House of Commons Hansard #45 of the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was industry.

Topics

ATLANTIC SHELLFISH INDUSTRYGovernment Orders

7:20 p.m.

Egmont P.E.I.

Conservative

Gail Shea ConservativeMinister of Fisheries and Oceans

Madam Chair, I have a question for the hon. member. While he is up complaining about all the small craft harbours that are not getting fixed in his riding, he should be up also telling the House about all the small craft harbours that are getting fixed in his riding. We spent more on small craft harbours than any government in history. He also could tell his constituents that he voted against the budget, which contained the money for small craft harbours.

The hon. member stands here and says that Fisheries and Oceans takes a decision because it does not give a hoot about what happens in the communities. Yes, we do give a hoot about what happens in the communities and that is why we take these hard decisions. The easier decision would be to just roll over the quota and hope to God the fishery is not fished out because somebody else will be here when it is fished out anyway. But no, because we care about the future, because we care about the future of the fishery and the future of those communities, these hard decisions have to be made today.

Someone talked about Brian Mulroney stepping in 10 years ago and doing something. Ten years ago, the federal funding had not devolved to the provinces in the labour market agreements or the labour market development agreements. We have a very different situation today.

Has the hon. member met with the province to find out more about the LMA or the LMDA, and how it could assist his constituents?

ATLANTIC SHELLFISH INDUSTRYGovernment Orders

7:20 p.m.

Bloc

Raynald Blais Bloc Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC

Madam Chair, I have questions as well about what the governments of Quebec and the other provinces are doing, but as a member of the House of Commons, my main concern is the federal level. I do not have the choice, therefore, of focusing on that.

There is something I find very interesting. The minister just said—we all heard her—that she cares about the problems these people face. I understand and accept that she assumes responsibility, but at the same time, I want to see action.

The people watching us who hear the minister tell them she cares about their situation are waiting for the second part of her sentence. They expect her to say she cares enough about their plight that she will do certain things and speak to certain individuals. These people are fishers, fisher helpers, and plant workers, municipalities, the provinces and Quebec. That is what I would like to hear.

ATLANTIC SHELLFISH INDUSTRYGovernment Orders

7:20 p.m.

Liberal

Lawrence MacAulay Liberal Cardigan, PE

Madam Chair, I was listening to my hon. colleague from Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine. He is on the fisheries committee and has a good understanding of the fishery.

In looking at this situation as we have it today, we have to agree that there was a major mismanagement in the snow crab fishery, which brought about a devastating cut to the quota. I know the minister indicated that she has some concern, but most people would agree that concern does not pay bills. Concern does not help if one is going broke. Concern does not help if one does not have a job.

The minister indicated that it was a provincial responsibility as well. I think my hon. colleague from Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine would agree that it was not the provincial authorities that mismanaged the fishery. It was not the provincial authorities that took 63% of the quota away.

I would like to ask my hon. colleague, does he not feel that it is the responsibility of the Government of Canada to do something for the fishery, the snow crab fishery, for the people who are depending on the jobs to make a living. I feel this is a responsibility for the federal government and I would just ask my hon. colleague if that is the way he feels.

ATLANTIC SHELLFISH INDUSTRYGovernment Orders

7:25 p.m.

Bloc

Raynald Blais Bloc Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC

Madam Chair, I appreciate my colleague’s question. I would tell him it is a question of discipline, dignity and responsibility.

I want to toss a few good words the minister’s way. I think she was very dignified and acted in a disciplined, responsible way on the seal issue when she went to China. I also think the minister acted in a disciplined, responsible way when she succeeded in convincing her cabinet colleagues to inject another $200 million into small craft harbours. I can acknowledge that. I can say it again and again, anywhere and any time. Now, why not make it three for three?

Why is it that when it comes to snow crab, she does not have this same dignity, this same responsibility, this same discipline? That is why I call on her to take some action on this fishery, which would show that she really does care about the problems experienced by these communities, by the fishing boats and the fish plants. All it takes is a little good will and a bit of money. But money is needed everywhere.

They did not hesitate to spend millions and even billions of dollars to help the banking system and they gave billions to the automobile industry. They do not hesitate to help agriculture either. I fail to see, therefore, why they cannot do the same for the fisheries, which are also an industry of the future.

ATLANTIC SHELLFISH INDUSTRYGovernment Orders

7:25 p.m.

NDP

Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB

Madam Chair, the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans said that Brian Mulroney was in power 10 years ago. I would like to point out that it was closer to 20 or 22 years ago

In 1996, the government transferred money to the provinces so that they would be responsible for the workforce, but it also cut the employment insurance program. We cannot forget the cuts the Liberals made while the employment insurance fund was in a surplus situation.

There are workforce issues along with cuts to employment insurance. The money given to the provinces is meant for regular job creation each year and training, but something special has come up. The fishery is in trouble.

The government should show leadership in this file and help the provinces instead of washing its hands of the situation. It should admit that it is partly responsible because of the 63% cut. It should also admit that it needs to protect the fishery as well as support the provinces and communities.

