House of Commons Hansard #107 of the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was veterans.

Topics

Rouge National Urban Park ActGovernment Orders

1:30 p.m.

Kevin Sorenson

Jasper.

Rouge National Urban Park ActGovernment Orders

1:30 p.m.

NDP

Rathika Sitsabaiesan NDP Scarborough—Rouge River, ON

Oh, Mr. Speaker, a Conservative member is heckling me and asking if I have been to the park. Of course I have. I go there and plant trees and bushes, and I take care of that park. I personally take care of Rouge Park.

Rouge National Urban Park ActGovernment Orders

1:30 p.m.

Robert Sopuck

I want to see deer.

Rouge National Urban Park ActGovernment Orders

1:35 p.m.

NDP

Rathika Sitsabaiesan NDP Scarborough—Rouge River, ON

Mr. Speaker, I am one of the stewards of this park, and that is why I am saying that this bill is a good start, but we need to make sure we are protecting this park and making it the best park it can be.

Rouge National Urban Park ActGovernment Orders

1:35 p.m.

Conservative

Corneliu Chisu Conservative Pickering—Scarborough East, ON

Mr. Speaker, I was listening attentively to the presentation by my colleague. I have heard a lot of misinformation presented to the House regarding the park. She said she participates in many activities in the park. Unfortunately, I have not seen her very much. I go there. I live in the park.

I would like to ask my colleague if there is a difference between a national park and an urban national park. Does she think Highway 401 should not be in Rouge Park, that the 401 should be destroyed, and that they should block the entrance to the park to everyone but the NDP? I would ask her to tell me, please.

Rouge National Urban Park ActGovernment Orders

June 19th, 2014 / 1:35 p.m.

NDP

Rathika Sitsabaiesan NDP Scarborough—Rouge River, ON

Mr. Speaker, it is really funny that the member would say that he does not see me in the park, because the one or two times he has been to the park, I was there. I do not understand what he means. However, it does not matter. Let us not talk about what he does or does not do. I want to talk about the park.

The park is very important to me. He says that I was giving misinformation here. I was reading from existing legislation. I was reading from the Canada National Parks Act, the Provincial Parks Act, the Rouge Park Management Plan, and the Greenbelt Plan. I was reading from the motion from city council, from a release that CPAWS put out, and from the legislation itself. The member said he was listening very hard. Maybe he missed the parts I quoted from the existing legislation and the legislation that is before us.

After he attacked and said I do not spend time in Rouge Park, which is a joke, he asked about the difference between a national park and an urban national park and if I feel the park does not need highways. My vision for this park is that it will be one that conserves and protects the natural habitat and ecosystems of this park while allowing the residents of the area to enjoy the park. It also means making sure that there is not a large oil spill and that the water system is protected.

Rouge National Urban Park ActGovernment Orders

1:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Barry Devolin

Before I go to questions and comments, I would remind all hon. members that they should wait until their colleagues are finished their questions before standing. Standing up before their colleagues are finished does not increase your chances of being recognized; in fact, it decreases your chances of being recognized.

The hon. member for Scarborough—Guildwood.

Rouge National Urban Park ActGovernment Orders

1:40 p.m.

Liberal

John McKay Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood, ON

Mr. Speaker, I want to ask the hon. member about her participation in Rouge Park activities. Those who have been active in the last 25 years, groups like Save the Rouge Valley System, Friends of the Rouge Watershed, Lois James, Derek Lee, a former colleague, Pauline Browes, a former colleague of members opposite, and a whole variety of others appear not to be involved in, or have been specifically excluded from, the management plan of the park. I wonder whether she could comment on their apparent treatment.

Rouge National Urban Park ActGovernment Orders

1:40 p.m.

NDP

Rathika Sitsabaiesan NDP Scarborough—Rouge River, ON

Mr. Speaker, Lois James is known as the grandmother of the park, and the Friends of the Rouge Watershed are the ones who take care of a lot of the tree planting in the area. The activists and community members who care seem to be left out. Who was invited to the announcement about the Rouge Park legislation? All of the Conservatives' friends were invited to it, it seemed, but Friends of the Rouge Watershed was not. My office did not get notice that they were going to be making an announcement about it.

