Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons Act

An Act to amend the Criminal Code in response to the Supreme Court of Canada decision in Attorney General of Canada v. Bedford and to make consequential amendments to other Acts

This bill was last introduced in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session, which ended in August 2015.

Sponsor

Peter MacKay  Conservative

Status

This bill has received Royal Assent and is now law.

Summary

This is from the published bill. The Library of Parliament often publishes better independent summaries.

This enactment amends the Criminal Code to, among other things,
(a) create an offence that prohibits purchasing sexual services or communicating in any place for that purpose;
(b) create an offence that prohibits receiving a material benefit that derived from the commission of an offence referred to in paragraph (a);
(c) create an offence that prohibits the advertisement of sexual services offered for sale and to authorize the courts to order the seizure of materials containing such advertisements and their removal from the Internet;
(d) modernize the offence that prohibits the procurement of persons for the purpose of prostitution;
(e) create an offence that prohibits communicating — for the purpose of selling sexual services — in a public place, or in any place open to public view, that is or is next to a school ground, playground or daycare centre;
(f) ensure consistency between prostitution offences and the existing human trafficking offences; and
(g) specify that, for the purposes of certain offences, a weapon includes any thing used, designed to be use or intended for use in binding or tying up a person against their will.
The enactment also makes consequential amendments to other Acts.

Elsewhere

All sorts of information on this bill is available at LEGISinfo, an excellent resource from the Library of Parliament. You can also read the full text of the bill.

Votes

Oct. 6, 2014 Passed That the Bill be now read a third time and do pass.
Sept. 29, 2014 Passed That Bill C-36, An Act to amend the Criminal Code in response to the Supreme Court of Canada decision in Attorney General of Canada v. Bedford and to make consequential amendments to other Acts, as amended, be concurred in at report stage.
Sept. 29, 2014 Failed That Bill C-36 be amended by deleting the long title.
Sept. 25, 2014 Passed That, in relation to Bill C-36, An Act to amend the Criminal Code in response to the Supreme Court of Canada decision in Attorney General of Canada v. Bedford and to make consequential amendments to other Acts, not more than one further sitting day shall be allotted to the consideration at report stage of the Bill and one sitting day shall be allotted to the consideration at third reading stage of the said Bill; and that, 15 minutes before the expiry of the time provided for Government Orders on the day allotted to the consideration at report stage and on the day allotted to the consideration at third reading stage of the said Bill, any proceedings before the House shall be interrupted, if required for the purpose of this Order, and in turn every question necessary for the disposal of the stage of the Bill then under consideration shall be put forthwith and successively without further debate or amendment.
June 16, 2014 Passed That the Bill be now read a second time and referred to the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights.
June 12, 2014 Passed That, in relation to Bill C-36, An Act to amend the Criminal Code in response to the Supreme Court of Canada decision in Attorney General of Canada v. Bedford and to make consequential amendments to other Acts, not more than five further hours shall be allotted to the consideration at second reading stage of the Bill; and That, at the expiry of the five hours provided for the consideration at second reading stage of the Bill, any proceedings before the House shall be interrupted, if required for the purpose of this Order, and, in turn, every question necessary for the disposal of the said stage of the Bill shall be put forthwith and successively, without further debate or amendment.

May 18th, 2023 / 4:50 p.m.
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Cathy Peters Educator, As an Individual

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I am a former inner city high school teacher and private citizen raising awareness about human sex trafficking—sexual exploitation for the purpose of prostitution—in order to stop it.

Prostitution would not exist without trafficking. Prostitution would not exist without buyers. Prostitution everywhere in the world is unequal, unhealthy, unsafe and unfair to women. In regard to any federal policy or law regarding women and girls, the question to ask is, does this practice or industry make women more equal and advance the equality of women and girls, or does it set the equality of women and girls backwards?

Since 2014, when the Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons Act became federal law, I've been doing presentations to politicians, police and the public. I just presented at the Canadian Sexual Exploitation Summit.

The most notorious cases in Canada for human sex trafficking and sexual exploitation are from British Columbia: Amanda Todd, victim; Reza Moazami, trafficker, 23 years in jail; and Robert Pickton, sex buyer and serial killer.

B.C. is an example of PCEPA not being enforced, and the result is that sex buyers and sex traffickers act with impunity. British Columbia has become a magnet for criminals and organized crime. B.C. urban centres have become sex tourism destinations. Sex traffickers are targeting very young girls from 10 to 12 years of age.

Dr. Jacqui Linder, a traumatologist from Alberta, states, “Human trafficking is one of the forms of trauma that when you really understand what people are going through and what is being done to them, it is true evil.”

Survivors tell me that it is easy to get into the sex industry and very hard to get out.

Former MP Joy Smith states that education is our greatest weapon. Her foundation operates the National Human Trafficking Education Centre.

In my brief, I described the current trends contributing to human sex trafficking, and I gave 10 recommendations to stop human trafficking and sexual exploitation. Please read my brief to the federal justice committee of February 2022.

PCEPA focuses on the source of harm: the buyers of sex and the profiteers. The clear statement from Parliament was that girls and women are not for sale. They are full human beings with dignity and human rights.

Repealing this law would be a disaster. With the longest border in the world, Canada would become America's brothel. Indigenous women and girls would be the first casualties.

The reason we have a growing problem with sexual exploitation today is that PCEPA was never consistently enforced across Canada. Police were not trained to enforce it, attorneys general and justice systems had no training about it, and there was no robust prevention education rollout campaign to explain it, so Canadians do not know about it.

The idea that sex work is work is completely contradicted by the preamble in PCEPA, the testimonies you have heard and my 40 years in prevention education.

Men and boys are the key to end sexual exploitation and trafficking, because they are the perpetrators and buyers of sex. They need to be taught that girls have value and worth and that every woman and girl has the right to be free of violence.

Please check out my website at beamazingcampaign.org. It is a one-stop shop on the issue. My book is finished, hot off the presses: Child Sex Trafficking in Canada - and how to stop it. It has the resources and research to stop this in Canada. I have a book for each party, including the Bloc. MP Andréanne, I want to make sure that you get a copy as well.

Thank you very much.

March 27th, 2023 / 11:20 a.m.
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Conservative

Anna Roberts Conservative King—Vaughan, ON

Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you to all the witnesses for being here.

I'm going to ask Ms. Walker a few questions. First of all, congratulations on helping more than 8,000 women and on your work with Shine the Light. That is to be commended. Thank you for doing that.

My question pertains to Bill C-36 from 2014, which targets Johns who purchase sex and the pimps who profit from it, while providing support for prostitutes who are looking to escape sex work. Do you believe the implementation and enforcement of this bill is working?

April 1st, 2022 / 2:40 p.m.
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Lawyer, As an Individual

Naomi Sayers

That's a really good example.

I'll share a story from law school. I was sitting in law school in constitutional litigation class and working on a theoretical challenge to Bill C-36, PCEPA, which we're here on today. We were building our fact pattern, and I remember my constitutional law prof saying, “That doesn't happen.” I said, “Yes, it does.”

What he was referring to was my personal experience. Working in the northern region, you have to have a driver. If you don't have a driver, you will be hitchhiking. There is no Greyhound bus. There are no cabs. Cabs will not take an indigenous person anywhere unless they charge exorbitant fees. If you do the research that's out there, the cabs even will drop off indigenous women in particular in spots that they didn't ask to be brought to. I said, “You know, PCEPA prevents indigenous women—in particular, young indigenous women—from having those supports.”

The reason I talk about my story so much is that it's not heard. It's not considered. I entered when I was 18. I was still in high school. I was learning to live with a brain injury. I had just survived a horrible car accident and had almost died. I was working two minimum-wage jobs. When you have a brain injury, you have headaches—migraines. You're tired. I was like, “I can't achieve my education goals to go to university if I'm working two minimum-wage jobs.” I was not living at home, and sex work was there.

If you attack minimum wage, if you attack safe housing, if you tackle those other supports.... Maybe I never would have gone into sex work. I don't know, but it got me out. It led me to where I am today. I'm a lawyer and I help other victims and survivors. I think that's key.

April 1st, 2022 / 1 p.m.
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Melissa Lukings Juris Doctor, Author and Researcher, As an Individual

Thanks for having me.

Hi. I'm Melissa Lukings. As was just said, I just finished my law degree as a juris doctor from UNB Law. I have a B.A. from Memorial University in Newfoundland and Labrador. All of my education, so two degrees as well as life expenses, has been paid for entirely by sex work. In total, I have 14 years of lived experience in sex work. That includes experience working in massage parlours, managing a massage parlour, operating an advertising website, as well as years of independent work. In terms of scope, it spans Ontario, New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, P.E.I. and Newfoundland and Labrador.

While completing my law degree, and prior to that as well, I was actively involved in sex work research and advocacy across Canada, specifically with the Safe Harbour Outreach Project in Newfoundland; SafeSpace in London, Ontario; as well as the Canadian Alliance for Sex Work Law Reform.

With regard to exploitation, I have had experiences in sexual exploitation, which overlapped with but were distinct from my experiences in sex work, so I will speak to that as well. I've completed the sex trafficking and sexual exploitation course offered by the Arizona Trauma Institute, and I also volunteered with the Sexual Assault Crisis and Prevention Centre in Newfoundland.

I want to highlight the timeline. I started out in sex work in 2008. Between 2008 and 2014, when Bill C-36 went into effect, is six years, and from 2014 to 2020, when COVID happened, work slowed. That was also six years. So I have six years before, that year in between, and then six years after....

To put it into context, I was a sex worker before Bedford. I was a sex worker after Bedford, but pre Bill C-36. I was a sex worker after Bill C-36. I have experienced sexual exploitation. I can speak to the legal issues through the lens of advocacy, and lived experience in sex work, as an employee, an employer, an advertiser and an independent—that does make me a third party—as well as lived experience in exploitation, again which is separate from the sex work.

Very quickly, I just want to talk about what an expert witness is. Before meeting everyone today, I did a little bit of a—I'm not going to call it a deep dive—light dive into everyone's backgrounds. The majority of you seem to be law folk, so I want everyone to think back for a moment to those law school days when you were first learning about evidence. It's a required course for us, so I'm assuming it's a required course for everyone. It's a great class. Do you remember evidence?

In evidence, you learned what qualifies someone as an expert witness. We're talking about unbiased perspective, peer-reviewed, published and lists of qualifications. There are some issues with finding qualified expert witnesses for vulnerable communities. We've had that be a thing in the past. I wrote a paper on it. It's included in my brief, which you will get later.

Where does Paul Brandt fit into this? I can't not say it. I don't get it. I don't know who invited him. After my background investigation, I have some suspicions, but whoever it was needs to refresh their memory on relevant evidence and expert witnesses. A country musician involved with an anti-trafficking group has nothing to do with providing meaningful insight into how laws impact sex workers in the country. It doesn't make any sense.

When you have an expert witness, they're someone who is supposed to provide experience and insight which cannot be intuited without their testimony. I think that was a waste of time, and it made me sad that he was invited before I was, because we both applied.

I want to give you a metaphor.

You're tasked with hanging a poster on a vital community bulletin board. To accomplish this, you're given a few thumbtacks—simple enough. However, rather than using your thumb to press the tacks into the board, you decide to bring in your gas-powered, heavy-duty, reverse engine hammer drill from home. Do you get the tacks in the board? Well, yes, sure. However, in the process of doing so, that gas-powered, heavy-duty, reverse engine hammer drill also ended up fracturing the frame of the bulletin board, effectively breaking it. As a happy bonus, you also ended up causing extreme, extensive structural damage to the wall behind it. Will you be getting any gold stars for this assignment? No, you will not. Nobody's going to be handing out any gold stars to you for damaging the community's bulletin board, no matter how far you bashed that tack into the board before it broke and fell off the wall.

Did your method of completing the task end up creating a scope of impact much wider than you intended? It would seem so. I feel certain in saying that if the assignment you're given is to hang a notice on a bulletin board using thumbtacks and you break the board entirely, no one's giving out gold stars.

Let's talk about these laws. Do they target human trafficking and sexual exploitation? Yes, just as we targeted the notice and the tacks on the board—

March 22nd, 2022 / 4:05 p.m.
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Jeneane S. Grundberg Chair, Municipal Law Section, The Canadian Bar Association

I'll hit the high points.

First, we're recommending that there be revisions to add definitions to subsection 213(1.1), the offence respecting communication to provide sexual services by the seller.

Second, we recommend that the same prohibition be extended logically to other situations where children frequent.... School grounds, playgrounds and day care centres are mentioned, but this should be extended to other locations such as swimming pools, recreation facilities and shopping malls.

Third, we would encourage the committee to pursue more grassroots consultation.

Fourth, we recognize that since Bill C-36 became law, the final report of the National Inquiry into Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls has been released. For ease of reference, we have attached the relevant calls for justice, and we encourage you to reference those calls for justice when you're deliberating on the future changes.

Thank you very much for the opportunity to present.

March 4th, 2022 / 2:40 p.m.
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Bloc

Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC

All right.

Ms. Jay, is the interpretation working, or am I talking to myself? You can hear me? Good.

Earlier, you told us about your recommendations to improve the Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons Act, the former Bill C‑36. Is there a document?

Have you produced a brief that contains all your recommendations to this effect? If not, are you preparing one?

March 4th, 2022 / 2:40 p.m.
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Alexandra Stevenson Ford

To answer your question about Bill C-36, I think we need to keep it. I briefly touched on this but I think it would help the current workers who keep hearing that sex workers are marginalized and in survival mode and for multiple reasons unable to move beyond that survival mode.

Decriminalization would certainly help these workers move within their survival mode more freely but it would be unlikely to provide resources to give these workers a leg up and to get them out of that survival mode. As far as I'm concerned, widespread resources and education to prevent people from existing in a survival mode that results in the sale of their own bodies is the best way to create foundational change.

Decriminalization and repealing PCEPA, as I said, would certainly result in those short-term benefits but the long-term detriments of having more people being exploited due to increased demand and the overall continued lack of resources that result in the sale and commodification of human bodies would continue to be an issue.

We need to keep PCEPA and work together to provide resources so we don't see people having to work the streets because they are in survival mode.

March 4th, 2022 / 2:35 p.m.
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Bloc

Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My question is for Ms. Stevenson.

In your testimony, you were telling us that we should distinguish between prostitution and human trafficking, which I think is obviously self-evident. No one will disagree with that.

However, when you tell us that, I take it that prostitution is, in your view, a proper and tolerable activity that should be supervised and supported, whereas human trafficking is a criminal act that should obviously be criminally prosecuted.

Furthermore, you say that you support the legislation arising from Bill C‑36 and that you do not believe it should be abolished. I would like you to explain clearly your position on this matter. Indeed, since the bill has had the effect of criminalizing the purchase of prostitution, if I can use that expression, this is detrimental to sex workers who would like to file a complaint. That, at least, is what the other witnesses told us.

Where exactly do you stand on this issue? Do you think this law should be abolished or kept? If you think this law should stay in place, I'd like to hear from you on how we can improve it.

March 4th, 2022 / 2:25 p.m.
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Conservative

Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, ladies, for your participation this afternoon. All of you have presented some very passionate arguments that will assist this committee in this very important study.

The time I have permitting, I'd like to ask a number of questions, starting with you, Ms. Stevenson.

I must say, Ms. Stevenson, that your story is a powerful one, and I'm glad you started the preamble by asking us, in recounting your life journey, to walk with you.

For someone who has spent 30 years in law, and in particular the last 18 as a Crown prosecutor, dealing with similar victims, it is quite reassuring to me to hear from you that you have found your voice, that you have not just been patronized by the police for your strength you exemplified during the prosecution, and that you are now not only a survivor, but you're also an advocate. You should be very much congratulated for that. I'm very proud of you for your attendance today and what you have to share.

The gist I got from listening to you very carefully is that part of your strategy is all about educating the public. I'd like to hear from you specifically on your ideas with respect to those who propose repealing Bill C-36, and those, such as you and others you've heard from today, who feel that this is a very important piece of balanced legislation. How does education fit within that equation?

March 4th, 2022 / 1:40 p.m.
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Bloc

Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC

... I would like you to answer a question in a few words.

In your opinion, should Bill C-36, or the Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons Act, be abolished in order to legalize prostitution, or should it be retained and improved to better protect sex workers?

March 4th, 2022 / 1:20 p.m.
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Conservative

Rob Moore Conservative Fundy Royal, NB

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all of our witnesses today as we finish up a very important study.

We know that this legislation came about after the Bedford decision. It's an attempt to strike the right balance, but there are always improvements that can be made.

I note that just in the last few days we've seen the Court of Appeal for Ontario uphold several provisions of PCEPA, or Bill C-36. That brings us to this study. We're studying ways we can improve the law and how the laws work. We've certainly heard from a wide variety of witnesses, some who are very supportive of PCEPA.

I have a question for the Peers Victoria Resources Society. There are two witnesses here. I guess you can decide between yourselves who would like to answer.

It was mentioned that you provide harm reduction support services, education and employment training for current and former sex workers. Could either of you elaborate on what those support services look like, education and employment training as well? Perhaps share with the committee what that looks like typically, the services you are providing for your region.

March 1st, 2022 / 5:25 p.m.
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Bloc

Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I thank you also, Ms. Big Canoe.

I'd like to discuss two issues with you.

First, according to your testimony, Bill C‑36, which was passed in 2014, did not really help the situation. If I understand correctly, in your view, the solution is not to crack down.

I would like you to confirm that and tell me whether the provisions currently in the Criminal Code are sufficient and well suited to address this problem or whether the Criminal Code should also be amended.

Should we amend the part of the Criminal Code related to human trafficking and prostitution?

Then I'd like to talk about consent. Earlier, you said that we should focus on the difference between prostitution and human trafficking. A previous witness told us that the main difference was consent. I thought that was an enlightening distinction. I'd like to hear your thoughts on that.

Can we say it is prostitution when the person gives consent, and say it is human trafficking when the person does not give consent, regardless of age?

March 1st, 2022 / 4:50 p.m.
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Conservative

Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON

Thank you for that.

Part of your narrative was to talk about the overincarceration rates of indigenous offenders, particularly in this area. When you testified before the committee when Bill C-36 was being debated, you objected to the bill because of the acute aboriginal overrepresentation in the criminal justice and penal systems, and the overall impact this bill would have on a number of aboriginal sex workers, their families and communities.

What has been the impact, in your opinion, of Bill C-36 on the overrepresentation of indigenous people in the criminal justice system and on indigenous sex workers, their families and communities?

March 1st, 2022 / 4:40 p.m.
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Kelly Tallon Franklin Chief Executive Director, Courage for Freedom

Thank you, Chair.

This is a very difficult day.

I am Kelly Tallon Franklin with Courage for Freedom. I'm CED and chair of committees for Canadian and international ECOSOC organizations for business and professional women.

As a survivor of the sex trade, I share current experiences with over 427 minor-aged women and girls, personally and professionally supported. I am sharing their perspectives with additional information from traffickers, johns, different areas of the sex industry, law enforcement, frontline support workers, friends and families. It includes all oriented communities, including the Black, ethnic, language and religious faith communities, as well as all socio-demographics.

I do not speak to repeal Bill C-36, PCEPA, as it's still in the best interests of Canada as a whole. I ask instead that the committee review sections and amendments of it, as well as witness testimony, briefs and documents against CEDAW concerning the difficulty—and our responsibility as a UN-sanctioned nation and as a founding member—of individual versus collective and societal rights and responsibility.

I would also ask that you note the UN's neutrality in view of four choices: the Nordic model, decriminalization, partial decriminalization and legalization.

My [Technical difficulty—Editor] would also say that under decriminalization they have, as indigenous women, been placed at further risk of harm, violence and even murder without increased safety or liberties.

In Germany, the studies of 80% of their population report that the law does not work. In 2017, all parties there agreed the laws were a failure. In Costa Rica, sex trade women have suffered. Legalization lowered their standard of living to less than $2 an hour, opened doors to international criminals, placed them as the now number one central Latin American country for sex tourism with increased child exploitation, and lowered their tier status at the UN.

Canada has a tarnished record, as human trafficking is the second-highest national grossing crime. However, in our quest for a ranking globally, may we not just seek to legalize all aspects to influence our status, but base everything we do on safety and security, addressing root causes and not governmental controls?

In the highest per capita community in Canada, officers I work with have asked me to share the information that they believe repealing PCEPA will result in more bridges to international organized crime and heightened victimization. Project Maple Leaf, which we founded, saw that a large number in the sex trade and in prostitution have not been charged under these current laws, but the procurers and benefactors from the sale of others as managers in that 5% agency privileged advanced have exemplified personal gain under the guise of helpful support of the oppressed and marginalized.

Hard and grey data used under the law enabled the discovery of victims and survivors of the sex trade who were protected, regardless of charges laid, plea deals or prosecution. I agree that inconsistent policing poses an issue, but we also understand that when we bring these issues to the surface, we are going to see a retribution of actions in crime.

A sex industry female friend said openly, “I am not afraid to say that without PCEPA, I and others in the sex industry would have been arrested and without options. Those who aim to repeal these laws do not speak for me.” Repeal will make it even easier for them than it currently is to buy and sell children, and marginalize and oppress women and youth.

An 18-year-old who is fighting out-of-sex-trade trauma has been told in a women's and girls' shelter that she's not “woke” and is being gaslit by posters that her body is her choice and sex work is real work. Last week, she was told that she should do some stripping or rub and tugs as harm reduction to pay for a baby stroller.

Statistics show the likelihood of rape, both as an escort or in the street trade. Murder rates are higher, whether it's legalized or not, and 95% are still under-represented by agency. It means there's no equity in privilege, race or economy that could be presented to you today, and that third party profiteers draw on the criminal element.

How can we possibly weigh the effectiveness, when some of our measurements' activities were not even enabled given the COVID situation?

Today, I'm not a conflationist and I don't want to remain polarized, but I demand consideration of the sex trade, sex industry, human trafficking, sex trafficking, labour trafficking, violence against women and girls, domestic violence, murdered and missing indigenous women, sexual exploitation and, as a witness already stated, the consideration of youth sex workers. Yes, consider them, but please consider them as child rape victims. Request more report consideration from the Canadian Centre for Child Protection and the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children as representatives of the visual, written and audio sex trade to actually and adequately represent everything, including the previous misrepresented data about jails, probation and parole.

Honourable Chair, what will be the report implications of our time in history? What will be the choices and the rights?

If we do not have a means to discover—

March 1st, 2022 / 4:35 p.m.
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Christa Big Canoe Legal Advocacy Director, Aboriginal Legal Services

Good afternoon, and thank you for inviting me to present to the committee. My name is Christa Big Canoe, and I'm the legal advocacy director of Aboriginal Legal Services. It is our position that the Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons Act is an end-demand legislation that is not effective, that it is not creating positive change, and that it increases harms and opportunities for violence against sex workers.

Given my limited time, I'm going to point to the Pivot Legal Society's “Evaluating Canada's Sex Work Laws: The Case for Repeal” as a good document that this committee is encouraged to read, review and seriously contemplate.

Stigma perpetrates conditions that have allowed predators to murder, rape and abuse sex workers with impunity. Police fail to investigate and prosecute these crimes when they involve indigenous women, girls and 2SLGBTQQIA+ community members. They are assumed to be sex workers. The National Inquiry into Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls heard this horrific narrative time and time again. Negative stereotypes about sex workers continue to have adverse impacts on the way indigenous women are portrayed, seen and treated. An example of this was apparent in R. v. Barton, in which Cindy Gladue was reduced to being referred to multiple times in court as a native prostitute, native girl and sex worker.

Disappeared and murdered indigenous women are often assumed to be sex workers or reported in the media as being sex workers. This belief, although erroneous on many occasions, results in less attention being paid when indigenous women go missing.

Laws prohibiting the exchange of sex for compensation between consenting adults are not the way to end violence against indigenous women or to address inequality and systemic poverty. The pervasiveness of these stereotypes and racism is so ingrained that the Supreme Court in Barton in 2019 had to instruct that:

[O]ur criminal justice system and all participants within it should take reasonable steps to address systemic biases, prejudices, and stereotypes against Indigenous persons—and in particular Indigenous women and sex workers—head on. Turning a blind eye to these biases, prejudices, and stereotypes is not an answer. Accordingly, as an additional safeguard going forward, in sexual assault cases where the complainant is an Indigenous woman or girl, trial judges would be well advised to provide an express instruction aimed at countering prejudice against Indigenous women and girls.

Sexual exploitation of indigenous women and girls and two-spirited community members occurs well before they decide to engage in sex work. Indigenous children who are apprehended into child protection services at alarming rates in this country often experience sexual exploitation. Addressing issues of poverty and inequity and decolonizing approaches to child welfare institutions is the leading way to reduce sexual exploitation that indigenous children in this country experience.

The acute mass incarceration of indigenous women in Canada's correctional institutes also demonstrates the high criminalization of indigenous women. Indigenous women now account for 42% of the women inmate population in Canada. Laws that further perpetuate stereotypes and distinguish groups such as sex workers are harmful, and overcriminalized populations are the ones that face the most scrutiny from authorities, even when it's not warranted.

The ban on purchasing sex directly impacts sex workers' safety and indigenous sex workers' safety, engaging the rights of liberty, life, and security of the person under section 7 of the charter, as well as section 15, the guarantee of equality under the law.

The court in Barton also reminded us of an important thing:

Our criminal justice system holds out a promise to all Canadians: everyone is equally entitled to the law's full protection and to be treated with dignity, humanity, and respect. Ms. Gladue was no exception. She was a mother, a daughter, a friend, and a member of her community. Her life mattered. She was valued. She was important. She was loved. Her status as an Indigenous woman who performed sex work did not change any of that in the slightest. But as these reasons show, the criminal justice system did not deliver on its promise to afford her the law's full protection, and as a result, it let her down—indeed, it let us all down.

We call for the repeal of PCEPA . It's unconstitutional and actively prevents people who sell or trade sexual services from enjoying their fundamental charter rights.

Like Pivot, Aboriginal Legal Services was an intervenor in the Bedford case before the Supreme Court of Canada. We intervened mainly because of the life and liberty risks that the Criminal Code provisions were creating for indigenous sex workers.

In July 2014 we also made submissions to this committee on Bill C-36. At the time, we objected to the passing of Bill C-36 because of the acute indigenous overrepresentation in the criminal justice and penal systems. This situation has only gotten worse in respect of those two issues.

The overall impact of the bill—

March 1st, 2022 / 4:20 p.m.
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Conservative

Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON

I'll go over to you, Mr. Brandt. I will say your testimony was absolutely gut-wrenching. I know you didn't identify the country as you described the circumstances and what you saw, but your description brought me back to my days as a member of the Brantford Crown office, being responsible largely for all the Internet child exploitation prosecutions for the last 10 years.

It really brought me back to that dark period of my professional career, which really caused me to reflect on the vulnerabilities of our youth.

I have a quick question with the minute and 30 seconds remaining.

Bill C-36 made some amendments with respect to the penalties associated with trafficking of adults and trafficking of minors. As it stands right now, there is only a one-year differential with respect to the minimum penalties for trafficking minors versus trafficking adults. Given your advocacy, given what we've heard today, do you think that adequately denounces this type of heinous crime against the vulnerable members of our community?

March 1st, 2022 / 4:15 p.m.
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Conservative

Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON

Along a similar vein, we know that the court of appeal rendered a unanimous decision, so there is no automatic right to appeal to the Supreme Court. If leave were granted—and this is all hypothetical— by the Supreme Court of Canada, do you foresee any constitutional vulnerabilities with any other aspects of Bill C-36?

March 1st, 2022 / 4:05 p.m.
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Bloc

Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC

Thank you.

Mr. Brandt, if I may, I would like to ask your opinion on this same question regarding the difference observed on the ground after the coming into force of Bill C‑36.

March 1st, 2022 / 4:05 p.m.
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Bloc

Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC

Thank you, Ms. Allison.

Bill C‑36 came into force in 2014. On the ground, what differences do you see between the period before the bill came into force and the period after it came into force?

I am asking Mr. Brandt the same question. He can answer it after Ms. Allison.

March 1st, 2022 / 4 p.m.
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Bloc

Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

To begin, I would like to welcome all the witnesses and thank them for being with us today.

Human trafficking is a scourge. I was particularly moved by Mr. Brandt's testimony about children. I can't imagine that happening here in Canada today. I would add, however, that it is part of our job to try to clarify and improve the laws that are in place.

Ms. Allison, could you continue the answer you were giving when the chair turned the floor over to me? You were giving us your suggestions.

You also talked about standardization, and you were asking that there be consistent application across Canada. For example, you mentioned that British Columbia did not always apply the provisions set out in Bill C‑36, and that surprised me.

You also talked about the issue of criminal records. In a way, the existence of criminal records prevents offenders from working.

I would like you to continue to list the things that could help improve the situation.

March 1st, 2022 / 4 p.m.
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Barton Thaney Law, As an Individual

Gwendoline Allison

One of the challenges, which I think Mr. Brandt touched on, is that Bill C-36, or PCEPA, is not being uniformly enforced across Canada. Particularly in B.C., it was declared very early on that the Vancouver Police Department would not engage in arresting purchasers of commercialized sexual services. That policy has been taken throughout B.C. in other police forces.

That's the first problem. The legislation has not been given a chance to operate properly in B.C.

I think a number of improvements to PCEPA could be made to protect the rights of women and those engaged in prostitution. I'll say that there's a big difference between PCEPA and the previous legislation. The purposes are completely different. They're in different sections of the Criminal Code. It's now a crime of violence rather than a property offence and a nuisance offence, so it recognizes that this is a crime of violence, as the Ontario Court of Appeal has just recognized.

I would say there are a couple ways we can improve the federal approach towards prostitution. First of all, we need consistent application across Canada. Second, when I appeared before Parliament back in 2013, everyone was unanimous in saying that section 213 should be repealed. I agree with that still. The communication provision outside schools and churches, although I recognize and appreciate the goal of it, has the effect of criminalizing those who are engaged in prostitution. Also, by criminalizing them, it prevents them from exiting. In my submission, that should be repealed.

There's also expunging the records of those who have been convicted of selling sexual services in order to permit them to gain employment. There are many pieces of legislation across Canada that prevent those with criminal records from working, particularly in the volunteer sector. That is a barrier to exiting, which tends to punish the more vulnerable.

Increased funding—

March 1st, 2022 / 4 p.m.
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Liberal

Élisabeth Brière Liberal Sherbrooke, QC

Thank you.

I will now address Ms. Allison.

Ms. Allison, you represented, as counsel, the Asian Women Coalition Ending Prostitution, an intervener in the Bedford decision. You are therefore familiar with the findings of the case.

The court found, among other things, that the provisions of the Criminal Code then in force infringed the right to safety of persons selling sexual services.

Since the passage of Bill C‑36, do you believe that people who work in the sex industry are better supported and guided?

What would be your recommendations?

February 15th, 2022 / 5:35 p.m.
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Conservative

Rob Moore Conservative Fundy Royal, NB

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to both of our witnesses for their appearance today. I think this is very helpful for us in this study.

Ms. Kent, I appreciate the work you are doing in your collective. We're hearing a lot about Bill C-36, and I note that you raised the issue of survivors and said that listening to people who have had dealings in this industry would be advantageous for us.

From their feedback, what do you think would happen if Bill C-36 was completely repealed, meaning we have no criminalization whatsoever in this area?

February 15th, 2022 / 5 p.m.
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Conservative

Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON

Ms. Lam, just quickly, please, can you offer any suggestions by way of any potential amendments to Bill C-36 to offer greater protection to Asian migrant workers?

February 15th, 2022 / 4:55 p.m.
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Conservative

Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you so much, Ms. Lam and Ms. Kent, for attending today and providing us with some valuable testimony as we study this piece of legislation. It's a legislative review of the PCEPA. I want to thank you for your advocacy.

I'm going to start with you, Ms. Kent. I took an opportunity, in preparing for this hearing, to look at your website. You touched upon it in your opening remarks. We've heard so far—and I'm sure we're going to hear more on later occasions and at later dates—witnesses who are proponents of decriminalization. We've heard supporters, such as you, strongly advocating for continuing on with the benefits of Bill C-36.

Can you expand for us a little on some of the disastrous effects of decriminalization in New Zealand?

February 15th, 2022 / 4:45 p.m.
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Lynne Kent Chair, Vancouver Collective Against Sexual Exploitation

Good afternoon, everyone. Thank you for this opportunity to speak to you.

I am Lynne Kent, chair of the Vancouver Collective Against Sexual Exploitation. We are a collective of organizations and individuals with many years of work and experience in this field.

Bill C-36, in my understanding, is now a law called the Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons Act. It is socially, legally and relationally transformative in its approach to addressing the objectification and commodification of women and girls. It is a leading-edge instrument, recognized globally, and it is focused on protecting the right to life, liberty and the security of persons, which the sex trade violates every day.

Our government has been a global champion of comprehensive health rights and gender equality, and PCEPA provides you with all the opportunities to achieve this. It addresses the most significant factor in the disempowerment of women: the commercialization of women's bodies, which comes from supporting male demand and a sense of entitlement to sex whenever, wherever and with whomever they want. PCEPA says no and, in a recent poll, five times as many Canadians agreed.

Safety for women is what we are all advocating for. Preventing exploitation within the sex trade has proven to be impossible. The harm done to the women and girls being exploited is well documented, and repealing the law will do nothing to change that. In fact, it will increase both the harm and danger to those in prostitution, all women and children, and communities.

It is a cruel lie to suggest that changing this law will make it safer for anyone in the sex trade. The evidence is everywhere. The lobby to repeal this law is more about safety for the exploiters. Don't be fooled; the pimps, johns and traffickers are the only ones to benefit here.

Yes, listen to those in the sex trade, but which ones? Do you listen to the privileged few who claim to be there by choice, or the vast majority, who are there because of lack of choice, who have been lured, seduced and coerced, want out, can't get out, are trapped and have no voice? You won't hear from them. They won't be at this table, because they are not free to speak up.

The closest you can get to the truth is from the survivors, those who manage to get out and care enough about others to endanger themselves—make no mistake—and tell the full story. Those who truly care about the safety and well-being of everyone in the sex trade know there is no meaningful harm reduction. Laws can't be made to serve a few. This law must focus on the protection and safety of the majority.

New Zealand prostitutes protested, campaigned and lobbied for full decriminalization, only to find out that their own agency was reduced and all the benefit, control and power went to the brothel owners, pimps, johns and exploiters. If you repeal, you will increase the harm and danger to all women and children, specifically those who are indigenous, immigrant, poor and racialized, as well as every single child from age 10 to 18.

Do you want that to be your legacy? Do you want that on your conscience? We will be here to hold you accountable, to point the finger and lay the blame where the fault belongs. It is your responsibility to protect exploited communities and persons, not to facilitate the sex trade and the inherent severe harm you have been told about again and again.

We have submitted a brief that identifies what is valuable about PCEPA. However, this gold-standard law will achieve its potential only if it is implemented. We need consistent enforcement across the country. We need training of the police, a public education campaign and robust support for those exiting.

Where will you align yourself, on the side of Canadian citizens and communities or on the side of organized crime? It's not the law that causes the harm. It is the men who buy sex. Until we address the demand, nothing will change.

February 15th, 2022 / 4:40 p.m.
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Elene Lam Executive Director, Butterfly (Asian and Migrant Sex Workers Support Network)

Good afternoon.

My name is Elene Lam. I am the executive director of Butterfly (Asian and Migrant Sex Workers Support Network). I have a master's in law and social work and have worked on human rights and gender-based violence for over 20 years, nationally and internationally.

Butterfly is a community-based organization that organizes and provides support to over 5,000 Asian workers who work in massage parlours and the sex industry across Canada. It includes permanent residents, refugees and non-status women.

As a sex worker rights organization, we are a defender of human rights and sex workers' safety. Today we will share the voices of Asian migrant sex workers with you, because we would like to tell you that this law does not prevent exploitation and does not protect women. It does the opposite and harms sex workers. It is a lie to say that sex workers can continue to work under this law. I can give you more evidence. We have done a lot of research and collected a lot of stories from sex workers about that.

Racialized and migrant women face violence, bad working conditions and exploitation every day in all industries, including caregiving and factory work. As a response, we do not see calls for criminalization of these industries; rather, we call for migrant and labour protections. Sex work is the way to resist oppression, access income, gain social resources and escape abusive relationships for many Asian and migrant women.

Most migrants dream that they can be free and safe when they move to Canada; however, reality is different. Criminalization of sex work and lobbying to eliminate the sex industry promote violence, racial profiling, discrimination and hate against sex workers. Hotel staff, landlords and even NGOs are asked to monitor sex workers. Cities shut down Asian massage parlours.

In the Atlanta shooting, six Asian women were killed. This is not unique in the U.S.; it has also happened in Canada. Seven Asian workers have been murdered. It's because of the hate of sex work. It's because of the criminalization of sex work. When you label sex work as violence, you don't recognize the real violence against the sex worker.

Criminalization means sex workers are often arrested and deported when they report violence. One sex worker who was seriously injured in a robbery said that she would rather suffer the violence than be arrested. When our Butterfly helpline rings at midnight, my heart pounds because I don't know if our member is being robbed, arrested or even murdered.

Essential systems for migrant sex workers, including friends, third parties and clients, are being framed as traffickers. They are arrested when they help each other. Almost 200 women were charged for procuring and advertising in the last few years. One of the sex workers was arrested just because she helped other workers to advertise, communicate and screen clients.

Instead of protection, law enforcement is the major source of violence. Thirty percent of sex workers report that they have been harassed, sexually assaulted and abused by law enforcement.

Due to the conflation of sex work and trafficking, law enforcement keeps targeting sex workers. The police broke the door with a warrant when a worker was sleeping. She was handcuffed and not allowed to get dressed before answering questions. Her ID was taken; her money and phone were taken away, and she was asked if she was safe. She told the police that she was safe before they came. She was terrified because she didn't know whether she would be deported, charged or outed.

The stereotype about Asian and migrant sex workers is that they are passive, ignorant trafficking victims, yet migrant sex workers have been vocal about the need to decriminalize sex work and remove the criminal law, immigration law and bylaws that invite the police into our lives. This law creates vulnerability. We are not victims. We are workers. We know best about our lives. We know how the law harms us.

In the words of migrant sex workers, you should not criminalize and take away our work. You should not control our bodies. If you really care about the rights and safety of the workers, you should respect our agency and listen to us. You should not put more harm and danger into our lives.

It is not only Butterfly that has witnessed this harm. Many organizations of violence against women and human rights organizations, like the Ontario Coalition of Rape Crisis Centres and the Global Business Coalition Against Human Trafficking, all bear witness and have shown opposition to the criminal law against sex workers.

We urge the government to listen to the community and repeal Bill C-36, which harms and kills sex workers.

Thank you.

February 15th, 2022 / 4:40 p.m.
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NDP

Randall Garrison NDP Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I just want to say, for the record, that I too was here when Bill C-36 was passed, and despite some implication here that there was broad support for the bill, only Conservatives voted for it. The Liberals and New Democrats did not.

I want to go back to the representatives from Halifax and talking about a public health approach. I'm assuming the situation in Halifax is the same as it is in my community, where you find an overrepresentation of indigenous people, racialized Canadians and often those who are from my community—the LGBT community—represented in sex work. I wonder if that is in fact the case in Halifax and whether the general causes you're talking about are the same: the lack of access to the basic necessities and to good employment opportunities.

February 15th, 2022 / 4:35 p.m.
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Founder and President, Joy Smith Foundation Inc.

Joy Smith

Bill C-36 is very valuable. I think we could strengthen it even more by putting the prevention piece in it.

Also, something that comes up over and over again, and what we've found at the foundation, is that once you work with survivors, they need a way out. They need education and they need a different path, because when they start out, they're innocent victims, really. Someone lures them into the sex trade. In Canada, 93% of our traffic victims are Canadian born. They need to have a pathway whereby they can get re-educated and find a job to support themselves. That's the reality. A lot of them stay in it because they have no way out.

Then you have the enhanced addictions. You have all the trauma they go through when they can't provide their own children with the necessities of life.

We could go even further as parliamentarians, by adding to Bill C-36 to make that component a reality, bridging among all the levels of government—federal, provincial and municipal—because I think that is neglected in a lot of ways. All these levels of government are very important in the solutions we need for the victims of human trafficking.

February 15th, 2022 / 4:25 p.m.
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Founder and President, Joy Smith Foundation Inc.

Joy Smith

I appreciate that question, because Bill C-36 was the basis that I built my bills on. We have evidence every day of Bill C-36 being very effective.

The shutdown of licensing for body rub parlours and escort services, for instance, was very important in the city of Winnipeg. The last victim I pulled out of one of those body rub parlours was 13 years of age. Because of Bill C-36, the emphasis now is on the perpetrator or on the john. They are the ones who get brought to justice. Before Bill C-36, it was the women who were arrested. Now that doesn't happen.

We've had many cases out of the 6,000.... The other day, I had my assistant bring some information to me in preparation for today. We've had 1,223 cases—I think; I don't have it in front of me—of victims who actually went to police because we were saying to them that this is the law.

The danger is that a lot of people don't know what the real laws are. If people belong to a certain group or to one organization, they all think the same way. We have to think outside the boxes.

That's what I did when I was in Parliament. I had friends on all sides of the House, including Liberal, Bloc Québécois, NDP and everybody who really wanted to end the horrendous torture that some of these young girls went through in human trafficking. No one talked about how a lot of these young people were targeted. They became boyfriends and girlfriends of the perpetrators unknowingly. They didn't realize that eventually they would be trafficked and their lives would be changed forever. The rehabilitation side takes a very long time. The reintegration into families takes a very long time. The girl who left home is not the girl who comes back, if she comes back.

I'm very positive that if we have that education out there and we work together on all sides of the House to support Bill C-36, keep it there and build on it....

When we talk about root causes, since the beginning of time we've talked about housing and education and all of that. That's very valid. I found in our intervention program that providing a pathway to education after coming out of human trafficking and providing a pathway to housing so they can live in a safe place was a game-changer in Canada. It would be a travesty not to have it there, because we've had clear evidence all across Canada.

We are a registered, not-for-profit, national NGO. From all the provinces, and that includes Nova Scotia, we've had evidence of Bill C-36 being a really big asset to the victims of human trafficking. We have to be very careful when we put away a bill that was the basis for the voice of the victims of human trafficking. I think it has to be there and I think it has to be enhanced.

February 15th, 2022 / 4:25 p.m.
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Conservative

Rob Moore Conservative Fundy Royal, NB

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all of our witnesses. It's great to hear from you and to hear about the work you're doing, both the YWCA Halifax and the Joy Smith Foundation. I appreciate your input into this very important study we're doing.

My question is for Joy Smith. You mentioned two private member’s bills that you were able to pass as a member of Parliament.

It's good to see you again. I served at the same time as you. I also appreciated.... I guess you were far less partisan than I was, so you were able to get strong support across the aisle for your private member's bills.

Can you speak a bit to the tie-in with what you're doing now and Bill C-36? What do your private member's bills do and what is their tie-in to Bill C-36?

February 15th, 2022 / 4:20 p.m.
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Executive Director, YWCA Halifax

Miia Suokonautio

That was part of our presentation as well. In fairness, we also spoke with some of our local Crown prosecution here as we prepared this presentation.

First of all, where so few cases make it to the courts, it's an important.... It's this balance of harm. In some cases, Bill C-36 may be used, but we're balancing it against those who don't come forward.

We're also balancing it against the fact that other laws exist around exploitation. We've been talking about human trafficking here, but human trafficking is also its own criminal offence. That does not go unchanged if we talk about Bill C-36. Child pornography laws.... These types of things can still exist separately, even if we revisit Bill C-36. They remain there.

What's really vital for us is the evidence base. What is the evidence base when we make claims? Did this bill truly limit the number of people coming forward? All we can tell you is what we're seeing. If we rely on court data, it's only those who went to that point.

This is where I'll do a two-second plug. YWCA Halifax, together with our test partners, is doing work. We've currently wrapped up the second round of a provincial survey of people with lived experience. It is extremely high quality. It's excellent. This is what we should be using to determine our policies, not our opinions.

February 15th, 2022 / 4:20 p.m.
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NDP

Randall Garrison NDP Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC

At the beginning, there was some mention of the fact that there are many other laws around exploitation that would continue to exist if this law didn't exist. The experience in my community is that those other laws quite often are not used. Instead, there's an over-reliance on the provisions of C-36. In your experience in Halifax, would you say that's the case?

February 15th, 2022 / 4 p.m.
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Founder and President, Joy Smith Foundation Inc.

Joy Smith

There should be greater emphasis, if there is any improvement on Bill C-36, on imposing the prevention piece and getting the prevention piece out there. There's little said about the prevention of human trafficking, so we've made that one of our major focuses at NHTEC.

For Bill C-36, my very strong recommendation is that a fulsome prevention program be put in place. We can talk about partnerships with the different jurisdictions. Having been an MP for 12 years, I have found that there's little connection between the federal, provincial and municipal governments. There needs to be more liaison between the three on the prevention side, and we could have a recommendation put in Bill C‑36 to address that issue.

February 15th, 2022 / 4 p.m.
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Conservative

Rob Morrison Conservative Kootenay—Columbia, BC

Okay, and on Bill C-36 in particular, in terms of penalties, how can we improve the legislation, and is there an opportunity there to also address prevention?

February 15th, 2022 / 3:50 p.m.
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Joy Smith Founder and President, Joy Smith Foundation Inc.

Good afternoon, Mr. Chair and distinguished members of this committee.

I want to recognize and acknowledge that our offices are located on treaty territory, the original lands of the Anishinabe, Cree, Oji-Cree, Dakota and Dene peoples, and on the homeland of the Métis Nation.

I am a former member of Parliament. I worked hard during my time as an MP to bring the human trafficking issue to the public radar screen here in Canada. The Joy Smith Foundation was founded in 2011 to combat human trafficking. Since then, I volunteer every single day at my foundation to continue the work to bring awareness about human trafficking in Canada and to help survivors and their families restore their lives.

Last October, we launched the National Human Trafficking Education Centre, the first of its kind in Canada. The centre provides free education for parents, teachers, law enforcement, service providers and others. We have 64 instructor-led modules that are currently being put online so that Canadians can receive much-needed information about how traffickers operate and what they can do to protect themselves from these predators.

We have worked on over 6,000 files of victims and their families, to restore their lives and help the victims reintegrate into the communities and back into their families. Our prevention and intervention programs at the NHTEC will be online for easy access for Canadians as soon as we get the translations completed in French and English and into some indigenous languages.

A five-minute presentation at committee today does not give justice to the complex issue of trafficking in persons and how important Bill C-36 is to the safety of our youth. It was the catalyst that set the groundwork for so many victims of human trafficking to be able to speak out and bring their perpetrators to justice. It helped me, when I was a member of Parliament, to bring the survivors' voice to the public radar screen.

When I was in Parliament, I had two bills passed to combat human trafficking: Bill C-268 and Bill C-310. They are embedded in the Criminal Code of Canada today. I had widespread support from all sides of the House at the time I was passing these bills, and I give credit to the survivors for telling their stories.

Members from all sides of the House supported these bills, and that was critical, because it opened a nationwide conversation about human trafficking and how its victims were suffering. More than that, Canadians, including the survivors themselves, started their own organizations to combat human trafficking.

Bill C-36 must remain, and parliamentarians must do more to protect their constituents from these predators, because the traffickers are in every constituency in our country. Victims of human trafficking are the recipients of horrid abuse and often lose their lives. To legalize prostitution would be a travesty of massive proportions against our most vulnerable populations, our LGBTQ, our immigrants and our youth.

I see it over and over again every single day: the suffering of young victims of human trafficking and what they endure at the hands of human traffickers, traffickers who seek to make copious amounts of money off their victims, as much as $260,000 to $280,000 per victim per year. That is why they do it. Most of the victims enter the sex trade at a very young age, as young as 12 to 14 years, and some even younger.

Before Bill C-36 came on the scene, there was nothing that effectively reduced the demand for the exploitation of underage girls and boys from traffickers, and in criminalizing the johns who create the demand for sexual services, Bill C-36 has helped curtail the human trafficking.

Human traffickers are the third parties who promote and capitalize on the demand for sex by facilitating this practice. They initially pose as benevolent helpers, providers or protectors to those innocent victims, who are lured into the modern-day slave trade. Bill C-36 addresses this issue as one of the objectives that has helped greatly in bringing these perpetrators to justice: It recognized trafficked victims as individuals who are lured and live through the horrid human trafficking experience with horrendous physical and mental traumas on their shoulders.

For the first time in Canadian criminal law, the purchase of sexual services is illegal. This helps in bringing traffickers to justice, because this offence makes prostitution itself an illegal practice, but this is a balanced law, because these adults who choose to sell themselves for sex are protected by law and can do so with no ramifications.

Recently, in Winnipeg, we were able to lobby to shut down the licensing of massage parlours and strip clubs. This is where human traffickers often place their victims.

Thank you so very much for this time today, because I have to say loud and clear, Bill C-36 is very helpful and very successful in doing these kinds of things.

In conclusion, parliamentarians must strive to keep Bill C-36 and do so much more to ensure trafficking in persons is no longer a factor in Canada.

Meegwetch.

February 15th, 2022 / 3:45 p.m.
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Executive Director, YWCA Halifax

Miia Suokonautio

They didn't get the memo. They're all off having their supper already.

Thank you so much, everybody, for having us. It's really a tremendous pleasure to be here. I'm Miia Suokonautio. I'm the executive director of YWCA Halifax. Temi Abiagom and Charlene Gagnon are with me. We come to you as a team.

I want to start by saying that we're very much carrying the stories and experiences of survivors and victims, thrivers and victors. We were talking quite humbly about what a great responsibility this is.

I will do our five minutes here, but any one of us can answer questions. Temi manages our youth exploitation team, which provides direct services. Charlene is the manager of our systems approach to exploitation, working with our government and community partners.

I begin also by highlighting [Technical difficulty—Editor], but also something really remarkable that is happening in Nova Scotia. It's a movement. It's the Nova Scotia trafficking and exploitation services system—we call it TESS—partnership. It includes more than 70 partners across the province, including the YWCA. These partners have worked together for more than five years. Although this thoughtful and committed group has built consensus around practice and human rights as related to exploitation, there is no consensus among the group about the decriminalization or legalization of the industry.

We will focus our testimony or our comments on Bill C-36 itself, but will not be commenting on the broader question of decriminalizing or legalizing the sex trade, because we feel a real responsibility to our partners.

With that, in watching prior testimony from last week, we understand that there are in fact really two questions before you now. The first is this: Does Bill C-36 protect people who are being exploited? That's a very important question. Is it protecting people? The second is this: Does it cause harm to vulnerable Canadians?

On the first question, if Bill C-36 protects people who are being exploited, the short answer is no. Bill C-36 is not protecting people who are being exploited. Again, we know that you've heard expert testimony from our colleagues from across the country. In our experience, people continue to be exploited. Even when there is no pimp, they are still being assaulted when engaged in transactional sex. Even though we have special Crown prosecutors and special policing units and there are no licensed strip clubs in Nova Scotia, the issue of exploitation is rife in Nova Scotia. It permeates the child welfare system. It is a crisis among indigenous women and girls. School administrators and teachers are at odds over how to stem the tide.

In Nova Scotia's youth correctional facility, Waterville, as well as in the adult system, almost without exception girls in detention have been exploited. We are also seeing increasing cases among boys and trans women. Among the dubious distinctions of our Atlantic province is that we have the highest per capita rate of human trafficking in the country.

In short, we have no evidence that would support the claim that Bill C-36 has prevented or ended the exploitation of vulnerable Canadians in our province.

On the second question, on whether Bill C-36 is causing harm, again, our experience is very similar to what has been described in previous testimony presented to you, in that Bill C-36 has prevented people from coming forward if they've been assaulted by a john. The bill has also pushed the sex industry further underground, into increasingly unsafe conditions.

In fairness, I want to add that, at the same time, as we understand it, there have been some benefits of Bill C-36 in the courts. If there is a case in which exploitation by a third party does not meet the standard of a human trafficking charge as defined by the Criminal Code, Bill C-36 has been used instead to hold perpetrators accountable. The bill can subsequently be assistive to the Crown and police, but whether it harms or helps victims has not been proven. That a small proportion of cases makes it to the point of prosecution may in fact make this potential benefit less consequential. We must consider the balance of harms.

I know I'm going to run out of time, but maybe the YMCA comment will give me just a minute more. I have a couple of further considerations.

One is that we have to understand and be transparent about the fact that this discussion is deeply affected by our values about sex and commercial transactions for sex. Whether we care to admit it, our values are squarely in the middle of this discussion. We urge you to prevent morality from infringing upon the rights of Canadians, including sex workers. Although you may personally hold views about the impropriety of sex work, we must not allow the human rights of those involved in the sex industry to be denied because of it.

Secondly, we remind you that there are already a host of prohibitions and laws on a variety of related matters, including sexual exploitation of youth, assault, sexual assault and human trafficking. Revisiting C-36 does not mean these laws are no longer in force.

Lastly, exploitation is in fact a very difficult thing to pin down. For example, young people are being exploited in many ways in our community for simple things like housing, food or access to substances. While this act of trading is technically covered by Bill C-36, it is very rarely applied in these cases and does not address the underlying needs of youth that precipitated their vulnerability.

Finally, what do we recommend? According to one of our local colleagues, there is no way we can arrest our way out of this problem. There is no silver bullet for addressing exploitation. There is no quick fix. Pretending that we can bring an end to the sex industry is a chimera.

Instead, if we are serious about addressing exploitation, we must understand that commercial sexual exploitation preys on vulnerability, and fundamentally vulnerability is best addressed in the context of the social determinants of health, not the legal system. It involves adequate income, good housing, food security, support for families, education, self-determination and much more. These more than anything else will give us the best hope to address exploitation.

February 11th, 2022 / 2:25 p.m.
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Co-Executive Director, HIV Legal Network

Sandra Ka Hon Chu

Yes. Thank you for the question.

I want to quote the Supreme Court of Canada in Bedford. It's a case we intervened in almost 10 years ago. The Supreme Court said at the time that a law that prevents sex workers from taking basic safety precautions is “a law that has lost sight of its purpose”. I think that is what we have here with PCEPA. You heard about the research I've conducted. You've heard from other researchers. There's extensive evidence since the passage of PCEPA that shows the law absolutely prevents sex workers from taking very basic safety precautions, and that has affected their safety. It has fuelled exploitation.

When you conflate sex work with human trafficking, it means that it's all meaningless. What is exploitation when everything is conflated? I often hear also from sex workers that they are often the people who can identify situations of abuse or exploitation within their industry, but when they or their clients or their peers and managers are all criminalized, they will not go to the police. You heard the reporting statistics. It's horrendous how few sex workers, especially indigenous and racialized sex workers and migrant sex workers will go to the police in any circumstance, even in the most violent situations they might experience, because people are preying on them with impunity. They won't go to the police.

I think the only answer is to fully repeal the Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons Act.

February 11th, 2022 / 1:45 p.m.
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Conservative

Rob Moore Conservative Fundy Royal, NB

Thank you, Chair.

You know, it's become clear that we could easily spend three hours with this panel, because there is so much great information being provided and so much expertise and real-life experience.

I think we have to be very clear as well. Bill C-36, which was a response to the Bedford decision, makes it very clear that selling your own sexual services is protected from criminal liability. It's already decriminalized. What people who are calling for full decriminalization now are saying that, obtaining sexual services for consideration, those who buy, sell and exploit.... As Cathy Peters and other witnesses have identified, the vast majority being exploited are women. That this should somehow be legal, that we should decriminalize the purchase and sale of Canadians, mostly women, many people, of course, reject outright.

You made a number of statements that I want to hone in on kind of quickly. One, you mentioned Canada's potential to become “America's brothel”. You drew on your experience in B.C., where you said that the legislation that was passed in 2014 is not being enforced. You're seeing evidence of how different provinces are treating it.

Could you explore that a little further and how the failure to enforce this law leads to more victimization?

February 11th, 2022 / 1:30 p.m.
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Ph.D., Community Health Sciences, As an Individual

Dr. Claudyne Chevrier

Thank you very much.

You are right, the Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons Act was implemented in response to the Bedford decision. Unfortunately, the intention behind the Bedford decision was not followed. I am not a legal expert, but this is my opinion. As I explained earlier, sex workers—that is, people who sell sexual service—are still considered criminals.

I followed the discussions on Bill C-36, in which Senator Donald Neil Plett was one of the participants. I heard that the goal was to make it so difficult for everyone in sex work that it would force them to move on. But that's not what happened. Instead, the situation has been made very difficult for sex workers. New barriers have been created that prevent them from accessing the services they need.

The goal of reducing demand is a very strong idea among prohibitionists, among people who are against sex work. Unfortunately, there is no evidence that this works. For example, Sweden adopted a similar legal framework, in 1999 I think, and it did not work. The only data we have is that the demand may have dropped a little bit at first, but it has not continued to drop in a sustained way.

However, we know that there has been an increase in violence and harassment against sex workers. As a result, they now have to hide more from social services and the police.

I don't think this approach works. Furthermore, I feel that it goes against the idea that I have been advocating and that is supported by the research evidence, which is that we need to focus on the safety of people working in the sex industry.

Regardless of what some people think or feel about the sex industry, it exists and will continue to exist. Citizens who work in the industry have a right to be safe. They must have access to the same resources as other citizens.

February 11th, 2022 / 1:30 p.m.
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Bloc

Kristina Michaud Bloc Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I thank the witnesses for coming and giving evidence. We are very grateful to them.

I will in turn address you, Ms. Chevrier.

Bill C-36 was enacted in the context of the Bedford decision, which found that certain provisions of the Criminal Code at the time imposed dangerous conditions on prostitution. The bill had three major objectives: to protect those involved in prostitution who were considered victims of sexual exploitation, to protect communities from the harms caused by prostitution, and to reduce the demand for sexual services.

In light of your testimony, we understand that this bill has not protected people involved in prostitution. In fact, it has put them in even greater danger. I would like you to tell us more about this aspect.

I'd also like to hear you talk about the third objective, which is to reduce the demand for sexual services. Where do you think this goal came from? Do you think it has been achieved?

February 11th, 2022 / 1:20 p.m.
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Conservative

Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON

Okay.

With the time I have remaining, I'd like to focus on the criminal penalties under Bill C-36.

As you know, Bill C-36 criminalized certain types of behaviours, which resulted in mandatory minimums, dealing with adults, of anywhere from four to five years, depending on the circumstances.

Do you feel that the changes in the legislation under the Criminal Code have had a required deterrent impact as a result of that legislation change?

February 11th, 2022 / 1:10 p.m.
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Ph.D., Community Health Sciences, As an Individual

Dr. Claudyne Chevrier

Thank you so much, Mr. Chair.

Good afternoon, everyone. I'm happy that I was finally able to join.

I'm here to share some insight from the research I conducted on sex work in Winnipeg, Manitoba, over the last decade. I completed a Ph.D. in community health sciences at the Max Rady College of Medicine at the University of Manitoba in 2020. My dissertation topic was on access to health and social services for cisgender and transgender women and non-binary people selling or trading sex in the city.

The methodology I used was ethnography in order to talk about access to health and social services. I needed to characterize what's happening politically and socially around sex work in Winnipeg and, of course, that's framed in the legal context, which for the entirety of my data collection was the Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons Act.

My research indicated that sex workers and people who sell and trade sex have poor access to health and social services, experience a lack of safety, serious stigmatization and barriers in accessing what they need. This relates to a general climate of indifference and stigma, which is framed by the current legal context. My research points to, among other things, the fact that policies, programs and laws should focus on approaches that prioritize the safety, health and well-being of sex workers on their own terms. One of the ways towards achieving that is the decriminalization of all aspects of the sex trade.

Before I tell you a little more about my research, I want to give you a clearer picture of who it is I talked to. I did formal, semi-structured interviews with 39 sex workers and people selling sex, 12 interviews with stakeholders and over four years of participant observation with sex workers' rights activists in the city. That's in addition to document analysis and literature review of local, national and international literature.

Of the sex workers and people who sell sex whom I spoke to, the average age was 36, and the range was from 20 to 55 years old. Among this group, 52% indicated that they were indigenous, aboriginal or Métis, and 17% said they were white. I asked everyone where they mostly meet clients, and the most common answers were on the street, in bars and online in order to meet in person. I am telling you all of this to give you an idea that I spoke to a very diverse group of people.