There is a difference between regular programs and special circumstances. I would like to hear my colleague's comments on that.

ATLANTIC SHELLFISH INDUSTRYGovernment Orders

7:25 p.m.

Bloc

Raynald Blais Bloc Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC

Madam Chair, I thank the member for Acadie—Bathurst very much for his question, which raises a very important point. The effort has to come from the whole government, not just the Department of Fisheries and Oceans.

A government effort means improving employment insurance eligibility and operating rules where needed. We have been calling for this for a long time. There are inequities and huge needs in different sectors. We could talk about forestry, but we are talking about fisheries now.

The employment insurance plan could be changed to reflect the needs of the fisheries sector. The other departments should also do something to help the fishery, because our future depends on it.

ATLANTIC SHELLFISH INDUSTRYGovernment Orders

7:30 p.m.

Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge—Mission B.C.

Conservative

Randy Kamp ConservativeParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans

Madam Chair, I know my colleague has some crab fishermen in his riding and just so we understand the whole context, we are talking about the 63% cut this year. Does he know what advice they provided to the decision-makers last year, the year before, or even this year? What was their view of what the cuts should be? Is it not true, in fact, that they were resistant to any cuts in quota all along?

ATLANTIC SHELLFISH INDUSTRYGovernment Orders

7:30 p.m.

Bloc

Raynald Blais Bloc Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC

Madam Chair, I am aware of all that, and I am also aware of the official and unofficial lobbies the minister, cabinet and the government have to contend with. It is a question of responsibility.

I also get requests, but we have to act responsibly and carefully. It is not responsible or careful to come with the catch rates we have had in recent years. If it were, we would not have been hit with a 63% drop this year.

ATLANTIC SHELLFISH INDUSTRYGovernment Orders

7:30 p.m.

NDP

Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB

Mr. Chair, congratulations on your new appointment.

I would like to thank Parliament and all of the political parties for agreeing to have this discussion this evening. It seems that these discussions can sometimes cause friction. We are all here to serve our constituents and our communities, and to think about what we can do for the people of our communities.

I began to take an interest in the fisheries in 1988, when the government reduced crab quotas to 7,000 metric tonnes. At that time, the government said it had no choice, because otherwise we risked losing the industry altogether.

Before I forget, I would like to tell the minister that there is a bit of a contradiction between the Department of Fisheries and Oceans and fishers. Last year, fishers said that quotas must not be reduced because there was enough crab in the ocean. So an agreement was reached between the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans and fishers. The minister agreed not to reduce quotas. That is what I heard. However, she said that if the biomass decreased, she would have no choice but to reduce quotas by twice as much, and fishers would pay the price.

I do not want to give any disinformation, but I hope everyone understands what I am saying.

I hope the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans will listen to the suggestion I am about to make, and this is not the first time I have suggested it. Fishers are the ones who spend time on the water. DFO officials are saying that the biomass has decreased.

We should turn to those with experience. I am not saying the others have no experience, even though it sounds that way. People with experience should be taking samples from the ocean together with the scientists. The scientists should get out of their offices. Some will say that they do not stay in their offices, but the fishers tell us the samples are not being taken properly. The minister knows that because I have already talked to her about this at various meetings. Fishers from the cod fishery and from the crab fishery all agree. They think the scientists are not taking the right approach but the scientists are saying they are doing things properly.

Why not put these people on the same boat to see what is going on in the ocean? That is one of my proposals. I did not come up with that idea; the fishers did.

The minister must know that this was proposed during a meeting last year. The same thing was proposed to the former Minister of Fisheries and Oceans. He was from Newfoundland and he agreed with this idea, but it seems we have been unable to convince the current minister.

There are currently 130 crab fishers in the Atlantic. There are 85 in my riding alone. In my riding, most people finish on Friday. Those who do not finish on Friday have decided to prolong their fishing time.

I may be wrong, but fishers have told me that they have made a catch but not kept it. One fisher with a quota of 18,000 pounds caught 15,000 pounds his first day out, but left 3,000 pounds at sea in order to get his lines and traps. He made those catches during the same weekend. That will end on Friday.

In 1988, when the government made cuts to crab fishing quotas, there were federal programs.

Yes, the minister was correct when she said that this was transferred to the provinces in 1996, but it was done all across Canada.

Why, when Ontario's auto industry was struggling, did I never hear the government say that the province was responsible for the workers, and that it would not get involved? I never heard the federal government, the Conservative government, say that Ontario would have to take care of its own auto industry. I never heard that. So why, now, when this is going on in the Atlantic provinces, are the provinces responsible for employees?

Regardless of our political affiliation, we members of Parliament are the ones who answer the phone and hear people crying. They ask us what they will do come Monday. We are the ones who answer those calls. We are the ones who answer when they tell us that they do not have the required number of hours of employment and are not entitled to employment insurance. What kind of program does the government have?

