House of Commons Hansard #30 of the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was senate.

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Canada-EFTA Free Trade Agreement Implementation ActGovernment Orders

10:05 a.m.

Okanagan—Coquihalla B.C.

Conservative

Stockwell Day ConservativeMinister of International Trade and Minister for the Asia-Pacific Gateway

moved that Bill C-2, An Act to implement the Free Trade Agreement between Canada and the States of the European Free Trade Association (Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway, Switzerland), the Agreement on Agriculture between Canada and the Republic of Iceland, the Agreement on Agriculture between Canada and the Kingdom of Norway and the Agreement on Agriculture between Canada and the Swiss Confederation, be read the third time and passed.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank my colleagues for taking an interest in the bill before us today.

I realize that free trade agreements can cause some conflict. Our world has been hit hard by the global economic crisis, and the crisis will have an impact here at home. We can take comfort in the fact that Canada has the most stable banking system in the world.

However, we must also recognize that our industries, our workers and our exporters are all under pressure.

That is why it is important for the government to do everything in its power to make things better by developing policies and programs that will lighten the burden on our industries and companies.

We know we are in a time of fiscal crisis and we know there are pressures all around. It is in times like these, more than any other, from the government's point of view and, I think, most Canadians that we should be looking at opportunities to open up the doors for, not just Canadian companies, but Canadian workers also. We should not be looking at ways in which to build walls but in fact to tear down walls and to open up possibilities.

History is very clear, as we have indicated before, that when we build a trade wall up we bring our economy down. We do not want to see that happen, which is why we are taking a number of initiatives to pursue possibilities for Canadian workers and businesses to make their products and services more available world-wide.

As our economic history shows, we are as prosperous as we are in Canada because of the fact that we believe in trading freely. Because of our great capabilities, not just on the technology side but because we are innovative and productive, we can actually produce more products than we can all, as individual Canadians, consume.

Therefore, if we are going to truly move in the area of increased prosperity, we need to look for ways to sell our goods and services abroad into other countries. That is why pursuing free trade agreements, or more comprehensive economic agreements, as some countries prefer to refer to them, is part of our plan.

Free trade agreements are very significant. They will help Canadian producers and our workers. However, we also need to look at, as we do, areas like funding research and innovation, research and development and science and technology agreements. We pursue air agreements and open sky agreements with other countries to advance the air industry and make travel and the shipment of cargo even more productive and more competitive. We do a number of things, on several fronts, to ensure Canadians are positioned among the best in the world so their products and services can be manufactured and sold abroad.

This particular agreement, which is represented by Bill C-2, involves what will be the first ever free trade agreement with European countries. Iceland, Norway, Switzerland and Liechtenstein agree with us that there will be mutual benefits if we can tear down tariff walls, tear down the barriers that make trade more difficult back and forth and open the doors of opportunities on both sides.

If we look at last year's figures, we have about a $4.2 billion relationship when it comes to merchandise exporting and trade and, even more important, we have over $18 billion of direct investment. That means jobs for Canadians and the expansion of Canadian activity. We have a fairly stable and productive trading relationship with these countries, which are pulled together in this bill known as the EFTA, and we want to see this continue and enhanced.

As important as this bill is and as important as trade is with the individual countries that are named in this bill, it also serves, and we are not hiding this fact, as a lever into the larger EU community. Colleagues will know that we have made great progress on the EU front with 27 other countries eventually encompassed in the EU agreement. We have now gone through what is called the scoping exercise or the first phase of discussions and are very close to getting into official and formal negotiations with the broader EU community. That is something we are hoping to see develop over the next few months.

However, right now we want to focus on the countries named in this particular bill. These are friendly countries and long-standing friends and allies, and we want to see our capabilities back and forth to continue.

A number of issues have been raised, some in committee and others over a long period of time, in terms of consultation. I thank all the members of the committee for recognizing that a lot of work has gone on and a lot of consultation has taken place and we believe all of the substantive issues have been addressed.

These are not always easy discussions at the committee level, especially if there are ideological differences, but my sense is that most of us in the chamber and most of the people on the committee recognize that the opening of doors and the expansion of opportunities is something that is key to us at any time, regardless of the economic environment but especially now in a tough time of economic pressure.

It is important to note that political and democratic pressures come to bear in the negotiations of free trade agreements. Inevitably, certain industries will feel that if they do not have the protection of a tariff wall and they do not have the ability to tax goods coming into the country even before they get here, thereby forcing up the prices so that the goods coming into the country are less attractive to Canadian consumers, the Canadian product is more attractive because an incoming good has a tariff slapped on to it. Some industries, invariably, will be affected by any trade agreement. These are called sensitivities, which is why we work with those industries to try, as far as possible, to soften the impact of a free trade agreement.

I will use one example in this particular agreement that is represented in Bill C-2 and that has to do with the shipbuilding industry. We have had consultations with the shipbuilding industry that go back as far as the 1990s because there have been very high tariffs in that particular industry, some as high as 25% or more. That would mean that a product coming into Canada that is under the shipbuilding umbrella could be facing a tariff as high as 25% or more, which means that the price of the product coming in is artificially raised because a tariff has been slapped on it and that gives a competitive advantage.

