House of Commons Hansard #142 of the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was changes.

Topics

Jobs, Growth and Long-term Prosperity ActGovernment Orders

6:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Bruce Stanton

Order, please. The hon. member for Kitchener—Conestoga.

Jobs, Growth and Long-term Prosperity ActGovernment Orders

6:45 p.m.

Conservative

Harold Albrecht Conservative Kitchener—Conestoga, ON

Mr. Speaker, I do not think anyone in Canada thinks it is fair for Winnipeg North, for example, to have a population of roughly 79,000 or 80,000 represented by one MP and another MP sitting on this side has over 200,000 constituents to represent. Where is the fairness in the that? Of course Canadians want us to address this inequity.

However, I want to go back to the point he made in his opening comment. Only a Liberal could make conjecture that somehow paying down $37 billion of debt is a waste of taxpayer money. Only a Liberal could imply that using $52 billion of the EI funds that were specifically for EI and squandered in the general revenues was somehow good management.

Jobs, Growth and Long-term Prosperity ActGovernment Orders

6:45 p.m.

Cambridge Ontario

Conservative

Gary Goodyear ConservativeMinister of State (Science and Technology) (Federal Economic Development Agency for Southern Ontario)

Mr. Speaker, my colleague mentioned the opposition did not like to share facts. He might be a little off there. The NDP member for London—Fanshawe goes back to her riding and never misses an opportunity to stand behind a fake cheque or show up to cut a ribbon when we fund the great projects that the member actually has voted against in the House. That happens all the time.

Again, this year in this budget we have $1.1 billion for science and technology. Would the member encourage the opposition to vote for science and technology?

Jobs, Growth and Long-term Prosperity ActGovernment Orders

6:45 p.m.

Conservative

Harold Albrecht Conservative Kitchener—Conestoga, ON

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank my colleague for his great leadership on the science and technology file and also on his leadership on the FedDev Ontario file. This has been amazingly successful in creating research and development opportunities, not just in my riding but across Canada.

One example is the Conestoga College research and development. Conestoga College partners with industry and business partners. They come to Conestoga College with a problem. Conestoga College's engineers, students and staff help that business solve the problem. In the process, the student gets the opportunity to work in business, in a real life environment, and the business gets the expertise of a new engineering student. It is a win-win.

Jobs, Growth and Long-term Prosperity ActGovernment Orders

6:45 p.m.

Conservative

Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to rise in the House at third reading in support of Bill C-38, the jobs, growth and long-prosperity act, and the important steps it takes to implement Canada's economic action plan 2012.

Specifically, I would like to discuss the many ways that today's act would strengthen Canada's immigration system

We all recognize that Canada needs a flexible and efficient immigration system. Practically speaking, we need an immigration system capable of addressing the very real labour shortages faced by communities right across Canada, especially in my home province of Saskatchewan.

As Chris Dekker of Enterprise Saskatchewan has noted, “Labour shortages and demands are the No. 1 barrier to doing business in Saskatchewan”. It is no longer a provincial NDP government; it is actually labour shortages.

The degree of labour shortages has forced the provincial government to undertake numerous creative recruitment efforts, such as a recent skilled worker recruitment mission in Ireland, led by our Premier Brad Wall and numerous Saskatchewan businesses. I have to give them credit. They went out and looked for the skills that their employers needed and talked to people who were looking for jobs. What a way to bring them together. I give the premier credit for going to Ireland and recruiting those people.

To assist the good work of the province, our Conservative government has made significant progress in recent years to refocus our system to reduce backlogs, reverse wait times and improve the timeliness of the services we provide.

These reforms ultimately ensure that Canada's economic prosperity is our system's number one priority.

For example, we have placed a high value on attracting newcomers to Canada with the skills and experience to meet our economic demands. However, we need to do more. We must deliver transformational changes to the immigration system that will better generate economic growth and long-term prosperity for Canadians.

We envision a just-in-time system in which the entire process for a skilled immigrant to apply to come to Canada, be accepted and admitted, and become gainfully employed would take only a few months instead of many years. To achieve this vision, we must first address the legacy of the large backlog of applicants under our federal skilled worker program.