When I went to see the minister, I asked her what she was going to do for the workers? She told me that she did not look after that and that it was the responsibility of the Minister of Human Resources and Skills Development. I asked the Minister of Human Resources that question. She did not answer. The Minister of Fisheries and Oceans responded.

The New Brunswick labour minister has wanted to meet with the Minister of Human Resources and Skills Development of Canada, a Conservative minister, for one year. She has refused. Finally, it seems that there will be a meeting.

I would please ask the Conservative federal members and the New Brunswick Liberals to stop their political fighting and to look after the people who are destitute and the families who call us to ask what will happen to them.

If, last year, the government told them that they were giving them a break and that they could fish as much as they wanted, and then this year it told them they were going to make cuts of 63%, it must assume its responsibilities. I am not accusing the minister. If the minister wants to make cuts of 63% and says that we have to save the fishery, I agree. But we must look after the people, the fishers, the fish plants, the plant workers and the communities. We cannot just wash our hands of this.

This was not the situation in the Mulroney era alone. When they closed the cod fishery, programs were put in place. After that, we had problems with the lobster fishery, for example. To quickly return to the crab fishery, it is not just the quotas that have been cut. People used to be paid $4 per pound and that has dropped to $1.75 or $2 per pound. Therefore, quotas have been cut, prices have dropped and these people are suffering. It is expensive to operate these industries.

The same thing applies to the lobster industry. Fishers were paid $6 to $7 per pound. Those working on the lobster boats said they could survive at $4. Now $60 million has been allocated to the lobster fishery and $15 million has gone to the fishers. There is a problem with the formula when only half the money has been distributed.

Fishers from Miscou are calling me and telling me they have not made enough money to pay their expenses. When they ask the people at Fisheries and Oceans Canada for a review, they refuse. They have made their decision and that is that. What am I supposed to say to Mr. Ward from Miscou when he tells me he applied under the program created by the department, but he does not qualify? He fished from May until late June, but he does not qualify. He did not make any money because of the costs. About $45 million has gone to the industry, but not to the fishers.

The same is true of shrimp fishers. They are not getting any money. What am I supposed to tell these people?

I do not want to lay blame, but what is the federal government prepared to do? If it wants to protect the resource, that is its responsibility, but it has to make sure it has the right data from scientists and fishers. This has to be cleared up once and for all. Then everyone will be happy. We have to know what the data are. Then we have to figure out what to do about the problem.

What do we do about this problem? We have to work together. The federal and provincial governments have to work together. How can we help all the communities that depend on the fishery? In Ontario, they did not lay blame and say it was the province's problem. They dealt with it. I say we are going to deal with it because there are other crises in the region.

ATLANTIC SHELLFISH INDUSTRYGovernment Orders

7:40 p.m.

Conservative

Rodney Weston Conservative Saint John, NB

Mr. Chair, I listened with great interest to my colleague from New Brunswick. He speaks with great passion any time he stands to speak in this House, and tonight was no different.

I want to ask a question of my colleague. He stood here this evening and talked a lot about who is at fault in this situation, what we should be doing in this situation as a government, and what the minister should be doing in this situation to resolve the issues the industry faces.

My colleague from Acadie—Bathurst talked about the lobster fishery. When he had the opportunity to support a program in this House, he chose not to. He voted against the budget that actually brought forward a program to help the lobster fishery.

This evening we have heard hypothetical situations and we have heard people talk about what they would do had they been the minister of fisheries. We heard the member for Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte say that he would sit and talk to his deputy minister. Great. I am glad to hear he would sit and talk to his deputy minister. However, that is not going to resolve the issue.

I want to ask the member for Acadie—Bathurst this. If he were the minister of fisheries, would he ignore the science? Would he not take into consideration the conservation of the biomass? What would he do with respect to the science, were he the minister of fisheries?

ATLANTIC SHELLFISH INDUSTRYGovernment Orders

7:40 p.m.

NDP

Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB

Madam Chair, to answer my colleague from Saint John, if he was listening, I said I am not blaming anybody. I said that is where we are. If that is where we are, what are we going to do?

If I were the minister, one thing I would do, because that is the question, is that I would take the scientists and put them with the fishermen, get them to the water and find out the real truth; get them to get along and find out what is happening; and get them to agree to the reality of what is happening in the sea. That is what I would do.

The member from Saint John was in the Government of New Brunswick under Bernard Lord, when the Bernard Lord government was asking this member to help them get the same program I am asking for today.

I hope the member is supporting me because he was in the cabinet of the provincial government, and he was asking me to help them. He said that we should not throw all the fault on the province, that they needed the help of their big brother, the federal government. They needed the help of their big brother, because that was who could be able to help.

By the way, the federal government has cut New Brunswick by $270 million per year, a cut of employment insurance. Now they are out bragging they are giving hundreds of millions of dollars, and that should resolve all the problems of New Brunswick.

I am saying to my dear friend, my colleague from Saint John, we need to work together and make sure that the people of—

ATLANTIC SHELLFISH INDUSTRYGovernment Orders

7:45 p.m.