We are very careful to protect our industry. When we negotiate a free trade agreement with any country we need to ensure its shipbuilding industry is not being subsidized. We must have a level playing field. I believe, time and again, that Canadians have shown that they can compete with the best anywhere in the world as long as we are on a level playing field. As a government, that is where we need to be vigilant and vigorous when it comes to dealing with other countries. If we are looking at a free trade agreement abroad or an economic comprehensive agreement, we need to be aggressively pushing those other countries to ensure those tariffs are gone and that subsidies to those particular industries are removed so they do not have an unfair advantage competing against Canadians.

On the shipbuilding industry, we have put in place a 15-year phase-out of our tariff. That is the longest phase-out ever in Canadian history in a free trade agreement. We want to make this incremental and we want to give that industry as much time as possible to adapt.

We also have estimated, going over the next three decades, some $43 billion in procurement in the shipbuilding industry. We are showing our shipbuilders that the opportunities are huge moving into the future. We have also put in place a finance structuring facility of up to $50 million that assists our industry in terms of dealing with interest costs when it comes to purchases related to shipbuilding. We have carefully done this in a way that is compliant with our free trade agreements. It will not put us offside or at the risk or threat of any World Trade Organization dispute or any contest.

We have also indicated to our shipbuilding industry that just on the acquisition of Coast Guard vessels alone over the next few years, there are $175 million of acquisition geared specifically to the Canadian industry. Since shipbuilding has been mentioned, I am using it as an example of how we can deal with a particular sector within a free trade agreement.

As elected people, we need to keep in mind that we must be constantly looking at what will be good overall for our producers, manufacturers and the economy of Canada. When we are approached individually by a sector that would be opposed to a particular agreement, we need to consider a couple of things. We first must consider what can we do within the agreement to soften the impact of a free trade agreement and to help that particular industry adjust and stay competitive over time when eventually those tariffs are completely removed.

The other thing we have to consider is this. There will always be in any free trade agreement one or more industries that come forward and say that it will make them less competitive and that they do not want the deal to go ahead. At that time, we not only have to look at it seriously, but we also have to consider that if the deal does not go ahead, other industries will be affected and will stay uncompetitive because we do not have a free trade agreement.

When we look at the agreement in Bill C-2, and we look at, for instance, the fishing industry, which has a huge impact in Atlantic Canada, if we do not move ahead because we have another industry that feels it could not be competitive, an advantage will be lost for our entire marine and fishing industries.

There could be an entire sector of agriculture products that if we did not move ahead with a free trade agreement, we would be still stuck with high tariff walls. If we try to be sensitive to one area, like shipbuilding, our entire agriculture sector will be affected.

Look at the shipment and the export of our paper products. Can we legitimately look at this entire industry, the Canadian companies that manufacture paper products, and say we cannot help with free trade because another sector will be upset, especially in a time when the forestry and paper industry is probably getting hit harder than at any other time in its history?

This is where the democratic process puts us in a bit of a dilemma. We will always have one group of constituents who will be, quite rightly, concerned about a free trade agreement. If we are only being sensitive to that group, we could in fact be denying many other groups the opportunity to more freely and ably market their goods abroad.

We can use the agreement and this arrangement, under Bill C-2, as an example. We can show how we identify an industry, in this case it would be the shipbuilding sector. We have worked with it. We have made the provisions to assist it through this 15 year phase-out period. We have clearly shown the economic advantages and the purchasing opportunities in the years ahead. We have taken great steps to not only sensitize it to a free trade agreement, but also to signal to many other industries that they will benefit from this agreement as well. Provisions are being made and overall, as an economy, we will see things improve.

As we consider Bill C-2 at third reading, I ask our colleagues to give fair thought to this. I ask them to show the world, which is watching us in a time of economic downturn, that Canada does believe that opening the doors of opportunity is the way to go.

This is the worst time for countries to give in to what would be an impulse that is understandable. It is natural that industries, companies and business would step forward and say, in a time of global contraction, that they need protection. The last thing we want to do is start building walls and making it more difficult to market our goods abroad.

We can be a leader and we can be an example. I believe we are doing that. Soon in this assembly we will see free trade agreements related to Peru and Colombia. In the not too distant future we hope to see the materialization of agreements that we are pursuing in Asia and the Americas.

When I was in India last month, I met with the prime minister and the minister of trade. I have an agreement to begin discussion on a more comprehensive trade agreement with India. I will be in China next month where we will open six new trade offices there. We are sending the indicators very clearly, not just in the pursuit of things like science and technology agreement but on a broader array of sectors, that we want an even more vigorous and more robust relationship with China.

At every opportunity we can, we want to allow the world to see and to be aware that Canadian producers, innovators, exporters and merchandisers are the best in the world. We can compete with anybody in the world at any time as long as the playing field is level. This is our intention with our free trade agreements.

I thank members for their involvement in this and hopefully for their support as we continue the third reading discussion on Bill C-2.

Canada-EFTA Free Trade Agreement Implementation ActGovernment Orders

10:20 a.m.

NDP

Peter Stoffer NDP Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS

Mr. Speaker, with great respect to my hon. colleague, he missed out on a few things.

