House of Commons Hansard #59 of the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was seniors.

Topics

Financial Statement of Minister of FinanceThe BudgetGovernment Orders

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Royal Galipeau

Resuming debate, the hon. Minister of Public Safety.

Financial Statement of Minister of FinanceThe BudgetGovernment Orders

3:45 p.m.

Okanagan—Coquihalla B.C.

Conservative

Stockwell Day ConservativeMinister of Public Safety

Mr. Speaker, I will be sharing my time with my colleague from Simcoe North.

In the few minutes allotted to me I would like to address some of the broad stroke issues of the budget and then I will talk a little bit about what we are doing in an increased way related to my portfolio of safety and security.

I would also like to talk a little bit about what is going on in my constituency in terms of how the constituency is benefiting from the building Canada fund which gives significant dollars to infrastructure.

There has been some debate and I heard some concern brought forward by members of the opposition about the responsible way in which this government is paying down debt. It is something we need to reflect on for a moment because if we do not deal with debt, the interest payments increase, in fact they start to compound and as interest payments increase and a government is compelled to make those payments, in fact the government loses the fiscal capacity to be able to spend its scarce taxpayer dollars on other things of importance like essential services.

That is why, when we look at the record of debt in Canada over the last 50 years, we can see under the reign of Pierre Trudeau how the really grotesque uptake of debt started to skyrocket to levels unheard of certainly in Canadian history and really unheard of in much of the democratic world post-second world war.

We cannot blame it all on Mr. Trudeau because subsequent governments followed this fanciful dream that the way to get out of debt was to keep on borrowing. Now, none of us tell our kids that and hopefully we try not to practise that in our own finances. It is rather deplorable when a government would think that the way to get out of debt would be to just keep on borrowing.

That trend continued until the early nineties when it took the International Monetary Fund to blow the whistle on Canada. That was a very embarrassing moment for us as Canadians as we realized that the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank were reflecting on Canada's ratio of debt to gross domestic product, and it was saying Canada was in a very fragile financial moment. The fiscal record of the nation was at stake.

That is what happens when debt is ignored. That philosophical approach to economic issues was advocated by, among other people, the economist John Maynard Keynes. He was a strong proponent of this spend and tax cycle and trying to put on the brakes, put on the gas, as they used to call it, and try to govern the economy that way.

He was asked by an astute observer at one point, “As debt increases, do you not hit a point where in the long run, an economy is no longer able to sustain itself?” Keynes replied that in the long run, we will all be dead. That was the economic depth of his answer.

I may be, in the shorter run, but my kids and grandkids will not be. I do not like the fact that he and others in government can shrug that off. I do not like the fact that my kids and grandkids would be paying and having to finance his dreams which probably did not come to fruition because the economic world of many countries largely abandoned that ridiculous approach that we can get out of debt by continuing to go into debt.

That is why we have a Minister of Finance and a government that believes we have to aggressively pay down debt. As we do that, we reduce those interest payments every year. We free up money to spend on essential services. We made a commitment that we are not going to take the interest savings and just spend those.

As a matter of fact, we are going to return those in the form of tax savings. That is the second part of the budget I want to talk about. Since we have formed the government, we have reduced taxes in over 60 different areas including the GST.

This combination of a commitment to reduce debt and reduce taxes sends a robust signal to the marketplace, both within Canada and abroad where people are wondering if they should be investing in their businesses here, or should they be looking to jurisdictions that are less taxed and less indebted. Those twin signals of reducing debt and reducing taxes build confidence in people who are investing whether it is a small business, medium sized business, or large business.

Also, as international fund managers look around the world at signals from economies where there can be some sense of longevity in terms of prosperity and opportunity, those kinds of signals will attract investment dollars, which attracts jobs, and we wind up with the combined effect of lowering people's taxes. We then have more people paying taxes because more people are working, but they are all paying at a lower rate. That is the way to keep an economy rejuvenated.

This is a very solid process that the Minister of Finance is advocating and has put before us today. I hope members of the opposition would begin to clear away some of the fog they have on this issue of paying down debt and reducing taxes and see that those two factors have a rejuvenating effect, not just on the economy but on individuals who sense that hard work, incentive and investment can pay off for them.

In the area of safety and security, under areas of my portfolio, we have made significant increases in some key areas. When we look at investment in one area, we need to send signals that we have a secure nation, and we do, and we have a nation that will work other nations to deal with criminal elements, risks of terrorism and natural disasters.

This is why we have made investments in some key areas at the border. We want to ensure traffic flowing across our borders, low risk travel and cargo, can move more rapidly. We also want to ensure that our border officers and others are equipped not just with the latest technology, but with the latest training to intercept goods, which could be contraband, dangerous or illegal, and also individuals who could be a threat to our country.

This is why the budget makes significant increases in those areas at our borders, with our integrated border teams that work with officers on the other side of the border and a $430 million investment in technology to provide the technological means.

