House of Commons Hansard #128 of the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was s-4.

Topics

Canada PostPetitionsRoutine Proceedings

4:10 p.m.

NDP

David Christopherson NDP Hamilton Centre, ON

Mr. Speaker, Hamiltonians, like millions of Canadians, are angry and outraged over the Conservative plan to end home mail delivery. They know that not only are there going to be thousands of jobs lost and that it is going to hurt a lot of our seniors and disabled citizens, they also know that this is an important service. Canadians consider that it is a part of being Canadian and living in Canada. Losing this is not only losing a service, but it is losing a part of what it is to live in Canada.

I am proud to present, on behalf of the tens of thousands of my constituents who are opposed to this, a petition that outlines their anger, their upset. They are prepared to fight this, and, make no mistake, we in the NDP official opposition are going to stand and fight this everyday also.

Canada PostPetitionsRoutine Proceedings

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Bruce Stanton

As a reminder to all hon. members, normally when we are presenting petitions we do not cross the line around editorializing or adding additional commentary to the feelings of those petitioners who may want to express their opinion. However, I know the hon. member for Hamilton Centre is predisposed to this kind of thing from time to time, and I am sure that his comments are well taken.

Questions on the Order PaperRoutine Proceedings

4:10 p.m.

Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre Saskatchewan

Conservative

Tom Lukiwski ConservativeParliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons

Mr. Speaker, I ask that all questions be allowed to stand.

Questions on the Order PaperRoutine Proceedings

4:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Bruce Stanton

Is that agreed?

Questions on the Order PaperRoutine Proceedings

4:10 p.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

The House resumed consideration of the motion.

Digital Privacy ActGovernment Orders

4:10 p.m.

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB

Mr. Speaker, it is with pleasure that I rise to speak to Bill S-4 this afternoon.

It is an important piece of legislation, as it at least attempts to deal with an issue that many Canadians are quite concerned about. They see the merit of the government introducing legislation on how Canadians can be protected. However, there is also a great deal of concern about the manner in which the Conservative government, as it has in the past, appears to be attempting to overstep concerns related to privacy and protecting the privacy of Canadians.

We have before us Bill S-4 this afternoon. It attempts to deal with and expand warrantless access to subscribers' data. This is an issue which can no doubt be exceptionally controversial. It is something that needs to have more consultation and work with the different stakeholders so that we do not make mistakes.

As suggested in the bill's title, this bill has come from the Senate. There were concerns upon its departure from the Senate and entry into the House regarding the constitutionality of the legislation. I have found that quite often the government will bring legislation into the House in anticipation that it will ultimately pass, yet a great deal of concern has been expressed regarding the degree to which it would be in compliance with Canada's Constitution, the Charter of Rights, and so forth.

Time and time again, I have heard it suggested, and I have suggested it myself, that the government needs to be more forthright in providing information which clearly shows that the legislation it is bringing forward would pass our laws. More often than not, we do not receive the legal opinions from the department giving clear indication that the legislation being debated is in fact constitutional and will pass the Supreme Court. That is important to note, for the simple reason that when the House of Commons passes legislation and it gets challenged, it costs literally millions of dollars, especially if the government has done it wrong.

The idea of seeing Bill S-4 go to the committee is something we are quite comfortable with. Going through the summary of the bill gives us the sense of the scope we are dealing with. The act would amend the Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act to do a litany of things. It covers quite a broad area. We have expressed a great deal of concern about some of it to the Liberal Party critic.

The primary concern we have is ensuring that the privacy of Canadians is being respected. Checks need to be put into place to ensure that there is accountability.

Let me give members a couple of very specific examples of what the legislation is proposing. This comes from the summary of the bill itself. It would “permit the disclosure of personal information without the knowledge or consent of an individual for the purposes of...”

Here it lists some very specific things. These are:

(i) identifying an injured, ill or deceased individual and communicating with their next of kin,

(ii) preventing, detecting or suppressing fraud, or

(iii) protecting victims of financial abuse;

As I said, there are a litany of things. One that really caught my eye and that I think is a very strong positive is related to the Privacy Commissioner. The bill says, “modify the information that the Privacy Commissioner may make it public if he or she considers that it is in the public interest to do so”.

We have seen an expansion of the role, if I can put it that way, of the Privacy Commissioner, and giving more authority to him or her. Through the legislation, we are also seeing more penalties being brought in.

