Philip Mayfield

[Financial Information Strategy, June 3rd, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. On that point I feel no decision has been made on this. I went to the committee. I very carefully constructed my motion to follow all five criteria. There has not been a decision given. I believe that issue needs to remain open until the committee has tabled its report at least.

[Financial Information Strategy, June 3rd, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to begin by thanking each of my parliamentary colleagues for the support they have shown for my motion.

I would like to respond to a couple of comments. I would like to respond to my Liberal colleague's comments which objected to the immediacy. I have a bit of difficulty with that because we have been on the starting blocks of this for about seven years now. To talk about immediacy in terms of taking too long is probably the way it should be looked at. The difficulty is that when we are talking about immediacy, we are not talking about a full implementation happening tomorrow because I understand that would be an impossibility. However the government needs to make some decisions before the various departments can fully implement beyond where they have gone already. We need to know which model the government will have the departments follow.

When I talk about immediacy, we need the government to make the remaining decisions that are necessary for the completion of this process. Then we must go on from there and begin following that lead of the government by having a financial information strategy completed.

I would also like to thank the Bloc Quebecois member for the questions she asked. She asked if the FIS would help the finance minister. I would think that the kind of information demanded by the financial information strategy and accrual based accounting in the preparation of the budget would most certainly help the finance minister and his department focus on the most necessary aspects of how the money would be spent, where it would be spent and the outputs from that. I cannot see anything but help going to the finance minister on this.

The second question she asked was whether the FIS would allow a readjustment of our sights if we missed the target. Hopefully, to begin with, it would help us more accurately target in the money that would be spent and then give annual results of what our outputs would be, what we accomplished and allow a readjustment on a more timely basis should there be some inaccuracy in prejudging the results that we expected. I would like to thank the member for that.

The departments would like the government to make a decision on the model that can be adopted to implement accrual based budgeting appropriations. Unless the government provides the leadership and moves to accrual based budgeting and appropriations, managers will not focus on accrual based financial reporting. This makes sense because the departments can hardly be expected to prepare a set of financial reports that cannot be compared with the budget materials and the appropriation statements. Departments want financial information for all purposes to be produced on an accrual basis.

Furthermore, there are concerns about the interval of when they will have to prepare the information in their estimates on a different basis from the information of their financial statements.The risk that is being run is that the departments will be producing two views of the same data. They will have to prepare two sets of books, and we know the problems with having two sets of books. Resolving this issue will demand a major effort no matter what course of action the government decides to take.

The government says that choosing a model for accrual based budgeting appropriations is a complex issue that requires extensive study before a decision can be made and that meeting the public accounts suggested April 2003 target date to produce accrual budgeting and appropriations is unlikely.

The treasury board secretariat made little progress on the issue until August 2001 when it hired a manager to complete the study and make a recommendation on how to go with this by the spring of 2002. In fact, in the April report of the auditor general, the treasury board said that it had developed a plan to review alternative approaches to implementing accrual budgeting. Therefore, it is proceeding but slowly; some would say too slowly. We would like to have that process speeded up.

I do not want to hear from the other side of the House that the government has already implemented FIS. That would be inaccurate and would be a naive statement. It is not totally inaccurate, though. The important thing is that the treasury board needs to make a decision on moving to accrual appropriations in budgeting. It needs to decide whether to get ready and have everyone start using the whole process at once or whether to begin with everyone using a more gradual phased in approach.

This may sound simple but it is really a very complicated decision that has to be made and it needs to be made sooner rather than later. The government needs to ensure that the budget and the estimates use the same language that the departmental financial reports and the public accounts use.

To conclude, as I mentioned, this is an unusual situation because at this time I do not know whether the motion will be votable or not. I ask for unanimous consent that this motion be made votable--

[Financial Information Strategy, June 3rd, 2002]

moved:

That, in the opinion of this House, the government should take immediate measures to ensure that the Financial Information Strategy is fully and completely implemented.

Mr. Speaker,I am pleased to speak on behalf of the people of Cariboo--Chilcotin on Motion No. 437

What is the financial information strategy? This strategy consists of implementing accrual based accounting practices to the full cycle of financial accounting in our federal government. It would ensure that the accrual based accounting method is used in the three major stages of the financial operations of our federal government.