NDP

The Deputy Chair NDP Denise Savoie

Order. Order, please. I would ask all hon. members to address their comments through the chair. The hon. member for Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte.

ATLANTIC SHELLFISH INDUSTRYGovernment Orders

7:45 p.m.

Liberal

Gerry Byrne Liberal Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL

Madam Chair, the fallback position of the government seems to be to question the opposition, as if they were currently the minister of fisheries and oceans.

We are not the minister of fisheries and oceans. The Minister of Fisheries and Oceans office is with the government side. The fallback position betrays something. It betrays the fact that the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans did not act on science. The science was clear. The evidence of the existence of the science was clear.

For the record, I read again what Marc Lanteigne, a DFO crab scientist based in Moncton, said to each and every one of us, “The decline has been quite dramatic over the last few years”.

That shows that DFO science was providing advice to this minister for several years, telling the department and the minister, whether it be the former minister prior to October 2008 or the current minister of today, that the crab stocks in the southern Gulf of Saint Lawrence were in trouble.

If that indeed was the case, it was either that science failed in its responsibility to provide that advice or that the minister failed over the last several years to do what was necessary. There is no fallback position here. The buck stops with the minister. Under the act, the minister has the ultimate final authority.

I would like to know from this member for Acadie—Bathurst whether or not that minister has served the people of Acadie—Bathurst, of the southern Gulf of Saint Lawrence, well.

ATLANTIC SHELLFISH INDUSTRYGovernment Orders

7:45 p.m.

NDP

Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB

Madam Chair, I have a mixed opinion about it because the fishermen do not agree with the tests being taken by the scientists and the scientists do not agree with the fishermen. That is why I said that we should put the two together and send them fishing. We should send somebody agreed to by the industry and not appointed by the government. That is what will be requested.

My colleague from Saint John asked if the member was saying that we should not listen to the scientists. I have to say that is not what happened last year. It was his government that did not agree with the scientists.

Maybe the minister will say that people have asked the government to do the fishery because they believe there are okay. That is the government's defence. However, at the end of the day, if we look at the act, the minister is responsible. That is why I say I have a mixed view about the whole thing.

Fishers in New Brunswick tell me that they think there was a mistake and that the 63% was too high. They finish on Friday, and they made their quota in less than three weeks. If things are so bad, how did they manage to make their quota so fast? They did not scrape the bottom, but they made their quota quickly.

Instead of squabbling amongst ourselves, once everything is done, why not really take the time to provide programs for people, communities, plants and everyone, then conduct a thorough study that will satisfy everyone? If those are the facts, then we will have to live with them. We will accept the facts and adapt. That is all I ask, and I think it is reasonable.

ATLANTIC SHELLFISH INDUSTRYGovernment Orders

7:45 p.m.

Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge—Mission B.C.

Conservative

Randy Kamp ConservativeParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans

Madam Chair, I confess to being a little confused. The member is talking about the federal government being big brother and that it has to do all this. In fact, we did transfer, through a variety of HRSDC programs, $245 million just to the Province of New Brunswick.

On the one hand, big brother has to do its thing but, on the other hand, he is implying that he does not think the science was right and that we should not have made these cuts at all and yet he wants the federal government to sort of bear responsibilities for them. I am confused about this.

Does he or does he not think that there was a very significant decline in the biomass that required this 63% reduction in the TAC?

ATLANTIC SHELLFISH INDUSTRYGovernment Orders

7:50 p.m.

NDP

Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB

Madam Chair, it is simple. I am not a scientist but the scientists said this, the fishermen said that and I said that we should put them together.

When the member talks about the program of $245 million, I do not know where he gets that amount because the Minister of Human Resources and Skills Development told me last week that it was $143 million. Every year $100 million goes to New Brunswick to look after the labour market. It is for the whole of New Brunswick for all issues.

Because of the economic crisis, not the fishery, $43 million were added to it. In April, it was announced that there would be a 63% cut on the crab quota. It is a surplus from that, and that is why we are saying that we now need to look at special cases, like it did with other industries, such as forestry. The forestry sector said that it did not get enough. The government did it in Ontario in the car industry. I did not see members from the Conservative Party getting up to say that the money should not go to Ontario when plants were being closed.

In my riding in New Brunswick, 2,500 people will not have a job starting Monday. What do we do with them? The Conservatives did not say that they gave the car industry in Ontario so much money, the training programs and everything for EI, and now they will not getting anything.

There was a crisis in the car industry. I tip my hat to the Conservatives for doing what needed to be done to help that industry but it cannot stop there. We are in a federation and we need to help each other. We do not help just one province. We help every province that is having trouble.

This is a surplus from what normally what would have happened. Nobody thought that crab quotas would be cut by 63% but it happened and the government has the responsibility to help the community. That is all I am saying.

ATLANTIC SHELLFISH INDUSTRYGovernment Orders

7:50 p.m.

Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge—Mission B.C.

Conservative

Randy Kamp ConservativeParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans

Madam Chair, I am pleased to speak tonight to a sector that is vital to the Canadian economy. I will follow up on some of the points and comments made by the minister.