We took measures to address the dysfunctional federal skilled worker backlog of 640,000 persons that was allowed to fester under the previous Liberal government. However, the fact remains that we still have a backlog of nearly 300,000 old federal skilled worker applicants.

I am pleased to inform the House today that economic action plan 2012, along with today's act, would help us to reform the immigration system, so it aligns more closely with our economic needs and so it achieves better results, both for newcomers and for Canada. These reforms, I note, have been warmly welcomed in Saskatchewan and beyond.

Canadian Home Builders' Association president Ron Olson of Saskatoon has applauded economic action plan 2012's immigration reform saying, “We have urged the government to address the growing shortage of skilled people required to build and renovate homes. We're pleased that the budget tackles this issue”.

Listen to what Janice MacKinnon, a former NDP finance minister in Saskatchewan, had to say, “[As] somebody from Western Canada...our biggest problem are labour shortages. We have projects that can't proceed because they can't find the skilled workers. The changes they're proposing [in economic action plan 2012] to immigration matter to us so we can get the immigrants we want, when we want”.

How are we doing that?

First, we will eliminate the backlog of old federal skilled worker applications that has nearly crippled our immigration system. This will transform the federal skilled worker program from one that has moved at a snail's pace for older applications, to one that will be able to bring to Canada the people we need when they are needed. The backlog hurts our economy by impeding our system's abilities to respond quickly to our changing economic priorities.

As a result, we will now be able to shift our processing priority toward newer federal skilled worker applicants who are more likely to have the current, in-demand skills that our economy requires.

To ensure that Canada's immigration system will benefit our economic future, Canada needs immigrants who are ready, willing and able to fully integrate into Canada's labour market, particularly where there are existing skills shortages. However, we also need to ensure that the skilled immigrants we choose are the ones Canada needs and that once they arrive here, they are able to put their skills to use immediately.

Economic action plan 2012 also commits to continue working with the provinces and territories to speed up and streamline the credential recognition process for regulated professions.

Under the pan-Canadian framework for the assessment and recognition of foreign qualifications, our goal is to give applicants an answer within a year of their application. We can tell skilled professionals whether their credentials will be recognized or if they will require additional education, training or experience to become licensed in their field.

To date, we have processes in place for eight regulated occupations and we are working with an additional six regulated occupations to add to the list this year. We have also made considerable progress toward improving the foreign credential recognition process for many newcomers who are already in Canada, but we can and must do more.

Skilled immigrants come to Canada with the expectation that they will be able to work in the profession in which they are trained and we owe it to them to ensure that is the case. That is why the changes we are proposing to our immigration system will ensure mandatory assessment of foreign education credentials for federal skilled worker program applicants. This will involve a new requirement for applicants to first have their overseas education credentials assessed by a designated third party before they are accepted. The results of this assessment will be part of the immigration application. The process will be separate from more in-depth assessments that regulatory bodies will use to license professionals from abroad.

Our Conservative government believes that by working together we can find practical ways to give people a green light before they get to Canada, especially if we know they are going to have a better than even chance of being licensed and joining the workforce in Canada. Our goal with this change is to better select immigrants, so they can hit the ground running once they arrive by integrating quickly into our labour market.

This is part of the broader changes we are proposing to improve the federal skilled worker program, bringing it in line with the needs of our modern economy. For instance, we are working to introduce a new skilled trades program that would create a means for skilled tradespersons to be assessed based on criteria geared to the reality of the job, putting more emphasis on practical training and work experience.

It is common sense that to ensure immigration will fuel our future prosperity, we need a system that will help position Canada to attract the world's best talent. That is why our Conservative government is committed to strengthening the immigration system to make it truly proactive, targeted, fast and efficient to help sustain Canada's economic growth and deliver prosperity into the future.

