House of Commons Hansard #13 of the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was crime.

Topics

Standing OrdersRoutine Proceedings

12:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Speaker Liberal Peter Milliken

Will those members who object to the motion please rise in their places.

Fewer than 25 members having risen, I declare the motion adopted.

(Motion agreed to)

Animal WelfarePetitionsRoutine Proceedings

12:05 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Lemieux Conservative Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON

Mr. Speaker, I have a petition from people across my riding that acknowledges that animals can feel pain and can suffer. They ask the House of Commons to prevent animal cruelty and reduce animal suffering, and specifically they ask the Government of Canada to support a universal declaration on animal welfare.

Canada Post CorporationPetitionsRoutine Proceedings

12:05 p.m.

Liberal

Jean-Claude D'Amours Liberal Madawaska—Restigouche, NB

Mr. Speaker, I would like to present a petition signed by more than 250 people from Sainte-Anne-de-Madawaska, a town in my riding, who want to save their post office. The petitioners mention that the Liberal government imposed a moratorium in 1994 on rural post office closures.

The people of Sainte-Anne-de-Madawaska are afraid of losing this asset, which is important to the future of a small community. This small town needs infrastructure and needs its post office, and the petitioners are calling on the federal government to maintain the moratorium on post office closures.

The people are very nervous, because they found out that the government had decided to close some post offices on short notice.

The people and the Liberal Party are asking that the moratorium be maintained so that people continue to be served by our rural post offices.

Sockeye FisheryPetitionsRoutine Proceedings

12:05 p.m.

NDP

Jean Crowder NDP Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC

Madam Speaker, I present a petition that calls upon the government to establish an independent judicial inquiry under the federal Inquiries Act to fully explore all the facts and consult with scientists and stakeholders to determine what went wrong with this year's sockeye run and present a public report with binding solutions within six months.

A process is in place in British Columbia about the missing Fraser River sockeye. However, by the time that report comes out, there will be another full season of Fraser River sockeye.

We encourage the government to respect this petition and have the report presented within six months.

BullyingPetitionsRoutine Proceedings

12:05 p.m.

Conservative

Mike Allen Conservative Tobique—Mactaquac, NB

Madam Speaker, I have a petition to present today signed by 478 students from Leo Hayes High School and surrounding areas.

The petitioners draw the attention of the House to the serious problem of bullying in Canada. They talk about communication methods, including the Internet, email and cellphones, which allow bullying to happen on a seven day, 24 hour basis.

They call upon Parliament to introduce legislation to target the problem of bullying. It is recognized that under the Criminal Code, it is a crime to communicate repeatedly with someone to cause them fear for themselves or defamatory type of libel. They ask the government to consider other areas where this is a problem. It has a huge impact on our children today and their ability to learn and contribute productively to our economy.

Air Passengers' Bill of RightsPetitionsRoutine Proceedings

12:05 p.m.

NDP

Jim Maloway NDP Elmwood—Transcona, MB

Madam Speaker, I have two petitions to present today.

The first petition deals with Bill C-310. Dozens of Canadians call upon Parliament to adopt Canada's first air passengers' bill of rights. The bill would compensate air passengers with all Canadian carriers, including charters, anywhere they fly. The bill would provide compensation for overbooked flights, cancelled flights and long tarmac delays. It addresses issues such as late and misplaced bags. It would require all-inclusive pricing by airlines in all advertising.

Legislation has been in effect for five years in Europe. Why should an Air Canada passenger receive better treatment in Europe than in Canada? Airlines would have to inform passengers of flight changes, either delays or cancellations. The new rules would be posted at the airport and airlines would have to inform passengers of their rights and the process to file for compensation. If the airlines followed the rules, it would cost them nothing.

The petitioners call upon the government to support Bill C-310, Canada's first air passengers' bill of rights.

Earthquake in ChilePetitionsRoutine Proceedings

12:10 p.m.

