Debates of Sept. 18th, 2012

Abortion

[Rathika Sitsabaiesan, NDP, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I am honoured to present a third petition signed by women and men from across Canada who are opposed to Conservative Motion No. 312, a thinly veiled attempt to re-open the abortion debate in Canada, a debate that Canadians already had decades ago. Canadians are ready to move on and finally achieve true gender equality in Canada.

Katimavik

[Sadia Groguhé, NDP, Saint-Lambert, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I have the pleasure of submitting two petitions today. The first concerns reinstating and keeping the Katimavik program. Many young people spoke to us about this program and the need to keep it.

Public Transit

[Sadia Groguhé, NDP, Saint-Lambert, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the second petition concerns a national public transit strategy, and I am tabling it today in support of my colleague from Trinity—Spadina.

Health of Animals Act

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I rise today to present two petitions.

The first petition is from residents of Saanich within my riding of Saanich--Gulf Islands. The petitioners urge the House to support private member's Bill C-322. The bill deals with the issue of horse meat and the risk. I think most Canadians would like to believe that horses are not part of a food product for many reasons, including the drugs that horses may have ingested and the fact that they are not reared as food. They should be protected and Bill C-322 should be passed.

Canadian Broadcasting Corporation

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the second petition is from residents in the Vancouver area calling on the House to act to protect a stable, public broadcasting system through full funding. We have seen the CBC trashed this summer. We have just lost the broadcasting of CBC International. Now people can only access it through a website, which we know repressive governments, like Communist China, can block access to. We need to have that short wave system revived. Let us, as these petitioners wish us to do, protect the CBC.

Katimavik

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I have two petitions today.

The first petitions is in regard to the unfortunate ending of the Katimavik program. This program has been part of the scene in Canada for many years and has produced some incredible leaders among the youth who participated. Sadly, 600 young people were supposed to be part of that program this year and were denied that opportunity because of the funding cut imposed by the government to the Katimavik program.

Public Transit

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the second petition is from Canadians across the country who are very concerned about the fact that Canada is the only OECD nation that does not have a national transit strategy and that over the next five years we will find ourselves in an $18 billion deficit when it comes to transit infrastructure.

Therefore, the petitioners are asking the Government of Canada to enact a Canada public transit strategy which will provide permanent investment in transit, establish a federal funding mechanism, work with other levels of government to provide a sustainable and predictable long-term funding strategy and establish accountability measures so we can have a transit system of the 21st century rather than the 19th century.

Katimavik

[Guy Caron, NDP, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Mr. Speaker, this morning I have the pleasure of submitting two petitions signed by men and women from across the country.

The first petition is in support of reinstating and extending the Katimavik program. In Rimouski, I had the opportunity to meet with young people who benefited from the experience. Meeting young people from all over the country was an enriching experience for the youth who participated and for my community.

Public Transit

[Guy Caron, NDP, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the second petition is in support of a national public transit strategy. There is a large gap in infrastructure, which must be remedied. We are talking about $18 billion. Most Canadians, whether they live in big cities or rural areas, would like to have much more efficient public transit. That is why many people have signed this petition, which I am very pleased to submit.

[Carol Hughes, NDP, Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON]

Mr. Speaker, there are a lot of petitions being tabled with respect to a national public transit strategy. That is the exact petition that I am tabling. Nobody knows more the impact of not having public transportation than northern Ontario. It has a very big impact on our communities.

On that note, it is estimated that over the next five years there will be an $18 billion gap in transit infrastructure. We are the only OECD country that does not have a national public transit strategy.

Therefore, what the petitioners are asking for is a permanent investment plan to support public transit. They are also asking that a federal funding mechanism be put in place for public transit and that we work together with all levels of government to provide sustainable, predictable, long-term and adequate funding, as well as to establish accountability measures.

[Sylvain Chicoine, NDP, Châteauguay—Saint-Constant, QC]

Mr. Speaker, today I have the pleasure of submitting a petition signed by dozens of Canadians from across the country, which underscores the chronic underfunding of public transit in recent years.

This petition is in support of the bill introduced by my colleague from Trinity—Spadina. This bill will improve public transit infrastructure, which could be a great boon to the people in my riding who do not have adequate infrastructure to establish an efficient public transit system.

[The Speaker, Conservative, Andrew Scheer]

Unfortunately, the time provided for petitions has expired, but there will be another 15 minutes tomorrow. I am sure we can get the rest of them in.

Questions on the Order Paper. The hon. parliamentary secretary to the government House leader.

Questions on the Order Paper

[Tom Lukiwski, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, I ask that all questions be allowed to stand.

[The Speaker, Conservative, Andrew Scheer]

Is that agreed?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

The House resumed from September 17 consideration of the motion that Bill C-42, An Act to amend the Royal Canadian Mounted Police Act and to make related and consequential amendments to other Acts, be read the second time and referred to a committee, and of the motion that this question be now put.