I want to give you one example from my research that is about the climate of a lack of safety for sex workers in Winnipeg under PCEPA. It also happens to be an example of a very important documented dynamic in Winnipeg, which is the aggressive silencing and erasure of sex workers' voices if they do not see their experience as exploitative. This is shown in my dissertation, and it's noted in other research as well. I won't talk about it too much here, but I wanted to point it out.

The example is that, in 2017, at a town hall meeting, Chief Danny Smyth of the Winnipeg Police Service, answered a question from a local sex workers' rights advocacy group, the Sex Workers of Winnipeg Action Coalition, about the safety specifically of sex workers under PCEPA and he stated that he believes that "My general view around the sex trade is that most people involved are being exploited in one way or another." He then added that he refers to them as “exploited persons, whether they be men, women or children”.

Chief Smyth plainly stated that he does not think that sex workers exist in Winnipeg. I invite you to think about what that means when the chief of police does not think that you exist. Sex workers who were present who heard that said that it meant to them that they are not to expect recognition or protection from police services. This is especially true for populations that are already over-policed, like indigenous people and other racialized groups.

My research documents the unacceptable experiences of discrimination and stigmatization that most of my participants encounter in health and social services. Not everyone described experiences of discrimination, but everyone was concerned about it and used strategies to avoid it and to keep themselves safe from it. Stigma and the fear of it touched everyone.

Feelings that ranged from mistrust to outright anger and fear of the police were expressed by 12 of the people I talked to unprompted. One person I talked to, I called her “C” in my dissertation, was as 49-year-old indigenous cisgender women who worked outdoors. After she told me that she would never report a sexual assault to the police, I asked her if she would be willing to share why with me, and she said: “Because I don’t like the police. It’s like because you’re in that area they look at you like a “nobody”.... I don’t even trust them. They’ve done things to the workers that not any normal person would. They just tend to degrade the workers on the street I know that.”

People I spoke to asked for services to be more compassionate, to use appropriate language, to educate themselves on the varied realities that exist in sex work, to hire more sex workers and, above all, to respect their humanity.

This was the most devastating result—

February 11th, 2022 / 1:05 p.m.
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Jennifer Dunn Executive Director, London Abused Women's Centre

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

My name is Jennifer Dunn, and I am the executive director of the London Abused Women's Centre.

In Tuesday's session for this study, it was said that what is needed is less law, fewer statistics and more information from the ground from the most directly impacted, so thank you for having me here today.

The London Abused Women's Centre is a feminist organization located in London, Ontario, that supports and advocates for personal, social and systemic change directed at ending male violence against women and girls. We are non-residential and provide women and girls over the age of 12 who have been abused, assaulted, exploited and trafficked with immediate access to long-term, trauma-informed and woman-centred counselling, advocacy and support.

Over the next few minutes as I talk to you about our work, I will be referring to our centre as LAWC. I will also be using the term “sex industry” from time to time. The sex industry includes women who have been prostituted, sexually exploited and trafficked. LAWC does not use the term “sex work”.

During LAWC's last fiscal year, over 4,600 women and girls who were abused, assaulted, exploited or trafficked were provided with individual counselling and group support. During this same time, LAWC also answered over 5,000 calls for support.

LAWC has been providing services to women and girls involved in the sex industry for nearly 25 years. Since 2015, LAWC has supported over 2,800 women and girls involved in the sex industry and over 1,800 women and girls who were at risk of becoming involved in the sex industry. This number includes at least 68 girls who reported that they were under 18 years of age.

Young women and girls between the ages of 12 and 21 are at the highest risk of being sexually exploited, groomed and lured into the sex industry, often by traffickers who manipulate them into believing they are in a relationship. LAWC recognizes prostitution as male violence against women and incompatible with women's human rights; it is the demand for prostitution that fuels sex trafficking.

The Nordic or equality model—in Canada's case, the Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons Act—decriminalizes women in the sex industry while criminalizing sex purchasers and traffickers. This same model provides support services and safety planning to those wishing to exit and to those who are not able to exit. It also educates communities about the impacts of prostitution and sexual exploitation on the lives of future generations.

Canada needs this legislation to protect the most vulnerable before the trafficking laws need to come into play, and the best approach to reduce sex trafficking is to continue to decriminalize the women and girls being exploited while criminalizing the sex purchasers and traffickers.

Some women and girls come to LAWC because they are being abused by their intimate partner. After a few sessions, it is revealed that the woman's intimate partner is also her trafficker. Many sexually exploited women and girls attending LAWC identify that they have endured horrific torture and abuse from sex purchasers and traffickers. They report suffering from significant mental health issues and physical trauma from these experiences. They come to LAWC looking for support.

Some women and girls became involved in the sex industry independently, but report that they quickly ended up under the control of someone else. Women have reported that they were lured into the sex industry. Some entered for survival.

Women report being suicidal, and some die by suicide. Some women have significant substance use issues, because they are introduced to an addictive drug as a way for them to cope or a way for them to be controlled. Most women report that they are forced to have unwanted sex with multiple random men, with some women saying that they must meet certain quotas day after day.

You may never hear from those who are most vulnerable. They may not even know that the issues directly impacting their lives are being talked about at this very moment in the House of Commons.

Since 2014, after the change in the legislation, there have been fewer homicides of women in the sex industry, fewer women accused in sex trade-related incidents and more men accused of obtaining sexual services from a minor.

LAWC and other agencies like ours across Canada see women every single day who have been exploited and lured with the promise of, or hope for, a better life. The truth is that the sex industry is putting women and girls at risk every single day. Normalizing the sex industry by decriminalizing the purchasers and traffickers would set women's rights back decades.

The government has a responsibility to make decisions based on the best interests of all. This is not an individual issue.

Thank you.

February 11th, 2022 / 1 p.m.
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Cathy Peters Educator, As an Individual

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm a former inner-city high school teacher raising awareness about human sex trafficking and sexual exploitation for the purpose of prostitution, which is modern-day slavery.

Here are some stats. Thirteen years is the average age of recruitment and it's much younger for indigenous girls. In the Vancouver area, the target age has now dropped to 10 to 12 years old. COVID has made this worse. Traffickers are organized and sophisticated. Ninety per cent of the luring, grooming, buying and selling is online on social media platforms.

Fifty-four per cent of the sex trade is indigenous, and it's 70% to 90% in urban centres. They are severely overrepresented in the sex industry. I told the B.C. indigenous chiefs in front of Minister of Justice David Lametti that this is the most egregious form of systemic racism in Canada. Eighty-two per cent who are involved in prostitution have experienced childhood sexual abuse or incest. Seventy-two per cent live with complex PTSD. Ninety-five per cent of those involved in prostitution want to leave: It is not a choice or a job. The vast majority of prostituted persons are pimped or trafficked, and organized crime and international crime syndicates are typically involved. Crime follows the money, and traffickers make hundreds of thousands of dollars per victim per year.

My goal is to traffick-proof every community in British Columbia and to stop the full decriminalization of prostitution in Canada by supporting the federal law, the Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons Act. I've been involved with sexual exploitation prevention for over 40 years and began raising awareness full time for the last eight years since PCEPA became federal law. In 2014, I began presenting to politicians at all three levels of government, the police and the public. I explained PCEPA so that the police would enforce it and the public would understand it and be able to report it

The law has four parts. Number one, it targets the demand by targeting the buyer of sex. The trafficker, facilitator or buyer of sex is criminalized. Number two, it recognizes that the seller of sex is a victim, usually female, and is immune from prosecution. Number three, exit strategies are in place to assist the victim out of the sex trade. Number four, there is robust prevention education so youth, children and the vulnerable are not pulled into the sex industry.

This law focuses on the source of the harm: the buyers of sex and the profiteers. The clear statement from Parliament was that girls and women in Canada are not for sale: They are full human beings with dignity and human rights.

In eight years, I have made over 500 presentations to over 20,000 people, not including the presentations that can be viewed online, but the turning point was last March when the Kamloops mass grave was reported. Since then, I have made over 200 presentations to city councils, regional districts, school boards, police forces, schools, frontline service providers and indigenous groups, including the missing and murdered indigenous women and girls gatherings in British Columbia.

I have three points.

Number one, PCEPA is not known or enforced in B.C. Therefore, B.C. is the best province in Canada to buy sex. Organized crime and international crime syndicates are typically involved.

Number two, PCEPA has never had a national rollout campaign. Some Canadians have not heard of the law, and the police are not getting the funding or training to enforce the law.

Number three, the sex industry wants to repeal PCEPA to normalize, commercialize and institutionalize the sex industry in Canada. If this happens, Canada will become a global sex tourism destination and America's brothel. Indigenous women and girls will be the first casualties. No Canadian would ever support this.

Consistent enforcement and the strengthening of PCEPA, combined with a robust educational campaign, are needed. Without the enforcement of the law, the sex industry will continue to grow rapidly. The review of PCEPA puts Canada at a tipping point. Repealing or weakening the law will have a catastrophic impact on this beautiful country of Canada.

In conclusion, I do not want anyone on this committee to be under any illusion that the sex industry is safe. It can never be made safe. It is a deadly industry. I have presented with the forensics RCMP officer who picked up and identified the body pieces on the Robert Pickton farm.

Trisha Baptie is presenting in the next hour. She is a survivor and was a journalist for two years at the Pickton trial.

Please read and understand the Robert Pickton case thoroughly. That describes the reality of the sex industry and how it works.

Thank you.

February 11th, 2022 / 1 p.m.
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Liberal

The Chair Liberal Randeep Sarai

I'm going to call this meeting to order. Welcome to meeting number three of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights. Pursuant to the motion adopted on Tuesday, February 8, the committee is meeting to review the Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons Act.

Today’s meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, pursuant to the House order of November 25, 2021. Members are attending in person in the room, and remotely using the Zoom application. The proceedings will be made available via the House of Commons website.

With regard to a speaking list, the committee clerk and I will do our best to maintain a consolidated order of speaking for all members, whether they are participating virtually or in person.

There's one witness still trying to connect, but otherwise, I would like to welcome our witnesses.

I will be using cue cards, so if you are in the last 30 seconds of your remarks, and you see it, I will give you a warning without interrupting you. When you are out of time—I do not want to be rude—I will put up the out-of-time card.

I would like to call Cathy Peters as our first witness. If you could speak for five minutes, we'll then have the next witnesses speak for five minutes each as well, and then we'll have a round of questions.

Ms. Peters, please go ahead.

February 8th, 2022 / 5:20 p.m.
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Sergeant, Ottawa Police Service, As an Individual

Carolyn Botting

I agree that they are similar, but they're not the same. I had a train of thought and I lost it.

Sometimes they go hand in hand.

I'll just reiterate my biggest concern. Where is the protectionary law? If Bill C-36 is a protectionary law, then human trafficking is the trafficking side, and they are not always one and the same thing.

February 8th, 2022 / 5:20 p.m.
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Conservative

Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON

That is consistent with my interpretation that each jurisdiction has a different focus in terms of how it applies the law. It should come as no surprise that provincial objectives and provincial statistics probably differ as well.

Taking that one step further again and contrasting Ms. Wesley's statement in her testimony so far, she also says it would be an error to conflate Bill C-36 with human trafficking.

I think, to an extent, you probably would agree with me that it's not really conflating the two issues. The two issues are really hand in hand, at least from a prosecutorial standpoint. I've seen numerous instances when, once victims of human trafficking had gone through that ordeal, they ultimately decided to continue selling sexual services on their own after they freed themselves from their abuser.

February 8th, 2022 / 5:20 p.m.
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Sergeant, Ottawa Police Service, As an Individual

Carolyn Botting

I'm certainly no expert on the statistics, and I don't have any data to support what you have said. I also love Ms. Wesley's passion for the work she does.

My understanding of Bill C-36 is that sex trade workers are not charged under this law. At least in my city, we do not target the sex trade the way Ms. Wesley suggests, and we don't target the sex trade workers. We have not for years. We are targeting the abusers who are involved with the most vulnerable. Very often, that's youth.

My question, if I may ask, would be how does Ms. Wesley suggest we protect the youth who are involved if we don't have laws against those who procure them and they haven't met the threshold of human trafficking?

The other thing that we do in our city is work with the victims or with the sex trade workers, if they want to work with us, to provide them safe resources. We do not force them to testify the way we historically did many years ago.

I began working in this field in around 2003, and I was working on the prosecution side—I believe my first was 2005 or 2007. We do not have the practice of forcing those involved in the sex trade industry to, one, co-operate with us or, two, testify.

My biggest concern with repealing this law completely would be how we protect people when they don't fall within the laws of human trafficking, sexual assault or assault, but are simply being recruited and there's no law to protect from that.

If a girl or boy came to their school resource officer and said, “Hey, this girl in my group home or school is really attempting to get me involved and I need help,” where's the law that applies to that situation, and how do we prevent it? That's how I would respond to that question.

February 8th, 2022 / 5:15 p.m.
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Conservative

Larry Brock Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON

Ms. Wesley, among other things, pitches and makes the strong argument that Bill C-36 and the legislation that was adopted is more harmful to sex workers than the stated objectives. I have information before me from the Library of Parliament that would suggest that there might be a disconnect in that particular statement, and I'd like to hear your thoughts on that.

Statistics Canada, in 2021, published that crimes related to the sex trade found a decrease in reported injuries and homicides of sex trade workers after Bill C-36.

Would you agree, with your background in policing, that the changes made by that bill have made individuals who sell sex for money safer? Please explain why or why not.

February 8th, 2022 / 5:05 p.m.
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Bloc

Kristina Michaud Bloc Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC

I want to thank the witnesses for joining us today.

Earlier, I tried to get a sense of the situation from the Department of Justice officials. However, it was a bit difficult for them to express a personal opinion, which we understand. I suppose that it will be a little easier to get that perspective from you, since you have been on the ground since Bill C‑36 was passed.

Have the three main goals of the legislation been met? If so, was there any negative impact?

Ms. Wesley, you spoke about the negative impact on women and girls in the profession, for example. Could you elaborate on that impact?

February 8th, 2022 / 4:40 p.m.
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Senior Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section, Department of Justice

Nathalie Levman

As I said, the case law comes to very different conclusions. We have conflicting results, and I've explained that already, but maybe I can note, as you'll likely recall, that during the study of Bill C-36 some parliamentarians did express their view that Parliament isn't precluded from imposing limits on where and how the sex trade may be conducted. That's from the Bedford case itself, in particular to protect the vulnerable and society from the harms they view as being associated with the sex trade.

These parliamentarians noted that the premise of any charter assessment has changed, because Bill C-36's objectives are significantly different from those of the previous regime. The bill would make the sex trade illegal. Bedford was dealing with a regime in which the transaction for sexual services was legal. It was a legal activity, as the Supreme Court clarified.

Parliamentarians—those in favour of the bill, of course—also noted that the bill attempts to balance the interests of those who choose sex work and are in a position to take steps to protect themselves with the interests of those who are not, by criminalizing purchasing and third party involvement while also ensuring that sex workers aren't prevented from taking certain steps to protect themselves as identified by the Supreme Court of Canada in its Bedford decision.

February 8th, 2022 / 4:35 p.m.
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NDP

Randall Garrison NDP Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC

The Bedford decision, which precipitated this action by Parliament, was fairly sweeping in wiping out all the provisions that criminalized those involved in sex work.

I'm asking for a legal opinion, not a personal opinion. How would you say the court cases that are now coming forward are dealing with the Bedford decision versus Bill C-36? In other words, are any of those cases focused on whether Bill C-36 and its current provisions are consistent with the Bedford decision?

February 8th, 2022 / 4:35 p.m.
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NDP

Randall Garrison NDP Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC

Those who have followed the public positions I've taken on this will know that I was hopeful we could involve those most directly impacted by the law, and that is the sex workers themselves, in the design and in setting the scope of this study.

What you've just told me now confirms to me the importance of the testimony we're going to hear from those witnesses, because what we have is really just a review of case law and police charging statistics, and we don't really have, from Justice, the comprehensive review that we'd really need on this bill.

Again, I'm not casting that at you. I'm just saying that we don't have that available here. I know the committee will keep in mind, as we continue to invite witnesses to the committee, that we really need to have a good balance that includes those who are most directly affected by the legislation.

Ms. Levman, when you reviewed the objectives of Bill C-36, the original bill, you reminded me of what my original objection was. The bill really comes from a prohibitionist stance, so its objectives are to stamp out, reduce and remove sex work. Those are laid out in the objectives as you described them.

Would you agree with me that that is the premise behind Bill C-36?

February 8th, 2022 / 4:35 p.m.
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Senior Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section, Department of Justice

Nathalie Levman

We did partner with the crime statistics division of Statistics Canada to do the Juristat. A Juristat was done just prior to the enactment of C-36 for a comparison. Soon we will be releasing a report on the experiences and characteristics of those who were served by the organizations that received the funding that was attached to Bill C-36.

We also, of course, always monitor jurisprudence, secondary sources and research, etc. That is a normal part of our work, so that we can understand what's going on and how the bill is impacting others from the point of view of stakeholders.

February 8th, 2022 / 4:30 p.m.
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Bloc

Kristina Michaud Bloc Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC

I understand.

Thank you.

I gather that parts of Bill C‑36 have been ruled unconstitutional at the trial level because the provisions make it harder to protect the health and safety of people who sell sexual services.

Do you have any recommendations?

Very hypothetically, how could these parts be improved if they were declared unconstitutional?

Can you make any suggestions?

February 8th, 2022 / 4:30 p.m.
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Senior Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section, Department of Justice

Nathalie Levman

I tried to give an overview of the relevant data that speaks to all of this, including the Juristat from Statistics Canada and the jurisprudence. We have numbers for charges under each offence that can be reviewed in the Juristat itself. I think that the Juristat could be very helpful to this committee in assessing the impact of Bill C-36.

Does that assist you? It's not my role to provide a personal opinion.

February 8th, 2022 / 4:25 p.m.
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Senior Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section, Department of Justice

Nathalie Levman

I've already gone over the available data for the committee for members' information, but I'd be very happy to speak to the bill's objectives, which are, of course, articulated in its preamble as well as in the parliamentary record, which includes the Department of Justice's technical paper on Bill C-36, because it was tabled before both committees that studied that bill.

The record indicated that the bill's ultimate objective is to reduce the demand for sexual services, with a view to discouraging entry into it, deterring participation in it and ultimately abolishing it to the greatest extent possible. The record also indicates that the Nordic model generally, and Bill C-36 in particular, is aimed at protecting the equality and dignity of women and girls, because the model views the sex trade as disproportionately and negatively impacting this group, in particular the most vulnerable among them. The Nordic model also posits that the sex trade both reflects and perpetuates structural and systemic discrimination against women and girls.

The parliamentary record also points to a range of harms that are perceived to be caused by the sex trade, and the legislation is aimed at addressing those harms. They include harm to the individuals involved, in particular the most vulnerable, who may not be sufficiently empowered to protect themselves; harm to women and girls generally by treating them as a commodity; and harm to all of society on the basis that societal inequalities negatively impact everyone.

The record also indicates that the bill was intended to avoid the harms that some perceive to be caused by decriminalization and legalization, such as a larger sex trade and higher rates of human trafficking.

February 8th, 2022 / 4:25 p.m.
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Bloc

Kristina Michaud Bloc Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank the witnesses for joining us today. I appreciate it.

Ms. Levman, Bill C‑36 had three goals. You talked a bit about them. The bill aimed to protect people engaged in prostitution, who are considered victims of sexual exploitation; to protect communities from the harm caused by prostitution; and to reduce the demand for sexual services.

Based on the data that you have managed to collect in recent years, since the passage of the Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons Act in 2014, do you believe that these goals have been met?

I want you to provide an overview of the situation.

February 8th, 2022 / 4:20 p.m.
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Senior Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section, Department of Justice

Nathalie Levman

I can really speak to you only about the knowledge that we have right now. Safety issues were front and centre when Parliament was considering Bill C-36.

Parliament, back then, acknowledged that some people choose to engage in sex work and that that's likely to continue to be the case, even in a regime that's designed to end the sex trade. The record indicates that it's for this reason that the legislation doesn't prevent individuals from implementing certain safety measures, in particular those identified by the Supreme Court of Canada in its Bedford decision.

In particular, the parliamentary record indicates that the legislative exceptions to the material benefit offence mean that sellers of their own sexual services may interact with others on a personal or commercial basis in the same way as anyone else, including if they want to rent particular locations or hire persons to provide services for fair market value. The bill's immunity provision means that they will not be held criminally liable for providing sexual services independently and co-operatively, including by pooling resources to pay for services that are excepted by the material benefit offence.

Acknowledging that these are live issues before the court, I would close my remarks there.

February 8th, 2022 / 4:15 p.m.
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Nathalie Levman Senior Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section, Department of Justice

I would like to make a few comments on the data that we have on the sex trade. It comes from a range of different sources, including social sciences, criminal justice statistics, and of course jurisprudence interpreting relevant offences. The available social science evidence in Canada and internationally tells us about the groups that it studies. For example, Professor Benoit of the University of Victoria and Professor Bruckert of the University of Ottawa have studied practising sex workers in particular locations.

Their research that postdates Bill C-36 concludes that the purchasing offence makes screening clients and negotiating safe transactions more difficult, and that the material benefit and procuring offences prevent sex workers from working together co-operatively and assisting each other. I would note though that the scope of the material benefit and procuring offences is currently before the courts, including the Ontario Court of Appeal in the N.S. matter, and that courts have made inconsistent findings on whether these offences criminalize sex worker co-operatives or sex workers assisting each other.

The parliamentary record for Bill C-36 indicates that Parliament's intention wasn't to criminalize these measures. Obviously we have to wait now to hear about how the appellate courts interpret these offences, which of course has to be done prior to assessing them for charter compliance. The studies I've referred to—

February 8th, 2022 / 4:15 p.m.
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Conservative

Rob Moore Conservative Fundy Royal, NB

Thank you, Ms. Levman and Ms. Morency. It's great to see both of you again. I take it from your testimony about the disproportionate impact that those charged with purchase and profiting post Bill C-36 are men and the victims are disproportionately women.

You took us through how Bill C-36 was a response from Parliament to the Bedford decision. Can you expand a bit more on any information you have through the department on the effectiveness of Bill C-36? I know that's always an interesting point, when we see government having to respond to a court decision. Bill C-36 was that response. Can you expand a bit on the effectiveness of this bill when it comes to going after those who are profiting from the sale of others' sexual services?

February 8th, 2022 / 4:10 p.m.
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Carole Morency Director General and Senior General Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section, Policy Sector, Department of Justice

Thank you, Mr. Chair, for the opportunity to be here today to speak to former Bill C-36, as well as to what we know about the social context to which it applies and its impact.

Available data in Canada and around the world identifies that the majority of people who provide sexual services are women and girls; the vast majority of those who purchase sexual services are men, and the majority of profiteers and procurers are also men. Unfortunately, there's limited data on the involvement of LGBTQ2 individuals.

The 2006 report of the justice committee's subcommittee on solicitation laws indicated that about 75% to 80% of persons engaged in the sex trade are female, and about 20% are men or gender-diverse individuals. More recent data from research undertaken by Dr. Benoit of the University of Victoria and Dr. Bruckert of the University of Ottawa are consistent with what the subcommittee reported in 2006.

The reasons that people may provide sexual services are diverse. Their involvement in the sex trade is influenced by a variety of socio-economic factors, including poverty, youth and lack of education. While some involved in the sex trade are independent in the sense that they are sufficiently empowered to control how, when and where they provide sexual services, many others are not.

In response to the Supreme Court of Canada's 2013 Bedford decision, Parliament enacted former Bill C-36, which came into force on December 6, 2014. This bill brought into force a version of the Nordic model, first implemented in Sweden in 1999.

The preamble to former Bill C-36 identified its objectives as including protecting human dignity and equality and preventing exploitation and violence. Consistent with other Nordic approaches, the bill sought to achieve these goals by targeting the demand for sexual services and those who capitalize on that demand. Specifically, the bill created new offences prohibiting purchasing and advertising sexual services as well as receiving a material benefit from others' sexual services and procuring others to provide sexual services. The bill also immunized those who provide sexual services from criminal liability for the role they play in the now illegal transaction for sexual services. These offences also continue to criminalize purchasing sexual services from minors and involving minors in the sex trade.

The parliamentary record indicates that the exceptions to the profiting offence—the material benefit offence—are intended to ensure that those who provide sexual services aren't prevented from hiring bodyguards and others who may enhance safety. The immunities are intended to ensure that individuals are not prevented from selling their own sexual services independently or co-operatively, including from fixed locations.

A June 2021 Statistics Canada Juristat entitled “Crimes related to the sex trade: Before and after legislative changes in Canada” indicates that since the enactment of Bill C-36, those who are convicted or charged with a purchasing offence are almost invariably men; profiteers and procurers are predominantly men, and victims are predominantly female. Both the Criminal Code and Statistics Canada refer to persons who are subjected to offences as victims.

In the six years prior to the 2014 enactment of Bill C-36, 43% of those accused of sex trade-related offences were women. In the five years after the change in legislation, 93% of individuals accused in all sex trade-related incidents were men, and 94% of victims in incidents where a sex trade-related offence was reported were female.

Relevant case law indicates that the material benefit, procuring and advertising offences have been used in cases involving complainants who are predominantly female, under 18, or young adults and vulnerable—for example, due to unstable housing or addictions. Those vulnerabilities are often exploited by procurers or profiteers, who may exercise influence over them in a variety of ways, including by getting them to agree to provide commercial sexual services through psychological manipulation.

Lower court decisions in the context of prosecutions have come to conflicting results on the constitutionality of the material benefit, procuring and advertising offences as they apply to the adult sex trade. The constitutionality of all the offences enacted by former Bill C-36 is currently before Ontario courts in the context of a civil application.

Justice Canada also supports initiatives designed to assist those who have been harmed in the sex trade.

I will conclude here. I look forward to attempting to answer any questions the committee may have.

Thank you.

June 22nd, 2021 / 11:40 a.m.
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Bridget Perrier Co-Founder and First Nations Educator, Sextrade101

Aaniin.

First I'd like to acknowledge that I am standing here on the traditional territory of the Mississaugas of the New Credit, who fall under the Two Row Wampum Treaty.

I represent Sextrade101 and the many Anishinabe women and girls who are enslaved in prostitution and/or trafficked.

My name is Wasayakwe. My English name is Bridget Perrier. I was born in Thunder Bay, Ontario, and put up for adoption. I was adopted by a good family who tried to raise me the best way possible, but as I got older the effects of colonialism, intergenerational trauma and child sexual abuse made me a perfect candidate for prostitution.

I was lured and debased into prostitution at the age of 12 from a child welfare-run group home. I remained enslaved for 10 years in prostitution. I was sold to men who felt privileged to steal my innocence and invade my body. I was paraded like cattle in front of men who were able to purchase me, and the acts that I did were something no little girl should ever have to endure here in Canada, the land of the free.

Because of the men, I cannot have a child normally, because of trauma to my cervix. Still to this day I have nightmares, and sometimes I sleep with the lights on. My trauma is deep, and sometimes I feel as though I'm frozen—or even worse, I feel damaged and not worthy.

I was traded in legal establishments, street corners and strip clubs. I even had a few trips across the Great Lakes servicing ship men at the age of 13. The scariest thing that happened to me was, at 14 years of age, being held captive for a period of 43 hours and raped and tortured repeatedly by a sexual predator who preyed on exploited girls.

My exploiters made a lot of money and tried to break me, but I fought for my life. My first pimp was a woman who owned a legal brothel, where I was groomed to say that I was her niece or her daughter's friend, if the police ever asked. My second pimp was introduced to me when I was in Toronto. I was a prostitute for money. He was supposed to be a bodyguard, but that turned out to be one big lie. Both are out there still, doing the same thing to more little girls somewhere here in Canada.

After many years, I was able to exit prostitution and rebuild my life, and with that, my education became a tool. I was recognized for my tenacity and my strength, and I am now able to be an asset to my community and my people. I am a mother, grandmother, activist and warrior woman. Now my experiences may be sacrificial at times, but I am doing them for Canada's Anishinabe women and girls who are being bought and sold, who have disappeared or been murdered.

We must look at who is doing this. It is the men.

I have a letter. The birth mom of my oldest daughter was murdered by Robert Pickton, and my daughter asked me to read this to you.

Dear Senate,

My name is Angel Wolfe. My birth mom's name is Brenda Wolfe. My mom was murdered by Robert Pickton.

Her murder was one of the first six that he was charged with. I was six years old when she was murdered and nine years old when her jaw bone was found in a pig trough. I am one of the 98 orphans who were left behind because of that monster.

I do blame the Vancouver Police Department and the RCMP. I believe that Bills such as [PCEPA] will save vulnerable women like my mom. I'm sickened that my mom's death has been used to legitimize such indignity and sadness.

I'm also sickened by the term “the Pickton bill”. It's insulting and a slap in the face to the 98 orphans, and the organizations and the prosex work lobby movement should be really ashamed for speaking on behalf of the families who lost their loved ones.

I blame prostitution, addiction & mental Illness for my mother's death, and on behalf of the 98 orphans, we do not want our mothers' deaths to be the reason prostitution is legitimized.

I will make it my mission in life to carry her story and educate people about addictions, prostitution and the murdered and the missing.

Sincerely, Angel Wolfe

PCEPA will protect my daughters and granddaughters and other young native girls from predator sex buyers who have the nerve to solicit in public. Just last week, I was in Thunder Bay where buying vulnerable women is not on the agenda of their police department or MAG or any other organization.

If prostitution were such a healthy path, then why are the sex buyers not telling their wives, girlfriends and families that they use or have used sexual services from prostitutes?

Sextrade101 believes that prostitution is not a choice, but it's lack of choice that keeps women and girls enslaved. We believe that everybody should be shown a viable way out of the sex trade and not be encouraged to stay in it. We believe in helping people understand the full price of life in prostitution before they become involved and in helping women get out alive with their minds, bodies, and spirits intact. We have all been collectively afraid, raped, beaten, sold, disregarded. Most of us were also children who were forgotten, neglected, abused, used, led astray, abandoned and not protected.

Sextrade101 members and advocates are current and former prostituted women. We have a huge concern with the criminalization of prostituted women and girls. We have seen that diversion programs for prostituted women and girls are not the only the solution for everyone. We also have seen that a lot of money has gone out for support services, but we're still in this kind of silo.

Some 85% of Sextrade101 advocates and members have experienced pimp violence. This is pretty far from the picture painted by the Supreme Court of Canada, which is that pimps are nice guys. These pimps and sex buyers are the problem. They're the ones who abuse and in some cases kill.

I supported my daughter throughout the missing women inquiry, and the outcome was this: Our mothers, sisters, and daughters are not born to be used and sold for men's sexual needs. We are not commodities.

Also, we want to talk about linguistics. There's nothing in the native language, in indigenous languages, that describes selling sex, so if it's not in our language, it's not for our women.

I applaud former minister MacKay for the creation of Bill C‑36, because he recognized the inherent dangers and abuses for those who are prostituted. That bill was a victory for survivors and those who are stuck in a vicious cycle of indignity and pain.

We need to look at the numbers, which show that 52% of human trafficking victims are native and that the average age of exploitation for a native girl is 12 years of age. Ninety-eight per cent of the women that Sextrade101 has worked with have said that they have wanted out at some point.

As a sex trade survivor, I thank you so much for giving me the honour of speaking on behalf of the survivors in Sextrade101 and all the Anishinabe survivors across Canada, whether they are still in or have exited.

What we're seeing now is the increase of girls using social media as a tool for their exploitation, only as sugar babies, as Trisha pointed out, there is now a niche for native girls. When I was in the game, we never said we were native, because we knew if we said we were native, we would be in trouble. We would be in trouble by being assaulted or whatever, so we hid our identities.

Just last week I had a young woman from northern Ontario sleeping on my couch because the treatment centre that we paid $20,000 for to get private drug and alcohol treatment took one look at her and said she wasn't fit for their program. We had nowhere to send her, and at that moment, after 15 years of injecting drugs, she just wanted.... She was done. We had to think outside the box and figure out something radically fast.

I've seen a lot of money going into this, and not a lot of action. We don't have a safe house for indigenous women here in Ontario. We have a lot of religious-run safe houses, and I'm sorry, it's not a fit for my girls, my indigenous girls. I always get emails. Every week I get this “Hi, Bridget, we feel that this survivor fits your criteria.” Why? It's because she's indigenous and she's opened her mouth and said what she feels is best for her.

I don't know where to put them. I don't know where to put them, and I'm putting my children at risk by having them in my home, but I can't send them anywhere else, so we have this girl right now who has had 15 hard-core years on the street. She survived an attempted murder. I can tell her story and sit here and say, “Holy cow, she's doing good.” We have her in a bush camp and she's off drugs, and that's a big accomplishment. I told her that in 35 days your brain will retrain itself.

We're in crisis. I was in Thunder Bay, and they're buying women left, right and centre. The Thunder Bay police don't want to be burdened with the issue of exploitation, and they don't even want to admit that there's human trafficking going on. The pretty native girls are being farmed to southern Ontario and trafficked along the Golden Horseshoe.

What I'm seeing now, and Trisha is saying this, is that we're burying our daughters. I'm seeing girls that I was out there in the trenches with, and now it's daughters. It's intergenerational. If we don't help them figure out their potential, we're creating room for the new generation. It's happening. I'm now seeing grandma, mom and grandchild. Let's add fuel with a pandemic and now an opioid crisis, and we have the perfect brewing pot for exploitation.

When a prostituted indigenous woman is murdered, we see what happens. It's the Cindy Gladues and everything.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that we're in crisis here, and especially in northern Ontario. I'm only in northern Ontario for one week out of the month. I go to Thunder Bay. That's my job. Nobody knows where to go, and the people who are providing frontline help are putting themselves in harm's way to help women exit. If we just had a place to send them, like a one-stop shop, it would be so much easier.

What we're trying to do at Sextrade101 is mentor them. We don't have core funding like that. We have to get funding through another organization, but to this day, our recidivism rate back into prostitution is only at 4%. Obviously we're doing something right.

With that, I'll say meegwetch, and I'm up for questions.

Thank you.

June 15th, 2021 / 1 p.m.
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Executive Director, Ma Mawi Wi Chi Itata Centre Inc.

Diane Redsky

Okay, good. We were having technical difficulties earlier.

[Witness spoke in Ojibwe]

[English]

My spirit name is Love Eagle and I'm from the Caribou Clan. I acknowledge the treaty territory that I have the privilege of living and working on: Treaty 1 in the homeland of the Métis Nation. I also acknowledge the traditional territory of my ancestors, Treaty 3, Shoal Lake 40 First Nation, which also provides the water to the city of Winnipeg.

Thank you for the opportunity to be here. I apologize for the technical difficulties and not being able to participate in the whole session, but I'm really happy to see some of the leaders working on this issue with Hilda and with Fay here. I want to acknowledge our survivor as well, who is bringing a really important voice to this really vital issue.

I'm hoping that you have learned through.... It appears that you've had a few meetings on this particular issue with a number of people who have been informing this group. I'm glad that you're getting a lot of different perspectives that are building on why this is the most extreme form of violence against indigenous women and girls, how indigenous women and girls and two-spirited LGBTQQIA are also uniquely targeted for the purposes of sex trafficking in our country, and why it is critically important to have unique resources that are available and accessible that are indigenous-led and trauma-informed and that honour harm reduction. I hope those are some key messages that you have picked up on.

The work that I have been working on, really, on this issue for over 30 years now has been to address and find solutions—to problem solve—on how to end the sex trafficking of, particularly, indigenous women and girls. My career has been focused a lot on that, including leading the National Task Force on Sex Trafficking of Women and Girls in Canada.

The organization that I work for is called the Ma Mawi Wi Chi Itata Centre. It is located in Winnipeg, Manitoba, Treat 1 territory. We currently operate a rural healing lodge. It is and continues to be the only rural healing lodge in Canada for child victims of sex trafficking. This is a very unique resource that is under the portfolio of the provincial strategy called Tracia's Trust to end sexual exploitation and sex trafficking in our country. It's a provincially funded rural healing lodge.

I want to just give you some insight into that rural healing lodge and our experiences of operating a rural healing lodge. These are for girls and transgender teens between 13 and 17 years of age. These are some of the things that we have heard from girls. Again, these are minor children who are involved in the child protection system because they are girls in need of protection, and they need the support to be able to begin their healing journey.

Here are some of the key points that they have shared with us over the years of operating Hands of Mother Earth, the rural healing lodge: Their sexual exploitation started young, as young as nine. They are groomed and lured online and in person. Girls from northern first nations are particularly at risk, in that a lot of it is online, and sometimes other girls are manipulated and forced to go into northern first nations communities to also do recruitment and luring and bring girls back into Winnipeg or larger urban centres.

The control by the trafficker can take on many forms. He can pose as a boyfriend or a drug dealer, an older man supplying them with drugs or a place to stay. He can pose as an uncle or a father figure, even “daddy” in some cases, so how traffickers are targeting indigenous women and girls is very relationship-based. They are coerced to perform sex acts as many as six to 10 times a day, continuously, seven days a week, and hand over their money.

They're often on some really harmful drugs as well—for coping, as well as what is given to them—such as meth, heroin, crack and those types of drugs that can really impact their ability to give proper consent to anything. Meth is continuing to be a huge factor in controlling girls. A girl is more profitable to a trafficker than an adult woman, but the trauma-bond component to the trafficker is making it very hard to intervene. The target is primarily girls who are in child and family services care. Depending on where they are across the country, sometimes that place is more dangerous than others, such as Ontario and Saskatchewan, where the CFS age of majority caps out at 16. There's that period between 15 and 18 where there really aren't any adults who are actively responsible for their care and protection, which leaves them very vulnerable to traffickers.

We know that many men are buying girls to sexually abuse them—and that is the correct language to use. It's pretty diverse as well, so if we're looking for who the typical abusers and offenders are, it's men of all ages, from different cultural backgrounds and socio-economic situations.

What is also important about what we've heard from our young residents is that this is a long journey on their healing. Their healing journey will take forever, and that's not meant to be a bad thing, because with proper supports, indigenous-led supports and opportunities to continue to heal, this journey is a really important investment in their long-term healing journey. It does take a lifetime to heal from the most extreme form of violence against women and girls, so having that safe place to start the healing journey is critically important.

I have some recommendations for this committee. Within the federal national action plan to combat human trafficking, I'd really like to see an emphasis on it being indigenous-led, and then having an indigenous stream that is really focused on making those strategic investments across the country. We have to outsmart what is already out there.

I would agree on how critically important data collection is, because there is no common data collection, so we don't have an accurate number of what's happening across the country. Women and girls are presenting themselves in shelters and they're documented as cases of domestic violence instead of sex trafficking, so there's a lot of complexity around data collection, but there still is a really important opportunity for this across the country.

We really need to have and develop a victim service strategy that is directed to their life-long healing, and not contingent on their being involved in the court system. Many of our girls from the Hands of Our Mother Earth Rural Healing Lodge have participated in the court system. It has been just a terrible experience from beginning to end, so we really need a victim centre, a victim service strategy, to ensure that we are really giving a strong level of support to young girls, and anybody, any victim, who is impacted by sex trafficking while they're going through the court system. Just in one case, where there were multiple victims, we had several girls who participated in that court system who made several suicide attempts, some of which succeeded. We really need to ensure that we're creating that strong safety net as they go through the court system.

It is critically important—as it relates to what we have now overall and which could at least help and not make anything worse—not to repeal Bill C-36. This is the Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons Act. It is a really critical piece of legislation not only for the community, but for policing agencies to be able to intervene at times, so that they have a full venue or a number of tools they can use to intervene between a trafficker and those they are abusing and sexually exploiting.

I'm going to say two more things. Advocates like me and many others really want, need and encourage the investment in the voices of survivors. It is critically important because that is where the answers are. That is where we need to support survivor leadership. We need to be investing in those survivor-led voices and in those survivor-led organizations because those are where the strategies and the solutions lie. There's a critical need to make investments into survivor voices and particularly indigenous-led voices.

The last thing I'll say is that any form of buying sex from women and girls is violence against women—bottom line. We need to stop normalizing this form of violence and saying it's okay because there's money involved.

That is what I'd like to bring to this committee. Thank you again for the opportunity to be here.

Financial Statement of Minister of FinanceThe BudgetGovernment Orders

April 26th, 2021 / 5:25 p.m.
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NDP

Randall Garrison NDP Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC

Mr. Speaker, last Thursday, Justice Phillip Sutherland of the Ontario Superior Court found once again that provisions criminalizing sex work are unconstitutional. In Parliament, there was supposed to be a review of the former Bill C-36, but it was never started.

Since the vast majority of sex workers in Canada are women, and since these provisions make it unsafe to work as a sex worker, when will the government move to decriminalize sex work, as has now been twice required by the Supreme Court of Canada?

Sex WorkersPetitionsRoutine Proceedings

April 21st, 2021 / 3:20 p.m.
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NDP

Randall Garrison NDP Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC

Mr. Speaker, I was pleased to sponsor petition e-3132, and I am even more pleased to present it today as it received more than 9,500 signatures in very short order.

The petitioners call for the full decriminalization of consensual sex work in Canada. They note that criminalizing sex work was found to be a violation of the right to security of person by the Supreme Court in the Bedford decision of 2013. They point out that instead of decriminalizing sex work, Bill C-36 simply found new ways to make sex work illegal, and the result has been to further endanger sex workers.

In the absence of the legislative review of Bill C-36 that was supposed to take place, the petitioners ask that instead of forcing sex workers to go back to court to protect their rights, the House simply repeal Bill C-36.

April 12th, 2021 / 11:25 a.m.
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Liberal

Francesco Sorbara Liberal Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON

Thank you.

I wish to thank you as ministers and thank the Treasury Board Secretariat under Minister Duclos. In the 2021 main estimates, there was a substantial increase in funding, $6.3 million, for the national strategy to combat human trafficking, $4.4 million for the national cybersecurity strategy and $4.2 million for protecting children from sexual exploitation online. Budget 2019, I would say, announced funding of $4.4 million in 2019-20 and $8.7 million in 2021. It's great to see that.

I wish to pivot in a certain way. I've learned a lot in this study about platforms, and a lot of legalese language and information. I do agree that we have a robust system in place. I think it's section 162, in that realm, in those numbers, for child exploitation, but I do wish to flag something because I think it's important this morning.

I was able to read some papers, and we've received a lot of literature. A lot of briefs have been sent to us, more so than for almost any other study I've seen. One is from the Centre for Gender and Sexual Health Equity. It is called “Impacts of criminalization and punitive regulation of online sex work and pornography: the need for sex workers' voices”. Another one was an article written by a gentleman by the name of Justin Ling in Maclean's, “Governments have failed Canada's sex workers—and they're running out of patience”.

It all goes back to Bill C-36, which was brought in by the Conservatives. Our role as legislators and also in the Bedford case, which I've been reading up on, is to protect all Canadians, protect children from being exploited and allow Canadians to work safely in any sort of environment.

I've looked at other countries—New Zealand and Germany—and it seems to me that we need to make sure we don't drive work underground. Sex workers' voices need to be listened to, and we need to ensure that we are not harming Canadians rather than helping Canadians.

I wish to put to you a broad type of question, Minister Lametti, in terms of how sex work is regulated in Canada.

Status of WomenCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

February 16th, 2021 / 10:10 a.m.
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Conservative

Jag Sahota Conservative Calgary Skyview, AB

moved:

That the second report of the Standing Committee on Status of Women presented on Thursday, February 4, 2021, be concurred in.

Mr. Speaker, I will be splitting my time with the member for Peace River—Westlock.

I am pleased to rise today to voice my support for declaring February 22 as national human trafficking awareness day. Human trafficking is the recruitment, transportation, harbouring and/or exercising control, discretion or influence over the movement of a person in order to exploit that person, typically through sexual exploitation or forced labour. It is often described as a modern form of slavery.

Human trafficking is not something Canadians think of often, if at all. When we do, we often think that this horrendous and dehumanizing crime is being committed elsewhere in the world: somewhere that is less fortunate and that lacks effective law enforcement. However, as the Conservative shadow minister for Women and Gender Equality, I have learned from several of my colleagues, including the member for Peace River—Westlock, and from stakeholders and organizations across the country just how vast the human trafficking network is in Canada.

Statistics Canada's 2018 report on human trafficking indicated that 90% of human trafficking in Canada was reported in census metropolitan areas, and that 97% of victims are women and girls with 74% of them being under the age of 25. Of that 74%, 28% were under the age of 18. These numbers are absolutely horrifying and break my heart. These are not just numbers. These numbers represent somebody's daughter, son, grandson, granddaughter, niece or nephew. No one underage, particularly those who are trafficked, has the ability to consent to sexual acts or exploitation.

When I look at my party's record on this issue, I am grateful that we have taken this issue seriously and made significant overhauls to our Criminal Code to address this very serious crime. The member for Haldimand—Norfolk, during her tenure as the minister for Citizenship and Immigration and as minister for Human Resources and Skills Development Canada, introduced several changes to the temporary foreign worker program and the immigration act to prevent situations where temporary workers in Canada, including strippers, might be abused, exploited or possibly become victims of human trafficking.

In 2010 and 2012, former member of Parliament Joy Smith introduced and passed two private member's bills: Bill C-268 , minimum sentence for offences involving trafficking of persons under the age of eighteen years, and Bill C-310, trafficking in persons. Bill C-268 amended the Criminal Code and set mandatory minimums for those who were convicted of trafficking anyone under the age of 18, while Bill C-310 addressed a major loophole in our Criminal Code and made sure that Canadians or permanent residents who went abroad for the purpose of exploiting or trafficking foreign individuals would be brought back to Canada for prosecution.

In 2012, our Conservative government launched a four-year national action plan to combat human trafficking. This included Canada's first integrated law enforcement team dedicated to combatting human trafficking, and increased frontline training to identify and respond to human trafficking, enhanced prevention in vulnerable communities, provided more supports for victims of this crime, both those who are Canadians and foreigners, and strengthened our coordination with domestic and international partners in combatting human trafficking.

Our Conservative government also recognized that the majority of people who are trafficked are trafficked for the purpose of sexual exploitation. This is why, when our government had to revisit Canada's law regarding prostitution and pass Bill C-36, the Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons Act, we put a heavy focus on protecting these victims.

Until this law was passed, those forced into the sex trade were often treated as criminals by the law instead of being treated as the victims. This law was a made-in-Canada approach recognizing that those who sell sexual services are often victims of human trafficking and often underage. We recognized those people as victims of a more heinous crime, and instead of further victimizing the victim, our Conservative government focused on the pimps and the johns. This included those convicted of procuring, recruiting or harbouring another person for the purpose of prostitution, with a maximum penalty of 14 years in prison. If the victim was a child, the penalty carried a mandatory minimum sentence of five years.

We have done a lot to address human trafficking in Canada and stand up for the vulnerable in our society. However, there is still much more work that needs to be done.

Despite all of our hard work as parliamentarians, human trafficking is still a growing crime in Canada and remains very much below the public radar. At the Standing Committee on the Status of Women, one of the facts we have constantly heard from witnesses is the importance of raising awareness to help combat the prevalence of human trafficking. That is why I strongly support declaring a national awareness day. It would give us an opportunity to create an awareness campaign to educate Canadians that this crime happens and happens locally. It would show them the signs of someone who is being or is about to be trafficked and how to report that to the authorities.

The time is now to act on this very important issue. It has been over 16 years since Canada added human trafficking offences to the Criminal Code and 14 years since the House unanimously adopted a motion to condemn all forms of human trafficking and slavery.

The motion also calls for making February 22 the day to be declared national human trafficking awareness day. I believe this is the best and most practical day to use. The Provinces of Ontario and Alberta already use February 22 as the day to bring awareness provincially. Also, the government's own special adviser for combatting human trafficking has said that they would like to see this day declared as the national human trafficking awareness day.

There are several motions from all parties on the Order Paper: Motion No. 45 from the Conservative member for Peace River—Westlock, seconded by the Bloc member for Shefford; Motion No. 59 from the NDP member for Edmonton Strathcona, seconded by the Green member for Nanaimo—Ladysmith; and Motion No. 57 from the Liberal member for Scarborough—Guildwood, seconded by the Green member for Nanaimo—Ladysmith. All of their motions call for the House to condemn all forms of human trafficking and slavery, promote awareness, take steps toward combatting human trafficking and declare February 22 as national human trafficking awareness day.

Human trafficking is one of the most lucrative and quickly growing crimes in Canada. I hope all members of the House will agree with me and join me in declaring February 22 as national human trafficking awareness day.

February 1st, 2021 / 4:50 p.m.
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Liberal

Joël Lightbound Liberal Louis-Hébert, QC

I want to thank both witnesses for their presentations and for their very important work.

The report clearly states that it was completely inappropriate to include the visit to a massage parlour in Mr. Gallese's strategy. The case management team made a mistake. There's even a disciplinary investigation under way.

I also gather from your comments that you want to see a broader policy change.

I would be curious to hear your comments on the impact of Bill C-36. In particular, the bill criminalized the purchase of sexual services. If my memory serves me correctly, the bill was passed six or seven years ago. How has the bill affected you?

October 29th, 2020 / 11:55 a.m.
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NDP

Randall Garrison NDP Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC

Thank you very much.

I want to return to the question of sex work. In doing so, I first want to acknowledge that there is a difference between human trafficking—which is prevalent in many industries, not just in sex work—and actual sex work.

My question to the minister, which he wasn't allowed to answer before, was about the mandated review of Bill C-36. I want to give him a chance to answer that briefly.

October 27th, 2020 / 12:35 p.m.
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NDP

Lindsay Mathyssen NDP London—Fanshawe, ON

That additional report to the committee is very welcome, of course.

Ms. Duffy, you mentioned the review of Bill C-36, which was supposed to happen in December 2019. Unfortunately, the government isn't moving as it's supposed to on that.

It's my understanding that the justice committee is really quite overwhelmed by a lot of legislation going through. One of the suggestions we had was to create a special committee to look specifically at the review of Bill C-36 and to insist that sex workers be participant ex-officio members of that committee. I was wondering how that would help going forward.

October 27th, 2020 / 12:30 p.m.
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Board Chair, Maggie's: The Toronto Sex Workers Action Project

Jenny Duffy

Certainly decriminalization is the first step, but it's still not sufficient, as it won't prevent all communities of sex workers from being profiled and over-policed. It would be a first step in reducing the stigmatization and the isolation of sex workers.

We would also like to see greater funding for community, peer-led organizations that are on the ground supporting their communities and that can relate, understand and offer appropriate referrals and services. These organizations are massively underfunded, even though they are doing incredible work.

I think more recognition from the government of how important this is through funding is really vital. I can't emphasize enough the need for decriminalization. The government has committed to do a review of Bill C-36, and there's yet to even be a committee to review it. We've been waiting, all the while submitting evidence of how harmful these laws are.

It's a little bit frustrating. We're continuing to say the same thing over and over again because it hasn't happened yet, and there hasn't been the political will for it. I think that's very sad.

We're here today talking about the impact of COVID on women, and sex workers who are afraid to file their taxes. It's such a simple thing that every other worker can do. So many sex workers have missed out on the emergency funding because they're afraid to submit their name and their profession to the government. That's so unacceptable, and decriminalization would be a massive shift to help prevent that from happening.

Opposition Motion—Instruction to the Standing Committee on Public Safety and National SecurityBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

February 4th, 2020 / 4:35 p.m.
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NDP

Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC

Madam Speaker, it is good that this will be looked into because it is important. It is also important for us to ask questions with respect to the sex trade and the risks to which many of the sex workers are subjected today.

As we know, the Conservative government brought in Bill C-36, and there were huge implications with respect to the safety of sex workers. Therefore, I would invite the member to comment on what the government should do to address the issue of safety for sex workers.

Opposition Motion — Instruction to the Standing Committee on Public Safety and National SecurityBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

February 4th, 2020 / 1:10 p.m.
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Conservative

Arnold Viersen Conservative Peace River—Westlock, AB

Mr. Speaker, one of the first things is that the law would be obeyed. The first lines about granting someone parole are that they will obey the law if they are out on parole.

There was one comment on Facebook about the parole officer being this guy's wingman. That is precisely where we do not want to end up. Bill C-36 made it clear that sex is not to be bought in Canada; therefore, we should have our Parole Board at least enforce the law.

Opposition Motion — Instruction to the Standing Committee on Public Safety and National SecurityBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

February 4th, 2020 / 1 p.m.
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NDP

Laurel Collins NDP Victoria, BC

Mr. Speaker, I ask the hon. member to consider listening to the voices of sex workers. Sex workers are saying that sex work is work.

I also ask the hon. member about the Harper government's decision to implement Bill C-36, which criminalized the establishments that sex workers go to in order to feel safe and criminalized their ability to hire security. Does the member acknowledge that this is a factor in this death and many others?

Opposition Motion — Instruction to the Standing Committee on Public Safety and National SecurityBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

February 4th, 2020 / 12:50 p.m.
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Conservative

Arnold Viersen Conservative Peace River—Westlock, AB

Mr. Speaker, I would like to inform you that I will be sharing my time with the member for South Surrey—White Rock.

It is with heavy hearts that we come here to speak today. At the beginning of January, Marylène Levesque was an innocent young woman alive in Canada. A few weeks later, on January 22, Marylène was brutally murdered by a convicted murderer out on parole.

To say that this should never have happened is a significant understatement. Marylène should be alive today. She should never have met with Eustachio Gallese. Her death is tragic and utterly senseless. It is one more example of the preventable violence that women and girls face across Canada by men who view them as nothing more than objects and commodities to be bought and sold. Canadians are outraged. They have every right to be. They want answers.

The public safety minister told the House that a full investigation would take place and would be conducted by the commissioner of the Correctional Service of Canada and the chair of the Parole Board of Canada. It is an investigation that will try to answer why this senseless murder took place, and how to prevent others.

We already know the Parole Board of Canada allowed a man with a history of domestic violence against women out on day parole. He had already brutally murdered his own wife in 2004. Prior to that, he committed violence against an earlier partner in 1997. However, despite his clear history of repeated violence, the Parole Board and Gallese's parole officer made the shameful decision to sanction more violence by condoning and encouraging his perceived right to buy sex, thus signing the death warrant of Marylène. This is appalling. They should not have encouraged him to break the law.

In 2014, Parliament expressed grave concerns about the exploitation and violence inherent in prostitution through Bill C-36. Through this bill, the buying of sex was made illegal because of the harm and violence created by the demand for prostitution.

The goal of Parliament was to protect human dignity and the equality of all Canadians by discouraging prostitution, which has a disproportionate impact on women and children, particularly indigenous women and girls. The bill did not seek to reduce the harm of prostitution, but to eliminate prostitution altogether because of the violence and exploitation inherent in it.

Prostitution creates an environment of violence and inequality for women and girls, perpetuates sexual commodification and turns the most vulnerable in our society into objects to be bought and sold. That is why Bill C-36 sought to eliminate the demand by prohibiting the purchase of sex.

Countries around the world that have legalized prostitution have seen the violence against, and the murder of, those who work in prostitution. They have seen sex trafficking increase, especially among youth. This has happened in Germany, New Zealand and the Netherlands. The legitimization of prostitution normalizes attitudes of violence, misogyny and the objectification of women and girls.

Men do not have the right to buy sex, or to buy women and girls for pleasure. However, in this country, I dare say in this chamber, there are those who believe that prostitution should be legalized and that men should be entitled to buy sex and treat women and girls as commodities.

This line of thinking is heinous. It is evil, and a brazen attack on equality and the safety of all women and girls in Canada. This insidious rationale was on full display in the Parole Board's last written decision with respect to Gallese where it states, although he is single and cannot say whether he is ready to enter into a serious relationship with a woman:

...you are able to efficiently evaluate your needs and expectations towards women.... During the hearing, your parole officer underlined a strategy that was developed with the goals that would allow you to meet women in order to meet your sexual needs.

In other words, while the Parole Board acknowledged that intimate relationships with some women were inappropriate as they would be unsafe, it explicitly acknowledged his sexual needs and affirmed his perceived right to buy sex from those trapped in prostitution. In their minds, the Parole Board members were protecting some women that they deemed more valuable, while sending a convicted murderer to prey upon those who were the most disadvantaged and vulnerable.

As this tragic case demonstrates, it perpetuates the idea that there should be a class of women who are able to be purchased for sex by men who believe they have to the right to objectify and harm those who are for sale. That is what we are talking about with this case today.

The Liberal-appointed Parole Board members thought so little of those in prostitution that they were willing to knowingly put these women's lives in grave danger, women like Marylène. How else can we explain their words and actions, other than that they believed buying sex should be legal and therefore condoned Gallese's perceived right to sex as if it was legal? In their minds, Gallese's perceived right to buy sex was more important than the law.

If Parole Board members had followed the law, they would not have granted Gallese's parole for this purpose. If they had followed the law, they would have recognized the exploitation and violence inherent in prostitution instead of supporting Gallese's sexual needs. However, the Parole Board's attitudes toward women and prostitution reflect what we have seen from the Liberal government over the past few years: a clear pattern of always putting the rights of criminals ahead of the rights of victims and those at risk.

We know indigenous women and girls are the most represented victim group in sex trafficking and prostitution in Canada. They make up only 4% of Canada's population, yet make up more than 50% of the victims in Canada.

Last year the government reduced some of the human trafficking offences to summary offences, which will significantly increase the likelihood that a human trafficking offence against indigenous women will proceed as a summary conviction offence, further denying them justice. The government also eliminated the consecutive sentences for human trafficking that were adopted under the previous government. The loss of consecutive sentencing leaves victims with a continued reluctance to come forward and report a crime due to their immense fear and the psychological control that traffickers have over their victims.

In the days following this horrific case of injustice, many survivors of sex trafficking and prostitution spoke out. They are outraged and want justice for Marylène and others. I want to share with this House a few of these voices.

Trisha Baptie of B.C., a survivor of sex trafficking, stated:

[In my 15 years of involvement in the sex industry] it was never the laws that beat and raped and killed me and my friends, it was men. It was never the location we were in that was unsafe, it was the men we were in that location with who made it unsafe.

Baptie further stated that our laws must always focus on ending the demand for paid sex.

Casandra Diamond, a survivor of sex trafficking in massage parlours in Toronto, said the following:

...commodifying a woman's body is dangerous, always. It sends a message that buying someone is acceptable, enshrining the power imbalance where people from average to above-average socioeconomic status purchase other humans, mainly women and girls who have below-average socioeconomic status and power.

Timea Nagy, a survivor who was trafficked from Hungary to Canada and sold in legal strip clubs and massage parlours in the GTA, stated:

To think and promote sex work as “normal work” must come to an end. The Liberal government is completely blinded and refuses to hear our side of the story. How many more deaths will it take them to listen? 10? 20? 30?

I strongly condemn the Parole Board of Canada's decision to allow a convicted murderer to buy sex and I hope the government will also condemn this decision.

I also call on this government to stop allowing prostitution to be legitimized. Legitimizing prostitution and downplaying the seriousness of sex trafficking will lead to more violence against women and increased discrimination toward those most at risk in our country. Legitimizing prostitution creates two classes of people, those who can be commodified and sold and those who should not be.

There are some things in Canada that are just not for sale. For example, my vote is not for sale. Democracy is not for sale. People should never be for sale. Women and girls in Canada deserve better.

Criminal CodePrivate Members' Business

June 4th, 2019 / 5:50 p.m.
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Parkdale—High Park Ontario

Liberal

Arif Virani LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada and to the Minister of Democratic Institutions

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to join the second reading debate on Private Member's bill, Bill C-206, an act to amend the Criminal Code.

At the outset, I want to to acknowledge the laudable objective of the bill and thank the member from Yellowhead for giving us the opportunity to debate this important social issue this evening.

Bill C-206 amends the Criminal Code to specify that the physical, emotional, sexual or financial abuse of a person over the age of 65 or of a person 18 years of age or older who depends on others for their care because of a mental or physical disability is to be considered an aggravating circumstance for sentencing purposes.

The member for Yellowhead said that the bill seeks to give vulnerable seniors further protections to ensure that they can live safely and in dignity, while protecting them against exploitation.