We have made investments related to all trucking companies. We will ask for this within five years, but it is a process that has begun. All trucking companies will forward, by electronic manifest, the contents of their cargoes. They will forward that information to the borders even before they arrive. Therefore, the threat and risk assessments are done before the trucks arrive and the low risk ones can move through more quickly. Others identified as being possibly at risk can be sent to a secondary station and have a more thorough inspection.

We have increased the former budget by $161 million with a commitment to see 1,000 more RCMP officers on the street. We announced in this budget $400 million to provinces, on a per capita basis, so they can hire more municipal officers.

At the local level, we heard the announcement by the president of the Federation of Municipalities that the budget was good for cities and communities across the country because of the infrastructure fund. This is the largest ever infrastructure fund set aside for that purpose in Canadian history. A significant portion of that will go to the province of British Columbia, which I am honoured to represent, as well as the constituency of Okanagan—Coquihalla.

People like Mayor Graham Reid in Peachland, Mayor Gregory in Summerland, the newly elected mayor of the new municipality on the west side, Mayor Neis, and the mayor of Oliver have all experienced the results already of those infrastructure dollars. I have been able to work with other planners and elected people to see infrastructure increase because of dollars that flow to vital areas like water treatment, road construction, the very basic things people look for to make their constituencies strong and give them some predictability for the future.

Again, I remind members to think about the broad brush elements. We are reducing debt and taxes. I have not addressed many areas covered in the budget, but we are able to address those areas. We are able to put $1 billion into a community development trust for communities when their traditional areas of industry are hit. We can do all those things and meet the needs of students and others because we have taken a prudent approach to the fiscal management of our nation.

Financial Statement of Minister of FinanceThe BudgetGovernment Orders

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

John McKay Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood, ON

Mr. Speaker, I only wish it were a prudent approach. The hon. member neglects to mention that our debt to GDP will fall to 25% if we do absolutely nothing by the year 2014. His focus on debt, while laudable in and of itself, when the government has an excess money is not such a bad public policy initiative. However, to focus on it to the exclusion of other deficits, infrastructure being the classic one, is economic foolishness.

I would be more impressed with the hon. member's speech if his government were not in a runaway mode on spending. The government has been spending two to three times our GDP growth. it is easily the largest spending, fastest spending government in all of Canadian history. It is runaway spending that would embarrass Paris Hilton.

Simultaneously the Conservatives have been reducing revenue bases, inappropriately, we would argue. The number the finance minister put before us last week was that in this fiscal year coming up we would have roughly $2.3 billion with which to play. That would be all very fine if the revenue projections held. However, as of this morning, the Globe and Mail states:

That would make [the Minister of Finance]'s pledge last week to balance the budget trickier. Like the central bank, the Finance Department was counting on growth of 1.5 per cent...

This was after the government reduced its growth protections by 25%. It is now down to zero rate of growth. It goes on to say:

The weaker result means Canada's economy was smaller at the start of 2008 than Finance officials anticipated...

Does the hon. member consider this to be solid management of the nation's growth when we face these economic challenges?

Financial Statement of Minister of FinanceThe BudgetGovernment Orders

4 p.m.

Conservative

Stockwell Day Conservative Okanagan—Coquihalla, BC

Mr. Speaker, my hon. friend's question while well-intended is sadly misinformed.

First, what was most notable was how he prefaced his question on the area related to debt by saying what the Liberal approach would be. He said “if we did nothing”. That is the suggested Liberal approach to debt reduction. He said that if we did nothing, we would see the ratio of debt to GDP, GDP is the overall income, all the revenues that come into a nation, go down by the year 2014 and everything would be fine.

If we leave the debt unattended, but the economy continues to grow, which it will under our sound fiscal policies, we will see the revenues come in and it will look, on a ratio, that the debt has been reduced. However, by leaving it alone, the payments are staying there. As a matter of fact, the debt payments would increase. For years, the policy of the Liberals has been to leave the debt alone as much as possible. That policy will not reduce the debt payments.

In alarm, he said that we had reduced the revenue bases, which is code for we do not like reducing people's taxes. The Liberal philosophy is, “Give us all of your money. We know how to spend it much better than you do”. I am delighted we have reduced some revenue bases, like income taxes, taxes to seniors, taxes to low income people and the GST.

This past weekend my wife and I were able to help my son and my daughter-in-law move. They just purchased a new house. They bought that home for close to $400,000. We reduced the GST from 7% to 5%. This means that young couple, like thousands of couples across the country buying new houses, saved $8,000. That is $8,000 in their pockets. If the Liberal government were in place, the Liberals would have that money. I am much happier that my son and daughter-in-law have it rather than the Liberals.

Financial Statement of Minister of FinanceThe BudgetGovernment Orders

4 p.m.

Conservative

Bruce Stanton Conservative Simcoe North, ON

Mr. Speaker, it is a great privilege to speak in the budget 2008 debate.