The Canadian Construction Association, or CCA, one of the many of the many supporters of this portion of Bill C-38, states:

CCA was...encouraged by the measures outlined to build a fast and flexible immigration system...In order to continue to build the economy and remain cost competitive, businesses across Canada must have access to the required skilled workers in order to grow and take advantage of the tremendous international demand for Canadian products and services.

I join the Canadian Construction Association and others asking that this House support and pass today's legislation.

When I go back to my province and my riding and talk to the constituents there, they talk about this budget and they see so many benefits and structural changes to our future economy. It really lays a proper foundation for Canada to grow and move into the future. This is a good budget. I cannot see why anybody would vote against it. I encourage all members to get behind the budget and move it forward.

Jobs, Growth and Long-term Prosperity ActGovernment Orders

6:55 p.m.

NDP

Carol Hughes NDP Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON

Mr. Speaker, I listened intently to what the member had to say and I do not understand where the Conservatives are coming from. On one hand, they say that we have to fill the skilled labour shortage. On the other hand, they want to take skilled labour people who are seasonal workers and force them into other jobs that do not really meet their skills, because we will not using them to their full potential.

However, at the same time, the Conservatives would create a void in the seasonal workforce. Where are these people going to get their training skills? Where will they get people to fill those, if they force the seasonal workers to work somewhere else and then they cannot go back to their seasonal jobs?

Maybe the member can tell me this. Will those workers be able to go back to their seasonal jobs and will they be penalized that?

Jobs, Growth and Long-term Prosperity ActGovernment Orders

6:55 p.m.

Conservative

Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK

Mr. Speaker, it is unfortunate my colleague does not understand how the process will work. As we see it unfold, hopefully she will get a better understanding of why this would be better for all of Canada.

I will use the example of what happens on the farm in Saskatchewan and has happened throughout the last 15 or 20 years. We have a lot of grain farmers who farm throughout the summer and spring. Once the snow hits in the fall, they have all their grain hauled out. Now that we no longer have the CWB, they actually control their product even better. They go into Alberta or southern Saskatchewan and work in the oil patch and they take on that seasonal work in the winter. That is something of which they can take advantage. When we have a strong and vibrant economy, we have all sorts of opportunity and people have choice of employment.

When we take on policies that restrict business activity and suppress people, which the NDP government did in Saskatchewan, our kids are forced to go to another province to find jobs. Hopefully, with these proposed changes in the budget, we will see so much economic activity across Canada and that issue will take care of itself.

Jobs, Growth and Long-term Prosperity ActGovernment Orders

6:55 p.m.

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB

Mr. Speaker, I would like to challenge the member on his assertions in regard to the backlog in immigration.

First, the member should be aware that the Minister of Immigration, through ministerial instructions, increased the backlog significantly, over 150,000 virtually overnight. Then the minister tried to say that the Conservatives would get rid of this backlog and he tried to blame it on the former Liberal government. In reality it is the Conservative government that needs to take responsibility for the backlog of skilled workers. Now, to put icing on the cake, the government has made a decision to hit the delete button. My question—

Jobs, Growth and Long-term Prosperity ActGovernment Orders

6:55 p.m.

Some hon. members

Oh, oh!

Jobs, Growth and Long-term Prosperity ActGovernment Orders

6:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Bruce Stanton

Order, please. The hon. member for Winnipeg North has the floor. I am sure the hon. member for Prince Albert would like to hear the question.

The hon. member for Winnipeg North.

Jobs, Growth and Long-term Prosperity ActGovernment Orders

6:55 p.m.

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB

Mr. Speaker, the government pushes the delete button for those individuals who were in the process. That is a cruel policy.

Now that the federal court has ruled that what the government has done is morally wrong, would the member not agree that those individuals who applied to come here as skilled workers should be allowed to at least go through the process?

Jobs, Growth and Long-term Prosperity ActGovernment Orders

7 p.m.

Conservative

Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK

Mr. Speaker, it is unfortunate that the member has misconstrued the facts of what is actually going on. I will explain it for him as we go through.

