House of Commons Hansard #55 of the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was post.

Topics

Report stageJobs and Economic Growth ActGovernment Orders

4:55 p.m.

NDP

Peter Stoffer NDP Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS

Mr. Speaker, I rise today on behalf of my party to denounce the government's actions on Bill C-9 and what it tries to do.

Let me provide a bit of historical background. I know you are fairly new member of Parliament, Mr. Speaker, but there are some members of Parliament on the Conservative side that have memories of this place.

I remember in 1997 when Preston Manning and the Reform Party said that under no circumstances would they invoke closure on government legislation if they were in government. The Liberals, from 1997 until 2006, brought in closure on important debate 58 times.

Every time, the Conservatives, led by members like Monte Solberg, stood in their places and went absolutely bananas on the Liberal Party. Mr. Solberg was right. Mr. Solberg and the Reform Party of Canada were absolutely correct in their objection to closure on such important legislation. What do we get today? We get closure from the same party that said it would never do that.

We heard the President of the Treasury Board say that we had 17 days of debate on this legislation. It is over 800 pages. I guarantee the President of the Treasury Board has not read all 800 pages because not one member of Parliament in the House can honestly say he or she has read the entire legislation.

However, I can assure everyone of this much. I have tried for five years to get a one-page bill on national tartan day through the House with no success. Yet the government wants to rush through 800 pages of complicated legislation in 17 days.

My hon. colleague from the Liberal Party who just spoke is absolutely correct. The subject of AECL is of such grave importance to the Canadian people that this should be a stand-alone debate so there can be proper debate in the House and in committee with proper witnesses, as well as a complete and fair analysis of what this would mean.

It is so typical of the Conservatives, who have learned very well from the Liberal Party, to throw all the junk into one pile. I am surprised they did not include their dry cleaning in the bill because literally everything else is in it. I am sure when the Auditor General gets her chance, she will review their dry cleaning expenditures.

We fear that AECL will be sold for a song to some private enterprise. Years from now, heaven forbid, if something happens at AECL, who will be left holding the bag? It is certainly not the company. It is going to run away and hide. It will people of Canada who will have to clean up this mess. This is the type of debate we should have on a stand-alone basis.

Then there is Canada Post. My father was a proud letter carrier in Division L in Marpole in Vancouver for many years. He was proud to be a letter carrier. I know many people across the country who work for Canada Post and treat their careers very well. Canada Post is one of the last vestiges we have of Canada from coast to coast to coast.

I have had the opportunity of living in British Columbia, Yukon and now in Nova Scotia and one thing is clear. Canada Post is in most communities across the country. The issue of remailings will take millions of dollars from Canada Post revenue. By the way, it has been mandated that any profits have to be returned to general revenues. We have known this for many years.

This will put a death knell in the Canada Post operations and eventually lead to the privatization of Canada Post, which I never thought in my life I would ever see. Eventually, so typical of their philosophy, Conservatives will privatize anything that has “Canada” on it.

Where did the Conservatives learn to do this? The Liberal Party of Canada. If flight services can be privatized into NAV Canada, then literally anything else can be privatized. What is next? Will Parks Canada will be privatized? Will Correctional Service Canada be privatized? Will the supply chain to the military be privatized? What is left?

Report stageJobs and Economic Growth ActGovernment Orders

4:55 p.m.

NDP

Jim Maloway NDP Elmwood—Transcona, MB

CBC.

Report stageJobs and Economic Growth ActGovernment Orders

4:55 p.m.

NDP

Peter Stoffer NDP Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS

Is CBC gone next? What do we have left of Canadiana in our country that the people over there want to get rid of?

I guarantee that if the Conservatives ever have a majority government, we can kiss Canada goodbye, the way they are going. They make it more expensive to live in Canada. They talk about tax reductions, but the reality is that not one Conservative will stand in his or her place and say very clearly that on January 1, employees and employers in this country will have to pay more in income tax in terms of payroll deductions for EI and CPP. That is a fact. They refuse to admit that.

My hon. colleague from Elmwood—Transcona has said very clearly that the airport travellers security charge is now the highest in the world. The Conservatives do not like to say that, because they are the so-called tax-reduction party, but the reality is that they are the tax-increase party.

I will let the House know a little bit of history. Can any member name me the one party in Canada that brought us the two taxes most hated by Canadians? Robert Borden of the Conservative Party during World War I brought us income tax so that we could pay for World War I. The last hero of World War I recently passed away. I think it is fair to say that we have paid for World War I already, but we still have the tax.

What other tax do we all hate? Oh yes, it is the goods and services tax, which is now being brought in as a combination in Ontario and British Columbia. The Conservatives like to say that this is a provincial decision. It was an easy to decision to make when they were bribed with billions of Canadian tax dollars. It is amazing. Again, who brought in that tax? It was the Conservative government of Brian Mulroney. God love these guys. They refuse to revisit their history.

What did the NDP bring us? Let me give the House a few things. It was the only party to stand up against Japanese repatriation to the interior of British Columbia and Alberta. It was the only party to stand up and say that it was wrong to intern Japanese-Canadian citizens and take all their possessions away, steal from them, and give them nothing when they returned. It was only the CCF, under Angus MacInnis, J.S. Woodsworth, and Tommy Douglas that had the courage and the fortitude to make the political decision to stand up and say that it was wrong. Forty something years later, this House had to apologize for that.

