Debates of Oct. 26th, 2010

Safeguarding Canadians' Personal Information Act

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Lots.

[Jim Maloway, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

The minister says they have done lots, Mr. Speaker. I would like to know how much money is being brought in on a year over year basis from government online programs. What is the government's vision for the future?

It is fine for the government to address these matters piecemeal, with a bill on spam and a bill making changes to PIPEDA, but what is its vision on e-commerce, government online, and broadband issues? Governments like those in Australia and England have a vision for these areas.

[Joe Volpe, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I find myself ill-equipped to defend the Conservative government. There was a time when I would defend the Government of Canada because it was a Liberal government that had a vision on governance and on providing a future for Canadians. It did not matter what part of the country they were in. For my colleague's information, he may wish to ask one of the government members sitting here listening to the debate.

He will know that one of the first things that the Conservative government did when it came to power was to put over to one side, first, the initiatives of its predecessor in delivering government services online, and second, all the initiatives designed to provide greater service to Canadians at a reduced cost. For example, all the initiatives associated with Service Canada were put on hold, even though the system had been up and running for a year, because the Conservatives needed to see whether there was efficiency in service.

In addition, the Conservatives cut back on all kinds of services associated with immigration. They needed to bring the number of applicants down, and the best way to do that was to reduce the services provided in posts abroad, so that fewer applications would be received. When fewer applications are received, less revenue is being generated.

As for the revenues the Conservative government has generated from an e-commerce perspective, or what it has done to develop e-governance and government online, I can only say that the short answer is nothing.

If the member does not believe me, he could go to the trouble of reading today's Auditor General's report. The Auditor General looked at a series of departments and said that over the last five years there has been a reduction in efficiencies and direction. A reduction was seen in the parameters that are put in place to manage efficiencies. Her department saw a reduction in accountability and an increase in waste.

If my colleague were to ask if there is a correlation between a having a vision and the wasting and squandering of opportunities, I would say there is. The government opposite has chosen the chihuahua approach to governance: to be a little pipsqueak and do nothing.

[James Moore, Conservative, Minister of Canadian Heritage and Official Languages]

Mr. Speaker, I want to respond to the member from the New Democrat Party. I know that the member for Eglinton—Lawrence was on a roll about chihuahua governments, but I will bring him back to the issue at hand.

The member from the NDP asked what the government was doing about e-commerce. What 1995 language. It demonstrates a gap between what is actually happening in the digital field versus what was happening in the 1990s. I will speak on my own portfolio, as Minister of Canadian Heritage. We are proud of digitizing government content and ensuring that Canadian content is being supported as never before in the new media.

First, we put forward Bill C-32, a good-faith, comprehensive effort to modernize copyright legislation. We are prepared to work with all opposition parties to ensure that this legislation is effective. We have a stand-alone legislative committee, and this bill is going to go forward and help to advance in the digital economy. The first thing that the government has to do is protect people from those who want to harm Canada's creators by stealing from them, ripping them off and legitimizing piracy. We are going to do that.

There are other things that we have done in my department. We have created the Canada media fund. Previously, we had the Canada television fund and the Canada new media fund. To support digital products by Canada's creators, we merged the two to create the Canada media fund. We wanted to ensure that these products are available on the platforms that our media creators choose, not only to support television content but also to support new media, video games, stuff that is streaming online, and stuff that is available for download. We wanted to ensure that Canada's creators have access to more money than ever before to support the creation of content in the digital platform that they choose.

Although we were in a recession, we made a commitment in the last election campaign to maintain or increase funding for the CBC. We have kept our word. The reason is that the CBC has modernized itself. It has become a true pan-Canadian multimedia platform for Canadian content. We have worked with the CBC to ensure that this is the role that it performs. The National Film Board has iPad and iPhone apps that for the first time make it possible to stream Canadian digital content online. Tens of thousands of Canadian films and shorts, children's shows, and documentaries are available online, free, through the web, through iPad apps. We have gone across the board. There is a publications fund to support the digitization of magazines.

No other government in Canadian history has made a more comprehensive and aggressive effort to ensure the digitization of Canadian content and government information.

[Joe Volpe, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I am so happy that we gave the Minister of Canadian Heritage an opportunity to toot everybody else's horn. That is in effect what he did. He said the creativity component in Canada is not resident in the Conservative government, unless it involves hands-off, backing away, not encouraging, and perhaps productively, not stepping on toes.

What he said was that right up until now, the Conservatives have not recognized the creative and commercial value that culture brings to the Canadian marketplace.