This is not only the first but the second piece of legislation over the last number of months dealing with privacy. It was not that long ago that I was speaking to Bill C-13, the protecting Canadians from online crime act. It deals with cyberbullying. Canadians have little tolerance for cyberbullying and the types of things that take place.

Bill C-13 focuses a great deal of attention on the distribution of pictures without consent onto the Internet. We had some difficulty with Bill C-13, as we do with Bill S-4, but we ultimately ended up supporting the legislation because we recognized how important it was to stop cyberbullying. There were concerns with that legislation just like there are concerns with this particular piece of legislation.

We would like the government to provide more answers and be a bit more transparent about what it hopes to achieve with this legislation. We call upon the government to do just that in anticipation of the bill going to committee where it will be changed in order to provide some comfort to Canadians with respect to their privacy. Privacy is an issue that the Liberal Party takes seriously. Our party critic has had the opportunity to express many of our concerns with regard to it.

Bill S-4 would allow for warrantless requests of companies. Telecom companies and service providers could be approached in order to access personal information.

Over the last decade we have seen an explosion of technology in the computer and Internet areas. Who would have thought 15 or 20 years ago that we would be where we are today? In many ways we are playing catch-up in terms of trying to bring forward legislation in order to protect Canadians. Canadians have great access to the Internet as a whole. Many things are done through the Internet and unfortunately, at times, people are exploited, so we need bills such as Bill S-4 to deal with that.

Today we are talking about corporations getting personal information about people living in Canada who ultimately go to a particular telecom provider. That means company x could request specific information from a telecom provider about a particular customer who is being serviced by that provider. All of us should be concerned about that. All of us should want to do what we can to ensure that the privacy of Canadians is respected and that there are checks in place to ensure no abuse is taking place.

What we are talking about are warrantless requests. People would be surprised to know that in 2011, almost 800,000 warrantless requests by telecom companies were documented. People would be amazed to know the amount of information that leaves Canada through the Internet via, for example, the United States and ultimately comes back into Canada. The U.S. national security agency no doubt has access to a lot of Canadians' personal information.

At the end of the day, the bottom line is that the government has a responsibility to provide assurances to Canadians that their right to privacy is being protected. This is the greatest concern I have as the bill continues to go forward.

The challenge is to ask the government to provide the necessary amendments that would protect and provide assurances to Canadians that their privacy would in fact be protected. I am very concerned that private corporations, on a whim, could say a copyright has been infringed, or there is a perceived illegal activity and then are able to get personal information on Canadians.

Digital Privacy ActGovernment Orders

4:25 p.m.

Conservative

David Wilks Conservative Kootenay—Columbia, BC

Mr. Speaker, I wonder if the member could explain to Canadians the warrantless search between two companies. Certainly, from the perspective where I come from, from the police world, a warrant can only be issued by a judge and a warrantless search is a myth. There is no such thing as a warrantless search. There is an agreement between two parties to share information, but there is no such thing as a warrantless search.

Digital Privacy ActGovernment Orders

4:25 p.m.

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB

Mr. Speaker, the member is somewhat playing with words. An agreement to share information between two companies is a bit of a play on words. We need to recognize that if we get telecom company x talking to private corporation y and y asks for information because it is concerned about copyright infringement, what that means, through an agreement between companies, is very close to a warrantless search where company y is being given personal information.

The member should be concerned about that company sharing personal information. We could ultimately see collection agencies being created based on information that is being provided to a particular company and individuals are being phoned. When they ask, “What is going on here?” Was it because there was an agreement between two companies?

We need to be very concerned. At the very least, let us put some checks in there to protect Canadian consumers.

Digital Privacy ActGovernment Orders

October 20th, 2014 / 4:25 p.m.

NDP

Charmaine Borg NDP Terrebonne—Blainville, QC

Mr. Speaker, I listened to my Liberal colleague's speech with great interest. He seems to be very concerned about protecting Canadians' personal information. That is something we should all be concerned about.

However, when it came time to vote, the Liberal Party supported Bill C-13. I am perplexed. They seem to be saying one thing but voting another. Can the member clarify whether the Liberals plan to support Bill S-4? They are saying one thing now, but will they change their minds when it is time to vote?

Digital Privacy ActGovernment Orders

4:25 p.m.