Our budget builds on the strong performance of our country and its government in recent years. It also prepares us for the realities of slower economic growth. The measures that we took in the fall economic statement ahead of the curve are helping to cushion the country's economy in a responsible and balanced way that will keep our economic fundamentals strong.

Canada has come a long way from the volatile economic times we experienced in the seventies and eighties, with high inflation and interest rates, high taxes and burgeoning public debt at both levels of government. However, lessons were learned and eventually, with a lot of pain and hard work by governments, businesses and, indeed, Canadian families and workers, we emerged to see a country on the strongest footing we have enjoyed since the 1960s.

We are a stronger trading nation, a more educated nation, a nation that is investing in research and the knowledge economy, a nation that is investing in public infrastructure and a nation that puts its provincial partners on a fairer, predictable funding base.

Taxes are lower than they have been since the 1960s. Inflation and interest rates are low and stable. Public debt is tracking to its lowest rate against GDP in my lifetime. The Canadian dollar is strong. We know that poses some challenges, but the stronger dollar reflects our stronger position in the world, and that is something in which we should take some pride.

As a result of our careful financial stewardship, the economy is in good shape; Canadians are working hard, paying their taxes and raising their families; 400,000 new jobs have been created in the past two years and unemployment is at its lowest level in 33 years.

We are well positioned to cushion the slowing down of the global economy, a position that augers well for the future. In fact, the only sure thing we know looking forward is that once the U.S. gets back on a stronger growth curve, and it will, from time to time events will occur in the world that may impact Canada's economy negatively. We have seen them before: the weakening of Asian capital markets, 9/11, the tech bubble, SARS, BSE, and now the U.S. slowdown after what was a long and sustained growth period.

The very best way for Canada to withstand these pressures, which are for the most part outside our control, is to keep our economic fundamentals strong and competitive. That approach will attract investment and keep jobs in Canada, keeping the opportunity for Canadian families to improve their incomes and indeed improve their standard of living against any measure.

For these reasons, I have been very surprised and quite frankly concerned at the nature of political discussions in this place during the weeks leading up to the budget and even recently. We had opposition members calling for major government interventions as if to somehow backstop the U.S. slowdown, believing that Canada somehow could spend its way to preventing a recession south of the border.

It is actually quite bizarre. Those members seem to favour going back to the days of higher taxes, bigger government handouts and the kinds of interventions that played havoc with our economy before and would surely help get us in trouble again.

We cannot go back. We will not go back. Budget 2008 builds on the already proper and successful approaches we have taken in budgets 2006 and 2007 and last fall's economic statement. It also falls directly out of the most masterful and visionary economic plan this country has seen, certainly in all my years, and that is the “Advantage Canada” plan introduced in November 2006.

It gives us the advantage so that as the world changes, and it will, Canada can continue to be more prosperous and strong. It is realistic. It is practical.

It will give Canada and Canadians a competitive advantage: a tax advantage with the lowest rate on business investment in the G-7; a fiscal advantage by reducing our debt and leaving the next generation on a stronger foundation; an entrepreneurial advantage by making Canada a good place to do business, one with less red tape and paper burden; a knowledge advantage, improving skills and awarding excellence in education and research; and finally, an infrastructure advantage, with the most robust investment in public infrastructure we have seen since the second world war.

As parliamentarians we are given the responsibility to shape public policy and public expenditures so that all Canadians have access to a better quality of life. “Advantage Canada” and its five pillars and our last three balanced budgets aim directly at achieving advantage for all Canadians.

For the benefit of those tuned in from my riding of Simcoe North and for all viewers this afternoon, I would like to take just a moment to highlight some of the key improvements in our budget 2008 that speak directly to Canadian advantage.

To help all Canadian families and seniors protect their savings and maximize their incomes, we have introduced the first major innovation in Canadian savings policy since the RRSP in 1957, and 1957 was a very good year. This is the new tax-free savings account. From age 18 on, Canadians can now put up to $5,000 per year into a savings account and the earnings will grow in that account tax free. If the whole $5,000 cannot be used in one year, the unused portion can carry forward for future use.

For the heart of the manufacturing economy in Simcoe North, especially in Penetanguishene, Orillia and Midland, we have extended the accelerated depreciation allowance for another three years on a declining scale so that new capital equipment can be written off more quickly to save taxes and to invest more.

We know that the future health of our manufacturers requires new investment in the kinds of machines and tools we will need to compete with the very best in the world. Our government is helping to do that. It does not hurt that those purchases can now be made with a more valuable Canadian dollar.

This is on top of a new $250 million automotive innovation fund that will help our automotive sector invest in the kind of green, fuel efficient products that are certain to the lead the market in this new economy and develop the kind of tooling and systems needed to keep Ontario the very best place in the world, as we know, to assemble automobiles.

