Debates of June 14th, 2010

Multiple Sclerosis

[Rick Casson, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Mr. Chair, I can put a personal touch on this. If I am going to recommend that my daughter takes a treatment of some kind, I want to make damned sure it will not kill her, cripple her or make her worse.

[Disturbance in the gallery]

That is unfortunate.

That is unfortunate because I say that with all sincerity.

I want this research to be done, and I want it done right. When the time comes, I will advise her and help her get that procedure.

There has been a couple of incidents where people have been damaged, but out of how many? This procedure is available in 47 countries, as somebody said earlier, so why is it not available in Canada?

I truly believe, and I say it having this in my family, that research needs to be done and we have to be very cautious, but when it is proven, let us quickly deal with the 50,000, 60,000 or 70,000 people in this country who have MS. But let us not, for one second, give false hope to those that this procedure cannot help. That is where the testing comes in, where the MRI procedure has to come in, and that is why the diagnosis has to be exactly right.

We have to make sure we do not tell people that this will help them when it will not. We have to make sure that those who can be helped will be helped, but we have to continue with the research so those who cannot be cured by this process from Italy, and there are many, still have hope for the future. A large percentage of the people who are affected by MS are not helped by this new process and they need that research for their own well-being.

[The Chair, Conservative, Andrew Scheer]

I will remind our visitors who are here tonight that they are not to interrupt the proceedings in any way so as to interfere with the members' questions, comments or speeches.

Questions and comments, the hon. member for Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing.

[Carol Hughes, NDP, Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON]

Mr. Chair, I want to refer to some testimony that we heard in committee. The question was asked to Dr. Sandy MacDonald, who had treated six patients:

Have there been any complications? And what have you learned from the treatment that you have engaged in so far?

The response was:

There have been no complications to treatment. I will give you a really nice example. A 23-year-old kid can't feel his left arm or left leg. He gets an angioplasty done and he gets feeling back in his leg and his arm. He is living in a house with an elevator because he can't go up and down the stairs. A week later he tells his mom and dad he's moving out of the house and into the apartment with his girlfriend because he doesn't have MS any more. The procedure works. We have to allow patients to have the procedure.

That is what he indicated.

Based on what we have talked about with Steve Garvie, Mrs. Cooney, does the member agree that we need immediate funding, more funding for this research, and that it should be done in conjunction with treatment?

Could the hon. member elaborate a bit on what this would mean for the health care system, given the fact that people are now able to live a more productive life after the procedure, and how much is being saved in the medical field by the fact that they may be coming out of long-term care or assisted living?

[Rick Casson, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Mr. Chair, to get back to the point I made that seemed to draw some laughs from some corners, which I find so very, very unfortunate--and to have the member opposite cheerleading that reinforces my opinion of him--the fact remains that this process will help people. It has helped some people. But it has caused some problems and we do not know all the details on it. It will not be the cure-all for everybody.

If my daughter were in a wheelchair, which she is not, but if she were, or I was, I would be looking at every possibility for a better future for me and for my family.

If this is the answer, then let us make damned sure it is. Let us make sure that when it is offered there is a complete understanding that it will not help everybody. It will help some, and hopefully it will bring them right back to normal.

Some of the other research, how to regenerate brain cells, how to get motor rhythms back, all of these things are the type of research that will help a lot more people in the long run.

Let us continue with our research. Let us use the investments that have been made for the betterment of all of us.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Mr. Chair, it was not just recently, since the breakthrough research from Dr. Zamboni has come forth, but for many years our colleague from Lethbridge has been trudging forth, raising money for MS. As a father, we know there is nothing he would not do to save his daughter and spare her pain.

I understand that in addition to Ontario, his home province of Alberta does not fund this either. As a father of a daughter who is suffering from this disease, where is he deriving his hope, and how is it that he can overcome the temptation to try a procedure that might end her suffering?

[Rick Casson, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Mr. Chair, that is a great question, and I appreciate that, but whether there are provincial or federal jurisdictional issues, I think we need to be aware of them and we also need to need to work on them.

At the same time that I wrote a letter to our health minister many months ago when this issue first came forward, I also wrote a letter to the health minister of Alberta. I got responses. Do I have issues with some of the responses? Sure I do, and I have talked to our federal health minister about those issues many times. We have raised it at every opportunity, and I am becoming more satisfied with the answers I am hearing. With respect to why some of this is not happening where it needs to, we are going to have to work with that.

