House of Commons Hansard #122 of the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was information.

Topics

Situation in EgyptEmergency Debate

6:50 p.m.

Liberal

Geoff Regan Liberal Halifax West, NS

Madam Speaker, I, too, want to thank the member for Toronto Centre for asking for this emergency debate. I associate myself with his comments, particularly those about how we, as a country, must stand for dignity in the world and for human rights and freedom.

It was inspiring to watch peaceful demonstrations, but it has been very disturbing to see violence lately. I was at a protest Sunday in Halifax, where Muslims and Christians stood side by side saying that they needed to have peace, change, human rights and democracy.

What advice does my hon. friend have for them?

Situation in EgyptEmergency Debate

6:50 p.m.

Liberal

Yasmin Ratansi Liberal Don Valley East, ON

Madam Speaker, I would refer back to the historical experience with living in pluralism. Egypt has been the cradle of three monotheistic faiths and those faiths have always lived in harmony. It takes external forces to create disharmony.

The example the member has given is the will of the Egyptian people to ensure a peaceful solution and to ensure that this does not get into a religious polarization of people.

Situation in EgyptEmergency Debate

6:50 p.m.

Pontiac Québec

Conservative

Lawrence Cannon ConservativeMinister of Foreign Affairs

Madam Speaker, over the past few days, the eyes of the world have focused on Liberation Square in the capital of Egypt. Events unfolding in Cairo could have a profound effect on the Middle East and the entire world.

Our government's priority is, of course, the safety of Canadians who are in Egypt. That is why we took swift action to organize an air evacuation of those who wanted to leave the region. These measures will be deployed as long as they are required. My colleague will describe in more detail the measures we have made available to Canadians.

This evening we are particularly disappointed and concerned that the protests that began with hope, order and enthusiasm are now fraught with violence, havoc and fear.

A few hours ago, live ammunition was used against Egyptian citizens. At least one person has been killed and many hundreds more have been wounded, some seriously.

Egypt, a nation of 80 million people with an ancient civilization, has long been a moderate leader of the Arab, African and Muslim worlds, and an important partner in the Middle East peace process, based on its long-standing peace treaty and co-operation on security matters with Israel. It is also home to the Suez Canal, a vital shipping route. What happens in Egypt therefore has major implications for other countries of the region, most especially Israel, for the world economy and for international security including the security of Canadians.

This morning I spoke to my Egyptian counterpart, foreign minister Aboul Gheit. Our deep and strong relationship with Egypt allows us to be frank with each other as friends should be. In our conversation this morning, I expressed Canada's concern about the situation in Egypt and our desire to see a peaceful and meaningful transition to democracy. I also reiterated the importance that Canada and the world place on the stability of Egypt and its region.

In discussions with my colleague, now and in the past, I have not hesitated to raise Canada's ongoing concerns with the situation of human rights in Egypt. We have urged Egypt to improve respect for human rights, in particular freedom of expression and freedom of association. We have raised concerns about the continuing application of Egypt's state of emergency, which is still in force after 30 years, and the use of torture and arbitrary detention by Egyptian security forces. We have also encouraged political reforms in order to promote democratic development and respect for the rule of law in Egypt, including the holding of free and fair parliamentary elections with international observers.

After the political opening of 2005, which saw the introduction of multi-candidate presidential and parliamentary elections in Egypt, the following years saw a marked setback on human rights and democratic development. Canada has expressed concern on several occasions in that regard. In particular, we conveyed our disappointment at the parliamentary elections in November and December 2010 that saw the ruling national democratic party win over 80% of the available seats and a loss of most of the opposition seats amidst allegations of massive vote fraud and low voter turnout. A lack of international observers surely contributed to the lack of credibility of the outcome.

These elections represented a setback for democratic reform and modernization in Egypt and a failure by its government to respond to the legitimate aspirations of the Egyptian people for a greater voice in the running of their government. There is no doubt that these decisions by the Egyptian government fed the frustration of the Egyptian people.

The results of the latest parliamentary elections, the absence of political reform and the slow pace of economic progress, the increase in the price of food, and the bleak future for youth led to the protests that began on January 25. There is no doubt that the example of Tunisia, where the people are experiencing the same frustrations, also inspired the Egyptian protests. However, the priority must now be to put an end to the violence, and I urge the Egyptian authorities to respond with restraint during these tense times.

We urge Egypt to respect freedom of association and freedom of movement for all political actors. There, however, have been disturbing reports of looting, as well as prison breakouts and we urge the Egyptian authorities to respond to these incidents and to safeguard the security and the property of all of the people in Egypt.

The large-scale protests in many parts of Egypt have demonstrated the desire of the Egyptian people for greater political freedom and economic reform. The people of Egypt are claiming what people all around the world want and what we as Canadians take for granted: freedom, democracy, human rights and the rule of law and the chance at a better life.

