House of Commons Hansard #164 of the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was trafficking.

Topics

Presence in GalleryOral Questions

3 p.m.

Some hon. members

Hear, hear!

Oral questionsPoint of OrderOral Questions

3:05 p.m.

Bloc

Carole Lavallée Bloc Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. In replying to a question from his own party, the Minister of Labour made remarks about the evolution of steps taken to adopt the Act to establish the Wage Earner Protection Program Act, once known as Bill C-55.

In May 2005, the Liberals tabled Bill C-55 in this House. The bill had two elements. In one part, it created a wage earner protection program in the event of the bankruptcy of an employer and, in addition, it made amendments to the Bankruptcy and Insolvency Act. The bill was adopted through a fast-track mechanism in the month of December 2005, on the eve of an election campaign. However, technical problems were later discovered. That is why, when the Conservatives were elected January 23, 2006, they asked for time to revise this bill and deal with the technical problems.

As a matter of fact, the Quebec Minister of Finance had raised a serious technical problem in a letter to the Minister of Industry. The Quebec Minister of Finance asserted that this government was intruding on Quebec’s field of jurisdiction and was changing the Civil Code by making it possible that RRSPs could be seized in the future.

For the Bloc Québécois this was uncomfortable, to say the least, and definitely unacceptable. We therefore asked the Minister of Labour to table his bill so that we could, once and for all, do what had never yet been done, submit the bill to clause by clause review in committee.

The Minister of Labour refused to do so. He tabled notice of a Ways and Means motion on December 8. Tabling of the bill, in proper form, followed this notice of a Ways and Means motion. With the cooperation and good faith of the Bloc, matters might have proceeded smoothly. We would have been able to propose our amendment on the seizure of RRSPs and everyone would have been happy. I would not be standing here today to talk about this bill and the Minister of Labour would not be answering questions from members of his own party about why he is right and everyone else is wrong.

The Bloc Québécois is here to protect the interests of Quebec, and that is what it is doing. We also want to protect the interests of workers, and we are doing that too. The minister has refused to table his bill. He will only agree to table it if we agree to fast-track it, that is, if we go through first, second and third readings in one day with no amendments. That is blackmail, it is undemocratic, and it is unacceptable. We have to be able to amend bills that need it, and this bill needs it.

The minister said several times in the House that he wanted the Senate to do the work of members of Parliament, which is also unacceptable. Every time we asked, he told us that we would have to fast-track it, then send it to the Senate where they would study it thoroughly and make amendments. That is unacceptable. Members of Parliament are here to vote on bills, amend them, improve them and study them.

Oral questionsPoint of OrderOral Questions

3:05 p.m.

Yves Lessard

The Senate does not have a mandate from the people.

Oral questionsPoint of OrderOral Questions

3:05 p.m.

Bloc

Carole Lavallée Bloc Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC

As my colleague from Chambly—Borduas says, the Senate does not have a mandate from the people.

The Bloc Québécois wants to make one single amendment to this bill to prevent changes to Quebec's Civil Code. Changing Quebec's Civil Code is no small matter. The Code is Quebec, it is part of Quebec culture and the Quebec nation. As a nation, we have our own Civil Code and we do not want the federal government to change it unilaterally.

Once again, I would like to introduce a motion to adopt this bill at first, second and third readings immediately with the Bloc Québécois' amendment to ensure respect for Quebec's Civil Code. I ask for the unanimous consent of the House.

I would like to know if the opposition parties agree before the government speaks. I will read the amendment—

Oral questionsPoint of OrderOral Questions

3:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Speaker Liberal Peter Milliken

Yes, but we have already had a speech by the hon. member with regard to the motion.

Oral questionsPoint of OrderOral Questions

3:10 p.m.

Bloc

Carole Lavallée Bloc Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC

May I dispense with reading the motion again?

Oral questionsPoint of OrderOral Questions

3:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Speaker Liberal Peter Milliken

If it is the same motion as yesterday, there is no need to reread it. I can put it to before the House and see if there is unanimous consent to move the motion. Is it the same motion that was presented yesterday?

Oral questionsPoint of OrderOral Questions

3:10 p.m.

Bloc

Carole Lavallée Bloc Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC

Mr. Speaker, it is the same motion that was presented yesterday.

Is there unanimous consent?

Oral questionsPoint of OrderOral Questions

3:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Speaker Liberal Peter Milliken

Does the hon. member have the unanimous consent of the House to present this motion?

The Minister of Labour and Minister of the Economic Development Agency of Canada for the Regions of Quebec.

Oral questionsPoint of OrderOral Questions

3:10 p.m.

