House of Commons Hansard #113 of the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was quebec.

Topics

Motions in AmendmentTsawwassen First Nation Final Agreement ActGovernment Orders

5:15 p.m.

Conservative

Harold Albrecht Conservative Kitchener—Conestoga, ON

Mr. Speaker, as a member of the Standing Committee on Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development, I am pleased to speak today to Bill C-34.

The Tsawwassen First Nation final agreement was negotiated by Canada, the Province of British Columbia and the Tsawwassen First Nation.

Tsawwassen treaty negotiations began 15 years ago in 1993. Tsawwassen members ratified the final agreement through a community vote, with 70% of eligible members voting in favour. In October 2007, the Province of British Columbia introduced and subsequently passed settlement legislation to ratify the Tsawwassen final agreement.

The majority of the clauses in Bill C-34, which have been proposed for deletion, are fundamental to the Tsawwassen First Nation final agreement. The effect of removing these clauses would render Canada unable to fulfill the commitments it has made in the final agreement. In fact, deleting these clauses would effectively result in Canada not ratifying the Tsawwassen First Nation final agreement.

Canada negotiated the Tsawwassen First Nation final agreement in good faith and we are fully committed to implementing this agreement with all its provisions and commitments. To delete these fundamental clauses of Bill C-34 would be unacceptable, unfair to the parties and to the agreement, and a dishonour to the Crown.

When Tsawwassen chief, Kim Baird, addressed the provincial assembly in November, she said that one of the most important things the Tsawwassen treaty achieved was a new relationship between the Tsawwassen, British Columbia and Canada, that it achieved reconciliation, that true reconciliation signified real action and tangible change and that true reconciliation was the product of this treaty.

I am proud of the Tsawwassen First Nation final agreement and all Canadians can be proud of this treaty. It represents a positive and tangible step forward in building a new relationship with the Tsawwassen First Nation and the Crown.

I would like to take this opportunity, however, to address concerns that have been expressed about the possible impact of tax sharing arrangements on non-member residents of Tsawwassen First Nation lands. No such tax sharing arrangements have been concluded and may not be concluded for many years.

However, the Government of Canada supports the exercise of tax powers by first nations and has a well established policy approach for negotiating tax sharing arrangements with aboriginal governments. About 40 such arrangements have already been concluded under existing legal frameworks, such as the First Nations Goods and Services Tax Act enacted by Parliament in 2003.

Such GST and personal income tax arrangements are outside the treaty and would not change the amount of tax that non-member residents of first nation lands would pay, how they pay their taxes or what they receive in the way of federal services or benefits. These tax arrangements will not affect the ability of resident non-members to vote in federal or provincial elections or to make their views known.

The Tsawwassen treaty itself does not give the Tsawwassen First Nation the ability to impose taxes on non-members of the first nation. The first nations tax system only applies to non-Tsawwassen members through government to government agreements outside the treaty. Canada will only answer these arrangements under conditions that would protect non-members' interests, such as full harmonization and coordination with the corresponding federal tax.

There would be no additional tax burden on non-members. GST and income tax would continue to apply in exactly the same way as enacted by Parliament in federal tax legislation, using the same rates, the same rules and the same Canada Revenue Agency forms, administration and recourse processes.

Based on delegated, discretionary and terminable tax arrangements, Parliament retains ongoing political accountability for the application of the tax to non-members and for its decision to share tax room. Under these circumstances, these arrangements do respect the principle of representation.

Tax sharing arrangements would also include mechanisms to contain the amount of forgone federal revenue where, for example, non-members of the first nations account for a significant proportion of the first nation tax base. For instance, if such a tax arrangement were in place now, the Department of Finance estimates that about 40% of the total personal income tax derived from all residents of Tsawwassen lands would be shared with Tsawwassen and Canada would retain 60%.

Finally, I would stress that these taxes would apply equally to members of the Tsawwassen First Nation. The Tsawwassen treaty will end the existing Indian Act tax exemption following an agreed upon transition period. It, therefore, encourages the first nation to exercise its tax powers. These taxes would generate revenues that would help to fund the first nation's programs and services. They would contribute to the shared responsibility for funding self-government and reduce dependence on federal transfers. They would also encourage greater accountability between the first nation and its citizens and thereby promote better governance.

It is clear that it is important that Parliament pass Bill C-34 in the form in which it was ratified by Tsawwassen members and by the British Columbia legislature.

Motions in AmendmentTsawwassen First Nation Final Agreement ActGovernment Orders

5:25 p.m.

Conservative

John Cummins Conservative Delta—Richmond East, BC

Mr. Speaker, it is a new relationship all right between Tsawwassen, B.C. and Canada. The member suggested that the comments I made about income taxes being paid by band members and non-members resident on the reserve was incorrect.

The information that I have and that I quoted from was given by the Department of Finance to the Tsawwassen Indian Band in a briefing prior to the band voting on the treaty. The band was assured that the income taxes of members resident on the reserve would not go to the federal government and that non-residents currently residing on the reserve would not pay taxes to the federal government but that they too would pay taxes to the band government. The band was reassured that probably 80% of the tax revenue that would be collected by the band would come from non-band members.

That was from the briefing note prepared by the Department of Finance. I do not think I was too far wrong unless the Department of Finance was misleading the band.

I never suggested that there would be an additional tax burden on the residents or the folks who are living on the reserve because their taxes will go to the Tsawwassen Band. In fact, they will be entitled to all the tax privileges that we all have, the write-offs and so on. The only difference is that at the end of the day the federal government will cut a cheque for the money they paid in taxes to the Tsawwassen Indian Band, which means there will be a shortfall for the rest of us. The estimate of that, given that the department has said that something like $1.5 million in federal taxes would have gone to the Tsawwassen Band in 2007 if the deal had been cut, is that $100 million will go to native bands in British Columbia after all of these treaties are concluded. That is straight tax money. If it is a 4:1 ratio, that is a lot of money.