First, he should be aware that the Canadian industry for military Coast Guard Laker and ferry fleets requires an investment of $22 billion over 20 years, not $175 million. None of the major yards will be building hovercrafts or the small Coast Guard vessels. We asked and pleaded for a $22 billion investment over 20 years, and we received $175 million.

The minister talked about structured facility financing. We have asked repeatedly, since 2001 in a report done by business, labour and the communities, to have SFF, structured facility financing, and accelerated cost capital allowance together over five years.

The previous Liberals and the current Conservatives repeatedly said that we could not have a double benefit. All we ask for is that the shipbuilding industry be treated in the same fashion as the aerospace industry.

I could not help but notice the other day when a Conservative MP stood and bragged about the investment in aerospace, yet shipbuilding received a pittance. We know that our five remaining yards cannot live by government procurement alone. They have to be stable. We have five major yards left in the country and a bunch of smaller ones. We are very concerned about them.

It is not that the NDP is against trade deals. We are for them, but we have asked for the exact same thing for which the United States has asked. Since 1924, and the minister should know this, every FTA the United States has signed has excluded shipbuilding marine services from the table. The Americans do not even bring it to these deals. Since they are our largest trading partner, we should have followed suit and done the same thing, but we did not. We know shipbuilding is a deal breaker in EFTA.

The minister is right about subsidies. We have not subsidized our industries for years, but Norway did for over 30 years when it was building up the North Sea oil. It subsidized it heavily to the point where it has it right.

It is not just Norway we are concerned about, because the next talks will be with Korea. Korea has said very clearly that the auto and shipbuilding sectors are major factors in the trade deal. Therefore, we are also concerned about Korea when it comes to shipbuilding and other countries down the road.

My hon. colleague, whom I have great respect for, should understand that we have asked very clearly for the shipbuilding aspect to be taken out of EFTA, and worry about everything else. If he says that we can compete with the rest of the world, that is fine. Does that mean supply management for our farmers—

Canada-EFTA Free Trade Agreement Implementation ActGovernment Orders

10:20 a.m.

Conservative

The Deputy Speaker Conservative Andrew Scheer

Order, please. The hon. Minister of International Trade.

Canada-EFTA Free Trade Agreement Implementation ActGovernment Orders

10:20 a.m.

Conservative

Stockwell Day Conservative Okanagan—Coquihalla, BC

Mr. Speaker, I always appreciate my colleague's input. I am fascinated by his last remark. Is the NDP is coming forward with a position different than ours on supply management? That was fascinating territory for him to be straying into.

Any government program, whether it is a local program to fix potholes or whether it is a federal program to look at exploration in space, by its very nature is always over subscribed.

The member says that we are not doing enough on the facility financing. I think $50 million to assist with the paying down of interest is a lot of money. Could it be more? I guess it could be.

Just announced were $175 million for Coast Guard vessel procurement construction acquisitions. Could it be more? Of course, it could be, but $175 million is really nothing to sneeze at.

We have identified some $45 billion of acquisitions over the next three decades. Could it be more? I guess it could. Could we have put more than $12 billion into our infrastructure and roads program? I guess we could have.

There will always be an argument for more resources in any government program, but those requests should not deter the forward movement of seeing Canadian industries becoming more competitive and doors being opened for them.

That is why we have spent a lot of time with the shipbuilding industry. Let us talk about major shipyards. For the Davie shipyard in Quebec, we went to EDC and pursued the Canada account. We looked for provisions even above and beyond what normally would be available through EDC's deliberation to the point of over $300 million for expanding its facilities, but keeping that from violating other trade agreements. It is not perfect.

We have not produced unlimited funds for every program, but we have gone a long way to ensure that our shipbuilding industry is protected in the appropriate ways that are allowable.

We have not only verbal but written assurance from Norway, and the proof to follow, that it no longer subsidizes its shipbuilding industry. That should be acknowledge as an accomplishment of the EFTA, that we have virtually another country standing back and getting out of the subsidy business.

To say that we should not pursue the agreement because in the past a certain country subsidized a certain industry, then we may as well pack up our bags and go home. Every country is guilty somewhere along the line of having subsidized some industry or another. We should not use that as a reason to stop this agreement.

I appreciate the member's questions, but we need to move ahead. Hopefully we can see program increases in some of the areas that he has mentioned.

Canada-EFTA Free Trade Agreement Implementation ActGovernment Orders

10:25 a.m.

Bloc

Mario Laframboise Bloc Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC

Mr. Speaker, my question for the minister is a simple one. From his speech, I got the feeling that he is not being as bold as international regulations allow with respect to this kind of financial help. For example, with respect to the forestry crisis, the minister insists that loan guarantees are subsidies, and I sense that the same thing will happen with the shipbuilding industry. That worries me.

Despite the fact that his own lawyers handling the forestry file at the WTO have argued that loan guarantees are not subsidies, every day the minister stands up here in the House of Commons and says that loan guarantees violate WTO rules. That worries me, and I would ask him to clarify his position.

Canada-EFTA Free Trade Agreement Implementation ActGovernment Orders

10:25 a.m.

Conservative

Stockwell Day Conservative Okanagan—Coquihalla, BC

Mr. Speaker, my colleague from the Bloc party continues to follow the same path, but his approach is limited. He continues to focus on loan guarantees, an issue that is currently before the courts. I can assure the hon. member that Export Development Canada has programs to help industries across Canada and throughout the province of Quebec.

