Debates of Feb. 4th, 2014

Opposition Motion—Communications Security Establishment Canada

[Peter Kent, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I will be sharing my time with the member for Pickering—Scarborough East.

I am very pleased to have this opportunity to discuss the valuable work of the Communications Security Establishment Canada, known as CSEC, including its work in protecting Canada against foreign cyber threats. What we need in order to have an informed and reasoned debate about the role of Canada's security and intelligence agencies are the facts. At the risk of repeating what my hon. colleagues have already said, here again are some key facts about CSEC, an agency which many Canadians may know little about.

For almost 70 years now, CSEC has provided legitimate, necessary, and valuable services to the Government of Canada and Canadians. CSEC's collection of foreign intelligence makes an invaluable contribution to the pursuit of Canada's international affairs, its defence and security interests. In concrete terms, CSEC's foreign intelligence activities have helped uncover terrorist plots. They have helped save Canadian lives and have protected Canadians from other foreign threats.

CSEC helps protect Government of Canada information and computer networks from cyber threats. CSEC helps federal law enforcement and security partners with technical assistance that is lawful under its mandate. CSEC is subject to all Canadian laws, including the National Defence Act, the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, the Criminal Code, and the Privacy Act. What CSEC can and cannot do is well defined in law.

Protecting the privacy of Canadians is the law and CSEC follows the letter and spirit of that law. CSEC's activities are subject to a comprehensive and detailed set of policies, procedures, and mechanisms that ensure that CSEC remains compliant with the law. All of CSEC's activities are reviewed by the CSE commissioner. This commissioner, as we have said many times today, is independent of the government and of CSEC, and does not take direction from any minister or from CSEC itself.

All CSE commissioners, past and present, have been long-serving judges, including several former justices of the Supreme Court, whose integrity, independence, impartiality, and judgment are beyond reproach. The conclusions of all past CSE commissioners, in each of their public annual reports, have been that CSEC has never been found to have acted unlawfully. These are key facts. If we are to have a public debate about the role of CSEC and the appropriate oversight and review mechanisms for it, then let us discuss it based on facts.

Before I move on, I want to remind my hon. colleagues that CSEC and its employees are required by law, specifically the Security of Information Act, to keep the government's intelligence capabilities and activities secret. These requirements are in place for a good reason: to prevent potential adversaries, such as terrorists or foreign states, from knowing our capabilities and taking countermeasures against them.

My hon. colleagues and Canadians should be aware of the valuable service that CSEC provides each and every day. Specifically, I would like to highlight how CSEC stands at the front line in the battle against foreign cyber threats that target Canadian computer systems and networks on a daily basis. It should be obvious to all just how important information technology and the networks and systems they connect to have become in our daily lives.

At virtually every member's desk in the House, one sees hon. colleagues with laptops, tablets, smart phones, and other devices. With these marvels of modern technology, we can communicate directly and instantly with constituents by email, or broadcast to the world with a tweet. Canada and its economy are increasingly dependent on cyberspace and all it provides. It underpins the fundamental functioning of our economy today, including how the government increasingly provides services to citizens, and the daily operation of Canada's critical infrastructure.

As individuals, we are also increasingly plugged in. In fact, 85% of Canadians are online. Canadians spend more time online than citizens of any other country. Undoubtedly, we as a country and an economy rely on all of the benefits that cyberspace provides.

However excited we get about the next new smart phone or the newest app, we are also increasingly aware of the threats that lurk in cyberspace. These are threats to our personal data, to the government's most sensitive information, and to the very functioning of the vital cybersystems we depend upon as a society.

We know that cyberthreat individuals or organizations can range from hacktivists trying to make a statement, to criminals trying to tap into the lucrative cybercrime market, to terrorists using the Internet to recruit, plan, network, and fundraise, and to nation states that have the motivations and the resources to conduct long-term cyberespionage campaigns for the collection of intelligence.

Recognizing the importance of cyberthreats, this government released Canada's cybersecurity strategy in 2010, which provides a strategic framework for government action to secure the government's own systems, to work with the private sector and with other levels of government protecting critical infrastructure, and to help Canadians be secure online.

CSEC plays a critical role in achieving the first objective, securing the government's own systems. CSEC also helps government departments, like Shared Services Canada, to detect and to discover cyberthreats that probe and attempt to compromise government computer networks on a nearly constant basis. In fact, government systems are probed, we are told, millions of times a day. In this role, CSEC helps to ensure government information, which ranges from sensitive intelligence to the personal information of Canadians, remains out of the hands of foreign cyberthreat actors.