Of course, the announcement was made in Markham, but we know that Rouge Park affects multiple ridings in the area, and we need to make sure that we work together for the creation of Canada's first urban national park. People like the grandmother of the park, Lois James, need to be included in at least the visioning of it.

Rouge National Urban Park ActGovernment Orders

1:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Barry Devolin

Order, please. While the Chair appreciates the assistance of hon. members in this place, it is in fact the responsibility of the Chair to try to manage the clock. I know it is getting near the end of the session, but interruptions and interventions from the floor are more likely to delay the business of this House rather than expedite it.

Questions and comments. The hon. member for Scarborough Southwest.

Rouge National Urban Park ActGovernment Orders

1:40 p.m.

NDP

Dan Harris NDP Scarborough Southwest, ON

Mr. Speaker, I want to start off by commenting on the heckling from the member for Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette when he was talking about wanting to see the deer in the park.

Deer are one of 27 mammal species in the park. There are 55 fish species, 19 reptile and amphibian species, and 762 plant species. Over a quarter of Ontario's flora can be found in the park, as well as 225 bird species, including 123 breeding species. Therefore, there is a lot to see in the park beyond deer.

I want to ask my hon. colleague about the absolute negligence of the changes that were made to the Navigable Waters Protection Act by making sure—

Rouge National Urban Park ActGovernment Orders

1:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Barry Devolin

Order, please. The hon. member for Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette is rising on a point of order.

Rouge National Urban Park ActGovernment Orders

1:40 p.m.

Conservative

Robert Sopuck Conservative Dauphin—Swan River—Marquette, MB

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. The hon. member across the way referred to me as making a comment, and I have yet to speak today, so I would ask him to retract it.

Rouge National Urban Park ActGovernment Orders

1:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Barry Devolin

On the same point of order, the hon. member for Scarborough Southwest.

Rouge National Urban Park ActGovernment Orders

1:40 p.m.

NDP

Dan Harris NDP Scarborough Southwest, ON

Mr. Speaker, I was commenting on heckling by the member when he was not recognized by the Chair, not on a comment he made when he was. Maybe he might want to wait until he is recognized before he speaks up.

My question to my hon. colleague was about the negligence in the changes to the Navigable Waters Protection Act that mean that there will not be stop valves placed on both sides of the line 9 pipeline when the reversal is made and why that could lead to potential spills down the road.

Rouge National Urban Park ActGovernment Orders

1:45 p.m.

NDP

Rathika Sitsabaiesan NDP Scarborough—Rouge River, ON

Mr. Speaker, my hon. colleague from Scarborough Southwest is correct.

Rouge National Urban Park ActGovernment Orders

1:45 p.m.

Some hon. members

Oh, oh!

Rouge National Urban Park ActGovernment Orders

1:45 p.m.

NDP

Rathika Sitsabaiesan NDP Scarborough—Rouge River, ON

Mr. Speaker, would you like me to continue over these hecklers?

Rouge National Urban Park ActGovernment Orders

1:45 p.m.

Conservative

Leon Benoit Conservative Vegreville—Wainwright, AB

You have your own members heckling.

Rouge National Urban Park ActGovernment Orders

1:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Barry Devolin

Order, please. Could all hon. members speak when they have the floor and refrain from doing so when they do not? If there is a discussion that needs to take place, members are obviously free to leave the chamber and do it outside the chamber.

The hon. member for Scarborough—Rouge River.

Rouge National Urban Park ActGovernment Orders

1:45 p.m.

NDP

Rathika Sitsabaiesan NDP Scarborough—Rouge River, ON

Mr. Speaker, thank you. I very much appreciate your getting the House to order.

My colleague from Scarborough Southwest is correct in stating that Rouge Park is home to many endangered species. I can list a lot too. It is home to 70 species of trees, 27 species of reptiles, and 20 species of amphibians. More rare species of plants and animals are within Rouge Park than in any other region in Canada. That is not me saying that. That is from research done by the Canadian Environmental Law Association.