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB

Mr. Speaker, the member does not seem to understand why the Liberal Party voted in favour of Bill C-13. It was the cyberbullying piece of legislation. Even though we had some concerns with the legislation, as our party critic expressed during debate, we needed to understand and appreciate the desire of a vast majority of Canadians, 95% plus, who recognize it is not appropriate, for example, for an individual to put inappropriate pictures on the Internet without the consent of the person who has been photographed.

It is a form of cyberbullying that needed to be dealt with. It was at least a step in the right direction. Was the legislation perfect? No, if was far from perfect, but at least it was a step in the right direction. Actually, I was quite surprised that the NDP did not recognize the importance of dealing with that particular issue.

Digital Privacy ActGovernment Orders

4:25 p.m.

Green

Elizabeth May Green Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC

Mr. Speaker, I would just like to note, parenthetically, that I disagree with my hon. colleague from Winnipeg North about whether we got the right balance on cyberbullying in Bill C-13.

However, let me get back to Bill S-4. Is it not just a question, more than whether this is a warrantless act or semantics, whether Bill S-4 would withstand a Supreme Court challenge in light of the Spencer decision? I would ask my hon. colleague for his comments.

Digital Privacy ActGovernment Orders

4:25 p.m.

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB

Mr. Speaker, that is why at the beginning of my presentation I commented on the importance of the government providing the necessary legal opinions from within the department to provide assurances that this legislation has been thought out. I know there have been concerns with regard to whether it will end up in the Supreme Court and that we will be back at the drawing board. It is only a question of time.

When the government does not do its homework and fails to ensure that its legislation meets constitutional and charter requirements, it ultimately ends up costing Canadians millions and millions of dollars because it did not do its homework correctly the first time.

As I indicated in my speech, there are areas where Liberals believe the government needs to improve upon in order to ultimately make it even more constitutional.

Digital Privacy ActGovernment Orders

4:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Bruce Stanton

Before we resume debate, it is my duty pursuant to Standing Order 38 to inform the House that the questions to be raised tonight at the time of adjournment are as follows: the hon. member for Thunder Bay—Superior North, Employment; the hon. member for Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, The Environment.

Resuming debate, the hon. member for Calgary Centre.

Digital Privacy ActGovernment Orders

4:30 p.m.

Conservative

Joan Crockatt Conservative Calgary Centre, AB

Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased to rise today in strong support of Bill S-4, the digital privacy act. I am also pleased to be able to tell Canadians young and old, as well as businesses, exactly what this bill would do for them.

Bill S-4 would provide important updates to our private sector privacy law, called the Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act, commonly known as PIPEDA. This bill is all about keeping our laws up to date in the rapidly burgeoning digital economy.

The biggest thrust in the protection of Canadians' online privacy, which we eagerly and sometimes maybe too eagerly jump to use, as this is a place where we go to surf, shop, and sell things, is to improve the protection of people's privacy. Our government understands that for a strong digital economy to work and for people to feel confident using this technology, they have to know that they are receiving those protections.

We have consulted very widely with business, with consumer advocates, and with a lot of real people, like moms and dads, to come up with this bill. Our consultations have shown one thing that is very clear, which is that people value their privacy. It is very important to Canadians. As a country, we regard it as a fundamental right, and we expect our personal information to have certain protections. All of us want to be able to embrace this great opportunity that is the web, and we want to have trust and confidence that our information will be protected when we are out there swiping our credit cards, punching in our PIN and pass codes, and giving out our names and addresses at stores and other places where we do businesses. Really, we are putting the details of our personal lives out there in the hands of businesses and other organizations.

Earlier this year, our government launched Digital Canada 150. This was an ambitious plan to give Canadians confidence that they can take advantage of the full opportunities of the digital age. One of the main pillars of Digital Canada 150 is protecting Canadians, and that is where Bill S-4, which we are talking about today, comes in. It would take what is already one of the world's best privacy regimes and make it even better.

The digital privacy act has five key areas, and I would like to touch on each one and explain for my hon. colleagues why each one is necessary.

The first area is mandatory notification if there are data breaches. These are requirements for companies to let us know if our personal information has been lost and there is a potential to expose us to harm. The time frame companies would be given to do this under this bill would be as soon as was feasible. For example, if a company's computer system was hacked and the clients' credit card information was stolen, the company might need a week to put a fence around it and figure out how many people had been affected and let us, as consumers, know. If the data breach or the hacker was more sophisticated, it might take the company a couple of weeks to figure out everyone who was affected and let us know. There would be some flexibility, but one thing that would be very clear would be that companies could not delay notifying us when there was this kind of breach.