The reality is that they had a system that we inherited from the Liberal government that was totally inadequate and not functioning in a way that was appropriate for both the employer or the person trying to come to Canada. How could it be acceptable for people to be on a waiting list for six years to find out whether they can come into the country? That is something we inherited from the Liberal government.

I want to clarify one other thing that will happen. Yes, there will be a reduction in the backlog. We will give the money back to the people who have been in the queue for six years but they can apply right away and they will know within a year. They will not be waiting six more years to get their application processed. That is what the Liberals think is acceptable. Well, let them have 10 kids and wait an entire life--

Jobs, Growth and Long-term Prosperity ActGovernment Orders

7 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Bruce Stanton

The hon. member for Essex.

Jobs, Growth and Long-term Prosperity ActGovernment Orders

7 p.m.

Conservative

Jeff Watson Conservative Essex, ON

Mr. Speaker, going back and looking at our budget document, some 498 pages long, and not expecting a budget implementation bill that would be 12 pages long, but hidden on page 146 and several pages forward are changes to employment insurance. We find them in our budget implementation bill. Could the member comment on the positive aspects of the changes that we have been debating now since the end of March?

Jobs, Growth and Long-term Prosperity ActGovernment Orders

7 p.m.

Conservative

Randy Hoback Conservative Prince Albert, SK

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the hard work my colleague does in representing constituents in his riding. I also congratulate him on the hard work he has done in bringing that new bridge to his riding. It is something that has been needed for such a long time. I congratulate him for getting that job done. He did a great job there.

As far as employment insurance, the one thing I found talking to businesses in Prince Albert was that they were looking for employees from areas where there is high unemployment. The first thing that came back to them when they had approached those people with jobs was that they had another five or six months of unemployment insurance so they were going to wait until that ran out and then maybe take a job. We are just correcting some of those problems and making it easier so those people can find a job that much quicker.

Jobs, Growth and Long-term Prosperity ActGovernment Orders

7 p.m.

Liberal

Scott Simms Liberal Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL

Mr. Speaker, following the last comment that was made, that is a pretty bad stereotype and a dangerous thing to say. Anyone who is considered to be using EI on a frequent basis may be in a circumstance of seasonal work and would love to be working year round. The stereotype that is being put out is a pretty sad one.

I went to the town of Port Union just two weeks ago and was told about how people hoped the plant would be sold to someone diversified enough to provide double the amount of time throughout the year to allow them to work that many months. The people agreed. I hardly consider that to be something akin to repeat offenders.

I will talk about EI in depth in just a few moments but I have another point to make about the bill. I first came here, like other members, in 2004. At that time the contentious issue was the Atlantic accord. The negotiations were back and forth between the then prime minister, Paul Martin, and then premier, Danny Williams. To say it was heated is quite the understatement. When we finally settled on a deal that was satisfactory to both the province and the federal government, we knew the best mechanism by which we could establish it was through the budget. In other words, it was affixed to the budget as one lump sum payment with changes that would affect the equalization formula.

Here is the issue. When we brought this to the House to debate within a budget implementation bill, the anger from the Conservative side of the House was vehement. It was like watching Pavlov's dogs. Every time a member mentioned that there was a budget implementation bill, the Conservatives were incredibly angry. They asked how dare we slip this through. They said it was like some kind of”, is everyone ready for this term that I have heard, Trojan Horse. The Conservatives said that we had produced a Trojan Horse. That Trojan Horse was a miniature pony compared to what we have now. This thing is the size of an elephant.

Jobs, Growth and Long-term Prosperity ActGovernment Orders

7 p.m.

Liberal

Francis Scarpaleggia Liberal Lac-Saint-Louis, QC

A Trojan elephant.

Jobs, Growth and Long-term Prosperity ActGovernment Orders

7 p.m.

Liberal

Scott Simms Liberal Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL

A Trojan elephant, if it exists. It is 400-plus pages plus. It is unbelievable.

This is like looking for steak and ending up with about 200 tonnes of Spam that is shoved right through the system because everything is in here, clause after clause, change after change to this regulation and that regulation. One of the fundamental things the government has done to EI when it comes to the rules and regulations about employment insurance is to bring the decision making from the legislature to the cabinet table. It makes it much easier.