I accept his Confiteor. That is okay. But he did not answer the question from my colleague from Elmwood—Transcona. My colleague asked what the government was doing to generate commerce through the new media. He asked this because the Minister of Industry said he was able to measure the level of commerce at $62.7 billion, exactly. Up until he said that, everything took place without the help of the Conservative government. So my colleague from the NDP asked what the government was doing, and whether it was doing it with this sound bite legislation.

The true answer is that the government does not know anything about commerce, does not care about the economy, and has no clue how wealth is created. All we have to do is look at the waste it has created and the debt it has incurred, which has put the country on its knees.

[Carole Freeman, Bloc, Châteauguay—Saint-Constant, QC]

Mr. Speaker, as the Bloc Québécois privacy critic, I am pleased to speak today to the government's Bill C-29, which the Minister of Industry introduced in May.

The Bloc Québécois will vote against Bill C-29 because it is yet another bill that shamelessly interferes in an area under provincial jurisdiction.

The Bloc Québécois vigorously opposed the adoption in 2000 of the Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act, which this Bill C-29 seeks to amend.

Of course, we played an active and responsible role in the study of part 1 of the Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act, and we even proposed some changes in an attempt at damage control.

But the Bloc Québécois has always made it very clear that it definitely does not support the legislation that came into force in January 2001. And it was not alone.

In Quebec, the government, businesses, consumers, the Conseil du patronat, editorial writers, constitutional law experts and many others loudly criticized this renewed assault on Quebec's exclusive areas of jurisdiction.

In May 2007, the Bloc Québécois voiced its opposition to this new intrusion into provincial areas of jurisdiction in its dissenting report appended to the Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics' report on the Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act. Apparently, the recommendations in that report resulted in Bill C-29, which was introduced in the House today.

Both the Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act and this bill, C-29, which would amend the act, are perfect examples of the federal government preying on Quebec's powers yet again.

Basically, the Government of Quebec and the provinces have been arguing since 2000 that, despite the federal government's attempt to justify its bill based on its power to regulate trade and commerce, personal information protection is within the jurisdiction of Quebec and the provinces because of constitutional powers in the areas of property and civil rights.

Constitutional law expert Jacques Frémont of the Université de Montréal was very clear about this when he commented on the original bill that Ottawa was trying to pass. This is what he said:

[This bill] violates both the spirit and the letter of the division of powers, as we must understand it in this country. It denotes an arrogant approach and constitutes an intrusion on the part of the federal government in areas of provincial jurisdiction. Protection of personal privacy is essentially a provincial power. In Quebec, for example, in the area of property and civil rights, it is the Quebec Civil Code that applies, as well as the Canadian and Quebec Charters.

Personal information is very well protected in Quebec. The federal legislation simply overlaps provisions that are already in place. First, section 5 of the Quebec Charter of Rights, adopted in 1975, explicitly states that every person has the right to privacy. Second, chapter 3 of the Civil Code, in particular sections 36 to 40, contains privacy provisions. Third, Quebec's Act respecting the Protection of Personal Information in the Private Sector has also been protecting Quebeckers' personal information since 1993.

In addition, companies under federal jurisdiction that operate in Quebec are already covered by Quebec laws. Quebeckers' privacy rights are fully protected by Quebec law, whether they do business with a company under provincial jurisdiction or a company under federal jurisdiction.

In September 2009, the task force on the future of the Canadian financial services sector published a report that focused on protecting personal information in which it states the following about Quebec's legislation:

On a literal reading, the Quebec law applies to banks as well as other financial institutions. … In the absence of federal legislation on a particular subject matter, validly enacted provincial law may apply to a federal undertaking unless the law prevents the federal undertaking from managing its operations or generally accomplishing its ends.

Moreover, the report stated that Quebec law already applied to interprovincial and international trade as well.

Moreover, the effects of the Quebec law will not be confined to the province. National institutions will face the Act's restriction on the extra-provincial transfer of personal information (about Quebec residents).

The Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act gives the federal government the power to render a Quebec law invalid. That is too much.

The federal act applies to all financial activities unless the Governor in Council orders, if satisfied that a province has adopted similar legislation, that it be exempted in whole or in part. In December 2003, the federal government issued an exclusion order applicable to organizations in Quebec. Unfortunately, not only is the power set out in paragraph 26(2)(b) left to the government’s sole discretion, but it applies only to information within Quebec and held by companies under provincial jurisdiction.