The bill would fulfill that objective by imposing harsher sentences on offenders who abuse these vulnerable victims, whether financially, physically or psychologically.

I am in full agreement with the member for Yellowhead that we must do everything to address the physical, financial and emotional exploitation of our seniors and other vulnerable Canadians who depend on others for their care because of a disability.

I hear about this issue in my work here in Ottawa, in my work around the country and also in my riding of Parkdale—High Park. Constituents speak to me about the statistics, which are problematic. Those statistics show that seniors and Canadians with disabilities are at a higher risk of being victims of crimes.

For instance, while older Canadians have historically reported low victimization rates, the physical disabilities and cognitive impairments experienced by some seniors may increase their vulnerability and make them more prone to certain kinds of abuse, such as online financial crime, neglect, financial exploitation and family-related violence.

By 2036 the size of Canada's senior population will increase about twofold, and persons aged 65 and over will represent approximately one quarter of the Canadian population in total.

Given Canada's aging population, Statistics Canada notes that police-reported violence committed against seniors will continue to increase if it is left unaddressed.

According to police data, Canadian seniors were more likely to be the victim of family violence in 2017 than they were 10 years ago. In 2007, Statistics Canada reported that the overall rate of police-reported violence against seniors had increased by 20% between 1998 and 2005. From 2009 to 2017, the rate of police-reported family violence against seniors rose 7%.

In 2014, people with a disability were about twice as likely to be victims of a violent crime than people who did not have a disability, and women and men with cognitive disabilities or mental health-related disabilities reported violent victimization approximately four times more often than their counterparts who did not have a disability.

Elder abuse, senior isolation and the abuse of vulnerable persons are completely unacceptable. Our government is working hard to provide Canadian seniors with greater security and a better quality of life. That is what compelled us to appoint and name a Minister of Seniors to the federal cabinet.

We have also invested in the new horizons for seniors program, which, through budget 2019, will receive an additional $100 million over the next five years. One of the key initiatives of that program is to tackle elder abuse and fraud.

Several legislative amendments have been enacted by Parliament to address the problem of elder abuse. For instance, in 2011, the Standing Up for Victims of White Collar Crime Act enacted an aggravating factor to the fraud offence found at section 380.1 of the Criminal Code. This was referenced in the earlier part of tonight's debate.

This provision directs a judge to treat evidence that the offence had a significant impact on the victim, having regard to “their personal circumstances including their age, health and financial situation”, as an aggravating factor at sentencing.

In 2012, there was also legislation enacted called Protecting Canada's Seniors Act, which enacted a provision that directed courts to treat evidence that the offence had a significant impact on the victim, having regard to his or her age and other personal circumstances, including health and financial situation, as an aggravating factor at sentencing.

These two legislative amendments essentially codified the current sentencing practices. In other words, when these legislative amendments were proposed, the law already required the courts to consider all aggravating and mitigating circumstances related to the offence and the offender's degree of responsibility, including the effect of an offence on a particular victim under all circumstances. In a given case, this can obviously include the victim's age and their vulnerability.

In summary, by codifying the aggravating circumstances, parliamentarians clarified the sentencing law for all Canadians and sent a message to the courts that it is important to consider these aggravating circumstances in sentencing decisions.

The Criminal Code includes a broad range of offences that apply equally to protect all Canadians, including vulnerable and elderly Canadians, as well as specific offences that take into account the vulnerability of the victim. For instance, the offences of assault, assault with bodily harm and aggravated assault apply to protect everyone, regardless of age, health or gender. However, there are also specific offences that target the abuse of vulnerable persons, such as in 153.1 of the Criminal Code, which applies to the sexual exploitation of a person with a disability. The code also lists several aggravating factors that can apply in cases involving abuse of an elderly or vulnerable person who depends on others for care because of a mental or physical disability.

There are four aggravating factors: one, evidence and offences motivated by bias, prejudice or hate or based on, for instance, age or mental or physical disability; two, the fact that the offenders abuse their spouse or common-law partner; three, the fact that offenders abused a position of trust or authority in relation to the victim; and four, evidence that the offence had a significant impact on the victim having regard to their age or other personal circumstance, including their health or financial situation.

Based on my interpretation of the aggravating circumstance proposed in Bill C-206, I have to wonder if the amendment proposed in the bill could overlap with the circumstances already set out in the Criminal Code. I wonder if the amendment fixes any flaws in the law regarding the abuse of seniors and other vulnerable persons.

I look forward to hearing other members' thoughts about whether this conduct is already covered by the Criminal Code and how this amendment would affect the criminal justice system. For example, if we were to adopt an aggravating circumstance that is similar to the ones already in the Criminal Code, would there be an increase in the number of cases related to determining the scope of the new provision and how it differs from the aggravating circumstances set out in the Criminal Code?

Moreover, I wonder about the implications of setting a chronological age distinction of above 65 as the hard limit in the Criminal Code for assessing a person's vulnerability. Witnesses who testified before the House of Commons Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights as part of its study of former Bill C-36 emphasized that the impact of a crime on an elderly victim is not necessarily dependent on chronological age, but rather on the combined unique characteristics of that elderly victim.

This leads me to question whether an individual's vulnerability is not best assessed by weighing a combination of factors, such as mental and physical health, financial situation and degree of autonomy. I am sure members of this House can come up with examples of when age is not the best indicator of a person's level of vulnerability. For these reasons, I look forward to a thorough debate on these important policy questions.

During second reading debate of the former Bill C-36, the member for Pierrefonds—Dollard at the time said that if we focus only on legal measures, we will be missing a very important point. Non-legislative measures can also significantly help address the problem.

In total, I would underscore that the bill proposed by the member for Yellowhead targets a very important and laudable objective. I look forward to the important debate continuing on this issue and on the issue of combatting elder abuse.

September 25th, 2018 / 7:35 p.m.
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Julia Beazley Director, Public Policy, Evangelical Fellowship of Canada

Thank you, Mr. Chair and members of the committee, for the opportunity to participate in this study.

The Evangelical Fellowship of Canada is the national association of evangelical Christians in Canada. Our affiliates include 45 denominations, more than 65 ministry organizations and 35 post-secondary institutions. Established in 1964, EFC provides a national forum for Canada's four million evangelicals and a constructive voice for biblical principles in life and society.

Our approach to the issues we will address in Bill C-75 is based on biblical principles that teach respect for human life and dignity, care for the vulnerable, and freedom of religion, principles that are also reflected in Canadian law and policy.

Bill C-75 proposes a significant number of changes to the Criminal Code, including the hybridization of a number of Criminal Code offences. This would allow, as you know, some serious indictable offences to be treated as relatively minor summary offences at the discretion of the Crown. It's on this element of the bill that I have been asked to provide comments. Our concerns in this regard are limited to a few key areas.

Criminal laws give expression to the norms that undergird a society. They both express and reinforce the basic commitments that bind a society together. It is often said that the law is a teacher. Amendments to the Criminal Code can signal or imply a shift in our society's core principles or their interpretation, which is sometimes appropriate, but this also means we must carefully consider the implications of any changes we make.

The categorization of a criminal offence tends to indicate the seriousness of the conduct it addresses. Hybridization suggests that an offence can now be considered less of a violation of human dignity, less of a threat to society or social cohesion, and less harmful to the vulnerable among us. Respectfully, we submit that to hybridize some of the offences proposed in this bill would send the wrong message. We understand that one of the objectives of hybridization is to reduce delays in the criminal justice system, but to paraphrase what Mr. Geoff Cowper told this committee last week, our goal should be not to reduce delays but to deliver justice in a timely way that's responsive to the public interest, to the needs of the victim and to the community generally.

When Bill C-75 proposes a greater maximum penalty for repeated intimate partner violence—and I hear the concerns of my co-panellists about recidivism—this communicates that this is an offence the government considers to be very serious, that violence is unacceptable and is to be deterred with severe penalty. This is a good message.

Conversely, when the bill proposed to hybridize offences related to human trafficking, sexual exploitation, or the assault of religious officiants, it sends the message, whether intended or not, that these offences are of lesser concern. Bill C-75 proposes to hybridize subsection 176(1) of the Criminal Code, which deals with obstructing or violence to an officiating clergy. Obstructing or assaulting a religious official who is about to perform religious duties strikes directly at the heart of religious belief and practice. Religious officials are not merely acting as individuals when they're carrying out their religious duties; they are representatives of the broader community of faith.

Last year, more than 65 interfaith leaders wrote to the Minister of Justice expressing our deep concern with the repeal of the section 176 protections that were proposed in Bill C-51. We wrote, “The deliberate assault of a religious official outside a house of worship is a different kind of offence from other public disturbances, assaults, threats or incitement to hatred. An offence against a people at worship reverberates through the community and touches every member.”

Offences against religious officials and people at worship are unique in character, in significance and in motivation, and in a climate of increasing incidence of hate, specifically at and against places of worship, we believe it's essential to maintain the focused protection that section 176 offers religious leaders. We are grateful that this committee heard the concerns of religious Canadians and recommended that section 176 not be repealed but instead be revised to be more inclusive of all religious officials. We ask the committee, in keeping with that same understanding and responsiveness to the concerns of religious Canadians, to recommend that this offence not be hybridized in Bill C-75.

You heard compelling testimony last night of the realities of human trafficking and all forms of sexual exploitation, and the devastating impact of these crimes on their victims. These crimes constitute a grave violation of human rights, including the rights of women and children to live free from violence, and it's essential that the gravity of these offences be consistently reflected in our laws and policies. We know and have known for years that in Canada it is mainly Canadian women and girls who are trafficked, and they're being trafficked into the commercial sex trade.

Ninety-five per cent of all cases in Canada in which trafficking charges have been laid in the last 12 years were domestic and primarily involved sexual exploitation. StatsCan's latest report says that 95% of trafficking victims are female, 72% are under the age of 25 and one in four victims is under the age of 18.

We're pleased that this government is taking action on human trafficking and is consulting on the development of the new national action plan. We're also eagerly awaiting this committee's report out of its study on human trafficking.

We're disappointed that Bill C-75 proposes to hybridize certain offences related to human trafficking and sexual exploitation. These other initiatives demonstrate that this government rightly considers these crimes to be worthy of significant legislative and policy focus, but the proposed hybridization of related offences seems to send a conflicting message.

In particular, we note the bill's hybridization of the following:

The first is section 210 on keeping a common bawdy house. This provision allows law enforcement to address the ownership and operation of brothels, which are often loosely disguised as spas, holistic centres or massage parlours, in which individuals are frequently held, exploited or trafficked. The naming and continued inclusion in the Criminal Code of such a place is significant, because the existence and operation of these places can legitimize the hold, power and influence of a pimp, trafficker or exploiter over the exploited.

As I was preparing for this, I spoke with a friend and colleague who has first-hand experiential knowledge of how these facilities operate. She explained that pimps and traffickers use places like holistic centres and massage parlours with the full knowledge of the owner, and that placing their girls in a licensed facility legitimizes the pimp or trafficker as part of a business. Individuals who use these places to exploit do so with intention, forethought and planning.

The exploitation that occurs in these facilities is rampant. We need access points to these places, and we need to be careful that we don't limit or restrict the ability of law enforcement to monitor, to search and to prosecute where needed.

Rather than repealing this section, as some have called for, or hybridizing it, as this bill does, we suggest the committee consider clarifying the definition of “bawdy house” in the Criminal Code. The current definition is imprecise, and that imprecision actually cloaks the exploitation that concerns us. We would support a definition which makes it clear that the offence targets situations of sexual exploitation where individuals are held, kept or exploited in a place where someone else is in control of their movement, their activity and quite often their finances.

Next are subsection 279.02(1), on material benefit with trafficking, and subsection 279.03(1), on withholding or destroying documents. These offences as they relate to the trafficking of a person under the age of 18 remain indictable. Our laws rightfully extend particular protections to children who are uniquely vulnerable in a number of ways.

However, this bill would hybridize these same offences as they relate to adult victims. This is problematic because exploited adults are quite often just exploited children who happen to turn 18. In fact, often the only thing about their circumstances that has changed is that they are now 18 and the severity of the abuse they have suffered or continue to suffer does not lessen when they turn 18.

Victims who become adults in the eyes of the law may already feel a bit left behind, because the system offers them fewer supports and services and treats the crimes committed against them as less serious. I would argue that even in cases where the exploitation begins or occurs when the victim is an adult, we do not want to send the message that this conduct is less serious. Human trafficking and the criminal offences associated with it must be considered very serious and be dealt with accordingly. As such, we recommend that these offences not be hybridized.

Finally, we have subsection 286.2(1), on material benefit from sexual services. This provision is clearly aimed at and I suspect applied almost exclusively to individuals who are benefiting, as the law says, from the sale of someone else's sexual services. It is clear that what the current laws aim to do is prevent the exploitation of one individual by another.

This offence and others covered by the Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons Act should not be hybridized. This act established an incredibly important shift in how our country addresses prostitution. It refocused our laws on the buyers and those who profit from exploitation while decriminalizing those who are selling or being sold. We believe these laws are a critical tool in the fight against trafficking and sexual exploitation because they seek to curb the demand for paid sexual services, which is what fuels sex trafficking and funnels women into prostitution.

The act has a mandatory five-year review built in. We strongly recommend that the government keep the current prostitution laws in place as they are, and that when that five-year mark is reached it conduct a thorough review of the laws and their effectiveness in order to determine how they may be strengthened or improved, with the clear objective of eliminating sexual exploitation.

Thank you.

September 24th, 2018 / 8:25 p.m.
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Criminologist and Sociologist, President of Mouranie-Criminologie, As an Individual

Maria Mourani

Certainly.

As to the recommendations, let me repeat what victims and the police told me. Victims are waiting for Bill C-452 to come into force, which received royal assent in 2015. For three years, the government has refused to bring this law into force.

Having been a minister, Mr. Clement, you know that it takes more than a day for a ministerial order to be issued to bring a law into force. As you also know, the House voted unanimously twice, at second reading and at third reading of this bill. Even Mr. Trudeau, who is now the prime minister, voted for the bill.

The current Minister of Justice says Bill C-36 would create problems for consecutive sentences. I would like to take the opportunity to congratulate the previous government for passing this major piece of legislation on prostitution. You will recall that Bill C-36 received royal assent on November 6, 2014, while Bill C-245 received royal assent on June 18, 2015, nearly a year later.

Everyone voted for it. Why does Mr. Trudeau seem to be changing his mind now that he is prime minister? Victims are very frustrated by this, especially families with children who have run away or who are in prostitution networks, and who are told by police officers that they cannot take action without testimony or a complaint, even in the case of girls who are minors. The government must declare this act to be in force immediately without waiting for Bill C-75 to be passed or receive royal assent.

May 29th, 2018 / 5:10 p.m.
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Frances Mahon Lawyer, Pivot Legal Society

Thank you.

My name is Frances Mahon, and thank you very much to the committee for inviting me to discuss how human trafficking enforcement is working in Canada. We applaud the government for giving this urgent issue the attention it deserves.

I'm speaking to you today from Vancouver, British Columbia, and I would like to acknowledge that these are the unceded and traditional territories of the Squamish, Musqueam, and Tsleil-Waututh peoples.

I'm a criminal, immigration, and refugee lawyer. I frequently represent individual sex workers, as well as sex work advocacy organizations like Pivot Legal Society. In 2014 I appeared as a witness to the Senate standing committee considering Bill C-36, which overhauled the prostitution provisions in the Criminal Code.

Pivot Legal Society is a human rights organization in Vancouver. One of its primary activities is working with communities of sex workers in Vancouver and elsewhere, and bringing this community perspective to lawmakers as part of its law reform work. Pivot intervened at the Supreme Court in Bedford, and also provided submissions to the House of Commons and to the Senate considering Bill C-36.

We urge this committee to develop a nuanced, evidence-based, and effective strategy that takes into account both the human rights and dignity of sex workers and the need to protect vulnerable groups from trafficking. Creating an environment where sex workers can enjoy respectful and trusting relationships with law enforcement will facilitate the investigation and prosecution of genuine cases of trafficking.

I'm going to speak to you on two issues. The first is the lack of a clear definition for human trafficking that complies with international standards. The second is very close to my heart, and one I frequently encounter with my clients, which is abusive police and immigration enforcement of sex workers and trafficking victims under the guise of human trafficking investigations.

On the first issue, I want to address a point Mr. Warrack made, which is around the lack of statistics on human trafficking in Canada. I believe this is exacerbated by the fact that we do not have a clear definition of human trafficking. We often don't know what's being referred to—labour exploitation, sex trafficking, or indeed consensual adult sex work. This committee must give thought to what human trafficking is, and what it is not.

I represent both sex workers and victims of exploitation, and I appreciate that this is a complex issue. Individual situations may not always be so clear-cut between what is truly consensual and what is not, but the current criminal law framework for both sex work and human trafficking has a detrimental impact on the most vulnerable members of our society, particularly indigenous and immigrant individuals.

Canada's human trafficking law is much broader than the internationally accepted definition of human trafficking, and may, in addition to catching victims of human trafficking, also criminalize sex workers and third parties who are legitimately working in the trade as consenting adults.

I would like to draw the committee's attention to the definition of human trafficking, as provided by the United Nations protocol to prevent, suppress, and punish trafficking in persons. This definition requires an element of coercion for the recruitment and movement of persons for the purposes of labour exploitation.

The crime of human trafficking in Canada does not actually require a coercive element, and this significantly widens the net in terms of who may be caught up in it. For example, simply moving a person, if it's done to facilitate their exploitation, could be enough to find criminal liability. This matters because it creates the possibility that victims of trafficking may themselves be criminalized. I would like to refer you to the testimony of Ms. Lori Anne Thomas, who spoke to you on May 22 about how one of her clients was charged with human trafficking despite being herself a victim.

Although the crime of human trafficking requires an element of exploitation, this does not solve the problem, because exploitation as defined also does not require an element of coercion. No evidence of the victim's actual state of mind or experience is required. This has the potential to remove a victim's autonomy and experience from the process, but it can also criminalize third parties who are legitimately working with individuals in the sex trade.

Now I'd like to move on to the impacts of aggressive human trafficking enforcement on both victims of trafficking and people who are working in the trade.

It's an unfortunate reality, and something that I'm frequently consulted on, that both sex workers and victims in trafficking are the victims of crime because they're experiencing harassment and abuse from clients, they've been robbed at work, or they're just dealing with employment-related issues that don't rise to the level of trafficking. The problem is that they're afraid to make police complaints because of the uncertainty around the legality of their work and concerns about drawing attention to immigration status or to their fellow workers. This is especially unfortunate because it's people in the industry who are the best placed to identify victims of trafficking and bring that to the attention of law enforcement.

The problem is exacerbated by the fact that police enforcement often brings along the Canada Border Services Agency to human trafficking investigations, which can result in deportation of victims of trafficking out of Canada, as well as deportations for people who are working here by their own consent. This is something that I have also seen a lot of in my experience as a lawyer, both in Vancouver and in Toronto.

Even when it doesn't result in deportations or loss of immigration status, it does serve to drive the clients away, meaning that those who are paid per client, rather than per hour, may have to work longer, and it leaves sex workers with pervasive anxiety about their work.

These intrusive police strategies erode trust between victims and sex workers and the police. I'm going to give you a few examples of these abusive police tactics that I've come across in my own experience or that have been the subject of some media.

In Operation Northern Spotlight, which I'm sure this committee is familiar with, 11 people were arrested during a sting in April 2015. These people were held without the ability to contact anyone else and ultimately deported without having received any assistance whatsoever from community organizations. Because the police used a very common tactic, which is arranging fake dates with sex workers in order to gain access to their workplaces, which are often their homes, Operation Northern Spotlight and similarly styled investigations continue to generate fear and mistrust.

Migrant sex workers have also experienced a great deal of abuse at the hands of the police. More than 40% of women contacted by the Toronto-based organization Butterfly, which works with migrant sex workers, reported that they had experienced abuse, such as seizing condoms as evidence, or in some cases, police pulling up their dresses to see if they were wearing underwear as proof of whether they were working as sex workers.

As a local example, here in Vancouver we had a disgraced detective from the counter-exploitation unit, who recently pleaded guilty after he sexually assaulted minor victims of sexual exploitation and human trafficking.

It's not surprising that in a survey conducted by SWAN, here in Vancouver, 95% of the immigrants they work with stated that they would not contact law enforcement if they experienced a violent crime.

The human trafficking investigations and prosecutions also lead to dangerous assumptions of guilt by association. Immigrant sex workers in particular, who may not have very good English or French skills, depend on the assistance of their others, whether they're colleagues or their managers, in order to make their work both safe and viable. For example, they rely on others to help them place ads so that they do not have to be based on the street, and to find work spaces so they can be working indoors, which has been accepted by the Supreme Court of Canada as by far the safest way to exist in the sex trade. However, under the trafficking and the procuring laws, they fear implicating their friends and their co-workers, who could face serious charges merely for being an associate.

I'll give you an example of a report that Pivot received from Butterfly regarding a woman who was detained for two weeks by the police as a trafficked person despite her insistence that she was working voluntarily.

She was never criminally charged, but her phone was seized as evidence. She was forbidden from making calls to anyone including legal counsel, and the police seized $10,000 of her money as evidence as part of their ongoing investigation. It has not been returned to her.

After a search of her hotel room, the police came across a photo of her and her friend and arrested her friend. Although that person was eventually released, she did lose her housing in the process. During that process, the sex worker herself actually disclosed to the police that she had recently been sexually assaulted and robbed, but no investigation was undertaken into the crimes committed against her.

This is unfortunate, and it's very common in my experience for both sex workers and victims of crime to have these experiences with law enforcement. I'm frequently contacted by people who are experiencing harassment or who have been assaulted but are too afraid to go to the police to make a complaint. In some cases, I've been retained to actually make the complaint myself to the police on behalf of third parties. Not every police officer is willing to accept such a complaint from a lawyer who is not actually involved in the crime. Again, this leads to under-reporting and under-investigation of crimes that are actually occurring against sex workers and victims.

May 22nd, 2018 / 4:15 p.m.
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Natasha Falle Co-Founder and Director, Sextrade101

Thank you for the invitation to speak today. I'm going to briefly tell you a little bit of my background.

I am a survivor of both independent prostitution and forced prostitution. For seven years of my 12-year stint I was trafficked by a known pimp and felt pressured by the sex industry to gain his protection due to the amount of violence I dealt with on a daily basis by entitled and often abusive men. I was then abused not only by sex buyers, but by my pimp as well. Once he was shot twice by a pimp whose intention was to shoot me. He stabbed another man seven times for assaulting me. We were taught not to go to the police. We were taught to deal with violence with our own hands in the sex industry. Involving the police brought bad attention to their establishment. He would often tell me that I owe him my life for what he did and no one would love me the way he did. It's now been two decades and he is still a pimp, promoting himself as a stag manager with a website he probably built for free and a business licence he probably paid $120 for.

I'm going to talk a little bit about our coalition.

We are Canada's leading survivor activists regarding the sex trade industry and organized pimp violence. We offer public awareness and education on all aspects of the sex trade in order to eradicate myths and stereotypes about prostitution by replacing them with facts and true stories for women who have been enslaved by this dark and lucrative industry.

We are a group of very diverse and unique Canadian women. Our backgrounds and our stories are quite different. The common thread is prostitution. We have come together under the organization Sextrade101: Public Awareness and Education, to promote ourselves as sex trade experts, front-line workers, speakers, teachers, advocates, and activists for the rights of sex trafficking victims and prostitution survivors. Our reasons for this unity are personal to us. Our main goal is to offer a deeper insight into what the sex trade really consists of. Our stories differ one from the next. Some of us have horror stories, heartbreaking stories, stories that will make your jaw drop, and likewise powerless stories.

Aside from the sensationalism that surrounds prostitution, we want to be bold about telling you the truths within the trade. We have been collectively afraid, raped, beaten, sold, and discarded. Most of us were also children who were forgotten, neglected, abused, used, led astray, abandoned, and not protected. We believe every one should be shown a viable way out of the sex trade, not encouraged to stay in it. We believe in helping people understand the full picture of life in prostitution before they get involved and in helping women get out alive, with their minds, bodies and lives intact.

We are ready for a dialogue, for sensible, healthy communication with others who believe as we do. It's going to take a collective effort for us to abolish the world's oldest oppression. We offer first-hand knowledge of the barriers people face when trying to get out, and stay out, and we create opportunities for positive change for those enslaved by the sex trade and/or sex trafficking.

One of the items up for discussion today is the human trafficking strategy to combat human trafficking. This strategy is divided into four parts: the prevention of human trafficking, the protection of victims, the prosecution of offenders, and working in partnership with others both domestically and internationally. The only major comment we have about the human trafficking strategy is about prevention. These are the steps that were to be implemented for the goal fo prevention: promote training for front-line services, support and develop human trafficking awareness campaigns within sex trafficking, provide assistance to communities to identify places and people most at risk, and strengthen child protection systems within the Canadian International Development Agency's programs targeting children and youth.

That's all good, but there has been no coordinated effort do defund the sex industry. Reducing the money that fuels the sex industry requires that men be discouraged from purchasing sexual services. This is the only way we can expect to see a reduction in sex trafficking.

Some will say that traffickers are really bad and sex buyers aren't doing anything wrong, so we must go after the bad guys, the traffickers. Traffickers do it for two reasons, mainly for the money and secondarily for the notoriety. Therefore, if the market demand is high, if the money is available for the taking, trafficking will happen. Police enforcement against trafficking does not reduce human trafficking rates because being pursued by law enforcement, and even going to prison, helps the traffickers achieve the same notoriety as a gangster. Contrast that with police enforcement against buying sex; sex buyers are much less likely to buy sex if they know being arrested is a realistic possibility.

Sadly, john sweeps have been greatly reduced since the Bedford challenge to the prostitution law. Even with the new prostitution legislation, Bill C-36, purchasers of sex are supposed to be criminalized, yet very few are.

Academic studies do not support the notion that normalizing and regulating prostitution reduces human trafficking. However, there are many academic studies from around the world that indicate that enforcement against the purchase of sexual services does achieve that goal. Information to the contrary, used by the pro-prostitution lobby, is merely anecdotal. It is not credible and must therefore be disregarded.

Prostitution is violence, sexual violence, and discrimination at the hands of sex buyers for the profits of the sex trade, including pimps and brothel owners. Prostitution is gendered and preys on the most vulnerable women and girls. Of the 40 million to 42 million prostituted individuals in the world, 80% are female, and three-quarters are between the ages of 13 and 25.

Prostitution in many countries, and in Canada, under the Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons Act, is seen as incompatible with women's equality and human rights.

The PCEPA already decriminalizes prostituted women in almost every situation, so why would the Liberal Party want to decriminalize pimping?

With no debate or information provided, the Liberal Party voted in favour of a resolution calling for the decriminalization of pimping and the repeal of Bill C-36, despite the fact that both the Conservative and Liberal parties had legal experts review Bill C-36 and found it to be unconstitutional.

We are survivors, and very few of us have been asked for our input at the tables. Also, we are extremely disturbed that you would refer to exploited women and girls as sex workers. Sex work and sex worker are terms that were invented by the sex trade to normalize exploitation and mask the harm of prostitution.

We are asking why the government is being influenced by the pro-decriminalization, pro-pimping lobby, in violation of Canadian and international law.

All women and children have a right to equality before and under the law, as well as the right to dignity and the right to live free of prostitution and violence in all its forms. We have the right to be protected from men who proposition us for sex and think their money can buy all women and girls.

You must understand the relationship between prostitution and sex trafficking. Sex trafficking is the engine that pimps and traffickers use to bring their victims to prostitution. Without a vibrant sex trade, there would be no sex trafficking. It is the male demand for prostitution that fuels sex trafficking.

You already have the tools to decrease—

March 1st, 2018 / 4:15 p.m.
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Executive Director, Ma Mawi Wi Chi Itata Centre Inc.

Diane Redsky

[Technical difficulty ] to address the demand. When you take a look at changing any behaviour, like quitting smoking, drinking and driving, and all of those, why did those work? They worked because you had laws in place that criminalized the negative behaviour and you had public education and awareness.

Specifically with the john schools, we have to remember that the charge that they're getting is a summary offence, so it's actually a public nuisance charge with a summary offence that propels them into john school. We really need to be as a society and as Canadians saying that violence against women is serious enough that it should be an indictable offence.

However, that being said, for police officers to be able to intervene in that moment when they need to separate a trafficker from a victim they need all the tools in order to make that possible. The prostitution legislation that propels them into john school is one of those ways. If that's what it takes, that's certainly something I support.

What we have done in Winnipeg is doubled the numbers of charges related to communication and the prostitution in Bill C-36. Those resources typically are used for going into helping women and girls. There is now a larger pot of money because they're arresting more of the demand. There's a larger pot of money that now community organizations can do something with to support victims of sexual exploitation and trafficking.

March 1st, 2018 / 3:35 p.m.
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Executive Director, Ma Mawi Wi Chi Itata Centre Inc.

Diane Redsky

Thank you. I'm going to do a quick time check so that I use my eight minutes wisely. I'm reading from notes that I sent in advance.

I want to thank all of you for the opportunity to be here and for accommodating the video, as well as thank Joy Smith for helping me get on this important agenda.

I'd like to begin by acknowledging the Anishinaabe territory, both in Duluth and in Ottawa, that we all have the privilege of being on.

I have broken up my presentation into three areas. I'm going to talk fast, so I feel bad for the interpreters, but I have lots to say and I'm going to use my time wisely. Those three areas are national recommendations, promising practices, and how this committee can help the front lines. My speaking notes have been provided.

The focus of my presentation on human trafficking will be on the purposes of sexual exploitation, also known as sex trafficking. There are several intersections between labour and sex trafficking, but for the purposes of this presentation I'll only be focusing in on sex trafficking from a national, front-line, and indigenous perspective.

Please keep in mind that human trafficking is based on supply and demand. There will be always be a supply as long as there is a demand for human trafficking. Girls and women will continue to be bought and sold as long as the laws allow men to buy them. Sex trafficking is rooted in greed, misogyny, racism, classism, and sexism at its very worst. Sex trafficking is a 100% preventable crime.

Before I begin, it is important for all of us to acknowledge the survivors of sex trafficking, whether they are currently being victimized or on their lifelong healing journey. Their voice is often not heard, and I strongly encourage this committee, in a trauma-informed way, to seek their input, advice, guidance and, most importantly, their support and blessings of your recommendations.

My first point is on the national recommendations. In 2014, I was part of a national task force on sex trafficking of women and girls in Canada with the best experts and leaders in Canada. This remains the most relevant report and research on the issue and can be found on the Ma Mawi Wi Chi Itata Centre website. The final task force report, entitled “No More”, outlines 34 recommendations on how to end sex trafficking in Canada. There are seven recommendations that are specific to this committee, and they are about the laws.

Number one is to enforce the human trafficking and sexual exploitation laws that we currently have.

Number two is to give trafficked women and girls a reason to come forward. We need to change the Criminal Code to focus on the traffickers' actions and not the victims' beliefs, history, or behaviour. We need to increase the civil causes of action and civil forfeiture procedures to return the profits of traffickers to victims. We need to engage expert witnesses to support victim testimony and make testimonial aids available for trafficking victims.

Number three—this is important for women to rebuild their lives—is to vacate and purge records for non-violent crimes committed as a direct result of trafficking.

Number four is to increase police capacity to provide victim-centred services.

Number five, strengthen protections for migrant women and girls.

Number six, end the municipal regulatory patchwork of Canada's sex industry.

Number seven, decriminalize women and girls who sell or who have sold sex, and undercut the demand for trafficked women and girls by criminalizing those who buy sex. This is also known as the Swedish model.

The second area I'd like to focus on is promising practices. I would ask that this committee look to the Manitoba strategy, launched in 2002. It was the first strategy in Canada to address sexual exploitation and sex trafficking. The strategy is entitled Tracia's Trust, in memory of Tracia Owen. Manitoba was the only province in Canada up until 2006 to have a strategy. Now, 14 years later, Ontario has a provincial strategy to address sexual exploitation and trafficking. I ask that you look particularly to Manitoba and the comprehensive strategy that exists, which includes a combination of services, laws, and public education and prevention, as a whole strategy .

This is comprehensive. I can't get into the whole strategy, but for the purposes of today, I want to highlight that Manitoba invests $11 million in that provincial strategy to address sexual exploitation and trafficking. This is based on a population of 1.2 million. No other province even comes close to the amount of investment that Manitoba makes, and this is still not enough.

However, as a result of the provincial strategy, several unique resources have been developed. At Mawi Wi Chi Itata Centre, we opened up one of the first safe houses for girls 13 to 17, and we operate the only rural healing lodge in Canada for child victims of sex trafficking. That was opened in 2010. We also have specialized training programs for survivors.

Our great success in Manitoba has been because of local action led by grassroots community, by indigenous women leaders, and by an experiential advisory committee of survivors who are guiding and directing the development of service. Who best to answer the questions and give us the answers but experiential women, women with lived experience?

Manitoba also has a dedicated provincial human trafficking hotline. We also have a dedicated prosecution office that specializes in sexual exploitation and sex trafficking. Winnipeg has one of the rare policing agencies in Canada with a specialized counter–sexual exploitation unit with the best and brightest of our law enforcement officers, because we need that in order to address the demand and help women.

Most importantly, these services are developed, led, and operated by many indigenous organizations, along with survivors of sex trafficking, because of the overrepresentation of indigenous girls. I emphasize the word “girls”. These are girls who are under the age of 18 who are targeted for sex trafficking. There's a huge market for indigenous women and girls to victimize.

We have the only provincial human trafficking act, which I encourage you to look at as well. There is also collaboration with our United States partners in North Dakota. Manitoba and North Dakota have a network of agencies and law enforcement that are working together, because sex trafficking doesn't care about borders.

What we hear from our girls at Hands of Mother Earth—our rural healing lodge that we've operated since 2010 and our safe house—and what we know about the victimization of indigenous girls 13 to 17 is that their sexual exploitation started young, as young as 9. They are groomed and lured both online and in person. Girls from northern first nation communities are at particular risk.

The control by the trafficker can take on many forms. He poses as a boyfriend, a drug dealer, an uncle, a father figure, a daddy, or an older man supplying them with drugs and a place to stay. They are coerced to perform sex acts as many as six to 10 times a day, seven days a week, and hand over their money or bring the equivalent of drugs back. Survivors describe this experience as multiple incidents of paid rape.

Meth is becoming a huge factor in controlling girls. A girl is more profitable to a trafficker than an adult woman. Trauma bonding with their trafficker makes it very difficult to intervene within that relationship, and we really need to understand that power dynamic. Most are trafficked because they are children in the care of Child and Family Services, and many of them have had multiple placements in their lives.

Who makes up the demand? There are many men. It's not just a few doing lots of bad things. There are lots of men doing bad things. The traffickers are just as diverse as the demand and the men who are sexually abusing and violating our girls. Unlike drugs, which you can only sell once, human trafficking is all about recruiting and luring women and girls because one woman or girl can be sold over and over again. We don't just have a few victims in Manitoba. We have hundreds of girls in Manitoba each day.

I also have to acknowledge the power of survivors. These girls have been let down by systems and adults their entire little life. Yet, under the right kind of supportive environment—trauma-informed; indigenous-led; survivors employed as helpers, which we refer to as heart medicine work—they thrive on their healing journey, and many have become survivor leaders. In fact, our rural healing lodge and safe house currently employs several young women who were once in the program and now work for the program to help other girls.

The third part—and I've almost finished—is that I have four recommendations to this committee on how this committee can help.

One, renew the national action plan, and when you renew it, emphasize this time the funding to front-line services.

Two, data collection is critically important, but don't let that hold you back. Do that in conjunction with other policy and funding programs. We just need a coordinated way and one definition. While some are looking to answer how many trafficking victims there are, there are front-line organizations like ours, and many others on the ground, who can’t keep up with the volume of victims who are coming forward.

Three, we need a whole improvement of victim service strategy that is directly connected to lifelong healing and not contingent on being involved in the court system. We lose too many girls to suicide while they go through the court system. Women and girls need that support in order to rebuild their lives. Finally, but very importantly, to build on what Joy Smith was saying, do not repeal Bill C-36. Please, please make sure with regard to Bill C-36, the protection of communities and exploited persons act. Advocates like me and many others across Canada have worked really hard to bring the voices of victims of sexual exploitation and trafficking into this conversation. Our experience has come from many years of working on the front lines with girls and women whose voices are often not heard.

Buying sex from women and girls is violence against women, period. The most harmful impacts are to indigenous women and girls. We need the laws to benefit us and not perpetuate racism and create further harm. We have to make the laws work for indigenous women and girls rather than make it easier for perpetrators to victimize. If Bill C-36 is repealed, it will completely immobilize our ability to protect women and girls from perpetrators. You will make traffickers entrepreneurs, and tie the hands of police to address the high demand. For example, Winnipeg police made 84 arrests in 2016, doubled that in 2017, and will continue to do so. We need those tools for police in order to address the demand.

It makes sense to criminalize the demand. I am hopeful that since we looked to our Swedish friends for guidance on launching Canada’s women’s equality budget, we can also continue to keep the current Canadian version of the Swedish model in Bill C-36 that criminalizes the purchase of sex while ensuring that victims of sexual exploitation and trafficking are not criminalized.

Meegwetch. Thank you.

February 15th, 2018 / 4:15 p.m.
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Liberal

Sean Casey Liberal Charlottetown, PE

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I'm just trying to get my head around how I can make this into a short question. I was on this committee back in 2014, when certain provisions of the prostitution law were found to be unconstitutional and the government was obligated to respond. We always wonder, after the exhaustive examination we did, whatever happened.

Mr. Taylor, you referred to it a couple of times, but I think Commissioner Crampton is probably closer to the ground. What impact has Bill C-36, the Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons Act, had on the phenomenon of human trafficking?

I direct it to you, Commissioner Crampton, and to you, Mr. Taylor, if you have something to add.

Thank you.

February 15th, 2018 / 4 p.m.
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Acting Senior Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section, Policy Sector, Department of Justice

Matthew Taylor

You're correct that the amendments that were passed through Bill C-452 by Parliament are not yet in force. Bill C-38, which was introduced by the government, is in the House of Commons currently. It proposes to amend the coming into force clause of Bill C-452 for the reasons you have outlined with respect to the mandatory consecutive sentencing. It's no surprise that it's complicated to follow because it also relates to another piece of legislation that was passed by Parliament, Bill C-36, which I spoke about, and that was the bill that enacted mandatory minimum penalties for trafficking.

February 15th, 2018 / 3:20 p.m.
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Acting Senior Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section, Policy Sector, Department of Justice

Matthew Taylor

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I thought it might be helpful to the committee for me to provide information for you on two separate things: first, the legislative history of Canada's criminal laws on human trafficking, and second, some background information on the types of programs that Justice Canada has funded to enhance services for victims of human trafficking.

Canada's first human trafficking specific offence was enacted in 2002 as part of the enactment of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act. Section 118 prohibits the trafficking of persons into Canada and targets the means used by traffickers, such as force, fraud, abduction, deception, or coercion to bring victims into our country. It should be noted that the enactment of this offence coincided with Canada's implementation of the UN protocol to prevent, suppress and punish trafficking in persons, especially women and children, which Canada ratified in May of 2002.

In 2005, Parliament passed Bill C-49, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (trafficking in persons), and enacted three specific Criminal Code offences to more comprehensively address human trafficking, specifically, section 279.01 which prohibits all forms of human trafficking, domestic or transnational, and for any exploitative purpose; section 279.02, which prohibits the receipt of a financial or a material benefit knowing that it was derived from human trafficking; and, third, section 279.03, which prohibits the holding of identity documents to facilitate human trafficking.

Since that time, additional criminal law reforms have been passed by Parliament. In 2010, a private member's bill, Bill C-268, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (minimum sentence for offences involving trafficking of persons under the age of eighteen years), was enacted, creating a separate offence of trafficking in children that is punishable by mandatory minimum penalties of imprisonment.

In 2012, two years later, a private member's bill, Bill C-310, was enacted, enabling Canada to assume extraterritorial jurisdiction to prosecute in Canada Canadian citizens or permanent residents who commit human trafficking abroad. It also enacted a provision in subsection 279.04(2) that provides guidance to the courts in helping them to determine whether exploitation has been made out, exploitation being an essential element of the trafficking in persons offence.

In 2014, former Bill C-36 was passed, enacting the Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons Act.This act provided new mandatory minimum penalties for human trafficking involving adult victims and for the financial benefit and documents offences involving child victims.

Most recently, the government has introduced Bill C-38, an act to amend An Act to amend the Criminal Code (exploitation and trafficking in persons), to bring in force certain amendments that were passed in Parliament in 2015 through a private member's bill, Bill C-452, and also An Act to amend the Criminal Code (exploitation and trafficking in persons). These provisions would enact an evidentiary presumption to help prosecutors prove an element of the human trafficking offence.

That's a bit of a summary of the changes that have been enacted by Parliament. As you can see, these criminal laws in respect of human trafficking have been the subject of ongoing interest and concern by parliamentarians.

At the same time, Justice Canada has supported their implementation in various ways, including through the provision of regular training to police and prosecutors, in conjunction with the RCMP and other police forces, victim services, and other experts. We've developed a handbook for police and prosecutors and fact sheets on key criminal justice issues for police and prosecutors, such as sentencing submissions, bail proceedings, and things of that nature in a human trafficking context. Justice officials have participated in similar efforts internationally, working closely with the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime to develop similar technical assistance tools to support implementation around the world.

The department is also supporting improvements to victim services. A copy of initiatives that have been funded since 2012 by the department through the victims fund has been provided to the clerk of the committee, I believe, detailing the specifics of each project. Examples for your information include: enhancing victim services delivery in British Columbia, Alberta, Ontario, and Quebec; supporting the development of a resource handbook for indigenous women and girls who were victimized through human trafficking for the purposes of sexual exploitation; and, developing a mental health and addictions program for women and girls who were victims of trafficking.

I'm going to conclude my remarks there. I look forward to any questions.

JusticeOral Questions

June 15th, 2016 / 3:05 p.m.
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Charlottetown P.E.I.

Liberal

Sean Casey LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada

Mr. Speaker, I reject the premise of that question. This government is very committed to attacking the scourge of human trafficking in this country. We are well seized of this issue. We were the ones who instituted an inquiry into murdered and missing aboriginal women. We are also going to be reviewing in detail the provisions of Bill C-36, the flawed piece of legislation that was brought in by the previous government.

We are seized of it, we are acting on it, and we will indeed come up with an evidence-based solution to this terrible scourge.

Resumption of Debate on Address in ReplySpeech From The Throne

January 25th, 2016 / 1:35 p.m.
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Green

Elizabeth May Green Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC

Mr. Speaker, I also want to congratulate the hon. minister on her election, although she will know that I am very sad to lose the member she replaces, but I welcome her in her new role. I also commend the minister and her colleagues for starting the inquiry into murdered and missing indigenous.

However, I want to support the decision just taken by the hon. member for Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, that Bill C-36 represents a threat, not just for women in the sex trade, but to any sex trade worker, which it has. I have heard first hand from groups working with sex trade workers and from sex trade workers themselves. They say that Bill C-36 has put them in more vulnerable positions than they were in even before the Supreme Court ruling. Therefore, it has done the opposite of what the Supreme Court has urged us to do.

I take the minister's point that she awaits a decision and recommendations from the Minister of Justice, but I hope this new government will pursue the repeal of Bill C-36.

Resumption of Debate on Address in ReplySpeech From The Throne

January 25th, 2016 / 1:35 p.m.
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NDP

Randall Garrison NDP Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC

Mr. Speaker, I salute the community work the minister did before coming to the House.

I want to quickly ask her two questions.

First, as she may be aware, I put forward a bill to provide equal protections for transgendered Canadians, transgendered Canadians being some of the people who are quite often forced to use shelters and who are subject to some of the worst violence in the country. Would she join with me in urging the Minister of Justice to bring that forward as a government bill?

My second question has to do with the situation of those who are involved in sex work in Canada. Under the previous government, the Supreme Court decision that decriminalized sex work was, in effect, overturned by Bill C-36. Now many people, for whatever reason, involved in the sex trade are being subjected to discrimination and to a great deal of violence as a result of that bill.

What is the minister's position is on the recriminalization of sex work?

Zero Tolerance for Barbaric Cultural Practices ActGovernment Orders

June 16th, 2015 / 12:50 p.m.
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Conservative

Joy Smith Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for her very important input into Bill C-36. I quite enjoy the heart she shows for victims. However, I totally reject the premise of her comment that Bill S-7 would criminalize victims. It would protect women.

That young girl, after talking to her sister who she was close to, jumped off a bridge as a result of a forced marriage. Her sister told me that there had to be a bill put in place that would protect her against having to succumb to a forced marriage.

This bill would protect women. Therefore, I strongly disagree with the premise of the question that the hon. member across the way put forward a minute ago. The bill would protect the victims from terrible abuse, intimidation and a lifetime of horrendous brutal experiences.

Bill S-7 would open the door for these women, and it is high time we did this in our country.

Zero Tolerance for Barbaric Cultural Practices ActGovernment Orders

June 16th, 2015 / 12:50 p.m.
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NDP

Ève Péclet NDP La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC

Mr. Speaker, I very much appreciated my colleague’s speech. I know that women’s rights are very important to her. We worked together on Bill C-36 concerning prostitution. There was a provision in that bill that unfortunately criminalized the victims, the women. The government proposed an amendment precisely because criminalizing victims as an objective will never put an end to any criminal activity. In fact, she supported that amendment.

However, what struck me is that Bill S-7 does exactly the same thing. It criminalizes these women, who are themselves victims of an unacceptable practice. I would like to know why the government was not prepared to reverse the trend, in this bill, and remove the provisions that criminalize the victims.

We know it, and my colleague knows it: criminalizing victims does not prevent offences from being committed.

Members not seeking re-election to the 42nd ParliamentGovernment Orders

June 9th, 2015 / 8:25 p.m.
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Conservative

Joy Smith Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB

Mr. Chair, it is my pleasure tonight to give my farewell speech here in the beautiful Parliament of Canada. These past 11 years have been a very interesting time here in Canada.

I have to thank first of all my beautiful family. My son Edward actually inspired me to come to Parliament because of his work in the ICE unit, because of his heart for those who could not help themselves, the trafficking victims and the child abuse cases he worked on. As my son, he turned my heart as a mother and subsequently the nation's heart was turned, because in this place I was able to come and represent the survivors of human trafficking. I thank my son Michael, who is a brilliant young man; Janet who is a top supporter of everything that I have done; Natasha, who is absolutely creative and brilliant; Alexandra, of course, who does so much on my foundation and who is truly a wonderfully caring human being; and Jenna. Those are my six children, and there are my grandchildren.

I am eternally grateful to my family for supporting everything I have done since I came to Parliament Hill. Of course, I thank my husband. He has suffered cancer through a large part of my stay here over the 11 years. I thank him for believing in my work and inspiring me to carry on.

Also, I thank my EDA who supported me in everything I have done, especially John Feldsted and Kaz Malkiewicz. John Feldsted was the president of my EDA for three years and continues to do much to further the cause of the political side of what I do.

I thank all the people across the country for their prayers as I did my work to bring laws to this place to combat human trafficking. Those prayers mean a lot because first in my life is my God. He is my strength. Second is my family, and everything else comes underneath that.

There are three people who I have to recognize as well: Brian McConaghy of Ratanak, who is my brother in terms of fighting human trafficking here in Canada and worldwide; Jamie McIntosh, who started International Justice Mission; and Benjamin Perrin, who started The Future Group. It is like the group of three. These people have always been with me through the many years, even before I came to Parliament and certainly during the time that I spent here.

Most of all, I would like to thank the survivors of human trafficking. When I came here I had a vision to stop human trafficking. I had a vision to get laws through to protect the victims of human trafficking. I did put two laws through that made Canadian history, thanks to the grace of God. They are survivors like Timea Nagy, Natasha Falle, Bridget Perrier, Trisha Baptie, just to name a few. They are absolutely amazing young women.

Around this place, to my colleagues in the Conservative caucus and my colleagues across the way, there have been real friendships welded together because of the common good. I believe everyone in the House has the good of the country at heart.

There is a man who sat in our lobby for years, John Holtby. He was such an encouragement to me. He was a brilliant man who cared very deeply about the issues and about my work.

There is a young lady, Kelly Williams, who worked with me, and on me as a matter of fact, when I was chair of the health committee. She did a lot of work around the committees.

Of course, there are the security people, the restaurant people, the pages and all who make Parliament work.

When I stop to look back at why I came here, for me, I came to stop human trafficking in our country. If it was not for the survivors who use their bravery to speak out, if it was not for ministers, like the Minister of Justice, and others, I would never have been able to accomplish what I wanted to accomplish.

When I think about the leaders in this Parliament, I know there have been many who have been very strongly affected by the human trafficking issue here in our country and who stood up in this Parliament to protect the most vulnerable. I thank them for that.

I thank Susan Finlay, my prayer partner. She has been my prayer partner for years, and she has always been with me. In my down times and triumphant times, she was always there.

This Parliament is a place where we change the laws of the land. There are very talented decision makers in this place, and often we do not see the small things that are there. To me, especially, the small things but very important things and people are the people like my staff.

Joel Oosterman, my chief of staff, and his wife Kristy have been with me for a very long time. I love them like family. Marian Jaworski, who runs my constituency office, is just an amazing person. I have to say that those are the people who saw the vision with me and who helped me. Joel is one of the most talented writers I have ever come across. If anyone needs anything, even a kidney, ask Marian. He will find it. He is that kind of staff member. He is just an incredibly honest man who stands above many.

All these people come together for such a time as this, to stop human trafficking here in Canada. God rest her soul, my mother always said that we should leave the world a better place and I hope that, because I have been here, that has occurred.

I have to say that there are many laws we have here, such as Bill C-268, regarding mandatory minimum sentences for traffickers of children age 18 years and under. There is Bill C-310, where we reached the long arm of Canadian law into other countries when Canadian citizens or permanent residents go to traffic or exploit others. We can now bring them back to Canada.

My heart started to really look to leaving this place on December 6, 2014. On that day, we passed Bill C-36, on which I worked with the Minister of Justice. For the first time in Canadian history, the buying of sex is illegal in this country. Now, we are at a point where we can press the button and have a new start. At that point in my career, I knew I had to leave this place.

I knew I had to do something else, so I am working on my foundation, the Joy Smith Foundation. I will continue to do that, I believe, until the end of time. The foundation is going very well. I have had hundreds of lovely letters from around the country from victims who have said thanks and that the foundation has helped them to restart their lives. What could be better than that?

I have a book coming out before Christmas, called I Just Didn't Know. All of the proceeds will be going to my foundation. I really hope the book touches the hearts of Canadians and people across the country who read it, because it has real life stories in it. Brave survivors have agreed to tell their stories, put their pictures in it, and explain how traffickers are able to lure young people.

It is my very great honour to have served and to continue to serve my country in this great place, the Parliament of Canada. It is rare to have the privilege of doing that and it is rare to have met all of the people in my caucus who I call friends and who are astoundingly strong leaders and decision-makers in this country.

I thank God for the opportunity that I had here, and I look forward to rekindling and keeping those friendships along the way as I go on to my other career.

Motions in AmendmentZero Tolerance for Barbaric Cultural Practices ActGovernment Orders

May 28th, 2015 / 3:55 p.m.
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NDP

Ève Péclet NDP La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC

Mr. Speaker, I would remind the parliamentary secretary that yesterday, when he had the opportunity to rise in the House to vote in favour of our motion to end violence against women, he sadly decided to vote against it.

I understand his speech, but I think it is a bit rich of him to point his finger at the NDP, which moved the motion his own government voted against. The biggest problem here is that while we are talking about victims, we are also making criminals of them.

The Conservatives did the same thing with Bill C-36 concerning prostitution. They said that women who worked as prostitutes were victims, but they forgot that their bill turned them into criminals. Then they proposed an amendment to their bill, but it still made criminals of the victims in certain circumstances.

They are doing the same thing today: they are making criminals of the people they say are victims. That does not work, and all the experts agree.

What facts or scientific studies do they have to show that making victims into criminals will improve the situation?

May 11th, 2015 / 4:25 p.m.
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Conservative

Costas Menegakis Conservative Richmond Hill, ON

Minister, last summer you articulated the government's response to the Bedford decision, both to this committee and Parliament, and throughout Canada. The result of those efforts, and the passage of Bill C-36, was a built-in-Canada model, which was widely applauded by law enforcement agencies across the country, and I might add by the York Regional Police service in the region that I live in. With this bill, our government demonstrated our support and compassion for the women who are trying to get out of prostitution to stop this circle of violence in their lives.

Minister, the passage of Bill C-36 was coupled with a funding commitment to help those who are trying to leave the practice. In these estimates, there is an increase of $1.9 million in support of non-legislative measures to address prostitution. Could you talk a bit about this funding commitment, please?

May 11th, 2015 / 3:30 p.m.
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Central Nova Nova Scotia

Conservative

Peter MacKay ConservativeMinister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, colleagues. It's a pleasure to be before you to discuss, as noted by the chair, the main estimates for the Department of Justice.

This is my 56th appearance before a standing committee as a government minister. Joining me today are the deputy minister of justice and deputy attorney general, William Pentney; the associate deputy minister, Pierre Legault; and senior assistant deputy minister of policy, Donald Piragoff; all of whom have extensive experience before committees as well and certainly within this department.

Mr. Chair and colleagues, in my role as Minister of Justice and Attorney General, I'm responsible for ensuring that our justice system remains fair, relevant, and accessible to Canadians. It also involves, of course, overseeing a significant budget, with an eye to fiscal prudence and respect for taxpayers.

The Government of Canada introduced measures in connection with several criminal justice priorities. Our objective is to to make our streets and communities safer, and ensure that our justice system continues to bolster the safety of Canadians through our criminal justice laws, policies and programs.

Among them, Mr. Chair, we are pleased to announce that the Protecting Canadians from Online Crime Act has come into force. This law takes effect very soon and deals specifically with law enforcement online. This is a bill with which you and members of this committee are very familiar. I thank you for your work in this regard.

We've seen increased activity with regard to the subject of cyberbullying, which has had a devastating impact on many young people in Canada, affecting their reputations, their self-esteem, and their mental health. Also, it has directly contributed to the unfortunate decision that a number of young people have taken to end their own lives, young people like Rehtaeh Parsons, Amanda Todd, Todd Loik, and countless others, which is why the government acted to protect young people from malicious online behaviour, such as posting intimate images on the Internet, and the insidious and relentless harassment that often follows.

This is coupled with outreach efforts that are ongoing, and with education and the involvement of many people and organizations—such as the Canadian Centre for Child Protection in Winnipeg—which have directly contributed to the assistance of young people who are feeling cornered, hopeless, and in some cases desperate. Things such as GetHelpNow.ca and Cybertip.ca are areas in which young people are able to access information about how to remove offending material.

The Government of Canada also understands that Canadians expect their justice system to keep them safe, and we are committed to protecting Canadians from individuals who may pose a high risk to public safety. It's an obligation and a responsibility that we take very seriously.

Obviously, the evolving threat of terrorism is one those most troubling threats. In response to this risk, we introduced a bill earlier this year, which again is a bill you're familiar with, Bill C-51, to strengthen our existing anti-terrorism laws to ensure that they continue to respond appropriately to all forms of terrorism.

As you know, the bill is currently before the Senate. Among other things, such as enabling police to be more proactive in identifying radicalization and acting accordingly, this bill will fill a current gap in the Criminal Code by creating a new Criminal Code offence criminalizing the advocacy and promotion of terrorism, including those that would encourage attacks on Canadians.

Protecting victims of crime is another area in which we have been very active, as has this committee. We are moving to provide a more effective voice in our justice system as a key priority for our government. Victims of crime deserve to be treated with courtesy, compassion, and respect.

Mr. Chair, to that end, we introduced the Victims Bill of Rights. It received royal assent last month. This legislation enables the rights of victims of crime at a federal level and establishes statutory rights to information, protection, participation, and in some cases restitution. It also ensures that there is a complaint process to deal with breaches of those rights.

Again, I could mention others that this committee has been seized with, including Quanto's law, tougher penalties for child predators, and several other bills, for which I again express my appreciation for the diligence of this committee.

Mr. Chair, the Department of Justice is estimating net budgetary expenditures of $673.9 million in the year 2015-16, which is a net spending increase of $43.3 million from the 2014-15 main estimates. The net increase in spending illustrates the Government of Canada's commitment to maintaining, as mentioned, the integrity and the importance of our justice system in terms of accessibility to it through programs and personnel.

Mr. Chair, one especially important area of increased spending, totalling $1.9 million, represents the funding in support of non-legislative measures to address prostitution. In 2014, the Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons Act came into force. This uniquely Canadian model was informed by the results of government consultations, public consultations, on the subject of prostitution in the aftermath of the Supreme Court's decision in Bedford.

That consultation received more than 31,000 responses from Canadians, in addition to the in-person round tables. This was the largest consultation, I note, ever undertaken by the Department of Justice to date, and it recognized in the legislation the significant harms associated with prostitution. In a combination of Department of Justice money and Public Safety money, $20 million is being made available through a fund over five years for programs aimed specifically at helping those who sell sexual services to exit prostitution.

Mr. Chair, this is a compassionate and common-sense program that we are delivering, and we believe it will make a positive difference. The funding will provide services such as trauma therapy, addiction recovery, employment training, and financial literacy. It could also be used to support transitional housing, emergency safe houses, child care, and drop-in centres. I can tell you that there has been tremendous uptake on this program funding. In addition, there will be funding made available to help law enforcement agencies connect with those who want to leave prostitution and help them find emergency or long-term services, such as those I just mentioned.

The new resources demonstrate the government's commitment to meaningfully support those exploited through prostitution. We are ensuring that the laws address as well the serious harms associated with prostitution and deliver the protection that vulnerable Canadians and communities have come to expect and deserve from this government.

Mr. Chair, in February of 2015, the government announced that it had extended its support for the aboriginal justice strategy to include an additional $11.1 million for fiscal year 2016-17. The aboriginal justice strategy supports community-based justice programs across the country that have delivered results in reducing crime and victimization in aboriginal communities. There are approximately 275 aboriginal justice programs. There is outreach to over 800 aboriginal communities now, touching every province and territory, both on and off reserve, and in rural, urban, and northern communities.

Lowering recidivism and reducing the overrepresentation of aboriginal Canadians in our justice system is at the root. The programs are cost-effective and produce short- and long-term savings for Canadians by freeing up police, court, and correctional resources to address more serious crime. This is in addition to other programs such as the $25 million that is directly focused on the subject of murdered and missing aboriginal women.

Although there was an effort with respect to the main estimates—an increase of $43.3 million—there have also been decisions taken around the providing of legal services as part of our commitment to better and more effectively manage resources. Within the department, there was a review of the legal services provided to all government departments. As you know, we do a great deal of work on behalf of other departments and other agencies in government. As a result, we've identified immediate measures to reduce legal services demand and costs. There is another wave that is aimed specifically at simplifying and increasing access to legal services. It will be implemented within the coming fiscal year.

Over the next year, the department will also continue to work to meet the needs of the Government of Canada's policy objectives. They include enhancing legislation to hold offenders accountable; supporting initiatives to address such issues as security and terrorism, as I referenced earlier; working with other departments to address crime prevention; rehabilitation, treatment, and enforcement activities that relate to illicit drugs; and continuing our aboriginal justice issues. I would also add to that list the work that's done with young offenders. In particular, there are various branches of this youth justice initiative that deal with guns and gangs.

These initiatives will help the Department of Justice continue to build a system that improves access and meets the diverse needs of Canadians.

Mr. Chair, the Government of Canada is determined to protect the integrity of our justice system. We have reaffirmed that commitment through the level of funding allocated to the Justice portfolio.

The items presented by the Department of Justice for inclusion in the 2015-2016 main estimates will help to guarantee that we continue to have a fair society that respects our legislation and has an accessible, effective and equitable justice system.

Finally, the funding that the justice portfolio has received delivers results. I'm proud to say that, aided by very able officials, we'll continue to see that these funds are spent wisely while ensuring that Canadians have the fair, relevant, and accessible justice system that they expect.

I want to again thank you, Mr. Chair and members of this committee, for your diligence and determination in examining in many cases very complex bills and for the contribution you are making in that regard.

