Debates of April 30th, 2008

Elections Canada

[Michael Ignatieff, Liberal, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

Mr. Speaker, it is a curious spectacle. It is a very simple question. It is easy to answer, so let me try.

I ask the Prime Minister, when did he know about the Conservative Party's election advertising scheme and did he approve it?

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the President of the Treasury Board]

Mr. Speaker, the director general of the Liberal Party of Canada in Alberta wrote local Liberal campaigns saying, “During the past election campaign, the Liberal Party of Canada in Alberta transferred funds and/or paid for services in kind directly to the candidate...”. This included an ad in the Edmonton Journal. Only the national party dealt with the media outlet. Elections Canada has no evidence that the local campaigns approved these ads, but they were booked as local expenses, helping the Liberal Party pad its taxpayer rebates.

When did the deputy leader know about that?

[Michael Ignatieff, Liberal, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

Mr. Speaker, that was not the question, and we are still waiting for a clear answer to a clear question.

When did the Prime Minister find out about this Conservative election advertising scheme? Did he approve it? How about some respect for our institutions, please.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the President of the Treasury Board]

Mr. Speaker, the woman the hon. member replaced as deputy leader of his party, Anne McLellan, is implicated in the Liberals' own in and out process.

This was a scheme in which the Liberal Party headquarters organized the ad, dealt with all the invoices, ran the ad, without apparently even the knowledge of the local official agents, and then it was booked locally so Liberals could pad their taxpayer rebates and stay under their national limit.

When did the deputy leader of the Liberal Party know?

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, a few days before the January 2006 election, in an attempt to convince Canadians to elect him, the Prime Minister stated that his party would never have absolute power because public servants, judges and democratic institutions would always be there to serve as a counterweight. But since he came to power, what has the Prime Minister done? He has appointed judges who share his ideology, gotten rid of senior officials who do not think the same way he does and discredited democratic institutions like Elections Canada.

Does the Prime Minister have a problem with democracy?

[Stephen Harper, Conservative, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, our lawsuit against Elections Canada is not the first of its kind. This is not the first time a party has had a legal dispute with Elections Canada.

In fact, in 2002, the Bloc Québécois went against the will of Elections Canada and took legal action against one of its own candidates, Jean-Paul Marchand, to force him to take part in an in and out scheme.

If forced in and out schemes are legal, then voluntary in and out schemes are as well.

[Gilles Duceppe, Bloc, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, it is legal to transfer money, just as it is legal to withdraw money from the bank. However, it is illegal to do so by putting a gun to someone's head. The method used is important.

This is the first time a government has attacked the credibility of one of its own democratic institutions. Elections Canada is often called on to act as an observer during elections in other countries.

If the Prime Minister no longer has confidence in Elections Canada, how are countries that ask this institution to make sure their general elections are conducted properly supposed to have confidence in Elections Canada?

[Stephen Harper, Conservative, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the first time I saw the expression “in and out” was in a lawsuit launched by the Bloc Québécois when the current leader was leading the party. The Bloc had gone against the wishes of Elections Canada in that case. The Bloc won the case, which had to do with a forced in and out scheme involving Bloc candidates.

The leader of the Bloc Québécois originated the in and out method.

Election Expenses

[Michel Guimond, Bloc, Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute-Côte-Nord, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Conservative Prime Minister has reached the heights of grandstanding in this House.

Yesterday, answering a question concerning allegations by Ms. Dixon from Retail Media, the Prime Minister said, “it is not necessary to deny it because that is not what she said. The leader of the Bloc should be truthful.”

I am now calling on the Prime Minister to be honest and answer me if he can. Can he reaffirm—

[The Speaker, Liberal, Peter Milliken]

The question took too long.

However, the hon. Parliamentary Secretary to the President of the Treasury Board has a response.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the President of the Treasury Board]

Mr. Speaker, the leader of the Bloc is the true father of in and out and that member is the son of in and out.

In a December 2003 National Post article, Andrew McIntosh wrote, “Bloc brass then advised all Bloc candidates, organizers and volunteers to use a system called 'La Methode In & Out' to inflate campaign spending to meet targets.”

It is their method.