To expand our knowledge advantage, we are helping 245,000 college and undergraduate students a year with a bigger and better Canada student loan program, with $350 million by 2009-10, rising to $430 million in 2012-13.

For the many seniors in Simcoe North and across Canada, in addition to the tax savings we have brought in from bigger tax credits, smaller tax rates and pension splitting, budget 2008 gives those seniors who have some extra earnings the ability to declare up to $3,500 per year of earned income before which their GIS would be affected. It used to be that anything over $500 was clawed back from the GIS, but not any more.

On the infrastructure front, the gas tax transfers that flow to our municipalities and will reach a record level in the next fiscal year will now be permanent, dependable and predictable transfers directly from the Government of Canada to help with municipal infrastructure improvements. We had extended that gas tax funding in budget 2006 to 2014, but now it will not stop. This measure will add an additional $4.5 million per year for the eight municipalities in Simcoe North.

For law enforcement and police services, and indeed to keep our communities safer, budget 2008 commits $400 million for the hiring of 2,500 new police officers. The share for Ontario policing will be $156 million to help with Ontario police forces and services.

Finally, in five cities across Canada, there is some groundbreaking work under way by the Mental Health Commission in a program that will see some $110 million spent to develop best practices and a new model for dealing with Canadians facing homelessness that is occasioned by mental illness.

Those are some of the highlights of budget 2008 in which I know the people of Simcoe North will take an interest. It is a tremendous honour to serve the people of my riding. I am proud to serve them as part of a government that is taking strong, decisive action to bolster our economy even in the face of uncertain economic times.

I thank my colleagues for their attention, and I now invite them to ask me questions.

Financial Statement of Minister of FinanceThe BudgetGovernment Orders

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

Rodger Cuzner Liberal Cape Breton—Canso, NS

Mr. Speaker, there is a question I would like to pose to my colleague across. The common acceptance is that the budget was a mile wide and an inch thick. One investment that was made but fell far short of a promise the Prime Minister made was the $282 million to the veterans independence program, which is about half of what was needed to cover the promise the Prime Minister made to supply the veterans independence program to all widows of veterans from the second world war and the Korean war, to the widows of all veterans.

Does the member have some constituents who have fallen off the radar screen on this promise that was made by the Prime Minister but which was a shortcoming and just did not get delivered in the budget?

Financial Statement of Minister of FinanceThe BudgetGovernment Orders

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

Bruce Stanton Conservative Simcoe North, ON

As a matter of fact, Mr. Speaker, I had a conversation with the representative of our local Legion just days before the budget. We discussed that very same and important veterans independence program.

There is nothing more important than supporting the families of our veterans. As I see, the Speaker might have some affiliations there as well. It is very important for the Legion, which is out there helping to support families of veterans, particularly the families of those who are no longer with us. This is an important commitment to the families of veterans. It is $282 million, which will help with the kinds of services they need so they can remain independent in their homes. I think it is a great step forward in supporting them and honouring the work they have done for the country.

Financial Statement of Minister of FinanceThe BudgetGovernment Orders

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

Myron Thompson Conservative Wild Rose, AB

Mr. Speaker, in my riding and in most of Alberta there is a real labour shortage. As a result of the budget, I now have people contacting me on a regular basis telling me how excited they are. They are people over the age of 65 who are now able to go and help out in so many cases, particularly in the service industries that have been looking for help. These people have been willing to work but they would not because of the clawbacks in the past. Now they are excited about being able to get out into the community and make an extra few hundred dollars a month.

Not only that, many of them now have their T4 slips and are starting to apply for their tax returns. They are amazed at the amount of taxes they are going to get back because of income splitting and so many other breaks that the budgets are providing.

I do not know if the member would agree with me, but I have a hard time understanding why anyone in the House would not support a budget that does a great deal for our seniors, who are very excited about it.

Financial Statement of Minister of FinanceThe BudgetGovernment Orders

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

Bruce Stanton Conservative Simcoe North, ON

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member is absolutely right. We hear time and time again from citizens in our ridings who are over the age of 65, who have a tremendous capacity to help and who continue to serve in our communities in the ways that they so choose. The nice thing is that because of the measures introduced in budget 2008 they now can have that little bit of extra income that will help with their expenses and they will not have to be concerned about it being clawed back out of GIS.

This is a tremendous support. As well, it supports other programs that work to help seniors to be active in their communities and to continue to be engaged. Now they can do so without having to suffer a financial penalty for it.

Financial Statement of Minister of FinanceThe BudgetGovernment Orders

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Royal Galipeau

The hon. member for Northumberland—Quinte West has time for a quick question.

Financial Statement of Minister of FinanceThe BudgetGovernment Orders

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

Rick Norlock Conservative Northumberland—Quinte West, ON

Mr. Speaker, in addition to the $358 million for Ontario for the community development trust, the $195 million in the public transit trust that goes to Ontario, and the extra money for the 2,500 police officers, are there any other items in the budget that will benefit the members of our ridings in the province of Ontario?