If a company was hacked and it failed to notify clients in the shortest time frame possible, it could be taken to court by the Privacy Commissioner or by individuals. In addition, if a company willfully covered up a data or privacy breach, it could be charged up to $100,000 for every client that had not been notified. We see that these are very significant penalties. Recent revelations that large everyday retailers we deal with, such as Target and Home Depot, were victims of cyberattacks underscores the need for this legislation.

Also, the Privacy Commissioner would have to be notified, so if an organization deliberately covered up a privacy breach or intentionally failed to notify individuals or the Privacy Commissioner, again it could face significant fines.

The second set of changes in Bill S-4 deals with the rules around vulnerable individuals, especially kids.

The government examined this issue very closely as well and talked with experts and other interested parties. Based on this, it put new measures in the digital privacy act that would make it very clear that to give valid consent for information to be collected online, a person's age would have to be taken into account. For example, if one had a website specifically targeted at children and wanted to collect information, one would need to put in something like a pop-up that would say, “before filling in this information, go get your mom and dad”. Children's interests would now be put forward, and that would have to be done using very simple language.

These measures would put more power in the hands of consumers and would keep them better informed when they were out there doing business involving the worldwide web. They would also encourage businesses to adopt better privacy practices.

At the same time as we would be adding new privacy protections, we would also be removing some red tape. The third set of changes would ensure that businesses could collect data they needed to do legitimate business things. I want to stress that these changes would be limited and very much common sense. For instance, believe it or not, right now businesses are breaking the law if they give their own employees' email addresses to customers and clients without the employees' permission. Things like that just do not make sense.

These amendments would let businesses use personal information produced at work; disclose information, such as employees' salaries, that might be important if one were buying or selling a business; use information that might be contained in a witness statement to process an insurance claim; and keep information that is necessary in a regular employee-employer relationship. Businesses would be able to use this information to support normal day-to-day business activities, but, and there is a big but, they would still have to make sure that the privacy of that information was protected and not compromised. If they did not play by the rules, companies could be named and shamed and taken to court and fined.

The fourth group of amendments would allow certain information to be shared without necessarily first allowing for a person's consent if it was shown to be in the public interest or in that person's interest to do so. It would harmonize federal law with Quebec law, Alberta law, and British Columbia's private sector data protection acts.

One might ask what kind of instance that would be. For example, it would protect seniors from financial abuse if a bank noticed that there was some untoward activity going on in their accounts. It would allow emergency, police, or medical officials to communicate with a person's family if the person were injured or deceased.

Who would enforce all of this?

PIPEDA is enforced by the Privacy Commissioner of Canada, who acts like an ombudsman and who would get stronger tools in this legislation. The Privacy Commissioner could turn a matter over to the Federal Court if an organization were breaking the rules, and the court could levy fines and order the company to clean up its act. As well, citizens could personally take companies to Federal Court to order them to change their practices or could ask the court to award personal damages.

The bill would also boost the time available for a complaint if one was going to take an organization to court. It used to be 45 days, but under this proposed legislation, it would grow to a year.

Finally, the digital privacy act would create a new tool that would be an alternative to court action. The Privacy Commissioner could negotiate a binding deal with a company to make significant changes to comply with the legislation in exchange for not being taken to court.

This is all about confidence. It is about the consumer having confidence when having their personal information used so that they can do trade and commerce. They can surf the web. They can buy and sell with confidence and know that they and their families are safe online.

Bill S-4 would provide the necessary updates we need to privacy laws to protect consumers. It is a major part of our government's digital economic strategy, Digital Canada 150, and I urge all hon. members in this House to join with me and support this important piece of legislation.

Digital Privacy ActGovernment Orders

4:40 p.m.

NDP

Charmaine Borg NDP Terrebonne—Blainville, QC

Mr. Speaker, I heard several of the Conservative members' speeches. They gave 10-minute speeches on Bill S-4. That is nice, but we are debating a motion to refer it to committee before second reading. I did not hear a single member explain why that would be necessary.

My New Democratic and Liberal colleagues said that they hope to be able to fix some of the legislative problems with the bill before us. The Conservatives want us to send it to committee, but they do not seem to be acknowledging that their bill is problematic.

Can the member tell Canadians why the government is using an unusual measure to send this bill to committee? So far, the Conservative government has not explained its intentions at all.