Jonquière—Alma Québec

Conservative

Jean-Pierre Blackburn ConservativeMinister of Labour and Minister of the Economic Development Agency of Canada for the Regions of Quebec

Mr. Speaker, allow me to give a brief history of the issue raised today in order to speak to the motion that the member wishes to present.

Oral questionsPoint of OrderOral Questions

3:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Speaker Liberal Peter Milliken

It is difficult to debate a motion if it is not presented to the House.

Does the hon. member have the unanimous consent of this House to present the motion?

Oral questionsPoint of OrderOral Questions

3:10 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

Oral questionsPoint of OrderOral Questions

3:10 p.m.

An hon. member

A point of order.

Oral questionsPoint of OrderOral Questions

3:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Speaker Liberal Peter Milliken

Oral questionsPoint of OrderOral Questions

3:10 p.m.

York—Simcoe Ontario

Conservative

Peter Van Loan ConservativeLeader of the Government in the House of Commons and Minister for Democratic Reform

Mr. Speaker, I think it would be only fair, in the circumstances where you did allow the hon. member to go on for some 10 minutes discussing this matter, that at least the Minister of Labour be allowed an opportunity to briefly reply before indicating whether or not there is consent.

Oral questionsPoint of OrderOral Questions

3:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Speaker Liberal Peter Milliken

The member may have got away with more. I thought she was reading the motion and, of course, I was having a discussion. I regret that is the case but we cannot have debates because if we have one member replying, we will have a dozen members replying and we cannot have a debate on a motion that is not before the House.

As the hon. House leader is well aware, debates take place in the House on motions that are presented.

We now have a request for a motion. It is the same motion as that moved yesterday by the hon. member. I ask the House if there is unanimous consent to present the motion. If that is the case, we can debate the motion immediately.

Does the hon. member now have the unanimous consent of this House to present the motion?

Oral questionsPoint of OrderOral Questions

3:10 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

Oral questionsPoint of OrderOral Questions

3:10 p.m.

An hon. member

No.

Oral questionsPoint of OrderOral Questions

3:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Speaker Liberal Peter Milliken

There is no unanimous consent.

The House resumed consideration of the motion that Bill C-57, An Act to amend the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act, be read the second time and referred to a committee.

Immigration and Refugee Protection ActGovernment Orders

3:10 p.m.

NDP

Bill Siksay NDP Burnaby—Douglas, BC

Mr. Speaker, I am happy to resume speaking to Bill C-57.

Before question period, I was saying that the appropriate place to stop someone coming to Canada to work in a degrading or humiliating workplace surely was at the labour market opinion stage where Human Resources and Social Development Canada puts forward an opinion about that workplace and that particular job.

Doing the survey of the workplace and the job would be the appropriate place to make the determination about whether it was an appropriate place to work and an appropriate job to do. The process should be ended before anyone even applies for a work visa overseas.

However, it seems to me that this has largely been accomplished. It is my understanding that the number of work visas issued specifically for exotic dancers has already been dramatically reduced. My understanding of the statistic is that there were 423 such visas issued in 2004 but that last year, in 2006, that number was only 17. I do not believe there is a serious problem at this point. It seems that it has been largely addressed through existing programs and existing legislation. I do not believe, therefore, that this is serious attempt to deal with important issues of human trafficking.

It seems like now this is a rather minor program in terms of overseas workers and certainly a very minor attempt to deal with the important issue of human trafficking that exists here in Canada and around the world.

More than that, it feels like it is entirely a politically motivated piece of legislation. When the bill was first announced, it seemed like it was an opportunity to write the rather pejorative term “stripper” in a press release, to write it almost 10 times over the course of one press release and to drag up an old scandal that faced the previous government.

Rather than a serious attempt to deal with issue of human trafficking, I think this was a rather sad attempt by the Conservative government to drag up an old scandal of the Liberal government.

The stated goal of the bill is “to protect foreign nationals who are at risk of being subjected to humiliating or degrading treatment, including sexual exploitation”. In reality, it does nothing to accomplish that since all it would do is deny people a visa to come to Canada to work.

If they were under the influence of traffickers or unscrupulous people who were exploiting them for degrading or humiliating purposes, the bill would do nothing to remove them from that influence or from those circumstances. It merely denies them work visas to come to Canada. It leaves them in the clutches of the trafficker or the person doing this exploitation.

The bill does nothing to break trafficking rings. It does nothing to improve the situation of those people who seek this kind of work. It does nothing to address the working conditions in the sex industry in Canada or for exotic dancers in Canada or elsewhere. It does nothing to address their human rights. It does nothing to address flaws in criminal laws. It does nothing to address attitudes toward women in Canadian society.