In addition, as the government transforms its information technology infrastructure, CSEC is helping Shared Services Canada ensure that security is built in right from the start. Security considerations are being baked into the design and procurement of the government's new email system, for example. Through such advice, CSEC will help ensure that the government's future systems and the personal information potentially contained therein will be less vulnerable from cyberthreats.

CSEC's contribution to Canadian cybersecurity is also unique, and this is because CSEC, through its lawful foreign signals intelligence activities, is able to understand foreign cyberthreats before they can target Canadian systems. By collecting foreign signals intelligence, CSEC allows the government to recognize malware and viruses and other devices unknown to commercial cybersecurity services.

Of course, as with all of its activities, CSEC must conduct its cyberprotection mission with great care, with adherence to all Canadian laws, and in compliance with extensive internal policies, procedures, and mechanisms that are in place, including those to ensure the ever-important privacy of Canadians.

Again, protecting the privacy of Canadians is the law, and CSEC follows the letter and the spirit of that law.

I should also remind all hon. members of this important note: CSEC is prohibited from targeting the communications of persons in Canada or Canadians anywhere under its foreign intelligence and cyberprotection mandates.

To ensure full compliance, the independent CSE commissioner has free rein to review all of CSEC's activities for lawfulness, and he does so on a regular basis. In fact, the CSE commissioner has recently praised CSEC's chiefs who, “...have spared no effort to instill within CSEC a culture of respect for the law and for the privacy of Canadians”. The commissioner writes, “I can say with pride and confidence that CSEC is truly being watched”.

Let me close by reminding my hon. colleagues and all Canadians of the invaluable role that Canada's security and intelligence organizations like CSEC play in protecting Canadians and Canadian interests from threats such as those emanating from cyberspace.

[Andrew Cash, NDP, Davenport, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my hon. colleague's eloquent speech gave us a bit of a history lesson on what CSEC is supposed to be about and the ways in which it is supposed to go about its operations, and yet we hear revelations quite to the contrary.

I want to read a quote from Ron Deibert, who heads the world-renowned Citizen Lab, the research program at U of T's Munk centre. He says that, whatever CSEC calls it, the tracking of those passengers at Canadian airports was nothing less than “indiscriminate collection and analysis of Canadians' communications data”. He says that he could not imagine any circumstances that would have convinced a judge to authorize it.

We are debating a motion that would require Parliament to give greater oversight to this body, and actions that have been revealed recently suggest that we desperately need it.

Given the evidence and the questions that are coming up, does my colleague not think that is cause for grave concern and greater oversight?

[Peter Kent, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I would raise and counter the member's question with one of my own: Exactly what evidence does he think he is presenting in the House? Let us remember that we are here today and in this debate today because of a story by the CBC that is based on stolen intelligence material, purchased under the guise of hiring a freelance journalist, who by the way is a former purveyor of pornography.

CSEC issued a statement yesterday saying that the story reported by the CBC was both misleading and that it hurt Canadian interests. CSEC said:

The classified document in question is a technical presentation between specialists exploring mathematical models built on everyday scenarios to identify and locate foreign terrorist threats

The most important line in the statement from CSEC yesterday was:

The unauthorized disclosure of tradecraft puts our techniques at risk of being less effective when addressing threats to Canada and Canadians.

[Bruce Hyer, Green, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

Mr. Speaker, recently released documents show that Canadian security agencies interfered with our international ally in Brazil by hacking into mining companies, that they co-operated with the CIA to get involved in the G20 in Toronto and hacked some of the participants in that, that they handed over control of the encryption standards to the CIA, and that they have handed over other materials to crack encryption codes to the NSA in the United States.

Individual Canadians would be prosecuted for any of these things. Does the member think that the government should be above the law? If not, who should be, and which ministers okayed this? If no ministers okayed this, who did okay this stuff?

[Peter Kent, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I am not here to comment today on operational practices, methods, or capabilities. I am here to respond to the motion as put by my colleague from Malpeque.

I would just point out that, in the motion, he says that he has placed his motion on the order paper to “increase proper oversight of CSEC” and security agencies. The key word there is that the oversight is proper. It is in place. The government believes that the CSE commissioner, in the case of CSEC, represents a robust and reliable oversight that Canadians can rest assured is protecting their interests.

[Corneliu Chisu, Conservative, Pickering—Scarborough East, ON]

Mr. Speaker, it is my pleasure to join today's debate on the Communications Security Establishment of Canada, CSEC. I would like to take this opportunity to underline the important role that the Communications Security Establishment of Canada plays in protecting Canada and Canadians. Last night, the chief of CSEC appeared before a parliamentary committee to speak to the lawfulness of CSEC activities. He clearly explained how CSEC works to keep Canadians safe and explained the agency's continued commitment to lawfulness and privacy. I was very happy to have CSEC behind me when I was fighting in Afghanistan with the Canadian army.