Digital Privacy ActGovernment Orders

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

Joan Crockatt Conservative Calgary Centre, AB

Mr. Speaker, that is an interesting question, particularly because I know that the opposition might be hesitant to admit it, but in all likelihood, it will be voting in favour of sending the bill to committee, where we will have the opportunity to have a thorough hearing. That is something that, generally, the opposition is more than happy to do in the event that it supports a bill. I look forward to the opposition's support for it.

Digital Privacy ActGovernment Orders

4:40 p.m.

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB

Mr. Speaker, I wonder if the member would comment on information between two companies, one a telecom and the other a private corporation that might have some dealings with that telecom company. There is an agreement between the two. One has concerns with respect to a copyright infringement issue and asks for information regarding one of the telecom's customers. Does the member share any concerns regarding the telecom company not having gone through any form of warrant or anything of this nature and could transfer literally millions of pieces of information to a private corporation? How would that protect the private interests of the everyday Canadian who is on the web?

Digital Privacy ActGovernment Orders

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

Joan Crockatt Conservative Calgary Centre, AB

Mr. Speaker, this is a fairly detailed question. I think it is one that would need to be looked at under the provisions.

However, it is clear that what is being put in place is a fence around information so that a person's privacy would be protected. The provisions in the bill would allow businesses to share information in the normal course of business in a very limited way. They are things that would actually be required for that business to be conducted. It would not involve something like a major search through data to look for information on a large number of consumers. This would be something that would be more specific to being able to conduct day-to-day business, something that consumers would expect when they are doing business with a corporation. Again, this is about giving consumers the confidence they need that when they are dealing with a company and are providing that personal information, they have first-world, highest order protection. That is the goal of this bill.

Digital Privacy ActGovernment Orders

4:40 p.m.

NDP

Charmaine Borg NDP Terrebonne—Blainville, QC

Mr. Speaker, I would like to go back to the previous question.

The member said that it was perfectly okay and normal to share information. She wants to convince people that the government is putting up a fence around Canadians' personal information.

However, is she aware that this bill proposes exactly the opposite? Does she really think that private companies can share personal information without ensuring that the information is appropriately protected, without any transparency and without a system to ensure that this happens only under certain circumstances?

None of those elements is in place. Does she really think that we are going in the right direction?

I wonder if this is really what the government should do to protect personal information. I think it is exactly the opposite.

Digital Privacy ActGovernment Orders

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

Joan Crockatt Conservative Calgary Centre, AB

Mr. Speaker, again, I think the intention of the bill is absolutely to address those kinds of consumer questions. This is what consumers want and expect from our government. We already have a high degree of privacy protection, but the bill would take it one step further.

We want to know that we can do business, that we can provide our information to the companies that are reputable and that we are used to doing business with, that the information will be protected, and that there are rules around it if there are privacy breaches. I think what most Canadians are actually concerned about is hackers and that kind of thing getting into a legitimate business' information system and how the consumer would be protected.

This law would strongly encourage businesses, through a large number of provisions, including very substantial fines, to make sure that they are upping their privacy provisions to make sure that they are protecting Canadians online.

Again, I would urge the members opposite to support this bill.

Digital Privacy ActGovernment Orders

4:45 p.m.

NDP

Marie-Claude Morin NDP Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to rise today to speak to the motion to refer Bill S-4, the Digital Privacy Act, to a committee before second reading. I would also like to take this opportunity to congratulate my colleague from Terrebonne—Blainville, who has done such an outstanding job on this file.

Bill S-4 has a number of shortcomings and must be amended, which is why we would like to send this bill to committee before second reading.

I will give some details about the bill in order to put it in context. Bill S-4 amends the Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act to compel private sector organizations to disclose any loss or breach of personal information. So far, so good. It also sets out sanctions to be imposed on organizations that fail to comply with that obligation. Again, so far, so good.

However, the proposed criterion for mandatory reporting is subjective, because it allows organizations to determine themselves whether it is:

...reasonable in the circumstances to believe that the breach creates a real risk of significant harm to an individual.

In my opinion, this major flaw in the bill needs to be corrected. Why make laws if we are going to ask the organizations to enforce them themselves? I have my doubts. That is like giving a minister full power. That does not work either.

Bill S-4 would also give the Privacy Commissioner new powers to enter into compliance agreements with organizations that, according to the Commissioner, have failed to respect the provisions in the legislation, leaving the personal information of Canadians vulnerable. So far, so good.