When we brought in pilot projects in 2005, we were faced with the prospect of an EI system that was falling down in seasonal industries, so we changed it. We went to the best 14 formula, which at the time was a pilot project, but it was voted on in the House under a minority Parliament. How is that? The idea of actually doing that is foreign. It is passed off as something that has been done before, something that is necessary, but yet it was only back in 2005 and even prior to that when it was considered sacrosanct to the validity of the chamber, the heart of democracy as it were.

When we look at this bill, one of the biggest changes is to old age security. Many of my colleagues have talked about this quite a bit, whether it is OAS or language. One those members, I am honoured to say I will be splitting my time with, is the member for Ottawa—Vanier. I look forward to his speech. He is a hard-working employee of the people who he represents and a fantastic member.

I will go back to the OAS changes. One of the fundamental things about old age security is that the government had talked about upping the GIS payments before it won its majority. I I would argue that only one-third of it was covered at the time. It could have upped it by more, probably closer to $700 or $800 of total expenditure. That would have raised the income level for the poorest of our seniors to a much higher level, taking many more people out of poverty.

Not once during the last election did anybody on that side of the House, whether it was Conservative propaganda or not, or even through ministers at the time, say that in no way, shape or form would this program meet the brick the wall. In no way, shape or form will this run itself into trouble 20 years down the road.

Shortly thereafter we found ourselves in a situation where the Conservatives decided that it would be a tough program to maintain at the current funding levels in 20 or 30 years from now. I could understand if the Conservatives had been in opposition and then went to government and decided that the program was not feasible in the future. However, when they had been in government since 2006 right up until 2011, certainly to God they had to know at some point that this program would need to be looked at.

The chief actuarial officer of the OECD, the organization that the Conservatives brag about quite a bit, and the Parliamentary Budget Officer all agree that this change is not necessary as Canada's old age security program is already sustainable.

A lot of people would say that it is only two years but we should think about that two-year period. Some people say that it is well down the road and that we should not worry about it. In other words, we should not worry about it. We should let our kids deal with it because we will not around. That is pretty short-sighted and it goes against everything else when it comes to things like investments that we make.

Given the situation we are in and the fact that experts are saying that this does not need to be changed, even at that particular year down the road, why would the Conservatives be doing this? That is two years. To me, that represents a downloading to the province. People who are in a situation of extreme poverty may rely on the provincial welfare system and there is supplementary health care involved. Now, all of a sudden, that has to be extended for two years because at 65 they were able to claim old age security and if their income level was at a lower level they could have also qualified for the guaranteed income supplement.

That two years will be downloaded to the province, something the Conservatives said that they would never do. It has to be done that way, according to them, because it will save the system. However, time and time again we are hearing more people say that it is not really serious.

I will now go to employment insurance. What I am hearing time and time again is a fundamental misunderstanding of what seasonal work is to areas of the country. The mayor of St. John's, Newfoundland and Labrador, Mayor O'Keefe, had a point when he said that if these changes occur, the downgrading of services like search and research, the downgrading of other services, do we centralize outside of the island?

EI changes that affect seasonal work, where frequent users, under the government's category, represent 80% in my area of people on EI. They are not repeat offenders. It is the industry they work in. If there is one company across the street, as the minister heckled earlier, with full-time work and the person leaves the fish plant to go to that store and work all year round. That is one job to be filled by approximately 100 or 150 fish plant workers. Then the government says that maybe they can go from the fish plant over to the tourism sector because it is a newer industry and it is hoping to expand it. All that does is take one seasonal worker and put him in other seasonal work. That does not help seasonal workers at all.

What are these fish plants going to do? The plant that I spoke of earlier in Port Union wants to diversify its plant. It wants to attract industry, except now it will have nobody to work in the plant. It will shut down and will have little hope of opening because of the workforce problems. It is not workforce problems in the sense of getting temporary workers but in the sense that people will be shuffled around. They will not have the opportunity to fend for themselves or to get something else. The proverbial vacuum will suck all the skilled labour out of these smaller communities. If that is what the Conservatives want why do they not be honest?