This sector employs a lot of people and our Conservative government has shown our support time and time again for it. Those people who may watching may not realize the contribution that our seafood industry makes to our economy and our coastal communities. In fact, Canada is the world's sixth largest seafood exporter, with fish and seafood being Canada's largest single food export commodity. The seafood sector contributes $3.9 billion to the Canadian economy through the activities of harvesting, aquaculture and processing industries. Together, these industries employ approximately 80,000 people across the country, including fish harvesters, crew members and plant workers.

The shellfish industry is at the heart of Canada's seafood sector, especially in the coastal communities and regional economies of eastern Canada, the subject of our debate tonight.

Canada's commercial fisheries have evolved since the early 1990s, shifting away from groundfish to the more lucrative shellfish fisheries. Key species, such as lobsters, snow crab and shrimp, have become cornerstones of the commercial fishery driving industry growth for nearly two decades.

To date, shellfish represents over three-quarters of the total value of commercial marine and freshwater catches in Canada. At the same time, shellfish aquaculture production has also grown considerably, increasing four times it value since 1990.

The Atlantic provinces and Quebec define the Canadian shellfish industry. Total shellfish landings from Nova Scotia, Newfoundland and Labrador, New Brunswick, Prince Edward Island and Quebec account for over 90% of the overall landed value of shellfish in the country. In 2008, more than 429,000 tonnes of shellfish worth $1.4 billion were landed in those provinces. Lobster, snow crab and shrimp are the industry's most valuable species, but we cannot overlook other important products. such as scallops, clams, oysters and farmed mussels.

The east coast shellfish industry contributes significantly to the rich variety of harvested and processed seafood products exported worldwide. Atlantic lobster is Canada's most lucrative fishery and provides a high quality, healthy food with high consumer appeal. In 2007, landings were valued at $560 million. In 2008, they climbed to $600 million and exports earned $920 million, or 24% of all Canadian seafood exports.

There are almost 10,000 licensed lobster harvesters employing almost 30,000 Canadians and Canada produces over half of the world's lobster exports, mostly sold to U.S. markets. Hard shell lobster has higher value, often sold as live product, but also has higher storage costs. About one-third of lobster landings are soft shell, the lower value, processed into frozen products and inventories sold throughout the fall and winter months.

The lobster industry competes directly with the Maine lobster industry in the U.S. which can often plug the U.S. market with live lobster. The luxury status accorded to Atlantic lobster as a food item, significantly affected it during the economic downturn during which demand dropped due to consumers cutting back on discretionary spending. Our government recognized that lobster-dependent harvesters were being severely impacted by the economic downturn, which is why we implemented the $15 million short-term transitional measures program to assist them.

It is important to recognize, not only how vital lobster and other shellfish are to Canada's economic prosperity, but also how flexible, resilient and innovative the industry is. For instance, a new dock-to-dock transport system recently made its debut in Halifax which will allow the shipment by a container ship of fresh seafood to European destinations. This could help reduce costs to Canadian lobster exporters.

Snow crab is another important fishery in Canada and it is caught in the Atlantic provinces and in Quebec. It is a high volume, low value-added fishery and has a relatively short season with the majority of catches being landed within the first few weeks. Harvesters take their catch quickly in order to take advantage of early season high catch rates and also to avoid soft shell problems. Most snow crab exports are destined to mid-priced restaurants like buffets and casinos in the U.S. Despite supplying over one-third of the world's crab exports, Canada is considered a price-taker in this market. While it is not the only crab species harvested in Canada, the snow crab is by far the largest, making it the cornerstone of our Atlantic crab industry. In 2008, Canada exported $509 million worth of snow crab to 18 countries, with 67% to the United States, 21% to China and 9% to Japan.

The northern shrimp fishery is found mainly in Newfoundland and Labrador, as well as Quebec and Nova Scotia. The main method for catching shrimp is trawling, which is fuel-intensive and vulnerable to upswings in fuel prices. The European Union is the main market for northern shrimp, particularly the UK and Denmark.

Cold water shrimp prices have declined over the past 10 years because global markets have been saturated with larger warm water aquaculture shrimp and prawns. The financial crisis and economic recession have had predictable effects within the industry. The economic climate has also magnified the long-term structural challenges for businesses that carry high debt loads and have trouble accessing conventional financing.

Total shellfish exports were $2.1 billion in 2009, dropping 8% from their value in 2008. At the same time, 2009 saw large decreases in the market prices for lobster, crab and shrimp, which generally represent half of Canada's fish and seafood exports.

As general consumer spending decreased, the demand in import and export markets also plummeted, especially for high end seafood products. The drop in demand in Canada's major export markets, the United States, Japan and the EU, has been especially problematic for shellfish exports. A strong Canadian dollar has further diminished revenues and the relatively small margins for profit that did exist in some fisheries have been eroded or lost entirely.

