House of Commons Hansard #120 of the 38th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was ndp.

Topics

An Act to Authorize the Minister of Finance to Make Certain PaymentsGovernment Orders

4:15 p.m.

Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine Québec

Liberal

Marlene Jennings LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister (Canada—U.S.)

Mr. Speaker, the questions and comments that just took place were quite interesting.

It is my honour and privilege to rise this evening to speak to Bill C-48, which I believe is a concrete example of this Liberal government's commitment to continue to invest in Canada's social foundations and the commitment of this government to make minority Parliament work.

I think it is a strong indication to all Canadians, ordinary Canadians, that the Liberal government, with the assistance of the NDP, has put the interests of ordinary Canadians before partisanship, before personal political interest, before--

An Act to Authorize the Minister of Finance to Make Certain PaymentsGovernment Orders

4:15 p.m.

An hon. member

Saving your own skin.

An Act to Authorize the Minister of Finance to Make Certain PaymentsGovernment Orders

4:15 p.m.

Liberal

Marlene Jennings Liberal Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC

The member opposite says saving our own skin. It has nothing to do with saving our own skin.

It has to do with building on Bill C-43, the government's February-March budget, which already had increased investments in these four areas of affordable housing, post-secondary education, the environment and foreign aid.

With the assistance of the NDP, to ensure that we continue to build on and improve the social foundations here in Canada in these four crucial areas, Bill C-48 was given birth. It was not a painful birth. Most women who have been through childbirth would say that it was a relatively easy birth, because it built on values that the Liberal Party of Canada holds dear, that the Liberal government holds dear.

I want to speak on two specific areas. I wish to speak on the affordable housing initiative and the increased investment into that and on the environment.

Why would I want to speak on those two issues? My riding of Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, which, since the electoral boundaries reform, also includes what is the city of Dorval, includes some areas which have been deemed in the province of Quebec to be the highest poverty areas, the areas with the highest level of dropouts and the greatest need for social housing and affordable housing.

I can give one concrete example that is helping several hundred families in NDG, families that would not have had access to social and affordable housing had it not been for this government's reinvestment and re-engagement in affordable housing and social housing and with the homelessness initiative. I want to talk about the Benny Farm veterans housing.

Benny Farm, to many across Canada, is very familiar. It was veterans housing that was built after World War II to house veterans and their families. Over the years, we have had fewer veterans to live in that housing. The housing, which was owned and run by CMHC, was beginning to fall into disrepair because investments were not being made in upkeep and buildings were being left vacant and actually becoming derelict.

Back in the 1980s, CMHC began a whole process. It wanted to get a zoning bylaw to literally demolish all of the buildings to build high-rises, to sell the land to private developers for luxurious apartments and condominiums. Ordinary citizens in NDG and across Montreal protested and were successful in blocking that kind of development for over a decade.

My predecessor, who represented the NDG part of this riding, the Hon. Warren Allmand, was part of that citizen engagement to try to get the federal government to go back into affordable housing, to go back into social housing and ensure that people in Montreal would have a venue where they could actually live, work and raise their families and not have buildings falling down.

When I was first elected in 1997, that was one of the first issues that I engaged in. I participated with the community activists and representatives of ordinary citizens in NDG in order to convince the government to transfer and sell the property to Canada Lands and to get the government to start a homelessness initiative and an affordable housing initiative. Thanks be to God, in 2000 the government made that commitment and began those investments.

As a result of that, today those buildings are in the process of being renovated. Some of the renovations have actually been completed. They have been purchased by cooperative housing. They have been purchased by organizations that work with and provide social housing for young, unmarried women or single parents who are in school but have to provide for their children. Actual families are living there besides the veterans and their relatives and the living survivors of veterans, who are living in new buildings that have been created.

Benny Farm, which has become a model of citizen engagement on the housing issue, would not have existed had it not been for the government's commitment to Canadians.

I want to thank the NDP for also having the issue of housing close to its heart, because it has helped us further our commitment in the area of affordable housing. On the issue of homelessness, that is part of affordable housing. It is part of ensuring that ordinary Canadians do not have to live on the street and that they have real solutions, durable solutions, particularly for those who suffer from mental illness.