NDP

Jim Maloway NDP Elmwood—Transcona, MB

Madam Speaker, the second petition is signed by Canadians who call upon the government to match funds personally donated by the citizens of Canada for the victims of the 8.8 magnitude earthquake, which occurred on February 27 in southern Chile.

The community has mobilized and has held fundraising events. One such event was held on Saturday, March 6 in Winnipeg where $10,000 was raised. A follow-up fundraiser will be held on Saturday, March 20 at the University of Manitoba. One thousand tickets have been sold for this fundraiser.

When will the Prime Minister give the same treatment to the victims of the earthquake in Chile as he did for the victims of the earthquake in Haiti and match funds personally donated by Canadians?

Animal WelfarePetitionsRoutine Proceedings

12:10 p.m.

Conservative

Daniel Petit Conservative Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC

Madam Speaker, I would like to present a 24-page petition signed by many people from Ontario who are calling on the government to support a universal declaration on animal welfare.

Aboriginal Healing FoundationPetitionsRoutine Proceedings

12:10 p.m.

NDP

Wayne Marston NDP Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON

Madam Speaker, I would like to table a petition signed by people from Yukon, British Columbia, Ontario and Quebec.

The petitioners call upon the Government of Canada to extend the funding for the healing programs under the Aboriginal Healing Foundation. It is very clear to people across the country of the importance the Aboriginal Healing Foundation has made in the lives of the residential school survivors. They ask the government to continue this good work.

Assisted SuicidePetitionsRoutine Proceedings

12:10 p.m.

Conservative

Mark Warawa Conservative Langley, BC

Madam Speaker, I have two petitions to present from my riding of beautiful Langley.

The first petition deals with those who counsel people to commit suicide. The petitioners say that people who experience depression and mental illness need to be protected by the law. They say that predators are both encouraging and counselling suicide without penalty through the Internet.

They call upon the House of Commons to enable prosecution of those who encourage or counsel someone to commit suicide.

Human TraffickingPetitionsRoutine Proceedings

March 19th, 2010 / 12:10 p.m.

Conservative

Mark Warawa Conservative Langley, BC

Madam Speaker, my other petition deals with human trafficking.

The petitioners say that the trafficking of women and children for the purpose of sexual exploitation should be condemned. They say that it is the duty of Parliament to protect the most vulnerable members of society from harm, those from being victims of human trafficking.

They request Parliament to amend the Criminal Code to include a minimum punishment of imprisonment for the term of five years for offences involving trafficking of persons under the age of 18.

Aboriginal Healing FoundationPetitionsRoutine Proceedings

12:10 p.m.

NDP

Olivia Chow NDP Trinity—Spadina, ON

Madam Speaker, I present petitions calling upon the Government of Canada to extend the funding for healing programs under the Aboriginal Healing Foundation.

An organization called the Toronto Council Fire Native Cultural Centre does extensive work to help aboriginal people. We know residential schools caused extensive physical and mental trauma to the survivors, which has passed on to future generations.

The Aboriginal Healing Foundation is aimed at encouraging and supporting aboriginal people in building and reinforcing sustainable healing processes that address the legacy of physical and sexual abuse in the residential school system, including intergenerational impacts. The funding is finished on March 31 of this year.

The petitioners therefore call upon the Government of Canada to leave a true legacy of action to residential school survivors and support the process of healing through an extension of funding for this foundation.

Questions on the Order PaperRoutine Proceedings

12:15 p.m.

Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre Saskatchewan

Conservative

Tom Lukiwski ConservativeParliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons

Madam Speaker, I ask that all questions be allowed to stand.

Questions on the Order PaperRoutine Proceedings

12:15 p.m.

NDP

The Acting Speaker NDP Denise Savoie

Is that agreed?

Questions on the Order PaperRoutine Proceedings

12:15 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

The House resumed from March 16 consideration of the motion that Bill C-4, An Act to amend the Youth Criminal Justice Act and to make consequential and related amendments to other Acts, be read the second time and referred to a committee.