In other words, CSEC operates within all Canadian laws. Protecting the privacy of Canadians is the law, and CSEC follows the letter and spirit of that law. Under both its foreign intelligence and cyberprotection mandates, CSEC does not target Canadians anywhere in the world or any person in Canada. CSEC may also lawfully assist federal law enforcement and security agencies under their specific legal authorities; for example, any applicable court warrants. All of the CSEC activities are reviewed by the independent CSE commissioner, who has never found CSEC to have acted unlawfully. In fact, he has specifically noted CSEC's culture of lawful compliance and genuine concern for protecting the privacy of Canadians.

Let me further emphasize that the foreign intelligence activities of CSEC are critical to fulfilling the government's commitment to address emerging threats to our sovereignty and economy, posed by terrorist cyberattacks, while ensuring that Canadians' fundamental privacy rights are protected.

Government has no higher calling than the protection of our sovereignty and our citizens. Canadians understand that this means we require serious capabilities to deal with serious threats. Today, Canadians face vastly different threats to our security, threats that rely on blending in with the everyday to evade detection.

Terrorists, hostage takers, and others who seek to harm Canadians or the interests of our country use the Internet and other modern communications technologies to plan, recruit, and carry out their plots. In the face of this threat, CSEC plays an integral role in protecting Canada and Canadians against terrorism. By targeting and intercepting foreign communications, decoding them, and then analyzing them, CSEC detects the activities of foreign terrorist networks and their operational plans. In fact, the agency's efforts have revealed plots to attack Canadians and allied personnel overseas before these plans could be executed. It has also uncovered foreign-led efforts to attract, radicalize, and train individuals to carry out attacks in Canada.

Although the days of the Cold War may be over, the threat to our security and our economy from foreign espionage still exists. Last week, the Canadian Security Intelligence Service highlighted once again that a number of foreign intelligence agencies continue to gather political, economic, and military information in Canada through clandestine means. CSEC has helped to identify and defend our country's interests against the actions of these hostile foreign intelligence agencies.

Our government has advanced several key efforts to enhance our perimeter security. These efforts rely on the latest in foreign intelligence about the illicit transfer of people, money, and goods. CSEC is an important provider of this vital intelligence. In any state, a strong economy is integral to national security. Foreign intelligence provided by CSEC is critical to securing Canada's interests by providing context about global events and crises that can impact Canada's economy and our foreign relations.

As outlined in the last budget, our government believes that innovation is a keystone of economic growth. The protection of the intellectual property of Canadian businesses from cyberthreats is paramount to ensuring Canada's continued economic prosperity. Further, we must protect Canada's critical infrastructure, on which we all rely, from the danger posed by cyberthreats.

I should note that CSEC never shares foreign intelligence with Canadian companies for their commercial advantage.

Of course, CSEC's foreign intelligence work is also based on a long history of support to our military and contributes to the protection of our deployed Canadian men and women overseas, whether they are in uniform or in civilian service to our country. I thank CSEC for protecting me while I was in Afghanistan.

Further, the unique technical capabilities of CSEC are also often harnessed in the service of our law enforcement and security agencies. These agencies may lawfully request that CSEC provide technical and operational assistance in their investigations under the local authorities, such as court warrants. This means that CSEC also contributes to Canada's domestic security.

Every day, the efforts of the talented men and women who work at Communications Security Establishment Canada help to ensure our nation's prosperity, security, and stability. Their success is hard won and depends on their ability to keep one step ahead of foreign targets overseas. This means that these foreign targets need to remain unaware of the methods and technology that may be used against them.

It is, however, also important that Canadians have a general sense of the activities taking place at CSEC and how they better protect them. As a stand-alone agency since 2011, more information is available than ever before on the activities of the organization. It appears in the public accounts and in the parliamentary estimates.

To take this further, the organization has also taken significant steps to provide additional information through its public website, and its officials are always ready to appear before committee to answer important questions, just as the Chief of CSEC did last night.

I would like to once again repeat that the foreign intelligence activities of CSEC are conducted in full compliance with Canadian law. This important work is always undertaken with the utmost concern for protecting the privacy of Canadians, which is CSEC's most important operational consideration. In the words of the independent CSE Commissioner, “...the protection of the privacy of Canadians is, in the eyes of CSEC and its employees, a genuine concern”. The ongoing work of the independent CSE Commissioner and his staff will continue to provide robust reviews of CSEC activities.