The NDP also brought us health care. It brought us medicare. It also brought us pensions for veterans and the Canadian people. That is what the New Democratic Party has brought to this House. That is what we have brought to Canadians. We do not bring the huge tax increases in income tax, the GST, and all kinds of levies on services that these Conservatives continue to bring us time in and time out.

The fact is that they throw all this junk legislation into one bill and say that we have had 17 days to read an 800-page legal, technical, difficult document to understand. Then they say that we have had enough debate and that Canadians already understand it. They tell us that they are okay and to trust them, because they are Conservatives. The most dangerous thing Canadians can ever do is trust the Conservatives.

However, I will say this. There are many Conservatives who on an individual basis I happen to like. In fact, there is not one of them I would not want as my neighbour, but I have to watch out for my wallet, my pocketbook, and my job if I continue to look at these Conservatives in any kind of way.

I would encourage all Canadians to take the ten-tonne challenge. What is the ten-tonne challenge? It is the combined weight of all the Conservatives together, and it equals ten tonnes.

I recommend that all Canadians in the next election, which I hope is tomorrow, take the ten-tonne challenge and vote for anyone but Conservatives. We will be able to sleep better at night knowing that Canadians and many corporations we have in this country, especially the Crown corporations, will have positive long-term jobs.

Report stageJobs and Economic Growth ActGovernment Orders

5:05 p.m.

Liberal

Joe Volpe Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON

Mr. Speaker, there is a little competition in this House about who can speak loudest and most eloquently, and I think the member for Sackville—Eastern Shore is in the running.

I know that he actually read, unlike everybody else on the government side, the 880 pages of the bill. I would like him to use some of his experience, some of his expertise, to help the government members opposite answer one very simple question, lest they fall prey to the accusation that he suggested already, which is that the government side is a group of tax-and-squander members.

Will he tell us, to help the Conservatives out, because they are in need of assistance, what page in the government's action plan and budget includes the $3.2 billion tax on air travellers in this country?

Second, will he also refer them to the page in that action plan/budget plan, Bill C-9, that shows where the $550 million bribe to the State of Michigan Legislature is located so that we can know how the bridge is going to be built?

Report stageJobs and Economic Growth ActGovernment Orders

5:05 p.m.

NDP

Peter Stoffer NDP Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS

Mr. Speaker, I happen to have Bill C-9 right here. It is over 800 pages long.

Report stageJobs and Economic Growth ActGovernment Orders

5:05 p.m.

An. hon. member

It is 880.

Report stageJobs and Economic Growth ActGovernment Orders

5:05 p.m.

NDP

Peter Stoffer NDP Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS

It is 880 pages long, to be exact, Mr. Speaker.

I can assure you, Mr. Speaker, as I said earlier, that not one member of Parliament has read every single page in this book, because it is literally impossible to follow a document this thick. One would need a team of Toronto Bay Street lawyers, along with a bunch from Halifax, by the way, who are very good, to fully comprehend this complete book.

My hon. colleague, a long-time member of Parliament, is absolutely correct. The Conservatives are the tax-and-squander party. I just mentioned $1 billion on a couple of gazebos in the Minister of Industry's riding and for Toronto. It is $1 billion, while London did it for $30 million. The member should check it out.

Report stageJobs and Economic Growth ActGovernment Orders

5:10 p.m.

Bloc

Guy André Bloc Berthier—Maskinongé, QC

Mr. Speaker, I agree with our colleague. It is a rather thick document.

I would like to ask him a question. This is the second time, since I arrived here in 2004, that the budget implementation bill is an omnibus bill.

In 2005, the Liberals had included a number of measures in their budget in an attempt to hide the bitter pill. The Conservatives are now doing the same thing in 2010. With Bill C-9, the Liberals and the Conservatives are attacking Canada Post. They want to privatize Canada Post, which turns a profit. They are privatizing it and leaving the deficits to the public sector.

I would like to hear what my colleague has to say about that.

Report stageJobs and Economic Growth ActGovernment Orders

5:10 p.m.

NDP

Peter Stoffer NDP Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS

Mr. Speaker, my colleague is absolutely correct. The reason a government would throw a bunch of junk into an omnibus bill like this is that there are always a couple of good things within a budget. Obviously, if we vote against the budget, months later the government can say that we voted against this or we voted against that. At the end of the day, this is a confidence vote.

We are telling the Conservatives very clearly that we in this corner of this side of the House have absolutely no confidence in the governance of this country by the Conservative Party of Canada.

Report stageJobs and Economic Growth ActGovernment Orders

5:10 p.m.

Bloc

Mario Laframboise Bloc Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to speak to Bill C-9.

I have before me this bill, which is called a bill to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on March 4, 2010 and other measures. I have it in hand and I know that everyone is familiar with it.

It is a very large bill with 880 pages and more than 2,200 clauses. Those who are watching us might think that such a large bill is meant to improve things for Canadians in terms of taxes. It is called a budget implementation bill, but on the contrary, it is a Conservative scheme for pushing through a significant portion of their policies—their right-wing philosophy of which I will provide some examples—knowing full well that the official opposition, the Liberal Party, will back down. Thus, we already know that some members will be absent. They say they are against the bill when they take part in the debate, but when the time comes to vote, they will back down. The Conservatives know this very well. That is why they decided, after four years as a minority government, to seek passage of unpopular measures in bulk that they could not get passed in separate bills.

It is important that Quebeckers and Canadians watching us understand this: the Conservative Party has included unpopular measures in this bill, measures that would otherwise not get passed.