Enhancing Royal Canadian Mounted Police Accountability Act

[The Speaker, Conservative, Andrew Scheer]

The hon. member for Alfred-Pellan has five minutes remaining for questions and comments.

[Rathika Sitsabaiesan, NDP, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I listened intently to my colleague's speech yesterday. If possible, I would like her to elaborate on some of the things she thinks are very pointed and good about this bill and what she thinks could be improved.

[The Deputy Speaker, NDP, Joe Comartin]

The member for Windsor West on a point of order.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Mr. Speaker, on a point of order, I would like the House to welcome you to your new role as Deputy Speaker and thank you for your work for the constituents of Windsor—Tecumseh. You have ably served this House since the year 2000. I have been grateful to share many experiences with you. I think this is a good decision for the House.

Ironically, I think your first ruling will probably be against me. However, I do think it is important to recognize your contributions.

I look forward to seeing how you will perform the role of Deputy Speaker.

[The Deputy Speaker, NDP, Joe Comartin]

The member for Windsor West is correct. He is out of order with regard to that.

However, the expression of support that I received yesterday, once the Speaker had given my name forward, was quite overwhelming and greatly appreciated by me and my constituents.

Let us resume debate. The member for Alfred-Pellan.

[Rosane Doré Lefebvre, NDP, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Mr. Speaker, it is an honour for me to answer this question and to be the first person you called upon to speak in this chamber. I thank you very much. I would also like to thank my colleague from Scarborough—Rouge River for her excellent question.

The NDP's position is to support Bill C-42 at second reading. However, corrections and amendments need to be made. This bill is going in the right direction, but there are improvements to be made. Yesterday, the Minister of Public Safety himself confirmed that amendments could be made to flesh out this bill and to ensure that it is tougher on members of the RCMP who commit offences such as sexual harassment.

The speech I gave yesterday centred on the problem of sexual harassment and the public's confidence in the RCMP. What is important for us is to see that we will have the opportunity to implement a more independent process to address such offences within the RCMP. The only problem is that if it so happens that no other organization can conduct an investigation—I am talking here about provincial organizations—then the investigation could be conducted by the RCMP itself, which means that the RCMP would be investigating itself.

This process therefore sets a double standard and is not exactly independent. We are really looking to ensure that the bill will implement a completely independent process in all of the provinces and throughout Canada so that women who work for the RCMP are well protected and that the public's confidence in the RCMP is restored.

[Rathika Sitsabaiesan, NDP, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague again for that very clear answer. She did acknowledge that the NDP will be supporting Bill C-42 at second reading. However, I wonder if she could elaborate a little further on some of the amendments she proposed that would make this a very strong bill moving forward.

I know my colleague has a very thorough understanding of this bill. I ask if she would elaborate on some of the amendments and allow the government members to learn about those that we look forward to proposing during committee stage.

[Rosane Doré Lefebvre, NDP, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would once again like to thank my colleague from Scarborough—Rouge River. I would be happy to give more information about what could be added to help flesh out Bill C-42.

In my speech, I mentioned that as Canadians, we must have a thorough debate on what we want to do with the RCMP. This is the right time to do so. This is the time to change the RCMP's internal policies.

I would also like to mention that we support Commissioner Paulson's statement that legislation alone is not enough to preserve public trust and that extensive reform is necessary to address the serious underlying problems within the RCMP, in order to create a workplace that is more open, more co-operative and more respectful of everyone.

We completely agree with Commissioner Paulson's statement. We want to ensure that Commissioner Paulson has everything he needs to make the necessary changes within the RCMP.

[Sylvain Chicoine, NDP, Châteauguay—Saint-Constant, QC]

Mr. Speaker, in recent years, a number of scandals have rocked the RCMP, particularly with respect to the sexual harassment against certain members in recent years. Furthermore, many Canadians were troubled by the disciplinary measures that were too lenient for some officers accused of serious misconduct. The revelations that came out with these scandals seriously undermined Canadians' trust in this noble institution. I would like to briefly remind members of the various scandals in order to put this bill into context.

More than 200 women who work and have worked for the RCMP in recent years filed a class action suit against the RCMP for sexual harassment. The first hearing was held a little over a month ago, but the class action suit has not yet been accepted by the courts. A number of officers have also filed individual lawsuits in addition to this legal action.

The government introduced Bill C-42 in response to all of these scandals, in order to restore public trust in the RCMP.

From 1994 to 2011, 750 formal discipline hearings were held across Canada. In this same period of time, 206 regular and civilian members resigned from the RCMP. From 2000 to 2011, 715 new formal discipline cases were filed , which represents an average of about 83 new cases a year.

Given the many harassment allegations and serious disciplinary offences, we believe this bill is justified. There is growing public concern among Canadians regarding the problem of harassment.

For months now, the NDP has been urging Public Safety Canada to make the issue of sexual harassment in the RCMP a top priority. Unfortunately, Bill C-42 does not directly or adequately address the systemic, deeply-rooted problems in the RCMP corporate culture, nor will it do anything to change the current climate in the RCMP.