Pursuant to this paragraph, the Governor in Council could therefore, if it wished, order that the laws of Quebec be declared partially or wholly invalid, without even referring the matter to Parliament. This is unacceptable to the Bloc Québécois. It cannot subscribe to any law that goes against the interests of Quebec and it believes that Bill C-29 should not even be discussed in the House: civil law comes under provincial jurisdiction.

Need I remind this House that the concepts of privacy and confidentiality are extremely important in the 21st century, as their application in daily life is becoming especially difficult? Privacy and confidentiality are, in fact, concepts tied to basic rights such as freedom and personal autonomy. Protecting privacy and confidentiality is simply recognizing every individual's right to a private life.

In other words, people have the right to determine when, how and in what way they will communicate information to other people. What I call the right to private life is being threatened today, more than ever, by problems stemming from new information technology, and every privacy protection measure has to take that into account.

The Big Brother George Orwell created in 1948 in his novel 1984 is alive and well among us, and I will not be the last person to talk about that.

Any privacy initiatives, today and in the future, must cover not only the monitoring of information about us, but also protection against unwanted access to our personal information by other people. In fact, that is why our governments have had to create organizations and legislation to protect privacy.

Quebec has been a true pioneer in North America in the area of access to information and protection of privacy, and serves as a reference for all western countries. The Quebec access to information commission was created in 1982, but as early as 1971, with the passage of the Consumer Protection Act, Quebec's lawmakers broke new ground by ensuring all persons the right of access to their credit records.

In 1975, the National Assembly passed the Quebec Charter of Human Rights and Freedoms, recognizing the right of all persons to respect for their privacy and their right to information. This was a historic legislative step that would lay the legal foundations for fundamental principles.

On June 22, 1982, the Quebec National Assembly passed an act respecting access to documents held by public bodies and the protection of personal information, thereby creating the Commission d'accès à l'information du Québec. The National Assembly continued its efforts to protect privacy by adopting the act respecting the protection of personal information in the private sector, which came into force on January 1, 1994.

In Canada during that time, part IV of the Canadian Human Rights Act created the position of Privacy Commissioner in 1977. The commissioner is an officer of Parliament who acts as a privacy ombudsman.

The federal government then passed two pieces of legislation, the Privacy Act in 1983 and the Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act in 2000. The first basically governs the federal public sector and the second, which is of special interest to us here today, has to do more with the private sector in all of Canada, except in provinces that have “substantially similar” provincial legislation.

Alberta, British Columbia and Quebec have their own legislation, since the activities of the private sector generally fall under provincial jurisdiction. However, since the Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act gives the federal government the power to invalidate a Quebec law, there is no way that we can support it.

The two federal acts dedicated to protecting personal information duplicate the Quebec legislation that was passed by the National Assembly to allow individuals to decide for themselves with whom they will share their personal information, as well as for what purposes and under what circumstances. In fact, we must always remember that what constitutes an invasion of privacy for one person, is not necessarily an invasion for another. We all know it is very difficult to ensure that our privacy is respected these days.

At the dawn of the 21st century, the globalization of information and transformation of means of communication have taken great leaps forward, thanks to recent technological advances. However, all these advances present just as many threats to human rights, in particular our right to privacy, and our right to control the distribution and use of our personal information.

Governments and corporations have an insatiable thirst for our personal information. The current Conservative government even believes that collecting a huge quantity of personal information will solve issues of national security and public safety. Under the pretext of implementing new anti-terrorist initiatives, it runs roughshod over the issue of privacy.

Need I emphasize that the private sector's appetite for information is just as great?

It wants to know our names, addresses, purchases, interests and preferences in order to classify, analyze, record and use them in marketing studies, marketing approaches, and to come up with marketable goods. The private sector's lust for our personal information is even more disturbing given that most companies that specialize in collecting this information do not adequately protect it. This information becomes vulnerable to hacking and identity theft.

Bill C-29 that we are examining today concerns the Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act, which establishes the rules governing the collection, use and disclosure of personal information in the private sector, but only in the course of commercial activity

As I mentioned at the start of my speech, the Bloc Québécois will not support this bill, which essentially entails new intrusions into an area of Quebec's jurisdiction. The Bloc Québécois has always clearly indicated that it does not support the federal law, which has been in effect since January 2001. Remaining true to itself and to the interests of Quebeckers, the Bloc will maintain this position.

[Bill Siksay, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I know my colleague has difficulty with this legislation and has made a very strong case for its intrusion into the jurisdiction of Quebec.