The bill seems to say that there are some workplaces in Canada that are inappropriate for foreign workers but, because it does nothing to address the apparently serious problems of those workplaces, that it is all right for Canadians to work there. Surely this exposes the flawed approach of the government with this legislation. If this is an inappropriate workplace for a foreign worker, it should also be an inappropriate workplace for a Canadian worker, and this legislation does absolutely nothing to address that situation.

I believe that in some quarters there is hope that the bill might be able to improve it or amend it but, frankly, I am not optimistic about that but I will not slam the door shut on it. I believe this bill is likely to make it to committee and I will do my job there to see what comes before the committee in terms of amendments and improvements. However, it does not change my mind about the bill. I am still opposed to the bill before us but I will do my job when it comes before the committee.

Many of us believe that many foreign workers, including temporary foreign workers, agricultural workers and live-in caregivers, are exploited in Canadian workplaces. Those concerns have been expressed time and time again over many years without any action being taken on that exploitation that happens already here in Canada.

The concerns include: wages that are below the Canadian wage standard in many industries; employment standards such as hours of work; inappropriate accommodation; special charges; workplace safety; restrictions, such as the requirement that makes it impossible for a live-in caregiver to change employers; and temporary foreign workers inability to address permanent resident status and, ultimately, the rights and responsibilities of Canadian citizenship.

Those concerns are all well-documented problems with our temporary worker program here in Canada. This bill, by seeking to only address a tiny piece of the problems facing temporary foreign workers, misses the point.

Many people believe that these concerns that have been expressed about other temporary worker programs amount to degrading and humiliating treatment because they are conditions that would be absolutely acceptable to Canadians working in those industries. It is no surprise that Canadians are often unwilling to work for instance in the agriculture industry because of some of the working conditions there. Canadians are unwilling to work as live-in caregivers because of the conditions of work that are in that profession.

The bill does nothing to address degrading and humiliating workplaces in Canada. If these workplaces are unacceptable destinations for foreign workers, they should also be unacceptable for Canadian workers.

For those reason, the NDP cannot support the legislation. We say that we should be focusing on the harm caused due to the problems of those workplaces. We should change the unacceptable conditions that plague these workplaces and these particular programs that temporary foreign workers face when they come to Canada.

Instead, what we are offered by the government in Bill C-57, I believe, is an attempt at moralistic legislation that bandies about the pejorative term strippers as a way of mobilizing support for something that I think is a very small piece of the problem. It is also paternalistic in that it seems to indicate that an immigration officer knows better than, for instance, the woman overseas who is applying to come to work in Canada.

If we had better employment standards and tougher requirements for employers who want to employ temporary foreign workers, the bill would be completely unnecessary.

I want to talk a bit about the report of the Subcommittee of the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights with regard to Canada's solicitation laws. The report was called “The challenge of change: A study of Canada's criminal prostitution laws” and was tabled here in December of last year.

The report makes a recommendation on human trafficking. It was the second recommendation of the report and I would like to read that into the record because I think it was a helpful intervention. It states:

The Subcommittee recommends that the Government of Canada ensure that the problem of trafficking in persons remains a priority so that victims are provided with adequate assistance and services, while traffickers are brought to justice.

Unfortunately, the bill before us today, which purports to deal with the issue of human trafficking, addresses none of that. It does not ensure that traffickers are brought to justice in Canada. In fact, it only prevents someone who the minister may feel might be subjected to trafficking, from escaping the clutches of that person in their country of origin. It also does nothing to improve the assistance that is available to victims.

We need to ensure we are identifying and prosecuting people who engage in human trafficking. Why are these people not being identified? If they are, why would any of them be able to have a job vacancy certified here in Canada?

The special committee on solicitation also made other recommendations. One of them was to ensure that police had the training resources that are necessary. They also talked about the need for a good understanding of prostitution and the sex industry in Canada.

The subcommittee's sixth unanimous recommendation was:

The Subcommittee recommends that the Department of Justice coordinate research on prostitution on a priority basis with other levels of government, institutions, and non-governmental organizations, as well as persons selling sexual services. This research should include an examination of best practices adopted in Canada and abroad.

What that recommendation goes to is the fact that we do not clearly understand the workings of the sex industry in Canada. We do not clearly understand what is the most helpful approach to prostitution and to the sex trade here in Canada and sex work here in Canada. The research is incomplete. We do not understand what sexual exploitation really means in our society. There is contradictory research on those issues.