The Minister of Public Safety does not appear to have taken into account the various recommendations made by the Task Force on Governance and Cultural Change in the RCMP. Bill C-42 simplifies the process of resolving problems in the workplace, a process that many saw as complicated and ill-suited to changes in workplace practices.

In 2007, the Task Force on Governance and Cultural Change in the RCMP described the process as too formal, and an overly legalistic and procedural system. More recently, Commissioner Paulson wrote an open letter to Canadians expressing his concerns about the RCMP's disciplinary system, which he described as outdated and administratively burdensome. These problems limit the disciplinary system's ability to ensure that members' conduct is properly managed and corrected or, when necessary, to see to it that the rotten apples are fired.

Currently, RCMP managers faced with having to address harassment issues have two completely different processes they must follow. The first one was created under Treasury Board policy and the other under the RCMP Act. Since these two policies do not always align, this can lead to some confusion about the rights of the parties involved.

Bill C-42 proposes to give the commissioner the power to establish a single framework for conducting investigations into harassment problems and resolving those problems. The bill will also give the commissioner of the RCMP a new power to decide what disciplinary actions would be appropriate, which will include the power to appoint and discharge members.

The first thing we note is that the Minister of Public Safety has adopted a simplistic solution to a problem that is much broader, by simply giving the commissioner final authority when it comes to dismissing employees, for example. Employees are in fact somewhat concerned about this bill.

The bill does nothing to address unionization by the members of the RCMP. Since the RCMP is the only police force that is not represented by a union and is also not subject to a collective agreement, the Mounted Police Professional Association of Canada has concerns about the job security of members of the RCMP and the extraordinary power given to the commissioner over dismissals. But the Conservatives do not want to address that question at all.

While Bill C-42 gives the commissioner greater ability to establish a more effective process to address harassment problems, and also gives him more power in relation to discipline, it cannot bring about the real change of culture within the RCMP that is needed in order to eliminate harassment and problems relating generally to discipline and the conduct of RCMP officers. The evidence is in what Commissioner Paulson has said himself: that legislation alone is insufficient to restore the public’s trust, and that thorough reform is needed to tackle the serious underlying problems in the RCMP, in order to foster a workplace that is more open and respectful for all its members.

The commissioner has also told the Standing Committee on the Status of Women that the problem goes well beyond the question of sexual harassment.

This situation has to change from top to bottom. I think the minister should have taken the opportunity offered by this bill to include a clear policy to combat sexual harassment. The minister did not consider all of the police and civilian stakeholders. The government is also going to have to pay attention to the findings of the two reports that should clarify the problem of sexual harassment in the RCMP, the problem of the RCMP Public Complaints Commission, and the evaluation of the RCMP on gender issues.

Let us move on to another aspect of the bill, the reform of the former RCMP Public Complaints Commission by establishing a new civilian complaints commission called the Civilian Review and Complaints Commission for the RCMP, and by implementing a new framework for handling investigations of serious incidents involving members.

The bill will establish a new civilian complaints commission for the Royal Canadian Mounted Police to replace the RCMP Public Complaints Commission.

This bill will give the new commission a number of powers, including the power to undertake its own reviews of RCMP policies to ensure that the Minister’s directives and the applicable legislation and rules are being followed. It will provide a right of access to information in the control or possession of the RCMP. It establishes new investigative powers, including the power to compel witnesses and officers to testify, and to require them to produce evidence and documents. It also allows the commission to conduct joint complaint investigations with other police complaints bodies. Lastly, the commission will report to the Minister of Public Safety and the commissioner of the RCMP, and its recommendations will not be binding.

The Conservatives have been promising for years that they are going to make an independent oversight body responsible for investigating complaints against the RCMP, as the Task Force on Governance and Cultural Change in the RCMP recommended. The task force had recommended that a model be adopted under which there would be a body responsible for examining every incident or aspect of RCMP operations that was considered to be problematic and making binding recommendations. With this bill, we can see that the government has not kept its promise.

The “new” civilian complaints commission proposed by this bill bears a strange resemblance to the RCMP Public Complaints Commission, because just like that commission, the new one is unfortunately not totally independent. It reports not to the House of Commons, but to the Minister of Public Safety. We would also have liked more powers to be given to an independent external civilian body, to investigate serious incidents in which death or serious bodily injury is caused by members of the RCMP. That type of investigation will largely be assigned to municipal or provincial police forces, even though many of them have no civilian investigation body, and so, depending on the circumstances, some investigations will continue to be done by the RCMP itself.

Canadians want this type of investigation to be done by a body outside the RCMP. That is how we will enhance Canadians’ confidence in our institution. Bill C-42 does not provide more transparency and better independent oversight of the RCMP. The bill simply leads to a single body that submits its non-binding recommendations to the minister.

We believe that this bill is a step in the right direction, but it does not go far enough. We are therefore going to support it so it can be considered in committee, where we will be proposing amendments.