The first stage is the federal budget itself usually presented to the House in February. During the second stage appropriations are presented in the spring. Those are the estimates that tell us how the policies announced in the budget would be paid for. In the third stage the public accounts or the financial reports of the departments are presented in the fall. These figures detail the previous year's spending and are the accounting record.

The budget and estimates are forward looking. They are the spending plans that would be implemented by the government. The public accounts delivered in the fall detail exactly what was spent and on what it was spent. The aim of the financial information strategy is to ensure that the same accounting language is used in all three stages. As it is now it is difficult for parliamentarians to compare what they voted on in the spring with the actual results that are presented in the fall. There is a translation needed for the facts and figures presented in the public accounts in order to compare them to what was in the estimates.

Accrual basis is the revenue that is recognized when earned. Expenditures are recognized when they occur not when the cash changes hands. For example, revenues are recognized at the time of sale for the service or the merchandise, and expenses are usually recognized at the time their benefits are received not when the cash is paid.

Cash basis on the other hand is when the revenue is recognized when it is received. Expenditures are recognized when they are actually paid. In other words, revenues are recognized and recorded only when the cash is received and expenses are recognized in the period when the cash payments are made. There is a major difference here. The cash basis does not amortize expenditures whereas the accrual basis does.

Problems arise when we compare these apples to the traditional oranges. While four important accountability documents, the budget, the public accounts, reports on plans and priorities and departmental performance reports, are all moving to a full accrual based accounting the government has not yet announced any plans to ask parliament to appropriate resources on the same basis. We are still speaking in accounting languages that do not always tell the same story.

This leaves out the fifth important accountability document, the main estimates and the associated appropriations. Departmental planning, managing and reporting on what resources are consumed to achieve desired results would significantly increase once the whole process moves to a full accrual basis with ministers, deputy ministers and government managers leading the way to this new basis of being accountable.

Appropriating funds on a full accrual basis is currently the missing link in the government's plan to move to full accrual accounting. Accrual based accounting practices would not only eliminate confusion but would help departmental managers on the frontline estimate the costs of what they must do and accurately judge how they fared once the work was done.

The financial information strategy will allow departmental managers to work with a whole new mindset. Instead of merely receiving a lump sum of money to accomplish a task, they will be able to more accurately predict how large a sum they will need. At the end of the task, they will be able to more clearly account for how much their efforts cost and thereby get a more accurate picture of what value they received for the money spent.

What is the history of the financial information strategy? Believe it or not, the FIS was initiated in 1989 and then relaunched in 1995. It needs to be fully and completely implemented. That is what is not happening.

It offers the following benefits. It gives government managers better financial information to use in making day to day decisions. It offers the advantage of modernizing federal government accounting by bringing it in line with the private sector and other public sector jurisdictions. Perhaps most important, it will link the cost of programs to the final results.

The weakest link in the traditional accounting chain of events is our limited ability to know what the government actually accomplishes with the money it spends. We need to measure outcomes realized from the inputs. We need to know what we get for the money that is spent.

All my motion asks for is that the financial information strategy be fully and completely implemented because that was the intent of the original plan. The word immediately is used because it has been 13 years since it was first decided that the strategy was desirable and it has been 7 years since the Liberal government deemed it to be desirable.

Progress is being made. The government has great expectations for the financial information strategy, as do taxpayers who are aware of this. The public has a significant interest in seeing this strategy embraced in all government departments and yet there is still a great deal of work to be done. The public wants this work done because it is our tax dollars for which we are seeking maximum value. The motion is easily supported by all sides of the House.

The FIS is not an easy thing to implement. I am not saying that this is something the government can say that it will do it today and that it will be done. It is not a simple thing to do. Looking at the totals of the estimates that each department has provided, the FIS is estimated to cost about $635 million to implement . However the funding is petering out and yet the work is not completed.

My motion is a friendly reminder and a gesture of encouragement for the government to follow through on the completion of this project before further moneys need to be allotted to get the job done and that taxpayers can begin to reap the benefits promised by this strategy.

I want to encourage all members participating in the debate today to remain non-partisan, positive and encouraging in their remarks. The debate should be aimed at encouraging the government to go ahead with the completion of the financial information strategy. Completing the implementation of the FIS is a difficult task, as I have said, but there is much work to be done.