By providing valuable foreign intelligence, CSEC contributes significantly to Canada's own security and to that of the global community. Canadians can continue to count on this organization's efforts to safeguard the security of Canada from foreign threats while, at the same time, it acts in full accordance with the law and protects the privacy of Canadians.

[Murray Rankin, NDP, Victoria, BC]

Mr. Speaker, we are having a debate on the oversight mechanism for CSEC, and this member went on and on about the threats to the security of Canada being very real.

I entirely agree with that and thank him for those observations. I was a member of the first team of lawyers advising the Security Intelligence Review Committee. I have top secret clearance from that work. I know exactly of what he speaks.

However, that is not what this debate is about. It is about whether Canadians should simply take him at his word, the soothing words that all is right because we get a statement from the commissioner and his staff every year saying, “Don't worry; be happy”. We are not. We are worried, and we are not happy about what we have recently learned.

Therefore, the question on the floor for debate today is this: why can Canada not join with its other allies and have a parliamentary oversight body to allow us to know what is going on?

[Corneliu Chisu, Conservative, Pickering—Scarborough East, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my colleague speaks about the importance of what he calls oversight. We have oversight by the commissioner. We must trust our democratic institutions. Yes, we should trust our democratic institutions more than the CBC. The CBC has put forward only allegations.

I have full trust in CSEC. I will take this opportunity to mention briefly Sir William Samuel Stephenson, a great Canadian intelligence officer. He first enrolled in the Corps of Engineers, my corps, and was best known by his wartime intelligence code name, Intrepid. His role in the success of the allies against Nazi Germany is well known.

Why I am referring to him in answer to the hon. member's question is because CSEC is built on a great tradition of respecting the laws of the land and at the same time, as Intrepid did, protecting the security of Canadians in a quickly evolving world where industrial espionage, cyberthreats, and the terrorist threat are real issues.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

Mr. Speaker, the member for Pickering—Scarborough East said that the success of CSEC was hard won. I agree with that. It does a good job. However, I can assure the member that its success will only be maintained if it has the confidence of Canadians. That is what this debate is about today. Confidence in CSEC and the other intelligence-gathering agencies is being undermined by the metadata issue and the Snowden information. It was not just from the CBC; it was based on the Snowden revelations that have come out.

The other thing that is undermining the confidence of Canadians in CSEC is the fact that everyone on the government side is resistant to even looking at parliamentary oversight, which two of its current ministers originally agreed to.

In a party that cries often about the protection of privacy, are there any members on the government side who have an independent thought and can speak for themselves?

[Corneliu Chisu, Conservative, Pickering—Scarborough East, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I understand that my colleague from Malpeque has some concerns. For his information, the activities of CSEC are regularly reviewed by an independent watchdog who has consistently found it to have acted lawfully. We should trust the person who has been appointed and trust our democratic institutions.

The Honourable Jean-Pierre Plouffe, the CSEC independent watchdog, said this last week:

As Commissioner, I am independent of the government and of CSEC, and as such do not take direction from any minister of the crown or from CSEC.

He also stated:

In light of the most recent unauthorized disclosure of classified information of the Communications Security Establishment Canada, I can state that I am aware of the metadata activities referred to. ...CSEC is only allowed to use metadata to understand the global information infrastructure, for the purpose of providing intelligence on foreign entities located outside Canada and to protect computer systems of importance to the government of Canada.

Should we respect our democratic institutions?

[Francis Scarpaleggia, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Louis, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I will be sharing my time with the hon. member for Mount Royal.

Before I begin, I would like to comment on two phrases that have repeatedly emerged from the other side of the House. The first phrase is, “we are told”. The second phrase is, “we should trust”.

This is what the motion is all about. It is to turn “we are told” into “we are satisfied that we know” and “we should trust” into “we can trust because we have the oversight of a body made up of those for whom people in Canada voted and then sent to this House of Commons”.

There are two premises I think we should be debating today.

The first is that Liberals have always been vigilant about the need to protect Canadians' security, and any assertion to the contrary would be, in my view, disingenuous. We are the ones who introduced anti-terrorism legislation after 9-11, and we supported recent amendments to this legislation. These were controversial, of course, but we believed that they were the right thing to do. We supported the amendments and believed that they achieved the appropriate delicate balance between constitutionally guaranteed civil liberties and the need to protect Canadians' physical security from the harm terrorists would cause us.

The second premise we should be debating is that Liberals respect the judicial system. We do not introduce legislation that we know will be negated or nullified later on by the courts. It is not only a waste of time to approach the drafting of legislation in this way, with an eye to ideology rather than to established legal principles, it is counterproductive as well, often setting the putative objective even further back than when the particular legislation was passed.