One thing I am proud of is that over the last number of years this government has continued to put money into research for the neurosciences, and it has continued to fund the provinces through the Canada Health Act. We have not cut that funding; we have flagged it for a percentage increase every year. So when the decision is made to move forward, the provinces will have the resources, the time and the money to be able to do that.

It is a long and complicated process, and a lot of MS sufferers do not have that kind of time. We will be keeping the pressure on to make sure things are done right but that they are done as fast as they possibly can be.

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

Mr. Chair, it is important to understand that the federal government must take federal leadership. The federal government is responsible for the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. It is neither efficient nor fair nor consistent with charter values for the Government of Canada to tolerate a limbo in which MS sufferers are simply told to wait the years it will take for those studies and in the meantime to put up with their discriminatory disqualification from a straightforward treatment of a diagnosable vascular condition.

[Rick Casson, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Mr. Chair, that question fits into the other things I have said. We are going to move forward on this issue. It may take more time than some people want, particularly me. I do not want to see it take any longer than necessary because this disease does move forward. One thing I will say is that we will keep the pressure on to move this forward as fast and as responsibly as possible.

[Malcolm Allen, NDP, Welland, ON]

Mr. Chair, I would like to thank those who spurred this debate, the member for Etobicoke North as well as the minister, who have helped to put this on the table this evening. It means a great deal to me.

As the member for Lethbridge said, for some of us this is extremely personal. It is not about constituents. It is not about friends. It is about family. In my case it is about my father who died of MS. Although the MS Society will say people do not die of MS, my father is no longer with us today because MS killed him. They can say it was cardiac failure from complications from pneumonia and everything else he went through in his life, but my father is dead because of MS. He would have seen me stand in the House on my first day if he had not died of MS the year before.

It means a great deal to me to do this. It means a great deal to me when I hear the member for Barrie talk passionately about what we can do. But then he asks whether we have written to our provincial health minister. I would suggest to the member that perhaps we should write a letter and have all 308 of us sign it, send it to every health minister across this land, and state that we ought to look at what we can do for those who suffer from this disease.

We cannot know what it is like unless we live with it. My colleague and friend from Lethbridge knows that.

We cannot know what is like to have a father fall because he wants the dignity to go to the bathroom on his own. My father fell behind the door and squealed in agony because I had to open the door and squeeze him between the door and the wall to get in to help him get to his walker. People cannot know that unless they do it, unless they live with it. People cannot know the toll it takes on one's mother as she is providing his care every day of his life.

The member for Lethbridge and I understand that because we have lived with it. We know what it is like for families to watch that person go through agony, to watch their dignity be stolen from them. I watched the person I knew and looked up to as a father look to me as his father, 20 years before it should have happened, because he no longer had the ability to carry on.

As a school boy, my father went to work at the age of 14 in a shipyard in Belfast. He worked his entire life, and at the age of 57 he was diagnosed with MS. It was later in life than most MS sufferers, but unfortunately he got the worst case, which is called progressive MS. In fact it was rampant. He never had a break. He also suffered the aggravated pain in his legs, to the point where he was on morphine every day until the end of his life.

He said to me years after he was diagnosed that someone dealt the cards and he had to play the hand. He came to terms with his suffering. I do not know how. I watched him day in and day out in agony, when he could not eat. When he did eat he was ill because he could not keep the food in his stomach anymore. His sphincter valve had reversed itself, and as the food went down it came back up. That is the life that MS sufferers lead. That is why they look to us and say help. They put their hand out to us and say help because their life does not get better.

Regardless of the drugs they are given, most physicians do not know what to do. In a lot of cases they do not know someone has MS. They say the person is asymptomatic, until an MRI finally shows they have the clouding in the brain. The doctors say “oh, by the way, you have MS”. A lot of specialists throw their hands in the air and say they will do the best they can to try to manage a patient's life. Those are the cards that are dealt, as my Dad used to call them.

What does it mean when we see a treatment and its potential? I agree with my colleague from Lethbridge that this treatment would never have worked for my father. For most of the folks who have rampant progressive MS, this would not work.

My father is not with me today. I am not asking for him, but I know he would want me to ask for all those others, who like him have suffered, especially young people who see older folks and know that is where they are going.

They are going to be in wheelchairs. They are going to be in long-term care facilities. They are going to be in places where, at the end of the day, what will it mean to the quality of their lives and the dignity of their lives? It will be taken away from them.