The Treasury Board Secretariat is faced with choosing a model for full accrual based appropriations and budgeting. For example, we do not know if this should be a big bang effort where everybody starts all at once when they are prepared to do that or whether this should be more gradually phased in. The government has not made that decision. The departments are ready and prepared but decisions need to be taken by the government for this process to go on to final completion.

I want to use my time here to encourage the government to go ahead and do this. Once the FIS is fully and completely implemented there may even be problems or fine tuning to complete the job then. We understand that and are prepared to be supportive at a later date of doing that as well.

As I said, there will be problems but even the Auditor General of Canada cannot predict the problems that may be encountered, the modifications her office may recommend or what the treasury board itself will want to consider. However the auditor general insists that the movement to full accrual appropriations is budgeting is worth this effort.

In his 1997 report, entitled “Accounting for Results”, the President of the Treasury Board re-emphasized this call for improved financial information for management decision making by stating:

In general, however, existing sources of information do not answer questions about the cost associated with specific results. Although conclusive information linking costs and results is often difficult to obtain, improvements are being made through the government's Financial Information Strategy. The Strategy aims to enhance government decision making and accountability and to improve organizational performance by providing more complete information on the costs of programs and activities.

Parliament controls the public purse through the granting of supply, setting limits on the amount of money available to managers to acquire resources. It does this by approving the Appropriations Act which identifies, by spending a authority, the amount of money available to the government. As a result, departmental planning, managing and reporting are primarily concerned with spending money to acquire resources.

However governments do not exist to acquire resources. They exist to deliver programs and services. In doing so, they consume or use resources. For example, a government may acquire a building in a particular year to help deliver a program over many years. In doing so, a portion of the building's cost is consumed each year following.

How much does it cost to finance the purchase? How much does the maintenance cost? What are the benefits derived from the building once the government has purchased it? Does the capital value of the building appreciate or depreciate?

Those are all elements that would be recorded in the accrual based accounting to give a clear picture of the government's performance and the cost of that performance.

Accordingly, a far better basis to plan, manage and report departmental operations is to focus on the cost of resources consumed, not just the cost of resources that are acquired which requires full accrual accounting as envisioned by the financial information strategy.

Another example of the importance of using full accrual accounting is seen when we consider that the government makes no distinction between a $25 million outlay, for example, to renovate a building that would provide benefits for perhaps 15 or 20 years and a yearly $4 million outlay to lease equivalent space in a private building. Those are things that managers need to know and to understand when they are determining costs. Accrual accounting would encourage these kinds of distinctions to be made in decision making.

In 1995 the former minister of finance announced the government's intention to adopt full accrual accounting for the preparation of the annual budget and for reporting back to parliament on financial results in the Public Accounts of Canada.

In 2001 the Standing Committee on Public Accounts issued two reports urging the Treasury Board Secretariat to act on the issue of accrual based budgeting and appropriations.

In the departments, managers are prepared to present accrual based financial reporting but they are only part of the financial reporting process and not all parts of this process are ready for the financial information strategy. The government needs to implement accrual based budgeting and appropriations throughout the whole system and lead the way in doing this. There needs to be one set of books, not two sets of books as is necessary now.

Finally I want to speak to a unique situation that I am in, in presenting this financial information strategy to the House today. Last week, as a favour to a Liberal colleague in the House, I was asked to trade my time for this speech with his time which was to be presented this morning.

The problem is that even today I do not know whether or not my motion is votable. That is a unique situation. I would like two more hours to debate this and to have a vote on it but that is not to be.

Later I will be asking members to consider this unique situation and to give unanimous consent to the granting of further time to discuss this and then to vote on this important piece of business that the government needs to consider.

[Softwood Lumber, May 28th, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, the government should make the settlement of the softwood lumber dispute with the U.S. its number one priority. This conflict is hurting both countries. The cost of not reaching a solution is enormous.

Canadian lumber exporters have already started paying 27% duties in cash. Why is the Prime Minister rubbing shoulders with President Bush today at the NATO meeting in Rome saying he is too busy to talk to him but he might talk to French President Chirac instead? Will this help our desperate forest communities? Not at all. The U.S. lumber lobby is causing the dispute to pump up the price of wood in the United States. The pain suffered by our forest communities is about to get worse.