The subcommittee on solicitation said that we must be clear, that we have to develop good public policy alternatives and that we need to do that work. Again, Bill C-57 does nothing to ensure that that work is undertaken, so that we come to a clearer understanding of that in Canadian society and here in Parliament.

The Standing Committee on the Status of Women also recently tabled a report that made 33 recommendations on human trafficking and on trafficking for the purposes of sexual exploitation. That report is, “Turning Outrage into Action To Address Trafficking for the Purpose of Sexual Exploitation in Canada”. It was tabled in February 2007.

I realize there is some concern about some of the recommendations and about the thoroughness of the study that the committee was able to undertake, but it is very interesting to look at the report. I think there is a helpful discussion.

I note that in its over 58 pages not once does it suggest the course of action taken by the government in Bill C-57. Not once does it suggest that the way of addressing human trafficking is to deny visas overseas to people who might come to Canada to work in a degrading or humiliating workplace. Instead, it discusses anti-poverty measures but interestingly not in a global context, but which is surely an issue when we are dealing with international human trafficking.

That report also discusses gender equality, sexual exploitation, Criminal Code changes, sexual tourism, increasing awareness of trafficking, women in migration, immigration policies and regulation, the need for a Canadian counter-trafficking office, training for law enforcement officers, victims services and resources for the police.

Not once does it suggest denying visas to women who might potentially be trafficked. Instead it outlines a long and detailed agenda of many other issues which go to the heart of human trafficking in Canada and around the world.

Again, I have to say that Bill C-57 seems a very paltry contribution to the whole issue of human trafficking, especially given some of the recent work done by subcommittees and standing committees of the House of Commons.

I would contend that poverty is an issue when we are looking at human trafficking. Therefore, our foreign aid commitment is an issue.

Canada's determination to lead wealthy countries to address poverty is also an issue when we are trying to address the issue of human trafficking. If the economic situation of women and of all people worldwide improved, it would put a huge dent in trafficking and make it less attractive as a mechanism to escape poverty, a less attractive mechanism to finding a more hopeful future for some people and women around the world.

We should also be addressing immigration possibilities for women and ensure that women's success as independent applicants addresses the financial disadvantages that many women face in the immigration process. Again, there is nothing in Bill C-57 to address that kind of problem.

In fact, I would rather see a program that would help immigration officers overseas when someone has come to them to apply for a visa to escape either poverty or exploitation as a trafficked person. Those officers should have options available to them to ensure that something is done to protect the person and to ensure that the person is safe, that something is done to ensure that action is taken against the trafficker or the exploiter and something is done to help that person establish himself or herself successfully in his or her own country or even here in Canada.

It would be better to look at Criminal Code amendments here in Canada. Surely it is through the Criminal Code that we would deal with issues of trafficking and exploitation, and issues of humiliating and degrading work. Surely those are issues that demand Criminal Code attention and not just the action of an immigration officer overseas.

We also need to make sure that international agreements are promoted by Canada and upheld by Canada to ensure that human trafficking is addressed in those kinds of forums around the world.

Trafficking and sexual exploitation are serious issues that demand serious action. Unfortunately, this bill is not that action and we in this corner cannot support it.

We do not see it as a serious attempt to stop trafficking, to prevent people from being exploited in degrading or humiliating workplaces, or to address sexual exploitation. We have to address the workplace here in Canada, deal with the exploitative employer, deal with the work situation that causes someone, anyone, to be degraded or humiliated for whatever reason, not just sexual exploitation.

We need to deal with the flaws in the approval process that allow temporary foreign workers to come to Canada. How does an employer who operates a degrading or humiliating workplace get approval to seek temporary workers in the first place?

We need to deal with Canadian employment standards. If there are degrading and humiliating workplaces here in Canada, then they should be shut down, plain and simple. If a workplace is a legitimate workplace suitable for Canadians, then there should be no problem in allowing foreign workers to make a living there either.

That is the problem that must be solved. I think the bill misreads that problem and proposes no solution to that serious matter. Other organizations agree with that.

The Canadian Council for Refugees is the most widely respected organization working with immigrants and refugees in Canada and includes representatives of almost every refugee serving organization in the country. Its position on this legislation is particularly enlightening. The CCR says very clearly that Bill C-57 takes the wrong approach to the problem of trafficking. I want to quote from the council's press release where it says:

“This bill does nothing to protect the rights of trafficked persons already here in Canada,” said Loly Rico, chair of the CCR's Anti-Trafficking Committee. “Worse, the bill takes a condescending, moralistic approach, empowering visa officers to decide which women should be kept out of Canada for their own good.”