These include a financing program and a risk insurance program. He can keep on talking about loan guarantees. It is up to him to decide if he wants to continue focusing on an issue that is currently before the courts. We intend to await their decision. Then it will be up to Export Development Canada to decide if we can continue with certain kinds of programs—

Canada-EFTA Free Trade Agreement Implementation ActGovernment Orders

10:25 a.m.

Conservative

The Deputy Speaker Conservative Andrew Scheer

Order, please. I am afraid I will have to cut the hon. member off.

Questions and comments, the hon. member for Calgary Centre.

Canada-EFTA Free Trade Agreement Implementation ActGovernment Orders

10:30 a.m.

Conservative

Lee Richardson Conservative Calgary Centre, AB

Mr. Speaker, I am delighted Bill C-2 has come to third reading because it is part of a broader plan. I wish the minister had more time in his address to speak to the bigger picture, the broader plan of global trading patterns and where we are in Canada's initiatives, being at the forefront of the new trend of freer trade around the world, particularly in this difficult economic time.

When President Obama visited Canada, there was some concern about protectionism. I think the dangers of protectionism became clear to most Canadians, particularly in a tough economic time.

Would the minister comment on the bigger picture? We have debated, at length, Bill C-2, and most of the House has agreed that this is a favourable and positive approach. However, I would like the minister to comment on the bigger picture of free trade and Canada's plans for the future.

Canada-EFTA Free Trade Agreement Implementation ActGovernment Orders

10:30 a.m.

Conservative

Stockwell Day Conservative Okanagan—Coquihalla, BC

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the comments from my colleague from Calgary and also his chairmanship of the committee that has looked at these issues.

There is a much bigger picture involved. I do not want to undermine the individual importance for each of the countries with which we will be engaged under this agreement. However, that broader picture is sending a signal around the world that protectionism is not the way to go, that as elected people, we need to understand the impulse to protect. If we really want to protect an industry, if we really want to protect our workers, then we open up the doors to these free trade agreements.

Canada-EFTA Free Trade Agreement Implementation ActGovernment Orders

10:30 a.m.

Liberal

Navdeep Bains Liberal Mississauga—Brampton South, ON

Mr. Speaker, I am very glad to have this opportunity today to speak on EFTA, as I have done in my previous capacity as the critic for international trade. During my tenure as critic, I had the opportunity to debate this issue, to work on it in committee, and to work with my caucus colleagues in the Liberal Party on this very important bill.

I want to say from the outset that we need to recognize what this debate is really about. This debate is about free and fair trade. I think we as parliamentarians must recognize now more than ever during these hard economic times that we need to promote free and fair trade.

Very close to my constituency of Mississauga—Brampton South, there is an airport that acts as a hub for many businesses that export, and I am reminded that we are seeing the challenges now in this global recession.

I think it is so important that we recognize that we have to avoid the protectionist tendencies that exist in various countries, including here in Canada. We need to recognize that we need to open up our borders and have access of goods and services back and forth to other countries.

We are a nation of 33 million people. For us to succeed and have the quality of life that we enjoy, for us to be able to export the goods and services that we need to make sure we generate the revenue so that we can have government play a role in people's lives and improving people's lives, we need to make sure that we create opportunities for trade and growth, both domestically and abroad.

This morning I was reminded again how difficult this economic situation is and the challenges we face. In the month of February, we lost 83,000 jobs. That is a big number, in my opinion. It speaks volumes about the concerns that people have about job losses.

The unemployment rate now, I think, is close to 7.5% or 7.7%. The projection is that it will go into double digits by the end of the year. These are alarming numbers, and in my opinion, a major cause of concern.

One thing I did hear from the minister and that I do want to echo on behalf of the Liberal Party before I speak on EFTA specifically is the importance of making sure that we promote not only bilateral trade, but multilateral trade.

We are a nation of only 33 million people, and when we engage ourselves in bilateral negotiations with other countries we have a difficult time of negotiating a favourable position because of the relative size of our country. Even though we have great human resources, great potential and great geography, because of the sheer numbers it makes it very difficult for us to get a favourable deal. I think that poses a challenge.

I would encourage this government to work very aggressively through the multilateral system, through the WTO, for example, to be able to negotiate better terms for Canada. That should be the number one priority when it comes to promoting trade with Canada.

The Liberal Party supports Bill C-2, but we have extreme caution and concern with respect to the shipbuilding industry. Yesterday our critic for industry made it very clear that we need to have a national shipbuilding strategy. It is absolutely imperative that we have a strategy in place to help our shipbuilders.

As indicated before by my hon. colleagues, Norway, for example, for many years subsidized their shipbuilding industry and put it in a very unique position in light of this free trade agreement.

I think it is important that Canada has a domestic shipbuilding strategy that puts us in a position where we remain competitive. That would be consistent with provisions in the free trade agreement with respect to the buy Canada procurement policy. I think that is very important and would be consistent with those principles. So I would encourage and request this government to take action immediately in putting together a comprehensive strategy to help the shipbuilding industry.