I look forward to taking your questions over this period. Similarly, I know that officials here, along with representatives from the Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions, from the Administrative Tribunals Support Service, and other officials will be attending, I believe, at the next meeting, on May 13, to answer any questions in those particular areas.

Thank you, Chair.

National Action Plan to Address Violence Against WomenPrivate Members' Business

April 28th, 2015 / 6:25 p.m.
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Conservative

Joy Smith Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB

Mr. Speaker, I heard over and over again talk about the root causes of inequality. During committee review of Bill C-36, we heard many compelling testimonies from a broad cross-section of people impacted by prostitution and human trafficking, and none more so than aboriginal women and children. There is a clear link between murdered and missing aboriginal women and prostitution and human trafficking.

During its testimony, the Native Women's Association of Canada was clear that it wanted Canada to target the buyers of sexual services, the men who buy sex from vulnerable aboriginal women and youth. In fact, NWAC stated that it wanted the bill to pass to tackle the demand and said that criminalizing pimps and buyers would be a huge step.

When we talk about the root causes of inequality, tackling the demand for prostitution and human trafficking is part of the steps we need to take to end the travesty of murdered and missing women. Why did the members, at every step of the bill, vote against it?

March 31st, 2015 / 6:15 p.m.
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Conservative

Rick Norlock Conservative Northumberland—Quinte West, ON

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I also recall the evidence, and I am not bringing in to disrepute the pieces of what the RCMP Commissioner and other police officers said, but when they were asked in general terms if this piece of legislation would be of assistance to them in carrying out their job and keeping us safe, there were emphatic in their positive response. The answer was yes.

For the edification of a lot of folks, we hear the Bar Association, etc.... I don't recall, in the nine years I've been here—and of course I am sure Mr. Easter will sling some really cool remark across, given his expert time as a politician here—I don't recall them ever coming before any committee I was on—I was on the justice committee and I've been on this committee for nine years—where they've never agreed with any piece of legislation we brought in. As a matter of fact, I think the best thing they ever said about one of the pieces of legislation was “Well, it really isn't needed; it's basically redundant and it isn't needed.”

I am going to remind folks of a few statements, and then I will tell you from where I extracted them and what bill they refer to:

[The] bill...is far-reaching legislation. In several respects, it calls into question many of the rights and freedoms we enjoy, some of them hard won, rights and freedoms that should not be abridged without good reason.

Then in their brief, they go on to talk about many things, and say how the piece of legislation was somewhat imperiling. They said:

Defining terrorism is not a simple task. Our courts have consistently refused to define the term.

We now know that they have now or that we have a definition now.

The proposed definition is too inclusive and unwieldy. It could catch activity that is not terrorist conduct, such as wildcat strikes or public demonstrations. We are also concerned about the potential for discriminatory impact.

I could go on and on. You know who said that, Mr. Chair? It was a submission on Bill C-36, the very same concerns that are expressed here. Bill C-36 has been upheld. The Supreme Court did require the government of the day to fix a few areas of it, but the basic bill was not changed significantly. That is what we hear again and again. It's the same people saying the same things about the same situation.

As my colleague, Ms. James, said that the world didn't come to an end. We have heard from witness upon witness—even witnesses from the other side have testified—that terrorism is evolving. They are changing. They know what the laws are, and they are adapting their methodologies to get around them. This bill just hopes to keep up with it—not get ahead of it, just keep up with it.

Thank you very much.

Zero Tolerance for Barbaric Cultural Practices ActGovernment Orders

March 12th, 2015 / 5:20 p.m.
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NDP

Tarik Brahmi NDP Saint-Jean, QC

Mr. Speaker, I listened carefully to the speech given by my colleague from Halifax.

She mentioned the specific case of Denmark, and I thank her for that. Criminal provisions that are too broad generally have the opposite effect to what was intended and, as a result, it is no longer possible to enforce a decision or a law.

Under the Conservatives, we have become accustomed to this sort of thing, whether it was with Bill C-10, which criminalizes the possession of more than six marijuana plants, or with Bill C-36, which criminalizes the purchase of sexual services. The consequence is that the tougher the criminal sentences we impose through these laws, the less viable it becomes to implement them, and therefore the police are much less likely to enforce them.

Can my colleague elaborate on the fact that further criminalizing something we condemn, in this case forced marriage, will only serve to ensure that women will not try to escape that situation because the consequences would be too severe?

February 26th, 2015 / 12:15 p.m.
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NDP

Rosane Doré Lefebvre NDP Alfred-Pellan, QC

Other large bills have already been studied. I think it is possible to do so by getting out of our environment. We usually meet here Tuesdays and Thursdays, from 8:45 a.m. to 10:45 a.m. Actually, it's standard for most committees to hold two two-hour meetings a week.

I've noticed that many other committees have managed to find common ground to study bills relatively quickly, while ensuring that as many witnesses as possible were heard and that as many meetings as possible were held.

I've spoken about this a bit, but I think it should be noted. I've looked at details in this bill, details that I didn't have in the beginning. Last summer, the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights studied Bill C-36, which followed on a Supreme Court decision on the legislative framework on prostitution in Canada. The Supreme Court had asked the House of Commons to study the legality of prostitution and to examine the issue as quickly as possible.

Thirteen meetings were held on the issue, and they were all held during the summer when the House wasn't sitting. There were a number of witnesses and several hours of meetings on the matter. The parties conducted this study in good faith because it was important to resolve the issue of the legislative framework on prostitution in Canada. Although it is a sensitive topic and the discussion may have been lewd at times, it was important for all the parties to study the bill in depth.

I remember because two of my very good colleagues sat on that committee, the hon. members for Gatineau and La Pointe-de-l'Île. This study was fairly significant. When we spend the summer in our ridings, we try to do our work as parliamentarians. That is when we can do it. We determined that this study was important and that we had to return to Ottawa. I don't have the exact information, but I think the committee sat for four or five days during the week. There were a number of meetings each day. If we think of that example, we can say that it's doable to hold several meetings in a short period of time.

I'll come back to the House calendar later. It could help us organize meetings in the evenings or on weekends, or even when the House isn't sitting. The calendar for the coming months indicates that it's possible. There are several weeks where we are going to return to our ridings. As the Conservatives mentioned as well, it is our duty as parliamentarians to ensure that we protect Canadians. I think we can make this sacrifice, be it in our personal schedules or in our schedules as MPs, when we meet with constituents in our ridings. It's a sacrifice worth making to ensure the bill is studied properly.

I think other colleagues of mine on this committee would be willing to make a compromise in this case. As has already been mentioned, the purpose of the sub-amendment proposed by the parliamentary secretary is to ensure that we hold eight meetings and that the clause-by-clause study be completed no later than March 31. That being said, we will have no choice but to sit in the evenings or on recess weeks to meet that deadline. If we are going in that direction, which is an opening by my Conservative colleagues, why not do our jobs as parliamentarians and conduct a full study?

Another study, which was on Bill C-23, was done in committee. If I'm not mistaken, it was done last year. We held some 20 meetings on the bill, which was put forward by the Conservatives and dealt with democratic reform. Some meetings took place at night, others were longer than normal. Some meetings lasted over four hours and others lasted three. The meetings usually run for two hours, but in this case, we had to deal with the large number of key witnesses. I think all the members of the committee would agree that the bill on democratic reform was large.

Furthermore, I'm wondering why the government chose to do more comprehensive studies of other bills. I don't want to minimize the importance of those ones, even though it was clear that all of us—and there's no point in denying it—had relatively diverse and differing opinions on Bill C-23. Among other things, it had to do with democratic reform and the legislative framework of prostitution in Canada, a rather sensitive debate. I'm wondering why so much interest and so many meetings were dedicated to these bills, while we are clearly not striking the same balance with the study of Bill C-51.

As I've mentioned already, I want to ensure that my colleagues and the people listening at home understand that we are willing to conduct the study in a fairly short period of time. We are truly willing to make concessions to ensure that the key witnesses and experts are indeed heard. Moreover, as we mentioned, we want to hear from representatives from the Canadian Security Intelligence Service and the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, as well as witnesses from academia and individuals interested in the matter because they are affected by the bill.

Our ideas come together very well. In fact, each side of the table will probably be happy to hear testimony from numerous witnesses on a panel and to have them answer our questions.

I think we can find some common ground here, in committee, and I am glad we can sincerely discuss this. I hope to be able to convince my Conservative colleagues of the importance of conducting a comprehensive study on this matter. Many pieces of legislation will be affected by Bill C-51. If it is passed, it will have a number of consequences. I think it is extremely important that experts explain to us what the impact of this bill may be on our way of life.

And we owe it to Canadians. In fact, it has been shown a number of times that most Canadians expect their government to tackle the terrorist threat and radicalization, which I think just makes a lot of sense. It's our job and the job of any good government.

But most Canadians do not know what's in Bill C-51. We've seen a number of reactions in recent weeks, especially in the media. There are many examples, but one of them is a letter signed by former Supreme Court justices and former prime ministers, both Liberal and Conservative. One of the things they expressed concerns about was one portion of Bill C-51.

That's just one example of many. In the last few days, the Assembly of First Nations raised many concerns about the impact of this bill. I think we owe it to those groups to conduct an in-depth study, and to Canadians who don't know exactly what Bill C-51 contains.

I think that this study and the proposal of my colleague Mr. Garrison to hold 25 meetings with the possibility of doing so relatively flexibly, outside normal meeting hours, just makes a lot of sense.

I'm aware of the urgency of acting, and I know it's common practice for the government party to rush to pass bills. I think we can find some common ground so that we can study the bill relatively quickly by putting a little water in our wine. The government wants the study done quickly. So let's set up some full-day meetings if necessary. It's important, and we were elected to do this.

When I was elected in 2011, the first thing I said to myself was that I needed to represent the people who elected me as best as possible, that I was going to try to make them proud of having elected me, and that I was going to do my best as a parliamentarian. There is no denying it, this work isn't always easy, but it's our duty. I would also say that it's a privilege to be able to put forward the best legislation possible. I think we can all agree on the fact that we are very privileged to be here to study a bill. Why not do it properly?

When I was researching various studies, be they bills or studies in committee, certain things intrigued me. For example, the Standing Committee on Public Safety and National Security recently did a study called The Economics of Policing. We did that study last year. We devoted 12 meetings to it. I don't want to minimize the excellent study we were able to do together despite our differences of opinion, but we still spent a lot of time in comparison to what the Conservatives want to give the committee to study Bill C-51.

I have another obvious example that isn't from this committee. I don't always follow the debates of the Standing Committee on Transport, Infrastructure and Communities. I should more often, because I was surprised to learn that they began a study on safety last year, and it's relatively interesting. So far, they have held 31 meetings in this study, and they aren't done yet. They're still studying it. So there's a lot of latitude we could have as parliamentarians and as a committee. I think it's important not to go full steam ahead and not to prevent certain key witnesses from appearing before the Standing Committee on Public Safety and National Security in the context of this study.

Just before I move on to another topic, many witnesses have themselves asked—without being invited because we haven't yet submitted our witness lists to the clerk—to appear and to testify on Bill C-51. These witnesses are from all walks of life and are addressing different aspects of the impacts of the Conservatives' anti-terrorism bill.

I don't think anyone here can say that these witnesses and experts aren't good witnesses. It will be extremely difficult to choose. If I could ask my colleagues opposite a question, I would ask them why they don't want these people to appear before the Standing Committee on Public Safety and National Security. Who do they not want to appear for the study of Bill C-51? As I mentioned, former Supreme Court justices, former prime ministers, First Nations leaders and the Privacy Commissioner of Canada have raised concerns. These people come from all backgrounds. They want to talk about the impact of the use of the Internet and social media.

These people, including former members of the Security Intelligence Review Committee, are concerned about the impact of this bill.

The parliamentary secretary mentioned that it would be worthwhile to hear from people from academia, which I greatly appreciated. Many individuals from several Canadian universities have asked to appear to discuss the impacts that this bill could have. These people are from various backgrounds, including constitutional law—

February 19th, 2015 / 11:45 a.m.
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Megan Walker Executive Director, London Abused Women's Centre

Thank you so much, Madam Chair.

I'm representing the London Abused Women's Centre, which is an agency in London, Ontario, that provides women who are being abused by their intimate partners and women in prostitution with counselling, support, and advocacy. During our last fiscal year, the agency provided 3,300 women with services and responded to more than 5,000 phone calls.

I think it's important to go back almost 19 years ago to March 9, 1996, when Arlene May was murdered by her partner, Randy Isles. He then killed himself. After that the coroner for Ontario held an inquest into her murder and his suicide. The jury met with 76 witnesses over 51 days. On July 2 the jury returned with 213 recommendations.

In its opening statement the jury wrote:

Until we, as a country stand up and declare a 'Zero Tolerance', this problem will not only continue, but in this jury's opinion, will escalate.

They further went on to say:

A combined effort must be made by our Government and Communities in order to put an end to family violence.

Finally, they stated:

Domestic violence cases are different than other criminal cases. In most situations the accused and the victim would normally never meet again. With domestic violence, the accused often must have contact with the victim due to property, support and child issues.

The criminal justice system will have to be changed to deal effectively with these differences.

We live in a society where gender inequality, while present in almost every single aspect of our lives, is largely made invisible by our silence. I'm often asked whether we can ever end men's violence against women. I do know one thing for certain. With certain actions that we take we can definitely shift the culture for future generations and reduce men's violence against women. I often compare it to the work being done by MADD Canada. Drinking and driving was once considered the norm. Now thanks to legislation, advocacy, education, and awareness it is socially unacceptable to get in a car when you've had a drink. I believe we can do the same for domestic violence.

We need three things. First of all we need to speak out, just as President Obama and former president Jimmy Carter have done. We need the government at all levels in Canada to take a stand and say, “Not on our watch. On our watch we have a zero tolerance to men's violence against women.”

We need to name the problem and understand its source. The source is patriarchy and women's inequality, and we need to set our minds to achieving women's full equality in society.

We also need action. We need an investment in violence prevention, and public education and awareness programs, starting in the very early years in school. At the London Abused Women's Centre, six years ago, we started a campaign known as Shine the Light on Woman Abuse. The goals of the campaign were to raise awareness about men's violence against women, increase the profiles of agencies that can provide service to these women, and shift the blame and shame abused women so often feel to the shoulders of the perpetrators. Finally, we wanted to show women that we stood in support and solidarity with them as they tried to live their lives free from violence and abuse. The campaign has been overwhelmingly successful, has now spread to 25 communities throughout Ontario, and service demands at the London Abused Women's Centre continue to increase by about 100% each and every year.

We also initiated a Value Women campaign, which was started as an alternative to what was called, and is called still, the SlutWalk, which we opposed. The goals of the Value Women campaign are to change the culture for women to one where women are equally valued. To do so we're asking that everybody recruit one person, who then will recruit five, who in turn will recruit five more.

Over the next five years we hope to reach five million individuals and call them champions for women.

The London Abused Women's Centre is part of a coordinated effort between the City of London and the London Coordinating Committee to End Woman Abuse. We partnered with the corporation of the City of London to develop a national, award-winning, collaborative program called “I Step Forward to End Violence and Abuse in my Community, Workplace, and Home”. It is a training program for all City of London employees to increase their understanding of men's violence against women and to increase the capacity to recognize and respond to situations of violence at home, at work, and in the community.

The London Abused Women's Centre is the lead agency for the Ontario woman abuse screening project, which has promoted collaboration between the woman abuse, sexual assault, mental health, and addiction sectors to provide trauma-informed services including routine universal screening for abuse and trauma, and to promote these as best practices across all sectors. The project has been successful in ensuring improved services, with fewer women having to live their lives alone, homeless or in isolation. In fact, that project has now spread throughout 141 communities across Ontario.

Finally, we need legislative change. We strongly recommend amending the Criminal Code to reflect the realities of those women being abused by their partners. We have great models in place where they have done that, including Sweden, where they have put into place the “gross violation of a woman's integrity” legislation. We've done a lot of research and are certainly happy to make that available to you.

Finally, I want to say that never in my life, and I've been at the London Abused Women's Centre for 18 years, did I ever think we would see the result of legislative advocacy. We saw that with the passing of Bill C-36, which we did support.

We're already seeing an increase in women seeking service from our agency. Legislative changes, along with advocacy, public awareness, and information can make a difference in the lives of women and their children.

February 19th, 2015 / 11:35 a.m.
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Leah Gazan Member of Wood Mountain Lakota Nation, and Faculty of Education, University of Winnipeg, As an Individual

Thank you, Madam Chairman.

It has been 44 years since the brutal murder of Helen Betty Osborne, in which the Aboriginal Justice Implementation Commission concluded that racism, sexism, and indifference resulted in the incomprehensible amount of time it took to solve her murder. We are now in 2015, and things are not getting better. This has been noted by Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International, and the former UN special rapporteur on indigenous rights, James Anaya, who unanimously noted a need for a national inquiry and immediate action to address the crisis levels of violence perpetrated against indigenous women and girls.

Such high levels of violence were also noted in the 2014 RCMP national operational report on missing and murdered aboriginal women, which affirmed an overrepresentation of murdered and missing indigenous women and girls, exceeding what they thought in previous estimates.

We represent 4.3% of the Canadian population, yet we represent 16% of all reported homicides. It is not safe to be an indigenous woman or girl in Canada right now. This is related to a number of factors, including high rates of poverty—more characteristic among indigenous women—and issues with the very systems that are supposed to uphold the safety of Canadian citizens.

The most recent examples are with our dear child Tina Fontaine, who passed through five systems who could have helped her before she was brutally raped, murdered, dismembered, and thrown into the Red River. These included the police, the hospital, and the child welfare system.

We also recently heard about the brutal attack and rape of Rinelle Harper. Although the police found her attackers, there were a number of cases involving murdered and missing indigenous women and girls that have not been solved, and authorities have been criticized for their lack of action.

We also heard about Kevin Theriault, who took an intoxicated indigenous woman who had been arrested out of her jail cell to his home. It was allowed by a senior police officer, who stated, “You arrested her, you can do whatever the f--k you want to do.” It took two other police officers going to his home to convince him to drop the woman off at her own house. He said he took her “to pursue a...relationship”.

We also heard about Lana Sinclair, who was brutally assaulted and beaten by a Winnipeg police officer on October 31, 2014, after they came to her house to respond to a call saying there was yelling. She was trying to hurry her son up to go trick-or-treating.

And let's not forget the Highway of Tears in British Columbia.

Indigenous women and children deserve the same fundamental human rights to affordable housing, safety, and food security. This is not happening in the city of Winnipeg, the province of Manitoba, or in Canada. Also, the very systems that are supposed to protect us now have their legitimacy and safety in question. In fact, in response to the latest RCMP report outlining the serious issue of murdered and missing indigenous women and girls in Canada, the Harper Conservative government made cutbacks on women's programs, including cutbacks on programs aimed at violence reduction in communities.

The constable who took the woman home to “pursue a...relationship” only received a seven-day suspension without pay and was allowed to return to work.

We constantly see pushback against a national inquiry into murdered and missing indigenous women and girls by the Conservative government in spite of recommendations coming from Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International, and the former special rapporteur on indigenous rights, James Anaya, who stated in his own words that there needed to be “greater and more effective action” to address the problem of murdered and missing indigenous girls, pointing towards the need for immediate action and a national inquiry.

This is not an indigenous issue. This is an issue for all Canadians who want to protect the fundamental human rights of all persons. We need a community-led and community-driven national inquiry the does not preclude immediate action now to ensure that the issue related to violence against indigenous women and girls is addressed aggressively.

I have the following recommendations.

First, I recommend that immediate action is taken to address the root causes of poverty that compromise safety and keep a disproportionate number of indigenous women living below the poverty line. According to the Canadian Women's Foundation's report on poverty, 36% of first nations, Métis, and Inuit women live in poverty, which they partially attributed to inadequate levels of education, lack of employment opportunities in local communities, and discrimination and sexism in the workplace.

Such barriers often result in women failing to have the economic means to access basic human needs, including safe and affordable housing, and food security. As a result, many women have been forced to remain in violent and abusive relationships and take up residence at an unsafe location, which often places both themselves and their children at risk.

The federal government needs to provide immediate funding for educational programs and training initiatives for indigenous women that support acquiring skills to participate in employment opportunities that assist with poverty reduction where they receive, at the very least, a living wage to ensure that women have access to safe and affordable housing, food security, and family stability.

Second, I recommend that the federal government review its economic action plan, which focuses on aggressive resource development at the expense of the safety afforded to indigenous women and girls. Victoria Sweet, in 2012 in her study on human trafficking, asserts that there is a direct correlation between the establishment of man camps that house workers in extractive industries and increased reports of violence against indigenous women and girls.

According to Sweet, male workers, often disconnected to the community and having little regard for local culture and traditions, are often hired. This has resulted in increased rates of sex trafficking and violence against indigenous women residing in these communities. She uses the example of the Bakken oil formation in North Dakota where there's been an increase in the numbers of forceable rape, prostitution, sex trafficking, and violence against indigenous women and girls, and notes that a similar phenomenon is occurring in Fort McMurray, Alberta, where violence against indigenous women and girls is rapidly on the rise.

Third, I recommend that the government invest moneys into economic development ventures that nurture the safety and economic well-being of women and girls, including providing small business grants for women and girls living on and off reserve.

Fourth, I recommend that there be a major increase in funding provided for training and prevention programs to support local communities and to facilitate community-driven initiatives to address the issue of sex trafficking, sexual violence, and all other forms of violence against indigenous women and girls.

Fifth, I recommend that the federal government reinstate the multi-millions of dollars that were cut from violence prevention and healing programs, including programs aimed at addressing the intergenerational impacts of residential schools, that were formally used to support indigenous families and communities in violence reduction. This is much more effective than rerouting money towards regressive bills like Bill C-36, which will further marginalize already vulnerable indigenous women and girls. This includes vital programs that were formally facilitated through organizations such as Sisters in Spirit and the Native Women's Association of Canada. I question why that funding was cut in the first place, given the acknowledgement by the international community that violence against indigenous women and girls in Canada is a crisis.

Sixth, I recommend that the government provide funding for a 24-7 resource centre in each province to provide a one-stop shop for families impacted by violence, including advocacy support, referrals, counselling, and cultural programming for families experiencing trauma.

Seventh, I recommend that the federal government provide funding programs to support services and programs for families and communities impacted by violence against indigenous women and girls. This should include funding to support families in their searching efforts and liaison workers to guide families in working with agencies that become involved when a person goes missing, such as police, child welfare services, and schools. It is not okay that families are forced to use their own limited income to look for a family member, often leaving them financially vulnerable and economically unstable.

Eighth, I recommend that the federal government immediately support a community-led, community-driven inquiry, and implement immediate actions to address the crisis of violence against indigenous women and girls. This is not an either-or discussion. The international community is watching. Canadians are watching. When the world is criticizing Canada for its lack of action, it is not the time to cut corners. Ending violence against indigenous women and girls requires investment. It should not be guided by either-or discussions. We need action now and we need a community-led, community-driven inquiry to make systemic changes to protect indigenous women and girls from dangers persistent within the very Canadian institutions that are supposed to protect us. People care. Canadians care.

I have witnessed care with grassroots initiatives such as the Drag the Red campaign, led by Bernadette Smith, where people came out to support her efforts in searching for the human remains of their loved ones.

I have witnessed such care in the current We Care campaign that I started in solidarity with Rain Hamilton, a non-indigenous woman who was appalled by the lack of action and level of violence perpetrated against indigenous women and girls. This campaign has been endorsed by the leader of the official opposition, Hon. Thomas Mulcair, who has shown his support for immediate action and a community-led, community-driven inquiry; the Aboriginal Peoples' Commission; Council of Canadians; the International Women's Forum on human rights; and many other organizations and individuals who have shown that they care.

I saw Canadians care at a vigil for beautiful Tina Fontaine, where over 2,000 Canadians came out, with an estimated 50% who were non-indigenous. They cared.

It is time for the federal government to come on board and show they care. We are waiting to be on their radar.

Thank you.

February 2nd, 2015 / 4:05 p.m.
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Conservative

Peter MacKay Conservative Central Nova, NS

Yes, very briefly, Mr. Chair.

In response to the question from Mr. Easter, there are programs and Minister Blaney mentioned a number of them. One that I'm aware of in Atlantic Canada is the New Leaf program. To be fair, this was a program that was also funded by the previous government, of which you were a member. It's aimed specifically at helping to rehabilitate the offender. Those program funding requests are reviewed annually across the country.

On the proactive side, the Get Cyber Safe program and some of the online sharing of information are things that I would always point to as well.

The sharing of information abroad is something that we as a country have to do more of. We need to be responsible for some of the perpetrators, sexual offenders, who go outside our country and go to jurisdictions where they don't have the same protections, the same programs, or they have laws that are lax, that allow for some of these sexual predators in our midst who have gone abroad and carried on this horrible practice.

There are aboriginal justice programs that are also in place to support both offenders and victims. I would point to our legislation, Bill C-36, that dealt with prostitution, which also has program funding in addition to the legislation.

This holistic approach you referred to is something that we're continuing.

January 29th, 2015 / 11:50 a.m.
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NDP

Mylène Freeman NDP Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC

Thank you, Madam Chair.

First, thank you all so much for the work you do, all of you, and thank you so much for being here.

Ms. Wright and Ms. Ryan, the legal group Pivot has found that Bill C-36 is going to have the effect of dramatically increasing violence against sex workers and their vulnerability to violence. Do you agree? Could you describe your view on this?

January 29th, 2015 / 11:20 a.m.
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Jenny Wright Executive Director, St. John's Status of Women's Council Women's Centre

Good afternoon, Madam Chair, and members of this committee. We thank you, and we are grateful for the invitation to address the committee.

In the development of any best practice, policy, legislation, or charter, we must never forget that violence against women is preventable. That fact must be the very foundation that any real change is built upon. Violence against women is yet to be considered preventable; instead, it is simply considered one of the many social ills that we must endure and manage. We need not look very far back in our own history to find a time when it was indeed acceptable.

Through the hard work of feminism in our country we are moving towards a culture in which these forms of interpersonal violence are now widely considered unacceptable. Great women doing great work have spoken before this committee. Best practices, new and emerging programs, research, and critical analysis have been brought forward with intelligence and with experience.

We suggest that women's organizations are all well versed in best practice and that we have been creating it and utilizing it for many decades. Evidence of this body of work can be found in the submissions to this committee, in scholarly research, in the endless reports we write, in university gender and social work classes, and around women's kitchen tables, yet women continue to die.

We have made great advancements in education and awareness both nationally and internationally. Policies and programs are implemented at all levels of government and within our communities and within our schools, yet the statistics that we are all intimately aware of are staggering.

Violence against women has been called the global epidemic of our times. It can lead one to think that there is nothing left to add to this discourse, but if we hold steadfast to the truth that violence against women is preventable, then there is much for us to discuss.

Best practice, education, and all of our combined work in the field will not be enough if we do not directly eliminate the root causes: gender inequality, long-standing neglect in upholding women's human rights, and decades of closures and funding cuts to front-line and advocacy women-led organizations.

Imagine if the programs and policies we created together were aimed at these root causes, at breaking down the systems that create gender inequality. Imagine if they were built on our existing human rights framework, and imagine if they were resourced sustainably so that women-led organizations could do what they have done well for many decades regardless of fluctuations in the economy, politics, and our laws.

If we re-envision how we conceive and develop best practice so that it eradicates gender inequality, then a national child care strategy, a national housing strategy, pay equity, access to women-centred health care, education, and a fair justice system is best practice. Further, the lack of these strategies in Canada is not only a causal factor, they are simultaneously the very barriers that prevent women leaving violence and living to their full potential.

This work, we cannot do alone. Women are protected in principle by the charter of human rights as individuals of this nation. These rights must apply to all women equally, including trans women, seniors, indigenous women, sex workers, disabled women, young women, and women new to our country. Women's organizations struggle daily to keep women safe in communities where there are no lawyers, no social workers, no courthouses or doctors, where women are left dangerously vulnerable and without access to basic supports. This must be viewed as a denial of their basic human rights.

Still, Canada has signed on to numerous conventions protecting and advancing the rights of women, including CEDAW, where article 3 states that the convention gives positive affirmation to the principle of equality by requiring state parties to take “all appropriate measures, including legislation, to ensure the full development and advancement of women, for the purpose of guaranteeing them the exercise and enjoyment of human rights and fundamental freedoms on a basis of equality with men.”

Yet women continue to die. Why? We have not applied these basic human rights to our work in ending violence against women. If anti-violence work were built on our existing human rights frameworks, then access to this that fosters safety and quality of life should not and could not be denied women, no matter their geographical or social location.

Years of funding cuts and closures, and silencing of women's organizations are in themselves a pervasive form of violence against women. Federal policy must act to strengthen women's organizations and to secure sustainable funding, so they do not continue to be casualties of the fluctuations in our economy, political agendas, and our laws.

Our Province of Newfoundland and Labrador is a great example of this double bind. Dropping oil prices leads to dramatic job loss, job losses lead to a dramatic rise in domestic violence. Already overburdened we scramble to cope with the increased need for services, while simultaneously being told that because of falling oil prices there will be no increase in funding, and there are silent whispers of impending cuts that will affect our work.

The economic boom that arrived at our doorstep 10 years ago created a dramatic rise in women who are exploited by the sex trade, and the new prostitution bill, Bill C-36, has left us scrambling to provide supports and safety for a population left vulnerable and moving deeper and deeper underground.

This scenario plays out time and time again in our work, leaving us with band-aid solutions, patchwork support, and never the time nor the resources to tackle the fundamental issues of gender inequality and justice, human rights, and advocacy. It is time that we recognize and redress the fact that diminished or no access to basic services because of chronic underfunding places women's lives at risk and by extension their children and by extension our communities.

This is a very real cause of continued violence against women, and it is preventable. We need the indelible human rights of all women to be upheld in law and in policy in their entirety. We need long-promised and undelivered national strategies to target and eradicate structures and social norms that perpetuate gender inequality. We need sustainable resources to do what we do well—advocate and provide services, supports and resources to women, freely and without threat.

There must be a shift in how we view gender inequality and how we eradicate it together as a nation. Gender inequality is simultaneously inherent to and produced by our institutions. We must shift our focus to improving our nation's ability to respond to the needs of all Canadian women. Until our Canadian institutions and our social systems prioritize and nurture the unimaginable and untapped potential of women in this country, we fear we will be living in a state of never-ending, managed violence.

In closing, we need to recognize that the situation is dire, but that the future need not be bleak. The real solutions to the issues already exist. Symbolically, it is there in the human rights framework that we uphold in this country. Practically, it is in the work of those on the ground, our women's centres, our female-serving organizations. The missing ingredients are the social and political will and sustainable resources necessary to create a coordinated national strategy. If we as a country can commit to these things, then we have not only created best practice, we have built the very foundation to prevent violence against women.

Thank you.

December 9th, 2014 / 10:05 a.m.
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As an Individual

Marion Little

I think that one of the critically important pieces is that when any policy or law affects marginalized women, whether they're sex workers, aboriginal women, Inuit, first nations, Métis, women who have recently immigrated, refugees, or those with temporary status—whichever group it is—that group has to be consulted, particularly through peer-to-peer points of contact with that group. Then, the national research consensus on best practices and on the implications of various policy applications have to be very seriously considered. When we neglect both of those pieces, we end up with the kind of example, the very small example, that I gave about what happens when, among the very excellent police officers we have across Canada, one or two in each region are unethical. Those one or two literally decimate the possibility of sex workers or first nations women or whoever engaging with that particular authority. The same situation happens within the health system and within social services: one or two unethical people in positions of power and authority in each region decimate the capacity for marginalized women to access resources in an equitable way, which the rest of us assume everybody can access, without having to deal with exploitation.

So those consultations are important, and funding for the agencies is, of course, critically important. Basing law on research and information is important, and then, of course, we need prevention training for abuse prevention generally to shift the culture of violence. In Canada, we're looking at embedded issues around racism and classism and things like that, which are affecting people in ways that most of us don't imagine.

I'm not sure what to say. The pieces about doing those kinds of things are in front of us. I think these issues don't need to be divisive. In the case of Bill C-36, for example, had consultations involving women's agencies across Canada been more comprehensive, those conversations at the ground level would have led to more consensus at the table, in Parliament. We need to look at these issues as health issues. When H1N1 infected 10% of the population, we created the Public Health Agency; we created an office; we created a contingency fund. This is sustainable. It's ongoing. Violence against women is a threat involving 50% of the population. It's a far greater health and justice threat than any health epidemic that we've faced has been. We need to look at implementing the kinds of best practices we already know exist through having responded to epidemics within the health system.

December 9th, 2014 / 9:55 a.m.
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Liberal

Kirsty Duncan Liberal Etobicoke North, ON

Thank you.

Ms. Little, could you comment on how Bill C-36 will impact on the safety of women?

December 9th, 2014 / 8:45 a.m.
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Marion Little As an Individual

Thank you, Madam Chair and members of the committee. Thank you so much for your invitation.

Please permit me to open and close with poems that invoke some of the voices of the many women and girls I’ve been privileged to serve over the years.

The first is from Jamie Jardine.

Wounds
I stand naked
Looking in the mirror
What do I see?
Not the flawless woman I so yearn to be
But a damaged girl permanently scared,
Scarred from unwanted abuse that will not fade,
No matter what I do.
Every time I look, I’m reminded of where,
And from whom they came.
I’ve stopped trying to change,
To cover or erase these scars.
I’ve stopped explaining these dark wounds.
These are my tattoos.

There are so many issues I would love to speak about with you today. Drawing on my experience, I will focus exclusively on the marginalized women who are many times more likely to be targeted by violence than anyone else. My primary point is that marginalized women require sustainably funded, tailored, responsive, unconditional peer-to-peer programs informed directly by their needs and the context in which they live.

I'm so nervous; I can hear my voice shaking. Pardon me.

This core best practice is recognized as the most accessible, effective, and cost-efficient way to increase wellness while decreasing marginalization and experiences of violence. Marginalized women are more likely to participate in peer-to-peer programs than in mainstream programs. Disclosure is more likely in trusted peer settings, making them critical for response, liaison with police, trauma recovery, and violence prevention.

My secondary point is that the best practice in policy development and drafting new law related to marginalized women requires that these peer groups be comprehensively consulted, alongside the national academic research consensus on the issues.

In the B.C. missing women inquiry report “Forsaken,” the Honourable Wally Oppal defines marginalization as “the social process by which individuals and groups are relegated to the fringe of society” and “systematically blocked from rights, opportunities and resources that are normally available in a society”.

It is related to the “endangerment and vulnerability to predation” of marginalized people, “creating the climate in which the missing and murdered women were forsaken”.

He says the following:

Three overarching social and economic trends contribute to the women’s marginalization: retrenchment of social assistance programs, the ongoing effects of colonialism, and the criminal regulation of prostitution and related law enforcement strategies.

According to the Ending Violence Association of BC, most women and children killed or seriously injured by domestic or sexual violence in recent years were members of marginalized groups. Please see endingviolence.org. They identified gaps regarding specialized, domestic, and sexual violence services for marginalized women, in particular aboriginal women; immigrant women, including refugees and migrant workers; women with disabilities; women with mental health or addictions issues; women in rural areas; impoverished women; lesbians and transsexual women; and sex workers. And I would add the service gap for youth who are homeless or at risk of homelessness.

According to Statistics Canada, women aged 15 to 24 are most commonly targeted by all forms of violence. This, combined with marginalization, makes it difficult to grasp the enormity of the issue, particularly since marginalized women are often reluctant to call police and more likely to access informal supports.

As you know, aboriginal women—first nations, Métis, and Inuit women—experience higher levels of violence and are disproportionately represented in the number of missing and murdered women across Canada. They have a heightened vulnerability to violence simply because they live in what the Honourable Wally Oppal calls “a society that poses a risk to their safety”. The report also said, “In British Columbia and around the world, vulnerable and marginalized women are exposed to a higher risk of violence including sexual assault, murder and serial predation.”

The B.C. Missing Women Commission of Inquiry says that it’s imperative we realize the broader forces of marginalization and societal dismissal and abandonment that contributed to the vulnerability of the women. That dismissal and abandonment also shaped police response. While aboriginal and sex worker groups have identified valid concerns about the B.C. inquiry, it also contains very thoughtful recommendations. I commend it for your consideration.

Please review the executive summary of the Honourable Wally Oppal's report, “Forsaken”, via the website of the Attorney General of B.C. I also invite you to review the October 1, 2014, letter to Parliament from the Secretary General of Amnesty International, which is available on their website.

The Supreme Court has recognized street-based sex workers as some of the most marginalized members of society. The first nationwide research on sex work is emerging just now from the University of Victoria Centre for Addictions Research. It offers new—and what some may find surprising—findings. Understanding the reality of sex work here is central to developing laws, policies, practices, and supports that will actually prevent violence and increase safety for all of us. Please see their website at understandingsexwork.com.

Peer-to-peer supports are a core best practice for marginalized groups. For example, PEERS Victoria and sister agencies across Canada provide rare, unconditional, and trusted peer-to-peer supports for current and past sex workers when they are distressed, experience violence, or seek help. Sadly, all are grossly underfunded.

The respectful relationship between PEERS Victoria, the sex workers they serve, and the Victoria police special victims unit routinely leads to the arrest and jailing of violent offenders, increasing public safety. Support for marginalized groups positively impacts the whole community.

Unfortunately, it takes only a few unethical officers to destroy that trust and the related benefits. Sex workers and research tell us that police are among their clients, and that there are unethical officers who are violent or abuse their power to coerce sex. It is a common enough experience for sex workers in Canada, such that they tend to distrust police as a group. The reality of unethical officers harming or exploiting sex workers poses a certain dilemma under Bill C-36, where those same officers now hold increased power over sex workers and an increased reason to silence them.

Education across the justice system about marginalized women is necessary to increase reporting, ensure effective responses, protect the vulnerable, and prevent violence. Ongoing abuse prevention training and strong policies to address abuse of power within government institutions, such as health, justice, and social services, are also necessary, because marginalized women tend to distrust them due to routine experiences that range from discourtesy and dismissal to exploitation and violence.

Sexual exploitation of minors is not sex work. It's child abuse. It and trafficking are separate issues and direct acts of violence with specific laws. However, laws are not enough to prevent these atrocities. As a primary prevention, we must provide stable housing, food security, and nurturing supports for the over 65,000 youth in Canada who are currently homeless or at risk of homelessness—see raisingtheroof.org.

Violence against marginalized women and girls is directly linked to our child poverty rates and our housing crisis—our home crisis, actually. If we're serious about violence prevention, we will mitigate the factors that increase marginalization at individual, relational, community, and societal levels. This requires accessible stable housing, legal aid, food security, and clean water. It requires enough affordable child care spaces, addiction treatment beds, and transitional shelters, as well as programs—particularly peer-to-peer programs—that support trauma recovery, skill development, and community building. We must invest in increased resilience and empowerment.

If we tolerate violence against marginalized women, sex workers and aboriginal women being the starkest examples, then we allow that to stand as a threat to all women, a graphic threat that violence is tolerated against any of us, depending only on circumstance and social whim, and that neither our laws nor our rights and freedoms as Canadians will protect us from it. Socially condoned or ignored violence against marginalized women is an open attack on every woman, an open attack on the justice system, and an open attack on the rights and freedoms of Canadian citizens.

I will close with one final, very brief poem from a poet at PEERS, who uses the metaphor of a maze full of dead ends contrasted against a labyrinth that is one circling contemplative path:

Puzzle
My life is a maze.
I’m always running into a dead end
No matter which way I turn,
Even when I take the next right step.
I strive for my life to be a labyrinth;
To go in, and no matter which way I go,
It’s the right path to that place
Where I am always centred.

Thank you.

Violence Against WomenStatements By Members

December 5th, 2014 / 11:10 a.m.
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Conservative

Joy Smith Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB

Mr. Speaker, tomorrow is Canada's National Day of Remembrance and Action on Violence Against Women, which commemorates the 14 young women who were brutally murdered at École Polytechnique in 1989.

Women and girls continue to face violence and harassment in their homes, schools, and workplaces, as well as online and on the streets.

Women's equality advocates identify prostitution and human trafficking as two of the most serious forms of violence against women. It is fitting, therefore, that Bill C-36 will come into force tomorrow. This is a historic moment for Canada.

Under Bill C-36, Canada's laws will uphold the equality of women as human beings, not objects to be bought and sold. It will seek to end the violence against women that is inherent in prostitution and human trafficking, tomorrow and every day of the year.

Let us remember the victims, and let us be resolved to continue to stand against violence against women in all its forms.

November 27th, 2014 / 3:35 p.m.
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Central Nova Nova Scotia

Conservative

Peter MacKay ConservativeMinister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Colleagues, thank you for the opportunity to speak before you today.

I am pleased to be this afternoon with this esteemed committee to answer questions regarding items in supplementary estimates (B) as Minister of Justice and Attorney General.

This is my 50th appearance before a parliamentary committee. Joining me today are deputy minister William F. Pentney, associate deputy minister, Pierre Legault, and, senior assistant deputy minister of policy, Donald K. Piragoff.

This has been a busy session. We have three bills that have passed through Parliament. We have three more that are approaching that stage, six in fact when we consider some that are just beginning the process, six or seven more that are in the queue, and 13 private members' bills.

As Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada, I am tasked with helping ensure a fair, relevant and accessible justice system for all Canadians.

A continuing priority and challenge for all of us involved in the justice system is to ensure that all Canadians have access to justice in a timely and meaningful way. I believe this is certainly a sentiment shared by you and participants in the justice system across the country.

Governments in all jurisdictions have obligations in tackling this through multiple initiatives. At the federal level we have been providing ongoing funding for programs to provinces and territories to promote access to justice. Mr. Chair, colleagues, the Department of Justice funded and supported the work of the national Action Committee on Access to Justice in Civil and Family Matters, which brought together major stakeholders throughout our system.

The DOJ continues to promote access to family justice by working closely with its provincial and territorial colleagues. I would share with you that I recently attended the annual FPT meeting this September, and it is certainly a sentiment shared by my provincial and territorial colleagues that we continue to improve on this system. People are very motivated, as is the bench.

To that end we've renewed the funding, the grants and contributions available for supporting families experiencing separation and divorce initiatives, for three years. With this renewed funding provinces and territories can access up to $15.5 million annually for the next three years for family justice services that include mediation and support enforcement services. Non-governmental organizations can also access up to $0.5 million annually to help them inform separating and divorcing families about family law. This is a big issue, particularly given the number of unrepresented persons now in our system.

Funding for federal activities under this initiative was also renewed for two years. These activities support the department's mandate with respect to federal family laws and provide legally mandated support enforcement and divorce registry services to provinces and territories, and to all Canadians.

This initiative funds many services and projects that make it easier for separating and divorcing families to access the family justice system, as well as ensure that parents comply with their obligations under family law. An evaluation this year concluded that the initiative achieved its objectives in promoting access to the family justice system for Canadian families. I am pleased to see that we are having measurable and tangible progress, and we hope to replicate this across the entire system.

In addition to promoting access to the family justice system, our government's efforts also include two major initiatives funded under the Roadmap for Canada's Official Languages 2013-2018 to develop and enhance the vitality of official language minority communities and promote linguistic duality in the justice system.

The Department of Justice also promotes access to justice through our justice partnership and innovative program, which provides resources for projects that address access to justice, family violence, public legal education and information, and violence against aboriginal women and girls. This department plans to transfer $1.26 million earmarked for contributions from this program towards grants.

Mr. Chairman, I know you follow this type of activity very closely. This transfer is a positive move that will reduce the administrative burden on the public legal information organizations and non-governmental organizations. Ultimately, it will make it easier to access funding using a high-risk based approach and ensure that the justice system remains accessible, efficient, and effective.

On the issue of legal aid, at the federal-provincial-territorial ministers meeting I referenced, my colleagues and I reiterated our commitment for continued collaboration to strengthen legal aid and the justice system for Canadians. In these supplementary estimates, the total annual federal funding has increased by $14.4 million for 2014-15 to 2016-17. This comprises funding for immigration and refugee legal aid, court-ordered counsel in federal prosecutions, and program operations.

Part of ensuring access to justice is ensuring that Canadians are protected and that our streets and communities remain safe.

Our government is moving forward with several criminal justice initiatives in order to keep our citizens safe. It is indeed the foremost responsibility of any government.

One of these initiatives is the aboriginal justice strategy, which was renewed in budget 2014 at $22.2 million over two years. This program, operated on a cost-shared basis with provinces and territories, supports community-based justice programs that have been proven to be effective in reducing crime and providing alternatives to incarceration for less serious crimes in appropriate circumstances.

We also continue to work through the Department of Justice's youth justice fund to encourage a youth justice system that is fair and effective. This fund offers grants and contributions to various organizations. While demand for grants to support small-scale projects has declined in recent years, the demand for contributions to support multi-year pilot projects continues to increase. I can give you a number of examples, particularly in urban settings: the guns and gangs initiative, drug treatment, mental health treatment, and, particularly important for prairie provinces but I would suggest across the country, programs aimed at addressing the effects of fetal alcohol syndrome disorder. To meet the growing demand of these requests, Mr. Chairman, we are transferring $600,000 from the fund's grants funding to contribution funding, so that it is better able to meet the current needs of our partners.

Another one of these initiatives to keep our citizens safe was in response to the Bedford decision. Members here will recall when the Supreme Court struck the three major sections on prosecution last December. The government took steps to protect our communities, vulnerable people, and those involved in this inherently dangerous activity by focusing police resources on the consumers and the perpetrators.

I'm pleased to say that Bill C-36, the Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons Act, will come into force next week. I want to take this opportunity to thank this committee for their attention and the fact that you reconvened the committee over the summer months to focus on this important issue. Through this bill we're ensuring that the laws protect those who sell their sexual services and prosecute those who exploit them. This bill will protect communities as well from the harms of prostitution, and reduce, we hope, the demand for sexual services.

In addition, the justice and public safety departments will be providing support for exit strategy programming for those involved in prostitution. That amount, as you know, is $20 million. There will be more to put forward in the coming days about how to enhance such things as education, job training, helping with child care, counselling, and mental health and addictions. All of these figure prominently in this complex problem.

Mr. Chairman, our government has also continued to move forward on new initiatives that ensure that victims of crime are treated with the courtesy, compassion, and respect they deserve. For example, over the past seven years, we have designated more than $140 million to give victims a more effective voice through initiatives delivered by the Department of Justice. This amounts to money allocated to the Department of Justice's victims fund, a grants and contributions program that provides funding to provinces, territories, and non-governmental organizations whose projects, activities, and operations support the objectives of this fund.

We also work closely with other departments; Public Safety, as I mentioned, but certainly Labour and the minister responsible for the Status of Women.

Mr. Chair, other initiatives include, as you are aware, the victims ombudsman's office, which is key to enhancing victims...and include a strategy of $10 million to support the child advocacy centres set up across the country.

I can table more information with respect to these advocacy centres, but suffice it to say that this is, I think, one of the most compassionate initiatives we have undertaken in decades, which goes directly to the effort to lessen the harms that inevitably flow from child sexual abuse. This work, which is being done in some 22 centres now across Canada, is having a profound impact of improvement upon our justice system, vis-à-vis this devastating problem of child abuse. In my time as Minister of Justice, the child and youth advocacy centres are the most impressive initiative I have seen.

Mr. Chair, other important priorities for the government for protecting Canadians include combatting impaired driving, still the number one cause of criminal death in Canada. To that end, I remain committed to bringing forward legislative initiatives to modernize and strengthen impaired and drug-impaired offences as they pertain to provisions of the Criminal Code.

In conclusion, all of this is to say, Mr. Chair and colleagues, that the money that has been allotted to our department has been well used and is accounted for.

To conclude, I would like to thank you and your committee members for the important work you do, and for giving me the opportunity to make these opening remarks.

The funding that the Department of Justice portfolio has received has brought results for Canadians, and I will do my utmost to ensure that these funds will continue to be spent wisely.

I now look forward to taking your questions.

Thank you.

November 27th, 2014 / 9:05 a.m.
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Lisa Steacy Representative, Canadian Association of Sexual Assault Centres

First I would like to thank the committee for inviting the Canadian Association of Sexual Assault Centres/L'Association canadienne des centres contre les agressions à caractère sexuel, which I'll refer to as CASAC, to present today.

Founded in 1975, CASAC member centres continue to provide front-line crisis support and intervention to women who have experienced men's violence, from Halifax to Vancouver, in English and French, in urban centres and rural communities.

One of the crucial functions of CASAC is to speak publicly for the thousands of women who tell us their stories on confidential phone lines. Every woman who calls a CASAC centre takes the risk of speaking honestly and deliberately about the violence she has experienced. I would be doing these women a disservice if I did not speak similarly here today.

Any discussion of promising practices to prevent violence against women requires an honest and deliberate definition of what exactly we are trying to prevent. The phrase “violence against women” elides a fact that must be central to this study, namely that men are responsible for the continued rape, battering, harassment, incest, and prostitution of women.

December 6 this year will mark 25 years since 14 women at L'École Polytechnique were separated from male teachers and peers and then gunned down by one man specifically because they were women. There is still no public or private place in Canada, other than rape crisis centres and transition houses, in which women are completely safe or free from the threat of men's violence.

Battering husbands or ex-husbands in B.C. have been responsible for attempting to murder women, and in some cases their children, in their homes on 17 separate occasions so far this year.

In May, the RCMP confirmed 1,181 cases of missing and murdered aboriginal women, deaths and disappearances for which men were overwhelmingly responsible. Since then, men's lethally sexist and racist attacks on aboriginal women have continued unabated. We know that at least Rinelle Harper in Winnipeg and Marlene Bird in Saskatchewan were sexually assaulted, brutally beaten, and left for dead by small groups of men in public places.

In February, at least two male athletes and students from the University of Ottawa's hockey team raped a young woman in Thunder Bay. Last year female students at UBC and St. Mary's were oriented to their university experience with male-led chants promoting their rape.

Rehtaeh Parsons was raped by young men, and young men continue to attack her by creating and distributing pornographic images of that rape.

The buyers of sex who will soon be criminalized by Bill C-36 for the exploitation of women in prostitution in brothels and on the streets are overwhelmingly men.

More than 330 women RCMP officers and employees have exposed that they were systematically sexually harassed on the job by their male colleagues.

Women have come forward and gone on the record to say that CBC's Jian Ghomeshi used his power and status to attack a number of women he worked with and dated.

These recent and highly publicized cases of men's violence against women echo what we hear when we respond to women who call the crisis lines, from the women who reveal and resist the routine and myriad acts of violence that enforce and exploit women's unequal civic, political, economic, and social power in relation to men. The inequalities of poverty and racism further compound the vulnerability to and effects of men's violence on impoverished women, women of colour, and aboriginal women.

If any practice or policy to prevent violence against women is to be truly promising, it must be grounded in and tested against the promise of women's right to be free from all forms of sexist discrimination and violence. This promise is enshrined in the Charter of Rights and Freedoms and articulated in international instruments, including CEDAW, to which Canada is a signatory.

I'll take today's opportunity to reiterate two of the elements of policy change on violence against women that CASAC has advocated for, for decades: first, the responsibility of the criminal justice system to prevent and respond to men's violence, and second, the need for the government to invest in and actively and respectfully consult with the independent women's movement.

Since CASAC is a coalition of rape crisis centres and time is limited, I'll focus on criminal law responses to sexual assaults.

Past improvements to Canada's criminal laws and policy on sexual assaults have been made because of the demands of women and women's groups that criminal law protect their right to equality by preventing and sanctioning the violence that is perpetrated by men against them. Two examples of the hard-won achievements are the criminalization of rape in marriage in the Criminal Code and Supreme Court articulations of the legal obligation to obtain explicit and ongoing consent to sexual activity.

Sexual assault is a deeply gendered crime. Women are the most likely victims of this crime and the least likely to commit it. The criminal justice response to sexual assault is abysmal. Only 0.3% of rapes committed result in a criminal conviction. Statistically speaking, the criminal justice response to rape is one of virtual impunity.

Since the 1970s the statistic that 70% of women who report all forms of sexist violence to front-line anti-violence workers do not engage the police has remained steady. Less than 10% of sexual assaults are reported to the police. Several of the cases that I mentioned earlier have fiercely reignited a public discussion of and debate about the way that the criminal justice system routinely fails women who have been raped. The hashtag “been raped never reported” allowed women to say on social media what rape crisis workers and raped women have known and said publicly and privately for years: women do not and cannot rely on Canadian authorities to live up to their responsibility to enforce the laws that criminalize sexual assaults and violence against women.

In the Ghomeshi case, women came out in a significant number to expose the actions of a violent man and to explain why they did not report these attacks to the police. A tremendous amount of media attention was paid and in turn public pressure was exerted. Feminists reiterated our criticism of the failures to apply criminal law to levy consequences against men in cases of violence against women. Yesterday Jian Ghomeshi was arrested for and charged with several counts of sexual assault and one count of choking a woman. This demonstrates that when there's substantial political will, police and the criminal justice system can and do have the power to swiftly investigate and lay charges when a man attacks a woman.

Rehtaeh Parsons reported her rape to the police before it was public knowledge and national news. After her suicide, pressure from her grieving parents and an outraged public, including feminists, for a response from the criminal justice system mounted. Earlier this week two young men pleaded guilty to charges of making and distributing child pornography in that case. The creation and distribution of the images of her attack have been acknowledged as a crime. No one has been charged with the attack itself.

Rape is ultimately the responsibility of the men who commit it. The inadequacy of the criminal justice system's response to sexual assault provides one stark example of the systemic failure to adequately prevent and respond to the injustices committed against women, both individually and collectively. Criminal laws contain the promise that men will be held accountable for the violence that they commit. Accountability through assiduous application of existing criminal law would demonstrate that the government is committed to preventing the rampant continuation of these crimes.

CASAC research has shown that when a woman is provided with information, accompaniment, and advocacy from a rape crisis centre, her slim chances of having a proper police investigation done and charges laid increase.

Rape crisis centres in Canada were formed in a period when women across the country were uniting to challenge and transform the status quo of women's lives. They were established in the 1970s with, by, and for women of different ages, races, classes, and backgrounds who were taking direct action against men's violence. Rape crisis centres have received no operational funding from the federal government. In British Columbia, where I live and work, no rape crisis centre, including the one I answer the lines at, receives operational funds from the provincial government.

The increased impoverishment of women and the systematic dismantling of social welfare systems means that the remaining unfunded independent women's centres are pressured to tend to all the effects of women's desperate inequality, including hunger, homelessness, addiction, and mental health. Yet CASAC centres continue to connect women to the meagre supports to which they are entitled, to services, and to each other. They connect women's experiences of and responses to men's violence to advocacy campaigns for specific reforms and systemic social change locally, provincially, and nationally.

In 2012, the largest ever global study on violence against women concluded:

The autonomous mobilization of feminists in domestic and transnational contexts—not leftist parties, women in government or national wealth—is the critical factor accounting for policy change.

The development of policy and practices to prevent violence against women will be ineffective without a substantial investment in and incomplete without an active and respectful consultation with the independent women's movement.

The piecemeal projects proffered and funding promised so far in these hearings by the federal government are not an adequate substitute for a substantive and sustained commitment from all departments at all levels of government to preventing and eliminating women's civil, economic, social, and political inequality.

Thank you.

Tougher Penalties for Child Predators ActGovernment Orders

November 21st, 2014 / 10:45 a.m.
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NDP

Tarik Brahmi NDP Saint-Jean, QC

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to begin my speech on Bill C-26, An Act to amend the Criminal Code, the Canada Evidence Act and the Sex Offender Information Registration Act, to enact the High Risk Child Sex Offender Database Act and to make consequential amendments to other Acts.

The Conservative government does not have a very good record to start with. We can look at Bill C-10, a piece of legislation that substantially amended the Criminal Code. When that bill passed, the Barreau du Québec said, “Canadian justice is in mourning [and the passage of Bill C-10] is a setback for Canadian criminal law”. Such is the Conservatives' record on changes to the Criminal Code.

If we look at this from a financial perspective, as I was saying earlier, the Quebec minister of intergovernmental affairs announced two days ago that the cost of incarcerating offenders has increased by 11%. That expense was passed on to Quebec without the federal government assuming any of the additional cost, which ultimately was created by criminalizing certain elements that were not criminal before and likely could have been resolved either through prevention or by providing support to the people concerned, to ensure that they did not reoffend.

Finally, we have a different vision of the fundamentals of society than the Conservatives do. We want to live in a safer society, with less crime, and we want to be able to prevent crime before it happens. That is not the case for the Conservatives, who always adopt repressive policies and think that imposing longer prison sentences will resolve the problems associated with crime in Canada.

That brings to mind something that the member for Gatineau often says. When an offender is about to commit a crime, he does not bring the Criminal Code with him to read up on what the maximum penalty will be, whether there is a mandatory minimum sentence and whether the trial judge will be able to have him serve his sentence in the community or not. That way of thinking is is completely absurd and out of touch with reality.

The crime rate is dropping as a result of a number of factors, including demographics. The population is aging so crime is dropping, which makes sense in any society. If we want to reduce crime, we need to invest in prevention and in rehabilitation when a crime has been committed. However, the ideal would be not to have criminals or crime.

With this bill, the Conservatives are falling into the same repetitive cycle of behaviour that they always fall into, which involves a simplistic and very election-minded approach. This approach consists of convincing Canadians that they are going to do away with crime by imposing longer sentences, criminalizing activities that were not crimes before and imposing minimum sentences, or in other words, by not putting any faith in the justice system.

One of the methods used by the Conservatives involves playing on the public's frustration. It is true that we are all sometimes frustrated when criminal convictions are not in line with what we personally think they should be. We may be angry about verdicts that we think are too soft considering the seriousness of the offence. However, the Conservatives always play on people's emotions and hope that they will not have any faith in the justice system.

Along the same lines as imposing mandatory minimum sentences or increasing existing minimums, the Conservatives also discredit the judiciary and undermine judges' ability to evaluate criminals' personal situation and ability to reintegrate into society. They play on people's sense of fear, as they do with other issues, especially safety-related issues.

We will clearly support this bill at second reading, because it contains a number of worthwhile provisions that should be studied. My colleagues on the Standing Committee on Justice will examine the validity of each of these provisions. However, we still need to remember that our objective should be prevention and that the federal government, which is responsible for enforcing and developing the Criminal Code, should also assume the financial costs associated with creating these new crimes.

One recent example was Bill C-36. Unfortunately I did not have an opportunity to speak to that bill because the Conservative government yet again limited the time allocated for members of the House to debate this bill. It was the same thing. Bill C-36 created a criminal offence that had never before existed in Canada's history, in order to give the public the impression that the government was fixing a criminal problem. The problem was one that had never existed before. This bill takes us to the next step in the criminalization of society. The government invented a criminal offence that did not exist before. In a few days, in December, we will see whether police forces enforce this new provision of the Criminal Code that now criminalizes activities that were not crimes previously.

Bill C-36 was one specific example. However, we are seeing the same behavioural pattern here. As was the case with Bill C-36, the government is using children to get the public on board. Of course, the NDP has a zero tolerance policy when it comes to crimes against children. That is a no-brainer, and I think that any Canadian in their right mind would condemn crimes against children. That is a no-brainer. Everyone agrees, and no one opposes virtue. However, the Conservatives always use sensitive issues and bring children into the mix so that their bills will pass. After a more detailed study in committee, the hon. member for Gatineau will tell us whether these provisions are constitutional or not. I leave that to the experts. What I have seen, as someone who is not an expert, is that the Conservative government always wants to criminalize and increase prison sentences instead of focusing on prevention and rehabilitation. Above all, it does not want to assume the related costs.

I will end there and leave it to the experts. It is important that Canadians realize that the government cannot always use children as the justification for getting bills passed. These bills are smoke and mirrors, not a real amendment to the Criminal Code that has been deemed necessary by experts and people who work on these issues.

Tougher Penalties for Child Predators ActGovernment Orders

November 20th, 2014 / 1:10 p.m.
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Conservative

Joy Smith Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB

Mr. Speaker, the member has now gone from Bill C-26 to Bill C-36. In Bill C-36, the one we worked on this summer, $20 million were put forward for the rehabilitation of victims. That really helped in that area. In Bill C-26, there are multiple tools, which have been mentioned today over and over again, to help protect children from perpetrators.