Steep increases in the price of oil have placed considerable pressures on the overall costs incurred by fishing fleets and processing plant operations. Fuel costs generally account for 10% of fleet operating costs but could be as high as 19% or 20% for relatively fuel-intensive fleets, such as shrimp harvesters.

Recent domestic economic projections for Canada have been positive. Improved consumer confidence in both the Canadian and American markets is expected to boost the demand for fish and seafood products, however, anxiety over market prices remains. Expectations of a strong Canadian dollar in 2010 continue to put additional pressure on the industry. Forecasts of high crude oil prices throughout 2010 pose a significant potential burden on overall costs of operations. As well, resource stock declines will have direct short-term implications for affected fleets.

The next two to five years will be an important period of transition for Canada's shellfish industry, as the need to increase productivity, become more innovative and strengthen its domestic and export markets reaches a critical level.

DFO is committed to facilitating industry transformation into a self-reliant, high value-added shellfish industry. We recognize that more emphasis in analyzing all the elements of the value chain is required, from harvesting to processing to marketing and distribution of shellfish products. We also must remain vigilant and proactive in terms of our programs and policies with respect to emerging drivers, such as new requirements related to catch certification, food safety and security and market access issues.

For example, new European Union regulations that went into effect in January of this year require imports of seafood from other countries to have catch certificates to verify that the catch is legal and reported. The EU is the second largest market for Canada, importing almost $500 million in fish and seafood products in 2008.

Our Conservative government recognized the importance of the EU market to the Canadian seafood industry, so we have acted decisively. Budget 2010 provided $7.2 million over two years to support a new catch certification office. Through this office, Fisheries and Oceans is issuing certificates to exporters, ensuring that the Canadian fish and seafood industry remains competitive and maintains employment in both the harvesting and fish processing sectors. We expect that consumers and global markets will increasingly demand this kind of evidence, and our government's foresight on this issue puts Canada's seafood industry in a competitive position.

I know that change will not happen overnight. That is why our government remains committed to working with the industry and key stakeholders to improve industry resilience and prosperity so that it can withstand and rebound easily to short-term shocks, including economic, market or resource pressures.

Atlantic Canadians know that it is our Conservative government that will support the long-term development of the seafood and shellfish sectors.

ATLANTIC SHELLFISH INDUSTRYGovernment Orders

8 p.m.

Liberal

Scott Simms Liberal Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL

Madam Chair, my colleague and I have tangled on these issues many times in the past six years and I am sure we will continue to do so.

Earlier the minister brought up a situation. We talk about people making a living from this industry and how they are able to sustain a standard of living within their communities because of all the negative aspects that she mentioned. She mentioned the labour market agreements. Here is the problem: The labour market agreements do not provide EI benefits. They do not provide that extra amount of work, so they do not provide the extra weeks. In seasonal work, that is a problem. That puts that aside.

Earlier in the season, earlier this year and even into last year, a memorandum of understanding was worked out between three particular groups. They included the union, specifically FFAW in Newfoundland and Labrador, producers as well as harvesters and, of course, the provincial government. They all came to the conclusion that there was a glaring absence of a federal presence. I know the government is talking about the provincial jurisdiction over this when it comes to the processing.

However, I would like to remind the parliamentary secretary before he answers that in the mid-1990s, the Liberal government brought forward a program which allowed people to ease out of the industry in the processing sector. Before he uses that as an excuse, I do not think it is much of one.

What is the government's involvement in allowing people to either ease out of the industry or to continue in a period of growth?

ATLANTIC SHELLFISH INDUSTRYGovernment Orders

8 p.m.

Conservative

Randy Kamp Conservative Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge—Mission, BC

Madam Chair, I think my colleague knows that the shellfish sector in many regions has been quite profitable over many years. In fact, it is a cyclical industry and a cyclical resource. Shrimp is not, but crab is, for example, and it tends to go up and down. That is why I think the province is closer to the action. It is certainly in a much better place to help those kinds of problems.

Our government has invested in additional training programs. That is part of the labour market dollars that have come to the provinces. Our preference is for people to work, not to just get a cheque at the end of the year for not working. I am sure the fishers would like that as well, but because it is the kind of industry where there are ups and downs, these programs need to be in place to allow people to retrain into other industries.

We have those. We partner with the provinces in those. I think that for the most part they have been fairly successful.

ATLANTIC SHELLFISH INDUSTRYGovernment Orders

8:05 p.m.

Liberal

Gerry Byrne Liberal Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL

Madam Chair, I want to be clear about something. The ultimate responsibility for the management of the fisheries lies with the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans. It has been said here that the advice we got and which we acted upon last year in the southern gulf said that we should not cut. We acted on that advice.

My son is seven years old. He was riding his bike the other day and he rode it down a hill with his friends. He ran it over a cliff and he bruised his knee. I asked him what he did that for. He said that his friends told him to do it. I told him not to just follow his friends, but to do what is right.