Another cause of concern that many people had expressed to me, especially from the agricultural sector, was in regard to supply management. I am glad to see that in this bill supply management is protected. It is something that the Liberal Party fought for very hard in committee. It is something we really fought for when this was being negotiated and we made our position very clear to the government. So I would hope people recognize the role we played in shaping some of the elements in this particular free trade agreement.

I want to emphasize why this free trade agreement is important. EFTA countries are the world's fourteenth largest merchandise traders and Canada's fifth largest merchandising export destination. We export billions of dollars worth of goods to the EFTA countries, including nickel, copper, pharmaceuticals, machinery, precious stones, metals, medical devices, aluminum, and so forth. In addition, we import from them pharmaceuticals, organic chemicals, and many other goods and services. I think it is important to recognize that there is a healthy relationship there.

In my opinion, there is one thing that the agreement does lack that is a challenge, because it is a generation one agreement. It does not have a comprehensive strategy to deal with investment, promoting two-way investments and having that flow of investment between both countries. I hope that is something that will be considered in the near future as well to further enhance this very important relationship that we are developing.

There is concern, and I think rightly so, with respect to this bill. I hope the government exercises good judgment and is careful in monitoring this free trade agreement, especially when it comes to the snap-back provisions, if there are violations of any of the provisions in the agreement. The 15-year phase-out should be monitored very carefully to make sure that there is no violation of that. I would encourage the government to really pay attention to those two provisions, which are very important to making sure that the shipbuilding industry, in conjunction with the national shipbuilding strategy, is in a position to be competitive once this free trade agreement comes into effect.

I would like to raise one other very important point. In my opinion, EFTA is just the first step to something bigger. As I alluded to earlier with respect to multilateralism, I think it is important that we use EFTA as a launching pad to negotiate with the European Union. It is a very important trading bloc. It is something that we need to recognize. This downturn reminds us that our dependency on the United States has compromised our position. I think it is very important we recognize that we need to diversify our trade and look at other markets.

One of the other key markets is the European Union. I think there is enormous potential there as well, and I hope the government understands and recognizes the importance of working with not only the EFTA countries but other European nations to be able to promote free and fair trade.

I have taken enormous pride in working very closely with my colleagues in the Liberal Party on this file. As I have indicated before, I think this is a very important step in the right direction to promote trade. Trade is very important now in light of the economic challenges we are facing. As a nation of 30 million plus, we need to recognize that we have to open doors. We need to be in an environment where we foster an openness and a sense of opportunity for our businesses here to succeed. I very much believe in our businesses. I very much believe in our workforce and the fact that we can be productive. We can be competitive. We can be innovative, and we can compete with the rest.

However, I also want to underscore the importance of promoting fair trade. One of the concerns that my colleagues and I have expressed in the past is the fact that Norway, for a very long period of time, subsidized the shipbuilding industry in their country. We need to recognize that. In order to combat that and be able to put ourselves in a favourable position once the 15-year phase-out is eliminated, we need to make sure we have a national shipbuilding strategy.

With that, I just want to say that I look forward to this debate. I look forward to working with my colleagues from all political parties to make sure that this bill is passed and that we continue to promote free and fair trade, consistent with Liberal principles and the legacy of a party that has very much engaged in free and fair trade and has negotiated free trade agreements in the past as well. Hopefully when we form government in the near future with the support of many Canadians, we will continue to do so.

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10:40 a.m.

Conservative

Lee Richardson Conservative Calgary Centre, AB

Mr. Speaker, first I want to congratulate the member for Mississauga—Brampton South on his comments today, but more so on his efforts as a critic in the past Parliament who really brought this bill to where it is today. I think it was an example of cooperation. We heard diverse views throughout. We heard witnesses extensively on these matters and came to what I think is a very good bill.

More than that, I think it is the start of an ongoing process. The way we proceeded with this reflects on the future. I would like the member comment on that, if he would, about how this begins a process and how it carries on. As he just stated, we are at a time in the world when we do not want to proceed down the old path of protectionism. It is very important to increase relations with countries around the world, to open up markets for Canadian products and open up opportunities for Canadian business around the world.

I know how knowledgeable the member is on these matters, so I would ask that he comment again on that point, and also on this particular bill and how it is an entry market to open a bigger market in Europe.

Canada-EFTA Free Trade Agreement Implementation ActGovernment Orders

10:40 a.m.

Liberal

Navdeep Bains Liberal Mississauga—Brampton South, ON

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank my colleague again for allowing me the opportunity to share my comments on this. The first question he asks is a very important one, which is what kind of strategy do we deploy to make Canada competitive in this new global environment where there is major restructuring taking place? One of the key and fundamental ways of doing that is to promote free trade. The best way for Canada to do so is through a multilateral position, which I have indicated, through the WTO, and it is very important that we pursue that strategy very aggressively.

In light of that, there also needs to be a parallel strategy to work with some of the key emerging markets. I would sense from my experience that there is no doubt that the potential exists in countries like China, India, Brazil and Russia, and we need to have a strategy not only to push our trade agenda through the multilateral organizations, but also to work with these nations at the same time to make sure that we do not fall behind other countries.

One of the concerns I have is that as a trading nation we are falling behind. We need to be aggressive when it comes to promoting trade, but in a very fair manner and in a manner that recognizes not only the importance of trade but some of the other elements within our system as well.