When we look overall at the laws we worked on this summer, Bill C-36 definitely added significant money and we need input from provincial and municipal jurisdictions to support it as well. Our government provided $20 million for the rehabilitation of victims. When the U.S. first did this, it provided $10 million, so I think Canada has stood as a leader in stepping forward to help victims and help solve this problem in a meaningful way.

November 6th, 2014 / 1:55 p.m.
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Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Barry Devolin

I have the honour to inform the House that a communication has been received as follows:

Rideau Hall Ottawa

November 5th, 2014

Mr. Speaker,

I have the honour to inform you that the Right Honourable David Johnston, Governor General of Canada, signified royal assent by written declaration to the bills listed in the Schedule to this letter on the 5th day of November, 2014, at 5:26 p.m.

Yours sincerely,

Stephen Wallace

Secretary to the Governor General and Herald Chancellor

The schedule indicates that royal assent was given to Bill C-10, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (trafficking in contraband tobacco); Bill C-17, An Act to amend the Food and Drugs Act; Bill C-36, An Act to amend the Criminal Code in response to the Supreme Court of Canada decision in Attorney General of Canada v. Bedford and to make consequential amendments to other Acts; and Bill C-501, An Act respecting a National Hunting, Trapping and Fishing Heritage Day.

ProstitutionStatements By Members

October 8th, 2014 / 2:10 p.m.
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Conservative

Pierre Lemieux Conservative Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON

Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased that Bill C-36, the protection of communities and exploited persons act, passed third reading here in the House only two nights ago.

Our Conservative government has provided the necessary leadership to ensure that Canada has the laws and safeguards to fight prostitution and the many evils that come with it: the proliferation of sexually transmitted diseases, the degradation and exploitation of women and girls, the scourge of human trafficking, and the involvement of organized crime to name only a few. It would be naive to think that these serious harms would be eliminated if prostitution were to suddenly become legal.

It should also be stated clearly that prostitution harms marriage and the family, both of which are fundamental to a healthy and strong nation.

As the father of five children, four of whom are daughters, I am glad that the purchase of sex through prostitution will remain illegal, thanks to Bill C-36. I personally thank each parliamentarian who voted in favour of this important legislation.

Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons ActGovernment Orders

October 6th, 2014 / 6:30 p.m.
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Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Bruce Stanton

It being 6:30 p.m., the House will now proceed to the taking of the deferred recorded division on the motion at third reading stage of Bill C-36.

Call in the members.

Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons ActGovernment Orders

October 3rd, 2014 / 1:45 p.m.
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NDP

Ève Péclet NDP La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC

Mr. Speaker, my question is quite simple.

I would like my colleague to tell us precisely what new tools Bill C-36 adds to the law. The minister's proposed money and programs aside, what section of the Criminal Code affected by the bill does not already deal with human trafficking and human exploitation? Sections 279 and 279.01 are clear: human trafficking and human exploitation are offences that, committed together with violence, assault or confinement, are punishable to life in prison.

What tools does Bill C-36 add to existing legislation?

Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons ActGovernment Orders

October 3rd, 2014 / 1:45 p.m.
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Conservative

Bob Dechert Conservative Mississauga—Erindale, ON

Mr. Speaker, I thank my hon. colleague from Kildonan—St. Paul for her question. I want to take this opportunity to acknowledge the tremendous work she has done over many years to fight for the rights of trafficked persons in Canada and around the world. She deserves a lot of credit for that.

The Liberal member said earlier that he had a letter from 200 lawyers saying they thought the bill was unconstitutional and did not live up to the test in the Bedford decision. I practise in a law firm of over 950 lawyers, and there are 14,000 lawyers practising in the city of Toronto, if my memory serves me correctly. I think there are plenty of lawyers who agree with the constitutionality of this bill, and I am one of them.

The bill was crafted to directly respond to what was requested by the three litigants in the Bedford case. They asked for the right to carry on their trade from a fixed indoor location where they could adequately screen their clients and protect themselves, and Bill C-36 provides exactly for that. It allows them to get off the streets, to do it in a fixed indoor location, a safe place which has a receptionist and bodyguard, paid for on reasonable commercial terms which are not exploitive.

I believe those things, coupled with the statement of the purpose of the bill, which is to reduce prostitution and the harm done to both society and communities by prostitution, would ensure that the bill is found constitutional by the Supreme Court if it is ever tested in the future.

I want to say one further thing. Criminal lawyers know that if they cannot defend their clients on the facts, they always challenge the constitutionality of a bill. That is just common law practice.

Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons ActGovernment Orders

October 3rd, 2014 / 1:40 p.m.
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NDP

Françoise Boivin NDP Gatineau, QC

Mr. Speaker, like the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Justice, we were deeply moved by the testimony we heard in committee, especially that of Bridget Perrier.

I was at least happy to know that the Criminal Code still has very strict provisions regarding human trafficking and sexual exploitation. I would like to repeat that, because the Conservatives would have people believe that without Bill C-36, Canada would have no such protections, when in fact those provisions provide an excellent framework.

Since this will probably be my only opportunity to do so, I would like to ask the same question.

If at first we do not succeed, try, try again.

I will ask this again to the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Justice. Can somebody please define for me what Bill C-36 means when it talks about sexual services? It is not an idle question. It is important. Does it cover sexual acts that are done that are pretty close to—whatever, I will not qualify it—but that happen in some clubs? Does it touch escort agencies? That is a very important question.

On the review and report, why did the government push back to five years our motion to get a review and report in two years?

Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons ActGovernment Orders

October 3rd, 2014 / 1:25 p.m.
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Mississauga—Erindale Ontario

Conservative

Bob Dechert ConservativeParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Justice

Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased to participate in the third reading debate on Bill C-36, the protection of communities and exploited persons act.

Bill C-36 is the government's response to the Supreme Court of Canada's decision in December 2013 in the Bedford case, a decision that will result in the decriminalization of most adult prostitution related activities if this bill is not enforced before expiry of the court's one-year suspension, on December 20 of this year.

The House of Commons Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights studied the bill in July 2014 and a Senate committee on legal and constitutional affairs pre-studied it in early September. Both committees heard from many witnesses, reflecting a wide range of views. That evidence also included consideration of the available research evaluating different approaches to prostitution taken in different jurisdictions.

The government has always maintained that failing to respond to the Bedford decision is not an option and that the testimony before these two committees reaffirms this position.

At committee, the Hon. Andrew Swan, minister of justice and attorney general for the Government of Manitoba, stated the following:

The Manitoba government does not support the legalization of prostitution, it does not support the full decriminalization of prostitution or a de facto decriminalization of prostitution, which would occur if there was no response to the Bedford decision. All those options would continue to allow the purchase of others for sex, devalue human life, and enable tragedies associated with prostitution to continue to occur.

I acknowledge that there are some individuals who will say that they have freely chosen to sell their sexual services. The two committees heard from some witnesses who wanted the law to recognize a profession that they called “sex work”, who wanted the law to help them earn a living selling their own sexual services. They wanted the law to allow them to run commercial enterprises in which sexual services would be sold so they could capitalize on the prostitution of others.

These witnesses told the committees that existing laws prohibiting assault, sexual assault, forceable confinement and human trafficking provided them with sufficient protection and that they were not victims, that they freely chose what they referred to as “sex work” and that the state had no right to tell them that they could not earn a living doing what they chose to do.

Conversely, so many of the witnesses who appeared before the two committees spoke of their tragic stories of pain, suffering and victimization, stories of johns who had abused and degraded them for their own sexual pleasure and pimps who had harmed and exploited them to maximize their own profits.

These stories are also supported by statistics that clearly show that prostitution targets the marginalized, the disenfranchised and the vulnerable, including those who suffer disadvantages because of gender, poverty, race, youth and a history of abuse for addiction. We do not accept that this group should have to wait until a violent offence is committed against them to avail themselves of the law's protection. Make no mistake about it, Bill C-36 is for them.

Even if in some cases prostitution involves some who identify themselves as consenting adults, that does not detract from the validity of Bill C-36 objectives. Some times it is necessary to prohibit conduct that produces harm or risk of harm to individuals or society, even if not in every case. The courts have recognized that the liberty of some to engage in certain conduct can be constrained to protect others who are vulnerable to the harms associated with that conduct. This includes polygamy, incest, possession and trafficking of drugs and the trade in human organs and tissues. These are practices that so often involve a power imbalance between the participants. That imbalance often results in the more powerful party taking advantage of the less powerful party.

The criminal law has an important role to play in protecting the less powerful and the vulnerable. Even if in some cases a power imbalance is not present, the elevated risk that the vulnerable could be targeted, that the vulnerable could suffer if the activity is allowed to persist, warrants prohibition of the activity itself because harm results to everyone when a practice that targets the vulnerable is allowed to flourish.

Prostitution is a case in point. We know that women are disproportionately and negatively impacted by prostitution. We know that indicators of socio-economic disadvantage are risk factors for entry into and remaining subjected to prostitution. We know that involvement in prostitution results in the experience of high levels of violence, both physical and sexual, and emotional trauma, regardless of venue or legal regime. The individual and societal risks of validating this activity are simply too high.

Simply put, we cannot condone this so-called industry for the benefit of those individuals who claim to freely choose it, because doing so would exacerbate the harm experienced by that vulnerable group who are most at risk of subjection to prostitution, and importantly, do not choose it. Facilitating this industry would also harm communities, including through proliferation of associated criminality such as drug-related offences and human trafficking, as well as society at large by reinforcing gender inequalities and normalizing the treatment of primarily women's bodies as bought and sold.

Make no mistake, this is not a business like any other. It is not an industry like any other, or work like any other. It is exploitation of our most vulnerable and our law must say no, this is not acceptable. If that means that some who would like to profit from the trade in sexual services can no longer do so, then that result is necessary to prevent the ongoing and future victimization of others.

I have focused thus far on the vulnerability of so many of those who sell their own sexual services, but what about those who purchase those same services? Some have asked why Bill C-36 would label this group “exploiters” when some are not.

We must take into account a variety of societal factors when determining whether the criminal law should apply to certain conduct, including when that conduct can be engaged in consensually. If allowing that conduct results in a reasonable apprehension of harm to some, particularly the vulnerable, the application of the criminal law is justified.

Bill C-36 recognizes that the act of purchasing sexual services, regardless of the circumstances, contributes to a serious societal problem that implicates the equality of rights of marginalized and vulnerable groups. That practice must be stopped to protect the dignity and equality of those vulnerable groups and indeed every member of our society. This approach reflects one of the fundamental roles of criminal law, which is to protect the vulnerable.

These are the reasons Bill C-36 proposes a fundamental paradigm shift toward treatment of prostitution as sexual exploitation. These are the reasons Bill C-36 proposes to continue to criminalize those who capitalize upon the exploitation of the prostitution of others. These are the reasons Bill C-36 proposes to criminalize those who fuel the demand for prostitution.

I would like to recap. The important objectives of Bill C-36 are to reduce the incidence of prostitution, a practice that targets the vulnerable; to discourage entry into it; to deter participation in it; and ultimately, to abolish it to the greatest extent possible.

For the first time in Canadian criminal law, Bill C-36 would make the purchase of sexual services a criminal offence. Although the sale of sexual services would not be prohibited, criminalizing the demand for sexual services in fact makes prostitution an illegal activity.

Some have said that an approach involving asymmetrical criminalization of a consensual activity is unprecedented, but the purchasing offence is almost identical to the existing offence that prohibits the purchase of sexual services from minors. That offence has been on the books for years and is the basis for widespread agreement on the fact that our existing law makes child prostitution illegal.

Here we see the very same power imbalance to which I have already alluded, and Bill C-36 recognizes that this power imbalance does not cease to exist simply when a person turns 18 years old. The law also treats sexual activity with minors asymmetrically. The consent of persons under the age of 16 to such activity is not valid. In several instances, the criminal law applies asymmetrically to ensure that the person who has less power, who is considered to be vulnerable, is not held criminally liable for engaging in illegal activities.

I come to the critical question that seems to have caused a great deal of confusion. How does Bill C-36 make prostitution illegal?

The Supreme Court of Canada has defined prostitution as the exchange of sexual services of one person in return for payment by another. Criminalizing the purchase of sexual services invalidates the entire prostitution transaction.

This is no different from the criminal law's approach to child prostitution, and research shows that there is good reason to treat child prostitution and adult prostitution as activities that exist along the same continuum rather than separate activities, warranting suppression in one case and facilitation in the other. In far too many cases, there is no practical difference in warranting differential treatment by the law.

Professor Benedet's testimony before the Senate committee drives this point home. Although long, I would like to quote her fully.

She said:

It is a crime to buy a young person for sex, and no one seems to be disputing the continued existence of that provision or questioning its constitutionality. No one is going to come to you and ask you to repeal that provision because it makes kids unsafe by pushing prostitution underground, even though exactly the same argument ought to apply.

The reason they will not argue it is that it is generally accepted that buying a young person is exploitation because of the inequality of power based on age, even if the kid says yes.

She goes on to say:

Of course, there are usually many other inequalities at work, including some combination of gender, colonialism, poverty and addiction. Yet, when the inequality of age is no longer present, people refuse to see any of the other inequalities that are so prevalent in the prostitution industry, even when that prostitute, now an adult, started as a child, which was true of many of the witnesses in the Bedford case.

I submit that it is time to stop ignoring those inequalities and that Bill C-36 does something very important in recognizing that there are other inequalities beyond age that make the prostitution industry exploitative and worthy of the criminal law's attention.

That is the end of the quote.

As I have said, Bill C-36 does not propose to criminalize the sale of sexual services, instead it proposes to immunize sellers from prosecution for the part they play in the illegal prostitution transaction.

This immunity does not, however, make that transaction legal. The approach does not in any way allow, authorize, facilitate or condone the selling of sexual services. Rather, it recognizes the power imbalance that so often manifests itself in this transaction.

The solution is to assist, not punish, the less powerful party to that transaction. I stress that so many sellers, some who courageously appeared before the two committees, rarely freely choose prostitution. For many, their choices were constrained, whether by the brute force of those who would profit from their exploitation or by the lack of meaningful options from which to choose.

This is the reason the bill proposes to immunize them from prosecution for the part that they play in the illegal prostitution transaction.

It is also why the government has dedicated $20 million in addition to other existing federal initiatives to assist sellers in leaving prostitution. Protecting those who are so vulnerable to the dangers and risks posed by prostitution involve preventing entry into it, helping those involved leave it, and directing the full force of the criminal law at those who fuel this trade, as well as those who capitalize on it.

I want to read to the House the words of a very courageous woman who appeared before the House of Commons justice committee in July this year. Her name is Bridget Perrier and I have to say that I was moved by her testimony. I think all who hear it will be equally moved. I want people to hear this. I think it is important that my colleagues here in the House hear it and that Canadians across the country hear it. She said:

I was lured and debased into prostitution at the age of 12 from a child welfare-run group home. I remained enslaved for 10 years in prostitution. I was sold to men who felt privileged to steal my innocence and invade my body. I was paraded like cattle in front of men who were able to purchase me, and the acts that I did were something no little girl should ever have to endure here in Canada, the land of the free.

Because of the men, I cannot have a child normally, because of trauma towards my cervix. Also, still to this day I have nightmares, and sometimes I sleep with the lights on. My trauma is deep, and I sometimes feel as though I'm frozen—or even worse, I feel damaged and not worthy.

I was traded in legal establishments, street corners, and strip clubs. I even had a few trips across the Great Lakes servicing shipmen at the age of 13. The scariest thing that happened to me was being held captive for a period of 43 hours and raped and tortured repeatedly at 14 years of age by a sexual predator who preyed on exploited girls.

My exploiters made a lot of money and tried to break me, but I fought for my life. My first pimp was a woman who owned a legal brothel, where I was groomed to say that I was her daughter's friend, if the police ever asked. My second pimp was introduced to me when I was in Toronto. I had to prostitute for money. He was supposed to be a bodyguard, but that turned out to be one big lie.

Both are out there still, doing the same thing to more little girls somewhere here in Canada.

In my view, if there is one more little girl like Bridget Perrier anywhere in Canada, we need to do something about it. We cannot stand idly by.

The Supreme Court said it is for us as parliamentarians to do something about this. It is within our jurisdiction to do something about this. She did not talk about legalizing brothels and bringing in municipal bylaws to regulate their hours of operation. She talked about using the laws for which Parliament is responsible, the criminal laws, to bring in a new way of responding to what is a horrible practice in our country.

We must aspire to a society free from the exploitive practices that target our most vulnerable members, a society that prioritizes dignity and equality of all. For Bridget Perrier, for Timea Nagy, for Katarina MacLeod, and for the dozens and hundreds of others out there, we must do this.

I hope my colleagues on the other side of the House, especially the Liberals, who do not seem to be able to make up their minds, will choose to support Bill C-36. Do the right thing and recognize the women who are trapped in this business as victims and help them to bring an end to this awful practice that has enslaved far too many in our society.

Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons ActGovernment Orders

October 3rd, 2014 / 1:20 p.m.
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Mississauga—Erindale Ontario

Conservative

Bob Dechert ConservativeParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Justice

Mr. Speaker, the member has just mentioned that the government did not present any witnesses who were, outside of government, legal experts who would support the constitutionality of Bill C-36. I am happy to have the opportunity to stand and correct him.

The member said that he watched the House of Commons proceedings in the summer. I hope he had a chance to hear the testimony of Professor Benedet of the University of British Columbia, not a government lawyer, at both the House of Commons and the Senate committee hearings.

I would like to read for him the transcript from Professor Benedet's appearance before the Senate proceedings where she was asked a question by Senator Plett.

Senator Plett said:

My question is whether you believe that this proposed law is, in fact, in accordance with the Bedford ruling. If so, how? Do you believe that, in fact, it will stand the test of a challenge to the Supreme Court?

Professor Benedet answered:

Yes, I do. I do believe both that the law is a genuine attempt to respond to the restrictions put on Parliament by the decision in Bedford, and it does seem to me, that the law is crafted in a way that it meets the demands of the Charter.

She further went on to say:

Overall, I see here a bill that is largely attuned to the concerns that the court raised. If the argument that is being made is that criminalizing the purchase of sex is inherently unconstitutional, we have to recognize what is being asserted then is that there is a constitutional right to buy women in prostitution. My reading of the Charter of Rights, particularly in light of the equality provisions, doesn't support that conclusion.

Could the member comment on Professor Benedet's analysis and at least acknowledge that in fact there are legal experts who support the constitutionality of this bill?

Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons ActGovernment Orders

October 3rd, 2014 / 1:15 p.m.
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Conservative

Joy Smith Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB

Mr. Speaker, the member skated around the issue four times from Sunday. Two weeks ago, the leader of the Liberal Party tweeted, “The days when old men get to decide what a woman does with her body are long gone. Times have changed for the better. #LPC defends rights”.

The Liberal Party is not supporting Bill C-36. We heard the member speak over and over again about human trafficking in Winnipeg North. Will that member toe the party line or will he vote “yes” to Bill C-36?

Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons ActGovernment Orders

October 3rd, 2014 / 12:55 p.m.
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Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB

Mr. Speaker, it is a pleasure that I rise to speak today on what is no doubt an important piece of legislation. I will talk about the issue for the first part of my debate, and then the second part will be more specifically with respect to the bill and why the Liberal Party has expressed so much concern about it.

As a number of members might be aware, I have been a parliamentarian, whether in this House or in the Manitoba legislature, for well over 20 years. There are a number of issues that come into play every so often on which I feel compelled to speak. This is one of those issues.

If members are familiar with Winnipeg North or the riding I used to represent at the Manitoba legislature, they would be aware that to drive to work I would drive down Burrows Avenue, from roughly the 1900 block all the way down to Salter Street, which is at the 300 block of Burrows Avenue. I would then turn right and head straight to the legislative building.

If there is a heart of this social dilemma that we find ourselves in, I was driving through it virtually every day that the Manitoba legislature sat. When the Manitoba legislature sat, I drove through the core of Winnipeg North, in particular the older neighbourhood of Winnipeg North.

I think of the streets where there are serious issues of prostitution, and everything around it. We are talking about streets, from Mcgregor , Salter, square blocks to Main Street, and streets like Pritchard Avenue, in part. These streets are part of a community which at one time were the pride of Winnipeg. There is so much richness and cultural diversity there today.

However, there are also some very strong social needs there. What I have witnessed over the last couple of decades is a sense of desperation, a community that in many ways is in need of government attention. When I say government attention, I am not just talking about attention from Ottawa or the province; I am referring to the different levels of government and the many different stakeholders.

There are many different non-profit groups in that little box, if I can put it that way, from Arlington Street to Main Street, from the tracks almost all of the way up to Inkster, and definitely up to Mountain, that do fabulous work in terms of trying to deal with the social issues there.

Over the years, I have observed first-hand the seriousness of prostitution and how that has destroyed the lives of our young people. I have seen prostitutes who would appear to be in the early teens, and when I say early teens, that is even questionable. I know 12-year-olds and 13-year-olds, and even younger, who get engaged in prostitution. Even though it is predominantly females or young girls, there are also males who get engaged in prostitution. It is not by choice that this is taking place; it is a destructive force that needs to be recognized.

I have always felt that the best way to deal with this social issue is to see a higher sense of co-operation from the different stakeholders, and in particular from the different levels of government.

When this bill came before the House of Commons, I was intrigued. Winnipeg North is not unique. There might be a dozen or more other constituencies similar in nature, so I thought this would be a wonderful opportunity for us to exchange ideas, because many of the issues that need to be dealt with when it comes to prostitution go far beyond the Criminal Code.

I have heard a lot of discussion through this process. I appreciate the time various individuals put in over the summer to sit on the committee. I would often tune in from Winnipeg to catch up on what was taking place in Ottawa, and there has been a lot of debate about the criminal element of prostitution. However, not only is there a role for criminal law to play in this issue; there is also a far greater role for us to play in dealing with prostitution and human trafficking by looking beyond our criminal laws.

I have had first-hand experience and heard sad stories. A family in Tyndall Park had a young lady torn from their lives. She was murdered. She was enticed by drugs and was sucked into prostitution. From what I understand, this particular young lady was drawn into prostitution through crystal meth and the criminal element present at the time. She even had children.

Thank goodness for her parents, who were able to provide a loving, nurturing family. They never lost hope for their daughter, but sadly, she was brutally murdered.

There is no doubt in my mind and in the minds of others that the system failed that young lady. There is this sense that we, collectively, need to do more. When I say “we”, it goes beyond members of Parliament, beyond elected officials at all levels, beyond bureaucrats at all levels. It goes to the non-profit groups that we refer to and to the core of our communities themselves. I saw first-hand the impact on a family and in part on a community.

Another individual I have known for a number of years tried to provide care to a foster girl. As much as this individual wanted to provide protection for the girl, the system did not allow him to provide the type of protection that he and his wife and his family wanted to provide. That foster child ultimately ended up falling victim to the criminal element and was roped in to prostitution.

I could relate endless stories that I have heard through the years. I can recall one touching one. A family overseas thought they could get their daughter over to Canada. She was told that she would be able to work in the hospitality industry. The family thought, of course, of a restaurant or a hotel or something of that nature. Once this young lady arrived, she was brought into the criminal element, which included prostitution among many other things.

There are numerous stories. I like to believe that we as a whole will do what we can to ensure that we are protecting the vulnerable people in the communities we represent.

I am a very strong advocate for the Marymound centre, which is a wonderful north end care facility that is, in essence, run by volunteers and some paid staff. They take some very troubled individuals into their care and under their tutelage to try to get them out of the rut of the dark side, out of criminality, including prostitution.

I had the opportunity to tour that facility years ago. In the Manitoba legislature and here in Ottawa I have had the opportunity to talk about Marymound as an organization that assists young girls in proving an opportunity to succeed in life. In many cases, they are taken right from the street or from dysfunctional families and brought into a situation where they can feel safe and, hopefully, get on a track that ultimately leads to a much more positive outcome for many of them.

We need to look at how we can build upon organizations with proven track records of success. When I get into discussions on crime bills, I talk a lot about how we can come up with progressive ideas that would enable governments at whatever level to support initiatives that would prevent crimes from occurring in the first place.

I would apply that very same principle here. Can government do more than it is currently doing to prevent young girls and boys from becoming prostitutes? What can government do to assist individuals who have already been captured by the criminal prostitution element and are currently in the system? What can we do to assist them in getting out of it? This is where my interest really lies, and I think government can make a difference.

I cited two specific examples. The first example I talked about was the prostitute with the crystal meth. This is someone who was already in the system. The parents had a tremendous amount of frustration in trying to find ways to get her out of the system. That was the first example that I gave.

The second example that I gave was the loving, caring family that realized their foster child was sneaking out late at night and being drawn into the system. The social services system failed, and no one was able to prevent this particular individual from falling into this brutal system.

That is where I believe we can do more. That is why I brought up the Marymound system. If we have resources like Marymound, which I am using as an example, they can help individuals who are currently involved with the criminal element and hopefully pull them out.

There are so many other things that we could be doing, such as providing educational opportunities, providing basic life skills that would ultimately lead to alternative forms of employment, and providing hope in many ways. We could look at ways to develop programs that would build self-confidence. There are all of these things.

I know the member for Kildonan—St. Paul is very much aware of the impact of the system on what could be a wonderful, bright young lady with all sorts of hope and future, and how individuals try to keep a person down through the enticement of drugs or often the beatings that take place. They are used to keep individuals in a place where they should not be.

Governments and non-profit agencies do have a role to counter that. I have made a few suggestions as to how we could move in that direction, and I would challenge the government to work in co-operation on other initiatives that will make a tangible difference.

When I was first elected, I remember Vic Toews saying to me that he wanted to see more community policing. He believed we needed to have more policing in our communities. He actually assigned a significant amount of money to ensure that there would be more police hired, but when I looked into it, I found that there was some money, but it was tied. When it was sent to my province of Manitoba, the provincial government sat on that money. For different reasons, It did not want to use it for policing, but the point is that it was sitting on that money, and in my last few days as an MLA, community police offices were actually being shut down.

Community police officers would go into schools and try to make a difference in the lives of individual young people who found it challenging to be out on the street in the first place. What was missing was the sense that we have not just a responsibility, but a higher responsibility to start working together to make sure that the job is actually getting done. That is something that is very lacking.

If there is anything I can contribute to this debate on Bill C-36, I believe it is to emphasize is a very significant point, and it is this: it is more than Ottawa and more than the provincial and municipal governments. It includes the stakeholders and so many others who need to get involved on this issue.

I would like to indicate the primary concern that the Liberal Party has with this legislation. It can be referred to as 200-plus lawyers. It is the constitutionality of the legislation.

The government has not been able to provide, outside of its own department, official legal opinions that the bill would stand a chance with the charter, and the reason we have the legislation before us today is that the current laws themselves have failed the charter. That led to the legislation before us today, but from everything we are being told, this legislation will not be able to meet the charter either.

Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons ActGovernment Orders

October 3rd, 2014 / 12:45 p.m.
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NDP

Françoise Boivin NDP Gatineau, QC

That is probably the best question ever, especially for me.

I wanted to speak more about the amendments that we presented.

We often feel that the government opposite rejects outright the amendments that we put forward and believes we propose amendments just for fun. That is not at all the case. We take our role as legislators seriously.

I am still wondering why the government rejected these amendments given its philosophy and its basic principles with respect to Bill C-36. In one of our first amendments, I made suggestions about the application of the Criminal Records Act and the criminal records of individuals—the same people the government called victims—convicted of offences for which they will no longer be prosecuted but exempted. Why would the government not suspend their criminal records?

I also do not understand why the government refused an amendment to make an addition to the preamble. Although we often say that the preambles are not the law, they convey the spirit of the law. Our suggestion seemed to be in keeping with the government's comments.

We suggested that the following be added to the preamble:

Whereas the Supreme Court of Canada decided in Attorney General of Canada v. Bedford that certain provisions of the Criminal Code have a grossly disproportionate effect on persons who engage in prostitution by putting their health and safety at risk and making them more vulnerable to violence;

That was the whole point of the Bedford decision. We thought it was important to highlight that and once again underscore how important it is to look at issues such as poverty, housing, health care needs and other socio-economic problems affecting women who are in the sex trade because they lack other options.

These amendments were not dangerous. They reflected exactly what we heard from witnesses, who testified because the government asked them to.

That is where it becomes clear that Bill C-36 is, sadly, part of the Conservatives' ideology. It does not address human trafficking. Frankly, it brings a proverbial sledgehammer down on those who are already vulnerable.

Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons ActGovernment Orders

October 3rd, 2014 / 10:55 a.m.
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Mississauga—Erindale Ontario

Conservative

Bob Dechert ConservativeParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Justice

Mr. Speaker, my honourable friend talked about the courage of convictions of parties with respect to the issue of prostitution and referred to the Supreme Court decision in the Bedford case. She will know that the Chief Justice said that it will be for Parliament, should it choose to do so, to devise a new approach reflecting different elements of the existing regime.

Our government is taking a courageous stand. For the first time in Canadian history, we are saying that prostitution victimizes people. It victimizes vulnerable women and girls and young men, it drives the demand for human trafficking, and for the first time, we are making the purchase of the sexual services of another person illegal. That is a courageous stand.

When that hon. member last stood in this House to speak to Bill C-36, I asked her very specifically what the NDP would do if the NDP were in our shoes and had the opportunity to bring in a bill in response to the Bedford decision. How would it address the Chief Justice's request that Parliament do something that is within its purview? How would New Democrats be courageous in helping to reduce the scourge of prostitution that victimizes people in our country?

Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons ActGovernment Orders

October 3rd, 2014 / 10:35 a.m.
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NDP

Françoise Boivin NDP Gatineau, QC

Mr. Speaker, the three prostitutes, or former prostitutes, were seeking a ruling declaring that three Criminal Code provisions—provisions that criminalize various prostitution-related activities—infringe on the rights guaranteed under section 7 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

Section 210 of the Criminal Code makes it an offence to keep a common bawdy-house or being found in one. Section 212(1)(j) makes it an offence to live wholly or in part on the avails of prostitution of another person. Finally, section 213(1)(c) makes it an offence to communicate in public for the purpose of engaging in prostitution.

The three people involved argued that these restrictions on prostitution put the safety and lives of prostitutes at risk by preventing them from implementing certain safety measures that could protect them from violence, including hiring security guards or screening potential clients.

They also alleged that section 213 (1)(c) infringes on the freedom of expression guaranteed under section 2(b) of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, and that none of the provisions are saved under section 1. They won. The Supreme Court ruled in their favour.

Do not think that the Canadian government sat back and did nothing. It was quite the case and it took more than a year to hear it, present it, prove it, and so on and so forth. There was social evidence to consider.

The Supreme Court focused specifically on the subjects in question. At the end of the day, it found that the act of driving this activity underground put the lives of these people at risk. All those who support Bill C-36 call these people victims. In this context, the risk could not be justified by the clauses in question. The Supreme Court therefore decided to strike them down.

The Supreme Court found that this compromised the right guaranteed under section 7 of the charter. The court ruled that the restrictions increased all the risks to which the claimants expose themselves when they engage in prostitution, an activity that in and of itself is legal.

My heart ached when I heard the stories shared by some victims of human trafficking, which is covered by section 279 and subsequent sections in the Criminal Code. Police officers came to testify in committee and I asked them questions. Absolutely nothing prevented them from conducting the necessary investigations, finding the traffickers, arresting them and prosecuting them to the full extent of the Criminal Code. If we need longer sentences for human trafficking, then that is something to work on. In fact, that is being done with some of the bills introduced by the member opposite, which I fully support. That is the real problem.

Street prostitution, which is what we are discussing, perhaps started with human trafficking. We need to give resources to police officers. Instead, the government is choosing to lecture everyone. It is making cuts to police forces and border services, and it is asking the various police forces to reduce their budget, but this comes at a high cost to our country. The government is not making any sense.

All of the police officers told me that the tools were there. The only tool they thought they could use was the power to give an exemption. That is what they do. We cannot be blind or stupid here. They stopped short of saying what constitutes prostitution as a whole. Even I do not know what it means. Are we talking about the sale of sexual services? Is it the act itself? Does it include escort agencies? Strip clubs? I have so many questions that they did not want to answer.

I heard the member opposite say that she took note of what we were saying. I am taking note of what the government is or is not doing. I am taking note of the fact that statistics were hidden from us for months. The government did not want to tell us what Canadians thought about this issue, even though Canadians themselves paid for the survey. I am taking note of the fact that, according to the minister, a consultation was conducted on the Internet. However, we do not know how many people responded. A hundred? Two hundred? I am also taking note of the fact that most of the people the minister had more personal consultations with felt the same way he did.

That is understandable; however, we are talking about the Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada and an unequivocal decision by the Supreme Court that clearly explains the situation and what it entails. Parliament was not given carte blanche and told that it had a year to introduce Bill C-36 or the court would do it for us.

That is not at all what the Supreme Court said. The court stated that the government had a year to introduce a bill, if it so wished, but that the bill must comply with the decision that was handed down. In other words, if the life of even one person were endangered, that would be enough to conclude that the proposed provisions are illegal.

Numerous experts told us that there was a problem. The minister himself came to tell us that he expected his bill would be brought before the Supreme Court. I have lost count of the number of times I asked the minister if it would not make more sense to refer Bill C-36 to the Supreme Court. Given what even the hon. member for Kildonan—St. Paul said, we cannot risk making a mistake and then realizing, a few years down the road, that we have created a quagmire.

The Manitoba minister came to tell us that he would not enforce the legislation this way. We create laws, but it is the provinces and territories and the police that then enforce them. How will they do that?

A whole variety of people came to talk to us. There were members of feminist groups and police officers. They came from all walks of life. Their problems are different, and that is understandable. Time and again we heard about the Nordic model, and I thought it would be discussed here. I think that most of the groups I spoke to before Bill C-36 was introduced expected that the Nordic model would be proposed. Many think that it is the solution to the issue of prostitution and that it has an impact on human trafficking.

I want to believe that. That is what everyone was telling us. It was unanimous. However, we cannot forget that the government is aiming to completely eradicate prostitution one day. While I hope that does happen, I also wish the government good luck. If that is what the government wants to do, I would suggest that it put its money where its mouth is.

In other words, the government is going to have to put some money toward this because it has been proven, even by those who support Bill C-36, that there are two main reasons why people enter this profession. I agree with my colleague that more than three-quarters of these people, the vast majority, do not enter it willingly and do not really consent to it. The two main problems are poverty and drug addiction.

It is inconceivable that a person starving on the streets is going to jump for joy and say she is getting out of prostitution because of Bill C-36. She is not going to do that. She will not even know that the bill exists. Only the Conservatives believe that a criminal commits a crime with the Criminal Code close at hand. For goodness' sake, that is not what happens.

I am saying that the Conservatives do not have the courage of their convictions. I would like to trust them, but they voted against an amendment that would have made all prostitution illegal and a criminal offence. I told my colleague from Ahuntsic that she was wasting her time because they really do not believe in it.

The Conservatives want to pass moral judgment on consenting people. Even my colleague opposite said that a small percentage of people are in the profession voluntarily. She and I may have difficulty understanding this—in fact we may not understand it at all—but if there is consent, it is none of our business.

However, we have put these people at risk. There could be court challenges to Bill C-36. We proposed more than a dozen serious amendments to improve this bill. We constantly heard the word “victim”.

The Conservatives are smart; I will give them that. They realized that they cannot criminalize victims, since one cannot be both a criminal and a victim at the same time.

I therefore introduced an amendment that I thought made sense, based on the premise that all these individuals are victims, and that was to have all their criminal records erased. A victim should not have a criminal record for something she did while she was being victimized.

However, when the time came to walk the walk, the Conservatives voted against it. When you believe in what you are doing and you really want to eliminate prostitution, you do not vote against an amendment that calls on the minister, who is proposing a tiny investment of $20 million over five years, to report back to the House.

The Manitoba justice minister told us in committee that that was peanuts for his province. It is not enough to get people out of poverty and give them any hope of getting out of that despicable human trafficking situation.

Nor is it enough to solve the problems of substance abuse. The vast majority of people working in this industry, including aboriginal women, are not there because they want to be. Those issues need to be resolved.

For anyone who believed in the Nordic model, an expert from Sweden appeared before the committee and said that that model could not be implemented without a huge financial investment. Opinions varied widely on that. This is not the easiest file I have ever had to deal with as the justice critic for the official opposition. Everyone, however, whether they were for or against Bill C-36, said that $20 million was a ridiculously low amount.

This makes me wonder whether the government truly believes in what it is doing. The Conservatives' speeches on Bill C-36, which is supposed to be the response to Bedford, are not the legal speeches they should be. Our Conservative colleagues are not talking about the fact that under Bedford, the Criminal Code sections in question will be declared completely unconstitutional in December.

These are awful, heartbreaking stories of human trafficking. It is a scourge around the world. My colleague across the way is going on a crusade, but that is okay. I will open the doors to Gatineau for her. I talked to the people of Gatineau about this. When people find out that Criminal Code provisions on sexual exploitation, including section 279 of the Criminal Code, exist without Bill C-36, that changes things.

We do not want to put the lives of sex trade workers at risk. Everyone sees eye to eye on that, and I doubt the Conservatives are any different. If someone says it is not serious, then I have a problem with that. We have to be realistic and logical and strengthen the laws, as my colleague across the way has done with a number of bills that address human trafficking. That is what we have to focus on.

We must also give our police officers the tools they need. Do we want them to arrest the woman on Murray Street in Ottawa? Do we want them to investigate the cases my colleague mentioned without naming the riding? I hope it is not my riding. It was as though she was telling us in a roundabout way to be careful what we say.

I am speaking off the cuff, like it or not, but I am weighing my words carefully. This comes from the heart, with great feeling. I worked for months on this file while trying to remain as neutral as possible. There were good arguments on both sides. Feminist groups were saying that prostitution should not be criminalized under any circumstances because it is a form of exploitation. Other groups, such as Maggie's, Stella, the Pivot Legal Society and POWER, told me that many women are in positions of control in this industry and that this was a choice they had made. They were asking who we were to impose something else on them.

From my perspective, the role of the police is to ensure that this consent is real. They need to have the means to do that, and they do under the Criminal Code. Beyond that, this is none of our business. We certainly should not change the fact that people can, according to what they say, voluntarily choose to work in this trade and do so in safety. Now, under Bill C-36, there will be no exceptions. The purchase of sexual services will always be a criminal offence.

There are serious problems associated with this issue. The government is using sound bites and shocking stories about human trafficking, which are true, by the way, to try to tell us that Bill C-36 addresses that. However, this bill does not respond to the ruling in Bedford, and that is unfortunate.

Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons ActGovernment Orders

October 3rd, 2014 / 10:35 a.m.
See context

NDP

Françoise Boivin NDP Gatineau, QC

Mr. Speaker, the debate surrounding Bill C-36 is really not that simple. Nevertheless, we can and should make it simpler, by focusing carefully. With that in mind, I would like to start by making certain things very clear.

Bill C-36 does not address the issue of human trafficking. The Bedford decision, handed down by the Supreme Court of Canada in December 2013, focused on three specific provisions of the Criminal Code, namely sections 210, 212 and 213. Those three sections of the Criminal Code are found in part VII, titled “Disorderly Houses, Gaming and Betting”. Human trafficking is not even covered in part VIII, titled “Offences Against the Person and Reputation”.

I wholeheartedly agree with the member for Kildonan—St. Paul when it comes to the issues regarding sexual exploitation and human trafficking. I even supported legislation in this area when it was being studied by the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights, since I was actually a member of that committee.

However, it is important to not confuse the issue. Yes, people—especially people who want to abolish prostitution in Canada—sometimes call on us to prohibit the purchase of such services. There is a certain logic behind that. I see where the government is headed. However, it is also important that they stop trying to fool us and stop pretending that they are fixing every problem on the planet. The government is following a certain logic by saying that if we prevent the sale of such services by making it an offence, then there will be no sexual exploitation or prostitution.

I would like to come back to the Bedford decision, which is important, because the Conservatives are claiming that Bill C-36 responds to the concerns raised in that case. Bill C-36 is an act to amend the Criminal Code in response to the Supreme Court of Canada decision in Attorney General of Canada v. Bedford and to make consequential amendments to other Acts. The Bedford case was about three prostitutes, or former prostitutes, who argued that the three provisions I mentioned earlier should be struck down. Those provisions were in part VII of the Criminal Code, under “Disorderly Houses, Gaming and Betting”, which criminalizes various prostitution-related activities.

Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons ActGovernment Orders

October 3rd, 2014 / 10:30 a.m.
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Conservative

Joy Smith Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB

Mr. Speaker, I am thankful to my colleague who has been supportive of this issue. Parliamentarians must take leadership in making this socially unacceptable. I will help any member on any side of the House who has it in their heart to support Bill C-36 for the good of Canada and the good of our children.

We have to stop being partisan. There are good people on all sides of this House. This bill is very important. We cannot mess around with it. I am paying attention and will move forward if I see other things happening. I know the victims. I know the police officers who work with them. I know the families who have to endure the aftermath of human trafficking. Parliamentarians on all sides of this House can rise up, in a non-partisan manner, to stop this terrible crime.

Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons ActGovernment Orders

October 3rd, 2014 / 10:30 a.m.
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Conservative

Joy Smith Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB

Mr. Speaker, I have to say categorically that it is the member opposite who is trying to twist the words. I know of many cases of human trafficking, and I have worked with the police. Nothing can be said publicly until they have all of the evidence and it comes to fruition.

When I came to Parliament, in 2004, we did not hear about human trafficking. Now we have cases all over the place. How does that happen? I heard a very good comment from the member on TV last night, and I admired him. He was admonishing a reporter who made an inappropriate comment. The member mentioned that he had twin daughters. I think we are all victim oriented, in a way, but we have to put our feet to the ground and support Bill C-36. Everyone will know the outcome of what every parliamentarian says about this bill.

Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons ActGovernment Orders

October 3rd, 2014 / 10:25 a.m.
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Conservative

Joy Smith Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB

Mr. Speaker, it is quite simple. People are now discovering that when people in prostitution rings get arrested—I call them the victims—they are revictimized.

I will take the member to the case of Samantha. She was trafficked by her boyfriend and was arrested and re-arrested. In fact, statistics tell us that 60% of the women are arrested, as opposed to the johns who actually purchase sex, because the law has not passed yet. She was revictimized. She had two children at home. It did her no good.

Through Bill C-36, as it is right now, she would be counselled. She would be helped out of that dilemma, which is like a black hole in which the women lose everything. They lose their dignity, their confidence. They lose everything. That is why we should not be arresting the victims.

Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons ActGovernment Orders

October 3rd, 2014 / 10:20 a.m.
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NDP

Françoise Boivin NDP Gatineau, QC

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. member for her work on human trafficking. I encourage her to visit my riding. I could translate what she is saying because most people in my riding speak French. As an MP, I spend time with my constituents to make sure I am on the right track.

I have a few questions for my colleague opposite. She began her speech by saying that, for the first time in Canadian history, it will be against the law to buy sexual services. First, I would like her to tell me what is meant by sexual services, since no one—not the minister nor the committee members—will tell me. Second, how does the member explain the fact that her government refused to also make the sale of sexual services illegal?

There is a dichotomy in the Conservative rhetoric. Even my colleague from Ahuntsic, who was probably one of the biggest Conservative government supporters when it came to Bill C-36, said that she could not support the bill after the committee had finished its work. She introduced an amendment to make prostitution completely illegal because that is what this government wanted to do.

How does the member explain this dichotomy? In this context, why object to removing the criminal records of the victims, the survivors of prostitution?

Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons ActGovernment Orders

October 3rd, 2014 / 10:05 a.m.
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Conservative

Joy Smith Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB

Mr. Speaker, as I rise today, I am pleased to say that we are in third reading on Bill C-36, one of the most important bills this country has ever had in this Parliament. I will tell you why. It is because so many innocent victims are being lured into the sex trade under human trafficking. We have numerous cases all across this country.

Last Christmas, Canadians got a Christmas present. While they were busy packaging their presents, while they were busy doing things around the house, getting ready for Christmas preparations, the Supreme Court of Canada deemed all the laws around prostitution unconstitutional.

What happened after that? One wise thing the Supreme Court did was to give the government a year, until December 20 this year, to respond to that proclamation. Having done that, our government has put together Bill C-36. It is the first of its kind that Canada has ever seen. For the first time in Canadian history, those who buy sex will be brought to justice. It will be against the law to do that.

Second, the thing that is so unique about Bill C-36 is that there is help for the victims of human trafficking. Many in this Parliament do not understand human trafficking. They talk about prostitutes, the rights of others to set up shop and control a bunch of women, and young men now, in Canada, control and force them into the sex trade. It is the most devious, under-the-surface kind of crime that people now, finally, are starting to understand.

In this country right now it has been accepted that the buying of sex is just fine, because that is what women do. However, women do not want to service up to 40 men a night. Women do not want to be coerced into the sex trade. Women do not want to give their money to people who beat them if they do not. This is not what women want.

What women want in this country is to be safe. They want to be able to grow up. They want to be able to have a life they can be proud of, and grow and prosper like anybody else.

In this House, I have heard so many speeches, but what I need to tell my colleagues is that Bill C-36 has to be supported. It has to be supported because all of Canada is watching what is going on in this country right now. All of Canada, Canadians all across this country, have sent numerous emails to me, numerous petitions, numerous postcards, and what they have said is that they want their children to be safe. The majority of trafficked victims are underage, and we are finding that now. We know that now.

If members put human trafficking in a Google search, they would see how many human trafficking cases have come to the forefront, from coast to coast to coast across this country.

I have to tell my colleagues in the House what I have done with all those petitions, all those postcards and all those emails. I have categorized them. I know every single part of what is happening in this country, because of all the compilation we have done over 10 years. I know what the people are saying in each of the constituencies across this country.

I am going to be making sure that trafficked victims and their parents are very well aware in every constituency of what all the parliamentarians are saying and doing as far as it relates to Bill C-36.

There is no reason now to do archaic thinking. There is no reason now to say, “I am confused.” Quite frankly, that is a very stupid comment. It does not matter who they are or on what side of the House, right now, in this country, Bill C-36 is a bill that parliamentarians from all sides of the House should embrace.

As I said, for the first time in Canadian history, the buying of sex will be illegal. For the first time in Canadian history, there is significant money being put in to help the victims of human trafficking. For the first time in Canadian history, the advertising of sex, those big ads for fresh Asian girls, any size, any age, anything people want, will be illegal. It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out that it is not the girls putting that kind of advertisement in the newspaper. It is predators who are making between $260,000 to $280,000 per year, per victim.

In this Parliament, a mom, who members would know but I cannot name right now, came to see me because her 16-year-old daughter was trafficked. When I met her, she was a typical staffer, a typical person, well-dressed, well-educated, well-respected. She sat on my couch in my office with tears rolling down her face when she said, “Why don't the parliamentarians in this country stand up for the victims of human trafficking?”

I have heard some of the speeches in the House. They are all in Hansard and everyone knows what members are saying. Parliamentarians ought to know more than the average citizen about human trafficking. It is the right of every single young person to be safe in this country. I heard a speech the other day by a member who talked about how we are taking away the rights of a person to set up a brothel. Basically what the member said was that it is a woman's right to exploit other women. Meanwhile right in her riding there is a trafficking ring going through to the U.S. It has not hit the papers yet, but it will.

However, I am going to take that speech and I will personally put my feet in that constituency and get the parents and the trafficked victims together and tell them what their MP said and ask them what they think about that.

In Parliament it seems that all of us think that we are wonderful, learned people. We are here for one thing. We are here to serve the people of Canada. We are here to listen to what is going on in our country and everyone here knows about human trafficking. Some members on all sides of the House have really taken up the torch. There are members from the NDP, the Liberals and from our side who have taken up the torch. Unfortunately, many members and leaders have suppressed the voices of members who want to support Bill C-36.

Today is the last time I will have a chance to speak to the bill. Over summer, we came to Parliament to sit on the justice committee and we brought in the most dynamic people, the survivors. I say survivors, not victims, because these victims now have a voice. They have become the survivors and they are listening to everything that is happening in Parliament. Members should choose their words carefully and choose their vote carefully because their voices will go across. The voices of parents, grandparents, victims and organizations that take care of victims, my dear colleagues, are far stronger than anyone else who has a vested interest.

When we hear people saying this is a right to legalize prostitution; it is an industry. Members should shake their heads. It is not an industry and it is not what the elected people in this Parliament of Canada should be professing. They should not do that. If they dare to do it, I promise I am going to make sure I will go to every city, every town, every constituency and I will let their constituents know. They can decide whether they want to elect them to the Parliament of Canada with that kind of attitude.

We have to do something in this Parliament to suppress the human trafficking that is happening across this country.

All we have to do is talk about the victims. All we have to do is talk about what happens to them. Predators come on as the victim's friend to get their confidence and lure them. It can even be a family member. It can be a friend. It can be a woman. It is not just men.

I had one case very recently where a boyfriend said to this young girl, “We'll get married. I love you”. He was her knight in shining armour. What she did not know was that behind the scenes he was part of a little gang that were targeting young girls, getting their confidence, taking away all their support systems through their families, their schools, their churches, all their supports, my beloved colleagues, and he sold her. She serviced up to 40 men a night before we got her out of that ring.

This is something we cannot be silent about. This kind of crime has been below the radar screen for so many years here in Canada. Everybody talks about every other country but Canada. In Canada, predators are making between $250,000 to $280,000 a year off their victims. That is tax-free money. That is why they do it. Mostly, it is because they follow the cash.

Unfortunately, in this country, we have had films like Pretty Woman. We have had films glorifying prostitution. It is not prostitution; it is human trafficking. This is where people do not have a choice, where they are being targeted and are mostly underage victims. What happens is that these victims just give up after a while. They get post-traumatic stress. They sort of look to their predators because that is where they get their one meal a day. That is where they have some semblance of security. This is how they look at it. It is a very sick kind of crime in our nation.

If we look at the trafficking cases in Vancouver Island, the Nanaimo newspaper and the people who work with the trafficking victims say that this ring has been undisturbed for years. We know that.

In Ottawa, 10 minutes from Parliament Hill, we have had trafficking cases.

What is happening in this country, now, is that police officers are beginning to become schooled in human trafficking. Some police officers who used to think it was just part of a daily occurrence that they did not need to pay attention to, are starting to understand now that behind those young women and young boys on the street is a very sad story where they are being brutalized on a daily basis and huge money is being made off them.

In the country right now “herds of girls”, as they call them, are actually tattooed by the person who owns them.

Years ago, long before the Speaker and I came to Parliament, Wilberforce said that once you know, “you can never again say you did not know”. The other part of that is: what are you going to do about it?

Every parliamentarian in this Parliament knows that human trafficking is happening. Every parliamentarian knows that it is basically our young people. This is not about politics. This is about doing the right thing. This is about representing our constituencies so that our children, our young people, are safe and they are not targeted, because this trafficking has grown to epidemic proportions at this point in time.

We had a nanny in Ottawa who was caught up in human trafficking. They are people who are often in a position of trust, a position where they can have access.

It happens everywhere. It happens in our communities, in our schools, in our churches—everywhere—and the victims have been silent. They are silent no longer, and they will not be silent during the next election, no matter what happens on any side of the House.

Bill C-36 is one of the most important bills we have ever put through Parliament. It makes a statement about our country. When the bill goes through, parliamentarians, on all sides of this House, can say that we will not allow our children to be bought and sold in this country.

When one talks about the pornography and everything around human trafficking, that is a conditioning of a society. A 10-year-old boy wrote to me about being addicted to porn. I was interviewed at the National Post, and the next day the National Post stated that this parliamentarian did not know a 10-year-old who was addicted to porn. The parents read this and called the National Post, and said, “We're the parents. I'll tell you about what happened”.

They came to visit me in Ottawa. I met the little boy, and we found out that a whole school division, and other school divisions all across this country, had porn popping up on their computers. It was not because they wanted it, but because the system is set up in a way that porn inadvertently pops up at random. It has happened on everybody's computer. It is a type of conditioning, a type of acceptance.

We should not accept, in any way, shape, or form, the exploitation of our youth. We should not do that. However, let us be careful. The world is watching what we are doing as parliamentarians here in the Parliament of Canada, on all sides of the House. They all know. It is not a partisan thing.

We have talked about human trafficking, and I have to commend you, Mr. Speaker. You are a man of great honour and you have given much support for this human trafficking. You stood by me a long time ago, when I first introduced Bill C-268. I honour the set of standards you have for what you feel is good for Canada.

There are people on all sides of the House who have done that, but there are too many today who are resisting Bill C-36 and are making statements in this Parliament that they will live to regret.

I have been in Montreal a great deal. I have worked with the head of the vice squad there, Dominic Monchamp. I have worked with and rescued victims of trafficking around that area. I do not speak French. Two of my children speak French very well. I wish I did. I try. I love French. However, I have not had the time to speak it eloquently, like most of the people do here. However, I have done a lot of work, and it does not matter what language we have, people know. Some of the most courageous people have come from Montreal, in terms of the human trafficking initiative. They are amazing people. I want each parliamentarian here to be able to leave this place knowing that their lives made a difference in the life of someone who has no voice.

I look forward to the speeches, and I would implore members to get behind Bill C-36. It is the right thing to do. If they have anything to say, they will hear it again in the subsequent months. I will ensure that happens in each constituency that each one of us lives in.

Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons ActGovernment Orders

October 3rd, 2014 / 10:05 a.m.
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Lévis—Bellechasse Québec

Conservative

Business of the HouseOral Questions

October 2nd, 2014 / 3 p.m.
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York—Simcoe Ontario

Conservative

Peter Van Loan ConservativeLeader of the Government in the House of Commons

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to have an opportunity to respond to my colleague. On the question of question period, as I have observed before, the tone of question period is overwhelmingly determined by the tenor of the questions asked.

There was a very worthwhile letter to the editor in The Globe and Mail yesterday on exactly that subject from a gentleman from Halifax, which I was most appreciative of. I am sure that if the members of the opposition take heed of that, we will see very high-quality question periods in the future.

In terms of the business of the House, for the balance of today, we will be continuing forward on the Nááts’ihch’oh national park reserve act, Bill S-5. Tomorrow, it is our intention to complete the last day of Bill C-36. This is the bill to respond to the court's decision. The court has set a deadline for us in December, and we do want to respond to that. We will be proceeding with other matters on the order paper through the following week.

I do intend to identify Tuesday as an additional allotted day. I believe that it will be an opportunity for the NDP once again.

We have had some discussion in the House of the importance of the potential matter of the mission that is under way in combatting the ISIL terrorist threat right now. There is the potential for the schedule that I have laid out to be interrupted at some point in time by the need for a motion of the House, should there be a decision by the government to proceed with a combat mission.

I do not believe that I reported to the House exactly what we are going to be doing on Monday. On Monday, we will deal with Bill S-4, the digital privacy act, and Bill C-21, the red tape reduction act.

Bill C-13—Time Allocation MotionProtecting Canadians from Online Crime ActGovernment Orders

October 1st, 2014 / 3:25 p.m.
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NDP

Françoise Boivin NDP Gatineau, QC

Mr. Speaker, shame on the government and on the Minister of Justice, who seems to forget he is also the Attorney General of Canada, for the 78th motion for time allocation.

It is absolutely incredible.

Bill C-13, which is before us right now, is not just any bill. The same thing happened with the prostitution bill last week. We had roughly half a day of debate on Bill C-36. Third reading of that bill is planned for Friday. The same thing will happen with Bill C-13, but that comes as no surprise.

My request to split the bill was rejected. My request at committee to wait for the decision from the Supreme Court of Canada, which was rendered a day after we finished the clause-by-clause, to suspend so we could read it was denied. We have time allocation at second reading, time allocation at report stage and at third reading.

Manon Cornellier wrote an extraordinary piece on this a year ago, saying that time allocation was becoming the norm in the House of Commons: “There was a time when limiting debate was the exception and invariably caused outrage [including that of the Conservatives]”.

Last week, Michael Spratt, of iPolitics, wrote:

The Conservatives proposed a controversial law that would expand the state’s Internet surveillance powers.The bill was attacked by experts...as unconstitutional....The Conservatives have the gall to claim that the decision confirms what they’d been saying all along — that the new law is justified. Black is white, love is hate, peace is war—

Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons ActGovernment Orders

September 29th, 2014 / 6:15 p.m.
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NDP

The Deputy Speaker NDP Joe Comartin

It being 6:30 p.m., the House will now proceed to the taking of the deferred recorded division on the motion at report stage of Bill C-36.

Call in the members.

And the bells having rung:

The House resumed from September 26 consideration of Bill C-36, An Act to amend the Criminal Code in response to the Supreme Court of Canada decision in Attorney General of Canada v. Bedford and to make consequential amendments to other Acts, as reported (with amendments) from the committee, and of the motions in Group No. 1.

Opposition Motion—Changes to the Standing OrdersBusiness of SupplyGovernment Orders

September 29th, 2014 / 3:20 p.m.
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Calgary Centre-North Alberta

Conservative

Michelle Rempel ConservativeMinister of State (Western Economic Diversification)

Mr. Speaker, it is a pleasure to have an opportunity to speak to the New Democratic Party's opposition day motion brought forward by the NDP's House leader, the hon. member for Burnaby—New Westminster.

As I understand it, the motion proposes to amend Standing Order 11(2) to empower the Speaker to enforce the standing rules of relevance used in debates for answers given in question period. Currently, the standing order applies to debates on legislation and motions.

I am going to try to take my partisan hat off as much as possible. I would like to start by discussing what I believe to be each of our general responsibilities in this place as it pertains to debate and discourse. The Parliament of Canada's website states that the chamber:

—is where Members help to make Canada's laws by debating and voting on bills. The Chamber is also a place where MPs can put local, regional or national issues in the spotlight. They represent their constituents' views by presenting petitions, making statements and asking questions in the House.

In late 2012, Speaker Scheer made a ruling, and per a CBC article, stressed that holding governments to account is an indispensable privilege of elected MPs and reminded the government House leader that Canada has a parliamentary democracy, not a so-called executive democracy, nor a so-called administrative democracy. There we have it. The role of members is to hold the government to account, and indeed the government also has a responsibility to legislate and ensure that the government continues to operate.

How does the execution of these responsibilities work in practice? I believe that the answer to that question is as varied as there are 308 members in this place, because each of us brings our own approach to this responsibility, some more successfully than others, because it is our own individual responsibility to execute our responsibilities here and we should all be individually measured by our electorate by our willingness and ability to do so.

In this, the member has an individual responsibility to respect the level of debate in this place by providing thoughtful, understood content and reasoned arguments, and the elector has the right to measure our capability in doing so. This is at the heart of the principle of civic engagement.

As an example, this morning I was asked by a reporter on my way into this place what I thought of this motion. I responded that I would comment once I had read the form and substance of it, as I had not at that time, and that I would form an opinion once I had reviewed the content. After I read it, I expressed a desire to speak to the motion in the House today and formulated by myself the content of this intervention that I am delivering at present. This is how many of us approach interventions in this place.

Last week I spoke to Bill C-36 at report stage, after speaking with several interested parties in my constituency and having read the testimony presented by witnesses at committees. There was a particular theme that I felt had not been adequately debated in the House: that of our broader emerging cultural, not legal, definition of sexual consent and how the variety of legislative options the Bedford ruling could present the House could potentially impact the same. I asked the Library of Parliament to complete some research for me and then spent several hours of personal time collating the information into an intervention which I delivered.

In another example earlier this year, the NDP presented the House with a motion which would effectively cut operating funding to the Senate for the remainder of the fiscal year. After reading this motion, I felt compelled to deliver an intervention in this place. I argued that the motion should not be supported given how our country's governance model is set up. Bills would not pass and the wheels of government could grind to a halt, including those bills currently in front of the Senate put forward by NDP members. One of the biggest compliments in my parliamentary career came on that date when I had one opposition member come to me and state, “Your speech made me change my vote.”

I was parliamentary secretary to the Minister of the Environment and now as Minister of State for Western Economic Diversification, I know it is my responsibility to understand my respective files to a degree where I can be prepared to debate and defend the government's positions on issues related to the same. I would argue that the majority of my cabinet colleagues take this responsibility to heart and have demonstrated great competence in this regard. Many of my opposition colleagues come well prepared to engage in meaningful debate as well. Occasionally, on all sides of the House, this is not the case.

