Justice committee  I agree with you.

Justice committee  I agree.

Justice committee  If the consequences, practically, were the same, then clearly, the criminal conviction is more of a problem, because it carries with it an extra burden with respect to employment and travel and those kinds of issues. So a criminal conviction, if it's on your record, carries those

Justice committee  I'm telling you something that was reflected to us by people across the country. It may be that the particular machines are not that old, but some of the technology behind them, in terms of the ability to accurately describe blood alcohol content, is still that old. Far more soph

Justice committee  I think we've sort of--

Justice committee  Yes, in terms of your last assertion. Yes, it would be if it were applied nationally through the Criminal Code. We don't really have a position on whether the provinces should have identical legislation in highway traffic act legislation, so in that sense we don't see it as an

Justice committee  I wouldn't take that position. I don't think our organization would take that position. Clearly, impaired operation, particularly when it causes bodily harm or death, particularly when it's a repeat offender or somebody who's been put on notice or somebody who has refused treatme

Justice committee  Yes, I would.... I don't mean to say it doesn't matter, because it does matter. I'm just saying that for our purposes we wanted to talk about what the implications would be. So yes, clearly, depending on whether it's a provincial scheme or Criminal Code consequences, we're giving

Justice committee  Interestingly, the big deal for the clients, though, is when can they not drive. In many ways, they don't care too much about the cost, even the legal fees or the fines. The big issues are for how long are they not going to be able to drive and the stigma of it. We find that thos

Justice committee  I was a crown prosecutor for eight years and I saw and spoke to those victims. So I know exactly what you're saying, sir. I would hope my submissions to you today reflect our genuine concern to stop repeat drinking and driving while at the same time not abandoning our charter and

Justice committee  I think we sort of have it right now, and I think that 0.05 is dealt with provincially so there are consequences for it.

Justice committee  Our representative in the Yukon, whom I spoke with just this morning, tells me that it's $500 to install and then you have to pay a $100 monthly fee. The $500 may be a little on the low side; I've heard it's as much as $1,500.

Justice committee  You're referring to the legislation that to a certain extent effectively removed what was called the Carter defence.

Justice committee  It's in a variety of stages. Essentially it's being challenged at the trial level. For example, in Ontario we now have dozens of different trial decisions speaking to whether or not that legislation should be applied retrospectively or on a forward basis. It's a patchwork quilt.

Justice committee  I didn't mean at all to give the impression that we don't think there's significance to that choice. All I'm saying is that for the purposes of my submission to this committee.... There are many people who can tell you about the research on blood alcohol levels, the effects in ot