My colleague from Essex earlier talked about how nothing was hidden in this budget, yet everyone has questions about seasonal workers. If people are within an hour's drive, they have to go to these jobs. What happens if a person lives on Fogo Island and there is ice in the harbour and the person cannot make it on the boat? What happens if someone does not have a car? What happens, what happens, what happens?

I am hoping that at some point the government will answer these questions, that it will take this into a full debate in the House. It is unfortunate that the government did not do that.

Jobs, Growth and Long-term Prosperity ActGovernment Orders

7:10 p.m.

NDP

Carol Hughes NDP Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON

Mr. Speaker, I am going to talk about seasonal workers. My colleague is absolutely right. This is very problematic for industries in a lot of provinces, whether fisheries, forestry or MNR. We have extreme concerns with the impact that this will have on the skills shortage that we can see with seasonal workers.

I am wondering if he has some concerns as well. If someone is a machinist or a driver who can drive a big truck, if his or her job is only seasonal does that mean that the individual would now be forced to deliver pizzas because he or she can drive a vehicle? We have real concerns on this side of the House that this would create a void in seasonal workers. Who would fill those jobs if the government forced people to take full-time jobs at minimum wage?

Jobs, Growth and Long-term Prosperity ActGovernment Orders

7:10 p.m.

Liberal

Scott Simms Liberal Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL

Mr. Speaker, indeed the provisions in the budget regarding EI are fraught with contradictions. The member has a point. Let us think for a moment about taking someone out of a seasonal industry that is the main industry of a smaller community and having that person deliver pizza. The pizza store only exists because of the fish plant. Therefore, money that is being generated, money that is coming into the community, goes to smaller retail outlets that are now running the day according to the Conservatives. If they keep taking seasonal workers out of this particular area, the pizza store will not exist anymore.

This is the problem with it. There is a lack of understanding. I wish, I pray, I hope that the government will stop treating people like they are repeat offenders whose only intention is to not work that part of the year. These people would love the opportunity to put in 12 months, but the markets right now do not dictate that to happen and never will if the government policy is implemented.

Jobs, Growth and Long-term Prosperity ActGovernment Orders

7:15 p.m.

Blackstrap Saskatchewan

Conservative

Lynne Yelich ConservativeMinister of State (Western Economic Diversification)

Mr. Speaker, the member should understand that it is not seasonal workers who are the concern. Employers want employees. For example, in Fort McMurray, Tim Hortons and other employers are looking for people to fill positions. They are offering $15 or $20 an hour and because they cannot get anyone to fill the jobs they would like to have foreign workers come in. In some areas there is high unemployment not very far from these centres. This is not targeting seasonal workers. It is trying to help fill positions where employers are asking for foreign workers and foreign workers are being brought in to fill positions for which there are probably people available. I would like the member to understand the broader picture for the legislation.

Jobs, Growth and Long-term Prosperity ActGovernment Orders

7:15 p.m.

Liberal

Scott Simms Liberal Bonavista—Gander—Grand Falls—Windsor, NL

Mr. Speaker, let us try this again with the example of Tim Hortons in Fort McMurray. The government would provide it with domestic workers not foreign workers. These domestic workers would come from the government's category of frequent users of the system. There is no other place to get these workers, according to the government.

I do not know where these people would come from. If people come from Port Union and decide to work at Tim Hortons in Fort McMurray, the government is not even going to help pay for the move. What if these people cannot afford to move? What happens then? They would go to the province and go on welfare. That is downloading on a province if I have ever seen it.

The government might say, “We are not going to bother with them, we are going to go to someone else.” Here is what the government is not providing: who is that someone else if it is not temporary workers or foreign workers, or it is not the people in seasonal work? They do not just appear out of nowhere.

Jobs, Growth and Long-term Prosperity ActGovernment Orders

7:15 p.m.