Also, with respect to EFTA, I mentioned in my speech that EFTA should be a stepping stone toward building a more comprehensive and open strategy with the European Union. That is a very important market, a market that, essentially, we need to be present in, that we need to be more active in. In light of what we have seen in the United States, we now recognize more than ever the importance of diversifying our trade to be able to have a presence in other markets so that when one market takes a downturn we can then take advantage of expanding our trade and services in other markets.

EFTA, in my opinion, is definitely the right step in promoting trade within that geographic region. I would encourage that EFTA go beyond simply a first generation agreement and look at investment and services as well.

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10:45 a.m.

NDP

Peter Julian NDP Burnaby—New Westminster, BC

Mr. Speaker, there is no clearer illustration of just how out of touch Conservatives and Liberals are than that exchange we just had between two members. I like very much the standing committee chair for international trade, but how could they be more out of touch with what is happening across this country? At a time when we are hemorrhaging jobs, when there are hundreds of thousands of lost jobs, the committee chair did not mention that every single witness before the Standing Committee on International Trade who actually came from the shipbuilding industry said that this is going to kill their industry, that they are going to lose thousands of jobs.

Yet with complete complacency, just like they did with softwood lumber, killing that industry, Conservatives and Liberals are combining to say, “We do not care, we are all right, so we are going to just close shipyards right across the country”.

I would like to say to the public watching this morning, particularly shipyard workers in Halifax, Nova Scotia, in Marystown, Newfoundland, in Lévis, Quebec, in the Washington yards in Vancouver, and in Victoria and Nanaimo, B.C., every single witness said this is going to kill our shipbuilding industry.

We have had a lot of lip service paid to fair trade. The reality is what countries are doing now around the world is protecting key industries. The Jones Act in the United States and that country's fair trade policies are one very good example. Americans have built on their shipbuilding industry. Conservatives and Liberals in this House are moving to kill ours.

I would like to ask the hon. member, who I like and respect as a person but quite frankly think he is completely out to lunch when it comes to economic policies, how he reacts to Alfred Komo from Halifax, who said:

It's a shame that the Liberal party of Canada feels that it has to remain a puppet of the Conservative government in supporting another bad free trade deal for Canada.

And he signs his name, “Another—

Canada-EFTA Free Trade Agreement Implementation ActGovernment Orders

10:45 a.m.

Conservative

The Deputy Speaker Conservative Andrew Scheer

Order. I am going to have to cut the hon. member off there to allow a response.

The hon. member for Mississauga—Brampton South.

Canada-EFTA Free Trade Agreement Implementation ActGovernment Orders

10:45 a.m.

Liberal

Navdeep Bains Liberal Mississauga—Brampton South, ON

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the enthusiasm shown by my colleague from the NDP.

People want to see that parties are working together, in the House especially, and recognize that these issues exist. I would like to acknowledge that we have demonstrated in the past, in government and in opposition, that we have sound economic policy that breeds prosperity, creates wealth and helps our productivity. We have illustrated that we work with industry to improve its standing, especially vis-à-vis other countries.

The member makes a very good point that the shipbuilding industry is going to face some major challenges. Irrespective of the EFTA agreement, it is going to face major challenges in general. We in the Liberal Party feel it is very important that we have a national shipbuilding strategy and we have asked the government to create a strategy, not just on paper but by investing the money required to make sure our shipbuilding industry is in a competitive position.

We are also asking the government to make sure it stipulates in the EFTA agreement that any violation of the agreement is monitored, and to make sure of the snap-back provision and the 15-year phase-out to allow our shipbuilding industry to be on a competitive footing vis-à-vis the other countries.

The Liberal Party very much promotes free and fair trade. It understands the sensitivities around the shipbuilding industry, and that is why it has called for a very comprehensive, integrated strategy when it comes to the national shipbuilding community across the country, not only on the east coast but also on the west coast and in parts of Quebec as well. I hope the hon. member recognizes that.

Canada-EFTA Free Trade Agreement Implementation ActGovernment Orders

10:45 a.m.

NDP

Peter Stoffer NDP Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS

Mr. Speaker, with great respect to the member, it was his party, under Mr. Tobin, that initiated the national shipbuilding strategy, and it has been sitting on the Minister of Industry's desk since 2001. He does not have to write a new policy. We already have one.

The problem is that for the five years following, the Liberals let it gather dust. Now the Conservatives are letting it gather dust. The hon. member should know that we in the NDP do not have anything against trading deals with other countries. That is what we should be pursuing.

I am going to ask him this one question, because I know he is a very intelligent individual. When the United States enters into free trade deals, since 1924 it has excluded shipbuilding and marine services from the trade deals because it knows how vital and strategic that industry is to its economy and its country. If the United States does that, and it is our largest trading partner, why does Canada not do it?

Canada-EFTA Free Trade Agreement Implementation ActGovernment Orders

10:50 a.m.

Liberal

Navdeep Bains Liberal Mississauga—Brampton South, ON

Mr. Speaker, again I want to illustrate how important the shipbuilding industry is in Canada, in our opinion.

One of the provisions in this agreement that Liberals feel is very important in addressing some of the concerns that have been raised is the buy Canada procurement. There needs to be a recognition that we understand the importance of this provision, because it will allow our shipbuilding industry to create the ships they need for our domestic consumption and use.