This is not a cure-all. If it were, I think every member of this House would rush out and sign up for it. We all know that it is not a cure-all. However, what it is indeed is an opportunity for those who potentially could be spared some of the symptoms, perhaps even for a period of time.

I like to say that my mother is small in stature--my mother is four feet eleven inches--but she is the wiliest little Scotswoman one ever saw. She was a giant when it came to advocating for my father. She would go after the MS Society day in and day out and say, “Have you seen this, have you seen that, did you know about this report, did you know about this new study?”, and nine times out of ten, they said no. My mother, at the age of 62, learned how to use the Internet, and she became his advocate as well as his caregiver.

Unfortunately for MS sufferers, it is their families who advocate for them. That is why we see the push we see today when it comes to a specific treatment. It is because they advocate so passionately for them, because they know that their suffering is all too real. As I said earlier, we have to live with it and have to have someone who is dear to us, who we see day in and day out, to know what it really is like.

I know that many of my colleagues here this evening have spoken quite eloquently and passionately about constituents who call, and that is all too real. There are those of us in this House who have family members now, and hopefully will for a long period of time to come, who will hopefully get well in the future. I can only hope for that for my colleague from Lethbridge for his daughter.

There are those of us who have lost loved ones because of this disease. We can divide the line any way we want. We are not going to get into a constitutional crisis over MS, whether it be provincial or federal. We are not about to get into that kind of debate here. However, at the end of the day, whatever power we have, whether that be moral suasion only, we do a disservice, I do a disservice to my father, we do a disservice to MS sufferers and their families, if we do not take that mantle up, if we do not take that challenge and go forward. We desert them. The life is being taken from them now. Let us not desert them any more.

The medical community for a long time deserted MS sufferers, because it did not know what to do. The medical community is now coming back to MS patients saying that it knows what it did and that it has to find things to help. They have looked at all kinds and manners of treatment. You name it, my father tried it, whether it be bee sting serum or something else. My mother learned how to give injections to him when she got to be nearly 70. She figured it out. Let me tell members, people do not get the personal and home care that is needed when they are MS sufferers. It is just not there. They will be told to go to a long-term facility and will be put on a waiting list. Heaven forbid, though, that they actually want to stay at home with their life partners, as my father did.

I used to say to my mother, “Mom, you're a heck of a stubborn lady”, and she said, “Yes, I married him in sickness and in health, and I intend to keep him,” and she did. I can tell members that she kept him until the day he died. He died in his own bed, in his bedroom, because that is where he wanted to die. He chose his moment to go. He knew that he had no more time. He knew that he had no more energy to fight. He knew that this was the end. He decided to go back to his house and his family. It did not make it easier for us to be there with him when he went, but it made it his decision. Ultimately, the only dignity he ended up with at the end of his life was choosing the day he died, when he said “No more. No more treatment. No more interventions. I don't want to be intubated. I don't want any of it. Take me home.”

I took him home from the hospital, and he died in three weeks. That was his choosing. That was the last actual act of dignity he got to perform in the last 20 years of his life. MS robbed my parents of the retirement life they had planned for 40 years. It took it away from them. It takes it away from young people, as well.

A lot of folks say that my dad was lucky. He got to live until he was old. He got it later in life. The unfortunate part is that there are a lot of young folks in this country and across this world who do not have the luxury to live that long. So, I implore--

[The Chair, Conservative, Andrew Scheer]

I am going to have to stop the member there, because the time has expired. To be fair to other colleagues, I will have to stop the member.

Questions and comments, the hon. member for Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo.

[Cathy McLeod, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

Mr. Chair, the member told a story that touched us all. I think we can all relate, through family, friends, or others, to the story the member told. That is the story we certainly want to hear.

We have a doctor who is very well respected in Kamloops. He wrote a significant article in the newspaper, because this is so prevalent among the MS sufferers in our community. In the article, he talked about the disease in a way people could understand. He talked about the promise of the treatment and said that he is optimistic. However, he also added caution. He is really worried. We have processes in place to approve of treatments and to move treatments into the mainstream.

Yes, let us move as fast as we can, but let us not give up on appropriately ensuring that what we are doing is safe and that we are doing something that is really positive for health and safety.

We heard earlier from my colleague. His doctor was giving his patients a similar message. Perhaps the member could reflect on those doctors who express that bit of concern that yes, we need to move fast, but we have to make sure that we have a good process.