The demonstrators have also shown their commitment to bringing about political and economic reform through peaceful protest, not by taking up arms or by terrorism. They should be commended for peacefully expressing their views and their voices heard.

Other darker forces, however, are at work on Liberation Square and that is why calm and order must be restored as quickly as possible. We all know that the new social networking media, at the heart of popular movements around the world, is transforming the way societies everywhere communicate and share information.

It is increasingly important for people everywhere to be connected to the Internet, for the governments to permit access. We are, therefore, disturbed by interruptions to Internet services in Egypt and the blocking of social networking websites. This not only restricts access to information and communication by the people of Egypt, but it hampers emergency efforts to provide consular services to foreign nationals in Egypt.

We are also troubled by the forced closing of some news media. We call on the Egyptian government to ensure freedom of expression by unblocking websites and not interfering in the free dissemination of information.

We have noted President Mubarak's promise to leave office next September and the appointment of a vice-president, a new prime minister and a new council of ministers, who have been asked to undertake economic reforms. This new political team will be judged on its response to the legitimate demands of the Egyptian people.

However, more clearly needs to be done in order to address the long outstanding need of Egypt for real and meaningful political and economic reform. Putting on a coat of paint to cover the cracks in the wall will not satisfy the Egyptian people's demand for change.

The Government of Canada has long engaged Egypt and other governments in the region on the need to bring about reform. Democratic development is a priority of Canada's foreign policy. Democratic development advances Canada's interest because it offers the best chance for long-term stability, prosperity and the protection of human rights.

Canada is committed to strengthening civil society and democratic institutions and processes, including political parties and independent media, throughout the world so that people can have control over the decisions that affect their daily lives. With this same determination and hope, today, we are asking President Mubarak and the new Egyptian government to strengthen the foundations of democracy, dialogue and co-operation.

It is not up to Canada to decide who should govern tomorrow's Egypt. Today, the people of Egypt are telling us, in the most active and courageous way possible, that they finally want to choose leaders who will bring them prosperity, justice and safety. We do no hesitate to raise our voices, loudly and clearly, in this chamber to say that we hope that Egypt's future leaders will actively devote themselves to implementing reforms that will meet the needs and aspirations of the Egyptian people.

Canada wants to see a transition towards greater democracy and freedom in Egypt, with respect for human rights and the rule of law. There needs to be a clear timetable for a new parliamentary election with international observers.

The 2010 parliamentary election lacked credibility and deprived the people of Egypt of an elected and democratic opposition as a means of peaceful political expression and participation in the governing of their country. The current situation is, at least in part, a direct result of this failure to respect the democratic process.

A true democratic transition in Egypt will require institutional reforms. For example, it will require the establishment of a credible and non-partisan elections commission to run the elections, as we have here in Canada. Such an elections commission would oversee the preparations for an election, which should reflect international standards for transparency and integrity.

The international community will no doubt be willing to assist by providing election observers and technical assistance.

Egypt also needs to make constitutional reforms. These could include stronger guarantees for human rights, in particular, freedom of expression and freedom of association, coupled with the strengthening of the independence of the judiciary.

The state of emergency that Egypt has been living in for 30 years now, which has resulted in much injustice and inequality, must soon be lifted. As I was assured by the Egyptian minister of foreign affairs this morning, the rules governing the registration of presidential candidates are to be revised so that as many people as possible can run in the September election.

It would also be beneficial to set fixed terms for the president and vice-president.

However, an election must not be confused with democracy. Although a fair and equitable election process is certainly essential to building a democracy, only a stable and honest government can ensure the sustainability of democratic principles.

In order for us, here in Canada, to recognize and support the future Egyptian government, it must meet four basic conditions: first, it must respect freedom, democracy and human rights, particularly the rights of women; second, it must recognize the State of Israel; third, it must adhere to existing peace treaties; and fourth, it must respect international law.

Canada urges Egypt's government to heed the courageous voice of the Egyptian people, seize the moment and turn it into an opportunity for long overdue democratic and economic reform that will allow Egypt to maintain its place as a leader among Arab, African and Muslim states.

Situation in EgyptEmergency Debate

7:05 p.m.

Liberal

Bob Rae Liberal Toronto Centre, ON

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the minister's intervention tonight. I know it was not the first choice of the government to have the debate tonight, but I appreciate his being here and I appreciate the level of detail he provided us with.

Again, in the spirit of the evening, I know there is a reluctance on the part of the government in its repeated statements to respond to the question as to whether or not Mr. Mubarak should go, but I wonder if he would not agree with me that what we do know now as a result of what happened today is that the statement President Mubarak made last night does not appear to be sufficient to bring peace and stability and the transition all of us have been looking for.

Situation in EgyptEmergency Debate

7:05 p.m.