I have a couple of questions for her about how the Quebec legislation deals with some of the issues that are dealt with in Bill C-29, particularly the situation around a material breech. When a material breech of personal information has occurred, what sorts of notification requirements does the legislation in Quebec require?

This is one of the areas where this bill that is before the House today is seen as failing by a number of newspaper commentators and by people who follow the questions of protection of personal information in Canada. The question of what corporations are required to do when personal information has been breeched is an important one and maybe she could tell us what the legislation in Quebec requires in those kinds of instances.

[Carole Freeman, Bloc, Châteauguay—Saint-Constant, QC]

Mr. Speaker, in Quebec, we have laws that cover all the provincial jurisdictions. Anything to do with personal information—names, addresses, etc.—is covered by the laws that I mentioned in my speech.

Currently, this jurisdiction is a civil matter and is protected by the Civil Code. The very fact that we are discussing Bill C-29 in the House is inappropriate. This bill encroaches on provincial jurisdictions, and I am shocked that the provinces, like Ontario for example, are not reacting more and are allowing inappropriate laws that intrude into their jurisdictions to be imposed on them like this. I am completely shocked to see that.

However, I am reassured that two other provinces, Alberta and British Columbia, have also implemented legislation similar to what is done federally. To date, when a provincial law exists, the federal government has let the provincial law take precedence, which is why Bill C-29 would not currently be applicable in Quebec, Alberta or British Columbia. Provincial laws govern this data in the private sector.

I would like to thank my colleague for this question, which allowed me to clarify this.

[Bill Siksay, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I will try again with another angle because I suspect there are things that we can learn from the experience of Quebec when it comes to passing legislation in this area and administering that legislation.

I know the member is not supporting Bill C-29 and that she sees it as an intrusion into the jurisdiction of Quebec, but the bill exempts business contact information from the provisions of PIPEDA, which means that any information an organization or business collects, uses or discloses solely for the purposes of communicating or facilitating communication with the individual in relation to their employment, business or profession is exempt.

I am just wondering if there is a similar exemption for business contact information in the Quebec legislation, which is now being contemplated in the bill that we have before us today here in the House.

[Carole Freeman, Bloc, Châteauguay—Saint-Constant, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I have already answered that question. We have similar legislation that covers these exemptions and this information. In any case, the legislation we have in Quebec is valid and is part of our jurisdiction. We provide precisely those protections. In many western countries, Quebec has always been regarded as a leader, an innovator and a model when it comes to its legislation.

This legislation truly comes under provincial jurisdiction. It is ours. It comes under civil law. In Quebec, we have all the bases covered when it comes to personal information.

The House resumed from October 21 consideration of the motion.

Opposition Motion--Federal Spending Power

[The Deputy Speaker, Conservative, Andrew Scheer]

It being 5:30 p.m., pursuant to an order made on Thursday, October 21, the House will now proceed to the taking of the deferred recorded division on the motion of the hon. member for Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher relating to the business of supply.

Call in the members.

(The House divided on the motion, which was negatived on the following division:)

Vote #103

Business of Supply

[The Speaker, Liberal, Peter Milliken]

I declare the motion lost.

The House resumed consideration of the motion that Bill C-46, An Act to implement the Free Trade Agreement between Canada and the Republic of Panama, the Agreement on the Environment between Canada and the Republic of Panama and the Agreement on Labour Cooperation between Canada and the Republic of Panama, be read the second time and referred to a committee, and of the motion that this question be now put.

Canada-Panama Free Trade Act

[The Speaker, Liberal, Peter Milliken]

The House will now proceed to the taking of the deferred recorded division on the previous question at the second reading stage of Bill C-46.

(The House divided on the motion, which was agreed to on the following division:)

Vote #104

[The Speaker, Liberal, Peter Milliken]

I declare the motion carried.

The next question is on the main motion. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

[Gordon O'Connor, Conservative, Carleton—Mississippi Mills, ON]

Mr. Speaker, if you were to seek it, I believe you would find unanimous consent to apply the vote from the previous motion to the current motion, with the Conservative voting yes.

[The Speaker, Liberal, Peter Milliken]

Is there unanimous consent to proceed in this way?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

The Liberals will be voting yes.

[Claude DeBellefeuille, Bloc, Beauharnois—Salaberry, QC]

The members of the Bloc Québécois will be voting no.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

The members of the NDP will be voting no.

[Helena Guergis, Independent, Simcoe—Grey, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I will vote yes.