I will take as an example part 15 of the bill, on the Canada Post Corporation Act, on page 568. Clause 1885 has one paragraph:

1885. Section 15 of the Canada Post Corporation Act is amended by adding the following after subsection (2):

(3) The exclusive privilege referred to in subsection 14(1) does not apply to letters intended for delivery to an addressee outside Canada.

This change was part of Bill C-44, introduced by the Conservative government on June 17, 2009. That bill went to the Standing Committee on Transport, Infrastructure and Communities, of which I am a member. The debates were so serious that, after prorogation, the Conservatives decided not to bring back this bill, which would have made changes to the Canada Post Corporation. The Conservatives decided not to bring it back, because changes in the exclusive privilege of Canada Post will reduce its revenues.

As a Quebec sovereignist, I believe that one day, we will have our own country. We will control our postal service, but until that happens, there is one agency, the Canada Post Corporation, that delivers mail in all regions of Canada. Not a single member in this House would dare say that postal services are not important. It is the only service that the Government of Canada provides to the public through a crown corporation, Canada Post. It affects every single citizen, and these services are provided every day. It is the only service left for the public, simply because the remaining public services are provided by other levels of government. Municipalities provide a significant number, as do the provinces. The only service that the Government of Canada provides to the public is the postal service.

When the revenues of Canada Post are cut, its services are also cut. That is what we heard in committee, even before the first version of the bill, when remailers came up with an idea, and lost their case in the courts. These remailers were, and still are, operating.

When they lost in court, they brought their request to us. The president of Canada Post came to tell us why the corporation was suing the remailing companies it had tolerated for 20 years. It was because Canada Post lost approximately $80 million in 2007, and the losses were not stopping.

It is important that Quebeckers and Canadians, and even members of the House, fully understand what remailing is. Companies offer to collect a large business's mail and send it to clients overseas, outside of Canada. Canada Post has tolerated remailing for a long time. Obviously, these companies have grown and are continuing to grow. They have found all sorts of ways to collect mail here and send it from elsewhere. They ship mail in containers and then mail it from overseas, in countries where the costs are significantly lower than in Canada, which leads to financial losses for Canada Post.

Remailing companies came to realize that as long as they were collecting international mail from businesses, they could suggest to these businesses that they collect and send all of their mail. When Canada Post realized that remailing companies were signing mail collection contracts with all of the large organizations—universities and all of the major health networks—it realized that it was losing significant revenue.

In order to stay afloat, Canada Post has to cut services. There is a reason why, in the past three or four years, Canada Post has been closing post offices, trying to reduce the number of rural routes and installing group mailboxes instead of offering home delivery.

I do not think that a single member of this House would dare debate this issue. The Conservatives have decided to hide this measure in their omnibus bill, Bill C-9. We must never forget that Canada Post was the first major Canadian corporation. The famous Royal Mail has always been delivered ever since there was mail. The largest union in Canada is the Canadian Union of Postal Workers. It makes sense because the corporation delivers mail to every home.

The Conservative Party is destroying this service. This bill will take away its exclusive privilege. Canada Post won in court because the onus was on the companies to prove that they were obeying the law. Bill C-9 will take away that exclusive privilege and remailers will be able to collect mail.

What the government and the minister are telling us is that remailers will only be able to collect mail destined for foreign countries. If they collect mail distributed in Canada, it will be up to Canada Post to prove it. We can imagine the money Canada Post will have to spend to prove that private businesses are not collecting only international mail.

The companies knew what they were doing when they asked for the end of the exclusive privilege. Their problem was that they had to prove in court that they were not collecting mail. Now, Canada Post will have to prove it. What does that mean? I can say right now that Canada Post plans on cutting its spending by $250 million over the next two years. That means that services will be cut in rural areas in Quebec and the rest of Canada.

With the Bloc Québécois, I will be voting against Bill C-9 because I do not want to be responsible for ending the provision of service to the entire population. Every citizen pays taxes, whether they live in a rural or urban area. Everyone has the right to postal service in all parts of Quebec and Canada. I do not want to be the one to vote to eliminate postal service in rural areas.

Report stageJobs and Economic Growth ActGovernment Orders

5:20 p.m.

Liberal

Paul Szabo Liberal Mississauga South, ON

Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for a very good dissertation on the whole issue of remailers. He has described it very accurately and has raised the spectre of serious consequences, certainly to Canada Post as a corporation but also in another area that concerns me. We had the same kinds of issues with regard to airlines when they were talking about whether they would get rid of Air Canada and things like this.

If we wanted to run a business as a private, for profit business, we would eliminate, in terms of airlines, the unprofitable routes and just deal with the most lucrative ones and maximize our profits. However, when we think of CBC and Canada Post, these are the anchors that communicate and connect this country together.

I am a little concerned, I do not know if the member is, that withdrawing the kind of essential services to rural Canadians is really contemptuous of the vision of the country, the importance of keeping people connected and that we are all created equally in terms having access to essential services.

I would be interested if the member is aware of any other potential--

Report stageJobs and Economic Growth ActGovernment Orders

5:20 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Barry Devolin

Order, please. The hon. member for Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel.

Report stageJobs and Economic Growth ActGovernment Orders

5:20 p.m.

Bloc

Mario Laframboise Bloc Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC

Mr. Speaker, this gives me the opportunity to tell my hon. colleague that it goes much further, since it affects all urban environments. My colleague does not understand what Canada Post is doing at this time. There is a moratorium on post office closures in rural areas, but not in urban areas.