However, being prepared for debate, engaging in it and preparing a rational argument should be separated from the notion of putting forward a position that all parties here say they would like. In fact, a large pitfall of the role of a member of Parliament and for those who would put seeking approval over good sound policy is that there are many who will disagree with one's opinion, but the opinion has been put forward and put forward a policy to debate.

A laudable goal in this place would be to use committee study and House of Commons debate to sway position, to develop personal relationships that balance the theatre which invariably accompanies politics with something that resembles work. In my experience, this happens far more often than is reported on in the media.

This goal needs to be further contextualized within the reality of our political system, as our political parties have positions on which they seek mandates. Indeed we will disagree with one another here and we will try to sway the public toward our position, as we believe that each of our respective policy stances is in the best interests of the country. This means at times we will vociferously disagree with the content of each other's debate, but this does not mean that the content is automatically irrelevant.

Let us carry this concept through to question period wherein members have the direct opportunity to question government on its business, the core of today's motion. I believe that the heart of the motion is related to whether members have adequate recourse if they feel their oral question was not adequately answered and subsequently propose new recourse that does not currently exist in the Standing Order.

Let us first discuss whether there are recourse options available to members. I will note that in 1964, this place debated recourse for members who felt that their questions were not adequately addressed. Again, this is from the Parliament of Canada website:

In a review of the Standing Orders in 1964, the House adopted a procedure committee proposal for the first-ever Standing Order to regulate Question Period. At that same time, the House agreed to the committee's suggestion that a rule on the Adjournment Proceedings be adopted to complement the Question Period Standing Order. The committee proposed a procedure whereby Members who felt dissatisfied with an answer given by the government to their question during Questions Period could give notice that they wished to speak further on the subject matter of the question during the Adjournment Proceedings.

At the start of this maximum 30-minute period, from 6:30 p.m. to 7 p.m. on Mondays, Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thursdays, a motion to adjourn the House is deemed to have been moved and seconded. No more than three brief exchanges are allowed on predetermined topics. Each of these topics may be debated for at most 10 minutes of the 30-minute period set aside for Adjournment Proceedings. No later than 5:00 p.m., the Speaker must tell the House which matter or matters are to be raised that day.

Certainly there are opportunities to follow up on question period, but I want to speak from my experience as a parliamentary secretary. My staff may disagree, but I did enjoy adjournment proceedings. They allowed for a fuller expansion on the government's position on an issue than the short time allowed for during question period, and oftentimes allowed for some personal engagement with one's opposition critic. Sometimes these proceedings became the nucleus for committee study, or provoked a minister to delve into a policy issue with more vigour. Sadly, adjournment proceedings are rarely reported on or followed by Canadian media or the public.

I should also note that members frequently submit written questions via a formal process to ministers. Again, from the Parliament of Canada website:

Provisions allowing for written questions to be posed to the Ministry have been included in the rules of the House of Commons since 1867. The rule, virtually identical to today's Standing Order 39(1), provided that questions could be asked of private Members as well as Ministers, although it appears that, from the beginning, the practice saw questions directed only to Ministers. That practice has continued to this day, and has been periodically reinforced with additions to the Standing Order referring to the manner that answers are to be provided to Order Paper questions; in each case, questions to Ministers appear to be assumed.

While oral questions are posed without notice on matters deemed to be of an urgent nature, written questions are placed after notice on the Order Paper with the intent of seeking from the Ministry detailed, lengthy or technical information relating to “public affairs”.

I believe that recourse as it pertains to the proposal of today's motion does already exist, and, as such, I do believe that today's motion is somewhat redundant. However, that said, I do believe this proposed new recourse is worthy of debate.

Earlier today, I believe that the leader of the Green Party said that question period resembled high school theatre. The government House leader responded with a point that the responses to question period are often set by the tone of the questions.

I think there are grains of truth in both of these statements, and why is this so? The press gallery is most populated during question period because QP gives the sound bites for 140 character tweets and the evening newsreel. It is also the time when the House is most populated by members, as ministries are required to be represented to answer any question from any topic pertaining to government business.

This indeed can be a recipe for theatre, including borderline slanderous opposition statements, which would not be made without the benefit of parliamentary impugnity.

Certainly there are times, found throughout Hansard since its genesis, where government members have given a response which was hot under the collar or ill-advised. That said, in the majority of cases, members on both sides of this House strive to bring light and statesmanship rather than heat to question period. Many of my opposition critics care more for their files than making sensational and farcical statements at the start of their questions. Many of my ministerial colleagues are subject matter experts on their files and bring that depth of knowledge to their answers.

Many of us here do not spend time away from friends and family for any other reason than to argue policy that will in our minds make Canada a better place. Unfortunately, these moments, which are frequent, do not make a provocative headline or tweet, and as such I would argue that these instances are vastly under-reported.

This type of recourse has also been studied in previous Parliaments, and I would like to discuss some of those findings. As today's debate has shades of a question of decorum, let me turn to previous studies undertaken on the same subject.

Under Standing Order 10, the Speaker already has the power to preserve decorum. This power has been a duty of the chair since 1867.

The Speaker's responsibility to preserve decorum was a significant challenge in the early years of Confederation. In fact, Speakers at that time were regularly confronted with rude and disorderly conduct that they were unable to control, including the throwing of papers, books, and, in one case, firecrackers.

O'Brien and Bosc note that this disorderly behaviour by members in the early years of Confederation may have been due to the fact that “a much-frequented public saloon plied “intoxicating liquors” to Members seeking “refreshment” during lengthy evening debates”. The saloon was closed in 1896, and O'Brien and Bosc noted, “The early twentieth centre House was calmer and more austere [...]”

A review of O'Brien and Bosc also indicates that the current challenge of preserving decorum in the House has been an ongoing challenge since at least the 1950s. It is not unique to our time.

These challenges have led to committee recommendations to enhance the power of the Speaker to preserve decorum. For example, in 1985, the McGrath committee recommended “that the Speaker be empowered to order the withdrawal of a member for the remainder of a sitting”. This power was included in the Standing Orders in 1986, and it is a power which has indeed been used.

In 1992, the special advisory committee to the Speaker on unparliamentary language and the Speaker's authority to deal with breaches of decorum and behaviour released its report dealing with decorum in the House of Commons. The report included a number of draft amendments to the Standing Orders, which would have strengthened the Speaker's power to suspend sittings of the House and set out specific guidelines for the suspension of members.

The revised Standing Orders would have provided for a range of suspension periods, depending on the number of suspensions imposed on a member, with a 20-day suspension period imposed for members having three or more suspensions. The amendments would also have allowed for suspensions from serving on committees and the loss of right of access to the parliamentary precinct.

This report was never tabled in the House, nor were its recommendations implemented or formally debated.

In the 39th Parliament, the procedure and House affairs committee also studied the issue of decorum in the House. The committee conducted its study in light of concerns raised by Canadians about noisy and boisterous behaviour in the House, particularly during question period. The committee was tasked with revising the amendments to the Standing Orders proposed in 1992 by a special advisory committee to the Speaker.

The committee heard from a number of highly respected witnesses, including the clerk and a former clerk of the House of Commons. The witnesses noted that the lack of decorum and respect for the rules is not a new phenomenon, nor is this only an issue in the Canadian House of Commons.

While the committee's report noted the Speaker's powers under the Standing Orders to maintain decorum, the Speaker requires the co-operation and assistance of all members, since the Speaker is the servant of the House and reflects the collective will of the chamber.

During this committee's hearings on decorum, witnesses urged the committee to proceed with caution in recommending rules-based changes to decorum. These witnesses noted that such changes could weaken the traditional authority of the Speaker with respect to decorum, which would be a fundamental change to House practices.

Given these concerns, the committee came to the conclusion that the existing powers of the Speaker are extensive and encompass a range of options. The committee urged the Speaker to exercise the full extent of his disciplinary powers, firmly, forcefully, and fairly, to improve the decorum in the chamber.

On this point, former Speaker Peter Milliken noted in the Ottawa Citizen last week that adding new black letter rules may not be the most effective means of enforcing standards of decency. He relied upon the uncodified principle that one must catch the Speaker's eye to be called upon to address the House. He stated in the article:

There was one member who used unparliamentary language, and I asked him to withdraw the remarks and he refused. I didn’t kick him out because in my view that isn’t any punishment.

I told him he wouldn’t speak again in the House until he apologized to the Chair and withdrew the remarks, and he never did and he never spoke again … for the rest of the Parliament. A year and a bit, I think,...

Specifically on the content of replies in question period as it stands, O'Brien and Bosc note, on page 510, “The Speaker, however, is not responsible for the quality or content of replies to questions”.

This is based on a ruling by Speaker Gilbert Parent from October 9, 1997. At that time, Speaker Parent had this to say:

With respect to all members of Parliament, I am not here to judge the quality of a question or the quality of an answer. I am here to see to it that a question is properly put and that the minister, the government or the person to whom it is directed has a chance to answer.

What the member is asking me to do is outside the purview of the Speaker. If that were the case, should I judge on the quality of all questions in the House?

I urge all hon. members to pose questions that will be of interest to most Canadians, or at least to a certain part of the country, perhaps a constituency where a specific answer is needed on something.

I decline to ever judge on the quality of either a question or an answer.

This is what I believe is at the heart of the matter in front of us today, and I am trying to be as non-partisan as possible. Our roles as members of Parliament, as well as the choice of how we choose to execute those responsibilities or not is each of our individual responsibilities.

Getting to the core of the matter put forward here today, should this additional recourse be supported? Again, if civic engagement is a partnership between a member taking personal responsibility for providing thoughtful content in debate and the engagement of the electorate in the same, I would argue that the further recourse proposed by the opposition in this motion is not looking in the right place. Rather, we each, regardless of political stripe, need to look inward and to our constituents as the true sources of accountability on how question period and debate here is governed.

Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons ActGovernment Orders

September 26th, 2014 / 1:05 p.m.
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NDP

Randall Garrison NDP Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to rise to speak against Bill C-36 at report stage. I am really glad to have an opportunity to do so despite the Conservatives' use of time allocation once again.

I remain opposed to the government's rush to recriminalize sex work in the aftermath of the Supreme Court's decision in the Bedford case. Once again with Bill C-36, the government has refused to listen to the Supreme Court, which sent a clear message in the Bedford decision that sex workers have the right to safety and should not have their situation made more dangerous by having new prescriptions put in the Criminal Code.

Like most Canadians, I could not tune in to all this summer's justice committee hearings, but I did hear and see a great deal of testimony, and I read much more of it. I was struck by two things. The first was the selective nature of the government's witnesses, most of whom had experienced a great tragedy concerning a family member who had been involved in sex work or who themselves had been victims of crime while involved in sex work.

Each of these stories, for me, had a common theme. I do not in any way wish to diminish the extent of the harm suffered by those individuals who testified. In each of these cases, the harm done was the result of a criminal act that was and would remain a criminal act whether or not there are restrictions placed on sex work in the Criminal Code. Murder remains illegal. Assault remains illegal. Human trafficking and coercion remain illegal.

I draw a different conclusion from these tragic stories than members of the government side. What these stories tell me is that we ought to do everything we can to make sure that sex work is safer. That is the theme of the Bedford decision from the Supreme Court.

The second theme I noticed coming from both government witnesses and from government members themselves was the tendency to label all sex workers as victims, to see them as poor, unfortunate people who need to be saved.

Most of the sex workers, themselves, who testified rejected this label of victim. Many asserted that they chose sex work, some entirely freely and some as a result of the limited choices they had in front of them, but the vast majority of sex workers emphasized their own choice, their own autonomy, their own control over their lives, and they have been very clear that they wish to retain or enhance that freedom to choose for themselves.

Just this week, we had an important research study released, which had been funded by the Canadian Institutes of Health Research. Researchers interviewed 218 sex workers in six communities across the country, plus 1,252 clients and 80 police officers. This is actual evidence with regard to sex work. The researchers found that sex workers, in general, overwhelmingly rejected this characterization as victims, with more than 80% of both sex workers and clients saying that sex workers control the terms of these transactions.

There was one other thing I noted in these hearings, though perhaps even more in the Senate pre-study hearings. I must say at times I felt that sex workers who appeared were shown an astonishing lack of respect by Conservative committee members. This has been communicated back to me as a member of Parliament directly by more than one witness who appeared.

As I said in debate at second reading, I have long had contact with sex workers in my riding, stretching back to my days as a city councillor. In my community, we are fortunate to have a sex worker-run self-help organization called PEERS. PEERS is an acronym that probably still means something formal but in our community it has simply come to mean an organization that cares for and helps those involved in sex work.

PEERS has offered everything from bad date lists to a drop-in centre to education and housing assistance. Unfortunately, like many valuable organizations in the community, PEERS is now struggling with severe funding issues. The amount the government has allocated, $20 million, will do little to help out these organizations in their very important work.

As a result of my contact with PEERS, I have had several opportunities to meet with sex workers to discuss the Bedford decision, both before it came out and then after it came down, as well as this legislation before it came to second reading. Before speaking today, I was fortunate to be able to participate, last Friday, in a community forum organized by PEERS, called “Decriminalizing the Sex Industry: Beyond the Myths and Misconceptions”. The format was a diverse panel of eight members responding to audience questions after some brief opening statements. The panel was moderated by Jody Paterson, one of the founding sisters of PEERS, and someone I much admire for taking her journalism and turning it into advocacy for sex workers.

I have to say I was surprised to find more than 120 people in attendance at a panel on a very sunny Friday afternoon. I was privileged to be one of the panel members as it gave me a chance to interact with seven real experts on sex work, and to learn from their experience. There were three sex workers, or former sex workers, on the panel: Catherine Healy, the national coordinator of the New Zealand Prostitutes' Collective; Natasha Potvin, a PEERS board member; and Lisa Ordell, a Métis woman and registered massage therapist. The panel also included Staff Sergeant Todd Wellman, head of the Victoria Police Department's special victims unit; and Gillian Calder, a professor of family and constitutional law at the University of Victoria.

It also included two scientific researchers on sex work: Dr. Sarah Hunt, a Kwagiulth researcher who has done work with first nations women involved in sex work for more than 20 years; and Chris Atchison from the University of Victoria Department of Sociology, one of the researchers on the study that was published this week.

I spent a lot of time describing this panel in the House today because this panel, and indeed virtually every person attending the forum, agreed on some common themes and a common conclusion. Their conclusion was that Bill C-36 would make the lives of sex workers even more dangerous.

Professor Calder made it clear that the Supreme Court sent us in the House a clear message that it was our responsibility not to re-criminalize sex work, but to legislate it in a way that makes sex work safer and provides greater protection for the rights of sex workers.

I have already spoken of Chris Atchison's study and its rejection of the argument that sex workers are ipso facto victims. He also spoke eloquently of the direct connection between sex workers being able to communicate openly with their clients and the safety of their work. His research shows how criminalizing johns would make that communication inevitably more furtive, more hurried and therefore make sex work more dangerous.

Staff Sergeant Wellman spoke eloquently from his perspective as a 27-year veteran police officer and his five years as the head of a special victims unit. He identified the importance of sex workers feeling able to communicate freely with police. If that is not the case, he stressed, investigating things like violence and exploitation of sex workers becomes even more difficult for the police; and preventing the kinds of tragedies that many government witnesses spoke about becomes nearly impossible. Clearly those provisions in Bill C-36 that criminalize sex workers would make police work harder.

Dr. Sarah Hunt challenged us to ask those national first nations organizations that have expressed support for this bill to demonstrate that they have actually spoken to first nations women involved in sex work or in sex work research and support roles. She challenged their right to speak for first nations without doing this work. The very presence of two first nations women on this panel spoke volumes about whether those claims to speak for all first nations women should be accepted.

Catherine Healy, in turn, challenged us to ask those who cite New Zealand as a negative example of the impacts of legalizing sex work to present their evidence. She clearly showed that the evidence in fact shows a reduction in violence against women in the sex industry in New Zealand. She challenged the assertions made before us in this House that there has been an increase in underage women in sex work in New Zealand or an increase in trafficking of women to New Zealand as entirely without foundation, as simply false.

Let me begin to close by citing just two more things from the forum. One was the importance of a safe space it created for sex workers, like Natasha Potvin and Lisa Ordell and members of the audience, to tell their stories. There was moving testimony in the form of Lisa Ordell's mother simply showing up and identifying herself as “Lisa's mother” in order to support her daughter. There was moving testimony from audience members about the stigma attached to being a sex worker, and the resulting social isolation, making their struggles to escape alcoholism, addiction and violence even more difficult.

My conclusion is that our decision on Bill C-36 should not be about whether any of us like or do not like sex work. Instead, it should be based on what would make these women, men and transgendered Canadians who are already involved in sex work safer, whatever their story, however they arrived there.

I want to close with some questions we must ask ourselves as members of Parliament before we vote on this bill.

As a result of Bill C-36, would sex workers be able to conduct negotiations with potential clients in ways that allow them to be sure of who they are dealing with and in ways that help them avoid bad dates? This would help keep them safe.

As a result of Bill C-36, would sex workers be able to communicate openly with police when they need protection against violence, coercion and exploitation? This would help keep them safe.

As a result of Bill C-36, would sex workers be able to participate in society without the stigma attached to their work denying them access to services and rights that the rest of us enjoy without a thought? This would help keep them safe.

As a result of Bill C-36, would there be less violence against women in Canada?

For me, Bill C-36 clearly fails on all these counts. I am sorry that this bill will pass this Parliament. I am even sorrier for the harm that will result in the time it will take to challenge it in court, and the time it will take for the Supreme Court to rule it unconstitutional, just as the Criminal Code provisions that preceded it were invalidated in the Bedford decision.

Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons ActGovernment Orders

September 26th, 2014 / 1 p.m.
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Conservative

Kelly Block Conservative Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK

Mr. Speaker, it is important to remember that Bill C-36 is a made-in-Canada approach that has two essential parts. The first part is criminal law reform. The second part addresses support for vulnerable persons to help them leave prostitution. This two-pronged approach aims to criminalize those who fuel and perpetuate the demand for prostitution through the purchase of sexual services and to protect those who sell their own sexual services, vulnerable persons and communities from the harm associated with prostitution.

The legislation is our government's comprehensive approach toward addressing prostitution. I encourage that member to support it.

Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons ActGovernment Orders

September 26th, 2014 / 1 p.m.
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Conservative

Kelly Block Conservative Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK

Mr. Speaker, the debate about the harmful effects of prostitution has been long-standing, long before the Bedford decision was handed down and the one-year suspension. I have heard from community organizations, individuals and communities. They are calling for a change to our prostitution laws as the awareness of their harmful effects continues to grow.

Bill C-36 would put Canada squarely among other jurisdictions that have taken, or are considering taking, an approach that would treat prostitution as a form of sexual exploitation that targets the victims, primarily women and girls, including those disadvantaged by socio-economic factors such as youth, poverty, drug addiction or a history of abuse. This approach aspires to abolish prostitution as a harmful gendered practice and avoids the negative effects of decriminalization or legalization.

I call upon all members of the New Democratic Party and the Liberal Party to support this important piece of legislation.

Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons ActGovernment Orders

September 26th, 2014 / 1 p.m.
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Conservative

Mark Warawa Conservative Langley, BC

Mr. Speaker, the NDP highlighted that it wanted regulations and harm reduction regarding prostitution. It sounds to me that those members want legalization with harm reduction.

What has my colleague heard from her constituents and from Canadians, particularly with respect to consultation that went on prior to Bill C-36? I heard that Canadians do not want prostitution to be legalized. They want to follow the Nordic model. What has my colleague heard? What does she think of the NDP's position of legalization?

Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons ActGovernment Orders

September 26th, 2014 / 12:50 p.m.
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Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar Saskatchewan

Conservative

Kelly Block ConservativeParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Natural Resources

Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased to join the report stage debate in support of Bill C-36, the protection of communities and exploited persons act.

Bill C-36 was studied by the House of Commons Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights in July 2014, and pre-studied by the Senate committee on legal and constitutional affairs in September.

The bill is well on its way toward enactment before the expiry of the Supreme Court of Canada's one-year suspension of its December 20, 2013 Bedford decision, which would otherwise result in decriminalization of most adult prostitution-related activities in Canada.

Bill C-36 places Canada among other like-minded jurisdictions that have taken, or are considering taking, an approach that treats prostitution as a form of sexual exploitation that targets the victims, primarily women and girls, including those disadvantaged by socio-economic factors, such as youth, poverty, drug addiction or a history of abuse. Such an approach aspires to abolish prostitution as a harmful gendered practice. It has been garnering widespread international support, and not just in those countries that have implemented it.

For example, in March 2014, an all-party parliamentary report in the United Kingdom recommended implementation of a version of this approach. Both the Council of Europe and the European parliament have endorsed it. This is not just because the approach has been effective in achieving its objectives, it is also because it avoids the negative effects of the alternative: decriminalization or legalization.

Research shows that decriminalization and legalization lead to growth of the sex industry. Demand increases in a decriminalized or legalized regime, as does the supply required to meet that demand, which is disproportionately drawn from vulnerable populations. The result is an increase in the exploitation of vulnerable groups.

Facilitating prostitution for those who claim to freely choose it results in a greater number of those who do not freely choose it being subjected to prostitution. This is what would happen in Canada if we failed to respond to the Bedford decision.

Research also shows that decriminalization and legalization are linked to higher rates of human trafficking for sexual exploitation.

There is significant profit to be made from prostituting the disempowered who are so often unable to enforce their rights, and the unscrupulous stop at nothing to maximize their profits. They may tout themselves as a helper or legitimate bodyguard, but it is in their interest to encourage and even coerce the prostitution of those they claim to protect. This is another reason why a regime that treats sex work as a legitimate profession results in higher rates of exploitative conducts. Exploiters can hide behind a veneer of legitimacy.

Some who disagree with the approach of Bill C-36 have said that it is bad policy to work toward abolishing prostitution when some freely choose to sell their own sexual services and are content with that choice. The two committees that studied Bill C-36 heard from some individuals who said that they chose sex work as their profession and that they should not be prevented from earning a living in the manner of their choosing.

I accept that some support decriminalization and condone the trade in sexual services between consenting adults, but I do not accept that such a policy choice is better for everyone implicated in the prostitution industry, including the communities in which it is practised and society as large.

All agree that those subjected to prostitution disproportionately come from marginalized backgrounds, and all agree that high levels of violence and trauma are associated with involvement in prostitution. The disagreement lies in how the law should address these serious concerns.

Why does Bill C-36 reject decriminalization in favour of an approach that treats prostitution as a form of sexual exploitation? The research on jurisdictions that have decriminalized or legalized prostitution provides one answer to this question.

As I have already outlined, research shows that decriminalization is linked to growth in the sex industry and higher rates of human trafficking for sexual exploitation. That means an increase in vulnerable people being drawn into prostitution, an increase in abuse of those in positions of vulnerability, an increase in use of coercive practices to draw the vulnerable in and keep them in, and at the end of that continuum of exploitative conduct, an increase in human trafficking. Bill C-36 would prevent the harmful effects of decriminalization.

Those individuals who claim to freely choose prostitution also say that they do not need its proposed prostitution offences. They say that offences such as human trafficking, forcible confinement, assault and sexual assault provide them with sufficient protection against abuse while involved in a trade that is well known for that abuse. That may be so for those who have some control over the sale of their own sexual services, but what about those who do not?

We know from the committee hearings that many do not choose prostitution. Many are subjected to it by force meted out by those who would profit from this trade or because of seriously constrained options from which to choose. Should we afford this group the law's protection only once someone has committed a violent offence against them and how do we ensure they are sufficiently empowered to report such abuse when it occurs?

It has been well recognized, including by the Supreme Court of Canada in its 1992 Downey decision, that the fear of reprisal from exploitative third parties too often keeps the exploited silent. They are afraid, and understandably so. Exploiters have an obvious incentive to keep the vulnerable in prostitution and many do so through horrific forms of abuse.

How do we stop this trajectory? The answer is simple. We say “no” to prostitution by targeting those who fuel the demand for it and those who profit from the trade. Bill C-36 would do that. It prioritizes those who do not choose prostitution.

Prostitution targets the vulnerable, so Bill C-36 targets those who buy their sexual services and those who capitalize on the sale of those services. This means that law enforcement has the tools required to intervene before any member of that vulnerable group is assaulted, sexually assaulted, forcibly confined or trafficked and can prevent the more serious crimes associated with prostitution from happening in the first place.

These are the reasons why Bill C-36 says “no” to decriminalization. These are the reasons why Bill C-36 says “no” to prostitution. Put simply, there are too many risks associated with this practice. A burgeoning sex industry means: an increase in vulnerable persons selling their own sexual services because of lack of meaningful options, or through force; a corresponding increase in the violence and trauma caused by subjection to prostitution; an increase in associated crime, such as drug related offences and human trafficking; and the normalization of a gendered practice that implicates the equality rights of those vulnerable groups so at risk of subjection to it.

I stand with those survivors, some of whom courageously testified before both committees and detailed the horrific abuse they suffered in prostitution. They have told their stories again and again to ensure that this type of abuse stops. They also told the committee that Bill C-36 would send a message. The message is that we are all deserving of dignity, equality and respect. The law should not allow the powerful to use and abuse the less powerful.

I ask my colleagues to stand with me and the brave women who shared their stories of pain and suffering to improve Canadian society. I ask my colleagues to join me in support of Bill C-36.

Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons ActGovernment Orders

September 26th, 2014 / 12:35 p.m.
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NDP

Marie-Claude Morin NDP Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to be speaking today about the government's response to the Bedford decision and its amendments to sections of the Criminal Code concerning prostitution.

The summary of Bill C-36 says the following:

This enactment amends the Criminal Code to, among other things, (a) create an offence that prohibits purchasing sexual services or communicating in any place for that purpose;

As I said earlier when I asked my colleague a question, there will always be things that are against the law but are done anyway in our society. This bill does not necessarily provide a solution because this is not how we are going to get rid of prostitution. That will never happen.

I think that in this type of situation, it might make more sense to take a harm reduction approach instead of a repressive approach like the one the government has proposed.

In addition, this bill flies in the face of the Supreme Court decision and the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. The Supreme Court asked the minister to go back to the drawing board and find a real solution. Based on my reading of this bill, I can see that the minister did not do that. In fact, he even said that he expects this bill to be challenged in court. This is really messed up. I do not understand how we even got to this point considering the number of options that could have been explored and the number of things that could have been done. There have been so many discussions about all of this that I just do not understand how we got to this point.

Many legal experts were consulted, along with stakeholder groups, sex workers, and authorities with an interest in this bill. Over 75 witnesses appeared before the committee. How did we even get to this point when most of the witnesses said that they do not believe in this bill?

When it comes to this bill and to many of the bills that have been introduced in the past three years, I have to wonder why the government is not listening to the experts. Why is it not listening to the people who are actually in the situation? I do not understand, and as an MP, I take issue with this. The minister should have gotten the information he needed and consulted people. That would have been to his credit. It is easy to consult people, to sit down with them and listen to them, but what is the point if the government does not really listen and just pushes the agenda it had from the start? It is easy to say that people were consulted, but nothing was done as a result.

We on this side of the House are pretty unanimous. We all agree that the measures announced by the Conservatives to help prostitutes get out of prostitution are grossly inadequate. They do not address the real problem. As I was saying earlier, this new bill creates new offences related to prostitution, specifically purchasing sexual services, receiving a material benefit, advertising sexual services and communicating for the purpose of selling sexual services in a public place. In my opinion, the real problem is that people who work in the sex industry are being more and more marginalized.

As I said earlier, there are many illegal things that are done in our society in any case. We cannot get around that by simply criminalizing everything. This reminds me of the prohibition period in the United States. In the 1930s, there was a huge spike in smuggling and alcohol-related problems. As soon as prohibition was lifted, the problems died down. In the end, people realized that the law was unnecessary. The situation we are in right now is similar, for the Conservatives want to marginalize men and women who really could use a helping hand. We also need to remember that some people are in it by choice. I think we need to respect that.

One of the measures announced was a $20 million investment to help prostitutes get out of the sex industry, but that is not enough to solve everything. Concrete action is needed. We need to properly consult the people involved. What do these people really need? Do they want to get out or are they there by choice? Where are we headed? This bill does not address these questions at all.

We also need to commit significant resources: income support, education and training, poverty alleviation, which I can never stress enough in this House, and substance abuse treatment for those in this group.

Rather than taking an approach that further marginalizes people who are already vulnerable, the government should instead work in partnership with those people to bring in a strategy to protect and support the men and women who are in this situation.

What we need is a nationwide discussion and genuine consultation on prostitution, on women's safety and on the fight against organized crime. That is what needs to be tackled.

According to Statistics Canada, 156 prostitutes have been murdered since 1991. That is 156 too many. If the practice were a bit more regulated, this type of crime could likely be prevented or at least reduced.

It is much more difficult to obtain recent statistics on other crimes related to prostitution, such as assault and rape, because the people involved are marginalized. It is like trying to collect statistics on homelessness. It is more difficult because these people do not always fill out a census form.

However, John Lowman, a professor at Simon Fraser University and expert on prostitution, has indicated that the data on crime against prostitutes are overwhelming. This type of crime is the problem that we need to deal with.

Forcing these women deeper into the shadows will put them in even more danger and these numbers will grow. That is not what we want. The government needs to protect its citizens, particularly the most vulnerable among them, as is the case here.

Prostitution has always existed and it will continue to exist, whether we are for or against it. We therefore need to regulate it and protect the health and safety of these workers.

In my opinion, Bill C-36 fails to do that and puts many lives in danger.

Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons ActGovernment Orders

September 26th, 2014 / 12:35 p.m.
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Conservative

Erin O'Toole Conservative Durham, ON

Mr. Speaker, I think the member's discussion of France and the French experience shows that each country is trying to address the harms inherent in prostitution in a variety of ways.

This model, Bill C-36, is very similar to what Sweden, Norway, Iceland, and some others have tried. As I said in my remarks, the Council of Europe actually recommended it for its wider 47 members, as an attempt to reduce harm and to get at exploitation, specifically. It is not a perfect solution, but it is one that has been studied carefully to try to minimize the demand for services that has led to exploitation.

I would also add that we have made it a critical part of Bill C-36 that transitional funding, $20 million, would be there to help people to transition out of sex work. This is a critical part of this discussion. We have to show the vulnerable that there are alternatives and we have to support groups who are already helping people make that transition.

Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons ActGovernment Orders

September 26th, 2014 / 12:20 p.m.
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Durham Ontario

Conservative

Erin O'Toole ConservativeParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of International Trade

Mr. Speaker, it is my honour to rise today to speak to the House on Bill C-36, which, as members of the House know, is the government's response to what is known as the Bedford decision. That is a decision of the Supreme Court from last December that struck down several Criminal Code provisions related to prostitution, such as solicitation and living off of the avails.

It seems that my friends in the House, rather than looking at the substance of this bill, started looking at future charter challenges. They should look at what the Supreme Court did. In fact, it invited Parliament to step in and fill the void caused by its striking down of some of these provisions under the charter. It gave Parliament one year to come up with adequate rules to address the social harms that are caused by prostitution.

All members of the House would agree that when it comes to human trafficking and exploitation, there are vast and immense risks for Canadians within prostitution and the sex trade. It is important for Parliament to make sure that the public good and public safety are protected.

What happened was the creation of the Canadian model. After consultations within the department, with stakeholder groups, and with people who have worked with women who have left the sex trade, the Canadian model was our government's response to the invitation from the Supreme Court of Canada to make laws to protect vulnerable Canadians.

I will take a few moments to talk about the main pillars of Bill C-36, which is our response.

First, it would criminalize demand. This is recognizing that in the vast majority of cases, the prostitutes—mainly women, but some young men as well—are victims. Law enforcement resources and criminal justice resources should not be focused on them but on exploitation, so the first pillar is to try to stem demand by focusing on the johns and criminalizing that activity.

The second is to criminalize exploitation in prostitution. We have heard some members of Parliament talk about human trafficking, the traditional pimps, and the people who lure young women into this trade and entrap them in it.

The third is a restriction on advertising sexual services and their sale. An important distinction in the Canadian model is the criminalization of communication in public places for the purposes of prostitution when children could reasonably be expected to be in those public places. This bill would ensure that certain public areas would not see the sex trade on a daily basis.

There are increased penalties for child prostitution. I am sure that all members of the House agree with that provision of Bill C-36.

There is a clear message in the bill to immunize prostitutes and sex workers themselves, recognizing, as I said earlier, that most often they are victims in this trade.

Finally and, perhaps, most importantly, the seventh pillar that I take from Bill C-36 is direct aid. There would be $20 million to begin with to help with transitional work for some of the vulnerable people who feel that there is no way out of the trade that they might have been lured or exploited into. Some of the exceptional Canadians, volunteers, and groups working with them would receive this money to help people transition.

My friend from Malpeque said that this bill does not see the reality of the world. Some of the MPs in the NDP seem to think that this measure is bound to be struck down at a future date by a court because it is a Conservative ploy or some political ploy. If those members of the opposition actually looked at the substance of Bill C-36, they would see that Canada is not really out of step in trying to deal with the harms of prostitution.

In many ways, the Canadian model builds on the Nordic model, which was introduced in Sweden in 1999 and followed subsequently by Norway and Iceland. These are European countries we have strong relationships with, free and democratic societies that have tried to address the social harms of prostitution through a model that criminalizes the demand and goes after the exploiters, not the women.

In 2014, the EU and the Council of Europe actually recommended the Nordic model, on which our model in Bill C-36 is clearly heavily based, to all member countries, so I would suggest that the NDP and Liberals are the ones who need to hit the reality of the world when it comes to how to address the evils and the harms caused within the sex trade.

The bill is supported by leading figures among those who try to deal with human trafficking and exploitation. It is supported by many people who work as advocates in abuse centres and rehabilitation shelters. The Canadian Police Association firmly supports it.

Members of Parliament have been reaching out and talking to stakeholders. I met with sex workers to hear their perspective. They were very earnest in their presentations to me, and I appreciated that. I also listened to law enforcement and researched the Nordic model, as every MP should.

I would like to thank a constituent of mine from Newcastle, Tony Ryta. I have had several exchanges with Tony, a 32-year veteran with the Toronto Police Service who for decades worked with vulnerable women on the streets in Toronto. He sees the Canadian model that we are bringing in response to the Bedford decision as a way that will reduce harm. That should be all parliamentarians' goal in this place. I would like to thank Tony, law enforcement workers from across the country, and people working in shelters and with abused women for their work in getting vulnerable Canadians out of this trade.

Finally, this topic goes to the root of parliamentarians as Canadians. I am the MP for Durham, but I am also a proud father of an eight-year-old girl, who is the apple of my eye. I cannot stand in the House and say that there is any public good in creating and promoting a legalized sex trade. In fact, it is abhorrent to suggest to young women that the sex trade should be an industry that is worth consideration. I want my young daughter to sit in the House one day, perhaps on the front bench, to go further than her old man.

Young women can do anything in this country, and supporting the normalization of sex work is not in the public good.

It reminds me of philosopher John Stuart Mill, who said, “No person is an entirely isolated being”. Ms. Bedford and a few sex workers who may feel that they are empowered and that there are no social harms from their participation in the sex trade do not speak for homeless aboriginal youth in Winnipeg. They do not speak for abused women who have been forced into sex work by pimps, in some cases by ex-boyfriends. They do not speak for the vulnerable, and the vulnerable are the vast majority of people drawn into prostitution.

As parliamentarians, it is our duty to ensure that our response to the Supreme Court decision in Bedford is a response that reduces harm and that discourages people from going into a practice that has drugs and crime at its centre. I once again say that I do not think our response as a Parliament should be to normalize the sex trade as an option for many of our young people and young women. That is certainly not why I ran for Parliament.

Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons ActGovernment Orders

September 26th, 2014 / 12:10 p.m.
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Liberal

Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE

Mr. Speaker, before question period, I outlined the government's attempt to push forward Bill C-36 on the basis of optics rather than the reality of the world.

I outlined as well the fact that the government has failed to listen to evidence provided at committee on the safety and security of those involved in the sex trade, and on the constitutionality of the bill. I feel the new law will end up where the old law did, and that is, it will likely be tossed out.

Let me quote what a couple of other people said.

John Ivison in the National Post wrote that the member for Central Nova's role:

—as Attorney General of Canada requires him to be the guardian of the rule of law. He is mandated to protect the personal liberties of Canadians and advise Cabinet to ensure its actions are legal and constitutional.

By introducing a new law on prostitution that is all but certain to be struck down by the courts, he has failed on all counts....

This bill is likely to make life even more unsafe for many prostitutes. If they can’t advertise their services to persuade the johns to come to them, many more are likely to take to the streets in search of business.

What he is speaking to is the safety and security of citizens. We cannot judge morally, but the fact of the matter is that it is responsibility of government to protect the safety and security of individuals. This bill does not do that. It makes it worse.

The other statement is by Michael Den Tandt for Postmedia News. He said:

Because C-36, in its effect, will be no different than the laws it is intended to replace, it is bound to wind up back at the Supreme Court – where it will quite likely be tossed, just as the old laws were tossed. So, why bring it forward?

He went on to say:

Calculated for political gain it may be; that doesn’t make it right. Until it is overturned, C-36 can only put prostitutes at greater risk. It is irrational, misguided and recidivist social policy, in a country that has gotten used to better.

There are several other quotes that came up at committee. I would refer members and Canadians to look at some of the statements made at committee with respect to the constitutionality of this legislation. There was an analysis provided at the committee on constitutional concerns. Individuals should look at that.

This law is not doing what it should do. It is very problematic. I ask the government to reconsider it. Let us just do it right.

The House resumed consideration of Bill C-36, An Act to amend the Criminal Code in response to the Supreme Court of Canada decision in Attorney General of Canada v. Bedford and to make consequential amendments to other Acts, as reported (with amendments) from the committee, and of the motions in Group No. 1.

Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons ActGovernment Orders

September 26th, 2014 / 10:50 a.m.
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Liberal

Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE

Mr. Speaker, before I start my remarks, my gosh, would it not be great if we could just legislate love, friendliness, and so on? However, we cannot just pass a bill and then things happen out there. There is a real world.

Anyway, the subject at hand is Bill C-36, and I want to touch on the first three key points in the summary:

This enactment amends the Criminal Code to, among other things, (a) create an offence that prohibits purchasing sexual services or communicating in any place for that purpose; (b) create an offence...

—subject to several exceptions—

...that prohibits receiving a material benefit that derived from the commission of an offence referred to in paragraph (a); (c) create an offence that prohibits the advertisement of sexual services offered for sale and to authorize the courts to order the seizure of materials containing such advertisements and their removal from the Internet....

Then there are several other sections, but I wanted to mention that to be sure that we understand where we are.

By way of background, it is critical to reference the now-famous Bedford case. This case is the reason we are here today.

The Criminal Code outlawed communicating in public for the purpose of prostitution, living on the avails of prostitution, and operating a brothel.

In a landmark case, a group of sex workers brought forth a charter challenge arguing that those three aforementioned provisions of the Criminal Code put, in the view of sex workers, their safety and security at risk, thereby violating their charter rights.

In its landmark decision last December, the Supreme Court of Canada agreed with those sex workers and consequently struck down those three Criminal Code provisions, determining that they violated section 7 of the charter, which protects “life, liberty and security of the person”.

The Supreme Court suspended that ruling from coming into force for a period of one year in order to give Parliament the opportunity to enact new legislation if it chose to do so, and this past June, the Attorney General introduced this bill, Bill C-36.

I want to spell something out in the beginning. It has never happened before, I am sure, but there is some confusion over the Liberal position, so let me be clear: we do not favour the legalization of prostitution.

My colleague, the member for Charlottetown, made it clear that the government will do basically what it will because it controls the majority in both the House and the Senate. All of us in this place know that is what happens. We have seen at the committee hearings that the government seems to be taking the position of going full speed ahead on the optics rather than on the detail of what this new law may or may not do.

I believe what we have before us today will actually put the new law in the same place as the old law: because the government would not refer it to the Supreme Court, it will eventually be challenged and go there, and again we will be back here, in another Parliament at another date, trying to pass a law on this subject again.

There has been a fair bit of discussion on this issue. I have had many people in my office talking about their concerns, including sex workers and those who represent sex workers. The constituents in my riding are certainly on both sides of the issue. Some think the government's proposal is not bad and others think it is absolutely terrible. However, I can certainly say that sex workers who are in the business, some of them by desire and some not, are extremely afraid where the bill leaves them, and that is afraid for their safety and security.

In my view, the government did not do the in-depth consultations necessary in the beginning. It consulted, as it usually does, with those who tend to agree with its approach to criminal justice.

I have gone through some of the committee minutes. Based on what we have before us today, the government also did not listen to the witnesses who appeared before the committee, because we have virtually the same bill that went to committee. There were a lot of good suggestions coming out of the committee, and none of them were really listened to.

It is a little off track, but I had the opportunity this summer to attend a number of Canada-U.S. meetings with the Council of State Governments Justice Center. What I find remarkable about some of the states is that they are taking a different approach to justice. I would like to read one section from one of its papers. The paper is called “Lessons from the States: Reducing Recidivism and Curbing Corrections Costs Through Justice Reinvestment”, and it applies to our approach to criminal justice in Canada. This is what it says:

A number of these states have responded with “justice reinvestment” strategies to reduce corrections costs, revise sentencing policies, and increase public safety. Justice reinvestment is a data-driven approach that ensures that policymaking is based on a comprehensive analysis of criminal justice data and the latest research about what works to reduce crime....

The reason I read that is because this bill is going in the opposite direction. It is based on optics, not detail.

Mr. Speaker, I see that you are about to stand up for question period, so I will finish later.

Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons ActGovernment Orders

September 26th, 2014 / 10:35 a.m.
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Conservative

Royal Galipeau Conservative Ottawa—Orléans, ON

Mr. Speaker, it is a pleasure to join third reading debate on Bill C-36, the protection of communities and exploited persons act. This bill would ensure that the Supreme Court of Canada's Bedford decision does not result in the decriminalization of most prostitution-related activities when the Supreme Court's one-year suspension expires on December 20.

Both the House of Commons Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights and the Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs studied Bill C-36 this summer and heard from numerous witnesses, many of whom agree that decriminalization of prostitution would result in an increase in the exploitation of some of the most vulnerable groups in our society.

We have heard much about the proposed prostitution reforms of Bill C-36. These reforms reflect a fundamental paradigm shift toward treatment of prostitution for what it is: a form of sexual exploitation of, primarily, women and girls. We know that those who suffer socio-economic disadvantage are targeted by prostitution. We know that prostitution involves high rates of violence and trauma.

The committees have heard those stories from courageous survivors who came forth to tell their stories, stories that are supported by relevant research. This bill responds to this evidence. Its objectives are to reduce the incidence of prostitution, discourage entry into it, deter participation in it and ultimately abolish it to the greatest extent possible.

Bill C-36 contains other related amendments as well. I would like to focus on these aspects of the bill.

The bill recognizes that prostitution is linked to human trafficking. In fact, research shows that jurisdictions that have decriminalized or legalized prostitution have larger sex industries and experience higher rates of human trafficking for sexual exploitation. This is not surprising. Allowing the purchase and sale of sexual services results in an increase in demand for those services, and an increase in demand results in an increase in supply.

Research tells us who is at risk of meeting that demand: society's most vulnerable, those who are disadvantaged by sex, youth, poverty, race, drug addiction, a history of abuse. This group is equally vulnerable to the coercive practices of those who would exploit them for their own gain.

Prostitution and human trafficking exist along a continuum. For example, a person may decide to sell their own sexual services to pay rent, feed their children or just survive.

That person may be recruited or forced to work for those who would exploit her, or she may seek out the protective services of those same people, thinking that they will protect her when engaged in an inherently dangerous activity.

The concern is that it is in the economic interests of those so-called protectors to exploit the prostitution of those they claim to protect. What may have been originally conceived of as a mutually beneficial relationship can quickly become exploitative and abusive.

Traffickers use all manner of practices to keep their victims providing the services from which they profit. They threaten their victims and their victims' families, they assault, they sexually assault and they forcibly confine them. They leave their victims with no choice other than to provide the services demanded of them.

Bill C-36’s reforms would assist in preventing this trajectory by criminalizing those who fuel the demand for sexual services and those who capitalize on that demand.

When prostitution-related conduct becomes human trafficking-related conduct, the bill would increase the penalties to ensure that traffickers would be held to account for the horrific human rights abuses in which they engaged.

Specifically, Bill C-36 would impose mandatory minimum penalties, or MMPs, any time a person commits any of the human trafficking offences against a child.

Although the Criminal Code currently imposes mandatory minimum penalties for trafficking children, it does not impose MMPs for receiving a material benefit from child trafficking or for withholding or destroying documents to facilitate child trafficking. Bill C-36 would fill this gap. MMPs of two years and one year respectively would apply to this conduct, which is consistent with the MMPs proposed for child prostitution.

The bill would also impose MMPs for the offence that prohibits human trafficking. Individuals convicted of human trafficking would receive a minimum sentence of five years if they committed kidnapping, aggravated assault or aggravated sexual assault or if they caused the death of the victim, and four years in all other cases.

This is consistent with existing penalties for child trafficking of six and five years in these same circumstances. Bill C-36 properly addresses the continuum of criminal behaviour associated with the provision of sexual services for consideration.

The fact that prostitution may, and does, result in human trafficking for sexual exploitation underscores the importance of prohibiting prostitution. The bill would ensure that the penalties for all of these related offences would be commensurate with the harmful conduct they censure.

Bill C-36 would also amend the definition of weapon in section 2 of the Criminal Code.

This amendment would ensure that offenders who possessed weapons of restraint, such as handcuffs, rope or duct tape, with the intent to commit an offence or to use such weapons to commit a violent offence would be held to account. Specifically, the amendment would clarify that.

First, possession of a weapon of restraint with intent to commit an offence constitutes criminal conduct under the offence prohibiting possession of weapon with intent to commit an offence.

Second, using a weapon of restraint to commit an assault or sexual assault would constitute criminal conduct under the offence prohibiting assault with a weapon or the offence prohibiting sexual assault with a weapon, depending on the facts of the case.

This approach would provide greater protection to all victims of these offences, including those who would sell their own sexual services. We know that sexual assault and assault are offences to which sellers of sexual services are particularly vulnerable.

Bill C-36 is more than just a response to the Bedford decision. It is also a response to the complex web of criminal conduct associated with prostitution.

It would provide law enforcement with powerful tools to address the many safety and societal concerns posed by prostitution.

Most importantly, it sends a strong message that Canada does not tolerate a practice that targets the most vulnerable in our society and places them at risk of suffering unspeakable and unimaginable human rights abuses.

Bill C-36 would clarify that it would not acceptable for those with money and power to buy sexual services from those without money and power.

I stand in support of this message and of a society that does not tolerate the many harms and abuses associated with prostitution. It will come at no surprise that I stand in support of Bill C-36.

Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons ActGovernment Orders

September 26th, 2014 / 10:35 a.m.
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NDP

Mylène Freeman NDP Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC

Mr. Speaker, I am disappointed that my colleague did not really listen to my speech.

He thinks it is the Nordic model, but that is not true in the least. This bill actually criminalizes women by taking away the means to do their job. Our priority is the safety of sex workers. It is obvious that this is not the Conservative government's priority with Bill C-36. The bill flies in the face of the Supreme Court's ruling in the Bedford case, which struck down three provisions of the law that put sex workers at even greater risk.

This bill criminalizes these men and women even more and puts them in greater danger. It runs completely counter to what the government claims to be doing, which is helping the people in this trade. It is awful to see this government constantly contradicting the Supreme Court and marginalizing Canadians.

Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons ActGovernment Orders

September 26th, 2014 / 10:20 a.m.
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NDP

Mylène Freeman NDP Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to rise in the House to speak to Bill C-36, An Act to amend the Criminal Code in response to the Supreme Court of Canada decision in Attorney General of Canada v. Bedford and to make consequential amendments to other Acts.

In December 2013, the Supreme Court of Canada ruled unanimously that the Criminal Code imposes dangerous conditions on sex workers, which contravenes the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. The sections prohibiting brothels, living on the avails of prostitution and communicating in public with clients threaten sex workers’ right to security of the person.

This bill is meant to respond to the Bedford decision. However, the exact opposite is happening. The NDP consulted many legal experts, stakeholder groups, sex workers and authorities who are affected by this bill, and that is in addition to the 75 witnesses who appeared in committee. The vast majority of them said that they do not believe the bill is going in the right direction.

Unfortunately, there are many problems with the bill. In short, it forces sex trade workers to work in even more dangerous conditions. They are putting themselves in danger because they have to be more isolated. They will be on the streets and in alleys. The bill perpetuates and exacerbates stigmatization. It does not take into account the opinions of experts, education and advocacy groups or sex trade workers. It will have a negative impact on the important process of negotiating the parameters of the transaction, safety, the client's choice and the consent of the parties involved. What is more, for these reasons and in light of the 2013 Bedford decision, experts have found that the bill is unconstitutional.

In short, the Conservatives want a model where sex trade workers are only approached in the street late at night, where they are unable to ask questions or take safety precautions to protect their bodies and their lives.

I would like to read an open letter signed by more than 200 legal experts from across Canada. They are calling on the federal government to examine the harmful and unconstitutional impact of this bill. The letter reads:

Bill C-36...proposes a legal regime that criminalizes many aspects of adult prostitution, including the purchase of sexual services, the advertisement of sexual services, and most communication in public for the purpose of prostitution.

As the Supreme Court of Canada unanimously held in Canada (Attorney General) v. Bedford (“Bedford”), three of Canada’s current adult prostitution laws are an unjustifiable infringement of sex workers’ right to security of the person, pursuant to s. 7 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms (“the Charter”). These laws were found to create and exacerbate dangerous conditions and prevent sex workers from taking action to reduce or mitigate the risks they face. We are concerned that, for the very same reasons that caused the Court to strike down these prostitution laws, the criminal regime proposed by Bill C-36 is likely to offend the Charter as well.

The prohibition on purchasing sexual services (and communicating anywhere for that purpose) will have much the same effect as existing adult prostitution laws. Targeting clients will displace sex workers to isolated areas where prospective customers are less likely to be detected by police. Such criminalization will continue to limit the practical ability of sex workers to screen their clients or negotiate the terms of the transaction, as there will be pressure from clients to proceed as quickly as possible. Sex workers will continue to face barriers to police protection and will be prevented from operating in a safe indoor space, as clients face the potential of being arrested if they attend such spaces.

As a result, while criminalizing the purchase of sexual services is said to be aimed at protecting sex workers, this type of criminal prohibition will in fact do what the current adult prostitution laws do, which is to subject sex workers to a greater risk to their safety. This constitutes the reason why such laws were invalidated in the Bedford judgment.

Bill C-36 also proposes a law that will prohibit the sex industry from advertising. This type of prohibition will significantly limit sex workers’ ability to work safely indoors, as it restricts their ability to communicate their services to potential clients. This is concerning considering that the Court in Bedford clearly found that the ability to operate in indoor venues is a key measure for sex workers to reduce the risk of violence.

We would also like to address the proposed prohibition on communication to offer sexual services in a public place.... This provision continues to criminalize street-based sex workers, who are among the most marginalized segment of the industry, and is only marginally narrower than what the Court struck down in Bedford. The law will have the same effect of displacing sex workers to isolated areas where they are more likely to work alone in order to avoid police detection, and where they will continue to rush into vehicles without taking the time to screen clients and negotiate the terms of the transaction.

The letter has been signed by over 200 legal experts, and I think it explains very clearly why we, as legislators, cannot support this bill. The letter is readily accessible to all online; it can be found among the press releases on the Pivot Legal Society website. That organization, one of the signatories to the letter, works to address the root causes of poverty and social exclusion through legislation and policy, exploring what forces people to live on the fringes of society and what keeps them in difficult situations.

Whatever my hon. colleagues' personal beliefs are on the matter, we are going to have find a way to agree on how to respond to the requirements set out in the Bedford decision. This letter shows that the measures proposed in the bill go against those requirements.

We also need to guarantee the safety of sex workers, as directed by the court in the Bedford decision. However, this bill does the opposite by treating sex workers like criminals and putting their safety and their lives at risk.

Furthermore, this bill is unconstitutional, like many bills this government introduces, and too often they put the safety of the most marginalized people in Canada at risk. This includes aboriginal populations, women, transgendered people, refugees, people in the LGBTT community, and so on.

Again and again, the Conservatives try to protect the people they judge to be victims. However, in doing so, they marginalize them more. The government takes away their capacity for self-determination, which is just as important to human dignity as it is to protecting oneself, being safe and living a full life.

Everyone in Canada has a right to live free from violence and the risk of violence. As legislators, it is our duty to think about at-risk populations and help them reduce that risk. Bill C-36 flies in the face of this duty by increasing the risk of violence and death for a population working in an extremely dangerous profession.

Almost all experts agree. Not only did the Conservative government fail in its attempt to draft a proper bill, but because of it, we are also faced with the very disturbing possibility that the lives of sex workers will be deliberately and intentionally put in danger.

I therefore ask all of my colleagues in the House to vote against this bill.

Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons ActGovernment Orders

September 26th, 2014 / 10:10 a.m.
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Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe New Brunswick

Conservative

Robert Goguen ConservativeParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Justice

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to voice my support for Bill C-36, the protection of communities and exploited persons act.

Bill C-36 would fill the gap created by the Supreme Court of Canada's decision in the Bedford decision, which would result in the decriminalization of most adult prostitution-related activities if Bill C-36 is not in force before the expiry of the court's one-year suspension. I know with deep appreciation that the House of Commons justice committee and the Senate Standing Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs studied the bill during the summer recess in recognition of the Supreme Court's one-year time limit.

We have heard numerous criticisms of Bill C-36 from those people who oppose its approach, an approach that reflects a fundamental paradigm shift toward the treatment of prostitution as a form of sexual exploitation by criminalizing those who fuel the demand for prostitution and continuing to criminalize those who capitalize on that demand.

These criticisms include that the bill does not respect the Bedford decision, assertion one; that it should be referred to the Supreme Court of Canada for determination of its constitutionality, assertion two; and ultimately that the Bedford decision requires decriminalization of adult prostitution, assertion three. I propose to address each of these three assertions in turn.

With respect to the first assertion, that the bill does not respect the Bedford decision, the Supreme Court of Canada defined in Bedford the objectives of the three impugned prostitution offences narrowly as addressing primarily the nuisance aspect of prostitution rather than its harms. In doing so, it came to the conclusion that the effect of these offences was either grossly disproportionate or overbroad with respect to its objectives because they prevented sellers of sexual services from taking steps to protect themselves when engaging in a risky but legal activity. Specifically, existing provisions do not permit selling sexual services from fixed indoor locations, which was found to be the safest way to sell sex; hiring legitimate bodyguards; or negotiating safer conditions for the sale of sexual services in public places.

Bill C-36 comprehensively responds to these concerns. First, it articulates its new elevated objectives in its preamble. No longer would the law focus on addressing the nuisance aspects of prostitution. Bill C-36 is clearly targeted at addressing the exploitation involved in the practice and the harms it causes to those involved, to communities and to society at large by normalizing a practice that targets those who are disadvantaged, including because of gender, race, youth, poverty or a history of abuse.

Second, the scope of Bill C-36's proposed new and modernized offences is consistent with its objectives. Bill C-36 primarily targets the purchasers, those who fuel the demand for prostitution, and third parties, those who capitalize on that demand. Moreover, the proposed purchasing offence would make the prostitution transaction illegal. No longer would prostitution be a legal activity.

Bill C-36 would also immunize from prosecution those who are viewed as the vulnerable party to that illegal transaction, the sellers. Only in certain narrow circumstances would that group be held criminally liable, where their actions harm other vulnerable members of society, our children.

The justice committee narrowed the proposed “communicating offence” to apply only where communications for the purpose of selling sexual services occur in public places that are next to locations designated for use by children, namely, school grounds, playgrounds and daycare centres. The Senate committee heard that this narrowed offence clearly delineates the parameters of criminal liability and strikes the right balance between the protection of sellers and the protection of children who could be drawn into prostitution through exposure to the practice or harmed by dangerous refuse left behind, such as condoms and syringes. Furthermore, Bill C-36 would not prevent the implementation of certain safety measures noted in Bedford.

Specifically, Bill C-36 would not prevent selling sexual services from a fixed indoor location, hiring legitimate bodyguards or negotiating safer conditions for the sale of sexual services in public places, other than in those three child-specific locations I have already mentioned. This does not mean that Bill C-36 would facilitate or authorize the sale of sexual services. On the contrary, just as the bill seeks to reduce the purchase of sexual services, so it also seeks to reduce the sale of those services. While we work toward achieving the bill's objectives, those who remain subjected to prostitution should not be prevented from taking the measures that the Supreme Court of Canada found to be the most safety-enhancing.

Some witnesses before the two committees found this approach contradictory and therefore constitutionally suspect. I cannot agree. In my view, this approach recognizes the power imbalance that often accompanies the prostitution transaction. In too many cases this transaction does not involve two consenting autonomous individuals

Asymmetry in the application of the criminal law to the prostitution transaction recognizes that so often prostitution involves the purchase of sexual acts by those with money and power from those with little money and less power. In particular, prostitution allows men, who are primarily the purchasers of sexual services, paid access to female bodies, thereby demeaning and degrading the human dignity of all women and girls by entrenching a clearly gendered practice in Canadian society.

This brings me to the second assertion, that Bill C-36 should be referred to the Supreme Court of Canada for constitutional analysis. I stress that the Bedford case constitutes a constitutional analysis on these very issues and I have just referred to the many ways in which the decision influenced the development of the bill. Moreover, we have heard academics tell the two committees that constitutional cases need a solid evidentiary foundation as to the effects of the legislation. The evidence adduced in Bedford does not provide that record in respect to Bill C-36, which has different objectives and proposes new prostitution offences. In short, it would be premature to ask the Supreme Court of Canada for its constitutional analysis at this stage.

I note, however, that the Minister of Justice tabled a technical paper with both parliamentary committees that summarizes the evidence relied upon in the development of Bill C-36. The technical paper is also available on the department's website.

The third assertion is that Bedford requires decriminalization. There are those who claim that Bedford stands for the proposition that the law must allow the purchase and sale of sexual services in fixed indoor locations; the employment of bodyguards, receptionists and others who may enhance safety; and all public communications for the purpose of selling or purchasing sexual services. However, this reading of the Bedford case ignores the fact that the court analyzed the three impugned provisions in their existing legal context. This context makes adult prostitution a legal activity and as held in Bedford, reduces the objectives of existing prostitution-related offences to combatting primarily the nuisance effects of prostitution. Moreover, this interpretation of Bedford ignores the Supreme Court of Canada's clear statement that Parliament is not precluded from imposing limits on where and how prostitution may be conducted.

Those who read Bedford as requiring decriminalization appear to have forgotten the premise of the Supreme Court of Canada's analysis, that prostitution is currently a legal activity. In that context, the court found that sellers cannot be prevented from implementing safety measures. However, Bedford does not stand for the proposition that prostitution must be recognized as work like any other and those involved in the trade, be they sellers, so-called managers, or other third parties.

Bill C-36 fundamentally alters the premise on which the Supreme Court of Canada's constitutional analysis was based. It makes prostitution illegal because it is too dangerous and poses too great a harm to those involved, the communities in which it is practised, and society at large to entrench it as a form of work recognized by law. Bill C-36 posits that doing so would increase the sex trade, and concomitantly, increase the risk of vulnerable persons being drawn into it. The Bedford case does not preclude such an approach, rather it opens the door to it.

Bill C-36 is a welcome change to the criminal law's approach to prostitution. It recognizes that entrenching prostitution as a legitimate profession by facilitating it through decriminalization would result in more vulnerable persons being drawn into it. I do not think this is the type of society to which we should aspire.

I implore my fellow parliamentarians to stand with those who have been subjected to prostitution by force or through lack of meaningful options, some of whom courageously testified before the two committees and were silenced by prostitution's oppression. I ask all members to stand with me in support of the bill, which was specifically developed to protect vulnerable persons from oppression.

The House resumed from September 22 consideration of Bill C-36, An Act to amend the Criminal Code in response to the Supreme Court of Canada decision in Attorney General of Canada v. Bedford and to make consequential amendments to other Acts, as reported (with amendments) from the committee, and of the motions in Group No. 1.