Canada wants to negotiate a solution based on fair trade. The U.S. lumber barons know this but by refusing to negotiate they continue to rake in profits, destroying communities and economies along the way.

The Prime Minister and the U.S. president should insist that negotiations begin again immediately. The Prime Minister must go to George Bush and ask him face to face: “Are you with us or agin us?”

[Supply, May 28th, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my hon. colleague for his comments. He said the government's response to what is happening has been inadequate. A number of details might be helpful in understanding how inadequate it has been. First, the international trade minister announced $20 million in advocacy advertisements in the United States. It is not new money. Some $17 million of it was announced prior to September 11. Another $3 million has been added. It is less than the amount planned for the landmine initiative of former foreign affairs minister Lloyd Axworthy.

Second, the natural resources minister announced $75 million in forestry funding. That is less than 3% of what is estimated to be needed. It should be $2 billion rather than $75 million.

Third, today the Prime Minister is in Rome rubbing shoulders with the president of the United States. However he says he will not have time to talk to him and will instead probably talk to the president of France.

These are indications of the attitude the government brings to a problem that is destroying our communities. I would like a response.

[Assisted Human Reproduction Act, May 22nd, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to have the opportunity to speak to this subject this afternoon.

The bill is the Liberal government's attempt at legislation to prohibit, through the criminal code, certain assisted human reproduction practices and to authorize the regulation of other practices under licence. It also creates an agency to operate a licensing regime to monitor activity and keep records.

The official opposition will not be supporting the bill unless the government allows a number of amendments.

We have been calling for legislation in this field since 1993 when the royal commission on new reproductive technologies reported. In July 1995, Ottawa introduced a voluntary moratorium on some technologies. The government introduced a bill on June 14, 1996, prohibiting 13 uses of assisted reproductive and genetic technologies but the bill died on the order paper at the 1997 election.

Draft legislation was thereafter submitted to the Standing Committee on Health on May 3, 2001, for consideration. The committee presented its report, called “Assisted Human Reproduction: Building Families”, in December of last year.

In March 2002, the Canadian Institutes of Health Research, followed by Genome Canada, pre-empted parliament by publishing rules to approve funding for experiments on human embryos and aborted fetuses. This was put off for one year following protests from the official opposition.

The general social policy theme of the Canadian Alliance Party stresses that all human beings possess the fundamental human rights of life, freedom and the right to own and enjoy property.

My colleagues and I will work to underline for the Liberals that human embryos are early human lives that deserve and must be treated with respect and protection.

The bill's preamble does not provide an acknowledgment of human dignity or respect for human life, even though it is stated later in the bill as the principle objective of the agency it creates.

The minority report submitted by the Canadian Alliance to the December 2001 report from the committee recommended:

That the final legislation clearly recognize the human embryo as human life and that the Statutory Declaration include the phrase "respect for human life.

We strongly support and encourage health sciences research and development. We strongly support research on adult stem cells.

We are mindful to respect the constitutional role of the provinces in health care delivery and would ensure that the federal government works with them in a co-operative and constructive manner.

The bill appears to respect provincial jurisdiction by allowing provinces to opt out if they provide an equivalent enforcement regime and by allowing them a representative observer on the board. However we want to be sure the Liberal government across the way respects the provinces.

The bill would provide a more tightly regulated assisted human reproduction regime. This would make it safer and more effective for prospective parents. Health information about donors would be kept for future children.

However there are a number of problems with the bill as well. For example, under the bill, children born of assisted human reproduction technology would not have the right to know the identities of their parents. The government needs to pay attention to the fact that embryos, if not destroyed, naturally become normal children and adults. Another problem is that the government needs to go further than the bill does to ensure that expenses paid to surrogate mothers do not result in effective commercial surrogacy.

In terms of addressing the more contentious issues of the bill, we believe, as many Canadians do, that it is important to define what a necessary use is for this research. We support the creation of an agency, such as the one proposed under the bill, to regulate the sector but we are concerned about the agency's decisions concerning what necessary research is.

We support stem cell research. We are calling for more funding for adult stem cell research.