Bill S-4 adds exceptions under which personal information may be collected, used or disclosed without an individual’s consent. The bill would make it easier for organizations to share personal information with each other without the consent of individuals, if the organizations are engaged in a process leading to a prospective business transaction.

The NDP absolutely disagrees with this type of provision. It is really not good for consumers. People will receive more advertising and unsolicited communications. We do not really need that in our consumerist society.

In other words, the bill allows an organization to disclose private client information under certain circumstances. If a company has my private information, for example, it can share it with another company, which can then do whatever it wants with that information. The next thing I know, I am receiving ads, or other unwanted things, at home. I do not think that is right. That is a very significant flaw in the bill.

Bill S-4 also amends provisions in the law that define the situations in which a person whose private information has been lost or compromised by a security breach can apply to the Federal Court for a hearing after receiving the Commissioner’s report or having been informed of the end of the complaint investigation. The bill extends the timeframe from 45 days to one year for a complainant to make an application to the court. I have to admit, that is a useful provision because it gives people more time to figure things out. It gives them a chance to analyze the situation and make a decision about whether to go or not go to court.

Bill S-4 also requires organizations to maintain a record of all breaches of security safeguards involving personal information under their control. This record could eventually be audited by the Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada. Again, I see some small flaws that open the door to subjectivity. I am not convinced of the merits of this provision.

My party and I are extremely concerned about the fact that Bill S-4 contains a provision that allows organizations to more easily share personal information without a warrant, without the consent of the clients and without an appropriate oversight mechanism. That is very worrisome and should be amended right away.

Given a recent Supreme Court of Canada decision, this provision will very likely be deemed unconstitutional. It is therefore important that the government comply with the Supreme Court's decision and remove from the bill all clauses relating to the warrantless disclosure of personal information.

The government has a very poor track record when it comes to protecting personal information. Although Bill S-4 contains some good provisions, it will not erase the past. The bill must therefore be amended so that it really meets the needs of Canadians and complies with international privacy standards.

In just one year, under this Prime Minister's government, government organizations secretly made over 1.2 million requests to telecommunications companies for personal information without a warrant and without proper oversight. I think that is all I need to say for people to understand that this is a concern. The government should have taken advantage of the opportunity afforded by Bill S-4 to correct the flaws that led to many violations of Canadians' privacy.

Finally, because of the government's inaction, the law has not been updated since the introduction of the new generation of iPods, iPads, iPhones and the like. We have fallen far behind in terms of international standards. Bill S-4 therefore does not go far enough and does not make the proper amendments to adequately protect Canadians in today's digital age.

There is still much to be done to adequately protect the privacy of Canadians. The government would do well to take this issue seriously.

Digital Privacy ActGovernment Orders

4:55 p.m.

Conservative

David Wilks Conservative Kootenay—Columbia, BC

Mr. Speaker, the member referred to the Spencer decision, as the opposition members have been doing, and they also interrelate it to PIPEDA, which has absolutely nothing to do with the Spencer decision. Could the member please provide the House with some evidence that links Spencer to PIPEDA, because I cannot find it.

Digital Privacy ActGovernment Orders

4:55 p.m.

NDP

Marie-Claude Morin NDP Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC

Mr. Speaker, unfortunately I do not have any documentation to provide to my colleague at this time, but I will look at this issue with the members who worked on the file and I will be pleased to send what I find to my colleague across the way.

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4:55 p.m.

Green

Elizabeth May Green Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC

Mr. Speaker, in response to the question from my hon. friend from Kootenay—Columbia, perhaps my hon. colleague from the official opposition would find it helpful to refer to the opinion of Michael Geist, who is an expert in this area of law, cited with approval by the minister in Debates just before we broke. He has said that the Supreme Court of Canada decision on Spencer is directly on point and that the Supreme Court rejected the view advanced by government ministers. The government argued in committee that:

In the instance of PIPEDA, because of the type of information provided in a pre-warrant phase, such as basic subscriber information, it would be consistent with privacy expectations and therefore it's not really putting telecoms, for example, in some unique position in terms of police investigations.

Professor Geist went on to say that the Supreme Court of Canada rejected this view in terms of Spencer, concluding that “there is a reasonable expectation of privacy in the subscriber information”. Therefore, there is a very clear link between the reasoning of the Spencer decision and the bill before us, Bill S-4.