Debates of Nov. 26th, 2009

Afghanistan

[Peter MacKay, Conservative, Minister of National Defence and Minister for the Atlantic Gateway]

Mr. Speaker, again, as has been said a number of times, documents that are legally required to be made available will be made available.

The committee passed motions just yesterday, I note, with reference to requests for information. We will respond appropriately, but appropriately in keeping within the laws of Canada, within the laws of the evidence, the National Defence Act, and protecting national security.

The hon. member opposite may not be concerned with that. I would have thought that former members of government would have an understanding of the need to protect national security, but apparently not.

[Jack Layton, NDP, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of National Defence has told the House that he did not even know who Richard Colvin was. Then he called him a Taliban dupe. Last week he said he may have received a report to which Mr. Colvin contributed, but that he did not bother to read it.

Today he stands up and says that he is co-operating with the standing committee, but he has just enumerated a whole list of excuses why certain documents are not going to be provided. Of course, the government is going to wrap it up in so-called security concerns.

Why will the government not agree with our call for a public inquiry?

[John Baird, Conservative, Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, the government has been very clear. We have and will continue to provide all legally available information.

We think national security is important. We also think the safety of our men and women in uniform is paramount, and that is something we will never ever negotiate. Our government stands solidly behind our men and women in uniform and we make absolutely no apologies for that whatsoever.

Copenhagen Conference

[Jack Layton, NDP, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the Copenhagen climate change conference is very important for the future of our planet.

American President Barack Obama will be there. The German Chancellor, the prime ministers of Britain and Australia will be there, as well as the presidents of Brazil and France. More than 65 heads of state and government have already confirmed that they will attend.

Will the Prime Minister confirm that he will be in Copenhagen to discuss this issue that is very important to us and to our future?

[John Baird, Conservative, Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, Canada is committed to a successful climate change outcome. The Prime Minister stood up in the House yesterday and said that if a significant number of other world leaders were attending, he would. In fact, he will be in Copenhagen.

[Jack Layton, NDP, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Mr. Speaker, we are glad that the Prime Minister is finally taking this issue seriously and has taken his head out of the tar sands.

The question is whether he is going to go with any kind of plan. So far, we have seen no plan, even though it was promised by the Minister of the Environment.

Canada's true north is at risk. That is why we need to be more concerned about this issue than perhaps even some other countries. The permafrost is melting. Infrastructures are falling apart. Aboriginal people and their way of life are being threatened fundamentally.

Where is the plan? Why is the government disappointing Canadians and the world on climate change?

[John Baird, Conservative, Minister of Transport]

Mr. Speaker, as I said, Canada is committed to a successful climate change outcome in Copenhagen. Many government officials, the Minister of the Environment, even the Prime Minister, will be there to forcefully argue for a strong agreement. We believe that an agreement must be effective. We believe that an agreement must be ambitious and must include all emitters.

Due to the integrated nature of our economies, the Prime Minister and the Minister of the Environment have been working closely with the Obama administration and will continue to do so in the days and weeks ahead.

Afghanistan

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Papineau, QC]

Mr. Speaker, We now have the sad spectacle of Mr. Colvin, the three generals yesterday and no doubt Mr. Mulroney today all having access to documents that members of Parliament cannot see. We are barred from having access to information that the government itself has full control of and that ministers and even retired generals can review. We are asked to do our work in total darkness. This is a flagrant case of obstruction of justice.

How can the government justify this charade?

[Peter MacKay, Conservative, Minister of National Defence and Minister for the Atlantic Gateway]

Mr. Speaker, I cannot help the hon. member if he feels he is in the dark.

Just yesterday, the committee passed a motion asking that legally available information be tabled. That will happen. The committee passed a motion seeking those documents. As would be expected on issues that involve national security and sensitive information that could affect troops in the field, it will be looked at as far as the Canada Evidence Act and National Defence Act are concerned, always keeping national security front and centre.

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Papineau, QC]

Mr. Speaker, bits of blacked-out documents with key information missing are not disclosure. Non-answers in the House are not disclosure. Rhetorical personal attacks are not disclosure. We need to get at the truth. The international reputation of Canada and our military is at stake here.

Why is the government afraid of a public inquiry to get at the truth?

[Peter MacKay, Conservative, Minister of National Defence and Minister for the Atlantic Gateway]

Mr. Speaker, this matter is being aired in a parliamentary committee. It was heard by the Military Police Complaints Commission until it was shut down by the chair. There have been other arm's-length bodies that have also looked at the issue.

With respect to the highly sought after reports, this is what General Hillier had to say. The allegations that officials turned a blind eye to torture are “ludicrous” and “absolutely untrue”.

Those are the words of a high-ranking general.

There was “nothing about abuse, nothing about torture or anything else that would have caught my attention or indeed the attention of others” in those reports.

This again is from a trusted general, not a partisan opposition.

[Siobhan Coady, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday the Afghanistan committee was told there was nothing in Mr. Colvin's reports that would set off alarm bells among ordinary Canadians.

Let me quote one of Mr. Colvin's reports: “They hit us with cables and wires”. One detainee reported he was “shocked with electricity” and personally “showed us a number of scars on his legs, which he said were caused by the beating”.

That report predates Canada's decision to halt transfers.

Why did that information not set off alarm bells in the government?

[Peter MacKay, Conservative, Minister of National Defence and Minister for the Atlantic Gateway]

Mr. Speaker, I guess the obvious question is, was it a Canadian transferred detainee? That would be the question I would have.