To answer the question my hon. colleague asked, which was about the protection of the waterway and the changes to the Navigable Waters Protection Act and the Migratory Birds Convention Act that were brought forward by the Conservative government in one of its many omnibus bills, they actually makes it not safe. It was probably in a budget bill. I really do not remember. The changes ensure that the Rouge River, which is the main waterway in Rouge Park, is not a protected waterway. There is a pipeline going through it, and we need to make sure that there are protective measures and that there are valves on each side of the river to stop the flow into the waterway.

Rouge National Urban Park ActGovernment Orders

1:45 p.m.

Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo B.C.

Conservative

Cathy McLeod ConservativeParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Labour and for Western Economic Diversification

Mr. Speaker, I listened with great interest. I know that the New Democratic Party is anti- pipelines going anywhere. I do not know if the member is aware, but the Kinder Morgan pipeline goes through our beautiful Jasper National Park, and has for many years. I do not think there is anyone in the House who would say that Jasper National Park is not a phenomenal treasure. The Kinder Morgan pipeline supplies 90% of the gas to the Lower Mainland. It has gone through my riding for many years.

I would ask the member this. Is she saying that Jasper National Park is less of a park because it has a pipeline that has gone through it safely for over 60 years and that pipelines and protected and treasured areas cannot coexist?

Rouge National Urban Park ActGovernment Orders

1:45 p.m.

NDP

Rathika Sitsabaiesan NDP Scarborough—Rouge River, ON

Mr. Speaker, I have not had a chance to visit Jasper National Park, so I look forward to visiting it one day.

Every single one of our national parks in this country is a treasure. Every single one needs to be protected. We need to ensure that every single one is ecologically sustainable and that its habitat is protected. I'm saying this should happen for every single park; I am not saying that one park is more important than the other.

However, for me, Rouge Park is going to be the most important because it is in my backyard. It is the park I go to most frequently, because it is my park. It is the park where I go to hang out. It is the park where I run and go for a walk. Hopefully, some day I will take my children or grandchildren to that park.

However, if it is not protected and if there is a spill in it, as happened in Kalamazoo, then my park, the river, the watershed, and the groundwater tables will be ruined. That is what I want to prevent.

Rouge National Urban Park ActGovernment Orders

1:45 p.m.

Liberal

John McKay Liberal Scarborough—Guildwood, ON

Mr. Speaker, thank you for the opportunity to enter into this debate. In the interests of full disclosure, Rouge Park is very close to my riding as well, and I have taken my children and my grandchildren through the park from time to time, both in winter and summer. So I am quite familiar with this piece of real estate and am very pleased to see that we have moved to the point of presenting legislation. But in typical fashion, the government seems to have a talent for taking good news and turning it into bad news.

I suppose it is only coincidental that after the northern gateway decision, we are now debating two park bills, the first with respect to Rouge Park and the second with respect to a park up in the Northwest Territories. It is only coincidental that the announcement about northern gateway and the discussion about parks happens almost sequentially. It has nothing to do with trying to burnish the environmental creds of the government.

Before I go too much further, I want to acknowledge the 25-year effort by my colleague, Derek Lee, in conjunction with Pauline Browes, in advocating on the floor of the House for the park and the reservation of these lands, along with a number of citizens groups, Friends of the Rouge, Save the Rouge, WWF, COSCA, and of course the patron saint of the park, Lois James. I am certain that I have left out a number of NGOs and individuals who have been very important to why we are here today. Regrettably, they do not seem to be as involved in the potential management plan as they possibly should be, and I hope that once the dust settles here, the officials will think it over and see their way clear to incorporate them into the park management plan.

The interesting part of this proposal is that according to the bill itself, what is actually being incorporated into the park are three little pieces of property in Markham. When asked about this at the briefing yesterday, the Conservatives say they are actually in negotiation with three or four levels of government, a variety of conservation authorities, et cetera. But the way it is being presented by the parliamentary secretary and others is that this is 58 square kilometres. Actually it is not 58 square kilometres; it is about two or three acres. By the time the bill actually receives royal assent, it will still be two or three acres and the negotiations will have yet to be completed.