As an aside, I would like to mention that the committee we are proposing is the committee that was proposed under the Martin government previously, but the legislation was not debated or adopted.

I would like to mention that this committee would also overlook the activities of CSIS and the RCMP. We are not just talking about CSEC. We have been talking a lot about CSEC today, because it has been in the news. However, there are other security establishments in Canada that require that we have some kind of oversight to ensure their accountability to democratic principles. Therefore, there would be not only a double benefit but a triple benefit from this committee.

We know that these agencies are not perfect. We know that people are not perfect. They can wilfully break the law, or if not technically break the law can violate the spirit of the law or even violate the letter and spirit of the law without necessarily knowing that it is what they are doing.

In the United States, for example, there have been many reported cases of private communications being unlawfully intercepted on very flimsy or totally unwarranted grounds, despite safeguards that have been built into the system. The BC Civil Liberties Association and others have provided many examples of these breaches.

We are talking basically about technology. The thing about technology is that it begs to be used. It was created to be used, and it is very seductive in this way. We have to create safeguards to ensure that it is used appropriately and lawfully. However, creating and enforcing safeguards is an ongoing challenge that constantly requires new defences and new legal and institutional tools, like this committee we are proposing.

I would like to look at the incident that took place earlier but that was reported by CBC last weekend. CBC reported that communications were being tracked at Canadian airports by CSEC. I would like to look at this from the point of view of citizens like me who are not part of the organization and who are not in the ministry that is managing this organization. I would like to look at it from that point of view and try to understand what it all means and what is going on in this complex, mysterious, and murky new cyber-reality.

We are told time and time again that CSEC is not allowed to spy on Canadians, so we ask ourselves, what was it doing tracking Canadians in their airports? The response seems to be that CSEC can track Canadians if it is tracking foreigners who happen to be engaged in communications with Canadians.

However, how does CSEC know who is Canadian and who is not at a Canadian airport? Can we not assume that most are Canadians travelling to points within Canada? To that, CSEC might say that it was doing nothing more than conducting a digital traffic survey for model building purposes, just like looking at cars passing through an intersection and observing licence plates without knowing who the cars belong to.

To that we might ask, why are they following those cars for two days after they leave the intersection? CSEC might say there is no law against that, but do we want to live in a society that follows its citizens around, whether on the ground or in cyberspace? This is not the former Soviet Union; this is Canada.

Another question is, why was CSEC doing this on Canadian soil when its mandate does not allow it to operate in Canada and to track Canadians directly? Yesterday the answer that seemed to be offered at the Senate committee was that this was not done on Canadian soil, but by monitoring traffic on servers located outside of Canada. In other words, this traffic, which includes traffic at Canadian airports, is on the open seas, as it were. These are technicalities and loopholes that fuel Canadians' growing distrust. We are in essence being told, sorry we should have read the fine print. That, as in other areas, fuels resentment, bitterness, and distrust.

There is a question that I would like to ask the government. Why is it so opposed to this rather simple proposal? Other countries have mechanisms for oversight of security agencies that are made up of elected representatives. General principles of democratic accountability maintain that no one can act without the authority of the people or some kind of democratic licence being granted by the people, which they will grant in exchange for accountability that prevents abuse and allows them to judge if they wish to withdraw that licence later on.

There is virtually no cost to creating a national security committee of parliamentarians. First of all, it would not meet every week. Second, it would likely not travel. I doubt that it would do site visits in this cyberworld that we are concerned about. A Library of Parliament clerk and researchers could be seconded from other committees, say the Public Safety committee or the National Defence committee. Existing MP staffers would provide support to individual committee members. Members also would be bound by some measure of confidentiality, such that the government would not need to worry about being criticized or embarrassed in question period on any given day.

In other words, what is the downside for the government in creating such a committee, other than having to agree with what was originally a Liberal proposal under the Martin government? If the other side wants to be non-partisan, why not simply agree to an idea that came from a previous government just because it is a good idea? Is the government that prideful and that insecure and defensive that it feels it would be compromising itself, its cherished brand that it supports through taxpayer advertising, by doing what is right in respect of fundamental democratic principles?

Our security depends not only on the abilities and competencies of our national security authorities, but on the co-operation and backing of the Canadian population. We are told this constantly by CSIS and others, that they need the co-operation of the people of Canada. However, how are they going to maintain that co-operation if they cannot win people's trust?