Liberal

Mauril Bélanger Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON

Mr. Speaker, I rise this evening to speak on Bill C-38, an act to implement certain provisions of the budget. If the bill were simply to implement certain provisions of the budget, it would not have become such a big problem. The problem is not just here in the House—as we saw last week and again today. The problem can be felt across the country.

I have heard a multitude of comments from the people I have the honour of representing in the House. They are extremely concerned by the government's approach of introducing a catch-all bill into which they are stuffing all kinds of things. People are well aware, for example, of the importance of the oversight body at the intelligence agency. The elimination of this inspection office concerns them tremendously. That has nothing to do with the budget.

I want to mention a number of points. First, I want to talk about the public service. There has been talk that the budget will eliminate 19,200 jobs. That is not quite accurate. They have forgotten to mention that, in the previous two budgets, there is already a loss that could go as high as 6,000 other jobs. There is no mention of fixed-term appointments that expire at the end of March, for example, and that have not been renewed. Thousands of jobs were not renewed when they expired.

The real number, according to most experts, is more than 30,000 jobs. I think the government is deliberately trying to provide inaccurate information.

Nonetheless, the method for coming up with these lay-offs is quite extraordinary. The government chose to give the employees a letter, in which they may learn that their position is affected, even if that does not necessarily mean they will lose their job.

The problem is that these letters are being given to two to three times as many people as positions being eliminated. There is a general sense of uncertainty being created among all public service employees. This distress is completely unacceptable. The government is creating a divisiveness that will cause public servants' productivity to plummet. Then there is the matter of the unnecessary fear and anxiety being created at the individual level. In my opinion, this approach never should have been adopted and this should never have happened.

I heard that there are some people who have been told that their positions are affected, but they still do not know what the outcome will be. This is truly an odd way to go about this, especially now that some public servants are being told not to talk about this situation publicly. I am talking about the public servants at Parks Canada or in the science sector. I find it very troubling that public servants are being told that the government no longer trusts them and that they are not entitled to speak, when the role of a public servant is to tell the employer the truth. “Speaking truth to power” is a value that is absolutely ingrained in our public service. I think it is being undermined by these initiatives that are denying people the right to speak. When it comes to the public service, the budget is not exactly promising.

This goes beyond these issues. If a person has the right to speak because he is not a public servant and has a job at an environmental agency, for example, then he is suddenly declared a dangerous radical. If the government cannot stop people from talking then it attacks their funding, either by eliminating it or asking Revenue Canada to review the agencies' documents. Even funding that comes from individuals abroad gets questioned. This does not give a very good impression.

On another point, I also wanted to talk about seniors.

OAS is moving from 65 to 67 for people who qualify. Most have spoken about it. There is no justification whatsoever for this. If there were justification on the economic front, then perhaps. However, the government has refused to share its studies and information to demonstrate effectively against the views of the Parliamentary Budget Officer and Chief Actuary, who have said that there is no justification. Yet, we are asked to vote for it, which is something I just cannot do.

On foreign aid, I will read a comment that I received from a constituent. She states:

I am writing to you as my member of Parliament because I am so upset that our government is reducing our foreign aid budget. Astoundingly, they are doing it on the backs of the poor.

We should be proud that in the recent past we have helped those in the developing world by investing in the Global Fund to fight AIDS, TB and malaria and have successfully treated four million tuberculosis sufferers and saved half a million lives. We are on the brink of finally realizing an AIDS-free generation and eradicating diseases like TB and malaria? So why jeopardize the achievement of these life-saving goals?!!

Yes, the federal government is facing some tough economic challenges but cutting back on foreign aid and pushing the world's most vulnerable further into poverty is not the way to balance the budget.

Why don't we do what the UK has done? What it has done in terms of foreign aid is incredibly generous and humane. Even though the country is facing the worst austerity measures since the second world war it will increase foreign aid spending by 40% and is committed to meeting the 0.7% target set by the OECD by 2015.

Why doesn't Canada follow in the UK footsteps? The UK has similar economic problems but it is not fighting the problems on the backs of the poor!! Where is Canada's generosity and humanity?!