I would like to take some issue with the comments of the member for London West who quoted a number of scientists and researchers from one particular point of view. I draw to the attention of the House that doctors, scientists and researchers can be quoted to represent almost any point of view on this subject, including those who advocate strictly research on adult stem cells.

I want to take this opportunity to give the Liberals fair warning that they should tread very carefully in legislating this technology. Adult stem cells hold a great deal of promise. It may not be desirable nor necessary to engage in embryonic stem cell research to the great extent advocated by some.

Canada is a leader in the world when it comes to biopharmaceuticals. In Montreal bioscientists report that adult neural stem cells taken from a patient's own central nervous system have been successfully used to treat Parkinson's disease.

In the United States patients undergoing liposuction may want to bank the fat removed from their tummy, backsides and thighs because the excess fat contains stem cells. These fat cells can be stored for years. These stem cells can be isolated from liposuction specimens. They can be grown to bone, cartilage, tendons and other connective tissue. Patients can use them in the future, transforming them into a number of specialized cells, depending upon the patient's needs. If a patient were injured in a car accident, stored stem cells could be used to make bone tissue to repair the damage.

Using adult stem cells collected from a patient's body and stored eliminates the risk of rejection when later reintroduced into that same patient's body. Significantly, it also avoids the ethical issues in using stem cells derived from embryos.

For example, there are more studies to be done. This research is far from complete. It needs to be proved that the transformation of a cell to another type of cell is irreversible. We do not want some chain reaction going from a cell to something that is not even anticipated.

The Liberal government should be taking these and other unknown items into consideration before opening the floodgates on embryonic stem cell research.

This is one reason why the Canadian Alliance is calling for a three year moratorium on experiments on human embryos, until the potential of adult stem cells can be more fully developed. This coincides with the three year review mandated in the bill.

We want free votes in the House at all stages. We want each and every MP to search his or her own conscience, to search the conscience of his constituents and where prudent to pause until we know more about stem cell research. It may be the more reasonable course of action, instead of premature embryonic stem cell research to do it this way.

Developments in adult stem cell research and technology is progressing at an astounding rate with new discoveries frequently being announced. The government and the agency it is creating to deal with these questions should err on the side of caution, instead of charging ahead with decisions that will be very difficult to backtrack on later. As I have said, many members will be detailing aspects of the bill that need to be changed.

I want to close with one thought. At the time of conception when the zygote is formed by the coming together of an egg and a sperm cell, all the DNA that will ever govern that individual's growth is already there and will mark that person throughout the whole lifetime. Using scientific terms from that first moment, we are talking about a person.

It is never a good idea to confuse scientific, legal and religious principles. I do not intend to do that. Science has shown when humanity begins. The law has defined how precious is human life and I see the religious principles which govern my life as confirming these previous two.

My Lord and saviour Jesus Christ at one point while referring to the children said that it would be better for anyone to never have been born than to harm even one of these little children. That was at a time when human life was very precious and when children could be slaughtered at a king's whim.

Let us never go back to harming our children.

[Softwood Lumber, May 8th, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, the Liberal government has been refusing to launch a specific action plan to defend tens of thousands of Canadian workers from losing their jobs and homes because of the Canada-U.S. softwood lumber dispute.

The government says it is afraid the American lumber lobby will accuse them of subsidizing the industry. This same lobby is a handful of wealthy lumber barons working to pump up the price of wood in the United States. They will lose the case that Canada is bringing against them at both the WTO and NAFTA.

Because the U.S. is using the wrong criteria to judge the threat posed by Canada's lumber, the government should go ahead and protect Canadian workers and their families instead of running scared. The longer the government sits on its hands, the higher the risk that individual provinces will try to work deals with the U.S. saying that Ottawa is making no progress and they cannot wait.

The international trade minister is risking the solidarity of Canada's position by letting softwood lumber communities suffer. The government does not care about the pain, suffering and loss being imposed upon forestry workers throughout British Columbia and Canada.

[Supply, May 6th, 2002]

Madam Speaker, the member used rather vague and symbolic language in his speech. Is he saying that we need to study the problem more? Is he saying that there needs to be more research done and more rules applied to the rural segment of our country? That was the impression I was left with from what he said.