[James Bezan, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of National Defence]

Mr. Speaker, I want again to remind everyone that we should not be fearmongering and getting Canadians worried that their privacy is at risk. Communications Security Establishment Canada, CSEC, only targets its activities on non-Canadians and abroad. It is trying to protect our border. It is trying to empower our military and supporting the Afghanistan mission. It is protecting this country from cyberattacks. It is prohibited by law from doing any surveillance of Canadians at home or abroad.

All the talk that is coming from the other side is not factual. They are false allegations. We know from the comments by the commissioner himself, who oversees independently the activities of CSEC, that he is satisfied that the organization has a culture of respecting the privacy of Canadians. I want to make sure that the member understands that and that everything it does is in accordance with the laws of Canada.

[Francis Scarpaleggia, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Louis, QC]

Mr. Speaker, there were many interesting points raised by my hon. colleague in that question.

First, how do we know what the culture is inside CSEC? We have no window into that organization. That is what this motion is all about, to get a window into the organization, and then we can judge what the culture is like.

Second, we are not fearmongering. Canadians are very suspicious of these new technologies and their ability to track their activities, not only in terms of what CSEC or CSIS is doing, but in terms of any other entity, or individuals, who could hack into systems and track movements of people because of some function they forgot to shut down on their BlackBerry or whatever. There is a fear out there, within all people, quite frankly, about where this new technology is taking us. It is not all about CSEC, and it is not all about CSIS.

[Peggy Nash, NDP, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank my colleague for his remarks on this opposition day motion and thank the member for Malpeque for introducing this on behalf of his party.

I believe that Canadians are concerned about the possibility that their private communications are being monitored and that perhaps we do not have proper oversight over CSEC. I remember a recent debate at the finance committee. In a budget implementation act, one of these omnibus budget bills, the government decided to eliminate the position of the inspector general, which was a full-time oversight position over CSIS, and to replace that with a position as a member of the board. We were warned at the committee that this was not proper oversight, but the government went ahead with it anyway.

Given that we, as average Canadians, cannot monitor the security agencies, we need to be assured that those who are set up to monitor our security agencies are doing so appropriately. We need to have confidence in that.

My question for the member is this. In 2005, when then Liberal defence minister Bill Graham signed the directive to allow CSEC to collect metadata, does the member think there were appropriate checks and balances established at that time?

[Francis Scarpaleggia, Liberal, Lac-Saint-Louis, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I was not in the government in 2005 and am not familiar with that directive and all the associated safeguards.

However, the point that we have to remember is that this is not 2005; this is 2014. Nine years later, things have evolved, and we have seen the possibilities that new technologies offer, technologies that did not exist in 2005.

However, I thank the hon. member for her question. It was obviously a well thought-out question.

[Irwin Cotler, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I rise in support of the motion standing in the name of my colleague, the member for Malpeque, expressing the House's concern over reports that Communications Security Establishment Canada has engaged in improper practices, including the monitoring of Canadians, and calling for parliamentary oversight of CSEC through the measures outlined in Bill C-551, the national security committee of parliamentarians act. Indeed, I was one of those who, some 10 years ago, recommended the establishment of such a committee.

Others have risen to contextualize today's debate, citing recent media reports that CSEC accessed the metadata of passengers at airports in Canada using airport Wi-Fi, an activity which would be beyond CSEC's mandate and which would infringe upon the privacy rights of Canadians. Rather than discuss these reports at length or dwell on the technical questions surrounding the proper use of metadata, I will organize my remarks around a discussion of the foundational principles that should exist in our discussion of anti-terrorism law, practice, and policy, and their impact on matters of privacy, personal and collected.

As I have written elsewhere, the foundational principle should be that of human security, which does not see security and rights as a zero-sum or trade-off exercise, but which is inclusive of both security and human rights and is organized around a dual perspective. The first principle is that transnational terrorism constitutes an assault on the security of a democracy such as Canada, and on the individual and collective rights of our inhabitants, our rights to life, liberty, and security for the person. In that context, anti-terrorism law and policies are designed to protect the security of democracy and the rights of its inhabitants.

At the same time, the enactment, enforcement, and application of our anti-terrorism law and policy must always comport with the rule of law. The Charter of Rights and Freedoms must always be respected; individuals and groups must never be singled out for differential and discriminatory treatment; torture must always be condemned; and vulnerable and visible minorities must always be protected, be it as targets of incitement to racism and hatred or targets of racial profiling. In the promotion and protection of human security, we must never undermine our individual and collective rights, which are a fundamental component of that human security itself.

As the Supreme Court of Canada has put it, the question is not whether to respond to acts of terror but rather how we respond. “The Constitution”, it added, “is not a suicide pact”. Therefore, anti-terrorism law and policy is clearly necessary. Canada's Charter of Rights and Freedoms, the centrepiece of our Constitution, and the proportionality principle, the linchpin of any purported limitation on any charter right, must always be adhered to and respected. The same goes for our privacy rights, which are concretized in two federal statutes, primarily the Privacy Act and the Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act.