[Malcolm Allen, NDP, Welland, ON]

Mr. Chair, I appreciate the question.

I think everyone agrees. I do not think that there is any MS sufferer out there who says that they wish to be a human guinea pig for something that is experimental.

The problem most MS sufferers have is that there is no cure. This one particular aspect is not being purported to be a cure either. What they are saying is that it looks as if it has a reasonable prospect of helping to alleviate symptoms.

Dr. Zamboni has not said that he found the magic bullet that cured MS. If that were the case, they would be lined up around the block and around the country to get at him and those who can do the procedure.

Yes, one needs to be able to make sure that it is good science. The difference with this particular procedure is that the procedure is done to alleviate different types of symptoms for other diseases, such as different types of blockages. Therefore, it is not new in the sense that it is radically different from something that is done somewhere else. That is the difference with this. That is why people have latched onto it so quickly. It is not just the results that people have seen in some patients. What they see is that it is easier to do in the sense that it is not a complicated procedure.

All surgeries have risks. Let us be abundantly clear about that. If you get an anesthetic, there is a risk involved in getting the anesthetic.

I thank the member for the question.

We need to go quickly but scientifically.

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

Mr. Chair, I would like to thank my colleague for sharing something so deeply personal with us.

I think he will appreciate one email I received. It states:

I'm a child of an MS victim and I am writing this to you, to ask you if you have enough compassion to legalize a saving treatment.

My dad has had MS for about 13 years and since his diagnosis, nothing has been the same. He has not been able to do all the things he has wanted to do with us and when he has tried to accomplish EVERYTHING, he lies in his bed, in extreme pain. The worst part of it all is that I have to watch, knowing there is nothing I can do. But from the results on CCSVI treatment, I think maybe I can. Maybe if I write this letter on behalf of me and my younger brother and sister, we'll at least know that we could have contributed to a difference.

I want the member to know that there are people who have primary and secondary MS who are getting symptom relief from devastating MS. There are no medications for primary or secondary MS. Even though drugs exist for relapsing remitting, the efficacy is about one-third, or 33%. Should we not be undertaking the research now, which is the responsibility of the federal government, by giving people diagnosis and treatment and then following with the research?

[Malcolm Allen, NDP, Welland, ON]

Mr. Chair, I certainly understand what that young boy was saying when he wrote a letter about his father. I could have been him years ago, writing as well, if this had been around at the time.

As I said earlier, we will do anything to help them. When it is a family member, we will do whatever it takes to help, because we feel helpless. We watch as these people suffer day in and day out. Every day gets worse, and we cannot raise a hand to help. One needs to live it to feel it, to know what it is like not to be able to help. It is the most powerless feeling in the world to watch a father or another loved one suffer and know that you cannot help. In agony, I watched my father's legs bounce like jumping jacks for an hour uncontrollably, because no medication would stop them. I held them with my hands and pushed his feet to the floor to try to help. My arms simply bounced. That is how powerless I felt. That is how much it means to do what we need to do to help them.

[Carol Hughes, NDP, Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON]

Mr. Chair, I greatly appreciate the member sharing that personal story.

As I mentioned before, I have some friends, Dave and Carla, in Elliot Lake. I know what they been living through for quite some time. Dave wants nothing more than to at least have some relief. If this procedure could get him out of his wheelchair or at least get him to move his hands so that he could hold his six-year-old son, because he has never been able to hold his son, that would be very powerful for them.

What about Lynn and John Gagnon, in Elliot Lake? Lynn owns a hairdressing shop there. All she wants is be able to get up and go to work, just like everybody else, and tend to her clients and not feel so tired.

There are Lisa and Rob from Manitowaning, who just want to get on with their lives.

MS has a devastating impact.

We have heard over and over again tonight that this is a provincial issue with regard to access. What can the federal government actually do? We've heard this with regard to the HST and the federal government passing the buck to the provinces after it instituted something in the budget to pass the HST. The Conservatives kept saying that it was the provinces.

What can the federal government do?

[Malcolm Allen, NDP, Welland, ON]

Mr. Chair, in reviewing the material at the subcommittee on neurological disease, Dr. Ewart Mark Haacke talked about the federal government making a commitment as far as putting a centre of excellence together. He suggested that even if the government started with one that saw 500 patients, that would amount to 500 MS studies that could actually be looked at. If the government put five centres across the country, that would total 2,500 patients. If the government put 1,000 in each one, that would be 5,000. If it actually worked, and the efficacy was proven, the following year they could put 2,000 through each place, and that would amount to 10,000 people.