Conservative

Lawrence Cannon Conservative Pontiac, QC

Mr. Speaker, the present situation in Egypt is extremely troublesome. The objectives that have been fixed, or at least have been placed there, do not seem at this moment to be going in that direction. Obviously, I repeat what I mentioned before that we do believe that a new government must espouse the fundamental principles of democracy, freedom of rights and freedom of expression, and the promotion of human rights. Undeniably, and I say this to my colleague from the Liberal Party, it is extremely important that the Egyptians themselves determine how that new government is going to be formed and what institutions need to be built so that democracy will indeed prevail there.

Situation in EgyptEmergency Debate

7:05 p.m.

NDP

Paul Dewar NDP Ottawa Centre, ON

Mr. Speaker, there is a definite problem with how the west is dealing with this in some manner because of the past record. We all know that for 30 years Canada and the United States were supportive of the regime, including the army. Canada has sold arms to Egypt. We know that.

However, I think that what people are waiting for the government to say very clearly and unequivocally, as was said by President Obama, is that the transfer of power should happen now. What is absolutely clear from that statement is the signal for Mr. Mubarak to resign and leave now.

I am wondering if the minister could please clarify that. If he cannot clarify that, could he tell us why he cannot clarify it and join other nations and world leaders who have done so, frankly?

Situation in EgyptEmergency Debate

7:05 p.m.

Conservative

Lawrence Cannon Conservative Pontiac, QC

Mr. Speaker, I want to reiterate what I said at the outset. It is incumbent upon the Egyptians themselves to choose the next government and to do that in a peaceful manner and to transition into democracy and build democratic institutions.

I was informed that a couple of political parties in Egypt have now acknowledged and responded favourably to the announcements made yesterday by President Mubarak. There remain some political parties that are outside the process for the time being, but again, it is not Canada's role to tell the Egyptians what to do, particularly in terms of how they should go about choosing a new leader.

Suffice it to say, we think it is extremely important for Egypt to have a new government and that it be done in a peaceful and durable fashion as much as possible.

Situation in EgyptEmergency Debate

7:10 p.m.

Nepean—Carleton Ontario

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre ConservativeParliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and to the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs

Mr. Speaker, it is my view that whatever the outcome of this process set in motion, we must consistently call upon the Egyptian government to continue to recognize the state of Israel, to honour past peace agreements, and to respect religious minorities, including Coptic Christians who have been mercilessly persecuted by extremists in that country.

I wonder if the minister would join with me in affirming that Canada would call upon Egypt to continue to recognize Israel regardless of the outcome of the political changes under way right now, and to honour previously signed agreements for peace and to protect the rights and safety of religious minorities, including Coptic Christians.

Situation in EgyptEmergency Debate

7:10 p.m.

Conservative

Lawrence Cannon Conservative Pontiac, QC

Mr. Speaker, my colleague is absolutely right. We are very supportive. My colleague, the Minister of Citizenship, Immigration and Multiculturalism, as a matter of fact, was very supportive of the Coptic Christian community when that terrible explosion took place a couple of weeks ago.

In terms of stability in the region, it is incumbent and extremely important, and that is why in the few moments I had to speak in the House I insisted, first, that there be respect for liberty, democracy and human rights, but at the same time that the new government must recognize the state of Israel. The peace agreements already in existence must also be recognized by a new government. Indeed, that government needs to respect the international community's will.

Situation in EgyptEmergency Debate

7:10 p.m.

Liberal

Geoff Regan Liberal Halifax West, NS

Mr. Speaker, it has been encouraging to see the military not intervene in the last few days. Today it was a bit worrisome in that there was violence and no one intervened to stop it. It is not clear to me exactly to what degree the military is an independent force in the government right now in Egypt, but I am wondering what our government is saying to the Egyptian government about the role the military should play. I say this because it seems to me it is very important that the military plays a role that is peaceful and that it encourages and allows peaceful demonstration, which it seemed to be doing for a while. However, I was concerned to read that the leader of the military suggested that it was time for these protests to end soon, or something to that effect, which I just read a few minutes ago. If that report is correct, I am worried about where this is going.

Therefore, I am asking what our government's message would be to the Egyptian government, and to the military itself in Egypt, on what the military should do.

Situation in EgyptEmergency Debate

7:10 p.m.

Conservative

Lawrence Cannon Conservative Pontiac, QC

Mr. Speaker, I want to reassure my colleague that when I spoke with my counterpart this morning, Ahmed Aboul Gheit, the minister of foreign affairs, I did indicate to him what Canada's position was, including, obviously, the call for calm and non-violent protests and demonstrations. The minister was very concerned, as a matter of fact, as we spoke that clashes and demonstrations were taking place. He too wished that his countrymen would heed the advice for, and move to bring forward, the reforms we are all speaking about.