It seems to me there is a disconnect here. The minister is saying that they told her to do it, so she had no choice, that she just did what she was told. The truth is that the minister was told by DFO science for several years previous to this year to make cuts. She did not listen. She skinned her knee and the problem is that she skinned the knee of every crab fisherman in the southern gulf. If there was one responsible action that could have been taken, it would have been to take the necessary cuts when they were prescribed by DFO science, not to wait for it to build up.

There is an illusion here that they will not do what happened to northern cod. They did exactly that, because this is exactly what happened with northern cod. Scientific advice came in to Bernard Valcourt, Tom Siddon, John Crosbie and Ross Reid in 1988, 1989, 1990, 1991 and finally in 1992. They did not take the advice. Finally, John Crosbie had to shut the whole works down.

That is exactly what happened in the southern gulf. Scientific advice was coming in. The ministers just did not do anything about it and that seems to be a shame.

ATLANTIC SHELLFISH INDUSTRYGovernment Orders

8:05 p.m.

Conservative

Randy Kamp Conservative Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge—Mission, BC

Madam Chair, I did not hear a question, but the member has some of his facts wrong.

For one thing, he knows there is no correlation between what happened in the Atlantic cod fishery and a cyclical fishery like snow crab. If he wants to look at the data, he will find there was a time when it was 30,000 tonnes and that was reduced to 20,000 tonnes over the years in response to scientific data.

He knows when the TAC was set last year, it was done in consultation with the industry. Industry was told very clearly that if we set it at a certain level, there was a chance it would face a significant decrease next year. The industry was asked if it was willing to take that risk and it said yes. That is what has happened. This is no surprise to the industry. If anyone wonders where that 63% came from, those are really not the facts.

ATLANTIC SHELLFISH INDUSTRYGovernment Orders

8:05 p.m.

Liberal

Rodger Cuzner Liberal Cape Breton—Canso, NS

Madam Chair, I would not say it is not a surprise to the people who earn their living from the sea. The dismay on the wharf right now in eastern Canada is palpable. If one were to go to the end of the wharf to talk to the fishermen or talk to people in the plants, one would find they are scared to death as to what is going to happen this year.

Let me ask a specific question. I know the minister is well briefed on this topic and I know she was gracious enough to meet with the fishermen when they came to Ottawa to present their case. She knows it well. It is about the area 19 fishermen and the co-management plan they have worked under for the last number of years.

They have taken decreases over the last number of years on their own. They have followed the recommendations of science and have undertaken some very aggressive measures as far as conservation of the resource goes. They are feeling the hurt from undertaking those particular steps. They are not seeing any benefit now because they are sort of lumped into the same pie. They are in a stand-alone area, but they are lumped in.

The government is looking at conducting a spring survey, one that it has undertaken since 2004 and gives very accurate reads on the status of the resource in that particular area. Has the minister made a decision on that? I will ask the parliamentary secretary to respond. I would encourage the minister to give this great consideration. I would ask when we can expect a decision on that spring survey.

ATLANTIC SHELLFISH INDUSTRYGovernment Orders

8:10 p.m.

Conservative

Randy Kamp Conservative Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge—Mission, BC

Madam Chair, my colleague may want to talk directly with the minister on this, but let me start by saying that I do not think it is quite accurate to say they are lumped in with all of the rest, the 63% that crab area 12, for example, is facing.

I would also like to say that those involved in the fishery in area 19 really should be commended for their willingness to be involved in solutions. They have done a lot of good work and I know the minister is grateful for that.

With respect to the spring survey question, that management plan has not been completed. No decision has been made on that yet.

ATLANTIC SHELLFISH INDUSTRYGovernment Orders

8:10 p.m.

Liberal

Rodger Cuzner Liberal Cape Breton—Canso, NS

Madam Chair, I would like to begin by thanking my colleague, our fisheries critic, the member for Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte. This is an important issue, and I know that he has pressed hard to make this debate possible this evening to allow this issue to be brought to the fore.

There was a great deal of excitement in the House today. I know that people back home and most Canadians are sort of glued to the television right now as Montreal has come up on a 4-0 lead right now.

There are a lot of Habs fans back in my riding of Cape Breton—Canso. There are a number of Pittsburgh fans there as well, Sidney Crosby being a Nova Scotia boy, Marc-André Fleury being a former Cape Breton Screaming Eagle, a great major junior hockey team. Unfortunately he has not had a great night. He has had a tough night at the office tonight.

As much interest as there is in the hockey game, I know that people from Tor Bay to Glace Bay and from Margaree Harbour up to Cheticamp will be checking in and watching this debate unfold this evening. There is a great deal of concern and a great deal of anxiety in these communities because the livelihood of so many families is inextricably linked to the fishery.

With what has gone on in the past number of years, they have been very concerned for a number of years. I guess this is the year that the chickens come to roost as far as the situation in the southern gulf is concerned, and certainly not just with crab but also with lobster. There is a great deal of concern.

We have to put a real face on this. We have to look at the lives that this impacts.

I got a call today from someone in Cheticamp. The plant workers in Cheticamp were notified today that things are not looking good up there. They are looking at 80 job layoffs in the next number of days just because the resource is not there. That is starting to hit home now.