Also, it is very important for people to recognize that there is a 15-year phase-out period that would enable this industry to transition, but not in isolation. It has to be done with a comprehensive national shipbuilding strategy. That is something Liberals have been pushing on a daily basis in committee, through press releases and critics, in public and in debates to make sure the government comes up with a national strategy with regard to shipbuilding.

In light of that, I think the three components, that is, a national shipbuilding strategy, the phase-out and the buy Canada procurement, would help the shipbuilding industry, but make no mistake, the industry is going through some very difficult and challenging times. We recognize that and will play a role. In my opinion, whenever the next election occurs, and I do not know that, with the support of Canadians I am confident that when Liberals form the next government, we will work very hard with the shipbuilding industry to have a national--

Canada-EFTA Free Trade Agreement Implementation ActGovernment Orders

10:50 a.m.

Conservative

The Deputy Speaker Conservative Andrew Scheer

Resuming debate, the hon. member for Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel.

Canada-EFTA Free Trade Agreement Implementation ActGovernment Orders

10:50 a.m.

Bloc

Mario Laframboise Bloc Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to speak on behalf of the Bloc Québécois about Bill C-2, the Canada-EFTA Free Trade Agreement Implementation Act. This is a bilateral agreement between Switzerland, Norway, Liechtenstein, Iceland and Canada.

When we are faced with a free trade agreement, we must be able to take a step back and analyze its pros and cons, and that is what the Bloc Québécois does each and every time, in a responsible manner. We have to look at its strengths and weaknesses. The Bloc Québécois' top priority has always been the interests of Quebeckers. We are the only party in this House that rises every day to defend the interests of Quebeckers.

When we look at this agreement in terms of markets and economies that could generate as many imports and exports from Quebec to the EFTA as from them to us, we can see that there are some very significant markets in Quebec.

First of all, there is aluminum, which is our leading export to Iceland.

When it comes to Norway, nickel accounts for 80% of what we export. In Quebec, we have in Ungava one of the biggest nickel mines in the world, belonging to Xstrata. This too is one of our strengths.

Pharmaceuticals should also be included. We all know that Switzerland is a major producer of pharmaceuticals, and thanks to the skills Quebec has developed in this sector and the assistance provided over the years, Quebec provides very fertile ground for this entire industry and a free trade agreement like this could well give its industry a real boost.

Turning to agriculture, there is always a major problem with international agreements because of the supply management issue. Unlike other treaties, though, this one excludes supply management. It is very important for us to be able to defend the interests of Quebec farmers under supply management. In this agreement, the government has understood, for once, the message that the Bloc Québécois gave it: remove the entire supply management question from the treaty.

One very important thorny point remains and that is shipbuilding. There is a feeling in the treaty that this problem was taken into account. That is why the entry tariffs on equipment and ships and any agreements are subject to a 15 year phase-out with countervailing duties that are reduced with a certain moratorium for three years. This was obviously a major concern.

I will be repeating myself now because I had a chance at another stage of the bill to express my views on this matter. I am very surprised, though, that we could not arrive at a consensus in the House—not to put the free trade agreement on the back burner, because I think it is good for Quebec and also Canada—but to deal right away with the real problem in our shipyards. This is a sector that cries out for a real Canadian policy.

I am amazed that the government has not quickly implemented a Canadian shipbuilding policy and that we are not busy in the House discussing one now. If we look at this Canada-EFTA free trade agreement, it soon becomes apparent that the entire shipbuilding industry has been ignored by the Canadian government for far too long in comparison with what has been happening elsewhere, especially in Norway. I know this is a sensitive issue, but the people opposed to the free trade agreement will understand. I am thinking of the New Democratic Party. It is obvious, though, that if shipbuilding were removed from the treaty, the EFTA countries would no longer have much reason to sign it.

We have to be realistic about this situation. But once again, it is important that the Government of Canada use the moratorium and the 15-year period over which tariffs will be reduced to put in place the Canadian marine policy the industry is calling for.

It was very hard to listen earlier as the Minister of International Trade told us yet again that he had provided enough support for this industry sector with the programs that had been put in place. This is staggering, because I do not sense any openness and, in light of how he answered the question I asked him, I sense that the government is going to take the same approach to the forest industry: they have to be careful, there are international laws, there is the WTO.

While the minister is refusing to introduce loan guarantees for the forest industry, claiming that they are subsidies, his own lawyers are arguing at the WTO and in the London court that loan guarantees are not subsidies. He has given the same answer to every question the government has been asked about this, yet no one has been able to quote a section of any law or regulation that says that loan guarantees are subsidies.

There are loan guarantees in the auto sector and many other sectors. EDC provides loan guarantees for all parts of the aerospace industry. That is a fact, yet we have the feeling that the shipbuilding industry is falling victim to the Conservatives' tendency to help only certain industries and to use international laws as an excuse to refuse help for industries not in that select group.

That is a hard reality, because the forest industry impacts Quebec. And if the government does the same thing in the case of shipbuilding, it will affect the Davie yards in Lévis, near Quebec City. Once again, these are repeated attacks against Quebec that we cannot ignore. We agree with Bill C-2 in principle, but there is a problem in this agreement, and it has to do with shipbuilding, because the government has neglected this industry for too long.