Constitutional democracies such as Canada can and should address the dilemma of how to respond to terrorism in an informed and principled way rather than in any political or politicized fashion. As such, I wholeheartedly support the bill referenced in this motion, which would allow for oversight by a committee of parliamentarians, both senators and members of the House of Commons, sworn to secrecy, to receive briefings and updates on the activities of Canada's security services, and to do so in as secure a setting as needed. The importance of this issue cannot be understated. Just last week, Interim Privacy Commissioner of Canada Chantal Bernier tabled a report entitled, “Checks and Controls: Reinforcing Privacy Protection and Oversight for the Canadian Intelligence Community in an Era of Cyber-Surveillance”, which states:

While secrecy may be an inherent aspect of many intelligence activities, so is accountability. Reporting, review and appropriate legal controls lead to accountability on the part of decision-makers and institutions.

I believe I can speak for all members of this place when I say that we seek accountability and come to expect it. This holds even in the national security context.

As Ms. Bernier's report states:

National security claims do not reduce accountability obligations and security bodies must account to Canadians for what they do with personal information. Independent review mechanisms ensure this accountability of security agencies, safeguard public trust and verify demonstrable respect for individual rights.

The report of the interim Privacy Commissioner is a fascinating look at the interplay between national security and the protection of Canadians' personal information and data. There are also recommendations therein for the government. I hope it will implement some of them in the near future.

However, a more serious debate needs to happen wherein parliamentarians can help define and fashion the contour between what is acceptable in the pursuit of safety and what behaviours infringe upon our civil liberties in ways that we would deem inappropriate and improper, particularly with respect to the rights of privacy.

Regrettably, it is not the government that has asked for this open dialogue. Thus, I am thankful that my Liberal colleague from Malpeque has initiated this debate. It is important that Canadians play their part in this discussion as well.

Elizabeth Renzetti, in yesterday's Globe and Mail, put it quite well in her column, aptly titled “As government snoops, Canadians...take a nap”. Indeed, we have been lacking here in that sense of urgency about what has been happening, compared with the sense of urgency in matters of this kind in the United States and European parliaments.

Alarm bells are now going off. The interim Privacy Commissioner has sounded the alarm. We ought to heed her advice. She is not the only one, however. It is useful here to recall the Auditor General's report of March 2009, wherein he declared:

For Canadians to have confidence in their security and intelligence organizations, they need to know that government agencies and departments maintain a balance between protecting the privacy of citizens and ensuring national security.

It is precisely that balance that we strive for through an informed debate on CSEC's activities and through the creation of a parliamentary oversight committee for Canada's security infrastructure, as outlined in my colleague's bill.

Moreover, some of the answers the government has offered leave much to be desired. For example, the top national security adviser to the Prime Minister, at a committee of the other place, testified yesterday that he is “not totally persuaded” that CSEC had “tapped into” Canadians' communications via airport Wi-Fi.

Saying that one is not persuaded is not a categorical denial. It is not a definitive no. Should not the top security adviser to the Prime Minister know for sure? We, as parliamentarians, on behalf of Canadians, have an obligation to discover fully what happened and why, and to pronounce ourselves thereupon.

In its statement on the recent media reports, CSEC noted:

The CSEC Commissioner is currently conducting another review of CSEC’s metadata activities. We welcome that review.

I am hopeful that this review will be made public and that we will require more transparency from CSEC, including, as the Privacy Commissioner has recommended, the publication of annual statistics of interception and the tabling of a non-classified report in Parliament.

In closing, it is not only possible but also necessary to work together to ensure the protection of both security and rights. While it is a challenging matter to resolve, I believe that parliamentarians are capable of co-operating across party lines to ensure that Canadians enjoy both a robust security infrastructure, on the one hand, and the fullest expression of the principles underpinning the charter and privacy legislation, on the other.

[Roxanne James, Conservative, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness]

Mr. Speaker, not too long ago the opposition parties obstructed a bill that would have revoked citizenship from those who committed acts of terror. In that particular instance, I recall the opposition witness saying that it would be inhumane to revoke someone's citizenship simply if he or she had committed an act of terror. That witness said so in the same committee there was a spouse of someone who had lost a loved one from an act of terror.

When that the same opposition wants to bring forward a bill that would have parliamentarians, the same parliamentarians who would obstruct such a bill, overseeing national security, I am a bit concerned.