As I said earlier, in an exchange with the member for Lethbridge, this particular procedure will not fix all cases. MS sufferers know that. This procedure will not fix all of them, but it can fix some. If it fixes one, then it is well worth doing.

[Daniel Petit, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Justice]

Mr. Chair, I have a question for my colleague. Let us put federal and provincial partisanship aside.

In Quebec, the incidence of multiple sclerosis is as high as that of fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue syndrome, lupus and Crohn's disease. However, the Collège des médecins du Québec, through its President and CEO, Dr. Yves Lamontagne, says that we must be very careful. It says this is just theory for now and before going any further and giving everyone the green light, we must wait four or five months. Dr. Zamboni's surgery has not yet been proven.

Does my colleague approve of the decision made not by the political parties, but by the President and CEO of the Collège des médecins du Québec?

[Malcolm Allen, NDP, Welland, ON]

Mr. Chair, I have to admit that I did not quite catch the entire question. I apologize to my colleague for that. I was trying to blow my nose, believe it or not, and maybe gain a little bit of composure.

Let me reiterate what I said earlier. I think we have the ability in the House to come together, stand up for MS sufferers and tell them that we believe we can help them. The easiest way to do that would be, as the member for Barrie suggested, to write a letter to provincial ministers and for all of us to sign it.

[Larry Miller, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

Mr. Chair, we are all here tonight to speak about a very important subject that affects the lives of many Canadians and many people around the world. Before I get into what I have to say, a lot of people here tonight are very passionate about this. Some have tried to politicize this and I would remind members on all sides of the House that we get nowhere in doing that. This is not a subject to politicize and I think we should all respect that.

Multiple sclerosis has touched my immediate family, as it has the member for Lethbridge and the member for Welland, and the families of many of my constituents. Canada is known to be a very high risk area for MS. My sister Marylou has MS. Many other people with MS in Canada are counting on all of us here to do as much as possible as quickly as possible to find treatments and eventually a cure.

Multiple sclerosis is a disease that randomly attacks the central nervous system, affecting the control a person has over his or her body. Symptoms may range from numbness to blindness to paralysis.

I want to thank the minister for her attention to this health issue and this take note debate. I have had a very good working relationship with the minister, who has always been attentive to the issue of MS and sensitive to the concerns of MS patients. She does understand how debilitating and devastating neurological diseases can be for those affected.

In 2008-09, we invested $120 million for neurological diseases, including $5.3 million for MS alone, through the Canadian Institutes of Health Research. In fact, since 2001, we have invested over $45 million in MS research. Today, however, I want to talk a little about chronic cerebrospinal venous insufficiency, also known as CCSVI for short, and how it looks promising as a possible new treatment for MS.

I know that the minister and the government recognize that the findings of Dr. Zamboni provide great hope for Canadians suffering with MS. Patients like my sister, my friends and neighbours, including Tammy Graver, Mandy Maisonneuve and Dianne Hepburn, just to name a few, and other Canadians see this new treatment as a great chance to improve their health and as something worth trying as soon as possible. It has given them a level of hope they have not had in years. Let us all work together to bring that hope to fruition.

We all know that provincial and territorial governments make decisions on matters related to the administration and delivery of health services, including decisions regarding the treatment and diagnosis of CCSVI. However, we also know that both levels of government have a role here. Rather than politicize this issue, as I said earlier, let us have all parties, all of us here tonight, work together for the benefit of all MS sufferers.

I want to remind Health Canada and the national MS Society, for which I have great respect, that they need to play a leadership role to fast-track the necessary research and approval process so that Canadian patients can get access to this promising treatment as soon as possible. I want to take this opportunity to ensure that the provinces, if they are listening, know that I fully support embracing this new treatment as rapidly as possible and as safely as possible and devoting some health care and research dollars toward it.

They need to ensure that MS patients have the access to the diagnostics and MRIs that are required to determine what course of treatments can best help them. Research plays an important role in confirming and validating new scientific findings and Health Canada and the MS Society need to do all they can to help the provinces and territories determine implications for treatment.