We would certainly have general concerns, as we did, which is why we acted, why we invested in the prison system, why we began to train prison officials and police, and why we invested in the physical infrastructure. One hundred thirty-two million taxpayer dollars went into improving that situation. That is how seriously we took it.

Let us look at it. We did not base our actions upon people making statements like all detainees were tortured. How ludicrous a statement is that from one single individual who really had no knowledge to be able to say something like that?

We believe General Hillier, not the member opposite.

[Siobhan Coady, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

Mr. Speaker, “I do not know” is not a responsible answer.

The report also notes that Afghan officials had no list of Canadian detainees and they only had “reasonable confidence” that the detainees interviewed were transferred by Canadians.

Will the minister tell the House that he can account for the whereabouts, the treatment and the status of each and every Canadian transferred detainee? Does he know that information, up to date, today?

[Peter MacKay, Conservative, Minister of National Defence and Minister for the Atlantic Gateway]

Mr. Speaker, clearly she does not know. That is a question she may have for herself.

Here is what General Hillier had to say about the reports, “nothing about abuse, nothing about torture or anything else that would have caught my attention or indeed the attention of others”.

These are generals, highly respected leaders in the Canadian Forces, on the ground during the period in question, who have cast serious doubt over the allegations of one individual who has given testimony.

Let us wait for others, like the generals yesterday, to have a full picture of what took place during the period in question, not the partisan attacks, not the righteous indignation, not the feigned concern of the member opposite.

The Environment

[Bernard Bigras, Bloc, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the National Round Table on the Environment and the Economy has given the government a serious warning. Canada must not only reduce its emissions, but immediately reorient its policies to adapt to the effects of climate change already being felt, particularly in the Arctic, where temperatures are rising twice as fast as anywhere else in the world.

Will the Minister of the Environment listen to this appeal and come up with an ambitious plan to reduce greenhouse gases and deal with anticipated climate changes?

[Jim Prentice, Conservative, Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, our government understands that, as a northern country, Canada is particularly vulnerable to climate change and is interested in adaptation. That was why the Mayo B hydro project in Yukon was the first project approved by this government under the green infrastructure plan, a $71 million hydro project.

Since 2007, this government has invested over $85 million to help Canadians adapt to climate change, $21 million of which has actually been invested in the north. In addition, we have the massive expansion of the Nahanni, protection of East Arm of Great Slave Lake and other things that the government is doing to deal with—

[The Speaker, Liberal, Peter Milliken]

The hon. member for Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie.

[Bernard Bigras, Bloc, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the government needs to acknowledge that a greenhouse gas reduction plan that uses 2005 or 2006 as its base year instead of 1990 will penalize companies that have acted responsibly in the past, such as those in Quebec's manufacturing sector. Such a plan will end up rewarding industrial sectors that have done nothing for the past 15 years.

Instead of rewarding oil companies and the auto sector, will the Conservative government come up with a plan that recognizes the work Quebec has already done?

[Jim Prentice, Conservative, Minister of the Environment]

Mr. Speaker, we have a strategy. We have a policy. Yesterday evening, I met with my provincial and territorial colleagues to finalize our preparations for the Copenhagen conference. Canada wants an agreement to come out of Copenhagen, an agreement that will include all major emitters. In Copenhagen, Canada will speak with one voice and will ensure that the new agreement is consistent with Canadian realities.

Employment Insurance

[Josée Beaudin, Bloc, Saint-Lambert, QC]

Mr. Speaker, according to the former EI chief actuary, Michel Bédard, the contribution rate announced for self-employed workers in Quebec, $1.36 per $100, is far too high. It should be 41¢ to cover the real costs of the new benefits provided for in Bill C-56.

Will the minister admit that the contribution rate for self-employed workers in Quebec is three times the actual costs of the special sickness and compassionate benefits, the only new benefits they can receive under Bill C-56?

[Jean-Pierre Blackburn, Conservative, Minister of National Revenue and Minister of State (Agriculture)]

Mr. Speaker, I am glad to see that the Bloc Québécois finally believes we have done something positive by introducing measures to support self-employed workers and provide them with additional benefits.

Of course, we have looked at the costs. We know that the benefits must be self-funding, and our system was designed to reflect the fact that Quebec already provided certain benefits for self-employed workers. There is a difference between the rest of Canada and Quebec in this case, but what we have done is perfectly proper.

[Yves Lessard, Bloc, Chambly—Borduas, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I have here the document that the former EI chief actuary sent me. It confirms what we thought, which is that the contribution rate announced for self-employed workers in Quebec is excessive, in light of the real costs of the benefits in the bill. The Bloc Québécois is proposing an amendment to correct this inequity.

Will the government set aside partisan politics and support our amendment to be fair to self-employed workers in Quebec, who already have access to parental leave?

[Jean-Pierre Blackburn, Conservative, Minister of National Revenue and Minister of State (Agriculture)]

Mr. Speaker, as hon. members know, this is the fourth measure our government has introduced to support workers who lose their jobs in these tough economic times. In addition, it represents the fulfilment of an election promise. We had said that we would introduce benefits for self-employed workers. From what we are hearing in the field, I believe that self-employed workers are very happy that our government is bringing in measures to help them.

The Environment

[David McGuinty, Liberal, Ottawa South, ON]

Mr. Speaker, every Canadian province already has a climate change plan.

Eight of the provinces have an average reduction target of 14% below 1990 levels by 2020. That is almost five times more than what the Conservatives are proposing.

How are we to believe that the Prime Minister will show leadership in Copenhagen, when, just two hours ago, he was not even planning on going?

Seriously, he does not have a plan. He has nothing. Are we going to become the laughingstock of the entire world?