I find it hard to understand how in the light of the suffering that people are undergoing in the prairies and in the forest industry in British Columbia, he could suggest that we need to follow him through another study to understand things better. It makes absolutely no sense. I have no patience for that kind of rhetoric when there is so much hurt and suffering and loss going on in our country.

[Supply, May 6th, 2002]

Madam Speaker, one of the things I hope comes out of this debate is that people from urban areas realize how much interdependence there is between urban and rural areas and how uncomfortable many rural people feel.

It is hard not to be cynical when a constituent phoned me recently from Bella Coola on the west coast telling me that after spending tens of thousands of dollars for the fishing licences he needed for his boat, the fishery closed and he did not even have the opportunity to recover the money he spent for the fishing licences.

Another issue that troubles me terribly is the issue of the mountain pine beetle. This bug problem has gone on for many years starting with the fir bark beetle. Many discussions were held with the Department of National Defence because this beetle infestation took place on federal lands for which the federal government was entirely responsible. The government did nothing about it after repeated consultations and commitments indicating that it would do something. The same thing has happened with the mountain pine beetle. After at least two consultations with me and after debate in the House, the federal government has twice said that the provincial government had not even applied to it. This comment was absolutely false. It is this negligence that makes it frustrating.

The mountain pine beetle infestation has cost approximately $3.4 billion worth of wood and another $12.5 billion is at risk. The Minister of the Environment said that this was a natural thing and that nothing could be done about it. What he did not mention was that we put out the fires that normally kill the pine beetle. He also did not say that the wood was not being cut and that nothing was being done to retrieve the money that will be lost as a result of the wood rotting and going to waste.

I cannot understand why the federal government does not heed the concerns of rural Canadians when so much value and wealth is at risk, not only to the government but to the urban centres of Canada. Could the member comment on that please?

[Mountain Pine Beetle, April 30th, 2002]

Madam Speaker, I wish to thank all members for speaking on the motion, particularly those who have offered support and those who have brought comments that I chose not to include because of time constraints.

The member for Vancouver East mentioned that this was not the way that the NDP government would have done this and criticized the Liberal government. The hon. Dave Zirnhelt, who was the NDP minister of forests in British Columbia, spoke to me and he wanted to do exactly what we are proposing today, and that is to provide the means for cutting. The reason that we need to cut is that the wood is infected and the bugs are spreading from that wood. We can either let it rot and fall down or we can cut it and gain the value that is available to us from that wood. The wood is going to be taken out of the forest one way or the other.

I want to comment on some of the things the member for Richmond said. He noted inaccurate information. He said that B.C. had not sought funding. This was a line that was given to me in a question I asked. After that question was asked and the answer given I went to the B.C. minister of forests and said that I asked a question and was told that assistance was not applied for. He looked at me with a strange look on his face and said that was absolute nonsense. I want that myth knocked on the head right now. British Columbia has done all that it can to receive the support that it deserves and that it has a right to expect from the government but has not received. The myths that are being perpetuated by the member for Richmond are not acceptable.

He talks about the minister flying over the Prince Rupert area. I wish he had flown over the area of the military reserve in Chilcotin at Risky Creek. That is another area where this grand infestation began. It is pouring out of federal military lands into provincial forests. This is the second time this has happened since I have been elected. The first time was with the fir bark beetle.

The federal government assured me that it would treat it as it was its responsibility. However not a thing was done, not one single thing. It threw up its hands because it did not get around to doing this. This is exactly what is happening again. I find it deplorable that the Liberal government would offer flawed excuses such as this.

I appreciate that it is a serious problem as the member has said. I too was at the briefing that the Canada forest service offers. I heard it say that this is a natural phenomenon which occurs every 80 years, but the difficulty is that now there are no fires. We have an extended period without the cold weather to control this insect.

Unless the federal government assists the provincial government, there will be a loss to the national treasury as well as the provincial treasury. It is not the government that suffers but the people who suffer.

I wish the member would take a walk and a ride through my constituency and watch the economic decline that my people are suffering, and I use the word suffering with full intention, because of the economic fallback from the softwood disagreement, the loss of jobs, and the loss of business.

It must be looked at. I implore the government and the House to recognize the seriousness of the arguments that I bring. Because it is so serious I respectfully request unanimous consent of the House to have Motion No. 435 made votable.