Canada-EFTA Free Trade Agreement Implementation ActGovernment Orders

10:55 a.m.

Conservative

The Deputy Speaker Conservative Andrew Scheer

The hon. member for Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel will have 12 minutes remaining after question period.

Young Canada WeekStatements By Members

March 13th, 2009 / 10:55 a.m.

Conservative

Ben Lobb Conservative Huron—Bruce, ON

Mr. Speaker, today marks the 60th year the Goderich Lions Club has hosted the annual Young Canada Week hockey tournament. This tournament first began in 1950 during spring break. Back then it was a one day tournament and 12 teams participated. Now more than 66 teams take part from the AAA division all the way down to the D division.

Over the years local hockey legends Gary Doak, Larry Jeffrey, Boyd Devereaux, Dave McIlwain, Paul Henderson, Dave Farrish and Dave Shaw have participated in the tournament, as well as NHL hockey legends Wayne Gretzky and Darryl Sittler.

I encourage you, Mr. Speaker, members of Parliament and all Canadians to come to Goderich, Ontario to support Young Canada Week and experience Ontario's west coast.

Parks CanadaStatements By Members

11 a.m.

Liberal

Larry Bagnell Liberal Yukon, YT

Mr. Speaker, sadly, Parks Canada has embarked on an initiative that will result in the laying off of employees across the country. In these desperate times when the government is spending billions to create jobs, why would it do the exact opposite and shut down jobs?

While the external relations and visitor experience, ERVE, initiative could be a valuable addition, it should not be at the expense of Parks Canada's basic services. which are already understaffed.

In my riding alone, it looks like local Parks Canada staff will need to cut a million dollars from normal programming and possibly the only way will be by cutting 14 jobs.

In our small northern communities, such as Dawson and Haines Junction, the loss of these families who are integral parts of the communities will be devastating. Even if nine new employees are hired, it does not help the families of the fourteen workers laid off from their positions in their community if they do not qualify for these new jobs.

It will also severely hurt regular operations that have been cut to the bone in recent years and have been sorely understaffed.

I implore the government to put a moratorium on all cuts of regular Parks Canada programming and layoffs, and provide totally new funding to Parks Canada for the ERVE programming.

St. Patrick's DayStatements By Members

11 a.m.

Bloc

Pierre Paquette Bloc Joliette, QC

Mr. Speaker, on March 17, in keeping with tradition, we will celebrate St. Patrick's Day and pay tribute, among other things, to the Irish community's contribution to the development of Quebec. The traditional St. Patrick's Day parade through the streets of Montreal will take place on March 22, rain or shine. Year after year, this parade of green, the colour of Ireland, draws large crowds. The second largest parade in Quebec will be held this Sunday, March 15, for the 31st time, in my riding of Rawdon, which is home to a large Irish community.

During the 19th century, throngs of Irish fled Ireland, which was devastated by famine and disease, to be able to start their lives over. Many of them settled in Montreal and elsewhere in Quebec. They have greatly contributed to the development of our nation with their vitality, courage, joie de vivre and traditions.

This is why I encourage everyone to come out and take part in any of the various activities scheduled across Quebec to mark St. Patrick's Day.

Junior Citizen of the YearStatements By Members

11 a.m.

NDP

Carol Hughes NDP Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON

Mr. Speaker, it is with great pleasure that I inform the House about the achievements of Eden Beaudin, a nine-year-old girl from the community of M'Chigeeng First Nation which is situated on beautiful Manitoulin Island in my riding.

Eden Beaudin is the author, illustrator and producer of The Adventures of Pegasus and I and With All Our Friends. The long hours of hard work resulted in Eden receiving the 2008 Pegasus Literacy Writing Award. On March 3 of this year, she was a recipient of the Ontario Junior Citizen of the Year Award.

Her book is being read by many children and will be enjoyed by many more in the years to come. Her achievement at such a young age has inspired not only the students at Lakeview School in M'Chigeeng, but many others to recognize that they, too, have the potential to make their mark in history. Her parents and schoolmates, her school and her community are extremely proud of Eden.

I would like members to join me in recognizing Eden's great achievement at such a young age.

Marguerite MacDonaldStatements By Members

11 a.m.

Conservative

Shelly Glover Conservative Saint Boniface, MB

Mr. Speaker, it is with great sadness and pride that I rise today to honour and remember a courageous Métis woman of Cree descent who passed away on Monday night in the veterans wing of Saskatoon's Sherbrooke Community Centre.

Marguerite MacDonald was my grandmother. She was a female veteran of the second world war. She was no ordinary woman. Her mother died when she was only 12 years old. Her life's struggles were sometimes painful, but she always had a desire to serve her people and her country from a young age.

So strong was this need to protect others that she falsified her date of birth and joined the Canadian armed forces in January 1942 at the tender age of 17 years. She and many other Canadian women just like her chose to serve alongside our brave soldiers during a time of war.

She trained with the Women's Army Corps in Prince Albert before flying to England where she met my grandfather, Sergeant James MacDonald of the South Saskatchewan Regiment.

In the name of my grandmother's memory, I thank our Canadian heroes of the armed forces, our veterans and their families. Their sacrifices will never be forgotten.