So in urban environments, they are trying to give contracts to private enterprise. Of course, when the time comes to renegotiate the contracts, since Canada Post has lower revenues, fees are not increased, nor what is paid to dealers for providing the service. More and more dealers in urban areas are not interested in the service.

Now Canada Post is forced to centralize in post offices that are further away because there are no more dealers, all because Canada Post is broke, and all urban areas are going to be affected.

The members of this House believe that the measure they are taking is a minor, short-term measure and that Canada Post will recover, but Canada Post will not recover. In order to provide the service, Canada Post will have to rely more and more on dealers in urban areas, for instance, and yet will have a much harder time paying the dealers. So dealers—obliged to provide a certain amount of space, but not paid for the space they are providing even though dealers have rent to pay to the owners of locations—will no longer be able to sign contracts with Canada Post. Worse still, in Montreal, at this very moment, fewer contracts are being signed.

Dealers even say they no longer want to provide the service because it is not worth it. Once again, this does affect rural areas, but hold on to your hats, because it is also going to affect urban areas pretty soon.

Report stageJobs and Economic Growth ActGovernment Orders

June 3rd, 2010 / 5:25 p.m.

NDP

Jim Maloway NDP Elmwood—Transcona, MB

Mr. Speaker, clearly, the Canada Post remailer issue is a smoking gun in Bill C-9 because it, like the sale of AECL, especially does not belong in Bill C-9. The evidence of that is the fact that the government itself introduced the remailer issue in Bill C-14 and Bill C-44 in the last couple of years.

I applaud the member for his analysis of the bill. I want to ask him why he thinks the Liberals should be able to claim that they are sympathetic to this issue, when in fact they will not be supporting it.

Report stageJobs and Economic Growth ActGovernment Orders

5:25 p.m.

Bloc

Mario Laframboise Bloc Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC

Mr. Speaker, I was quite surprised to see the NDP member from Outremont try to add a new measure on oil or oil drilling to the bill in an attempt to entice the Liberals to vote in favour of the bill. This quite simply means that with such a measure, the NDP would also be prepared to support Bill C-9, knowing full well that some of the measures are unacceptable.

I did not understand what the deputy leader of the New Democratic Party, the hon. member for Outremont, was trying to do. He wanted to add a measure, apparently to try to mollify the Liberals to get Bill C-9 passed. I am trying to understand, but I still do not get it.

Report stageJobs and Economic Growth ActGovernment Orders

5:25 p.m.

NDP

Jim Maloway NDP Elmwood—Transcona, MB

Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased to speak to Bill C-9 and to the Group No. 2 deletions that the NDP alone has been attempting to have deleted from the bill.

To answer the Bloc member's question, we in the NDP recognize that we cannot effect changes to legislation in Parliament without the co-operation of the other two opposition parties. Therefore, it makes sense that if it takes a proposal or an amendment to get the Liberals to support it, we would be prepared to do that.

However, having said that, we have no intention of voting for the bill even if we were to get the deletions that we were looking for because, once again, the bill is not an honest attempt at a budget implementation bill. It is well-known that if we want to implement the provisions of the budget, as the member for Mississauga South has indicated, we should at least talk about the budget or at least mention it in the throne speech.

What the Conservatives have done here, recognizing that the Liberals are the weak link in the chain here, is decided in a minority situation to ram all this stuff into a bill that is basically like vegetable soup and throw in the issue of the remailers, the issue of selling AECL and the environmental issues and serve it up in an 880-page omnibus bill and hope for the best. They are basically challenging the Liberals to vote against them and have an election over it. That is not the way we should be running Parliament.

The Conservatives presented the post office remailers as a government bill on two occasions and they ran into a wall. Even the Liberals said no when they brought in the remailer issue on Bill C-14 and Bill C-44 over the last couple of years. The brain trust of the Conservative government saw a way to get the budget implementation bill through so it threw in a bunch of things that did not apply.

Now we have the government's very weak defence today of saying that we have had so many days to discuss the bill and that it brought in an omnibus bill because the Liberals did it before. In other words, two wrongs make a right. Just because the Conservatives can point to and attack the member for Mississauga South on the basis that he was in the House when the Liberal Party was in power and it did the same thing that--

Report stageJobs and Economic Growth ActGovernment Orders

5:30 p.m.

NDP

The Acting Speaker NDP Denise Savoie

It being 5:30 p.m., the House will now proceed to the consideration of private members' business as listed on today's order paper.

Proactive Enforcement and Defect Accountability Legislation (PEDAL) ActPrivate Members' Business

5:30 p.m.

Liberal

Joe Volpe Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON

moved that Bill C-511, An Act respecting the reporting of motor vehicle information and to amend the Motor Vehicle Safety Act (improving public safety), be read the second time and referred to a committee.

Madam Speaker, I am pleased to move the bill in the House. One might ask why Bill C-511, which I refer to a the PEDAL act, the proactive enforcement and defect accountability legislation, would it be so necessary today.

Many of us can speak eloquently about the logistical issues associated with any bill, all the finances associated with them, all the technology, all the procedural reasons for them. However, there is really only one reason and that is consumer safety, the safety of all the citizens who use the roadways that are filled by vehicles, produced by manufacturers in Canada and abroad, re-imported here, sold here and in part supplied by auto parts manufacturers here. Every one of those men and women deserves the comfort and the knowledge of assurance that comes with the fact that there would be laws compel such providers of vehicles to put on the marketplace a vehicle that would be safe for operation.

