $36 a month for singles and $58 a month for couples. It also proposes to expand funding for the new horizons for seniors program by an additional $5 million in 2005-06, $10 million in 2006-07, and raising to $15 million in 2007-08 and subsequent years, bringing the annual budget to $25 million. These increases will help meet a range of identified needs within the seniors community.

Finally, budget 2005 also proposes to set aside a further $13 million over five years for a national seniors secretariat which would be established within Social Development Canada to serve as a focal point for collaborative efforts to address the new challenges facing seniors.

I trust my remarks today have illustrated that the Government of Canada accords with the highest regard the social values embraced by the electorate. There is more to this budget than just numbers. Budget 2005 puts forward a number of social measures I am pleased to stand behind. I am proud to be a member of this government, a government that cares.

This is a good budget as it is, not only for the people of Newfoundland and Labrador and Nova Scotia but for all Canadians.

Budget Implementation Act, 2005Routine Proceedings

4:50 p.m.

Etobicoke North Ontario

Liberal

Roy Cullen LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank my colleague from Cape Breton—Canso for his illuminating remarks about the budget, Bill C-43 and Bill C-48, and why the Atlantic accord should remain part of Bill C-43.

I notice the member talked about the very significant benefits that are built into the budget for seniors. I could not agree with him more. That is why I would like to get on with passing it for a whole host of reasons. However, what it does for seniors is very important.

Our government is doubling the funding for a program called new horizons for seniors. I know it has been very well received in my riding. Seniors groups can do projects to help them feel more connected with the community. They can help to improve their health and general well-being and make them feel more a part of our culture in Canada. That is one aspect.

I know the budget also has an increase for the guaranteed income supplement. That is a important measure for seniors with fixed incomes and those who have low incomes. I would like to see these measures passed.

Would the member comment further on what benefits he sees with these programs and why we should get on with passing the budget bill?

Budget Implementation Act, 2005Routine Proceedings

4:50 p.m.

Liberal

Rodger Cuzner Liberal Cape Breton—Canso, NS

Mr. Speaker, my colleague asks specifically about the programs for seniors. Our seniors are Canadian citizens as well. There are some great programs in the budge for seniors.

All Canadians understand the importance of a balanced approach to handling the fiscal business of our country. They understand the importance of paying down the debt and the benefit that this will show their children, their children's children and future generations.

Canadians understand that it is imperative we invest in the environment. The budget has been referred to as probably the most green budget that has come before the Commons.

Core values such as investment in health care and education are values shared by all Canadians. Seniors stand behind them and they see the merit in them.

People had mentioned about their week back in the constituency. This is something I heard time and time again. First, my constituents were happy they were not going to the polls. Second, they want us to get on with the budget. It is a good budget, not only for Atlantic Canada, not only for Newfoundland and Labrador and Nova Scotia, but for all Canadians.

Budget Implementation Act, 2005Routine Proceedings

4:55 p.m.

Liberal

Paul Szabo Liberal Mississauga South, ON

Mr. Speaker, I want to congratulate the member on his balanced approach to the motion before us. The motion is to split an item out of the budget, which is very important to the member's region since it is the Atlantic accord.

The motion is rather fascinating in terms of strategic. I want to remind the House that there was a vote on Bill C-43 and all but the Bloc supported it. Now it is before committee.

I suspect that at committee it should receive full support of at least all the parties, except the Bloc, which will get it back to the House. Effectively the intent of the motion before us today is to split it out and get the Atlantic accord part in the House. We can get the entire budget bill back to the House just as quickly with the cooperation of the members. I am sure the member understands this.

The other part of this which is of great concern to me, and I am not sure if it is of concern to the member, is that the official opposition also voted against Bill C-48 which was a confidence motion which would have brought the House down and sent us to an election. To have this motion today to split out the Atlantic accord seems to be contradictory to their intent to defeat the government and to bring us back into an election. Could the member comment on that?

Budget Implementation Act, 2005Routine Proceedings

4:55 p.m.

Liberal

Rodger Cuzner Liberal Cape Breton—Canso, NS

Mr. Speaker, as my respected colleague identified, this is important to the people in Atlantic Canada, in Newfoundland and Labrador and in Nova Scotia.

The accord would provide $800 million to the province of Nova Scotia. I might add that this would be an upfront payment, once the budget is passed.