That is why the minister has asked Dr. Alain Beaudet, president of the CIHR, to provide advice to the government on how to advance research in this important area. The CIHR is consulting with the research community and will be convening, in collaboration with the MS Society of Canada, an international meeting of top scientists to identify research priorities for Canada and accelerate research and innovation on MS.

I know the minister will continue to work with the MS Society and the CIHR to encourage researchers to apply for funding in order to further the research for CCSVI and MS. No other government has committed as much as ours has for neurological diseases, including MS. We do not have a cure yet, but we will. I feel very strongly about that.

We need to get the provinces and Health Canada to move faster because people's lives hang in the balance. The better treatments for MS we can get our patients access to, the better their lives will be.

I want to tell everyone a little more about what CCSVI is and where we are at on it. I want to let everyone know the decision to fund the research in Canada was spurred by the overwhelming interest in the results of a recent study by Italian vascular surgeon, Dr. Paolo Zamboni, a professor of medicine at the University of Ferrara in Italy.

Dr. Zamboni has suggested that CCSVI could be a cause of MS and reported that a procedure to alleviate it has reduced the symptoms in people who suffer from multiple sclerosis.

On that note, my sister is about to get the test in Barrie, Ontario to see if she can have this treatment. It is just one part of the process. We wish her well in that.

The MS Society describes CCSVI as a hypothetical disruption of blood flow in which the venous system is not able to efficiently remove blood from the central nervous system, resulting in increased pressure in the veins of the brain and spinal cord, which in turn results in damage to those areas.

Dr. Zamboni has revived the idea that this disruption in blood flow and drainage is present in people with MS and has devised an experimental procedure that involves removing the blockage in the veins that carry blood to and from the brain.

So far, he has performed the angioplasty-like surgery on 120 MS patients, including his wife whose multiple sclerosis provoked his interest in tackling the disease.

There has clearly been a great deal of work done in Italy on this new treatment, and it is key that we move more quickly to make these new treatments and research available to those it may help. In short, we must accept the progress achieved by Dr. Zamboni.

I think the MS Society and our health departments have been a little too cautious, with all due respect, with a take-it-slow approach, but we should respect the medical expertise in Europe that has developed this treatment and evaluate it as quickly as possible.

I want to thank the minister for the funding she has made available so far. I firmly believe we should continue to fund MS research as a high priority and fast-track the CCSVI treatment research.

I want to encourage medical researchers to pursue new treatments for MS and make use of the research dollars the minister has made available. Early treatment of MS is important, as it is in any disease, and access to proven therapies should not be restricted by where a person with MS happens to live.

According to Dr. Joel Oger, a neurologist at UBC and one of the co-authors of a consensus statement on the use of MS therapies, there is increasing evidence that damage to nerve fibres occurs early in MS, and it is important that all people with active disease be treated as early as possible. New information about how MS causes damage within the central nervous system is making early treatment all the more important.

One of the main problems MS patients face is an overly bureaucratic system that places too much decision-making authority on what treatments should be covered under our health care system with the panels of doctors, bureaucracies, provincial governments and possibly with insurance companies that may be involved.

At this point where we do not have a cure and only a limited number of effective treatments available for MS, some of the real decision-making power should be with the patients and their own personal attending physicians about what treatments they should be able to use to combat this debilitating and deadly disease.

We need to free up our physicians and their patients in these circumstances to try new treatments like CCSVI. Doctors who have criticized CCSVI should be more open-minded about possible new treatments and withhold their judgment until results can be confirmed or duplicated.

In fact, I am very disappointed in the comments by some doctors who have basically discarded Dr. Zamboni's treatment as bogus or without merit. They should put their pride aside and admit that there are possibly other ways to treat MS patients than the methods they have become accustomed to. In other words, they should keep an open mind about other possible procedures like CCSVI.

The MS Society of Canada has made arguments through its consensus statement that all current approved drug treatment should be offered to all people with MS who could benefit from treatment, and to ask provincial governments and third party payers to expand their criteria for drug cost reimbursement.

I must say I am also a little disappointed the MS Society has not yet taken an even broader approach to include more new treatment options that have shown promise, like CCSVI, and encourage the provinces to allow individual patients and doctors more freedom to choose their course of treatment.

In conclusion, I once again want to thank the minister for her attention to MS. On behalf of my sister, family and friends, I thank everybody who has participated in the debate tonight.

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

Mr. Chair, I thank the hon. member for his moving speech and for having the courage to say that the federal government has a role. I extend my best wishes to his sister and family.