Business of the HouseOral Questions

September 25th, 2014 / 3:05 p.m.
See context

York—Simcoe Ontario

Conservative

Peter Van Loan ConservativeLeader of the Government in the House of Commons

Mr. Speaker, on the question of missing and murdered aboriginal women, I was pleased that last night the House of Commons had an opportunity to vote to concur with the excellent work in the report done by the committee of parliamentarians that examined that issue, one of well over two dozen such studies that have been undertaken on the subject. They have been helpful in forming the government's action plan that is taking place to help address this problem and help to improve the conditions of aboriginal women on reserve and elsewhere.

In terms of the government's agenda, this afternoon we will continue the second reading of Bill C-41, the Canada-Korea economic growth and prosperity act. This important bill would implement our landmark free trade agreement with South Korea, Canada's first in the Asia-Pacific region, I might add. It would provide expanded access for Canada's businesses and workers to a growing G20 economy, Asia's fourth largest.

Free trade with South Korea is projected to create thousands of jobs for hard-working Canadians by boosting Canada's economy by almost $2 billion annually and increasing our exports to South Korea by almost one-third.

That debate will continue next week, on Tuesday.

Tomorrow, Mr. Speaker, will see the conclusion of the report stage of Bill C-36, the Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons Act. The House will recall that we are working to implement this legislation before the Supreme Court’s decision in Bedford takes effect before Christmas.

Monday shall be the third allotted day, with the New Democrats choosing the topic of discussion.

I am designating Monday as the day appointed pursuant to Standing Order 66.2 for the conclusion of the debate on the first report of the Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics.

On Wednesday, the House will return to the report stage debate on Bill C-13, the protecting Canadians from online crime legislation.

Thursday morning should see the end of the third reading debate on Bill C-8, the combating counterfeit products act. Then we will resume the second reading debate on Bill C-40, the important bill to establish the Rouge national urban park. After question period we will start the second reading debate on Bill S-5, which would also, in a similar vein, create the Nááts’ihch’oh national park reserve.

Friday will be set aside for third reading of Bill C-36.

Physical ObstructionPrivilegeGovernment Orders

September 25th, 2014 / 1:45 p.m.
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NDP

Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB

Mr. Speaker, I am speaking today to raise a question of privilege regarding a worrying incident that took place today on Parliament Hill. I feel that it was a prima facie breach of my privileges as a member.

The incident took place just after 10:40 a.m. As we all know, earlier today, the government proposed a time allocation motion, the 76th of its kind, at the report stage and third reading of Bill C-36.

At approximately 10:40 a.m., the bells were ringing to call in the members for the vote on this motion. The bells were still ringing when I was physically blocked from entering the House of Commons at the appropriate time.

I was denied access because of security measures put in place today for an official visit from a foreign dignitary. An RCMP officer prevented me from entering the parliamentary precinct, saying that he had received very strict instructions not to let anyone pass. That obstruction was a serious breach of my privileges as a member.

I got here just in time to vote. Regardless of whether I was late, access to the parliamentary precinct, whether it is to vote, to participate in a committee meeting, to attend question period, to deliver a speech, or just to listen to the debate, is a strictly protected privilege.

As you know, Mr. Speaker, the second edition of House of Commons Procedure and Practice states on page 108 that:

In circumstances where Members claim to be physically obstructed, impeded, interfered with or intimidated in the performance of their parliamentary functions, the Speaker is apt to find that a prima facie breach of privilege has occurred.

Incidents involving physical obstruction—such as traffic barriers, security cordons and union picket lines either impeding Members’ access to the Parliamentary Precinct or blocking their free movement within the precinct—as well as occurrences of physical assault or molestation have been found to be prima facie cases of privilege.

I would ask you to consider my question and the facts I just related. I believe you will also find that my privilege was breached and that I was prevented from carrying out my functions as an elected member of the House of Commons.

If you find that there was a prima facie breach of my privileges as a member, I am prepared to move the appropriate motion.

Bill C-36--Time Allocation MotionProtection of Communities and Exploited Persons ActGovernment Orders

September 25th, 2014 / 10:35 a.m.
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NDP

Jean Crowder NDP Nanaimo—Cowichan, BC

Mr. Speaker, the tone coming from the opposite side of the House is deeply disturbing. MPs are raising legitimate issues with regard to the time allocation on Bill C-36. The member for Saanich—Gulf Islands posed a question to the minister, but the minister failed to respond directly to the request from the MP for Saanich—Gulf Islands.

The minister continues to cite that the Department of Justice has reviewed the current legislation and continues to assure the House that it is constitutional. Once again I ask the minister if he will table the opinion of the Department of Justice on the constitutionality of this bill, given the number of people who have raised very serious concerns that this bill may well face another court challenge?

Bill C-36--Time Allocation MotionProtection of Communities and Exploited Persons ActGovernment Orders

September 25th, 2014 / 10:20 a.m.
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Green

Elizabeth May Green Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC

Mr. Speaker, since October, when we had the last Speech from the Throne, this is the 22nd time allocation motion. I look forward to the Speaker's ruling on my question of privilege. The repetitive and nearly constant use of time allocation violates our responsibilities and our ability to do our work here as parliamentarians.

I have a small side comment for the Minister of Justice. I find his gratuitous and ad hominem insults toward the members for Charlottetown and Burnaby—New Westminster to be unworthy of a minister of the Crown.

I would ask him this one simple question. If he is so sure that this bill is constitutional, which I and most legal experts do not believe it is, would he please table the legal opinion of the Department of Justice lawyers that Bill C-36 is in fact constitutional?

Bill C-36--Time Allocation MotionProtection of Communities and Exploited Persons ActGovernment Orders

September 25th, 2014 / 10:10 a.m.
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NDP

Françoise Boivin NDP Gatineau, QC

Mr. Speaker, being concise is not my strong suit, especially since this is the 76th time the government has used a time allocation motion. Today it is about a bill that was studied in committee, and many witnesses appeared before that committee.

If I understand correctly, the motion moved by the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons would make tomorrow the only day set aside for speeches that are essential to alerting Canadians about the implications of Bill C-36 at second reading and report stage.

According to the daily order of business in the House, that happens to be Friday, and everyone knows that on Fridays, the House discusses routine proceedings until 1:30 p.m. That means very little time will be spent on the debate.

If memory serves, on Monday, we had barely two and a half hours of debate on Bill C-36 at report stage. That is the height of indecency. I am learning how Parliament works. Not only have I learned that we are not entitled to receive answers in the chamber, but I have also learned that we do not have the right to speak or even air our opinions.

I have a question for the minister. The theory underlying Bill C-36 is that sex workers are victims. However, according to a report published this week, many sex workers do not consider themselves to be victims.

Is the government afraid of letting people have their say on Bill C-36, which experts have condemned as unconstitutional? If the minister tells me that it is because the Supreme Court gave them until December to bring in legislation, then he misunderstood the Bedford decision.

Bill C-36--Time Allocation MotionProtection of Communities and Exploited Persons ActGovernment Orders

September 25th, 2014 / 10:10 a.m.
See context

York—Simcoe Ontario

Conservative

Peter Van Loan ConservativeLeader of the Government in the House of Commons

Mr. Speaker, it is a tightly run machine over here and as a result, I move:

That, in relation to Bill C-36, An Act to amend the Criminal Code in response to the Supreme Court of Canada decision in Attorney General of Canada v. Bedford and to make consequential amendments to other Acts, not more than one further sitting day shall be allotted to the consideration at report stage and one sitting day shall be allotted to the consideration at third reading stage of the said bill; and

That 15 minutes before the expiry of the time provided for government orders on the day allotted to the consideration of the report stage and on the day allotted to the consideration at third reading stage of the said bill, any proceedings before the House shall be interrupted, if required for the purpose of this Order, and, in turn, every question necessary for the disposal of the stage of the bill then under consideration shall be put forthwith and successively, without further debate or amendment.

Bill C-36—Notice of time allocation motionProtection of Communities and Exploited Persons ActGovernment Orders

September 24th, 2014 / 5:25 p.m.
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York—Simcoe Ontario

Conservative

Peter Van Loan ConservativeLeader of the Government in the House of Commons

Mr. Speaker, I want to advise the House that agreements have not been reached under the provisions of Standing Orders 78(1) and 78(2) concerning the proceedings at report stage and third reading of Bill C-36, an act to amend the Criminal Code in response to the Supreme Court of Canada decision in Attorney General of Canada v. Bedford and to make consequential amendments to other acts.

Under the provisions of Standing Order 78(3), I give notice that a minister of the Crown will propose at the next sitting a motion to allot a specific number of days or hours for the consideration and disposal of proceedings at the said stage.

JusticeAdjournment Proceedings

September 23rd, 2014 / 7:40 p.m.
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Conservative

Bob Dechert Conservative Mississauga—Erindale, ON

Mr. Speaker, in fact what my hon. friend says is incorrect.

Bill C-36 specifically responds to the major concern in the Bedford case, which was the inability of sex workers to carry on their trade from a fixed, safe indoor location where they could have security and properly screen their clients. Bill C-36 allows exactly that. That is what each of the litigants in the Bedford decision asked for, and that is what Bill C-36 delivers to them.

Some are saying that decriminalization of prostitution is the only way to ensure the safety of those subject to it, and that Bill C-36 will increase prostitution's risks by criminalizing both the purchase and the sale of sexual services in a narrow range of circumstances. They also question the compliance of Bill C-36 with the charter. These assertions are not true.

First, Bill C-36 reflects a fundamental paradigm shift away from treatment of prostitution as a nuisance toward treatment of prostitution for what it is, sexual exploitation. Consistent with this transformative objective, Bill C-36 would criminalize the purchase of sexual services, but generally, not the sale. Those who sell sexual services are viewed as victims of an exploitative practice, and accordingly, they would be immunized from prosecution for any part they may play in the new purchasing, material benefit, procuring or advertising offences.

I would also note that decriminalization has been linked to higher rates of human trafficking in countries such as Germany and the Netherlands. I therefore reject the assertion that decriminalization is the only way to ensure the safety of those who offer sex for sale.

JusticeAdjournment Proceedings

September 23rd, 2014 / 7:35 p.m.
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Mississauga—Erindale Ontario

Conservative

Bob Dechert ConservativeParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Justice

Mr. Speaker, today I will speak about Bill C-36, the protection of communities and exploited persons act. Specifically, I would like to discuss how the Supreme Court of Canada's Bedford decision informed Bill C-36's proposals for law reform.

Under the current law, neither the purchase nor sale of sexual services is illegal. However, certain activities related to prostitution are prohibited. The Supreme Court found that three of these offences were unconstitutional on the basis that they violate section 7 of the charter, the right to security of the person—in this case, individuals who sell their own sexual services—by preventing them from taking measures to protect themselves while engaging in a risky but legal activity. These protective measures include independently selling sexual services from a fixed indoor location, hiring bodyguards and drivers, and negotiating safer conditions for the sale of sexual services in public places.

The offences were found to be grossly disproportionate or overly broad in scope with respect to their legislative objectives, which, in the court's view, target primarily the nuisance aspects of prostitution.

In response, Bill C-36 would make prostitution an illegal activity by criminalizing the purchase of sexual services, which represents half of the prostitution transaction.

Bill C-36's preamble explains why it would make prostitution illegal. It clarifies that Parliament sees prostitution as an inherently exploitative activity that always poses a risk of violence.

Bill C-36 also seeks to protect communities from the harms associated with prostitution, including related criminality and the exposure of children to the sale of sex as a commodity.

For these reasons, Bill C-36 seeks to reduce the incidents of prostitution with a view to abolishing it as much as is possible.

These new statements of purpose, which are reflected in Bill C-36's preamble, would serve as a starting point for any future charter analysis of Bill C-36's reforms. The court would have to analyze the new offences, offences that would restrict an exploitative and therefore illegal activity, through this lens.

Moreover, Bill C-36's provisions would provide that persons who sell their own sexual services could not be prosecuted when they sell sexual services from a fixed indoor location, whether independently or co-operatively. This approach responds to the Supreme Court of Canada's safety concerns about the ability to sell sexual services indoors.

Bill C-36 would also carefully balance the Supreme Court of Canada's safety concerns regarding the availability of protective services with the need to ensure that exploitative third parties are criminalized. Specifically, Bill C-36 would limit the scope of the new material benefit offence through legislated exceptions that would apply to several groups of people, including those who provide protective services to persons who sell their sexual services, but it clearly stipulates that those exceptions would not apply in exploitative circumstances.

Finally, to address the Supreme Court's concern that persons who sell their own sexual services must be able to take steps to negotiate safer conditions for the sale of sexual services in public places, Bill C-36 would significantly narrow the scope of the existing communicating offence.

The current offence applies to all communications made in any public place for the purposes of purchasing or selling sexual services. However, under Bill C-36, the new purchasing offence would also prohibit communicating in any place for the purposes of purchasing.

A separate offence would apply to communicating for the purposes of selling sexual services, but only in a public place or in any place open to public view that is, or is next to, a schoolground, playground, or daycare centre. It would only be in those places.

This approach strikes a careful balance between the interests of two vulnerable groups: those who are exploited through prostitution and those of children who may be exposed to the sale of sex as a commodity, which is a harm in and of itself.

I hope that this clarifies any concerns about Bill C-36's compliance with the Supreme Court of Canada's findings in Bedford.

JusticeAdjournment Proceedings

September 23rd, 2014 / 7:30 p.m.
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Green

Bruce Hyer Green Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON

Mr. Speaker, I stand to voice my opposition to the Conservatives' Bill C-36, the so-called “protection of communities and exploited persons act”. Bill C-36 would do nothing to improve the working conditions for those involved in the sex trade.

Under Bill C-36, a prostitute who communicates to sell sexual services could be thrown in jail for up to six months. This is the same criminalization of sex workers under a new name.

When sex workers and their clients are scared of prosecution, they will take steps to avoid police detection. This will lead to even more unsafe and riskier working conditions.

Bill C-36 flies in the face of all the concerns raised by our Supreme Court last December.

The Conservatives have tried to sell this bad bill by claiming that targeting the buyers of sex will decrease the demand for prostitution. This is ridiculous. The demand will always exist and has existed for the world's oldest profession.

A report from Norway, where prostitution laws were similar to those proposed by this government, concluded that sex workers there were still experiencing high levels of violence and discrimination against women had actually increased.

Bill C-36 is part of a pattern of the Conservatives' blatant disregard for the rights of Canadians. The unanimous ruling by our highest court was clear: the old laws were unconstitutional. They infringed on the charter right to security, which all Canadians are entitled to, including sex workers.

The Conservatives have totally ignored the Bedford ruling. The bill discriminates against sex workers. It openly defies the Supreme Court and the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

Of course, this is hardly the first time the Conservative government has disregarded the Supreme Court. Its Bill C-2 banned safe injection sites, which the court unanimously ruled were necessary to reduce health risks in 2011. The Conservatives have ignored the court's affirmation of Canadians' privacy rights and introduced Bill C-13, which would legalize Internet snooping.

This is shameful. The Conservatives' disdain for the constitutional rights of Canadians is reprehensible and dangerous.

The Conservatives had an opportunity to introduce evidence-based policy. They could have taken a hint from New Zealand, where prostitution is legal, regulated and taxed.

Research there shows that sex workers are safer and are empowered to refuse dangerous clients. Sex workers in New Zealand are more likely to use condoms and HIV rates there are lower there than in other countries. Employment conditions for sex workers in New Zealand have improved drastically and violence against sex workers there has declined significantly.

The facts speak for themselves. While the Conservatives are entitled to their own opinions about sexual matters, they are not entitled to their own facts.

The government should know that poverty is the major driver for many women in the sex trade. If the Conservatives really want to help sex workers, perhaps they would implement a guaranteed livable income so all Canadians could prosper in a safe career of their own choosing.

Our response should have followed the successful New Zealand model, a safe and regulated work environment. A practical and progressive government would, and will soon in about a year from now, face reality and make prostitution legal, regulated, taxed, safer for everyone and get organized crime out of the sex business.

Motions in AmendmentProtecting Canadians from Online Crime ActGovernment Orders

September 22nd, 2014 / 5:30 p.m.
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NDP

Randall Garrison NDP Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca, BC

Mr. Speaker, I rise today to speak in opposition to Bill C-13, and I think that is unfortunate.

Like many MPs, I had high hopes when the issue of cyberbullying first came before the House. I had high hopes that we would recognize the urgency with which we needed to respond to cyberbullying and the risk of suicides, especially when we were faced with the unfortunate examples of Rehtaeh Parsons in Nova Scotia and Amanda Todd in B.C. taking their own lives.

In fact, we did respond relatively quickly. The member for Dartmouth—Cole Harbour introduced a private member's bill in June 2013. It was a simple bill that did not include a lot of extraneous material. It was a simple bill that would have made it an offence to produce or distribute intimate images of an individual without that person's consent.

Unfortunately, despite attempts to get unanimous consent to move the bill forward, the government said that it had to do a lot more study and think a lot more about what it wanted to present in a government bill. When that bill finally got before us in November 2013, nearly a year ago, as usual with the Conservative government we found a far broader bill than was necessary. It is a bill that includes many issues that have little or nothing to do with cyberbullying, including restrictions on telemarketing, theft of telecommunication services, provisions on terrorist financing, and bank financial disclosures.

What we have before us now is a bill with a much broader scope and one that includes bringing back many aspects of the Conservatives' previous Bill C-30, which was widely rejected by public opinion and especially by privacy advocates.

As someone who worked closely with the criminal justice system for more than two decades before coming here, I have some very serious concerns about the government's attempt to expand access to personal information, both with and without a warrant, that remains in Bill C-13

I am very concerned about the new and low bar for grounds for getting a warrant to get personal information. I see no justification for lowering the grounds for a warrant from “reasonable grounds to believe”, to this new category of reasonable suspicion. For that reason, of course, we proposed an amendment to delete this clause entirely from the bill.

In fact, I believe, despite the speeches we have heard from the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Justice, that the Spencer case this summer brings into question the constitutionality of many provisions of Bill C-13. This was an important ruling banning Internet service providers from disclosing names, addresses, and phone numbers of customers voluntarily to the authorities.

The bill would also create a worrying new category of those entitled to our personal information. It has expanded from the well-defined, in law, concept of peace officers, and we know who they are, to this unclear new concept of “public officers”. Does this mean tax officials? Who does this mean are public officers?

In committee we proposed 37 different amendments to try to narrow the scope of the bill. As my colleague for Dartmouth—Cole Harbour so eloquently put it a few moments ago, we were trying to make sure that this bill did not spend the rest of its life being challenged in court. Unfortunately, we did not see any of those amendments adopted, and I do not think we will see our amendments adopted at report stage.

I want to return to one surprising inclusion in Bill C-13 that I was happy to see there. For whatever reason, the government decided to reopen the hate crime section of the Criminal Code in clause 12 of Bill C-13. There is some connection there with cyberbullying and cyberbullying's relation to an escalation into hate crimes.

I think perhaps there was a justification, but I was very surprised to see that when the government listed the new identifiable groups to receive protection, it added national origin, sex, age, and mental or physical disability. Yet what was left out was gender identity.

The House of Commons had already agreed, in a vote on my private member's bill, Bill C-279, on March 20, 2013, by a margin of 149 to 137, with support from all parties, to include protection on the basis of gender identity. Therefore, there was a deliberate omission from this list of new protected grounds of something that we had already decided in the full House.

This is why earlier today I proposed an amendment to clause 12, which I had already placed in the justice committee. I was optimistic that we would be allowed to debate this bill again. I proposed this amendment in committee to try to correct what I felt was an error in the drafting of Bill C-13. It should have included gender identity, precisely for the reason I cited: we had already voted on this provision here in the full House of Commons.

I was very optimistic in committee. After all, two of the five government members in the justice committee had voted for my private member's bill. Therefore, I expected when I proposed the amendment it would pass in committee by a vote of 6 to 3 in favour, because that is how those members had previously voted on the very same provision in Bill C-279. However, at the last minute, one Conservative changed his vote and one member was substituted out of committee. Hence, my amendment was defeated 5 to 4.

This is why I placed my amendment on the order paper again and asked the Speaker to take the unusual step of allowing it to be put before the full House again. The Speaker ruled that my amendment did not meet the test set out in our rules, which would have allowed it to come before the House today as part of this debate.

The problem, of course, is not the Speaker's ruling. It is instead that the government, which always posed as neutral on the provisions of my private member's bill, has found a way of using a government bill to undo the decision that had already been taken in the House on Bill C-279 to provide protection against hate crimes to transgender Canadians. This shows a fundamental disrespect for the will of the majority as already expressed in the House. Therefore, when it comes to respecting the rights of transgender Canadians, it turns out the government is not as neutral as it was pretending to be. This perhaps explains what has happened to the same provision we could have been talking about today, over in the Senate in Bill C-279.

The second problem we have in achieving protection against hate crimes for transgender Canadians is, of course, the Senate. The bill has been before the Senate two different times. The first time was in the spring of 2011. It was approved by the House of Commons and sent to the Senate, which failed to act at all before the election was called. Therefore, that provision died before the Senate.

As I mentioned earlier, Bill C-279 passed the House of Commons on March 20, 2013, a year and a half ago. It has been in the Senate for a year and a half. I know they only meet three days a week, but there are still plenty of sitting days for them to deal with this. In fact, in 2013, it did pass second reading. In other words, it received approval in principle. Now we have the House of Commons saying that what we were supposed to be dealing with in the bill to be true and the Senate, in principle, agreeing. It was sent to the human rights committee, which held hearings and approved Bill C-279 without amendment and returned it to the full floor of the Senate, where a third reading and final vote was not called. The House prorogued and that bill started over.

Here again is where the supposed neutrality of the government on protecting transgender Canadians against hate crimes comes into question. The bill could have been expedited through the Senate, as it had already been through all the stages there. Even simpler, the bill could have been sent back to the human rights committee, and since it had already held hearings and dealt with the bill, it could have been returned quickly to the floor of the Senate. Instead, the government leadership in the Senate sent the bill to a different committee, the legal and constitutional affairs committee. This is an interesting choice. This not only meant that the committee would have to hold new hearings, but it is the busiest committee in the Senate, with the government's crime agenda. It means this committee will have to deal with bills like the one we have before us today, Bill C-13; Bill C-36, dealing with sex work; and Bill C-2, dealing with safe injection sites. It will have to deal with all of those before it ever gets to a private member's bill.

Again, the fig leaf of neutrality claimed by the government is looking a little withered, since decisions on where the bill is going and its timing are made by the government leadership in the Senate. It is beginning to look a lot like the government intends to let Bill C-279 die in the Senate once again.

The final obstacle to achieving protection for transgender Canadians against hate crimes, and I think the real reason gender identity was omitted from the new groups protected in the hate crimes section 12 of Bill C-13, is the failure to recognize not just the fundamental justice of providing equal rights to transgender Canadians, but the failure to recognize both the urgency and the inevitability of doing so.

Transgender Canadians remain the group most discriminated against in Canada. They remain the group most likely to be subject to hate crimes and most disturbingly, they remain the group most likely to be subject to violence when it comes to hate crimes. All transgender Canadians are looking for is the recognition of the same rights that other Canadians already enjoy. We are missing a chance here in Bill C-13 to provide equal protection against hate crimes to transgender Canadians.

There was a time when other Canadians did not enjoy the equality they do today. There were provisions in our law that seem incredible now. There was a time when Asian Canadians could not vote or practise the professions. There was a time when I, as a gay man, could have been jailed for my sexual orientation, fired from my job, or evicted from my housing. Now, fortunately, that time has passed.

I am disappointed, then, that we are missing a chance today to move forward to the time when we look back and cannot imagine that transgendered Canadians did not enjoy the same rights and protections as all other Canadians. I know that day will come, and I will continue to work to make sure it is sooner rather than later.

Motions in AmendmentProtecting Canadians from Online Crime ActGovernment Orders

September 22nd, 2014 / 4:45 p.m.
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NDP

Ève Péclet NDP La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to rise in the House for the second time to speak to Bill C-13, which addresses cyberbullying.

When the government announced Bill C-13 to combat cyberbullying, everyone thought it was a good idea. Perhaps the government had finally come up with a good idea. Everyone here knows that cyberbullying is taking a heavy toll on our youth. The people who work on the front lines—psychoeducators who work in high schools, street outreach workers and everyone else who works with youth—know how bullying can destroy lives, individuals and families. Some cases have made headlines, including the case of young Rehtaeh Parsons. Unfortunately, we know just how far cyberbullying can go. It can lead to suicide. No one in the House would say that we can remain indifferent about an issue as important as cyberbullying.

In the first speech I gave on Bill C-13, I emphasized the need to take action on the ground. I could even draw a parallel with the speech I just gave this morning on Bill C-36. The Conservatives often think they can use justice to solve all the problems inherent in a given situation. In the case of prostitution, for instance, inherent problems include poverty, exclusion and mental illness. The same is true when it comes to bullying. Some of the factors involved in bullying cannot be addressed through criminalization.

The provisions of Bill C-13, which makes it an offence to distribute intimate images, are a good start. In fact, the bill fits in with the bill introduced by my colleague from Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, which aims to prevent the kinds of situations that unfortunately led to the suicides of several young Canadians over the past few years.

Upon closer examination of the bill, one can see that it refers to various subjects ranging from cyberbullying to terrorism, banking information, telemarketing and theft of a telecommunication service.

Most of the provisions have very little if anything to do with cyberbullying. This bill is similar to the Conservatives' previous Bill C-30, which allowed access to Canadians' personal information.

The parliamentary secretary said that it was debated extensively and thoroughly examined in committee. That is all wonderful, except that all the experts agree that the study should have been even more thorough when it comes to the provisions regarding access to information. That is why we asked that the bill be split. Unfortunately, because we ran out of time, the provisions on cyberbullying were not examined much, if at all. We focused on the access to information provisions.

This issue is very important for our young people, and I find it extremely unfortunate that the debate is centred around access to information. That has nothing to do with our young students or the young girl who is being bullied by her classmates or receiving hateful messages on Facebook.

Access to information will have no impact on this girl, or perhaps it will, unfortunately, if the government wants access to her private information, which would be too bad. This is not going to help young people who need their government to work for them and do something about this.

A number of experts said that Bill C-13, together with Bill S-4, might have extremely significant repercussions on access to our private information, including access without a warrant.

I also asked a number of questions about an oversight mechanism. I would like to point out that the Conservatives refused to adopt such a mechanism. My colleague from Gatineau proposed an amendment requiring the department to report to Parliament on the use of this type of power. I would like to note that section 184.4 of the Criminal Code has already been struck down by the Supreme Court, not because the mechanism allowed information obtained without a warrant to be shared, but because application of that section did not include any oversight mechanism or notification mechanism. According to the Supreme Court, the rights of people being wiretapped were intrinsically violated because they did not know they were being tapped. At the end of the day, without an oversight mechanism, we are giving the police and the government power without accountability. We can agree that we are giving nearly absolute power to the minister and police officers to access Canadians' information.

The Supreme Court was clear. I have not even touched on the Supreme Court's recent decision in Spencer, which reiterates that telecommunications companies do not have the right to turn Canadians' private information over without a warrant. It is a violation and it is unconstitutional because there is no oversight mechanism.

I made a comparison with section 188, which was not struck down by the Supreme Court. That section allows for warrantless wiretaps, but it includes an oversight mechanism. The department is therefore obliged to report to Parliament on warrantless wiretapping.

According to the Supreme Court, this is clearly unconstitutional. Unfortunately, the Conservatives refused to adopt our amendments on creating such a reporting mechanism, which is too bad. We can already see that part of the bill will likely be challenged in court or even deemed unconstitutional.

Who will be the main victims of that challenge? My colleague from Gatineau told us several times. The main victims of the Conservatives' incompetence at drafting bills and studying issues thoroughly are the victims of bullying. The main victims will not be parliamentarians, lawyers or judges. No, the main victims will be victims of bullying, who unfortunately will have to wait for a legal challenge—which could take years and could go all the way to the Supreme Court—before justice is served.

I would like to underline the fact that when the Minister of Justice held his press conference, he said that Bill C-13 only legislated on a specific issue, namely cyberbullying. I know of several articles that quoted him as saying that this was not an omnibus bill and that its only purpose was to legislate on cyberbullying.

However, this bill contains a clause that gives not only peace officers, but also public officers access to these powers. Several experts wondered who would have access to these powers. Who would have access to Canadians' information? Would it be only the police, and only in specific situations, or would it be public officers from Revenue Canada in other situations?

This bill is so badly written that, unfortunately, the main victims who will be denied justice will be victims of bullying. Is that really what the Conservative government wants?

Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons ActGovernment Orders

September 22nd, 2014 / 1:45 p.m.
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NDP

Pierre Jacob NDP Brome—Missisquoi, QC

Mr. Speaker, I rise today to speak to Bill C-36, which amends the Criminal Code in order to create an offence that would prohibit purchasing sexual services or communicating in any place for that purpose.

I am very familiar with this bill because I am a member of the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights. In July, our committee studied this bill for five consecutive days and heard from 75 witnesses.

We find that this bill does not comply with the Supreme Court ruling, and therefore we will oppose it. The government should have sent Bill C-36 to the Supreme Court to ensure that it is constitutional. The Minister of Justice said that he expected that Bill C-36 would face a legal challenge. As usual, the Conservatives' bills are designed to garner votes, not improve our society.

We consulted many legal experts, stakeholders and sex workers, as well as the authorities concerned by this legislation. Everyone agrees that Bill C-36 does not stand a good chance of getting by the Supreme Court.

There are many sex workers who choose this profession of their own free will. They must be protected from abuse. However, they are not the ones I am concerned about. What I do worry about is the government's lack of action on fighting poverty, which is the main factor that leads to sexual exploitation.

The measures announced by the Conservatives to help prostitutes exit the sex trade are inadequate. Sweden has adopted the model that criminalizes the buyer of services. Some wrongly claim that Bill C-36 is the Canadian version of the Swedish model. In Sweden, these legislative measures go hand in hand with extremely important social measures. The Swedish model cannot work if the authorities do not have the necessary resources to help people in need because, quite frankly, the main cause of prostitution is poverty.

Many women who have no way out turn to prostitution to survive. Those situations give rise to abuse and violence. What have the Conservative and Liberal government done to fight poverty? Nothing at all.

On the contrary, over the past five years, only 20% of Canadians have seen an increase in their incomes. The other 80% have seen their real income shrink. Households in Canada have the highest level of debt in the entire OECD. It is a disaster. Young people are paying more than ever for tuition and are incurring more debt than ever before. To make matters worse, for the past few years, the federal government has been refusing to invest in social housing. By 2030, $1.7 billion in federal funding for social housing will have been lost. This amounts to 85% of the federal housing budget.

In Canada, more than 620,000 social housing units were provided through long-term agreements, with a lifespan ranging from 25 to 50 years. These agreements allow social housing providers to financially support their tenants to ensure that only about 30% of their income is spent on rent.

In 2014, the federal government is still refusing to renew these agreements as they expire.

If we do not change course by 2030, over three-quarters of the federal education budget will have been cut. However, social housing is one way of getting people out of poverty and out of prostitution. For instance, by spending less than 30% of its income on housing, a needy family can invest more money in education. That is why we will continue to call on this government to renew federal funding for social housing, in order to preserve rent subsidies and provide funds for necessary renovations. Furthermore, to help women get out of prostitution, more needs to be done to treat substance abuse problems. Once again, we are up against this government's failure to act.

The Minister of Justice promised $20 million for treatment and prevention as part of Bill C-36's implementation. However, that amount is not even enough to meet the needs of existing organizations throughout Canada. At the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights, witnesses criticized the cuts made to women's centres. This is on top of the funding cuts to mental health services and other medical services, as well as the absence of sufficient legal aid.

If the government is serious about fighting sexual exploitation, it has to allocate substantial resources. It has to provide these women with income support, as well as education, training and treatment for drug addiction. That is the only way to combat prostitution because criminalizing johns, which Bill C-36 would do, will not put an end to sex work. All that will do is further marginalize it. Marginalization is what leads to exploitation and violence. If johns are criminalized, they will be afraid. They will ask sex workers to meet them in out-of-the-way places. They will force them into different circumstances.

Bill C-36 will make life even more unsafe for many prostitutes. If they cannot advertise their services to persuade the johns to come to them, many more are likely to take to the streets in search of business. This bill will make it much more difficult for sex workers to safely assess and vet their clients and ensure they can meet them in relatively safe places on their own terms.

We believe that this bill is not consistent with the Supreme Court ruling or the charter. The measures announced by the Conservatives to help prostitutes exit the sex trade are inadequate. The government must refer the bill to the Supreme Court. We do not believe it is consistent with the Bedford decision.

Finally, concrete efforts must be made immediately to improve the safety of sex workers and help them exit the sex trade if they are not there by choice. The government must provide significant resources for income support, education and training, poverty alleviation and treatment for addictions for this group of people.

Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons ActGovernment Orders

September 22nd, 2014 / 1:45 p.m.
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NDP

Ève Péclet NDP La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank my colleague for that question.

As I said, the Conservatives' unilateral view is that justice can solve all the problems inherent to a situation. Whether we are talking about prostitution or something else, the activity must be criminalized for it to be controlled.

In their speeches, the government's parliamentary secretaries and the ministers of state clearly said that prostitutes and victims have no choice because, unfortunately, they are extremely poor, are addicted to drugs and may even have mental health issues. However, from what I can see, Bill C-36 does nothing to address those problems. There is no additional money for social housing or mental health treatment. The government is simply criminalizing an activity that, in and of itself, is not illegal.

I would really like it if the Conservatives could tell us how criminalizing something can help people who are dealing with much deeper issues, such as poverty, mental illness or drug addiction. Putting them in prison or criminalizing them will not solve the problem. All of the experts agree. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. It is true that when a crime is committed, the person needs to pay for their actions, but what happens to the victims in that case? Do they get help? No, the government prefers to make it illegal to advertise or buy services. What happens to the victims? Do they get help? No, not at all.

Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons ActGovernment Orders

September 22nd, 2014 / 1:45 p.m.
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NDP

Ève Péclet NDP La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC

Mr. Speaker, I was on the same committee as my esteemed colleague. I can guarantee you that no police officer was able to say that Bill C-36 would bring anything new to the legislation to help victims break free from human exploitation. I guarantee it.

If the member can show me testimony from committee, I will apologize to the House, but I can guarantee you that I have reread my notes, and not a single police officer was able to name a new tool.

The basis of the Supreme Court's ruling was that a person must and may carry out an activity freely and safely, but how can a person do this if everything surrounding the activity is illegal? That is why the court removed those sections from the Criminal Code. The Conservatives are essentially saying that prostitution itself is not illegal, but the purchase of prostitution is. We are going in circles here.

Is this truly in keeping with the basis of the Supreme Court's ruling? No, it is not. The member said that, before, victims could not report to police, which is absolutely not true. The police officers who testified in committee were clear. They had not been arresting prostitutes for years, and they had been working with them precisely to try to combat pimping.

Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons ActGovernment Orders

September 22nd, 2014 / 1:40 p.m.
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Conservative

Joy Smith Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB

Mr. Speaker, I am very anxious to ask some questions, because there is a bit of a vacuum in some of the comments that were made.

Why is Bill C-36 here? It is what we have been talking about all morning. The Supreme Court collapsed the laws. The laws the member was talking about that are in the Criminal Code were actually deemed unconstitutional. The government was asked to take this up and produce a bill that would respond to that. That is the answer to that.

Again, the tools, which I talked to very explicitly, are that now the victims could talk to the police. Just because there is a little provision in section 213 that if they solicit in front of schools, day cares, or kiddie pools, and that kind of thing, they can be moved along does mean they are being arrested. What happens is that often police get them to the police station and explain to them why this is not acceptable.

This is one of the best bills this country has ever put forward to address this terrible problem.

Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons ActGovernment Orders

September 22nd, 2014 / 1:30 p.m.
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NDP

Ève Péclet NDP La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC

Mr. Speaker, I attended the meeting of the special committee that examined Bill C-36.

I would like to point out that we are once again hearing the Conservatives' unilateral view that justice can solve the problems inherent in prostitution.

I have an eye infection. This may not seem to have any relevance to the bill before us. However, yesterday, I went to the pharmacy to get some eye drops, and the pharmacist told me that merely putting one or two drops in my eye would not cure the infection. He said that the infection needed to be treated and that it would take several days for it to be cured.

My Conservative colleagues' remarks about Bill C-36 give the impression that this bill is like some sort of magical cure for an infection that will solve all of the problems in one day. It is as though every victim will be saved, prostitution will be eliminated and all the pimps will be sent to prison on the day Bill C-36 comes into force.

We are not living in a comic strip or a world of make-believe. We are living in a real society. Justice is not the way to eliminate the problems inherent in prostitution. We can put anyone we like in prison but it will not solve the problem. We spoke about poverty, vulnerability and drug use. To my knowledge, Bill C-36 does not address any of those issues.

As I said earlier, I truly admire my colleague for all of the work that she has done for victims of human trafficking and exploitation. The main point of her speech and that of the minister of state was that these people are in an extremely difficult situation. This may be because of family problems, drug problems or poverty. However, regardless of the underlying problems, these people did not make a free choice. How can someone be given the opportunity to make a free and informed decision? They must be given options.

The government would have us believe that these men and women will be able to make a free and informed decision and get out of the situation they now find themselves in. I would be happy if we could all live in utopia and everyone could be equal. However, a bill such as Bill C-36 is not going to resolve the issues of poverty and drug use. The very basis of the Supreme Court's ruling was that no one can freely and safely engage in an activity if everything associated with that activity is illegal. In this case, we are talking about bawdy-houses, pimping and prostitution itself or the issue of soliciting.

The Conservatives are now saying that we should forget about all those offences but that, according to the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Justice, prostitution will be illegal. According to the minister of state, only purchasing the services of a prostitute is illegal. This is not clear.

Does this really respect the basis for the Supreme Court ruling? If we listen carefully to the Conservatives' speeches, some say that prostitution is illegal while others say only purchasing the services is illegal. Does that provide a legal, secure and safe framework for the individuals? That is the question.

According to the witnesses, making illegal everything surrounding a legal activity does not make this activity any safer. That is the very basis for the Supreme Court ruling. Most of the witnesses said, unfortunately, that the bill will be challenged because you cannot criminalize victims for an activity that is not illegal. That is unconstitutional. Even the witnesses invited by the Conservatives to appear before the committee clearly said that the victims cannot be criminalized.

Toughening the laws as they do, without any consideration for the problems inherent in an activity and a situation—I spoke about poverty—does not solve anything.

This bill does not solve anything. As I mentioned, it is like a magical cure for an infection. It does not work. It does not exist. It is like continuing to put a band-aid on a wound that will not heal. We are only adding a legislative framework and that is not a solution to a problem.

My colleague said that victims are now able to report and are able to get out and that we are now offering them the option to do so. Could they not report before?

All of the police officers who testified in front of the committee said that police officers do not prosecute and arrest prostitutes. They do not do it anymore. They have not done it for at least the past seven years. Is she saying that the police officers lied in committee and that they would arrest prostitutes? Is she saying that before they were not able to report, and now they are?

I would like to remind the hon. member that exploitation, rape, and human trafficking are already criminalized under the Criminal Code, and the sentence is jail to life imprisonment.

I would like my colleague to read sections 279.01 and 279.04 again. They are clear: human trafficking and exploitation are illegal. I already asked her the question, but she could not answer me. What new tools would Bill C-36 give to police to get young people out of prostitution? I did not ask about money, for that is another matter entirely.

All 75 witnesses said that $20 million over five years is completely ridiculous. I think the answer was clear. I repeat, 75 out of 75 witnesses, 100%, said that it was completely ridiculous.

When I asked the question, none of the police officers could name a single new tool that Bill C-36 would give them to help the victims of prostitution and human trafficking get out of it. This bill does not provide any new tools. I asked all the police officers who appeared before the committee.

According to the Conservatives, the Criminal Code is ineffective. Does that mean that section 279.04 on exploitation is ineffective? Should we get rid of that section and draft a new one? According to the Conservatives, section 279.01 of the Criminal Code on human trafficking is also ineffective. Does that mean we should take it out of the Criminal Code and draft a new one?

According to the Conservatives, no victims of human trafficking could get out of it before Bill C-36 was introduced. What, then, is the purpose of the Criminal Code? Are police officers incapable of enforcing the existing sections of the Criminal Code? In that case, we are talking about another problem, that is, whether police on the ground have the resources they need to do so. We heard from many police officers, and their message was clear: there is only one person in the police squad for an entire region.

If human trafficking in Canada is so extensive that the Conservatives want to do something, why not allocate more resources to police so they can take action on the ground? As it stands, Bill C-36 simply makes something illegal that may or may not already be illegal, according to the Conservatives. They cannot even give us a straight answer on that.

The minister of state spoke about the defence strategies used by pimps and johns, as she calls them. I must remind her that none of the defence strategies she listed in her speech can be used under the Criminal Code. She talked about drug use. Under the Criminal Code, drug use is clearly not an acceptable defence in a court of law. She also talked about consent. The section of the Criminal Code dealing with rape and sexual assault is clear: even if the victim previously consented to sexual relations, that does not mean that the person consented to rape. All of the examples of defence strategies used by pimps and johns, as she said, are unacceptable and would not work.

Will Bill C-36 truly solve the problems associated with prostitution? Not at all. The bill does not respect the very basis of the court's ruling, which is that people have the right to be safe when carrying out an activity.

Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons ActGovernment Orders

September 22nd, 2014 / 1:25 p.m.
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Conservative

Joy Smith Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB

Mr. Speaker, first of all, my own son is a police officer who works with trafficking victims. He has done that for a number of years. One tool we were talking about the other day that is so important is how victims now have the ability to report abuse to the police.

They would not arrested under Bill C-36. The only place from where they would be asked to move along is in front of schools and playgrounds. That does not mean that they would be formally arrested. In every other place, the victims would have a right to say to the police officer that they have been abused, that this is what is happening to them, and to please help them out. That is a big tool.

What happened before was that the victims were controlled by the pimps and the traffickers. If they went to the police, they were arrested. In fact, before this bill, when there was a takedown, between the pimps and the prostitutes, more prostitutes were arrested than anybody else.

We have to change our language around prostitution. It is modern-day slavery, for the most part. There are very few people who choose to go into something like this. When we stop to think about it, what woman would get beaten, give all of her money to somebody, and then keep silent about it?

This is a huge tool in Bill C-36.

Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons ActGovernment Orders

September 22nd, 2014 / 1:25 p.m.
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NDP

Ève Péclet NDP La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC

Mr. Speaker, I will start by saying how admirable the work is that my colleague has been doing for the past years with victims of exploitation and human trafficking. I would like to commend her for her leadership on the issue.

My question is mostly technical. All the situations the hon. member has described in her speech are already touched on by the Criminal Code. Article 279.04 talks about exploitation, and article 279.01 talks about human trafficking. I would remind the member that the sentence for human trafficking is life in jail.

None of the police officers at the committee were able to name new tools that Bill C-36 would give them to help victims of trafficking. I would like my colleague to name new legislative tools, not only the money, to help people get away from human trafficking.

Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons ActGovernment Orders

September 22nd, 2014 / 1:15 p.m.
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Conservative

Joy Smith Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB

Mr. Speaker, it is my pleasure to speak to Bill C-36. As members know, I am supportive of the bill as a response to the Supreme Court of Canada's December 20, 2013, Bedford decision. In December last year, Canadians received a Christmas present. For the most part, they did not know what was happening as they were busy getting ready for Christmas. The Supreme Court of Canada deemed all of the laws around prostitution unconstitutional. It allowed the government a year to respond to that and there has been a tremendous amount of work that has gone into the bill, including a lot of study of this important legislation. It is possibly one of the most important pieces of legislation and I am totally convinced that it will keep our youth and our people safe.

We heard from a lot of people, including front-line support workers, police services, chiefs, and experts from the legal profession. I must say that Professor Janine Benedet, one of the foremost constitutional lawyers in this country, who had worked on the Bedford case as well, fully expects the bill to be and has said that she firmly believes it is constitutional. As members know, many bills are defeated on a charter challenge. However, without a doubt the bill is constitutional.

I am especially impressed by all of the victims who came to committee and the survivors who came to testify at both committees, because that is what this is all about—survivors finally talking about what happened to them. Human trafficking and prostitution were under the public radar for years. Everyone felt that if young girls or boys sold sexual services that was what they wanted to do. However, at committee we found out it was totally opposite to what the public thought. Why is that? Because more and more families across this country are being impacted by predators who come on as their friends and lure them into the sex trade and then they get into drugs and all sorts of things.

However, they have no voice. Bill C-36 allows those victims of human trafficking and those who have been forced into the sex trade to have a voice and the freedom to come and testify before us. They are the ones who need our attention and protection and we must not forget them.

After sitting around the table listening to these survivors, I would say that every Canadian should read the testimony of that committee because they would learn a lot about what is happening to a lot of children in communities all across this country. We have learned that predators earn about $260,000 to $280,000 a year per victim. That is why they do it. It is all about the money. A lot of the people connected to those predators earn a lot of money too. Hence, what is happening in this country is that a lot of people are protecting their cashflow at the expense of modern-day slavery.

During the hearings, law enforcement agencies also came forward to express their overall support for Bill C-36 and applauded the strong message it sends to all Canadians, which is basically that we will go after the pimps and johns and we will put support systems in place for the victims of human trafficking and those people who have found themselves in the sex trade without ever intending to be there. The police officers agreed that prostitution is an inherently dangerous activity and emphasized a need to prosecute those who profit from the sexual exploitation of others. I spoke earlier about predators making between $260,000 to $280,000 per year, which is a lot of profit. The police also emphasized the need to have in place the necessary tools to protect our communities from the harms of prostitution so that parents do not have to sweep away syringes and condoms from the school grounds of their children.

It is not about arresting victims at all. The only provision within Bill C-36 has to do with schools, playgrounds and pools, right on the grounds themselves. The fact of the matter is that Canadians agree that children should be protected. More and more Canadians in communities across Canada are starting to understand that they are also protecting their own beautiful children and vulnerable children from predators, due to Bill C-36.

We heard a lot of things in committee. We also heard another perspective that said people have rights to choose any profession they want, and, of course, that is true in Canada. However, we listened to the survivors of forced prostitution, human trafficking, and all of those stories that came forward. I cannot help but emphasize the contrast between the stories of the people who said that prostitution is an industry and government is circumventing their rights if it starts addressing it, and the stories of those who have experienced pain, suffering, and victimization while at the mercy of pimps, drug dealers, brothel owners, criminal organizations, and human traffickers. It is just unbelievable. When they bravely came to committee for the first time to tell people what happened to them, it was all we could do to keep our composure.

For someone who has worked with victims of human trafficking and those who were forced into prostitution, it was very profound to see these courageous people get up at committee to talk about it.

Statistics and research show that those who are most vulnerable to becoming involved in prostitution are marginalized, disenfranchised, and vulnerable, and the vulnerable can come from middle-class Canada.

We had many cases across this country where middle-class young people came forward. They were trafficked because of the way that the predators operate. They come on as their boyfriends, and they believed they were in love and that nobody wanted to exploit them. It never crossed their minds, until all their identification was taken away and they were forced to sexually service men or women. Those are vulnerable people.

We also speak to the homeless and those who have suffered abuse as young children or have suffered from addictions. A lot of those young, underaged people who are victimized are not addicts when they go into it. It is to camouflage their pain and to get through the day that it happens.

It is critical that Bill C-36 prioritizes this vulnerable group that people are talking about more and more, to protect them from harm.

It has been seen in many countries, many jurisdictions, that targeting the johns and the pimps is the right thing to do. In this country, human trafficking and forced prostitution was under the public radar screen for a very long time. We hear over and over again that $40 million is not enough. Well, it is a very good start.

Provinces, municipalities, and others need to contribute to this as well. Bill C-36 would address, in a very bold way, a problem that has remained under the public radar screen for a very long time. It is not about taking away some person's right to choose whatever profession they want to be in; that is up to consenting adults. That is not what the bill is about. The bill is about making sure that these vulnerable populations I have been talking about are protected, that they have a chance, even if they are caught in the horrible trafficking or forced prostitution field. Now they are protected because they are able to report the abuse to the police and they are able to get out and be rehabilitated.

I am very proud of Bill C-36. I am very proud of what our government is doing. A lot of people across this nation are listening to this debate and listening to what other people have to say, on all sides of the House. There is a very strong contrast between our government, which is standing up for the vulnerable, and those who are not on the other side of the House.

Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons ActGovernment Orders

September 22nd, 2014 / 1:10 p.m.
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Mississauga—Erindale Ontario

Conservative

Bob Dechert ConservativeParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Justice

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the Liberal justice critic for his speech and for his participation in the House of Commons justice committee proceedings this summer.

First, I would like to respond to something he mentioned in his speech. He said no lawyers, other than government lawyers, confirmed the constitutionality of Bill C-36. That is not true. Professor Benedet of UBC, one of Canada's foremost constitutional law experts, certainly did confirm that it was constitutional, as did several other lawyers. If he has forgotten, I would be happy to share the transcript of the parliamentary committee's work with him.

My question, though, for him is the same question I proposed to the NDP, which responded, when asked what it would do, that it will wait and find out. We do not know what either of these parties would do with respect to prostitution. What is the Liberal Party's position? Would it propose a bill to make the purchase of the sexual services of another person illegal in Canada?

Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons ActGovernment Orders

September 22nd, 2014 / 1 p.m.
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Liberal

Sean Casey Liberal Charlottetown, PE

Mr. Speaker, I rise in the House today to speak to Bill C-36 at report stage. I stated in the last session that the bill would likely be unconstitutional. This was confirmed by virtually all of the legal witnesses who testified at committee with the exception of the minister and those employed by his department.

Let there be no doubt that this unconstitutional bill will pass the House because the Conservatives hold a majority of the seats in the House. Once it has completed its perfunctory process here at report stage and then third reading, the legislation will proceed to the Senate. That chamber is also controlled by the Conservative majority, and it was decided that it would undertake a pre-study of the bill, meaning that even before the legislation is passed in the House, the Senate Conservatives were holding hearings. Senator Linda Frum was quoted in the media today confirming that any changes to the bill were highly unlikely.

Please allow me to provide an overview of what has transpired with the issue of prostitution, including an overview of the legislative process to date.

As it currently stands, prostitution is legal in Canada and has been since 1892 when the Criminal Code was first enacted. It was the activities surrounding prostitution that were illegal until the Supreme Court ruling in Bedford. Specifically, the Criminal Code outlined communicating in public for the purpose of prostitution, living on the avails of prostitution and operating a common bawdy house, otherwise known as a brothel.

By way of background, it is critical to reference the famous Bedford case, the reason we are here today. In its landmark court case, a group of sex workers brought forth a charter challenge arguing that those three aforementioned provisions of the Criminal Code put, in the view of sex workers, their safety and security at risk, thereby violating their charter rights. In its landmark decision last December, the Supreme Court of Canada agreed with those sex workers and struck down those three Criminal Code provisions, determining that they violated section 7 of the charter, which protects life, liberty and security of the person.

The Supreme Court suspended the ruling from coming into force for a period of one year to give Parliament the opportunity to enact new legislation if it chose to do so. This past June, the Attorney General introduced Bill C-36, a legislative response to the Supreme Court's ruling.

As I have stated, prior to the committee hearings in July, I share the consensus view of legal commentators who strongly believe Bill C-36 is unconstitutional in whole or in part. I do not believe the legislation complies with the Supreme Court ruling. Nor do I believe it complies with the charter. Furthermore, I indicated that the legislation might very well put sex workers at a greater risk of harm or worse.

The Conservatives claimed that they consulted widely about the bill without providing evidence of these consultations. They further claimed that they checked that Bill C-36 was charter compliant, again, without producing evidence in the form of legal opinion despite repeated requests.

The Conservatives rejected a request to refer the question of the bill's constitutionality to the Supreme Court of Canada. They claim to have relied upon evidence in the form of an online survey of Canadians. This survey is really a pretty obvious effort to provide cover from the inevitable critique that they once again defaulted to ideology in crafting the bill. This survey is passed off as evidence by Conservatives.

The Conservatives fail to mention how unscientific online surveys are, especially when the possibility of organized interest groups target the survey in order to skew the results. Is this really what Canadians want from their government, conducting surveys with inherent flaws as the basis for making serious changes in law, or even more worrisome, as the basis of responding to a Supreme Court's decision? Yet we have the spectacle of the Minister of Justice waving around this survey as some sort of conclusive evidence of the current thinking of Canadians.

Then there is the $175,000 Ipsos Reid poll the government commissioned seeking the actual views of Canadians about prostitution. Time and again, the Liberal Party and my colleagues in the official opposition called on government to release that poll, a real poll, to Canadians and to do so before the parliamentary hearings, held this past July. The minister steadfastly opposed releasing the contents of that poll, despite the fact that the information contained might have been helpful to the justice committee's deliberations. In fact, at committee, when questioned about releasing the data from the poll, the only substantive comment came from a Department of Justice official, who said the poll contained useful information in crafting the bill.

Let us recap again. The Conservatives create a ruse. They create a scientifically unreliable website-based survey and use that as evidence. At the same time, they have in their possession actual evidence from their Ipsos Reid poll, evidence that they refuse to release to Parliament or to MPs serving on the justice committee. At the parliamentary hearings last July, I asked the minister about this poll and why he would not release that evidence. Allow me to highlight the exchange because most members would not be familiar with some of the exchanges at committee.

Here is an excerpt from the official parliamentary record of that exchange.

I asked the minister:

I want to come back to [the member for Gatineau's] question with respect to the $175,000 survey or poll that was done by Ipsos Reid. You have indicated that we're going to be able to see it once these hearings are over. Mr. Minister, you have the power to allow us to see that sooner, do you not?

The Minister responded:

The survey itself was not particular to this question of prostitution only, and so there is a normal six-month time period that is invoked for when that polling information will be released. I should note for the record...that you're aware there have been other surveys done and other polling information available that has been released or is in the public domain.

I asked:

Mr. Minister, do you have the power to abridge the time in which we see this $175,000 Ipsos Reid survey? Do you have the power to give that to us before we examine all these witnesses?

The Minister responded:

There is a six-month timeframe that we will respect.

I persisted:

So you have the power, but you're deciding not to exercise it?

He responded:

I didn't say that. I said we'll respect the six-month timeframe.

I asked him:

Do you have the power to abridge it?

He said:

We'll release it when the six-month timeframe is up.

I said:

Is that a yes or a no?

He said:

We'll release it when the six-month timeframe is up....

I asked him again:

You won't tell me whether or not you have the power to abridge it, but if you do, you're not going to exercise it.

He responded:

What I'm telling you is that you'll have the information when the six-month period is up.

There it is: Conservative obstruction in full view. The Minister of Justice repeatedly refused to release that evidence before the justice committee, evidence he knew completely contradicted the government's line about Canadians' views on prostitution. We can only conclude that information, that evidence, was purposely withheld from Parliament and concealed from MPs serving on the justice committee. It was withheld because that evidence tore a gaping hole in their false narrative.

We now know that shortly after the parliamentary hearings on Bill C-36 were completed, some brave whistleblower leaked the contents of the Ipsos Reid poll to the Toronto Star. It is very clear why the Conservatives did not want the Ipsos Reid poll made public. Contrary to the misinformation of the Conservatives, the evidence in the poll suggested Canadians were very much split on the subject.

As I have said before, the Conservatives are entitled to their own ideology and their own opinions. They are not, however, entitled to their own facts. Withholding key evidence from the committee was deliberate, and that should trouble any Canadian who values honesty and integrity regardless of what side of the prostitution debate she or he may fall on.

I will leave it at that for now. I look forward to the third-reading debate, where I will go over and highlight what the justice committee heard at our hearings in July.

Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons ActGovernment Orders

September 22nd, 2014 / 12:45 p.m.
See context

NDP

Françoise Boivin NDP Gatineau, QC

Mr. Speaker, some moments in our careers take on a certain importance because of the wide-reaching consequences of the decision we have to make. Since Bill C-36 was introduced, and in fact since the Supreme Court rendered its decision in the Bedford case, we knew that something was coming. I believe that everyone with an interest in this issue, on both sides, was contacted for consultation purposes. Whether it was stakeholders at all levels, sex trade workers, feminist groups that are opposed to the sex trade, or legal and constitutional experts, we met with almost everyone in Canada.

The approach I recommended on behalf of the NDP was to be as open-minded as possible. Everyone has their own perceptions and experiences, everyone was raised in a certain way, and so on. We are therefore trying not to let those views take on a life of their own and influence us. I was hoping that the government would do the same, because obviously, that is what I would expect from any justice minister and attorney general of Canada. That office holder has an obligation to introduce constitutional laws. We all know that law is not an exact science, so I am not asking for a 100% guarantee. However, some things hit us right between the eyes and make us realize that a particularly obvious problem is being created.

In any case, it has become quite obvious. The minister, who spoke just before me, mentioned $20 million in social transfers. For me, such transfers are an indication of good faith and a firm conviction in the measure that is being put forward. We heard from many people in committee. I counted some 75 witnesses. All of them, whether they were for or against Bill C-36, were unanimous in saying that $20 million over five years was a joke. Take for example the Manitoba justice minister. He talked about this problem in his province. We know that there is a serious problem in Manitoba with regard to forced prostitution and that it affects many aboriginal women. Poverty is a major issue here. This is an even bigger problem across the nation. Given the magnitude of the problem, $20 million over five years is a joke.

I will not get into all the arguments I will surely hear from my colleagues across the way to the effect that this is a start. If the Conservatives are serious and want as many people as possible on their side, they must show how serious they are with action. When the minister presented his bill at a press conference, it seemed like an afterthought. That really bothers me, because the Conservatives lack credibility in what they do.

Some of their other tactics also undermine their credibility and scare me even more. I am talking about online consultations. I was not born yesterday. I know that claiming to have consulted everyone around and saying that everyone agrees is the oldest trick in the book for a government that wants to get its way. The government has every right to do that, and I would even say it is a good idea. I am all for consultations. I too consulted the people of Gatineau a number of times to find what they thought of all this in order to be sure that the position of the member for Gatineau and the position of the official opposition justice critic sat well with the people she represents. Above all else, the most important thing to me is being the member for Gatineau and representing my constituents. The people told me that I was on the right track.

At committee stage, when we were studying this bill, we asked the minister if we could see the results of this grand online consultation. We knew the results were available, and we wanted to see all the details and the poll paid for by Canadian taxpayers. There was some indication that the results did not say exactly what the government was suggesting.

I will not describe the answers received, as I would be kicked out of the House of Commons. Some were simply unacceptable, such as when I was told that I would receive a response in due course. For the government, that meant when the committee finished studying the matter. The important information is conspicuous for its absence. For me, that is an indication of the government's lack of transparency on such volatile issues as safety. In fact, that is an aspect that has been virtually eliminated.

I referred to 75 witnesses, but we should not get excited and imagine that the study was uncommonly thorough. The study was done fairly quickly. In fact, it took place over a very short period of time and each intervenor had very little time. In total, five minutes were allocated for putting questions to constitutional experts, probably lawyers, who are one hundred times smarter than I am on this issue, to get a true sense of what is happening. Fortunately, we had done a large part of the work beforehand and during the study. We will continue working on this and trying to make the government understand that it is on the wrong track.

We presented amendments because that is what the job of all opposition parties, but especially that of the official opposition. As I said earlier, most of the amendments were deemed to be in order. Thus, they could have been debated and would have improved a bill that is indeed very harsh.

I was proud to propose an amendment, on behalf of the NDP, that would have prevented victims from having a criminal record. The Conservative government is always talking about sex workers as victims. If they are victims, their criminal record should be erased. Someone cannot be both a victim and a criminal. However, since there is nothing the Conservatives cannot do, they achieved the amazing feat of declaring these people to be victims and, at the same time, criminalizing them so that they are stuck with a criminal record.

Simple amendments like that would have given them the opportunity to put their money where their mouth is. They refused. Amendments to reflect what all kinds of witnesses came to tell us were refused. These witnesses told us that extreme poverty and addiction are two of the major problems that lead people into prostitution. We tried to propose an amendment.