[Michel Guimond, Bloc, Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute-Côte-Nord, QC]

Mr. Speaker, it is—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[The Speaker, Liberal, Peter Milliken]

Order. The hon. member for Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute-Côte-Nord has the floor. We need to have some quiet in this House, please.

[Michel Guimond, Bloc, Montmorency—Charlevoix—Haute-Côte-Nord, QC]

It is extraordinary, Mr. Speaker, to hear the Conservatives tell us that a sovereignist party received preferential treatment from Elections Canada. Come on. What a joke. According to the Prime Minister, either Ms. Dixon lied to the Elections Canada investigator, or the investigator made a false statement in the affidavit. I would like the Prime Minister to say that outside this House.

Will the Prime Minister admit that his theory is being completely rejected by Elections Canada and by his own advertising agency?

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the President of the Treasury Board]

Mr. Speaker, it seems ironic that a sovereignist party gets most of its campaigns funded by Canadian taxpayers. According to Elizabeth Thompson, they used the term in and out, “to describe a lucrative arrangement cooked up by the Bloc to take advantage of a loophole in election financing laws to extract the maximum amount of taxpayer-funded refunds from Elections Canada.”

The Economy

[Jack Layton, NDP, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Mr. Speaker, Canadians have lost over 55,000 jobs since the beginning of this year alone. Statistics Canada has now made it official that the Canadian economy is in decline. Canadians have known this and they have witnessed it themselves: gasoline at $1.20 a litre, food prices going up every day, Ontario on the brink of have not status, and the fiscal cupboard is bare.

Why does the Prime Minister keep going to the boardroom tables of the country with more corporate tax cuts when he cannot help out the working families at their kitchen tables trying to figure out how to pay the bills?

[Stephen Harper, Conservative, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, first, the leader of the NDP should get his facts straight. So far this year alone, the Canadian economy has created, net, over 100,000 jobs.

We do recognize cost pressures. That is why we lowered the GST. That is why we lowered the lowest personal rate of taxation. That is why we raised the basic exemption. The NDP voted against those breaks for working people.

[Jack Layton, NDP, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Mr. Speaker, here is what Statistics Canada says today, “Economic activity declined 0.2% in February”. That is called an economy in decline.

The priorities of the government are wrong.

Today there was an announcement about the World Food Programme, but it was not enough. We are giving billions of dollars to big oil companies and crumbs to those who have nothing.

Why is the Prime Minister not taking the world food crisis or the crises facing families right here in our own country seriously?

[Stephen Harper, Conservative, Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, with the Minister of International Cooperation's announcement, Canada has now given more than its share to expand the World Food Programme. Canada is the second-largest donor to the program.

And we have brought in major tax cuts for families and individuals. That includes cutting the GST, raising the personal exemption, and reducing personal income tax for families. The New Democrats should support these cuts for families and individuals.

Elections Canada

[Marlene Jennings, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC]

Mr. Speaker, when did the Prime Minister find out about the existence of the Conservative election advertising scheme? Did he approve it?

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the President of the Treasury Board]

Mr. Speaker, the member for Beauséjour across the way, along with the New Brunswick Liberals, joined in an advertising transfer scheme in the 2006 election, organized by the national party.

A copy of the cheque provided to Elections Canada from the local official agent is made out not to the newspapers in which the ad ran, but rather to the Liberal Party of Canada. The ads in content were national except for a small tag line.

This is the method of in and out that we see on the Liberal side. When did that member know this went on?

[Marlene Jennings, Liberal, Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister did not answer the question, so I will ask it again.

When did the Prime Minister find out about the existence of the Conservative election advertising scheme, and did he approve it?

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the President of the Treasury Board]

Mr. Speaker, the advertisement said that the member for Beauséjour and his campaign had locally paid for it. In fact, none of his returns showed that payment had been made. Either it was false advertising and he did not actually pay for the ad that he claimed he had, or he failed to report some of his election expenses to Elections Canada.

When did the Liberal Party know about these very strange in and out transactions in the New Brunswick Liberal Party?

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

Mr. Speaker, let us try it again. When did the Prime Minister know about the Conservative election advertising scheme and did he approve it?