I strongly urge you to keep the issue of the cuts to foreign aid on the front burner in the House of Commons. Why don't you make a statement or raise a question in the House of Commons about the cuts to foreign [aid] and express some of my views? I would appreciate that very much.

Thank you for the work you are doing in a very difficult environment.

Yours sincerely,

Judith Barbara Woollcombe

I thought I would express her views by just quoting her letter, which I think is rather compelling.

I do not have a lot of time, so I will quickly talk about libraries.

Here is the information that I received: 23 of the 49 librarians at Library and Archives Canada, or 46%, will be laid off. We are no longer talking about 10%. Almost half of the librarians will be laid off. That will have a huge impact on the accessibility of documents and research at Library and Archives Canada, since archivists are also being cut.

A program that was key for most small libraries across the country is also being eliminated. In particular, I would like to mention the University of Ottawa's Centre for Research on French Canadian Culture, which has relied on and been actively using this program since 1989. This program benefits not only the research centre, but also francophone communities across the country. The issues that it deals with are important to the country and to the French linguistic minority.

We were told that this community would not be affected by the budget, but we are already seeing an example that shows that such is not the case.

The last point, which is of the greatest concern, has to do with community access centres. They were created in 2000 to make sure that there was not a growing gap in the population. Only 81% of people are connected to the Internet in metropolitan areas. As a result, 19% of people in cities are not connected to the Internet. Outside those areas, the percentage is 71%. In Ottawa, 19% of people are not connected to the Internet. It is important to understand that people making less than $30,000 a year are the least likely to be connected to the Internet. In fact, 54% of people who have an income of less than $30,000 are not connected to the Internet compared to 97% of people who have an income of $87,000 and over.

So who is being penalized? Once again, it is the poor. For $70,000, 16 centres were operating in Ottawa with 17 volunteers. Only one coordinator and five students were working there. The 17 volunteers were putting in over 500 or 600 hours. A total of 52,000 people are using the service every year. For $70,000, the government is going to deprive 52,000 people of Internet access, when it has been demonstrated that the poorest members of society are the ones who are not connected to the Internet. That is the common thread in this budget.

When it comes to old age security, it is the poorest who will be penalized. When it comes to Internet access, it is the poorest who will be penalized. When it comes to foreign aid, it is the poorest who will be penalized. This budget truly makes me very sad.

Jobs, Growth and Long-term Prosperity ActGovernment Orders

7:25 p.m.

NDP

Tarik Brahmi NDP Saint-Jean, QC

Mr. Speaker, I listened carefully to the speech by the member for Ottawa—Vanier.

He mentioned a very important point that I feel especially strongly about: the public servants who are receiving letters saying that their jobs may possibly be cut.

In my riding, Saint-Jean, 144 positions will be cut in the Department of National Defence's civilian staff. That is not just 144 people, but several hundred civilian staff members who will each receive a letter explaining, as the hon. member said, that their position might possibly be eliminated.

I would like to hear his comments on that aspect. Since there are probably some civilian staff members of the Department of National Defence living in his riding of Ottawa—Vanier, I would like him to tell us how this affects their morale.

Jobs, Growth and Long-term Prosperity ActGovernment Orders

7:25 p.m.

Liberal

Mauril Bélanger Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON

Mr. Speaker, in the 1990s, I experienced a similar situation when we came to power and inherited a $42 billion deficit.

We had to reduce the number of public servants. We went about it in a completely different way. People knew when their jobs were going to be cut. They also had access to a range of benefits over and above the minimum legal or collective agreement requirements. As many have said repeatedly, lots of people were upset that they were not laid off because they were not entitled to those benefits.

At the time, nobody left unwillingly. People left the public service willingly. That is not the case this time around. Two or three times more people are being told that they could be out of a job, instead of just the people who will really lose their jobs. Imagine the tension that creates in an office where 10 workers know that five jobs are going to be cut. Ten people get the notice and have to compete with each other. That is just great for team spirit, morale and productivity.

That is exactly the kind of terrible situation our public servants are dealing with now.