Here is the question I need to ask, and I have asked it throughout day. The opposition wants to establish a new committee made up of parliamentarians, possibly partisan, to oversee another committee that already exists to oversee our security agencies. It is creating a separate level of duplication.

Why does the opposition think that a partisan group of politicians should be overseeing national security when we already have an arm's-length, independent body in place that has proven that these agencies are abiding by the law?

[Irwin Cotler, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Mr. Speaker, it is the first time I am hearing that the establishment of an oversight committee, which I regard as part of the responsibility of Parliament as a whole, would somehow be transformed into an alleged partisan mechanism.

It is a parliamentary committee that has been recommended by members on all sides of the House for over 10 years, one that exists in the American Congress and European parliaments. It would not be a novel undertaking, but a necessary undertaking, both for the protection of security and individual liberties.

[Christine Moore, NDP, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Mr. Speaker, before I changed committees, I was a member of the national defence committee, where members did not have access to documents classified as secret. That does not give parliamentarians the chance to understand fully what is going on when we talk about national security.

I would like to know if the member agrees if there should be a way that some members of Parliament, in a committee that already exists or a new one, have access to classified secret documents and the security clearance to do so?

[Irwin Cotler, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Mr. Speaker, such a parliamentary committee would be mandated through a review of the legislative and regulatory policy and administrative framework for the agencies responsible for national security in Canada.

I might add that this bill by the member for Malpeque stems from a 2004 report by an all-party committee of parliamentarians at the time, of which the Minister of Justice, Peter MacKay, was a member. We would expect the government's full—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Barry Devolin]

Order, please. I would just remind the hon. member that he ought not to reference his colleagues by their given names in the chamber.

The hon. member for Mount Royal.

[Irwin Cotler, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I stand corrected in that regard.

Just to further the basis for our initiative, which as I said has been concurred in by members from all parties, there needs to be an immediate independent and thorough review of CSEC activities and operations. In fact, our international partners, such as the U.K. and Australia, both have rigorous parliamentary oversight committees to ensure that the privacy rights of their citizens are protected as the security of these countries is protected.

[Daryl Kramp, Conservative, Prince Edward—Hastings, ON]

Mr. Speaker, today I will be splitting my time with the hon. member for Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke.

I am definitely pleased to rise today and speak against the motion before us.

There is no question that our national security agencies operate in a dynamic, complex, and now global environment. The demands on them are great as they carry out their responsibilities to protect Canadian life and property from those who would seek to harm us.

Our government recognizes that robust mechanisms to review national security activities are critical in maintaining the trust of Canadians. I am pleased to say that robust review does exist in the current environment.

Since CSIS was created, review of its activities to ensure its compliance with the law has been at the very forefront of its entire operation. The Security Intelligence Review Committee was created at the same time as CSIS, not later, recognizing that it had that obligation. It has been reviewing CSIS activities since its inception.

Ensuring that CSIS remains accountable for its actions has always been a key consideration. The committee provides an external review mechanism that is at arm's length from any government, past, present, and future. That is important to note.

The committee plays an important role in ensuring independent review of CSIS activities by carrying out three key functions: first, by verifying that it is satisfied with the annual report prepared by the CSIS director; second, by conducting reviews of CSIS activities to ensure that it complies with legislation, policies, and ministerial directions; and, third, by investigating all complaints in regard to CSIS activities.

Make no mistake, this type of review is vital. It helps ensure that all Canadians know that CSIS conducts its activities legally and in conformity with the policies and directions received. Such review is essential. It is critical to assuring Canadians that the activities of an organization such as CSIS that must conduct its activities away from the public eye are, nonetheless, scrutinized to ensure their compliance with Canadian law and respect for our rights.

SIRC does open a window into these activities for us. Is it a wide open window? Of course not. Certain information and sensitivities are involved in protecting the nation, its annual reports, for instance. These reports provide Parliament and the Canadian public with a broad understanding of CSIS operations.

The most recent report tabled last fall spoke to CSIS' activities to address the increasingly complex dimensions of the national security issues it must face. The report details findings and recommendations, shedding light on CSIS' activities, both for members of the House and all Canadians.

Another point of note in the recent report is that CSIS continues to work collaboratively with SIRC and continuously strives to address the committee's findings and recommendations. They are not working in isolation; they are working in tandem and in co-operation.

Another issue addressed by SIRC that is of interest to concerned Canadians is how CSIS and the Communications Security Establishment Canada work together.

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, Barry Devolin]

Order, please. The Chair must interrupt at this point. The hon. member for Prince Edward—Hastings will have six minutes remaining when this matter returns before the House after question period.

Statements by Members. The hon. member for Oak Ridges—Markham.