Sébastien's Law (Protecting the Public from Violent Young Offenders)Government Orders

12:15 p.m.

Bloc

Claude DeBellefeuille Bloc Beauharnois—Salaberry, QC

Madam Speaker, I am pleased to rise today on behalf of the Bloc Québécois to speak to Bill C-4.

This bill amends the Youth Criminal Justice Act and makes consequential and related amendments to other acts. It also amends the sentencing and general principles of the Youth Criminal Justice Act.

I would like to begin by saying that the Bloc Québécois would like to do a thorough, professional job of studying this bill in committee. The Bloc will therefore support an agreement in principle to study the bill and hear all witnesses to improve it.

Although the bill is not as excessive as we were led to believe it would be in January, it still contains quite a few irritants, including an ideological change in the act, which is a fairly dramatic change.

Like many experts, we condemn this philosophical change that makes public protection the main benchmark, at the expense of prevention.

The bill adds new criteria to consider in sentencing young offenders. For example, the sentence should have a deterrent effect. This means that public perception, rather than the offence itself, would condition how a young offender is punished. In short, the government is asking judges to make examples of people.

The government is amending a law that works well. What is more, many experts condemn this amendment, because the law had already been toughened. Still, because of the Bloc's efforts, the bill we have before us is much more moderate than what we are used to seeing from the Conservatives. We have to say that our work to raise awareness and fight against an even tougher bill paid off; the government listened.

The government admits that it misled us when it said there were no young offenders in adult prisons. That is an important admission. I feel it is worth mentioning, because the member for Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles spent last summer going around saying that there were no offenders under 18 in the prisons in Quebec and Canada.

It is worthwhile going over some figures. I do not think that the member for Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles dispute the source of these figures. It is the Correctional Service of Canada.

I do not especially like quoting statistics in my remarks, but I will do so this time because I want to correct the figures cited by the member for Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, among others. I hope that after hearing these statistics, the member will offer an apology for reporting incorrect figures.

In all, 10 offenders under the age of 18 have been placed in a federal penitentiary since January 1, 2004. They were all 17 at the time. Here is the number of young people placed by year, that is from January to December 31—2004, 4; 2005, 1; 2006, 3; 2007, 1; 2008, none; 2009, 1.

I have some more statistics to help the member for Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles clearly understand the situation. According to a reliable source, the public security department in Quebec, in all a total of 39 offenders under 18 have been put in prison in Quebec since April 1, 2003. Here are the figures by fiscal year, that is, from April 1 to March 31: 12 in 2003-04; 10 in 2004-05, 3 in 2005-06; 9 in 2006-07; 5 in 2007-08; and none in 2008-09.

The statistics are based on the age at the time of admission. We must also realize that a single individual can be admitted more than once a year. Now that this has been clarified, we can hope that the member for Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles will get the facts straight.

The Bloc Québécois as well shares many of the concerns raised by many professional stakeholders in Quebec on the repercussions of this bill. Accordingly, the Bloc will analyze it in depth, as is its custom, when it is being studied in committee. We want to hear all those involved in order to improve whatever may be improved. The Bloc wants to get to the bottom of things and will certainly not tolerate rushing through a matter of such importance. If it is passed, the bill will change the way young people are dealt with. We must therefore take the time needed to invite as many experts to speak to the matter so as to properly debate and examine it.

I would also like to speak to the Bloc's philosophy on justice. It firmly believes that the most effective approach is still prevention. We must go after the causes of crime, delinquency and violence rather than wait for problems to occur and try to fix them after the fact. The wisest and certainly the most profitable approach, in both social and financial terms, consists in working at problems in order to avoid youth crime and incarceration. It could not be clearer. We must fight poverty, inequality and exclusion, all fertile ground for frustrations and the escape valves that violence and crime constitute.

Justice for youth is no different in this regard. Young people should benefit from a healthy environment, they should not be living in extreme poverty, they should have access to affordable education and so on. In all these areas, the Quebec nation has made good choices, which sets it apart. Education costs, for example, are among the lowest in North America. Our network of daycare centres is a model in the field, and so on.