This was an example of how our Prime Minister went over and beyond. His intent was to honour the 100% offshore royalties in both provinces. In fact, he negotiated that there would be an upfront payment. It is wise and I recommend that the premier of the province of Nova Scotia takes that upfront payment and applies it to the debt. Nova Scotia carries one of the greatest per capita debts in the country. If he applies it to the debt, that will result in increased activity of about $50 million in transportation, in roads and highways, in education, in all aspects of administration through the province of Nova Scotia. We see that as imperative.

I am still perplexed, as a member from Atlantic Canada, about why we do not have the members from Newfoundland and Labrador supporting the budget. Back in March the member for St. John's South—Mount Pearl said in the House to the members of the Liberal government that we could never turn our backs on our province on an important issue like this, even if it meant that our party said tough stuff and we would sit in the last row or the last seat. He encouraged us to make the tough decisions. They have the opportunity now to make that decision to support the budget. Let us make sure we get it through committee, back in the House and passed.

Budget Implementation Act, 2005Routine Proceedings

4:55 p.m.

Liberal

Russ Powers Liberal Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON

Mr. Speaker, my hon. colleague represents his area extremely well from the elements of our maritime climate. Obviously, the Atlantic accord is very important to him.

Earlier he touched on elements of the budget that were in addition to this. Perhaps he would like to build on elements of the budget that would benefit his region. Could he comment on why there cannot be a stand alone and why we need to support the budget as a whole?

Budget Implementation Act, 2005Routine Proceedings

5 p.m.

Liberal

Rodger Cuzner Liberal Cape Breton—Canso, NS

Mr. Speaker, I spoke about several investments in the budget such as the investment in the military and about the huge impact the military had in the province of Nova Scotia, more particular, in the Shearwater, Dartmouth, Halifax area. We have a disproportionate number of military people serving in Nova Scotia, but that activity is really an economic generator, an economic engine.

The new investment in budget 2005 will be significant for quality of life issues and for equipping our men and women in the armed forces. It also will generate additional economic activity through fisheries and oceans, things that we have fought for and have represented to the minister and to the department on behalf of the fisheries and oceans committee and as individual members.

The budget is riddled with these types of initiatives such as changes to the Employment Insurance Act. I come from an area that is very much coastal. It is not that our workers are seasonal, but our industries are seasonal. People who work in those industries often find themselves in a challenging position come the end of a particular season. There are $350 million in changes to the Employment Insurance Act. Those are all important aspects of the budget for which we really hope to garner support. We want to get it through committee, get it back in the House and get it passed.

Budget Implementation Act, 2005Routine Proceedings

5 p.m.

Etobicoke North Ontario

Liberal

Roy Cullen LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to enter the debate on severing the Atlantic accords from Bill C-43, which would not be very wise thing to do. That is why I am happy to contribute to the discussion today.

Members of the Conservative Party, who used to be members of the Alliance Party or the Reform Party before the merger, often stood up in this place when it came to votes and their whip would say that members would be voting this way or that way unless otherwise advised by their constituents.

The Conservative Party, or its predecessors the Alliance and the Reform, prides itself on being close to the people. Last week we were told that those members were going to listen to what their constituents had to say. I have to conclude that they are not very good listeners.

I have talked to many Canadians in eastern Canada, western Canada, Atlantic Canada, northern Canada and elsewhere. With the exception of a few, they all agreed that the vote last week was a momentous vote. A lot of people watched it. Hundreds of people were waiting for us to exit the chamber. They were interested in the results of that historic vote in which the Speaker broke the tie.

What I heard from my constituents and from people across Canada was that a lot of time was taken away from the business of the House to focus on that confidence vote. We have had the vote and most Canadians now want us to get down to the business of governing and to make this Parliament work.

Conservative members pride themselves on being close to the ground. That may be true in some parts of Alberta and some parts of western Canada. However, with all due respect, when the election happens, it will be decided essentially in Ontario and Quebec, and that will not go down very well with members on the other side of the House. Those members should call up their friends in Ontario, Quebec and Atlantic Canada to find out what they think. I think they would find that Canadians do not want an election right now. Those members are not listening. They do not have their ears to the ground. Some friends of mine who are more conservative in their way of thinking do not want an election now.

We are prepared to have an election. My colleagues and I are ready. We can go any time. I do not get obsessed with polling results and I am sure my colleagues on this side of the House do not get obsessed with polling results either, but if we look at the results we would find our party is doing quite well in the polls, especially in Ontario. The reason for that is obvious. People in Ontario are not attracted to the policies of the Conservative Party and they are not engaged with the leader of that party.