No one I have spoken to on this file is supportive of any kind of clash. They think these demonstrations are legitimate, and they are calling for a new beginning in Egypt. I think all those moderate and likeminded people I know in Egypt are calling for exactly the same thing.

Situation in EgyptEmergency Debate

7:10 p.m.

NDP

Claude Gravelle NDP Nickel Belt, ON

Mr. Speaker, the last time we had an evacuation from the Middle East, I believe it was from Lebanon, where we evacuated Canadians. Now we are evacuating Canadians from Egypt but are charging them a fee for their evacuation.

Would the hon. minister be willing to tell this House tonight that the government is going to cancel this policy of charging Egyptian Canadians for their evacuation and assure us that every Canadian will be evacuated from Egypt regardless of the thickness of his or her wallet.

Situation in EgyptEmergency Debate

7:15 p.m.

Conservative

Lawrence Cannon Conservative Pontiac, QC

Mr. Speaker, I will reassure my colleague that we will not change our policy. We have put in place a policy that is similar, indeed, to the policies of the United States and other countries. It is a policy that provides for cost recovery. We have estimated that the cost of these flights from Cairo, or even the flight that left today from Alexandria, to destinations in Europe is about $400 per person. This is what we have asked for in terms of cost recovery. We have not had any objections to this policy from the close to the 400 Canadians who have been evacuated on a voluntary basis.

Situation in EgyptEmergency Debate

7:15 p.m.

Bloc

Jean Dorion Bloc Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC

Mr. Speaker, my thoughts turn first to our constituents of Egyptian origin and to the immigrants, naturalized citizens and people of Egyptian descent who live in Quebec and Canada. Their days are filled with anxiety because violence has marked the events in Egypt since they began. And today it worsened as supporters of the Hosni Mubarak regime began to systematically attack protestors.

We cannot forget that the misfortunes of the Egyptian people, which are spurring the uprising we have been witnessing for over a week, go back much further than these last few weeks. For a number of decades, the Egyptian people have been living under regimes that are dedicated to making a small number of people rich and that are known for their authoritarianism and widespread violation of basic human rights. This is especially true of the current regime of President Hosni Mubarak.

The power of Mubarak's regime is usurped power. Everyone knows that Egypt's elections are rigged, to the point where during the latest election, the majority of the credible opponents decided not to run, in some instances in the first round and in many other cases in the second round, because they saw that the election had been completely rigged.

The Mubarak regime is also known for its ongoing violations of basic human rights: arbitrary detention, torture and censorship. Clearly, that could not last forever. After the Tunisian uprising that led to the fall of President Ben Ali, Egypt exploded. The protestors oppose the regime of Mubarak, a dictator who has ruled since 1981 and is now aging and ill. Hosni Mubarak had to go overseas for several weeks in 2010 for an operation, and with the approach of the 2011 presidential election, the question of his successor was on everyone's minds. Of course, those in power could not accept the possibility of losing that power and considered offering President Mubarak's son to the Egyptian people—imposing him, in fact. But now the anger in Egypt is no longer directed solely at the standard of living. It is also directed at those in power because the people recognize that abuse of power is largely to blame for the country's problems, be they economic or otherwise.

In recent months, tensions had risen in this country of 83 million people, triggered specifically by price increases and restrictions on basic commodities. Some 40% of the Egyptian people live on less than $2 a day. The unemployment rate among young people is especially high, as in Tunisia. Egypt's relative underdevelopment can be explained, at least in part, by a remarkably inadequate education system. According to the World Bank, in 2003, only 32% of young Egyptians had earned a bachelor's degree.

Egypt's national statistics office has calculated that 73,000 new university places will have to be created each year for the next 15 years just to maintain the graduation rates.

Half of the Egyptian population is under the age of 24, and this explosive demographic situation is having a serious impact on the country's economy. Furthermore, with 94.5% of the country covered by desert, understandably, population density in Egypt's populated areas is just about the highest in the world.

This is not the time or place to give a full chronology of all of the events in recent days, but I would like to go back to February 1, 2011, when, after a series of non-stop demonstrations, the army announced through a spokesperson that it agreed that the Egyptian people's demands were legitimate and said it would not use any force against the demonstrators. That was definitely a turning point. According to the media, at least 250,000 Egyptians marched on Liberation Square in Cairo, in the largest demonstration since the beginning of the revolt against President Mubarak's regime.

Yesterday Mubarak announced that he would not run again, but that he would remain in power until the presidential election in September 2011. However, a spokesperson for the Egyptian army asked Egyptians, particularly young people, to stop demonstrating. The spokesperson said that they had gotten their message across and that their demands had been heard.