Obviously, the Bloc Québécois is aware that young people commit crimes, for which they should be held to account, including in the courts. The government has a duty to act and to use all the tools available to it to ensure that Quebeckers and Canadians are able to live in peace and safety. But the measures brought forward have got to have a real positive impact on crime, they have got to be more than rhetoric, or fear-mongering. They have got to be more than just an imitation of the American model, which, it should be noted, has completely failed to reduce crime. The American model has produced very weak results and is now on the brink of complete breakdown. Some states are questioning that model because it has failed to reduce youth crime.

A few statistics show that one quarter of prisoners on the planet, over 7 million people, are in prison or on parole. The United States is starting to move away from that model, the “law and order” model. In July 2009, the Vera Institute of Justice determined that at least 22 American states are preparing to depart from tough-on-crime policies and the present system is at the point of human and financial breakdown.

On the other hand, the Quebec model, based on rehabilitation and reintegration, produces real results, results that can be measured using statistics showing the decline in crime.

So we would say that what Canada wants is to copy a completely outdated model instead of drawing on the Quebec model, which is working very well.

A moment ago I listened carefully to the speech by my NDP colleague, the member for Windsor—Tecumseh. He said that the government should draw on the Quebec model which has produced good results because the people of Quebec, with their various taxes, have created a health system, a social safety net, that means they can take action to prevent crime and poverty. One thing it means is that young people can be given help and support. Quebec is the province that in 2006 succeeded in reducing its crime rate by 4%, unlike the rest of Canada, where the crime rate rose.

And so I invite the government members to investigate the Quebec model, to look at its successes and its results, rather than trying to copy a completely outdated model that, on the contrary, is of such dubious worth that some American states are now questioning it and are looking for a different model.

Quebec has a good system because we have experts who provide us with sound advice and who have worked, year in and year out, to build a model that works well. These experts are telling us that the Government of Canada is completely off track. The Association des centres jeunesse du Québec, a Quebec organization that provides services to young offenders and troubled youth, and the provincial directors also believe in the rehabilitation and reintegration of young offenders, which have been successful in Quebec. Numerous experts from other countries come to Quebec to observe, learn about and watch our system, so they can then emulate it. I do not say it often enough, but I am saying it now: our results are very telling and very inspiring.

The Association des centres jeunesse du Québec says that it, too, cares about the victims, but that the government is really on the wrong track when it states that protection of society will be improved by implementing more coercive measures because the current legislation deals with these situations and ensures the protection of society. As we saw in the statistics that I quoted earlier, there are youth under the age of 18 in prison, but such a sentence is rarely handed out by judges. They do so if the crime was very serious. It is rare that they decide that a youth should be in prison and should serve the entire sentence.

The bill refers to Sébastien's situation, which illustrates the reach of the current legislation. The young offender concerned was handed an adult sentence upon the recommendation of the provincial director of the Quebec court, youth division. The youth who murdered Sébastien is currently serving his sentence in an adult prison. This example perfectly illustrates that the current law contains a legislative tool that is used in Quebec when this type of circumstance with a youth arises.

Clearly, the Association des centres jeunesse du Québec will want to testify before the committee to share its 30 years of expertise and explain the very serious repercussions this bill would have if it were passed as is.

I would like to give some background on this bill. The Youth Criminal Justice Act, which replaced the Young Offenders Act, received royal assent in February 2002 and officially took effect on April 1, 2003.

The Youth Criminal Justice Act was quite imperfect and was challenged by the Government of Quebec. But in spite of that, in spite of history, the government is still pushing ahead with Bill C-4. We know that the National Assembly of Quebec will also be opposed to this bill as it currently stands.

For years, Quebec's justice minister has been calling on the federal government to exempt Quebec and allow it to implement its own youth intervention model.