Financial Statement of Minister of FinanceThe BudgetGovernment Orders

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Royal Galipeau

The hon. member for Simcoe North will have to give a very short answer because the clock has run out.

Financial Statement of Minister of FinanceThe BudgetGovernment Orders

4:15 p.m.

Conservative

Bruce Stanton Conservative Simcoe North, ON

Mr. Speaker, the member is absolutely right. The budget measures will help all citizens of Ontario. Now all we need to do is get provincial corporate taxes down and we will be away to the races.

Financial Statement of Minister of FinanceThe BudgetGovernment Orders

4:15 p.m.

NDP

Catherine Bell NDP Vancouver Island North, BC

Mr. Speaker, I will be sharing my time with the member for Acadie—Bathurst.

This budget is about making choices. This is the third budget from the Conservative government that steers Canada in the wrong direction. This budget is a continuation of an agenda that is failing hard-working Canadians, seniors and children, students, first nations and the environment. But there is one segment of society that is looking at this budget and thanking the government and it is the big banks and big polluters.

If we look closely at this budget we see a lot of re-announcements. When we watched the finance minister deliver this budget speech it was like watching reruns of a very bad serial. In an effort to fool Canadians into thinking that the Conservatives are putting more money into programs and services, the government has listed money from previous budgets, but what the government did not list was all the money it gave to big banks and big polluters in its fall economic statement. I guess the Conservatives do not want Canadians to remember that.

Let me remind Canadians what those huge giveaways were and maybe talk a little about how the Conservative government is spending Canadians' tax dollars on their friends. Over $12 billion will be given away annually by 2011 in corporate tax cuts as announced last fall, amounting to approximately $60 billion by 2013, only five short years from now.

For every $1 in new spending, $6 will go to corporate tax giveaways. No wonder the government did not list those figures. It does not want Canadians to know how much of their money is going into corporate pockets.

Another thing the government did not mention is that ordinary taxpayers are now paying the bulk of the taxes, almost three times more than corporate tax, and yet individuals are not getting their fair share of the returns. Most people understand that taxes are the price we pay to take care of one another. We want our taxes to pay for schools, hospitals, infrastructure, child care and a host of other services that help us through our daily lives.

The Conservatives, supported by the Liberals, have spent our tax dollars. They have blown the federal surplus. Now they tell us that we have to be prudent.

The headlines today are predicting a grim economic outlook. We had a surplus that could have been used to support programs that would help ordinary Canadians weather this storm. We in the NDP have been calling on the government to invest in our communities, in the services that ordinary hard-working Canadians need and depend on to help make ends meet, especially for those tough economic times to come.

The Conservative government chose not to invest in those things. The Conservatives made a choice in this budget and their choice was clear. They chose to favour big banks and polluters instead of hard-working Canadians.

In my riding of Vancouver Island North I have been calling for some assistance for the forestry industry. Earlier this year the government announced a billion dollars for struggling resource communities to help with economic development and retraining, but with the magnitude of the crisis in the forestry sector alone, a billion dollars Canada-wide and for all sectors will not go very far.

The Elk Falls sawmill in Campbell River is on the brink of closing. It is just one of the 112 mills closed in this country that has put over 30,000 people out of their jobs in resource dependent communities. The workers of that mill want to know how much of that billion dollars will come to them.

The forestry industry is at a crossroads and is looking to the government for assistance. The money in this budget for advertising a sustainable and innovative sector will not be worth much if there is no innovative and sustainable sector to advertise.

Canada is in a good position to be a world leader in forest products, and our forest resources can be an environmental and economic asset for generations to come. The government has a role to play and it must recognize it before we lose any more opportunities to another country.

There were also several glaring omissions from this budget. I looked for new money for fish habitat restoration, management and enforcement and fish stock enhancement, but there was no new money. This is another industry in B.C. that is in crisis.

There was no mention of anything to assist commercial and recreational fishermen. Wild salmon stocks are perilously low. If any species is classified under the Species at Risk Act, it can have a devastating impact on the economy of British Columbia.

We know that fish habitat is being negatively impacted by industrial development and global warming, but we do not know all the factors that are impacting our wild salmon when they go to sea, and it is even more important to increase research spending so that we can find out.

Local volunteer groups like the Puntledge River and Tsolum River restoration societies are working hard to rebuild salmon populations in those two rivers, but they are getting fed up with the lack of support from the government.

First nations in Vancouver Island North depend on wild salmon for their food, and for social and ceremonial purposes. The federal government has a legal obligation to first nations when it comes to fish. For them, for commercial fishermen, for sport fishermen, for environmental groups, for tourism in Vancouver Island North, sadly, the government did not choose to invest increased funding for measures that would help rebuild the west coast fishery. Are we to see our fishery go the way of the east coast fishery? I hope not.