But over the course of the day, we saw that they would not allow themselves to be discouraged by that kind of admonition. Unfortunately, Mubarak's supporters reacted violently today. Anti-Mubarak protesters committed very violent acts, and there are concerns that this new situation could radicalize the positions, although the army has called for an end to the protests. Reporters and cameramen—even some members of the Quebec media are there—who were covering the violence in the heart of the capital have been threatened themselves and have, of course, described a very tense climate. Agence France-Presse spoke of over 500 injured today in the protests, and there is some fear that that number will be even higher this evening.

The Bloc Québécois's position on the current situation in Egypt can be summed up as follows. First, the people of Egypt have spoken out against President Hosni Mubarak. Egyptians are calling for their president to step down. The trust is no longer there—if it ever was—between the people of Egypt and their government. President Mubarak is no longer the right person for the job. In light of all of this, we cannot simply say, like the Minister of Foreign Affairs said earlier, is that it is not our role to decide who should run Egypt. We cannot simply say that what is going on in Egypt is not our business. That kind of reasoning no longer works these days.

In recent decades, the Canadian government has broken that taboo several times. Members will recall the very positive role played by the Mulroney government in the fight against the apartheid regime in South Africa, for example. We cannot simply say that this has nothing to do with us and that it is up to them to decide.

The people in the streets of Egypt have spoken: they do not want the status quo. They want freedom.

We have seen thousands of Egyptians challenge the authoritarianism of their regime in recent weeks in order to claim their due rights and freedoms.

The Bloc Québécois will always stand behind those fighting for freedom. Freedom is a universal and inalienable right. Democracy and the rule of law are the natural expression of a free society.

We strongly condemn repression of peaceful demonstrations. We condemn the Internet censorship imposed by the government on the Egyptian people. The free circulation of information is a fundamental condition of democracy and liberty in a country. The Egyptian government must lift the censorship on the Internet sites it recently banned. Freedom of information is not negotiable.

Finally, we feel that a swift and peaceful transition to a democratic and free regime must be initiated quickly and peacefully.

For that reason, we believe Hosni Mubarak has to leave and, to get him to leave, democratic countries must join forces to put pressure on the Egyptian government. Since it was supported for so many decades, we think that an interim government and president should be appointed with the consent of the key parties. Then, free, multi-party, fair and transparent elections have to be held as soon as possible.

The Bloc Québécois defends the idea of freedom for all peoples, but it also defends the responsibilities that come with that freedom. The outcome of the political battle must not be a victory for extremists, who would, in turn, deny the Egyptian people the freedom and democracy to which they are entitled. We want to see an Egyptian government that restores the people's trust in their government and responds to the aspirations of the Egyptians.

In other words, any new government will have to ensure Egyptians' freedoms, religious freedom in particular since Christians in Egypt have suffered many humiliations and injustices these past decades.

That government will also have to ensure stability in the region by maintaining diplomatic relations with its neighbours and will have to recognize the State of Israel's right to exist. None of that can be achieved as long as the Egyptian people rightly feel that all their freedoms have been taken away.

In closing, Hosni Mubarak has to leave. We very easily stand behind the message the U.S. government sent him today, that the transition must begin immediately.

Situation in EgyptEmergency Debate

7:30 p.m.

NDP

Paul Dewar NDP Ottawa Centre, ON

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank my colleague and the Bloc.

The member has been clear on the need for Mr. Mubarak to leave. We have been hearing this in the streets since January 25. Leaders of countries in Europe and elsewhere have said unequivocally that there needs to be a transition into a new government. In order to do that, the present regime needs to exit.

One of the problems Canadians have, and I share in their frustration, is that the Canadian government has not been clear and declarative. Tonight we heard the Minister of Foreign Affairs say what we have said from the beginning, that the election should not be seen as legitimate and re-run. We welcome that. In the end, the Canadian government needs to be declarative. It needs to say that it is time for Mr. Mubarak to go, simply because we have supported that regime for 30 years. We need to be clear that if we want long-term stability, then the person who has caused the uprising needs to leave.

Perhaps the member could comment on why he thinks the government has not been declarative. Why does he think it is important for the government to be declarative as to what should happen with President Mubarak?

Situation in EgyptEmergency Debate

7:30 p.m.

Bloc

Jean Dorion Bloc Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank my colleague for his question. It is somewhat surprising to see that the Canadian government is dragging its feet in saying what other western governments have said so decisively, which is that the transition must happen immediately.

President Obama made a statement in which he called for the transition to be organized immediately. He called for an open, transparent, fair and multi-party election. We have learned from WikiLeaks that over the past two years the American government has exerted some clear pressure, behind closed doors, on the Mubarak government to put an end to abusive practices, particularly in terms of human rights and elections.

France's President Sarkozy has also made demands similar to those of President Obama. It is very surprising that Canada is not following suit. At the same time, it should be said that Canada's right-wing government has relatively authoritarian tendencies, which could easily lead to a certain complacency towards a regime like that of Hosni Mubarak.