I have to reflect a little on this. A lot of the issues we have seen over the course of the last six to seven months have to deal with one particular company, but in fact we are talking about all automobile manufacturers. We are talking about the reasons why people have gone to the extreme levels of going to congressional hearings in the United States, other congressional hearings around the world and even parliamentary hearings in Canada. They want to get some satisfaction and some answers from the manufacturers that have put vehicles on the market that have proven to be defective in such a fashion that they have put the lives and safety of the users and those who share the road with them at risk.

Perhaps this would make it a little too personal, but it struck me very seriously the other day, even though I presented the bill many weeks ago. I was a very proud grandfather a couple of days ago when my daughter-in-law, Maccarena, my grandson and my son Massimo brought a second baby into the world, Leandro. He made Amedeo an older brother. I thought about all those kids like my two grandsons. If the House will allow this digression, one is watching this on television right now. He name is Matteo and he is 17 months old. He is looking at his other cousins, all of them under the age of 7, Isabella, Alessandro, Tazio, Gianluca and Stefano.

I am a legislator and I look at these grandchildren. They are so completely vulnerable, so completely dependent on what a driver might do on the road. Imagine the parents of all children, including those of my policy adviser who helped shape the bill. Simon and Leo are at home watching to see whether dad's member of Parliament is thinking about them when we are talking about vehicle safety and well they should as should all of us. Everything we do here has an implication and a consequence for those who are most vulnerable.

The reason we were motivated to come forward with this legislation was during our study of what was going on worldwide and in Canada with motor vehicles, it struck us that perhaps we had not given it that human touch. This human touch dictated something that had been going on since 2002. We are partisan. We talk about one government party doing one thing and another government party doing another, but in 2002 the Liberal Party initiated a study of the Motor Vehicle Safety Act because automobiles had changed so drastically since the last time the act had been amended.

Some people say that these vehicles on the roads are almost like rolling robots. They are completely computerized. They go beyond the ability of most drivers to determine anything that they can do. Other than pressing an accelerator, pressing a brake pedal and steering, there is very little else that can happen. There are computerized mechanisms inside the vehicle that will act in fashions that our drivers may be unable to handle.

Therefore, we decided to look at this Motor Vehicle Safety Act. We did not want to vilify Toyota even though it had been in the middle of hearings in the United States, here and worldwide and accepted to pay fines on the basis of the findings of the American congressional hearings. We wanted to see if we could bring manufacturers to the table to do what would be right for their customers, the consumers. We wanted to ensure that consumers would be protected against those who were indifferent to the issues in an aftermarket environment. In other words, once the vehicle is sold and it is in the hands of the drivers, companies walk away. Everything is a complaint, it is a quality issue, it is not a safety defect related issue, but some are.

What we propose to do is ensure that we bring into legislation a couple of very basic elements. The first is to give the Minister of Transport, who is the regulator of these vehicles, the legislative authority to call for, to receive, to analyze, to digest and then to act on the information associated with any one of these vehicles, whether they be in Canada or abroad. If they are a part of a company's fleet and there are complaints associated with those vehicles and they are safety-related, then they need to be reported to the Minister of Transport for action.

We lay out in the legislation a very thorough and specific methodology. We do not ask the minister to be willy-nilly, whimsical in his or her approach to what the complaints might be. However, we require a quarterly reporting mechanism by the manufacturers, through their dealer networks, to Transport Canada. Through this proposed legislation, we give the minister the authority to analyze these in the context of safety-related defects.

The second feature of the legislation is we provide a definition for “safety-related defect” that goes specifically to whether the problem is incurred while driving, or not, is associated with a preventable situation or an anticipated situation by the driver. If it is not, then it has nothing to do with the driver or the quality of the vehicle. It has everything to do with safety-related issues.

Having analyzed the information, and maybe requiring more, the minister can then, under the legislation, initiate a recall to get those vehicles off the road until such time as the manufacturer comes up with a solution to the problem and addresses it vigorously and in a timely fashion.

These two innovations do not currently exist in the Motor Vehicle Safety Act.

The Minister of Transport a little while ago said, in respect to Toyota specifically, that the Motor Vehicle Safety Act had a lot of good teeth and clubs in it and if the department found that a company was not compliant, it could engage in criminal proceedings. It seems that part was rhetorical. The Government of Canada and no minister can direct a criminal investigation. They can, if they have the will, ask some of the law enforcement authorities to investigate. We have seen that with the Prime Minister.

The government has not done that with Toyota or anyone else, in part because the legislation does not give the minister the authority that we think the minister ought to have. Right now, the minister and his department can attempt to influence a company to comply, to provide information and to provide other issues to give them a history of the vehicle's performance.

However, they cannot ask for anything. They cannot ask for the lists of the complaints received by the dealerships or by the company centrally. They cannot ask for accident reports, the nature of the injuries or the deaths that might have occurred. They cannot even talk about the level of the property damage. None of these things are currently inherent in the legislation. However, under the PEDAL act, the minister can demand those and more information if so required and then, through a very methodical process, initiate the recall.

Today, the minister has to hope that a company or manufacturer will accede to his request and influence to issue a recall or some such notice. One company has a very unique euphemism for a recall. It is called a voluntary product improvement notification. It essentially says, “You have a bad vehicle. We do not know what the problem is, but next time we call you, we will bring you in and we will solve the problem. Happy motoring”.

That company is now facing 100 class action suits in the United States alone. Fifty-nine deaths are attributed to the safety defects associated with the vehicles and entire fleets have been recalled. We want to get beyond that point. We wanted to make a very positive, immediate amendment related to technology in the legislation. The amendment involves the brake override system for all of those vehicles that have an electronically controlled throttle.