I want Canadians living with this disease to have their voice in Parliament tonight. Another letter states in part:

I was diagnosed with MS exactly 14 years ago, and am at the point where I pretty much require round-the-clock care. No medications help me, but I take several for symptom relief. My medical care and Home Care needs are a burden on tax payers, and at the young age...I think about suicide often because living like this is hell. A simple vascular procedure that is done regularly for people with other medical conditions is being denied to me.... This fact makes me cry every day, especially when I hear from people who have received the treatment so far...how well they are doing, and improving daily.

What will the member commit to doing to ask his government to help move this procedure, the diagnosis and treatment of CCSVI along? A few years ago a drug that has now been removed was fast-tracked. What will he commit to do to help move this along and also to get the $10 million requested for research? The diagnosis and treatment have to occur together with the research.

[Larry Miller, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

Mr. Chair, I thank the member for her obviously strong interest in this subject tonight.

Being here tonight, including the member across the way and other members, to talk about this shows a commitment. This is a new procedure. Whatever happens at the end of this, we all want the same thing. We want a safe procedure. However, I made it clear that I would like to give credit to the research that is done and not reinvent the wheel. We need to use it.

I am not naive enough to think that we can snap our fingers and this will all be over tomorrow. We need to do research to add to the research that has been done in other countries. As I said, some doctors may have been a little premature in their decisions. I found it disappointing and I know my sister did as well. Basically, they were writing off some of the research and I do not think we should do that. We need to do research. It has given a lot of hope and we need to further that.

[Jim Maloway, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Mr. Chair, the member for Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound gave a very good presentation. While I agree with him, I have to point out that I see a big difference between how the government reacted to the H1N1 situation versus how it has reacted to the situation with respect to MS.

If I recall, the health minister got representatives of all the provinces in a room and they worked out a plan to vaccinate the population of Canada. They did the advertising. They had it all planned out and it worked very well, I thought. The same sort of approach should be done here. We have known about Dr. Zamboni's treatment probably for a year.

I would encourage the members opposite, including the member who just spoke, to get the minister moving. She should be active with the provincial ministers of health. Let us get some action.

I was a provincial member in Manitoba for 23 years and I realize the importance of the provinces. They do not all act in concert with one another, but I think the MS Society and MS activists should be working very heavily on the provinces because that is where they are going to get action. We here have to get the group together to get the job done.

[Larry Miller, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

Mr. Chair, it is a good point which has been echoed many times tonight on this side of the House and by the member again, that talking to the provinces is a big part of this, but our minister's record on health issues, whether it is H1N1 or others, speaks for itself. She is working on that and we all know that in federal-provincial issues, they do not always go as quickly and smoothly as we would all like them to.

He is a member from there. I was not aware of that before, so he is well aware of the complications there, but that does not mean that we sit back, throw our hands up, and say it is over. We have to keep at it and I feel very confident that our health minister will be doing that.

[Colin Carrie, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Health]

Mr. Chair, I want to thank the member for all his work bringing this issue forward. He talks about the different roles of government. He mentions the Minister of Health. I know her and I know that she feels that the facts are very important.

He talked about the relationship of his sister with the doctor and of the importance of that doctor-patient relationship.

I have heard some comments over and over again tonight that are simply untrue. I think everybody in this House agrees that the federal government does have a role. As a matter of fact, as he mentioned in his own speech, we have $5.3 million. We were asked for $10 million, but the Minister of Health actually said there is more money on the table. She is just waiting to receive requests so that this research can be done because that is what is really important here. It is about respect for the patient. It is about respect for people and families that are involved with this devastating disease. The Minister of Health has a firm commitment and a leadership role in developing and working with the research community to get those facts out.

I wanted the member to comment because he has had a personal experience in his family. How important is it that we are working at the federal government level for that research so that doctors and patients can have the facts?

[Larry Miller, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

Mr. Chair, I thank the parliamentary secretary certainly for his work on the file.

If there is one thing that we have found out tonight, which I feel very confident about, it is the commitment we just heard that the minister is waiting. There is not necessarily a cap on the money that is out there. We all know that more dollars going into research should expedite the process, and I think we would all agree that that is a good thing.

He talked about my sister and the kind of hope that this kind of debate can have for her and anybody else with this disease. I know first-hand how this plays on her and my brother-in-law and their daughter. I know how it plays on her six siblings, of which I am one, and we just all have to do everything we can to help with that.