I can give another example of an organization, this time in Lachine, which only began in 1997-98 to deal with residents who suffer from mental illness. One of the main problems we have with regard to this part of our population is that at times they are hospitalized for significant periods of time in order to follow treatment. When those individuals come out of the hospital they no longer have any housing and they end up on the street.

There is now an initiative, thanks to the homelessness initiative that the Minister of Labour and Housing, formerly the minister for housing and homelessness, was involved in. A 24 unit building is now going up in Lachine in order to ensure that residents in that borough who suffer from mental illness, and who as a result of the effects of their mental illness no longer have housing, will have housing. They will have the social services on site in order to assist them in continuing to take an active and healthy part in the ordinary life and society of that community.

The additional investment that Bill C-48 foresees for housing is extremely important. It is something that ordinary Canadians want to see. It is something that Quebeckers want to see.

The last piece that I want to address is the issue of the environment. I am so pleased that the government has ratified Kyoto, that the government has come out with its green plan, its action plan to implement Kyoto, and I am so pleased that both Bill C-43 and Bill C-48 involve billions of dollars to ensure that we meet our Kyoto protocol commitments, including investing in sustainable energy sources such as wind power.

I want to thank the members of the chamber who have been here to listen to this. I do not thank those who heckled, but I do thank those who listened attentively.

I want to thank all the members on this side of the House, which includes the Liberals and the New Democrats, for their support of Bill C-48. I admonish the Bloc members who will not be supporting Bill C-48 unless they change their minds, because there are good things for Quebeckers. Anyone who claims to have Quebec and Quebeckers' interests at heart will be supporting Bill C-48.

An Act to Authorize the Minister of Finance to Make Certain PaymentsGovernment Orders

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

Colin Carrie Conservative Oshawa, ON

Mr. Speaker, I thank the member for her comments, especially the one about affordable housing. I was wondering if she was aware that back in 1998 the Liberal government put aside $2.2 billion for affordable housing and there is still $1.8 billion left in the kitty.

The problem is the way the system has been put together. The province has to match the federal money to put forth these projects. Because of the Liberal cutbacks, many of the provinces do not have the money to provide affordable housing for Canadians who need it. Also, the way that the housing initiative is set up now is very wasteful. In other words, a lot more money is being spent to build affordable housing that could be done in the private sector.

I ask the member, why throw more money into a system that does not appear to be working when, because there is a glut of real estate, we could immediately be giving tax credits to seniors and people who actually need it and get them into affording housing right away?

An Act to Authorize the Minister of Finance to Make Certain PaymentsGovernment Orders

4:25 p.m.

Liberal

Marlene Jennings Liberal Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC

Mr. Speaker, I would invite the hon. member from the Conservative Party to do a little more homework and research. If he did so, he would know that the federal government's affordable housing program in fact invites and encourages private developers to be involved in partnership in affordable housing. In my riding, Benny Farm has private developers who are involved in building affordable housing. Private developers are there.

It also encourages partnership with co-ops. It encourages partnerships with municipalities and municipal governments that run their own social housing. It encourages partnership with, for instance, Habitat for Humanity. The great thing about the affordable housing program and about the homelessness initiative is that they allow for partnerships from all interested stakeholders, including the private sector.

I can only speak for Quebec. It is working in Quebec. Housing is going up. There are real people who are living in that housing, who did not have housing before or who were paying upwards of 50% of their net income and in some cases gross income on housing. Now they are paying no more than 25% or 30% of their income on housing. It is working. I do not know about where the member comes from, but it is working in Quebec.

My understanding is that the agreement has just been signed in Ontario. It will be working in Ontario with cooperative housing. If it is not working already, it will be working in B.C., Saskatchewan, Manitoba, New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, Newfoundland and Labrador, the Northwest Territories, Nunavut and Yukon. Maybe the only place it is not working is in Alberta and perhaps it is because of the Conservatives.

An Act to Authorize the Minister of Finance to Make Certain PaymentsGovernment Orders

4:30 p.m.

NDP

Alexa McDonough NDP Halifax, NS

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member has shown herself to be genuinely committed to the issues that we are discussing.

I do not want to shock anybody but I actually believe that the question raised by the Conservative member a moment ago is a serious one that we need to be concerned about with respect to the delivery of federal housing initiatives.