The Conservative government chose once again not to help Canadians across this country with an affordable housing program. Sadly, there are too many people living in substandard and unsafe housing. Some of it cannot even be called housing. In Courtenay there are over 200 people who do not have a home. They live at the local campsite or in their cars, if they have one, or maybe they are couch surfing, and yes, some of them live on the streets. I have been visiting our local service providers in Courtenay and Campbell River lately and when I ask what the number one issue for local people accessing their services is, they tell me it is poverty and homelessness.

The NDP called on the government to invest in affordable and social housing and a strategy to reduce homelessness. Instead, the government has chosen to do five pilot projects related to homelessness and mental illness. While that in and of itself is a start, it does not go nearly far enough to address the staggering crisis of homelessness in this country for people with mental illness or not.

The Conservatives' record on the environment is also dismal. Their biggest new spending was for nuclear development. I guess they have to invest in nuclear if that is their idea of clean energy and a way to cut greenhouse gas emissions. Instead of implementing a cap and trade system that would make the big polluters pay and then use that money to invest in alternative energy sources like wind and solar power, the government chose to study it. At a time when the environment is the single most important issue for everyone in Canada, the government is doing nothing.

Ordinary Canadians want their country to lead the way. They are way ahead of the government in the little things like recycling and using more environmentally friendly products, changing their habits and their lives, but for the bigger ticket items like heat pumps, solar panels or hybrid vehicles, the government needs to step up to the plate. The eco-energy program is woefully inadequate and does little to help working families change their windows or heating systems. Instead of building on the eco-auto program, the government scrapped it. Our grandchildren deserve better.

As I said earlier, a budget is about making choices. It is obvious where the Conservative heart is and it is obvious who those members favour. In all the choices that they have made in this budget, in their previous economic statement, and in budgets 2006 and 2007, they have chosen to help the people who need it the least.

At a time of enormous federal surplus, when we could have afforded to take care of the most vulnerable, the most disadvantaged, and ordinary hard-working Canadians who need a little help, seniors, students, children, struggling industries and the environment, the Conservative government has chosen to look the other way.

Financial Statement of Minister of FinanceThe BudgetGovernment Orders

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Royal Galipeau

It is my duty pursuant to Standing Order 38 to inform the House that the questions to be raised tonight at the time of adjournment are as follows: the hon. member for Hull—Aylmer, Government Appointments; the hon. member for Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, Seniors; the hon. member for Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, The Manufacturing Industry.

Financial Statement of Minister of FinanceThe BudgetGovernment Orders

4:25 p.m.

Souris—Moose Mountain Saskatchewan

Conservative

Ed Komarnicki ConservativeParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Citizenship and Immigration

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member was talking about the effects of the budget with respect to initiatives relating to the environment. I would like to mention to the hon. member that the budget provides for $240 million for carbon capture and sequestration. That would take carbon dioxide out of the air and store it underground. In fact, it happens in my constituency where this project will be taking place. One thousand tonnes of carbon dioxide will be captured from the air per day, or a million tonnes of carbon dioxide per year, and sequestered. It is establishing the technology to do that on a continuous basis for coal fired plants.

Does the member not think that is not only innovative but it goes a long, long way toward solving an environmental problem, that is the amount of CO2 in the air? It is a novel prospect of taking that and putting it underground and doing something useful with it by enhancing oil recovery, something that is already happening in my community of Weyburn, Saskatchewan which imports the CO2 from the United States. Would it not be wiser to take it from Canada and use that money to leverage a $1.4 billion investment in my constituency?

I say to the member that it is a great step forward. It is a great step in terms of saving and protecting our environment and she should be very pleased about that.

Financial Statement of Minister of FinanceThe BudgetGovernment Orders

4:30 p.m.

NDP

Catherine Bell NDP Vancouver Island North, BC

Mr. Speaker, I am glad the member raised that issue. I thought I would not have enough time to get everything in and that was one of the things I wanted to address because what the government forgot to tell people in its budget speech was that it cut the eco-auto program, something that was actually working for individuals.

Now we see that the Conservatives put $250 million into the ground in the member's riding in a pilot project. Sadly, that money is not going to help pay for alternative energy development. It is not going to help ordinary families deal with the skyrocketing prices of fuel to heat their homes. It will not do anything to help the woefully inadequate eco-energy program that ordinary Canadians are having a hard time accessing as they try to do the right thing and make sure that their homes are environmentally sustainable.

I have to disagree with my hon. colleague that this pilot project to dump it into the ground is a good use of $250 million. It is an unproven technology.

What the Conservatives should be doing to cut greenhouse gas emissions from his province is to slow down the development of the oil sands, which is one of the largest polluters in this country, and make sure that the polluters are paying. Instead, the Conservatives gave big polluters another $250 million.

Financial Statement of Minister of FinanceThe BudgetGovernment Orders

4:30 p.m.