These are truisms. I am not saying something to incite people. Anyone who does not know that Canadians do not want an election, that they are not attracted to the policies of the Conservative Party and that they are not getting a lot of resonance from the leader of the Conservative Party must have their head buried in the ground.

Canadians know we had a confidence vote last week and what a shambles it was. They turned on their televisions and saw members running back and forth, not getting down to the business they were elected to do, to serve in the Parliament of Canada, to make Parliament work. Canadians want us to get down to work.

I naively thought that when I came back to Ottawa after the week break, we would actually deal with the budget. The budget has some amazing elements to it, and it is supported by Canadians. In fact, it was supported by the Conservative Party until those members started to read every morning in the National Post about the day to day testimony at the Gomery inquiry and then they would bring it to the floor of the House.

People watched that on television and said it was not very nice. Of course it was not nice and that is why the Prime Minister called for the Gomery inquiry, so that he could get to the bottom of it, hold people accountable, and make the policy changes required.

Suddenly, the Conservatives found that when all these issues were on the floor of the House of Commons and people were watching them on television, they were going up in the polls somewhat. Is that not interesting? They said, “Let's have an election now because we might be able to win”, forgetting the fact that Canadians said that they wanted to make this minority Parliament work. It is tougher to get things done in minority parliaments, but they can work. In fact, I and many members have seen it happen.

The justice committee dealt with a bill that focused on DNA. That is why this bill should not be split because the committee system is working very well. We passed a bill dealing with DNA. We all put a little water in our wine and got unanimous consent in the House to speed it through the Senate. This Parliament can work if we put our minds to it, but it is not working because of these reckless motions that focus on partisan interests in Atlantic Canada.

The Conservative Party is very nervous about losing the support of its Atlantic caucus members. Conservatives say it will be a great idea to split the bill because then they could fast track the Atlantic accord through the House of Commons and the Senate. I ask everyone, what would that accomplish? We would end up with part of a budget bill and the key elements of Bill C-43, of which the Atlantic accord is a very important part of course, but there are other very important parts to Bill C-43.

My colleague, the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Finance, highlighted some of them, but I would like to come back to them because they are very important. There is one part of Bill C-43 that I would like to see fast tracked. Maybe we could bring a motion to fast track the excise tax moving to cities and communities.

I live in the city of Toronto. My colleague, the Minister of State for Infrastructure and Communities, has basically put this together. We can move what I believe to be $200 million per year, once fully implemented, to the city of Toronto. It could use that money to fight crime, to build infrastructure and public transit, and to have cleaner water and air. We could use that money. In fact, that is step two of what has already been done. The government wisely eliminated the GST for municipalities. For the city of Toronto, that meant another $55 million a year it could use to deal with the issues facing large cities.

I would like to hive off that part of the budget. I am sure members would like to carve out other parts of the budget and fast track them too. Pretty soon 90% of the bill would be fast tracked. Then it would not be fast tracked anymore, it would be slow tracked because there are too many parts of the bill being fast tracked. This is a slippery slope.

Any member of the House who has been here long enough knows that one does not start splitting bills for the convenience of some members of the Atlantic caucus of the Conservative Party. The Conservatives want to split it so they can speak to their constituents in Atlantic Canada. It has nothing to do with what is good for Canada. It has nothing to do with the benefits of the budget bill, which are so important for Canadians.

I would also like to see the budget pass because there is a large investment in national defence. As part of this budget, there is $1 billion that will go into our national security agenda. We often hear members opposite talk about our borders, security and terrorists. Now is the time to put their money where they mouths are and pass this bill. Let us pass this bill today, never mind fast tracking.

In fact, by arguing that we should split this bill we have wasted maybe a week or two. We could have had this bill sent to the other place in a heartbeat if members opposite would support it. They know that. All we are doing is delaying and delaying when in fact we could meet the agenda of establishing the Atlantic accord by including it in Bill C-43 and passing it, and passing Bill C-48 expeditiously.

Let me tell members something else that I like about Bill C-43. Bill C-43 implements the Kyoto accord. It builds in a lot of market measures and incentives, so that we can actually meet these very ambitious goals that we have set. There would be a $1 billion fund, for example, for competing ideas on how to eliminate and reduce greenhouse gases. That is another part of this budget. Maybe there are some other colleagues who would like to take that part of Bill C-43 and separate it out, sever it and fast track it.