I speak from a Nova Scotian perspective when I say that notwithstanding the commitment of the federal Liberal government to finally allocate some dollars for genuine affordable housing construction, I am not talking about the homelessness initiatives. I do not want to be unfair, but the homelessness initiatives have kept social housing groups in a state of hope and highly motivated to try to keep the pressure on and keep moving in the direction of getting the government to take substantive affordable housing initiatives, but it has not resulted in the creation of a lot of affordable housing. It just has not.

We are talking now about affordable housing. Nova Scotia has barely anted up a cent with the result that a lot of federal dollars allocated for social--

An Act to Authorize the Minister of Finance to Make Certain PaymentsGovernment Orders

4:30 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

The hon. parliamentary secretary.

An Act to Authorize the Minister of Finance to Make Certain PaymentsGovernment Orders

4:30 p.m.

Liberal

Marlene Jennings Liberal Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the question from the member for Halifax on the issue of whether or not real housing has been created under the federal government's affordable housing program.

I would like to point out that the original affordable housing program required that the federal government actually negotiate and sign agreements with the individual provincial governments. Those governments in many cases had their own programs and might have been better placed to determine where the needs were within their provinces. It also required matching funds from the provincial governments. There were situations where certain provincial governments were either not interested or were unable to match the funds.

Under Bill C-48 there is no requirement for matching funds.

An Act to Authorize the Minister of Finance to Make Certain PaymentsGovernment Orders

4:30 p.m.

Conservative

Gary Lunn Conservative Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC

Mr. Speaker, on behalf of my constituents, I am pleased to speak to Bill C-48. This is the NDP-Liberal budget that was concocted in a hotel room in Toronto. We understand Mr. Hargrove had a lot to do with it. I do want to get to the substance of the budget and why we oppose it.

An Act to Authorize the Minister of Finance to Make Certain PaymentsGovernment Orders

June 21st, 2005 / 4:30 p.m.

NDP

Bev Desjarlais NDP Churchill, MB

Move that tape ahead.

An Act to Authorize the Minister of Finance to Make Certain PaymentsGovernment Orders

4:30 p.m.

NDP

Alexa McDonough NDP Halifax, NS

Get to the next point, because we are tired of hearing that false assertion again and again and again.

An Act to Authorize the Minister of Finance to Make Certain PaymentsGovernment Orders

4:30 p.m.

Conservative

Gary Lunn Conservative Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC

Mr. Speaker, I will just let them finish.

It is important that we bring the debate back to the facts. The truth is that when the government introduced the original budget, Bill C-43, it had absolutely no interest in anything in this present budget bill. The Minister of Finance is on record as saying it could not be cherry-picked, that these things could not be put in.

The NDP was pressuring the government on some of these issues and I understand why, but when the Liberals introduced the first budget, they said it could not be done. We should make no mistake about it, this budget was only introduced for one single, solitary purpose, which was 19 votes to keep the government alive. There was no other reason--

An Act to Authorize the Minister of Finance to Make Certain PaymentsGovernment Orders

4:30 p.m.

NDP

Alexa McDonough NDP Halifax, NS

It is about cooperating and getting things done.

An Act to Authorize the Minister of Finance to Make Certain PaymentsGovernment Orders

4:30 p.m.

Conservative

Gary Lunn Conservative Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC

Mr. Speaker, the member for Halifax loves to heckle and so does the rest of the NDP. If those members would give me the respect I gave them when they were speaking, it would be much appreciated.

This budget was brought in at a cost of almost a quarter of a billion dollars per vote. If the Liberals took four items out of our platform and tried to buy their way into preserving the government, and I do not care what four items they were, it would be an unconscionable way for a government to stay in power, to buy its way into power.

Look at what we have witnessed in the House in the last six months. Primarily there is the sponsorship scandal. The facts speak for themselves. We have heard the testimony. We have all heard the evidence about the millions and millions of dollars that were funnelled to the Liberal Party. The response of the government, which was on the verge of being defeated, to the largest scandal in Canadian political history was to take more taxpayers' money to buy more votes. It is reprehensible. It should not happen. I will stand up and absolutely support the Conservative Party in doing everything possible to oppose this budget.

Program spending is wildly out of control right now. The government will drive our economy into the ground with $4.6 billion, a budget--

An Act to Authorize the Minister of Finance to Make Certain PaymentsGovernment Orders

4:30 p.m.