Why is this a concern? First of all, the Government of Canada can unilaterally transfer from the Department of Transport the lands under its control, but for whatever reason, it has not included those lands in this bill or in the schedule that would be attached to the bill. In addition, there are other airport lands that apparently might possibly be under negotiations and that are not included in the bill. Instead of 58 square kilometres, some people would like to see 100 square kilometres, going all the way up to the Oak Ridges Moraine, in order to protect a corridor for wildlife, et cetera.

It is in some respects, as far as a presentation of a piece of land is concerned, much less than what it appears. Take note of the contrast between the bill for the park in the Northwest Territories, whose name I dare not pronounce for fear of offending someone, and this bill. Half the bill, six or seven pages, actually goes to a metes and bounds description of the park itself. That is normally the way a park bill is presented. Bill S-5 is a proper presentation.

In terms of the schedule of the land being presented, the actual amounts are far less, and there is no guarantee that the lands in the presentation by the parliamentary secretary are in fact the lands that will be transferred.

There are two reasons for this. First, negotiations are negotiations and they may go somewhere differently than the government hopes they will. Second, there is no presentation of a plan for ecological protection. That is worth drawing attention to, because in normal park bills we have a specific clause in each and every bill. The specific clause says:

...a set of ecological integrity objectives and indicators and provisions for resource protection and restoration, zoning, visitor use, public awareness and performance evaluation, which shall be tabled in each House of Parliament.

There is no such inclusion in the clause. When I asked the officials yesterday why it was not in there, their reason was that this was a unique park. The reasoning actually does have some sense to it. As others have pointed out, Highway 401 goes over the park, as does Highway 2, and so do Steeles Avenue and Taunton Road, and there is also a huge hydro corridor through the park. Therefore, we cannot set up ecological metrics to evaluate the ecological performance of the park. What we are left with is a very vague clause in paragraph 6 of the bill. It states:

The Minister must, in the management of the Park, take into consideration the protection of its natural ecosystems and cultural landscapes and the maintenance of its native wildlife and of the health of those ecosystems.

“Take into consideration” is not a plan. Let me just sketch a scenario. The minister goes to the Province of Ontario and says, “We would like your thousand acres, or two thousand acres”—or whatever the number is—“and we want to know how you're going to manage this plan and this park”. The minister says, “Trust me.“ Well, “trust me” does not cut it.

As far as I and anyone else in the House know, including the parliamentary secretary or the minister, we do not actually know how this park is going to be managed. If I am the Province of Ontario, or the Town of Markham, or the City of Toronto, I am going to be asking that rather fundamental question. I would say: “No plan, no transfer”. I rather hope that it does not get held up on that. I hope there is a plan. I hope the ecological and cultural integrity of the park would be protected. However, “trust me” is not exactly a great answer when one is asking for thousands and thousands of acres to be transferred, which according to the government's numbers are supposed to amount to 58 square kilometres.

If in fact the government had some ecological or environmental integrity, one might actually say, “Okay, trust us. We will have a plan and we will fulfill this”. However, as we know, the government's environmental credibility is as about as rock bottom as rock bottom can be, so “trust me” is not exactly an answer when we are asking other levels of government to transfer thousands of acres to the park for what would otherwise be a very supportable proposition.

Again, why is this of greater concern? As others have alluded to, in the park there is what is called mono-cultural or industrial farming, and some of those farming practices are in clear contradistinction to proper park management functions. One might say “Well, let's not worry about that, because we'll make sure, as we renew each lease and try to move it up to market value, that in fact we will assure the best farming practices”. When I raised that question yesterday, one of the members of the Conservative Party dismissed the concerns about neonicatoids. Frankly, that stuff is of concern. Here we have Environment Canada and Parks Canada managing farms in the park, which should be held to the highest possible standards, to the best science we have available for farming practices.

The member just dismissed it: “I do not give a hoot about the bees. I do not give a hoot about the watershed. I do not give a hoot about the hiring practices. Just get my constituents the cheapest possible land for the longest period of time.” It does not inspire—

Rouge National Urban Park ActGovernment Orders

1:55 p.m.

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Barry Devolin

I must interrupt the hon. member for Scarborough—Guildwood at this point. The time for government orders has expired. The hon. member will have 10 minutes remaining when this matter returns before the House.