Situation in EgyptEmergency Debate

7:30 p.m.

NDP

Paul Dewar NDP Ottawa Centre, ON

Mr. Speaker, I rise today to debate the situation in Egypt. As we know, on January 25 things changed in Egypt, and we are still trying to understand the effects of that change. Clearly, things are changing by the minute.

On January 24, President Mubarak was in charge of Egypt. On January 25, the people of Egypt were in charge of Egypt. That continues today to be the dynamic. It is the people of Egypt who are charting the course for the future of that country.

It is up to us, as those who support democratic aspirations, to be declarative that we support the people who have the courage and decided to overthrow a regime in a peaceful manner, a president who has been a tyrant for over 30 years. However, it is of concern that it is done in a way that represents the best interests of the people of Egypt, which is being seen today, and whether the rest of the world will support the intentions of the people who have decided they want to change the power structure within the country.

It is important that we be declarative, that we take a position. Our party at the outset was very clear. We said a number of things, which I will enumerate. We said that the election in November 2010 should clearly be re-run. We said that the emergency laws should be lifted. We said that it was important that all legitimate political parties be recognized and candidates for the presidential election in September be recognized as well. We also said that it was important that Canada take a position.

Sadly, at the time, we initially heard the government say that it wanted everyone to remain calm on both sides. Clearly, it was not in tune with what was going on because at that moment only one party was engaged in violence, which consisted of the security forces of Egypt that were using water cannons and tear gas against the population. Frankly, we all were concerned that might escalate.

It was a little tone deaf, frankly, when the government said that it wanted both sides to remain calm when only one side was using violent means. Thankfully, things did calm down. We saw the people amass in what is known now by everyone as Liberation Square. There was an acquiescence by security forces and the military did not intervene or instigate any form of intimidation against the people, notwithstanding that the regime was establishing curfew laws and edicts.

It is with hope and some concern that we watch what is happening. Developments in Egypt today have deepened our concern and the concerns for the safety of the protestors. Let us be clear. President Mubarak's insistence to delay his departure from power, as we heard last night, has contributed to further violence and destabilization, as we saw today. It is clear that for the sake of his country and regional stability, he must bow to the demands of the Egyptian people and immediately relinquish the position of president.

That is why we, unequivocally, condemn the use of violence against the peaceful and democratic demands of the Egyptian people. The alleged involvement of the regime in organizing the crackdown is completely unacceptable.

What do Egyptian protestors want? What do the people want? The clear consensus among all protestors is they want an end to Hosni Mubarak's regime. We have heard the calls for an end to corruption, an end to the emergency laws that have ruled Egypt for the past three decades. We have heard calls for economic fairness, representative and transparent governance and the protection of rights and freedoms. It is time for political reforms in Egypt and, as Egyptians have made clear, further delay is not acceptable.

It is with great pride that I note that not only were protests being organized in Cairo, but also right in Canada. I want to single out a couple of young Canadians who, like young Egyptians, organized demonstrations in the nation's capital last Friday and just yesterday in front of the Egyptian embassy. There were a number of them, but three people in particular were responsible in Ottawa. They are Iman Ibrahim, Mahmoud Al-Riffai and Yasmine Faoud. These three young people were like the young people in Egypt who decided they would put aside their affairs and would take the challenge to organize people to call for reforms for democracy in Egypt. We should applaud that.

It needs to be understood. This is not just about young people getting involved in politics. This is about young people leading a movement. If we did not have young people deciding that they have had enough, that they want to see real change, we would not see the changes we have seen.

Yes, technologies helped with this and it was important that there were tools like Facebook and Twitter. However, that is not the story. The story is that young people decided they would take on the powers that be and would decide the future of their country. They should be applauded, they should be lauded and they should not be treated in a paternalistic way. They should be respected for what they have done. They are a model of leadership, not just for Egyptians but for Canadians and others around the world.

That is important to understand because there has been a lot of talk about who is behind the protests.

However, I have had daily reports on the ground from Egypt and by all accounts the protestors are representative of every part of Egyptian society. They are truly Egyptian. There has been a breathtaking explosion of political and social creativity, organizational experiments and debates among ordinary people on how to organize their lives.

Some have worried that democracy in Egypt might embolden extremists. They point to the existence of the Muslim brotherhood as the strongest opposition in Egypt. This is false. The Muslim Brotherhood is not leading these protests and is hardly represented in them. In a population of 83 million, it hardly commands more than a few hundred thousand members. In fact, some have argued that fear of an extremist backlash, promoted by the current regime, was the rationale for their existence, and that was to distract others away from what the government was doing.