Liberal

Paul MacKlin Liberal Northumberland—Quinte West, ON

Impale yourself on your sword.

An Act to Authorize the Minister of Finance to Make Certain PaymentsGovernment Orders

4:30 p.m.

NDP

Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC

That you wanted to give to the corporate sector. You just wanted to shovel it off the back of a truck.

An Act to Authorize the Minister of Finance to Make Certain PaymentsGovernment Orders

4:30 p.m.

NDP

Alexa McDonough NDP Halifax, NS

Show some respect for the facts.

An Act to Authorize the Minister of Finance to Make Certain PaymentsGovernment Orders

4:30 p.m.

Conservative

Gary Lunn Conservative Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC

Mr. Speaker, again, I will ask the member for Halifax and the rest of her colleagues to give me the same respect I gave her when I sat here and listened to her speech.

The budget is one page long in English and in French and spends $4.6 billion. The last time we saw that type of vague legislation was with the gun registry and the sponsorship scandal. Of course, no one knew the details of that. Spending went completely out of control. There was no accountability. There were no checks. For the NDP members to actually believe that this will happen is incredible. I understand that all of a sudden they have become a player in Parliament with their new-found friends the Liberals, but I absolutely 100% have to oppose the way this happened.

We could look at some of the substance in it. Let me just talk about the Liberal record on the environment. Kyoto was signed almost 10 years ago and CO

2

gases are going up. There are more problems with smog in our major urban centres today than ever before. Show me the results of what the government has done in 10 years on the environment. It is zero. It is not there, and it wants us to give it a $4.6 billion blank cheque supposedly to spend on the environment.

Show me a specific program, specific legislation where we can measure and see tangible results. That is something I would be willing to support. However, the blank cheques that the NDP wants to give to the government, I do not think so.

On training programs, I want to remind the members opposite that it was the Conservative Party, on an amendment to the throne speech, that said we needed to reduce EI premiums to improve employment for Canadians. The EI surplus is $46 billion. We do not need new money. Maybe we need some honest accounting on the money that is there and ensure that it gets to the workers.

There is a lot we can do, but the NDP budget is not one of them. I go back to British Columbia, when we had eight years the NDP in power. Our economy went into the ground. We sat with deficits year after year.

The Minister of Health, who is a senior member of cabinet, had his hand in building the fast ferries. A half a billion dollars of hard earned taxpayer dollars was shovelled away. It was gone; it evaporated.

That is the type of things we will see out of this budget. There are no specifics, no programs. The Liberals spent $4.6 billion in 400 words. Are they completely naive to think that there will be an ounce of accountability, considering this government's record?

I fully support going to the wall on this legislation, opposing it at every opportunity we can. We have a constitutional responsibility to hold the government to account. That is what we are doing. The legislation is so fundamentally flawed. It was introduced for the most callous reasons, to prop up a government so it could cling to power.

The short answer is that the NDP members were bought for $4.6 billion. They sold their souls. All of a sudden they think they are the new found friends of the Liberal Party

I look forward to the campaign at some point in time. I understand maybe it will be later this year, maybe it will be early next year. The Prime Minister said that it would be within 30 days of Justice Gomery's report. If the Prime Minister wants to have an election on this budget, then let us have one. The NDP and the Liberals can get together at the press conferences and defend their collective budgets. They are fundamentally flawed.

Where are the details on housing? What can we expect? Let us give these Liberals a blank cheque to spend $4.6 billion. What do we think that they would give the Canadian people?

How about seeing some specifics on tax reductions? How about making it more affordable for first home buyers to get into the market so people can succeed. How about putting in money for co-ops and other types of housing programs. There are no substantive details in this budget. It is 400 words for $4.6 billion.

One has to be crazy to support a budget that is this vague, not to mention how it was concocted, in a hotel room with Buzz Hargrove in Toronto to dream up a $4.6 billion deal. The backbenchers of the Liberal Party did not get that much say in their own budget.

Take the Minister of Finance at his word “no, we cannot cherry pick or no, we cannot change it”. If this were really the intention of the Liberals, why was it not in the first budget? It was not there because they do not believe it. It was not there because they have no intentions of dealing with it.

Just look at the facts as to how this thing came to light. Look at what is in it. It is an absolute joke. In eight years as a member of Parliament, I have never seen anything in my life that is so pathetic. It is ridiculous to take $4.6 billion on one piece of paper and want us to embrace it. They have to be kidding.