That points very clearly to a serious problem with the legislation. The Canadian Council for Refugees also goes on to talk about five other ways that it believes this is flawed and wrong legislation. The council points out that the bill fails to address the root problem of the existence in Canada of jobs that humiliate and degrade workers. The council believes that parliamentary time would be better spent to address the broader spectrum of the exploitation of non-citizens in Canada.

This is a very problematic piece of legislation. We in this corner of the House cannot support it because we do not believe that it gets to the heart of the issue, dealing with human trafficking, dealing with issues of exploitation in degrading or humiliating workplaces.

Immigration and Refugee Protection ActGovernment Orders

3:30 p.m.

NDP

Jean Crowder NDP Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank the member for Burnaby—Douglas for his very eloquent discussion on the problems with this piece of legislation.

The member highlighted a number of areas of concern. One is around the issue of what a safe workplace would be. I certainly know there are Canadians who are being exploited. I know the other house has a current study under way on the commercial sexual exploitation of aboriginal children. It is not just foreign workers who are subjected to that; Canadians are as well.

The question I really want to ask the member is about some of the larger problems with the temporary foreign worker program itself. The live-in caregiver program, for example, is an area where largely women are exploited on an ongoing basis.

In my own riding of Nanaimo—Cowichan currently there is a situation where a worker is with an employer who is exploiting her. The case is well documented. She is attempting to transfer to another employer, but it will take weeks for that to happen. She has to continue in that situation.

Could the member specifically talk about some of the mechanisms that need to be put in place to address some of the serious problems with the temporary foreign worker program?

Immigration and Refugee Protection ActGovernment Orders

3:30 p.m.

NDP

Bill Siksay NDP Burnaby—Douglas, BC

Mr. Speaker, there is a problem with temporary worker programs here in Canada. Sadly, it is a long term and historical legacy of Canada. We all know about the problems that were experienced by Chinese workers who came to Canada to work on the railways and the lack of concern for their safety and well-being.

Sadly, I believe that legacy continues through to this day. We see it with agricultural workers in Canada who often work under very difficult conditions. We see it with agricultural workers facing racial discrimination. We saw very blatant racial discrimination recently in Quebec. We see it in terrible working conditions and living conditions for agricultural workers. We see it in limitations on their ability to change jobs.

We often see employers interfering in the basic human rights of temporary foreign workers by doing things like seizing passports and not allowing them access to their travel documents.

We also see that legacy in the example that the member gave of the live-in caregiver program, where a live-in caregiver is not able to change employers. It has been said in the past that those workers are often like an indentured servant to one particular family. They do not have the ability to change employers even if there are problems with the working conditions in that workplace.

The government has expanded and has speeded up the approval process for temporary foreign workers even though there are continuing problems. We have seen that recently with exploitative brokers, who charge foreign workers huge amounts of money to find them temporary positions here in Canada. We saw it with Chinese workers in the tar sands who were recently killed on the job. There are concerns about safety standards in some workplaces and the ability to communicate appropriately with foreign workers who may not have English or French as their first language.

We have also seen it on the rapid transit project in Vancouver where workers were brought in offshore from Central America and South America. They were paid at a rate that initially was something like $3.27 an hour, much below the minimum wage here in Canada.

Many of us are concerned that temporary foreign workers can be used as a way of driving down employment standards and wage standards here in Canada. The example of the temporary workers working on the rapid transit project in Vancouver certainly draws our attention to those specific problems and makes it patently obvious that that seemed to be what was going on there.

There are all kinds of problems with temporary foreign worker programs here in Canada. Sadly, this bill does nothing to address any of those very major concerns for any of those workers.

Immigration and Refugee Protection ActGovernment Orders

3:35 p.m.

Liberal

Jim Karygiannis Liberal Scarborough—Agincourt, ON

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank my good friend the member from the NDP who so eloquently put forward the facts about foreign workers. He spoke about people getting killed on the job. He has expressed those views in committee. We look forward to discussing undocumented workers in committee when we come back in the fall.

In committee there was a motion about having a moratorium on the deportation of undocumented workers. The surprising fact was that when I rose in the House last week to ask for unanimous consent to move this motion forward, the Conservatives were not in the House. This was a great opportunity. This was not a problem for the Liberals. This was not a problem for the Bloc. Who ran in to say there was not unanimous consent? The NDP member for Trinity—Spadina. We are talking about a pink champagne drinking socialist. We are talking about the people who pretend to back workers. If the NDP members really back the workers, if they really are for the workers, if they really do not want to have foreign workers mistreated, then they should have supported my unanimous consent request.

Immigration and Refugee Protection ActGovernment Orders

3:35 p.m.

NDP

Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC

You don't really like anybody do you?