The Government of Quebec has shown its opposition to the federal government for a dozen years now. The strong consensus in Quebec is that rehabilitation and prevention are the answer and that Quebec must develop ways of preventing young people from committing acts of physical or sexual violence or serious crimes. Quebec is working hard to put such measures in place. This is the system that Quebeckers have developed to prevent these crimes as much as possible.

I said earlier that I would give some statistics about the decrease in crime. Crime dominates the media: the trials of violent offenders and notorious fraud artists get extensive media coverage. The public often forms an opinion from sensational stories in the papers or on radio or television. We sometimes get the wrong impression and think that crime is on the rise, but that is not entirely true.

I think we can count on Statistics Canada to provide Canadian statistics. I am not accusing Statistics Canada of partisanship, because its statistics are rather clear.

Youth courts are seeing fewer and fewer cases. In 2005-06, 56,271 cases were heard, a decrease of 2% from the previous year. While it is true that the youth crime rate increased 3% in 2006, I must point out that that was the first increase since 2003. We cannot conclude that there is a strong upward trend. However, in 2006 in Quebec—as I mentioned earlier—the crime rate dropped by 4%. All the provinces saw increases in the youth crime rate, except Quebec, which saw a decrease in its crime rate thanks to its focus on rehabilitation and reintegration.

I do not think that is a coincidence. It proves that our model is inspiring and that it should inspire the current Conservative government. Instead of putting up a smokescreen, the government should be able to look at the big picture and recognize that there is a model that is working in Canada and that they can use. As my NDP colleague said so well, why focus on outdated measures, on intervention methods that do not work with young people and that are modelled after the United States, when here, the Quebec nation has a proven, effective system that is intelligent and respectful?

The Association des centres jeunesse du Québec and some specialized lawyers say that the current legislation did not need to be changed. They urge Parliament to be cautious. We are not talking about a few changes to sections of the act here. These are fundamental changes to the ideology and philosophy behind the legislation. This could very negatively impact young people in Quebec and Canada.

Sébastien's Law (Protecting the Public from Violent Young Offenders)Government Orders

12:35 p.m.

Conservative

Harold Albrecht Conservative Kitchener—Conestoga, ON

Madam Speaker, I am happy we are finally having this discussion because many of my constituents are concerned about the current shortcomings in the Youth Criminal Justice Act . I have met with a number of parents on this issue, both parents of victims and parents of children who are in trouble with the law, and their theme is consistent. They all said that we need earlier action, earlier intervention.

Does the member believe that earlier intervention and meaningful deterrence could have a very positive effect on our long-term rehabilitation efforts? Does she agree that it is easier to rehabilitate a 16-year-old than a 56-year-old?

Sébastien's Law (Protecting the Public from Violent Young Offenders)Government Orders

12:35 p.m.

Bloc

Claude DeBellefeuille Bloc Beauharnois—Salaberry, QC

Madam Speaker, I am comfortable answering that question because I am a mother of three teenagers. Deterrence does not work for young people. Anyone who properly understands the development of an adolescent knows that deterrence is not as effective on them as it is on adults. I say that as a mother and a member of Parliament, but experts agree. Lawyers and the Association des centres jeunesses du Québec agree. We do not believe that deterrence will make a difference and stop young people from committing crime. We think there needs to be investment in prevention and in our social safety net. We need to make sure our young people do not commit crime. In my opinion, deterrence is not an important criterion and will not reduce the crime rate in young people.

Sébastien's Law (Protecting the Public from Violent Young Offenders)Government Orders

12:35 p.m.

NDP

Jim Maloway NDP Elmwood—Transcona, MB

Madam Speaker, I was impressed with the member's comments about not following the United States' model. We certainly know enough about its model to know that it is not working so well after a number of years.

However, I am intrigued by her comments about the Quebec model and how it works. She mentioned that there are other countries sending representatives to Quebec to study its model. Could she tell us what the specific details are that make the Quebec model different from others in Canada and around the world? Have any countries actually implemented any of the ideas that they have attained as a result of their consultations and study with Quebec?