Liberal

John McKay Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood, ON

Mr. Speaker, I was wondering what the hon. member thought about the centrepiece of the budget, namely the tax-free savings account. A properly advised client would first of all invest in an RRSP, and that is a considerable sum of money with a tax deduction attached, and then after that presumably would invest in an RESP which gives a government incentive to invest and is protected during the time the money is in there, and then if the person had any money left over after that, the money would go into a tax-free savings account.

I wonder whether she knows anyone in her constituency who could, after all those investments, actually take advantage of this. Does she think that the anticipated reduction of revenues of $5 million is actually of any significance whatsoever?

Financial Statement of Minister of FinanceThe BudgetGovernment Orders

4:30 p.m.

NDP

Catherine Bell NDP Vancouver Island North, BC

Mr. Speaker, the tax-free savings account is sadly inadequate and does nothing to help ordinary Canadians be able to save money. Individuals' savings in this country according to Statistics Canada have gone down, not because people did not want to save money, but because they could not afford to. Ordinary families cannot afford things like the cost of prescription drugs, the cost of housing, the cost of fuel to heat their homes, the cost of child care, the cost of health care and the user fees that are going to be imposed on them when everything is done under public private partnerships.

This centrepiece for the Conservatives' budget is sad. Unfortunately, it will do nothing to help individuals save money in my riding of Vancouver Island North.

Financial Statement of Minister of FinanceThe BudgetGovernment Orders

4:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Royal Galipeau

I am about to recognize the hon. member for Acadie—Bathurst, who is at the other end of the hall. It is my duty to listen to him carefully and, therefore, I ask those sitting in between who wish to have private conversations to please have them outside of the House. I will listen to the hon. member for Acadie—Bathurst and only him. He has the floor.

Financial Statement of Minister of FinanceThe BudgetGovernment Orders

4:30 p.m.

NDP

Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB

I thank you, Mr. Speaker, for all the respect you are giving me as the member for Acadie—Bathurst and telling the others to listen and that if they do not want to listen, then they should go outside. I appreciate that.

I rise today on the discussion about the budget, which we will vote on tonight. The NDP will be voting against this budget and we have many reasons for voting against it.

The Conservative government said that it would be very careful in this budget because a recession would probably be coming, industry was not doing that well and that we are going in the direction of what is happening in the United States. When we look at those statements we see that what the government forgot to say is that it looked after its friends last year by giving $14 billion to big business and a break in taxes and that now it was nice just to be safe.

We should take a look at this budget. The Conservative government said very clearly that it needed to present a very cautious, prudent budget. At the same time, it had a certain vision going back to last year: if it wanted to table a prudent budget in the spring, it was best to take care of its good friends, the big oil companies and banks, and be sure to give them their share of the cake with lots of icing on top before the budget.

So in the mini-budget last fall, the Conservative government gave $14 billion worth of tax cuts to big business. In its current budget, it fails to deal with a number of problems, including veterans’ spouses. The Conservative government always tells us we should support the troops on their mission in Afghanistan or elsewhere, but we should support them as well when they come back to Canada.

For example, there is a very regrettable situation insofar as our veterans are concerned. The Liberal government of the time recognized that veterans’ spouses should qualify for the VIP or Veterans Independence Program. However, it applies only to the spouses of veterans who died after 1981. The spouses of veterans who died before 1981 do not qualify.

Unlike some fellow citizens living in the same city, therefore, certain veterans’ spouses are not eligible for the VIP, which provides such services snow removal and grass cutting or covers costs related to doctor’s visits. Some husbands went to war in 1939-45, but because they died before 1981, their widows are not eligible for the program. This budget does nothing at all for these families or people.

There is absolutely nothing in the budget as well to help older people with their medications. These people are our own aging parents. There is nothing at all in the budget to provide them with an affordable drug program. There is also absolutely nothing to help people find affordable housing.

Nor is anything being done to invest more in the training of doctors so that we can have more of them. Canada’s health care system has become so sick now that they are trying to privatize it. This is the biggest mistake that our country is making. The Americans would be happy to have a health care system like ours, but the Conservatives are selling it out to move toward U.S.-style health care. That is totally unacceptable.

The government boasts about helping ordinary people in its budget: working people, middle class people, the poor. It is very important, though, to read what is on page 201 of the budget that the government presented on February 26, 2008 in the “Income tax” subsection of the “Tax revenues” section. The government boasts about significant tax cuts for individuals and working people in its budgets, but we should not forget that back in October, the official opposition helped pass $14 billion worth of tax cuts for big business. The banks, oil companies and other profitable companies are certainly very happy about that.

However, when I look at page 201 of the budget, I find it hard to understand how the ordinary person is going to come out ahead. It clearly states that personal income tax will net the government $112,515 billion in 2007-08.