These are new terms and technologies. In the generation of cars that we had when I was much younger, we could become our own mechanics and fix our own vehicles, but we cannot override the commands in a computer-driven automobile. With the proposed legislation, we ensure that every manufacturer, as of a particular date, builds that into every vehicle that they put on the market. Some of them are already doing it voluntarily. Others are a little more recalcitrant and slower. We are telling them that, as of a particular date, they have to do that.

I know that you, Madam Speaker, will want to encourage all colleagues in the House to support legislation that is really proactive, because that is what this is. It does not say that the government must spend X number of dollars to do anything. It establishes a regime that gives the minister authority to call in the manufacturers, to demand information, to utilize that information, to urge them to do their recall and, if not, to issue a recall himself or herself.

It really gives the regulators a proactive role. It gives them the substance they need to ensure our roads are safe. It gives them the authority they need to ensure that consumers are well protected when they purchase vehicles in which they will trust their lives and the lives of their children and dependents. It goes further. It tells the manufacturers that this is coming down the road. It tells them to get ready for it, to be prepared and to be compliant.

Finally, it provides everybody with the parameters of what does not exist in the current Motor Vehicle Safety Act, and that is a definition for a safety-related defect. The legislation is very specific. It outlines what it is. It gives everybody the parameters under which to operate. Everybody can and ought to, in this instance, obey the law, especially the Minister of Transport.

Proactive Enforcement and Defect Accountability Legislation (PEDAL) ActPrivate Members' Business

5:45 p.m.

NDP

Jim Maloway NDP Elmwood—Transcona, MB

Madam Speaker, I want to congratulate my good friend in the Liberal Party for bringing forward his bill.

I am fairly sure that he would agree with me that the mat issue, while it may have provided some of the problem, is not the real problem here. People who have had the mats replaced have found that sudden acceleration still does occur.

I received some information from the American hearings and I am not sure whether the member is aware of it. It is important insurance information from State Farm. It indicates that when electronic throttle controls were first brought in on Camrys in 2002, the number of sudden acceleration cases just skyrocketed. In terms of the Toyota Corolla, when the electronic throttle was introduced in the 2005 model, once again the chart shows that sudden acceleration claims skyrocketed at that time.

I think I heard the member at least once or twice in the past make reference to the fact that he did not believe mats were the sole cause and that the electronic throttle control was really the issue. I think that is borne out by the fact that his bill would require a brake override. He is probably aware that, 20 years ago, Audi solved a similar problem by bringing in a brake override system, but that was before electronic throttle controls existed.

I wonder if the member has any comments on these points.

Proactive Enforcement and Defect Accountability Legislation (PEDAL) ActPrivate Members' Business

5:45 p.m.

Liberal

Joe Volpe Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON

Madam Speaker, I had indicated that I did not want to talk about a specific company. However, because the member has given us an indication of a very specific issue, yes, I have said in the past that I quite frankly do not believe this business of floor mats and sticky pedals, et cetera.

What is important in all of those issues is that there was an opportunity for companies to be preventive. They knew the problem was there. They saw the problem coming forward. My legislation, or hopefully our legislation, would indicate to everybody an early warning system where the company would have to go ahead and provide the information to the regulator quarterly so that there could be an objective assessment of the problems. Subject to assessment in a lab, in an environment where there could be scientific assessment of what is going on, the regulator could then make a judgment on whether the vehicle ought to be recalled and for what reason.

I think this is a winning situation for everybody. It would solve a lot of the litigation that could take place, that would take place, that is already taking place in many other areas, but most importantly, it would lead to safer vehicles, safer roads and greater safety for our consumers.

Proactive Enforcement and Defect Accountability Legislation (PEDAL) ActPrivate Members' Business

5:50 p.m.

NDP

The Acting Speaker NDP Denise Savoie

The hon. member for Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel has time to ask a very quick question.

Proactive Enforcement and Defect Accountability Legislation (PEDAL) ActPrivate Members' Business

5:50 p.m.

Bloc

Mario Laframboise Bloc Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC

Madam Speaker, in his bill, my colleague talks about brake override systems and wanting to add new measures. Brakes were a problem for Toyota. How did Toyota's problems influence my colleague's decision to introduce this bill?

Proactive Enforcement and Defect Accountability Legislation (PEDAL) ActPrivate Members' Business

5:50 p.m.

Liberal

Joe Volpe Liberal Eglinton—Lawrence, ON

Madam Speaker, I do not want to be a consultant or adviser to Toyota. I want to make sure that Toyota and other manufacturers will comply with the legislation that is available.

The measure to which my colleague refers is an interim one, to act as a flag for everybody. As the member for Elmwood—Transcona pointed out, it has been noticed for the last 20 years, and as vehicles become more and more computerized, that this is one of the things that needs to be done. There has to be a brake override system so that in the event of unintended, uncontrolled acceleration, a mechanism will stop the vehicle.

Some of the examples we have seen through the email traffic between Transport Canada and Toyota suggest that not only were all the other excuses simply that, excuses, but a brake override system might have solved the problem. This is one suggestion. The other one, as I said, is the constant reporting.

Proactive Enforcement and Defect Accountability Legislation (PEDAL) ActPrivate Members' Business

5:50 p.m.