This is not the way business is done in the House of Commons. Instead of sitting here and debating severing the Atlantic accord from Bill C-43, we could actually be passing Bill C-43 and Bill C-48 and delivering all those measures.

Another issue that is very important in my riding is child care. I have a lot of, not to be sexist, female members in my riding who come to my office and say that they have a two-income family, but cannot get out and work properly because they do not have proper day care in Ontario.

We now have an agreement with Ontario which we could pass today if the members opposite had the political will, instead of trying to finesse little points here there and sever this and that. Just pass the bill. We could get on with it. We could deliver child care. We could deliver all the benefits that are embedded in this budget.

I think there is another point that is often forgotten in this House when we have these debates and that is, the underpinnings behind budget 2005. Allow me to take members through some of the context of this budget.

The first item that immediately pops out is that this is the eighth consecutive surplus that this government is delivering. Against all the industrialized economies in the world, we are considered an economic darling. The markets think we are an economic darling because of what we have done, what our finance minister did, and what this government continues to do. We have had consistent growth and we continue to have consistent growth of 3% per year, which is unsurpassed in the industrialized world.

We have unemployment down to levels of 6.8%, which is a five-year low. Could we do better? Of course we could. We could do better if we could pass this budget because there are measures in here to help Canadians get into the labour market. There are measures in this budget that would help us bring down the unemployment rate from the low level of 6.8% to even lower if these people on the other side would stop debating about severing this and that and just pass the budget.

There are a few other contextual elements that I need to speak about in terms of our fiscal progress. We have low interest rates. We have low inflation. What does that mean? That means that there are many Canadians who otherwise would not be able to purchase a home who are able to purchase a home. We see people getting out of their rental accommodation and buying homes. The construction sector is booming. That is contributing to our economic growth.

We are paying down the debt. Members opposite talk about the surpluses, how the surpluses are a bad thing, and how we have not estimated within a few hundred dollars here and there. The reality is, and we know that in this House, if the revenues are understated by, let us say, 1% a year and the expenditures are understated by 1% per year, that would create a flux of about $3 billion to $4 billion in the annual surplus. So this is not an exact science.

However, I would rather have, and I am sure that all of us would rather have, a surplus than a deficit. Is that not so? I think so. We want to have a surplus. We are consistently having surpluses. We are paying down the debt with those surpluses. The surpluses are not an end in themselves.

We are below less than 40% debt to GDP ratio which is well within the range of what is considered acceptable. In fact, we are going to go further. We are going to go to 25% debt to GDP. What does that mean? That means, for example, that today as we speak, as we take up time talking about splitting budget bills, and if members opposite are going to waste the time of the House, I am going to have my say as well, there is in excess of $3 billion a year that taxpayers in Canada are saving each and every year because of the $56 billion that we have paid down against the debt. It is in excess of $3 billion annually.

By the way, that is a permanent annuity. That is $3 billion each and every year into the future. As we pay down more debt that $3 billion will grow. What can we do with that $3 billion? We can invest in the environment, national defence, national security, health care, post-secondary education and seniors. These are the kinds of investments we are making. That is the kind of flexibility that we have when we have budgetary surpluses.

The mantra of the Conservative Party is to cut taxes. It is like a broken record. We went through this in the province of Ontario. We had Mike Harris and Ernie Eves. What did they do? They cut taxes to a point where they could not sustain the social and economic programs of the province of Ontario. Guess what. We then had a new premier and a new finance minister who came in and tried to say it was a fiscal imbalance. I think they have been listening to the Bloc Québécois on this fiscal imbalance terminology.

The current party at Queen's Park has inherited a structural deficit caused by excessive tax cuts that went beyond the fiscal capacity of the province of Ontario. What does it do? It says that it will lay that problem at the feet of the federal government.

When our government came into power in 1993, we faced a $42 billion deficit. Did we stand around and blame everyone, point fingers and say that we cannot do this, we cannot do that, it is not our fault,. and it was their fault? We did not do that, although we could have laid it at the feet of Brian Mulroney. That is what we should have done. I am sure it has come up in debate from time to time.

The point is we got on with the business of eliminating our deficit, of cutting expenditures, of dealing with the fiscal challenges that we had to face. There were no excuses and no scapegoats. We got on with the business of dealing with it head on like mature adults. That is what we are going to continue to do.