Sébastien's Law (Protecting the Public from Violent Young Offenders)Government Orders

12:35 p.m.

Bloc

Claude DeBellefeuille Bloc Beauharnois—Salaberry, QC

Madam Speaker, I thank my hon. colleague for his question.

I am a social worker by training and I have done social intervention. Quebec's health care and social services systems allow for very early intervention, which in turn allows us to identify young people who have the potential to develop delinquent behaviour.

A thorough response to my NDP colleague's question would be too long, so I will focus on one point in particular. Restorative justice organizations take charge of young people who commit minor offences from an early age. If a young person commits a crime, non-profit organizations—which exist all over Quebec—immediately provide the individual with the support and assistance needed to realize the seriousness of their actions. The individual must perform community service and take part in individual therapy in order to realize the seriousness of their actions and understand why they were socially unacceptable.

This is like saving these young individuals from the beginning. If at 12 or 13, a young person commits an offence but receives adequate support, realizes that such actions are unacceptable and understands the consequences, their path can be redirected so they do not commit more serious offences in the future.

In Quebec, these community organizations are funded by the Quebec government, the Quebec nation, out of taxpayers' money. Other countries have even followed our example. They do not follow the example of any one particular organization, but rather a social system that offers a safety net, one that offers support and that invests considerably in prevention. Of course, this system is not perfect, but it is effective enough to produce results in terms of lower youth crime rates.

Sébastien's Law (Protecting the Public from Violent Young Offenders)Government Orders

12:40 p.m.

Bloc

Jean-Yves Laforest Bloc Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC

Madam Speaker, first I would like to congratulate my colleague for the excellent speech she delivered to show the Bloc Québécois' position on the bill that was introduced.

She made reference to the Quebec model, which for years has been focusing on rehabilitating young people who commit crime. We have often heard, especially from the Conservatives, that people who are in favour of rehabilitation care very little about the victims and have no compassion for the victims or their families. The Quebec model has proven that rehabilitation reduces crime. Every stakeholder must understand that.

I would like the member for Beauharnois—Salaberry to tell us whether rehabilitation reduces crime. Is having everyone working on reducing crime not the best compassion we could have for the victims and their families? I think it is the best form of compassion.

Sébastien's Law (Protecting the Public from Violent Young Offenders)Government Orders

12:40 p.m.

Bloc

Claude DeBellefeuille Bloc Beauharnois—Salaberry, QC

Madam Speaker, I want to thank my colleague, who was once a teacher for troubled youth. He knows what he is talking about because he has experience with young people.

His question makes me wonder. Recently the member for Compton—Stanstead, from the Bloc Québécois, introduced a bill that, among other things, seeks to amend the Employment Insurance Act to allow victims of crime to take 52 weeks of leave in order to mourn and get help.

It is either hypocrisy or ideology, but either way I am disgusted to see that the Conservatives will vote against the bill introduced by my colleague from Compton—Stanstead that seeks to offer help to victims of crime. The Conservatives then turn around and lecture us about doing nothing to help the victims.

The government suggests that if we do not agree, then we are wrong. I am sorry, but on this subject that is so close to our hearts, I know that Quebec is right. Quebeckers can count on us. We are fighting to defend our model and to convince this government to adopt it.

Sébastien's Law (Protecting the Public from Violent Young Offenders)Government Orders

12:40 p.m.

Conservative

Cathy McLeod Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC

Madam Speaker, I listened with interest and I listened earlier when the Minister of Justice talked about the importance of prevention and rehabilitation and about the protection of society. I also listen to statistics, and whether the crime rate is going up or down, there are times when we have people who are not remediable to either rehabilitation or prevention. We have horrific circumstances, horrific crimes.

Would the member not agree that in those cases we need to have the proper legislation to ensure the protection of society?

Sébastien's Law (Protecting the Public from Violent Young Offenders)Government Orders

12:40 p.m.

NDP

The Acting Speaker NDP Denise Savoie

The hon. member has 55 seconds to respond.