Fort McMurray—Athabasca Alberta

Conservative

Brian Jean ConservativeParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Transport

Madam Speaker, I would first like to congratulate the previous speaker, the member for Eglinton—Lawrence, on the birth of another grandchild. I know he is very much a family man. He has indicated that many times in committee. Not only is he a very hard-working MP, but I know that he holds his family very close in his mind all the time when he is here. My congratulations to him.

My congratulations in relation to his proposal on this particular act. The Motor Vehicle Safety Act first came into effect some time ago, in 1971. It established comprehensive minimum safety standards for the design and performance of motor vehicles and motor vehicle equipment manufactured or imported for use in Canada.

It also invoked a regime of self-governance on the part of vehicle and equipment manufacturers that was very similar to the motor vehicle safety act in the United States. Obviously our borders are connected, our manufacturers are connected, and many citizens of both countries intermingle. As a result of that, this regime works well.

The regime itself is commonly called “self-certification” and was harmonized from the beginning with the United States in recognition especially of our close trading relationship and of the many manufacturing jobs we have producing motor vehicles in this country, especially in the province of Ontario.

This actually reduces the cost, ultimately, to Canadian consumers as a result of this intermingling and the need not to retool or to rejig particular items on vehicles, and we can make sure that the safety remains consistent because the roadways, quite frankly, connect.

Notwithstanding this self-certification regime, the act also requires an oversight audit and enforcement function provided by a government body, which was delegated by Parliament to Transport Canada.

Transport Canada has been effective in ensuring that companies remedy safety-related defects or non-compliances with safety standards under the Motor Vehicle Safety Act through well-established audit and enforcement protocols. This is important because it shows that Transport Canada's obligation is to follow up on these things and to make sure that an audit is being done regarding the issues.

The safety enforcement regime established under the act actually consists of investigation of defects and collisions, compliance audits and testing, enforcement, and oversight on notification of defects. So it is quite inclusive.

To date, the biggest recall in Canada was actually not the recent recall, but the recall on the ignition switch on Ford models, years 1988 to 1993. This recall actually involved 834,368 vehicles. This recall was necessary because a short circuit could have developed in the ignition switch, and as a result, could have led to overheating and ultimately a fire, and actually a fire right in the steering column itself. So it was a very important recall.

The second biggest recall is again not this one, but involved a seat belt manufactured by Takata. If we add up all of the vehicles that use that particular seat belt, over 770,000 units were involved in that recall.

The ABS plastic front seat belt button actually could have broken, allowing pieces to fall within the assembly. Then, as we can imagine, when someone tried to get out of the assembly, if those plastic pieces were in there, they would actually jam the mechanism and would not allow the person out, or indeed would not allow it to click in place, in the first place.

There were some real serious problems with that, because it could have led to personal injury or even death in the case of water being involved or fire. That was the second biggest recall.

The third biggest recall involved almost 500,000 Ford vehicles affected by a speed control deactivation switch potential failure, very similar to the case at hand here, at least in terms of the speed and the inability, we have discovered, in relation to some cases where the accelerator will actually stick. The switch could have overheated, smoked or burned, potentially resulting in an under-hood fire in that particular case.

Those are the top three that have happened in Canada.

It is also important to note that Transport Canada in these particular cases was the leader in North America. As a result of these investigations and ensuing conversations, Transport Canada actually pressed the manufacturers to launch recall campaigns and those recalls were later extended to our American friends to the south where millions of vehicles were involved. Transport Canada has been the lead on many of these recalls in North America and has been quite effective in keeping Canadians safe.

The overwhelming majority of Transport Canada's defect investigations, it should be noted, are based on consumer complaints. In times past, as mentioned by the previous speaker, if a manufacturer detected a safety-related defect, it had a legal obligation under the Motor Vehicle Safety Act to notify Transport Canada and consumers of the defect. That is right, not just the regulator but the people who own or bought the car. Manufacturers have the obligation to notify them.

Transport Canada receives complaints concerning all makes and models of vehicles, Toyota and all others, and reviews the complaints for potential safety issues that may affect various vehicle systems. Likewise, we have records of acceleration problems for a very large number of makes, brands and models of vehicles, and the frequency of incidents relating to Toyota specifically, which is, of course, what brings us here today with this bill, is very typical of that industry as a whole.

It is interesting to recognize that Toyota's safety recalls and the complaints of sudden acceleration are no different proportionally than for other car manufacturers that currently do business in Canada. In 2009, Transport Canada received 1,300 complaints on all issues.

Transport Canada also communicates regularly with the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration to determine if it is studying issues similar to those we might be investigating. We work well with our neighbours to make sure that we do not duplicate efforts and actually work together to get to the bottom of the issue, which is to keep road users and vehicle users in North America safe. Ours, of course, is to keep Canadians safe.

Transport Canada, as I said, has received a number of consumer complaints regarding acceleration issues and was already investigating the floor mat issue when the floor mat recall was announced by Toyota. It already was in the middle of investigating that to determine exactly what was taking place.

Transport Canada first heard about the sticking accelerator pedal issue from Toyota on January 21, 2010. That is right, January 21, 2010, was the first time that Transport Canada was advised by Toyota that it would be recalling certain models to correct the defect, which it indicated at that time to Transport Canada there was.

In the past four years, one acceleration-related Toyota case was brought to Transport Canada's attention by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. In fact, Transport Canada officials continue to gather information on this particular case on a priority basis to assess whether Toyota Canada's actions with respect to the sticking gas pedal recall are compliant with Motor Vehicle Safety Act requirements.

Failure by Toyota to issue the notice would mean the company did not meet its obligations under the act. This could expose the company to the penalties contained within the act. Whether the delay was unreasonable in Toyota notifying the regulator, of course, would be up to a court.