However, Egypt is an important player in the region and in the world. There is no question that we want stability in the region. However, the present situation under the current regime is neither stable nor sustainable. To fear these peaceful protests is an offence to the people who have put their lives on the line for their rights and freedoms. It is not representative and open governments that lead to extremism; it is the exact opposite.

Who are the political players? Who composes the Egyptian opposition? How are they preparing for the transition of power?

Despite the 30 years of crackdown, Egypt has a diverse political opposition composed of traditional parties and newer ones. While it is unclear exactly what will happen next, the information I have received from people on the ground is that opposition parties are talking. They are working together to find a consensus.

At one point they even put together what was called the people's parliament that formed a committee to negotiate certain terms. These parties have been united in the demand for Mr. Mubarak to depart.

However, these parties are not representative of everyone. One of the things that is being debated right now is the notion of who should be the interim. Many have pointed to those political players who do not have a vested political interest in the future presidency. I hope that is where things go but, of course, it will be up to the Egyptian people to decide that.

It is important to look at our role as an international community. We must not forget that we have played a role in Egypt in the last 30 years. This regime did not sustain itself on its own. It was supported by countries throughout the west. For decades we have stood by Egyptians and many of us have stood by those who have been denied rights, the basic legitimate rights of freedom of expression and of political participation.

In fact, it was the west that played a significant role in propping up this regime. It is really important that we understand that, not to shame anyone but to be held accountable. For instance, in 2008, the last time the government reported on Canada's weapon exports, Egypt was our 23rd largest client at $1.8 million. Some of the exports in arms to Egypt at that time included smoothbore weapons with calibres of 20 millimetres, automatic weapons with a calibre of 12.7 millimetres, unmanned airborne vehicles, aero engines and aircraft equipment.

We are part of this but compared to the U.S., we are minor players. However, it is important to note that we were responsible and we were implicated in supporting the regime.

What should Canada do now? What I have heard from many people on the ground, in general, and particularly from Egyptian Canadians, was that our government's response needed to be clearer, stronger and less tepid.

I recall a proud moment just a couple of years ago when the green movement of Iran rose up against the dictator in that country. I remember well that all parties in the House debated and passed a motion to support the green movement. We were pretty declarative in the House that we wanted to see its rights and voice recognized and to see the regime that was in place replaced.

I think we need to put that into context when we seem to be rather careful about what should happen with Mr. Mubarak. I think we should be clearer about what should happen with him, in that he should be asked to move on.

We should be demanding that our government intervene in a positive way, that we add our voice to others to condemn the use of violence against protestors and that we use all of our diplomatic influence on the Egyptian authorities to start moving forward to seek out an interim situation in terms of leadership that will then lead to elections and to the rebuilding of democratic institutions in Egypt.

It goes without saying that what we do and how we do it matters. What we have heard from young people in Canada and in Cairo, from people who have had their rights denied for over 30 years, is that they do not need one strong man to come in to lead them. They do not need the rest of the world to dictate terms to them.

What they need is to understand that the old way is the wrong way. The old way of deciding to support a strong man and ensuring that those people within our interest are supported is something we reject. The decision to do things differently means supporting a pluralistic approach to our foreign policy by supporting a pluralistic framework within other countries because this is happening elsewhere in the region. That would mean that our government would not need to hide from statements on where we stand.

In the next days and weeks that follow, we are not sure what will happen. Canadians want to know what the government's intentions are in terms of support for the future of Egypt. We not only hope that we will support Egyptians in deciding their own fate and future but also that we will stand with them, not only now, but after they have decided who should lead them. We hope not to turn our back on them. We hope that in the future we will reject the notion of supporting the strong man and support the pluralistic composition that is Egypt; that we are seeing in the streets of Cairo, Alexandria and throughout Egypt today.

Finally, I hope that our Parliament, our government, will be stronger in how it decides to declare its support and that we should not hide from our pride in supporting the people of Egypt.

Situation in EgyptEmergency Debate

7:50 p.m.

Liberal

Glen Pearson Liberal London North Centre, ON

Mr. Speaker, I was interested in what my friend said about whether Mubarak should step aside, if this is what we truly want. I realize that there is a lot of faith out there in the democratic movement that is going on within Egypt, but at the same time much of it has happened independently. Various groups have worked on it independently and not so much together. I would like to ask my friend if he could elaborate on that a bit more.

If Hosni Mubarak was persuaded to step aside, what would be the responsible way in which these groups should come together? Do they actually have the ability to be able to do so or would some other transitional methods need to be put in place? Also, is there any role for the Government of Canada in that as we try to help Egypt get through this transitional process?

Situation in EgyptEmergency Debate

7:50 p.m.

NDP

Paul Dewar NDP Ottawa Centre, ON

Mr. Speaker, what exists now is a vacuum, which concerns many of us. I will qualify that because there are people who are looking for methods to help Egypt come out of its 30 years of repression and seek a new day.