That is why when I stand up in this place to talk about severing the Atlantic accord I find myself in a childish discourse because we should be passing Bill C-43 and Bill C-48 so that Canadians can reap the benefits of the budget package which has so many benefits, some of which I have described.

I could go on and on, but I only have one minute. Therefore, I will wrap up. I would like to suggest to the House that instead of us debating these moot points, why do we not get on with the business of government, with the business of Parliament, and pass these budget bills which Canadians want.

If members opposite want an election, the Prime Minister has said they will have an election. They will have an election this year, 30 days after the Gomery inquiry reports. We will have an election.

Canadians do not want an election now. They want us to get down to the business of government and manage the affairs of the nation. For that reason and for many others I will not be supporting the motion.

Budget Implementation Act, 2005Routine Proceedings

5:20 p.m.

Bloc

Marc Lemay Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC

Mr. Speaker, I have listened very carefully to my colleague's lengthy rhetoric. I could ask him close to a dozen questions but there is no time. What is rather surprising is that we are being asked to support a budget, to adopt it immediately and then, all of a sudden, are told that there is still money to be spent from the 2003-04 budget. The 2004-05 budget was accepted by the Governor General on May 11.

Everyone, every Canadian and every Quebecker, has questions. I have a good example of that for my hon. colleague. Two weeks ago, the Minister of the Environment came to my riding to announce that broadband would finally be coming to the riding of Abitibi—Témiscamingue and our entire region. Great, except that—

Budget Implementation Act, 2005Routine Proceedings

5:20 p.m.

Some hon. members

Hear, hear!

Budget Implementation Act, 2005Routine Proceedings

5:20 p.m.

Bloc

Marc Lemay Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC

Mr. Speaker, there go the Liberals. Applauding, but for money that was already announced three years ago. They have been asked to add more to it, but they have refused. This is last year's money.

This is my question for my hon. colleague. Perhaps my colleague from Pontiac could ask the same thing, since he is from the same side. They have to be asked to spend everything they have committed to for 2003-2004, before starting to spend for the next six years. That is important.

What I would like to ask the hon. member is whether he can tell us when they are going to spend the $2.3 billion left in last year's budget, that is, the one for 2003-04? When are we going to see that money spent, before we adopt this budget?

Budget Implementation Act, 2005Routine Proceedings

5:20 p.m.

Liberal

Roy Cullen Liberal Etobicoke North, ON

Mr. Speaker, the Bloc member is incorrect. For example, the 2004 budget was adopted by the House of Commons in four or six weeks. It can be done quite quickly, if members are willing.

One of the problems is that some of the members opposite do not understand the idea of a budgetary surplus. Once there is a budgetary surplus at the end of a fiscal year, which we have had now for seven years and going into our eighth, it is not a question of then spending the surplus. It is like a balance sheet.

I am a chartered accountant, myself, and I have trouble understanding these concepts.

However if there is a surplus at the end of the year it is not as if we can go and spend it. We start a new fiscal year. As I said earlier, having a budgetary surplus is a good thing because it means we can pay down some debt and help with Canada's debt to GDP ratio which is improving considerably. We are going to get down to about a 25% debt to GDP ratio very soon.

Budget Implementation Act, 2005Routine Proceedings

5:25 p.m.

Liberal

Don Boudria Liberal Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON

Mr. Speaker, I congratulate my colleague for this absolutely fantastic speech. I know many members and, no doubt, Canadians generally would want me to say this because it truly was.

Does my colleague see, as I do, that there is something a little confusing about the opposition's position on Bill C-43? On the one hand, last week opposition members voted in favour of having the budget passed. This week they have asked to sever parts from that which they were in favour of only a little bit more than a week ago.

Now that is a little hard for Canadians to understand. If one is in favour of the whole bill, then presumably one is in favour of whatever is contained in the whole bill. If one is in favour of the whole budget implementation bill, then what possible benefit would there be to segregate anything from it and to pass it apart rather than to pass the whole bill at the same time so that Canadians generally could enjoy the benefits that are in the Atlantic accord but in the other components of that excellent piece of legislation as well?

Second, perhaps he could add to the comments made earlier by the Bloc Québécois member, as to whether the government will spend the money allocated in last year's budget.

The member on the opposite side of the House has forgotten—and I ask my colleague to speak more about this—that many budgets include multi-year programs. This does not mean that all the money set out in the budget will be spent this year. Some budgets have been spread over one, two, three or four years. Some funding is even spread over a five-year period.

I invite my colleague to talk more about this.