That $112,515 billion is the projection for 2007-08. For 2009-10, the projection is $125,475 billion, a 12% increase for ordinary people who are in the labour market. We are not talking about Conrad Black. We are talking about ordinary people who get up and take their lunch box and go to work. The person who goes out on the land to work, the woman who gets up to go to work in a fish plant or in the tourism industry.

There will be a 12% increase from 2007-08 to 2009-10. I will repeat the figures because it is important to repeat them. The government will take in $112,515 billion in 2007-08 and a projected $125,475 billion in 2009-10.

When it comes to companies, it is taking in $42,405 billion, and in 2009-10 the government will take in $36,570 billion. That is a 14% decrease for big companies and a 12% increase for ordinary people. That is on page 201 of the federal government’s budget.

In another place, the government turned around because it was forced to in the House of Commons. I think it was somewhat embarrassed. A tax cut of $14 billion was given to big companies last year while industry was going under, be it the forestry industry or the manufacturing industry. Plants are closing everywhere. For example, there are UPM in Miramichi, Smurfit-Stone in Bathurst and AbitibiBowater. The same thing happened with Smurfit-Stone in New Richmond. Those companies closed down. When the Conservatives saw the closings, they said they were going to give a billion dollars to assist industry everywhere in Canada. A billion dollars for all of Canada, which means only $30 million for New Brunswick.

That shows that the government’s budget is not a budget to help ordinary people. And yet we hear the Conservatives saying they are proud of the budget. We now have people 65 and older who can go out to work. That is a good budget all right! The Conservatives are going to get people 65 and older back to work. That is what we are hearing from the Conservatives: that they are happy that at long last, people 65 and older are going to be able to go out to work. What we want is to put young people to work. We want to give older people a chance to retire.

The Conservatives themselves are saying that at last people 65 and older are going to be able to go out to work, and it will be good for them to have $100 more. Certainly it will be good for them, because they are not able to pay for their prescription drugs and use their cars to go to the doctor.

That is what we have come to. That is the government’s budget. That is why we are going to vote against it. It would be nice if the Liberals were here to vote and had the strength to stand up and tell the truth. They say they do not agree with the budget, but they are not voting in favour of it or are not voting at all. Tonight, we will see who—

Financial Statement of Minister of FinanceThe BudgetGovernment Orders

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Royal Galipeau

We have to move on to questions and comments now. The hon. member for Northumberland—Quinte West.

Financial Statement of Minister of FinanceThe BudgetGovernment Orders

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

Rick Norlock Conservative Northumberland—Quinte West, ON

Mr. Speaker, I listened intently to my friend talk about what the $3,500 could be used for. I would like to tell my friend what it can be used for, not necessarily just to go out to work.

How about some of those seniors who call me and tell me that last year they lost their GIS because their refrigerator went on the blink and they had to go into their savings account and draw some money out, which made them ineligible for some of the GIS, so it went down. Those are the people we are listening to.

We are also listening to some of the people who say that we need more jobs in our country. The way to create more jobs in our country is to develop a climate where companies want to invest.

For the gloom and doomers in here, I want to say that 7,000 jobs will be created in Baie Comeau over the next little while because ALCOA is investing in an aluminum smelter plant on the north shore. This is a move, the company says, that will help safeguard thousands of jobs in that province. That did not just happen by accident. We are making Canada a place to invest, a place where 7,000 jobs can be created because a company is expanding in an area.

What is so wrong with a budget that creates 7,000 jobs? What is so wrong with a budget that does not want to claw back seniors' GIS because their refrigerator is going on the blink? What is so wrong with that kind of budget?

Financial Statement of Minister of FinanceThe BudgetGovernment Orders

4:45 p.m.

NDP

Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB

Mr. Speaker, what is wrong with the budget is when a spouse of a veteran cannot get the VIP before 1981. That is what is wrong with the budget.

What is wrong with the budget is when the member from the Conservative Party, who just spoke a few minutes ago, said that he was happy with the government budget because people over 65 years of age will be able to go to work because they need the money.

The reason they need the money is because of the budget that the Conservatives are coming out with, giving big breaks to big corporations but when it comes to the people who need affordable housing, they do not have it. When they need money for education and health care, they do not get the money for it. That is what is wrong with the budget.

What is wrong with the budget is when the government gives $14 billion to big corporations and $1 billion to resolve the problems in forestry. We lost all the sawmills in northern New Brunswick. We lost the sawmills on the Gaspé coast and we lost them all over the country. The forestry industry is closing down as well as the manufacturing sector. That is what is wrong with the budget.

The Conservatives looked after the big boys last year in October, but when it comes time to look after the little people, that is not what they did. If the budget is so good, why are all the Conservative members running around asking why we are not voting with them. We tried to vote with the Liberals on the motion last night to bring the government down on the budget. They should make up their minds.

Financial Statement of Minister of FinanceThe BudgetGovernment Orders

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Royal Galipeau

The member for Chambly—Borduas has one minute to ask his question.