There are people who have been seen as perhaps interim leaders. I think this approach makes sense but it is up to Egyptians to decide. One person who has been put up as a possibility is Ahmed Zewail, a Nobel Prize winner in chemistry. He is respected by many of the Egyptian people and has offered. There is also the approach of having different leaders come together as an interim group to oversee affairs until there are fair elections and a new president elected.

However, it is important for the Government of Canada to be plugged in and know what is happening on the ground. The Minister of Foreign Affairs suggested that Egypt's opposition parties today had accepted Mr. Mubarak's offer to allow for a period of time until reforms are made. As soon as that was articulated, many people in Cairo rejected it immediately. What I hear now is that they have decided not to accept Mubarak's offer.

Clearly we need to be plugged in and we need to know what is happening on the ground. We should be careful not to interfere but careful to support when we see there is a consensus in Egypt. I think that is the best that Canada can do.

Situation in EgyptEmergency Debate

7:50 p.m.

NDP

Jim Maloway NDP Elmwood—Transcona, MB

Mr. Speaker, clearly, as the member has indicated, the government has an important role to play in this situation, including that of Tunisia recently. After all, the government has embassy staff on the ground there who are in a better position to know what is going on. There is obviously some reluctance on their part to move forward.

Does the member have any thoughts or speculation as to why the government seems reluctant to be more definitive in its approach?

Situation in EgyptEmergency Debate

7:50 p.m.

NDP

Paul Dewar NDP Ottawa Centre, ON

Mr. Speaker, I do not know. There are days when I think it is just a matter of not caring and other days it is a matter of just not knowing. What has happened since January 25 is that events have forced the government to take a position, albeit one that is reluctant.

One concern many of us have is that, notwithstanding the reluctance of the government to have a position, it is something that it is forced to be held accountable on, not just by us in Parliament but the by world community. If Canada does not have a position in line with the democracy movement that is spreading throughout the region, it essentially says that Canada does not care.

However, we know that is not true. We know that the protests in front of the Egyptian embassy here and right across Canada by young Egyptians and Canadians who work with them and support them want Canada to have more of a presence, to be more declarative and to say that when it comes to democracy being a concept, it needs to be more than just a convenient talking point. It needs to mean something in our foreign policy, which is why it is important that the government be declarative.

We have heard it from other countries and especially in President Obama's comments last night. Other countries have said that there needs to be not only a transition to stability but a resignation of the regime now so the people can realize what has been denied them, and that is basic freedoms and participation in their political culture.

Situation in EgyptEmergency Debate

7:55 p.m.

NDP

Joe Comartin NDP Windsor—Tecumseh, ON

Mr. Speaker, I just got off the phone in the last few minutes with members of the Coptic Christian community in Windsor. There is a church in a reasonably sizeable community. I had been picking this up earlier, but its greatest concern is for the safety of families and friends still in Egypt.

We all know that Coptic Christians have been a target of discrimination for a long time, either directly by the current administration or in situations where the administration seemed to step aside and let fanatics attack them. I am wondering if my colleague could give any indication of what Canada might be able to do to ensure that particular community is protected during this period of time of uncertainty.

Situation in EgyptEmergency Debate

7:55 p.m.

NDP

Paul Dewar NDP Ottawa Centre, ON

Mr. Speaker, that is an excellent point. Canada prides itself, as we should, on our recognition and protection of minority rights. There are vulnerable populations and communities obviously throughout the world and the Coptic community in Egypt is certainly one of them. When I have talked to people from the community here in Canada, they share the same concerns as those mentioned by my colleague.

What Canada needs to do when it is engaged in diplomacy is to be unequivocal about the need for respect of minority rights. That means that we name them, that we do not just say that we hope we respect democracy, rule of law and minority rights, but say explicitly, when it comes to Egypt, that the rights of Coptic members of the Egyptian community are respected, and through the UN. It is absolutely critical that we do it directly and bilaterally but also within the UN. I hope that is something the government is planning to do because Coptic Christians are a vulnerable population, particularly in that milieu.

Situation in EgyptEmergency Debate

7:55 p.m.

Liberal

Bob Rae Liberal Toronto Centre, ON

Mr. Speaker, the member made a great point by saying he would like Canadian policy to be declaratory.

I am a little surprised that there is one declaration that the member did not make in his speech and I wonder if he would like to take the opportunity to make it today. Would the member agree that any future government of Egypt would be expected by this country to fully respect the peace treaty that it signed with the State of Israel and that it would fully expect the government of Egypt to continue to play a constructive role in the peace talks in the region? Does the member agree that is a declaratory principle of Canadian foreign policy that is just as important as some of the others he has mentioned?

Situation in EgyptEmergency Debate

7:55 p.m.

NDP

Paul Dewar NDP Ottawa Centre, ON

Mr. Speaker, yes.