If they are not able to get work this year, they are going to look at going somewhere else to try to find employment. That is what they have to do to feed their families. What happens as a result is that should the plant fire up again and get a little more resource to process, the plant will be handcuffed because it will not have the workers. The workers will vacate. The workers will leave the community, and that group of workers will be lost. That is devastating.

It is close to home for me. I am married to a Hopkins. The Hopkins name is known in Cape Breton and in Newfoundland. It is a family-owned fish processing business in Cow Head, Newfoundland. My father-in-law runs the second-generation family business. They have been in the fishery since the 1940s. They have grown up in the fishery.

He said he is more nervous this year. He is frightened this year about the way the prices will impact the season. Certainly last year in the lobster fishery back home, lobster started out at about $4.25 a pound. Down in Southwest Nova right now lobster is running at about $3.25 a pound. That is money right off the top. That is money out of a household that is trying to feed a family and pay the bills.

There are three things I want to talk about in this debate. The government has said this is all about science. There has been good science all along. The signs have been there, but they have been ignored. They have been neglected. That is what is of concern. This is not just about this year. This is about going forward. This is about the long-term survival of the fishing industry. That is what is concerning us.

The lobster and the crab are so inextricably linked. If things are not so good in the crab industry, the fishermen have the lobster and they are able to generate some additional revenue. If the lobster is down a little, some crab share allows them the opportunity to keep the enterprise moving and to pay the bills.

In the lobster industry all the LFAs in the gulf have talked about a 10 point plan. It was an aggressive conservation plan where each of the LFAs were able to look at a number of conservation measures. They were able to take whatever measures would suit them best. It was not a one-size-fits-all. They were able to pick from the number of measures and put them together. Each measure was assigned an amount. If their plans totalled 10 points, they were granted the ability to fish that season.

All indications from the lobster groups was that they wanted to make this mandatory. The direction the officials of DFO was that they wanted to make this mandatory. They wanted the LFAs to all enter in. They had to sign on for a 10 point plan in order to proceed in the upcoming season.

Last year the minister had an opportunity to embark on those conservation measures and she stepped back from that. She made it voluntary and left it up to the individual LFAs.

Some had been ahead of the curve. Some had entered into these measures, thinking that this was coming and it was going to be mandatory. They thought they would get a jump on it. Now they are left holding the bag. They are being penalized now because they have moved already on their own for the right reasons, thinking it would become mandatory. However, it has not and it will not be mandatory this coming year. That was a mistake. It was a total ignorance of the science.

I talked about area 19 and the fishermen. I have talked about the measures they have embarked on in the last number of years. The minister should have been taking lessons from those snow crab fishermen. They have done a spring survey, which has the most accurate results. They have been doing this since 2004. They went far beyond on their softshell protocol, very robust. They have put in additional measures as far as observer coverage in the zone. They have undertaken these measures on their own.

The minister could have been taking a lead from this fisheries group. Every time I talk to DFO officials, they make reference to the group of fishermen in area 19 and that co-management plan. They hold that up as the template. They say that this is how a fishery should be run because the guys are committed. They believe in the sharing of the resource. They have allowed other entrants into their area. They have been very proactive in those measures and they have been proactive with conservation measures as well.

The minister should have been watching this. This is how one goes about one's business. The science has been there over the last number of years and she has ignored it. There could have been gradual reductions over the last number of years, but instead the hammer came down this year. The impact on the markets could have been managed over the last number of years.

The other issue I want to speak about is the management agreement in area 23. It was an agreement that was signed off in 2005. It was very clearcut. My colleague, our fisheries critic, has mentioned it already. This agreement was in place. It was accepted by the fishers in this area and that was cast aside.

A new licence was issued. Tim Rhyno won the lottery, as far as picking up a licence in that area. Meanwhile 650 new entrants into that fishery who expected to become equal partners in that fishery have now been ignored. The fifty-fifty sharing agreement once the tonnage has reached 9,700 tonnes has been ignored. That agreement has been torn up and cast aside

If this debate does nothing else tonight, I hope it puts the government on notice that things are not good in the east coast fishery. There are troubled times ahead.

ATLANTIC SHELLFISH INDUSTRYGovernment Orders

8:20 p.m.

Conservative

Tilly O'Neill-Gordon Conservative Miramichi, NB

Madam Chair, I want to note that our minister has only been in office for two years. With the crisis in the price of lobster last year, I can understand her reasoning for not wanting to hit the boom on small crab as well. Even though she was told about the biomass, she listened to the fishers that time.

Access and allocation decisions are always very controversial, even more so when new entrants are added to a fishery. In 1995 there were 62 licences, regular and temporary, in zones 23 and 24. When the Liberal Party left office in 2006, there were 111 licences in total in these zones. That is an increase of 49, which would have been quite a heavy burden on that zone.

Could the member opposite comment on the merits of the Liberal policy that saw an increase of nearly 80% in these zones over that period of time?