The issue I raised about taxes still stands as I stated it. As I say, I have the full documentation from the briefing notes and the speaking notes that the Department of Finance used when it addressed members of the Tsawwassen Band prior to signing the treaty.

Motions in AmendmentTsawwassen First Nation Final Agreement ActGovernment Orders

5:25 p.m.

Conservative

Harold Albrecht Conservative Kitchener—Conestoga, ON

Mr. Speaker, perhaps part of the misunderstanding or misinterpretation here is related to the amount of taxes that are paid currently by non-members. That is primarily a result of the fact, as has been pointed out previously in our debate today, that there are more non-members living in the Tsawwassen area than there are members and also many of these non-members are making larger incomes than many of the members. We feel that is unacceptable. One of the primary reasons that we feel this agreement should be ratified in its current form is to minimize some of the current inequities that occur.

One of the goals of this treaty, in fact probably the primary goal of this treaty, is to reduce first nations reliance on government funding. The Tsawwassen will contribute to the funding of its government from its own sources of revenue. Under this tax sharing arrangement, the first nation can obtain a predictable source of revenue in an efficient and effective way in order to help meet its needs and provide programs and services.

I want to underline that these tax revenues will help to reduce the dependence on federal transfers, thereby contributing to the goals that we all have in this place, which is of self-reliance and shared responsibility for funding self-government.

Motions in AmendmentTsawwassen First Nation Final Agreement ActGovernment Orders

5:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Andrew Scheer

Questions or comments. There are only 30 seconds left, so if the hon. member for Delta—Richmond East has a very brief question or comment.

Motions in AmendmentTsawwassen First Nation Final Agreement ActGovernment Orders

5:30 p.m.

Conservative

John Cummins Conservative Delta—Richmond East, BC

Yes, Mr. Speaker. I would point out to my friend that this does not reduce first nations reliance on government funding. It simply redirects it. The money that is paid by taxpayers is simply going to be routed through the federal government and right back. There is no reduction in reliance. It is simply a shell game. The money is still going to flow and it has done nothing to increase--

Motions in AmendmentTsawwassen First Nation Final Agreement ActGovernment Orders

5:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Andrew Scheer

I will have to stop the hon. member there.

The hon. member for Kitchener—Conestoga.

Motions in AmendmentTsawwassen First Nation Final Agreement ActGovernment Orders

5:30 p.m.

Conservative

Harold Albrecht Conservative Kitchener—Conestoga, ON

Mr. Speaker, in fairness, when we look at the rebates that are given to municipalities, whether it is the GST rebate or any of those types of tax sharing arrangements between the federal government and other levels of government, it is reasonable that this agreement also recognize those same privileges for the members of the Tsawwassen Band.

Motions in AmendmentTsawwassen First Nation Final Agreement ActGovernment Orders

5:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Andrew Scheer

Is the House ready for the question?

Motions in AmendmentTsawwassen First Nation Final Agreement ActGovernment Orders

5:30 p.m.

Some hon. members

Question.

Motions in AmendmentTsawwassen First Nation Final Agreement ActGovernment Orders

5:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Andrew Scheer

The question is on Motion No. 1. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

Motions in AmendmentTsawwassen First Nation Final Agreement ActGovernment Orders

5:30 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

No.

Motions in AmendmentTsawwassen First Nation Final Agreement ActGovernment Orders

5:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Andrew Scheer

All those in favour of the motion will please say yea.

Motions in AmendmentTsawwassen First Nation Final Agreement ActGovernment Orders

5:30 p.m.

Some hon. members

Yea.

Motions in AmendmentTsawwassen First Nation Final Agreement ActGovernment Orders

5:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Andrew Scheer

All those opposed will please say nay.

Motions in AmendmentTsawwassen First Nation Final Agreement ActGovernment Orders

5:30 p.m.

Some hon. members

Nay.

Motions in AmendmentTsawwassen First Nation Final Agreement ActGovernment Orders

5:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Andrew Scheer

In my opinion the nays have it.

I declare the motion lost.

I therefore declare Motion Nos. 2 and 6 lost.

(Motion Nos. 1, 2 and 6 negatived)

The next question is on Motion No. 3.

Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

Motions in AmendmentTsawwassen First Nation Final Agreement ActGovernment Orders

5:30 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

No.

Motions in AmendmentTsawwassen First Nation Final Agreement ActGovernment Orders

5:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Andrew Scheer

All those in favour of the motion will please say yea.

Motions in AmendmentTsawwassen First Nation Final Agreement ActGovernment Orders

5:30 p.m.

Some hon. members

Yea.

Motions in AmendmentTsawwassen First Nation Final Agreement ActGovernment Orders

5:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Andrew Scheer

All those opposed will please say nay.

Motions in AmendmentTsawwassen First Nation Final Agreement ActGovernment Orders

5:30 p.m.

Some hon. members

Nay.

Motions in AmendmentTsawwassen First Nation Final Agreement ActGovernment Orders

5:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Andrew Scheer

In my opinion the nays have it.

I declare the motion lost.

I therefore declare Motion Nos. 4 and 7 also lost.

(Motion Nos. 3, 4 and 7 negatived)

The next question is on Motion No. 5.

Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

Motions in AmendmentTsawwassen First Nation Final Agreement ActGovernment Orders

5:30 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

No.

Motions in AmendmentTsawwassen First Nation Final Agreement ActGovernment Orders

5:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Andrew Scheer

All those in favour of the motion will please say yea.

Motions in AmendmentTsawwassen First Nation Final Agreement ActGovernment Orders

5:30 p.m.

Some hon. members

Yea.