We will fight for every single Canadian across the country to ensure that their hard earned tax dollars are spent wisely and in an accountable way. We will challenge the government. I am willing to debate the government on this legislation any day. I will go toe to toe with any Liberal in any election, and for that matter the Liberals new found friends in the NDP. They can have their coalition, they can have the new Minister of Health from British Columbia because they are all cut from the same cloth and Canadians deserve a hell of a lot better.

An Act to Authorize the Minister of Finance to Make Certain PaymentsGovernment Orders

4:40 p.m.

NDP

Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC

Mr. Speaker, I listened with great interest to the hon. member's speech, particularly the portion around British Columbia. As the hon. well knows now, two-thirds of his federal riding are now represented by B.C. NDP MLAs. The reason why is very clear. It is because the Gordon Campbell Liberals in B.C. have the largest deficits in British Columbian history and the NDP balanced the books in B.C. That is an important lesson I think his constituents are sending him.

It is also important to note that the worst record in fiscal management in Canadian history was the Mulroney Conservatives. They were talking earlier today about what a wonderful job Brian Mulroney did and they embraced his record. His record was the largest deficits and the worst fiscal period returns in Canadian history.

It is not just from 15 years ago that we see this fiscal ineptitude of the Conservatives. We know that last June we had the largest, most bloated political platform in Canadian history from the Conservatives again. There were $86 billion in spending promises and that was before the leader of the Conservatives threw the aircraft carrier at the last minute. We never did find out what the price tag was for that. It was the most expensive and most financially irresponsible political platform in Canadian history. That is the background of the Conservatives.

I agree with some of his comments about the environment and the Liberal inaction on it and on housing and poverty. That is why the 19 members in this corner of the House got to work to change that so this Parliament would deal with those issues.

He mentioned the term ridiculous. I want to ask the hon. member whether he thought these comments were ridiculous:

I don't think there's anything wrong with blowing the whistle and I don't think there's anything wrong with somebody trying to bribe you. What's wrong is if you take the bribe and he didn't.

That was a comment from the leader of the Conservative Party that it was okay to offer but not to take bribes. The comments were mentioned in the newspaper this morning.

An Act to Authorize the Minister of Finance to Make Certain PaymentsGovernment Orders

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

Gary Lunn Conservative Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC

Mr. Speaker, those comments are absurd. They are just ridiculous.

Maybe those members could learn to just be quiet. I gave the member the respect to listen to his questions and if he would give me the same I would appreciate it.

It is absurd if he wants to believe that the NDP performance in British Columbia is something of which to be proud. I would be happy to debate any member of the NDP at any time. Its record was abysmal in British Columbia. Now the NDP members are teamed up with the federal Liberals. We are seeing wildly out of control spending like we saw in British Columbia which drove our economy into the ground. Ask anybody in British Columbia what those eight years were like. They were absolutely an unmitigated disaster.

The member stood up and said the Conservatives wanted to buy an aircraft carrier. The is just an absolute outright lie. It is absolutely false and I would stand and say that on the record. If he wants to stand in the House--

An Act to Authorize the Minister of Finance to Make Certain PaymentsGovernment Orders

4:45 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

I would respectfully ask the member for Saanich—Gulf Islands to withdraw the word “lie”. He could get into debate but he certainly--

An Act to Authorize the Minister of Finance to Make Certain PaymentsGovernment Orders

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

Gary Lunn Conservative Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC

Mr. Speaker, I could withdraw the word “lie”. How about making statements that are absolutely false because that is all that is. Every Canadian knows that it was just something that the Liberals put in a TV commercial. It is important that the record be factual.

We stand up in the House. We debate the issues. At least be factually correct and not go off on some long rant which is absolutely meaningless and wastes everyone's time.

An Act to Authorize the Minister of Finance to Make Certain PaymentsGovernment Orders

4:45 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

To be clear, I would like the member for Saanich—Gulf Islands to withdraw the word “lie”.

An Act to Authorize the Minister of Finance to Make Certain PaymentsGovernment Orders

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

Gary Lunn Conservative Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC

Unequivocally.

An Act to Authorize the Minister of Finance to Make Certain PaymentsGovernment Orders

4:45 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker

I thank the hon. member for that.