Proactive Enforcement and Defect Accountability Legislation (PEDAL) ActPrivate Members' Business

6 p.m.

Bloc

Mario Laframboise Bloc Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC

Madam Speaker, I am pleased to speak to Bill C-511, which I have read.

We have an interest in this bill introduced by our Liberal colleague. We will have to work hard on this bill in committee. The current situation in the automobile industry is very complex. There are laws that apply, which the parliamentary secretary mentioned. Transport Canada reviews the complaints it receives from the public. Under current legislation, when a manufacturer finds a defect that could put the safety of the driver or the passengers at risk, the manufacturer is required to report that to Transport Canada. That is where delays can occur.

The Toyota example has been mentioned, but it could apply to any other company. Toyota still has an excellent reputation. Polls show that people who own a Toyota are very satisfied. Some of them are probably watching us. I do not think the future of Toyota is in danger.

Toyota knew about the defect in October and Transport Canada became aware of it in January. There was a delay there. Toyota says it was three months, but it is closer to four months. Whatever the number, there was still a significant delay from the time that Toyota received complaints from owners and the time that Transport Canada became aware of the defect. The majority of the owners' complaints were not sent to Transport Canada but to the dealerships that sold the vehicle.

The parliamentary secretary said that it was a case of self-regulation. Self-regulation means that the dealership must check for defects. If that is the case, it must be reported to Transport Canada. If there is no defect, the dealership can deal with any issues without informing Transport Canada and without a recall.

Toyota is based in Japan, where it has a research centre. Toyota Canada, which is an independent company, makes recommendations, receives a complaint, forwards it to senior management in North America and then passes it on to Japan. The company told us that it waits to see whether or not there are any similar complaints, which takes a few weeks.

In committee, I wondered why the company did not send all the complaints it received to Transport Canada. When we asked Transport Canada, we were told that there were 5,000 vehicle manufacturers, importers and distributors. We tend to think there are only a few companies that sell vehicles, but that is not true. There are all sorts of vehicles. Some have right-hand drive, others, left-hand drive, and so on. Transport Canada is responsible for all these vehicles. Self-regulation means that when these companies know that there is a problem, a defect, they are required to notify Transport Canada.

With new technologies, this takes time. Toyota's problem had to do with its electronic braking technology. It took several months for Toyota to discover the defect and make the famous recalls.

If I were logical and I asked every distributor and dealer to send Transport Canada a copy of the complaints it received, Transport Canada would need to have enough staff to analyze those complaints. Knowing that Toyota's research centres in Canada and the United States are not up to snuff and that the company has to refer the problem to its high-tech research centre in Japan, we can understand the time lag.

I do not mean to blame Toyota. There are also companies in Korea and other countries; the automotive industry is a global one. American companies that sell cars in other countries are going to go through the same thing.

How can we create a bill guaranteeing owners that the problem will be detected quickly and recalls issued accordingly?

Toyota said that it undertook a corporate reorganization. The process will be easier and faster as a result, but as the company president said, Toyota cannot guarantee that we will get an answer in a week. These analyses have to be done. Section 10 reads as follows:

A company that manufactures, sells or imports...shall, on becoming aware of a defect...that affects or is likely to affect...safety...cause notice of the defect to be given in the prescribed manner to...the Minister—

The company has to notify Transport Canada. The bill retains “safety-related defect” and provides a definition of “safety-related defect” in clause 3. This is the defect principle. There has to be a defect before the company notifies Transport Canada and issues recalls.

Transport Canada told us that the United States has another way of doing things. The company is required to report all defects, not just defects found in the United States. They have to report all defects in all of their models around the world. That is a requirement. We do not have that in Canada. I do not see any such measure in this bill. If all defects found in a particular make of car in other countries were reported to Transport Canada, we would be more aware of what is going on in Canada and could launch investigations. Such measures are not in this bill.

That is why we agree with the bill in principle. However, the committee needs to study it. We have to bring in experts and figure out our own way to protect Quebeckers and Canadians, who trust their automakers. They love their cars. Many have bought the same make for years. They do not switch to another make just because an issue pops up once.

However, it is important to point out that we have been lucky that nobody has died. People in the United States were not so lucky; some people there died. We cannot let this kind of situation go on knowing that it can take over 90 days to report a defect. Transport Canada has to intervene more quickly.

Naturally, I would like all defects in a given company's products or in a particular make of car to be reported to Transport Canada. I would like that to be a requirement, as it is in the United States. Transport Canada will definitely receive more reports. We have to ensure that Transport Canada has the tools and human resources it needs.

Transport Canada openly stated that it is the expert when it comes to analyzing driving systems in winter conditions. That is great. We are good at that, but I think the department should also be an expert when it comes to summer driving, when the temperature rises. The same applies to spring and fall, when it rains. That is what makes this so complex.

Sometimes we try to solve problems by using good measures, but passing legislation is not always enough. Laws were in place, and yet this still happened. We must ensure that Transport Canada has all the necessary personnel and equipment. I can understand why self-regulation began in 1971. It is the companies themselves that have the technology and the know-how to discover defects. If a government had to have the same technology as every automotive manufacturer, just imagine the research centre that the Canadian government would need. It could build its own cars and start a new line. A balance must be struck.

I thank my hon. colleague from Eglinton—Lawrence for introducing this bill. We would like to see it improved in committee, as usual, although I hope it will not be like today, because that was awful.