Aside from the phrase “...in response to...Bedford...”, there is nothing to show that this bill is truly a response to what the Supreme Court told us, which is that this is a serious problem. This is nowhere to be seen in the bill's preamble. There is no mention of it. Three sections were rejected by the Supreme Court, on the grounds that they were infringing on the right to security and to life. That is not insignificant. The bill needs to be evaluated from that perspective.

I proposed an amendment on behalf of the NDP. The Conservatives claim that they are going to eradicate prostitution. There could be a study every two years. Every year, the minister would have the opportunity to share with the House the details of what was done, of what was spent by whom and so on. No, once again, transparency is noticeably absent from the Conservative ranks.

To conclude, I would simply like to point out that the government was under no obligation to come back with Bill C-36. The Supreme Court of Canada was very clear: The question under section 7 is whether anyone's life, liberty or security of the person has been denied by a law that is inherently bad; a grossly disproportionate, overboard, or arbitrary effect on one person is sufficient to establish a breach of section 7.

The Supreme Court concluded that this does not mean that Parliament is precluded from imposing limits on where and how prostitution may be conducted, as long as it does so in a way that does not infringe the constitutional rights of prostitutes. We have been told that it will infringe on their rights. It is a delicate topic, and it is up to Parliament to take the necessary steps, should it choose to do so. There is therefore no obligation.

Stop saying that the Bedford ruling is behind Bill C-36, that there was no other choice and that there had to be a full-scale study because there would have been problems otherwise. I would not want to take the blame for the consequences this bill will have on many people. Do not forget that anything labelled “human trafficking” and “exploitation” is still part of the Criminal Code, which protects women and other victims of these crimes.

Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons ActGovernment Orders

September 22nd, 2014 / 12:40 p.m.
See context

NDP

Françoise Boivin NDP Gatineau, QC

Mr. Speaker, I thank my hon. colleague across the way.

I would like to get some answers to some very specific questions. On the one hand, I would like to know whether the member thinks that this is a way to make prostitution illegal. Is prostitution illegal in Canada? If the answer is yes, she no longer has to answer the rest of my questions. If the answer is no, without hearing any comparisons to alcohol, I am still trying to understand how purchasing something can be a crime but selling it is not.

While keeping in mind the current Criminal Code provisions on human trafficking and exploitation, which still exist without the three small clauses in question that were addressed by the Supreme Court of Canada, if the police have not been capable of doing the job when it comes to the exploitation of women who are in this business against their will, why does the member think that sex workers will be any safer with Bill C-36? Does she agree with the $20 million sum, when everyone else is saying that that is completely ridiculous?

Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons ActGovernment Orders

September 22nd, 2014 / 12:30 p.m.
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Calgary Centre-North Alberta

Conservative

Michelle Rempel ConservativeMinister of State (Western Economic Diversification)

Mr. Speaker, what was just said aside, there is something that has not been adequately debated in this House, and that is using the statement “what two consenting adults do between them is not the state's concern” as an underpinning to argue that the asymmetrical criminalization that has been put forward through this bill is not an adequate response to the Bedford ruling.

That is because the concept of sexual consent is at the heart of the statement. Our Criminal Code provides a standard definition for “sex without consent” under section 273.1. Some of the provisions include:

(a) the agreement is expressed by the words or conduct of a person other than the complainant; (b) the complainant is incapable of consenting to the activity;

There are other provisions.

Through case law, we have seen that a sexual assault offence is established by the proof of three elements: touching, the sexual nature of the content, and the absence of consent.

Furthermore, case law has shown that the absence of consent is subjective by reference to the complainant's internal state of mind towards the touching at the time it occurred.

Beyond this criminal definition of sexual consent is the work that groups involved with prevention of sexual assault have been doing to educate the public on the relationship between knowing and celebrating one's sexuality in order to define the boundaries of consent.

I had a transformational moment last week. I had a chance to speak with Elsbeth Mehrer of the YWCA of Calgary. I asked her, “What do you define as sexual consent?” She talked about an enthusiastic response that is exhibited by both parties.

I am also very proud of the work of the University of Calgary's consent, awareness, and sexual education club. They ran a “Consent is Sweet” campaign to bring this more accurate, in my opinion, concept of sexual consent to their student body.

Since time immemorial, empowered, educated, enthusiastic sexuality, particularly female sexuality, has been written into literature, social mores, and religious practice as an evil, something to be avoided for fear of ripping the very fabric of society. It has only been in very recent decades that western culture, particularly through the feminist movement, has enshrined a new view of consent into our consciousness, yet we still struggle to protect this, from “rapey” chants at frosh week to requests for female airport security officers to be segregated. We as a culture are still challenged with the full acceptance of empowered, equitable sexuality.

Furthermore, at the heart of this new notion of sexual consent is the concept of equality, the concept that all parties are in equilibrium from a power dynamic perspective.

I feel that as such, the “what two consenting adults do” argument is flawed, as there is an overwhelming burden of proof that a large majority of sex workers are not in an equitable position.

Be it a young worker who entered into the trade before having an opportunity to define what an enthusiastic response means in terms of their own sexuality, workers who are selling out of desperation to make the rent, to support substance abuse, to support their children or any other determinant of poverty, or workers who are suffering from mental health issues, there is not equality in the power balance between the parties. In most such situations, I would argue that true sexual consent, this enthusiasm that Elsbeth speaks about and that we are striving as a culture to enshrine, is difficult to achieve.

In demonstrating this, several studies based on surveys or anecdotal evidence from sex worker advocates and service providers suggest that the prevalence of sexual assault in the sex industry is high, particularly in the case of street-level workers.

A 2005 Vancouver study said that 78% of these workers had been raped in prostitution. Studies carried in the mid-1990s by the Department of Justice showed that physical and sexual assaults on prostitutes were commonly carried out by clients, pimps, or boyfriends.

In 2003, the Australian Centre for the Study of Sexual Assault published a briefing entitled “What lies behind the hidden figure of sexual assault? Issues of prevalence and disclosure”. It discusses the notion that women working in the sex industry are at a greater risk of sexual violence. The paper also briefly provides information about the treatment of sex workers by the courts and the judiciary in sexual assault cases.

We know that sexual assault is under-reported in general, I believe even more so in the case of sex workers. One of the issues raised in response to sex workers not reporting sexual assault is that they are afraid of being charged with prostitution-related offences as a result of making a statement. They also indicate that being exposed as a sex worker to friends and family is another reason to not report the incident to the police.

When we look at case law, defence strategies generally consist of attacking the credibility of the victim. I looked at some case law involving prostitutes, from 2004 to 2014, and these were some of the defence strategies:

The complainant consented on previous and future occasions.

The complainant is a drug addict and was under the influence when the sexual activities took place, suffers from depression, or cannot recollect the events due to memory lapses.

The complainant continued to work as a prostitute for many years after the event; therefore, she consented to the activity and was not traumatized.

How do these defences demonstrate our culture's acceptance of the value of full, enthusiastic, empowered sexual consent?

In the research completed for me by the Library of Parliament, several court cases showed the difficulty of defining consent in the context of case work. In R. v. House, R. v. Dyck, R. v. Lumsden, and R. v. Jakeer, the courts noticed that sex workers are particularly vulnerable and are entitled to the full measure of protection of the law, as is any other person. The review of cases tended to show that there was no general trend of the judicial interpretation of consent by sex workers. In this context, it seems that the consent of prostitutes is determined by the courts on a case-by-case basis.

I would like to read part of a ruling from the Ontario Court of Justice in relation to sexual assault with a sex worker.

In the circumstances of this case, although I am prepared to accept that she may have had grave misgivings and was in fact not consenting; her words and actions were such that a reasonable person might have an honest but mistaken belief as to her consent. She got into the car, asked for the money agreed upon and then apparently willingly complied with the sexual requests of these young men. I do not agree with the Crown's submission that the young men had any obligation to ask her if she was consenting to sexual contact when they entered the car. It was reasonable for them to assume that she was consenting when she met them with a request for the $30 fee before engaging in sexual activity and never by word or action indicated that she was not consenting to continue. Surely it is not the law that a client of a prostitute has to continually ask whether the acts engaged in are consensual....

I wish I had time to read this whole ruling because given rulings like this, websites which rate sex workers include comments like, “She didn't look at me when we were doing it”. “She cried a bit halfway through”.

I am not of the view that any person has a God-given right to have access to the purchase of sex or that the purchase of sex should in and of itself define sexual consent. To protect sex workers in this country, we need to stop and acknowledge that this is a fundamental flaw in any argument for the legalization of prostitution. By legalizing prostitution, we would degrade a hard-fought cultural understanding of the worth of humans and our sexuality, and make it harder for the victims of sexual assault, even those who are sex workers, to seek recompense and heal.

However, this is not to say that sex workers are in every instance incapable of giving consent. In contrast, by adopting Bill C-36 and the related funding we have announced, our country acknowledges we have the right to consent over what we choose to do with our bodies but that the burden of proof is overwhelming and shows that the majority of sex workers are degraded, assaulted, and abused. As such, we as a society and a nation recognize that the purchase of sexual services is an action we believe is criminal.

In the committee hearings, one of the witnesses spoke to the asymmetrical provisions and asked where it is that you can purchase something legally but not buy it legally, and why don't we do that with booze?

Well, a bottle of booze is not a human being. I believe that in order for us to show that we as a country have moved beyond a very limited range of sexual consent and that we as a culture believe in an empowered, willing, enthusiastic sexual consent definition, this proposed law needs to be adopted.

Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons ActGovernment Orders

September 22nd, 2014 / 12:30 p.m.
See context

Green

Elizabeth May Green Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. justice critic for the official opposition, who has done such strong work in so many areas of law in the country.

I and the Green Party think the kind of law we need is probably found most closely in the New Zealand law. I expected, by the way, to see something closer to what is described as the Nordic model. I did not expect to see so many areas in Bill C-36 that would criminalize behaviour in ways that would increase the risk for people in the sex trade industry.

However, having studied the Nordic model and the New Zealand model, we prefer the law that goes furthest in ensuring that the activities in the sex trade industry lose their stigma. We should be able to say that someone in the sex trade industry or someone who works for them—in, for example, security or scheduling or health care—is not stigmatized. Then we can concentrate on people who are in the sex trade because of addiction problems, or on those under 19, or on foreign workers. God help us; what a horrific case there is of sex trafficking and human trafficking. We should focus on those and eliminate them.

Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons ActGovernment Orders

September 22nd, 2014 / 12:25 p.m.
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NDP

Françoise Boivin NDP Gatineau, QC

Mr. Speaker, I thank my Green Party colleague.

I am very happy to be part of the committee that studied Bill C-36 very closely. Several amendments were proposed, and many of them were ruled in order.

There was a debate about the amendments. Clearly, the government had no interest in accepting them, but the resulting debates were interesting. With a little good will, committee members could have mitigated the potentially negative impact of the bill as written by the government.

At the beginning of her speech, my colleague from the Green Party said that she thought the minister would have presented something that would have been in answer to the Bedford ruling, so I would like to ask the hon. member what, in her opinion, would have been the proper answer to that ruling.

Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons ActGovernment Orders

September 22nd, 2014 / 12:15 p.m.
See context

Green

Elizabeth May Green Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC

moved:

Motion No. 1

That Bill C-36 be amended by deleting the long title.

Motion No. 2

That Bill C-36 be amended by deleting the preamble.

Motion No. 3

That Bill C-36 be amended by deleting Clause 1.

Motion No. 4

That Bill C-36 be amended by deleting Clause 2.

Motion No. 5

That Bill C-36 be amended by deleting Clause 3.

Motion No. 6

That Bill C-36 be amended by deleting Clause 4.

Motion No. 7

That Bill C-36 be amended by deleting Clause 5.

Motion No. 8

That Bill C-36 be amended by deleting Clause 6.

Motion No. 9

That Bill C-36 be amended by deleting Clause 7.

Motion No. 10

That Bill C-36 be amended by deleting Clause 8.

Motion No. 11

That Bill C-36 be amended by deleting Clause 9.

Motion No. 12

That Bill C-36 be amended by deleting Clause 10.

Motion No. 13

That Bill C-36 be amended by deleting Clause 11.

Motion No. 14

That Bill C-36 be amended by deleting Clause 12.

Motion No. 15

That Bill C-36 be amended by deleting Clause 13.

Motion No. 16

That Bill C-36 be amended by deleting Clause 14.

Motion No. 17

That Bill C-36 be amended by deleting Clause 15.

Motion No. 18

That Bill C-36 be amended by deleting Clause 16.

Motion No. 19

That Bill C-36 be amended by deleting Clause 17.

Motion No. 20

That Bill C-36 be amended by deleting Clause 18.

Motion No. 21

That Bill C-36 be amended by deleting Clause 19.

Motion No. 22

That Bill C-36 be amended by deleting Clause 20.

Motion No. 23

That Bill C-36 be amended by deleting Clause 21.

Motion No. 24

That Bill C-36 be amended by deleting Clause 22.

Motion No. 25

That Bill C-36 be amended by deleting Clause 23.

Motion No. 26

That Bill C-36 be amended by deleting Clause 24.

Motion No. 27

That Bill C-36 be amended by deleting Clause 25.

Motion No. 28

That Bill C-36 be amended by deleting Clause 26.

Motion No. 29

That Bill C-36 be amended by deleting Clause 27.

Motion No. 30

That Bill C-36 be amended by deleting Clause 28.

Motion No. 31

That Bill C-36 be amended by deleting Clause 29.

Motion No. 32

That Bill C-36 be amended by deleting Clause 30.

Motion No. 33

That Bill C-36 be amended by deleting Clause 31.

Motion No. 34

That Bill C-36 be amended by deleting Clause 32.

Motion No. 35

That Bill C-36 be amended by deleting Clause 33.

Motion No. 36

That Bill C-36 be amended by deleting Clause 34.

Motion No. 37

That Bill C-36 be amended by deleting Clause 35.

Motion No. 38

That Bill C-36 be amended by deleting Clause 36.

Motion No. 39

That Bill C-36 be amended by deleting Clause 37.

Motion No. 40

That Bill C-36 be amended by deleting Clause 38.

Motion No. 41

That Bill C-36 be amended by deleting Clause 39.

Motion No. 42

That Bill C-36 be amended by deleting Clause 40.

Motion No. 43

That Bill C-36 be amended by deleting Clause 41.

Motion No. 44

That Bill C-36 be amended by deleting Clause 42.

Motion No. 45

That Bill C-36 be amended by deleting Clause 43.

Motion No. 46

That Bill C-36 be amended by deleting Clause 44.

Motion No. 47

That Bill C-36 be amended by deleting Clause 45.

Motion No. 48

That Bill C-36 be amended by deleting Clause 45.1.

Motion No. 49

That Bill C-36 be amended by deleting Clause 46.

Motion No. 50

That Bill C-36 be amended by deleting Clause 47.

Motion No. 51

That Bill C-36 be amended by deleting Clause 48.

Motion No. 52

That Bill C-36 be amended by deleting Clause 49.

Mr. Speaker, it is rare, and members of the House will know it, standing as the leader of the Green Party of Canada and member of Parliament for Saanich—Gulf Islands, that I have not availed myself of the opportunity to present amendments at committee stage under new rules that were adopted last fall. I have objected to the opportunity because it has not amounted to a real chance to amend legislation.

Nevertheless, on bills that I find disturbing, I have gone to every committee with amendments of a substantive nature. In the case of Bill C-36, I found I could not find a way to amend the bill in a way that would actually fix it. That is why, Mr. Speaker, I appreciate that you have now read out attempts to delete the entire bill based on it being unfixable.

How do we find ourselves here? As we all know, the Supreme Court of Canada ruled in the Bedford decision that our existing laws relating to prostitution were unconstitutional as they violated the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

Section 7 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms is an important sentence that constitutes a fundamental principle for all Canadians: “Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of the person and the right not to be deprived thereof except in accordance with the principles of fundamental justice.”

In the Bedford case, the Supreme Court determined that Canadian laws and the Criminal Code are inconsistent with this section of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms with respect to sex workers who are threatened by current Canadian laws.

With the Supreme Court saying that our laws relating to prostitution did not adequately protect the rights of security of the person for people who found themselves in this very marginalized and difficult place in their lives and that they were even more marginalized, even more stigmatized and driven into the shadows by the status of laws over prostitution in Canada, it was up to us, as Parliament, to come up with an approach that would respect, would protect and would ensure that people in the sex trade industry were not driven into the shadows.

After Bedford, I thought we would see a response from Parliament, a response from the Minister of Justice, that took into account the message from the Supreme Court of Canada.

Ironically, earlier this morning, I attended an international symposium on the subject of gender violence and health. The symposium is taking place a few blocks from here, at the Novotel, on Nicholas Street. Researchers from across Canada are presenting research on this topic, with people from around the world. It is a collaborative social science project in Canada on gender violence and health. It was funded by the Canadian Institutes of Health Research.

I was able to stay long enough, before coming here to debate Bill C-36, to hear the preliminary findings of that work being done across Canada. I was pleased to see that members from my own part of the world, from University of Victoria and from the city of Victoria Police Department had all participated in this work.

Their area of research was restricted to people in the sex trade industry who were over 19 and who were not part of the quite horrific trafficking in people who did not have rights. I want to make it really clear that in the Green Party's stance against Bill C-36, we believe the full measure of the law should be used to crack down on anyone who is exploiting minors and people in sex trafficking. We believe laws in that area must be strengthened and that the laws are adequate, even as they now stand, to differentiate the situations between prostitution, in general, and this group of exploited workers under 19 who are trafficked internationally and lack the rights they should have under the law.

Research has been done that is being reported on just today, as I mentioned. It was funded by the Canadian Institutes of Health Research. It was collaborative work done in six different cities across Canada by some of our best social science researchers, who examined the lives of sex trade workers who were not under the age of 19 or involved in human trafficking.

What the institute found as a foundational piece of information in early research is intuitive and is what the Supreme Court of Canada understood. It is that any laws that are punitive in nature, anything that in our social context that would further stigmatize sex trade work, means that the people conducting themselves in that work are more vulnerable and are less able to access the supports and protections found in our society.

The Supreme Court of Canada decision made it clear what Parliament needed to do: Parliament needed to find a way to ensure that people in the sex trade industry were not driven into the shadows and were not further stigmatized.

This is a tragedy, because we are talking about people's lives. We are not just talking about slogans for election campaigns or going for some sort of core vote from Conservative Party supporters. This issue transcends partisanship. This is about Parliament being asked by the Supreme Court of Canada to ensure that section 7 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms is respected when we bring forth laws that deal with prostitution.

On that fundamental requirement for our laws, Bill C-36 stands as a singular failure. It would absolutely not make the life of sex trade workers more secure. It goes in the wrong direction. As numerous legal commentators have noted, this law would make the sex trade more dangerous.

Just to give a sense of why that is, I would like to quote comments made by the Minister of Justice at a press conference on the day that Bill C-36 was tabled back in June. I am going to quote from an exchange that he had with a reporter.

The Minister of Justice said:

Some prostitutes we know are younger than 18 years of age. If they are in the presence of one another at 3:00 in the morning and are selling sexual services, they would be subject to arrest.

A reporter then asked:

That would still be considered a criminal offence?

The response from the Minister of Justice was:

That’s correct. They’re selling it in the presence of a minor.

The reporter said:

Okay, so if two 17-year-old prostitutes are standing side by side in the middle of the night in what is considered a public place, they will be committing an offence.

The response by the Minister of Justice:

And selling sex, yes.

A reporter said:

That’s effectively making them stay on their own and endangering furthering their own security.

The Minister of Justice:

Not at all. We’re not making them do anything. We’re not forcing them to sell sex.

That is a response in the absence of reality. If we are to take the Supreme Court's decision in the Bedford case seriously, then we should do everything possible to allow people in the sex trade industry to be with each other, to be near each other, to be protecting each other. There is a distinction between being on the street and indoor sex work. Anything that drives people in the sex trade industry onto the street and into the shadows is going to make their lives more dangerous.

This goes to the next piece of Bill C-36, which is likely unconstitutional: banning advertisement for sexual services and banning communicating for the purchasing of sex in particular.

Bill C-36 states that all of it would be illegal unless the sex trade workers are communicating directly. In other words, publishing their ads would be illegal. This again would force a prostitute to lose the intermediary. It would force the sex trade worker to lose the possibility of some form of screening, some way of ensuring they are not face-to-face in the shadows negotiating their situation. It would make their lives much more dangerous.

The decision in Bedford gave us guidance on this issue. The court said in Bedford:

By prohibiting communicating in public for the purpose of prostitution, the law prevents prostitutes from screening clients and setting terms for the use of condoms or safe houses. In these ways, it significantly increases the risks they face.

Bill C-36 is written as though the Supreme Court of Canada has given us no guidance, as though we are blundering around not imagining the narrowness of the ways in which communicating or advertising would remain legal in Canada.

It is as though the Bedford decision gave us no guidance, because what they have come up with is aimed at a new offence of advertising sexual services and is undoubtedly going to make life more dangerous for sex trade workers.

I could go on and on, but I know my time is at an end.

I just want to say that this law will only make the lives of hundreds of sex workers more difficult and more dangerous.

Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons ActGovernment Orders

September 22nd, 2014 / 12:10 p.m.
See context

Conservative

The Acting Speaker Conservative Barry Devolin

There are 52 motions in amendment standing on the notice paper for the report stage of Bill C-36. Motions Nos. 1 to 52 will be grouped for debate and voted upon according to the voting pattern available at the table.

I will now put Motions Nos. 1 to 52 to the House.

Business of the HouseGovernment Orders

September 18th, 2014 / 3:15 p.m.
See context

York—Simcoe Ontario

Conservative

Peter Van Loan ConservativeLeader of the Government in the House of Commons

Mr. Speaker, let me welcome you and everyone back to the House for the autumn sitting. I know it will be a hard-working, orderly, and productive sitting because there is much work that we have to do.

This afternoon, we will resume third reading debate on Bill C-3, safeguarding Canada's seas and skies act. Tomorrow, we will have the final day of third reading debate on Bill C-8, combating counterfeit products act.

Monday, at noon, we will start the report stage of Bill C-36, the Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons Act. In the afternoon, we will start the report stage of Bill C-13, the Protecting Canadians from Online Crime Act.

Tuesday, as I announced at the start of the week, shall be the second allotted day. This will be an opportunity for the leader of the Liberal Party to put forward a proposal for some new initiative. This week we saw the New Democrats do that. As much as their idea was neither bold nor responsible, it was a motion which let us have a debate on the merits of an idea. I hope the hon. member for Papineau will be inspired to set aside his musings of the summer and present to us a concrete proposal for which he will come into this House to explain and defend in debate.

On Wednesday and Thursday, I will give priority to the consideration of any new government legislation that may be introduced between now and then.

Time Allocation MotionPrivilegeRoutine Proceedings

September 15th, 2014 / 3:35 p.m.
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Green

Elizabeth May Green Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to rise today on this question of privilege about closure.

I am rising at my first opportunity on this question of privilege, given that between the Speech from the Throne in October and when we adjourned June 20, there had been 21 occasions on which closure of debate occurred, and I maintain that the exercise of my rights and the rights of my colleagues in this place have been obstructed, undermined and impeded by the unprecedented use of time allocations in the second session of the 41st Parliament.

Mr. Speaker, in presenting this fairly legal argument to you, I propose to leave out page numbers and citations because I have prepared a written version of this for your office and I hope that will be acceptable to you, that I skip page numbers in this presentation. Hansard may not have the numbers of the debates, but I hope there is enough context so people can find them.

I belive this excessive use of what is often called “guillotine measures” is a violation of the rights of all members of Parliament, but I would like to stress that there is a disproportionate impact on members such as me who are within either smaller parties, that is less than 12 members, or who sit actually as independents, because in the roster of recognizing people in their speaker slot, quite often those of us in the smaller parties or independents simply never get to speak to the bills at all.

My question, Mr. Speaker, bears directly on what your predecessor said in this place on April 27, 2010. He said, “...the fundamental right of the House of Commons to hold the government to account for its actions is an indisputable privilege and in fact an obligation”.

In the autumn of 2011, in a ruling concerning the member for Mount Royal, Mr. Speaker, you yourself said that to constitute a prima facie case in regard to matters of obstruction, interference, molestation or intimidation, you need to “...assess whether or not the member's ability to fulfill his parliamentary [activities] has been undermined”. At that moment in the same Debates, you had the occasion to reflect on “...the Chair's primordial concern for the preservation of the privileges of all members,...” and you added, “As your Speaker, one of my principal responsibilities is to ensure that the rights and privileges of members are safeguarded, and this is a responsibility I take very seriously”.

I now have occasion to turn to other words that will guide us in this matter. From the Supreme Court of Canada in the Vaid decision, in the words of Mr. Justice Binnie, speaking for the court, he outlined the scope of parliamentary responsibility and parliamentary privilege for the management of employees and said, “Parliamentary privilege is defined by the degree of autonomy necessary to perform Parliament’s constitutional function”. He went on to say at paragraph 41 of that Supreme Court of Canada judgment:

Similarly, Maingot defines privilege in part as “the necessary immunity that the law provides for Members of Parliament, and for Members of the legislatures of each of the ten provinces and two territories, in order for these legislators to do their legislative work”.

I would repeat and emphasize that, because although the Vaid decision was on a different fact set, Mr. Justice Binnie spoke to our core responsibility as parliamentarians when he said that we must be able, as legislators, to do our legislative work.

Mr. Justice Binnie continued in the Vaid decision to say:

To the question “necessary in relation to what?”, therefore, the answer is necessary to protect legislators in the discharge of their legislative and deliberative functions, and the legislative assembly’s work in holding the government to account for the conduct of the country’s business. To the same effect, see R. Marleau and C. Montpetit...where privilege is defined as “the rights and immunities that are deemed necessary for the House of Commons, as an institution, and its Members, as representatives of the electorate, to fulfill their functions”.

Mr. Justice Binnie went on to find further references in support of these principles from Bourinot's Parliamentary Procedure and Practice in the Dominion of Canada.

These are fundamental points. The purpose of us being here as parliamentarians is to hold the government to account. It is obvious that no legislative assembly would be able to discharge its duties with efficiency or to assure its independence and dignity unless it had adequate powers to protect itself, its members, and its officials in the exercise of these functions.

Finally, Mr. Justice Binnie—again, for the court—said at paragraph 62, on the subject of parliamentary functions in ruling that some employees would be covered by privilege, that coverage existed only if a connection were established between the category of employees and the exercise by the House of its functions as a legislative and deliberative body, including its role in holding the government to account.

As I said earlier, this approach was supported by your immediate predecessor. In a December 10, 2009 ruling, the Speaker of the House, the Hon. Peter Milliken, said that one of his principle duties was to safeguard the rights and privileges of members, and of the House, including the fundamental right of the House of Commons to hold the government to account for its actions, which is an indisputable privilege, and in fact an obligation.

It is therefore a fundamental principle of Westminster parliamentary democracy that the most important role of members of Parliament, and in fact a constitutional right and responsibility for us as members, is to hold the government to account.

The events in this House that we witnessed before we adjourned on June 20, 2014, clearly demonstrate that the House and its members have been deprived of fulfilling constitutional rights, our privilege, and our obligation to hold the government to account, because of the imposition of intemperate and unrestrained guillotine measures in reference to a number of bills. Over 21 times, closure has been used.

It is only in the interest of time that I am going to read out the numbers of the bills and not their full description. Bill C-2, Bill C-4, Bill C-6, Bill C-7, Bill C-13, Bill C-18, Bill C-20, Bill C-22, Bill C-23, Bill C-24, Bill C-25, Bill C-27, Bill C-31, Bill C-32, Bill C-33, and Bill C-36 were all instances where closure of debate was used.

In many of the instances I just read out, and in the written argument I have presented, closure of debate occurred at second reading, again at report stage, and again at third reading. The limitation of debate was extreme.

A close examination of the guillotine measures imposed by the government demonstrate that the citizens of Canada have been unable to have their elected representatives adequately debate the various and complex issues central to these bills in order to hold the government to account. Members of Parliament have been deprived and prevented from adequately debating these measures, through 21 separate motions for time allocation in this session alone. It undermines our ability to perform our parliamentary duties.

In particular, I want to again highlight the effect that the guillotine motions have on my ability as a representative of a smaller party, the Green Party. We do not have 12 seats in the House as yet, and as a result we are in the last roster to be recognized once all other parties have spoken numerous times. Quite often, there is not an opportunity for members in my position, nor for independent members of Parliament, to be able to properly represent our constituents.

Again, I should not have to repeat this. Certainly you, Mr. Speaker, are aware that in protecting our rights, as you must as Speaker, that in this place we are all equals, regardless of how large our parties are. As voters in Canada are all equal, so too do I, as a member of Parliament, have an equal right and responsibility to represent the concerns of my constituents in this place, which are equal to any other member in this place.

As speaking time that is allotted to members of small parties and independents is placed late in the debates, we quite often are not able to address these measures in the House. This would be fair if we always reached the point in the debate where independents were recognized, but that does not happen with closure of debates. My constituents are deprived of their right to have their concerns adequately voiced in the House.

Political parties are not even referenced in our constitution, and I regard the excessive power of political parties over processes in this place, in general, to deprive constituents of equal representation in the House of Commons. However, under the circumstances, the additional closure on debate particularly disadvantages those constituents whose members of Parliament are not with one of the larger parties.

Mr. Speaker, in the autumn of 2011, in your ruling considering the member for Mount Royal and his question of privilege, you said that one of your responsibilities that you take very seriously is to ensure that the rights and privileges of members are safeguarded. The principal right of the House and its members, and their privilege, is to hold the government to account. In fact, it is an obligation, according to your immediate predecessor.

In order to hold the government to account, we require the ability and the freedom to speak in the House without being trammelled and without measures that undermine the member's ability to fulfill his or her parliamentary function. As a British joint committee report pointed out, without this protection, members would be handicapped in performing their parliamentary duty, and the authority of Parliament itself in confronting the executive and as a forum for expressing the anxieties of citizens would be correspondingly diminished.

To hold the government to account is the raison d'être of Parliament. It is not only a right and privilege of members and of this House, but a duty of Parliament and its members to hold the government to account for the conduct of the nation's business. Holding the government to account is the essence of why we are here. It is a constitutional function. In the words of the marketers, it is “job one”.

Our constitutional duty requires us to exercise our right and privilege, to study legislation, and to hold the government to account by means of raising a question of privilege. This privilege has been denied to us because of the consistent and immoderate use of the guillotine in regard to 21 instances of time allocation, in this session alone.

This use of time allocation, as you know, Mr. Speaker, is unprecedented in the history of Canada, and infringes on your duty as Speaker to protect our rights and privileges as members. As you have said many times, that is your responsibility and you take it very seriously. However, these closure motions undermine your role and your duty to protect us. Therefore, it diminishes the role of Speaker, as honoured from time immemorial.

In fact, you expressed it, Mr. Speaker, in debates in the autumn of 2011, at page 4396, when you had occasion to reflect on “the Chair's primordial concern for the preservation of the privileges of all members..”, and when you added, “As your Speaker, one of my principal responsibilities is to ensure that the rights and privileges of members are safeguarded, and this is a responsibility I take very seriously”.

Denying the members' rights and privileges to hold the government to account is an unacceptable and unparliamentary diminishment of both the raison d'être of Parliament and of the Speaker's function and role in protecting the privileges of all members of this House.

In conclusion, I submit to you, Mr. Speaker, that the intemperate and unrestrained use of time allocation by this government constitutes a prima facie breach of privilege of all members of this House, especially those who are independents or, such as myself, representatives of one of the parties with fewer than 12 members.

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate your consideration in this matter. I hope you will find in favour of this question of privilege, that this is a prima facie breach of the privileges and rights of all members.

Justice and Human RightsCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

September 15th, 2014 / 3:15 p.m.
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Conservative

Mike Wallace Conservative Burlington, ON

Mr. Speaker, I have the honour to present, in both official languages, the seventh report of the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights in relation to Bill C-36, an act to amend the Criminal Code in response to the Supreme Court of Canada decision in Attorney General of Canada v. Bedford and to make consequential amendments to other Acts. The committee has studied the bill and has decided to report it back to the House with amendments presented by all parties of this House.

July 15th, 2014 / 1:50 p.m.
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Conservative

The Chair Conservative Mike Wallace

Ladies and gentlemen, that is our discussion of Bill C-36 at committee.

I want to thank everyone involved, including the clerks, the researchers, and the officials who are here today. I also want to say a thank you to the members of the committee—and I know Mr. Casey did it the other day. I thought it was a very respectful and honest and forthright discussion—not a lot about politics, but about making what we think is good law for Canada. I appreciate everyone's patience and professionalism on this committee.

Thank you very much.

The meeting is adjourned.

July 15th, 2014 / 1:40 p.m.
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NDP

Françoise Boivin NDP Gatineau, QC

Just to discuss my own amendment, it's in the official title, which the government doesn't use very often because it talks more about Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons Act, which is the short title. So very soon the government will have forgotten that it's an act to amend the Criminal Code in response to the Supreme Court of Canada decision. It's probably the only time that the government recognized that it is following a decision from the Supreme Court.

I don't think there's anything wrong with adding certain aspects of the decision that were key to the decision, because that's why we are here and we are passing such great days all together to review these clauses.

I don't know why the government would be scared to say what exactly the court has said in its decision, especially since they claim that all their clauses fit exactly what the Bedford decision has said. So they should be proud to quote the Bedford decision and to say that the Parliament of Canada recognizes that violence against women in Canada remains a serious issue that needs to be addressed through concerted government action.

Their claim is that Bill C-36 is addressing that so they should, again, be proud. I'm sure my colleague, Ms. Smith, who fought for women being exploited and trafficked and violently, what's the word in English?

The word is “violenter”. That's even more comprehensive than what the preamble states very coldly, and that would somewhat humanize this bill.

July 15th, 2014 / 1:40 p.m.
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Conservative

Bob Dechert Conservative Mississauga—Erindale, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I regret to inform my colleague that we will not be able to support this amendment. We think it's wholly unnecessary. I would simply point out that the title to the bill is actually An Act to amend the Criminal Code in response to the Supreme Court of Canada decision in Attorney General of Canada v. Bedford and to make consequential amendments to other Acts. I think it is very apparent what the act is about, as it is specifically referenced in the title, which is in fact part of the bill and will be cited in any litigation in the future. So for those reasons we would not support this amendment.

July 15th, 2014 / 1:25 p.m.
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Conservative

Bob Dechert Conservative Mississauga—Erindale, ON

You took the words right out of my mouth, and you're obviously very skilled at this.

It is indeed a technical amendment. The government is proposing the amendment to clause 48 of the bill, as you pointed out. It is a coordinating amendment between Bill C-36 and Bill C-32, An Act to enact the Canadian Victims Bill of Rights and to amend certain Acts. Coordinating amendments determine which amendment, as between two pieces of legislation, governs in the event that both are passed into law.

In this case, the coordinating amendment at subclause 48(6) relates to section 486.4 of the Criminal Code, which governs the issuance of publication bans in cases involving sexual offences.

Our proposed amendment is to the English version only and would correct a discrepancy between the English and French versions of subclause 48(6). This is a technical amendment, as I pointed out, to ensure that the English version accords with the French version, as the French version properly coordinates the amendments.

For those reasons, we are proposing and will support this amendment.

July 15th, 2014 / 1:20 p.m.
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NDP

Françoise Boivin NDP Gatineau, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I can't believe the Conservatives would say no to this. This is a prudent measure that has already been used in other bills. Not so long ago, a relevant study was carried out concerning official languages in courts, such as the language used by the accused, and so on. This was a prudent measure. It was applied in Bill C-13 regarding cyberbullying. If the government ordered its members not to try to improve the bill, there should at least be a way to make them accountable. The other elephant in the room—besides the Supreme Court of Canada's Bedford decision, which we don't often hear Conservatives talk about—is provincial involvement.

With the exception of the Government of Manitoba, whose representatives came to testify here, it's certain that, with such a quick process, not all the provinces were necessarily available or prepared to come speak within such a short timeframe on issues as profoundly complex as human trafficking, sexual exploitation and prostitution.

Yet it is clear that, on the ground, it will be up to the provincial authorities to enforce three quarters of, if not all, the provisions that will be passed under Bill C-36.

I do believe strongly that we need to be able to do that review within two years of the adoption. How it's going to be carried out by the provinces, by the territories.... We all know that it is going to be.... What we decide here is always fine and dandy, but what I hear on the ground from crown attorneys, from prosecutors, and from defence attorneys is that they are left with the mess. It's not always easy to apply what comes out of this Parliament.

That being said, I think it would be prudent that we do a review on how all of this went. It will permit the committee in two years' time to maybe contact all the provinces and territories to see how it has been lived in the different courts, how many cases there were, and whether these were more on sex traffic or prostitution, and so on and so forth. I think this is at least the amendment that everybody should support if we are serious about the work we are doing.

July 15th, 2014 / 1:10 p.m.
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Conservative

Bob Dechert Conservative Mississauga—Erindale, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I thank my friend for the amendment. We do not support it, for a number of reasons.

The motion proposes a substantive amendment that would effectively eliminate the need to seek a record suspension through the Criminal Records Act. It would grant an amnesty to individuals who sell their own sexual services, if convicted under subsection 213(1)—that is, I point out, as amended today—of offences both before and after the coming into force of Bill C-36.

There is no time limit on this proposed amnesty; therefore, the provision is not transitional in nature.

Persons convicted under subsection 213(1) may apply for a record suspension under the existing rules under the Criminal Records Act, pursuant to the criteria outlined in that statute; namely, that five years have elapsed since the expiration of the sentence and that the Parole Board—and this is very important—is satisfied that the applicant is of good conduct and that the conviction should no longer reflect adversely on the applicant's character.

In our view, Mr. Chair, this provision would significantly reduce the deterrent effect of the provision itself. It is, in our view, unprecedented in the sense that it retroactively suspends criminal records in all cases, without any due consideration. We point out that there is a process that is built on appropriate principles with respect to the behaviour of convicted persons.

I am informed by my colleague, who is very well versed in these things, that this would also require an amendment to the Summary Convictions Act, which we don't see here. Therefore, it is fundamentally flawed in that regard.

For all those reasons, we will not be supporting this amendment.

July 15th, 2014 / 1:10 p.m.
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NDP

Françoise Boivin NDP Gatineau, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I am pleased that this amendment is in order. It seems to me that we all heard witnesses talk about this aspect of the issue, which involves decriminalizing the work of prostitutes and sex trade workers—to please everyone. That is what people were looking and asking for.

If we are consistent, I think that there should be some openness since the preamble of the Conservatives' bill states that we want to protect these people. That seems obvious to me. In short, I do not think there should be a major problem with this because the government is decriminalizing this aspect and criminalizing another.

As you can see, we did not ask for the criminal records of people who buy such services to be erased or suspended. That proposal seems to be consistent with Bill C-36. I therefore do not see why our Conservative friends could not move in that direction.

July 15th, 2014 / 1 p.m.
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Conservative

Bob Dechert Conservative Mississauga—Erindale, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

As with several of the other amendments proposed earlier by the government, this is a technical amendment to clause 23 of Bill C-36.

Clause 23 proposes to amend the list of offences included in the definition of “primary designated offence” and “secondary designated offence” for the purpose of forensic and DNA analysis. The DNA provisions authorize the taking of a DNA sample in two situations: where persons are convicted of designated offences, and pursuant to a warrant where police have reasonable grounds to believe a designated offence has been committed.

The proposed changes at clause 23 are consequential to the proposed repeal of existing prostitution-related offences, notably section 212 of the Criminal Code and the proposed enactment of the new prostitution offences in clause 20.

Furthermore, clause 23 as currently drafted would include section 212 offences as historical offences for the purposes of the DNA scheme, including paragraph 212(1)(j), living on the avails of prostitution. The need to amend clauses 8, 9, and 10 to address their listing for historical offences purposes identified the need to delete the specific reference to paragraph 212(1)(j) in clause 23.

This would make it clear that a warrant for DNA could not be issued for a historical offence investigation in relation to paragraph 212(1)(j) initiated after Bill C-36 comes into force. The operational impact of this deletion would be minimal. If after Bill C-36 comes into force a warrant is sought to collect DNA to investigate an historical procuring offence alleged to have been committed before Bill C-36 comes into force, police would be able to rely upon other listed procuring offences as set out in paragraphs 212(1)(a) through (h).

For those reasons, we're proposing this amendment and will be supporting it.

July 15th, 2014 / 12:50 p.m.
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Conservative

Bob Dechert Conservative Mississauga—Erindale, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I thank Madam Mourani for the amendment. The government does not support it. In our view, it's inconsistent with the policy of Bill C-36, which is to ensure that individuals who sell their own sexual services can develop legitimate family and business relationships on the same basis as anyone else.

For example, it could mean that a roommate who shares rent and other living expenses, which is a legitimate living arrangement, with a person under the age of 18 who sells their own sexual services would be guilty of an offence. That's what this could mean and that's not what we intend. Such an approach would have a negative impact on the most vulnerable persons who are exploited through prostitution, and in our view may be contrary to the Supreme Court of Canada's findings in Bedford. So on that basis, we will not be supporting this amendment.

July 15th, 2014 / 12:45 p.m.
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Conservative

The Chair Conservative Mike Wallace

Okay.

Ladies and gentlemen, I call this meeting of the justice and human rights committee back to order. We're doing the clause by clause on Bill C-36.

When we suspended for lunch, we were just about to begin with NDP amendment number 5, that Bill C-36, in Clause 20, be amended by replacing line 29 on page 10 to line 2 of page 11 with the following:

(i) for a first offence, a fine of $1,000, and (ii) for each subsequent offence, a fine of $2,000; or

Madame Boivin, the floor is yours on your amendment.

July 15th, 2014 / 11:55 a.m.
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Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section, Department of Justice

Nathalie Levman

That said, it doesn't criminalize the implementation of certain safety measures. It doesn't prevent people who sell from implementing those safety measures that Bedford has outlined. We always have to go back to the main objective of the bill. It posits that prostitution is a form of sexual exploitation. Because so many people who sell are women, it's also considered to be a form of violence against women. In no way does Bill C-36 seek to facilitate the practice of prostitution, be that through the purchase or the sale of sexual services.

July 15th, 2014 / 11:55 a.m.
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Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section, Department of Justice

Nathalie Levman

Well, Bill C-36 posits that the best way to reduce the harms of prostitution is to not engage in it. That's true. That said, Bill C-36 recognizes that its ultimate objective will take time to realize, and during that time it has been informed by the decision of the Supreme Court of Canada in Bedford.

It doesn't prevent implementation of certain safety measures that the Supreme Court of Canada found were extremely important to the safety of those who sell. So those measures have been considered today, I believe, including moving indoors and working indoors independently and cooperatively—

July 15th, 2014 / 11:55 a.m.
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Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section, Department of Justice

Nathalie Levman

As the parliamentary secretary says, the main objective of Bill C-36 is to reduce the prevalence of prostitution with a view to ultimately abolishing it to the greatest extent possible. In no way does Bill C-36 seek to facilitate, allow, or condone prostitution.

It doesn't criminalize the sale, that's true. There's no specific provision that criminalizes the sale. You have been reviewing the provision that criminalizes the purchase. The blanket criminalization of purchasing sexual services is consistent with the main objective of the bill, which is to reduce the prevalence of prostitution.

Back to my first point where Bill C-36 doesn't intend to facilitate prostitution. It's not allowing the sale by failing to criminalize it, it's immunizing the person who sells from prosecution for any part that they may play in any of the prostitution offences.

July 15th, 2014 / 11:50 a.m.
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NDP

Françoise Boivin NDP Gatineau, QC

Well, I think the parliamentary secretary missed my point, that point being that it's all about consent. If you're dealing with and buying somebody who is coerced and exploited, that is the main infraction.

That being said, I'm a bit surprised, because I find it's a complete reversal of the speech we heard from the parliamentary secretary on Bill C-213. The argument on Bill C-213 was that we want to get them off the street, because Bedford was all about the danger surrounding the street practice of prostitution, plus the fact that we don't want kids to see that.

Fine. They can go and do that in a much safer place, which is their own place. But he just said no, you're missing our point on Bill C-36. We want to criminalize any individual in every circumstance who buys.

So what the hell can they sell and to whom? That has been my question from day one. Maybe they would have been better to agree with Ms. Mourani who was plainly asking for them to abolish it, to call a spade a spade and say that the act of buying and the act of selling is wrong. But they're not doing that.

Maybe the officials can answer my question then. What can they sell and to whom, based on Bill C-36? Is there anybody who cannot buy sexual services except criminally, by virtue of Bill C-36?

Also, has your department thought of maybe using the notwithstanding clause based on section 7 of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms to say the whole thing is illegal, that we don't want prostitution?

That's what I heard from the parliamentary secretary, that we want this done and over with, so no selling and no buying at some point in time, because what good is it to sell something that cannot be bought by anybody?

July 15th, 2014 / 11:45 a.m.
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Conservative

Bob Dechert Conservative Mississauga—Erindale, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Once again, I thank Madame Boivin for proposing this amendment.

In my view, the amendment misses the main purpose of Bill C-36, which is to, for the very first time in Canada, criminalize the purchase of sexual services from any individual, to say quite clearly and loudly to all those who are considering doing this, that we don't condone it, that doing so unreasonably puts sex workers themselves at risk. We've seen it over and over, and over again, with the brutal stories we've heard.

In my humble and considered opinion, Mr. Chair, this is not a business just like any other. It's unique; it's different. Far too many people are victimized by it. The demand is what drives it. The demand is what powers it. If the money weren't there to buy the services in the first place, there wouldn't be women trafficked into it. There wouldn't be young men trafficked into it.

As I mentioned earlier, and we heard it from witness after witness, this is a paradigm shift in the way we deal with this. Some may disagree, and I understand that. It may mess up their business plan. There are businesses that we don't allow to happen in Canada.

There are people who can use heroin for years and apparently not suffer significant negative medical impacts from it. But we know that most do, so although there are people who earn a living from selling heroin—and, yes, it still goes on even though it's been illegal for a very long time—we say that's not something that should happen in Canada.

We can't allow more of these kinds of stories to happen. I don't want to sit here 10 years from now and hear about the next generation of Bridget Perrier's story. It's incumbent upon us as elected officials to do something about this.

In my view, this amendment misses the mark. It would make the criminalization of the purchase of sexual services far too narrow to say we're only going to arrest and charge you for communicating for the purposes of purchasing sex while you're intimidating, holding a gun to the head, assaulting, or exploiting somebody.

It makes it ridiculously narrow and, therefore, to no beneficial effect, in my view. If they are holding a gun or a knife to the throat of the sex worker, of course, the police are going to move in and they're going to be charged with serious aggravated sexual assault. That's what's going to happen. This provision is not for that. There are many provisions in the Criminal Code that deal with that. That's not what's at issue today.

What we're saying to all those who would purchase sexual services of another person in Canada, “We don't agree.” It's not a business like any other. We strongly advise you not to do it. If you choose to, the police just might be there to put you in the back of their car, and then you'll deal with the consequences. Then your family will know what you're doing, as well as your co-workers and neighbours.

Only by doing that will we ever get at the nub of this issue, will we ever be able to look Bridget, Timea, and Katarina, and all those other women in the face and say, “We did something. We heard you and we're not going to let this happen to the next generation of young Canadians”.

As I said, it's inconsistent with the main objective of the bill, which is to reduce demand. I don't think it would effectively address the demand for prostitution. I also don't believe that any witness asked us to do this. They were on one side or the other. They said, “Criminalize the purchase, tell people, especially the men, that women's bodies are not for sale in Canada. It's not right and we don't condone it”.

Or “Laisser les bons temps rouler.” Every community in Canada will be a red-light district. We've got lots of willing purchasers just across the border in the wealthiest country in the world who are willing to come on in and take advantage of those services. For those who are able to do it in an equal, power-sharing way, having made a personal choice to provide their services, my goodness, there will be a lot of money out there for them. They're going to do very well. That's a great business model, you know.

If it were not for the fact that people get killed in this business every day, it might be something people might want to look at investing in. But, unfortunately, it's not just like any other business.

I don't suggest people invest in the drug trafficking trade, although that is also a very profitable trade that some people choose to do and people on the other side choose to inject heroin into their veins.

In the same regard, we're saying that's not something that we believe should happen in Canada. We don't think it's good for Canadian society and for all those reasons we'll not be supporting this amendment.

July 15th, 2014 / 11:35 a.m.
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NDP

Françoise Boivin NDP Gatineau, QC

I want to use clause 18, first of all, to thank our Bibliothèque du Parlement for all of their work. Especially when we're talking about mandatory minimum sentences, I'm always curious to see the jurisprudence on the issue and what type of sentences have already been awarded and so on.

Thank you to Dominique and his colleague for their great work in a fast-paced fashion, in giving me that information, to show me that there is a wide variety and range on trafficking. It could go anywhere from between two years to seven or eight years, and so on.

I think that everybody around this table strongly detests

—anything that has to do with human trafficking. Mrs. Smith can speak to that. If I am not mistaken, when she introduced her bill a few years ago, the House passed it unanimously. I say that without prejudice but, in any case, it received our full support. There is nothing more disgusting than one individual who exploits another. Every provision in the Criminal Code that addresses this type of situation and this scourge is important and deserves our support. The sentences need to be solid.

I am always distraught when I see that sentences vary between two and eight years. There needs to be more consistency at times. I am not a fan of mandatory minimum sentences because they do not allow the courts to be analytical. They also take away the courts' ability to use discretion. I am not talking about being able to do whatever they want; I am talking about applying the facts of the case to the person who committed the crime and so on.

However, there are crimes that are not that easy to forgive. It is not surprising that offences involving kidnapping or human trafficking are subject to stiffer sentences. People need to know that. In this case, we have been talking primarily about prostitution, but there are aspects of these amendments that touch on human trafficking and sentencing. That leads me to another comment.

When I spoke about slowing the process down, I was not talking about slowing it down for no reason in particular. There are many parts to Bill C-36. I have the impression that it has been reduced to stating what prostitution is exactly. That's it, that's all. There has not been much focus on the concept of human trafficking in Bill C-36. There is also the issue of the DNA that will be collected. There are many other aspects that we will not have time to cover during our analysis because of the time we have and the number of witnesses we have heard from. That is, perhaps, my only regret.

All of that said, I would like to thank you. You are doing a wonderful job helping us with this so that we can better understand the legal aspects. The work of the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights is quite legal in nature.

July 15th, 2014 / 11:30 a.m.
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NDP

Françoise Boivin NDP Gatineau, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I am having a hard time understanding the parliamentary secretary.

We may have some information, but it would be even more clear and precise if we knew the impact that the government thinks Bill C-36 will have on protecting communities and those who are being exploited.

I would like to point out to the parliamentary secretary that the preamble, which will in no way be included in the Criminal Code, will serve only as a guideline. It provides an explanation and gives an overview. It will surely serve as a guide for the courts when they have to rule on the practical aspects in criminal proceedings. It will be useful in that way.

In fact, it is part of our powers. Committees, and the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights in particular, have fairly far-reaching powers. We are the legislative committee that acts as a shield of sorts for the Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada. He has very clear obligations with respect to the Constitution and protecting the rights set out in the Charter.

It is legitimate to ask that the Minister of Justice produce this report, which seemingly exists, according to some of what my colleague was saying. I think it would be important to compile all of this in a report so as to provide some clarity about what the government aims to do, namely the short-term abolition of prostitution, pure and simple. I hope that is the case, for him at least.

It is surprising to see that someone is opposing virtue in the context of Bill C-36.

July 15th, 2014 / 11:25 a.m.
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NDP

Françoise Boivin NDP Gatineau, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I think that'll be very important because, as they say:

The writing is on the wall.

It's quite clear where Bill C-36 is headed. Nevertheless, we'll keep working to try to get the Conservatives to listen to reason. This is a very important issue, so it's important to have this type of report—a summary of the impact of this legislation on the health and safety of prostitutes.

This follows up on the essence of the Supreme Court of Canada's decision in Bedford, which is the health and safety of prostitutes.

Since the government did not think it was a good idea to declare all forms of prostitution illegal—whether it's the purchase or sale of sexual services—it's leaving the door open and it often uses the argument that they can do this in this place or that place. We need to read between the lines that prostitution is partially allowed. We'll have to see what the impact will be.

It'll be interesting to see statistics on prostitution in Canada. When I say prostitution, I don't mean human trafficking. I mean prostitution in Canada. This will certainly bring about increased awareness of the agencies that are working together—the provinces and territories, as well as police forces. With clear statistics, we'll be able to see where we're going.

There are no doubts about financing. Although the $20 million in funding is not part of this bill, it's still a way to include the notion of what funding the federal government will provide for programs to encourage prostitutes to give up prostitution and to promote their health and safety.

That would be a good way for us to include this aspect, which was mentioned several times by witnesses we heard from last week, regardless of whether they came from or what their position on this issue was.

As for transparency, it'll be very important to find out what the $20 million over five years will be spent on, who will benefit from this funding and what impact it will have on prostitution. The minister has the ambitious objective of putting an end to prostitution in Canada. That'll give us a good idea about whether that can be achieved before 2020, 2050 or 3000.

The minister could send a copy of the report to every member, so we could see and so we could do what's necessary. I think that's prudent and it doesn't hurt anyone. It would show that the government is following up on this issue, especially since we have heard so much about the victims of prostitution in Canada. It's important to have this kind of information.

July 15th, 2014 / 11:05 a.m.
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Conservative

Bob Dechert Conservative Mississauga—Erindale, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I am very pleased to be able to move the amendment G-4 to clause 15 of Bill C-36.

Mr. Chair, in my considered view what we heard from the majority of the witnesses last week is that Bill C-36 is a paradigm shift in how Canada views and deals with prostitution.

We heard horrendous stories that should never have happened in our country. I think of Bridget Perrier, Timea Nagy, and Katarina MacLeod, and all the others who came forward and told us the awful, terrible stories of what happened to them, what went on for years and years. Timea Nagy told us how she desperately hoped that somebody would rescue her.

There are victims and I am convinced that many of the women and young men who are engaged in this practice are victims. I believe it could be a majority. We certainly heard significant stories. But even if it's a minority and not the majority, we can't sit idly by, Mr. Chair, and not do something.

The Supreme Court put it to us, as members of Parliament, that we have the right to do something. It's for Parliament to devise a new approach, that's what we're here today to do. By criminalizing for the first time in Canadian history the purchase of sexual services, the commodification of the bodies of the unfortunate people who are trapped in this trade, we're finally addressing this ugly situation that has gone on in Canada for far too long.

I have no doubt that there are those who freely choose to do this. I have no doubt that there are some who have all the necessary power in the relationship with their client to do it in a safe way. In my view, those individuals will now have an opportunity to do it in a safe way, and that's directly in response to Bedford.

But if one Bridget Perrier is out there today, we have to do something. All we're talking about in clause 15 is a tiny piece of real estate in this vast country of ours, I believe the second largest country in terms of geography in the world, and one of the least densely populated countries in the world. We're saying to those individuals who choose to go out on the street because for some reason they don't wish to go inside where they could do it safely, in these narrow circumstances, let our children have their space.

We heard from many technical experts who said there was some vagueness, there was some opportunity for misinterpretation of the provision as it's currently drafted. What we did was listen to those experts, Mr. Chair. Although we heard from the Assistant Deputy Minister of Justice, a person I have great respect for, who is a criminal law specialist who said that the distinction around where persons who are under the age of 18 may reasonably be expected to be present is a relatively narrow distinction and one that it well understood in law, we have taken steps today to clarify, in response to those who said that there was some vagueness, some ambiguity.

What we're saying today is that there are some places in Canada that are sacrosanct, and I do not wish to make any woman who is trapped in this ugly trade, a victim. We're saying to them—and we're giving them good notice—stay out of the playgrounds, stay out of the schoolyards, and stay away from the front of the daycare centres. If you go there we're going to ask the law enforcement officials of this country to remove you. That's a simple request. I don't think it's hard to understand.

My friends over on the other side say that the only people we heard from who need this power are the police. Well, guess what? They are 50% of the equation here. When we have done our job here, when this bill becomes law, we are all going to go home, and then we're going to ask the law enforcement officials of Canada to enforce this law. They need tools to do their job. We heard from them; they are not interested in targeting the victims here. They want to help the victims, and sometimes the victims need to be removed from a dangerous situation.

I'm sorry I had to learn about this, that I had to know that when women are being forced to do this by an abusive, violent pimp, he's not standing right next to her on the street, because that would scare off the customer. He's around the corner. He's in the vicinity, and he's watching. If she willingly speaks to the police officer, she's going to be beaten up later, because that drives customers away, and that's not good for business.

In those circumstances, the police need every tool we can give them to separate that person and take them in. Sometimes it will be obvious to the police officer that the person has been injured, obvious to them that they are under the influence of drugs or alcohol, that they are not making good choices. If they just go up to them and say “I want to help you; work with me”, the pimp is going to beat them up. That pimp is going to do terrible violence to them and continue to force them into this trade. But the tools we're giving them in clause 15, in the new section 213, will allow police officers to take them out of that situation, take them to a safe place, and introduce them to people who can help them.

Talk about fairies dancing on the head of a pin. My goodness gracious—only in school grounds, playgrounds, day care centres.... And my friends on the other side don't even want to go there: they are happy that the prostitutes stroll through the playground at 3 p.m. looking for customers.

I have news for them. I don't think the customers are going to be there. The whole concept that customers are going to be driven away into the dark shadows.... In my view, Mr. Chair, the customers are always in the shadows, because they don't want their family, their friends, their co-workers, or their neighbours to see what they are doing. Nothing that we do here today is going to make it okay, from the perspective of the purchaser of sex, to be out on Wellington Street this afternoon, or on Yonge Street in Toronto, or on Robson Street in Vancouver. They are not going to go there. They are already in the shadows.

What we need to say to the sex workers is to do it in a safe way: get off the street; make a choice. If you have free choice—and we hear that they have free choice, but everyone tells us that being out on the street is the most dangerous thing you can possibly do—please choose to do it in a safe way. We're giving you that power. The police are not going to harass you for being in your own apartment, for advertising your own services, but this provision is about giving the innocent children of Canada a place to be children, where they don't have to see sex transactions being negotiated a few feet from the swing set.

We're trying to make it tighter, and we're trying to respond to those who said there's a concern about how the courts would interpret this provision. In my view, the amendment that is before us here will do that; it will make it easier for the courts to interpret, and therefore give the police the tools they need to rescue victims who need to be rescued.

For those reasons we'll be supporting the amendment.

July 15th, 2014 / 10:30 a.m.
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NDP

Françoise Boivin NDP Gatineau, QC

I definitely hear Ms. Smith and Mr. Wilks. We are not, I repeat, on the trafficking or recruiting section.

It says in proposed subsection 213(1.1) of clause 15 that:

(1.1) Everyone is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction who communicates with any person—for the purpose of offering or providing sexual services for consideration—in a public place, or in any place open to public view, that is or is next to a place where persons under the age of 18 can reasonably be expected to be present.

This is the clause that touches on the prostitute, the sex workers, solely. It's not the recruiting. It's who we've heard about from every side of the equation as being victims.

If I hear Mr. Wilks correctly, they're victims up to a certain point. If they cross the line and do it in a public place, that they define as a school, a church, and so on

a day care centre, schoolyard or playground nearby,

in their amendment G-4, then they're not victims any more.

That's basically what we have to understand. All the rest is covered in other sections, either through Bill C-36, against the pimps, the johns, or through the trafficking sections that are in the Criminal Code, either with some amendments in Bill C-36 or the actual case.

So as for all of the explanations that I heard from Ms. Smith, of course course nobody wants to see a kid being prostituted in a school, but this is not what it is about. It's about whether or not we want to victimize the person in one of these aspects. That's the question we have to ask ourselves as committee members. What I'm hearing from the government is clear. Finally it is clear: prostitutes are not victims any more when they do it at that point in time.

While Ms. Smith says that policemen do not usually arrest prostitutes, that might be true in certain parts of Canada.... Not necessarily, because when there is the actual section.... We heard some of your witnesses come to the committee on the last day and say that they wanted section 213 to stay for the sole reason that it would help

investigation. They could catch the person. If they can't arrest them, it could be hard to know who is behind them, who was the john, who was the pimp, and so on.

Some police officers would like to have that provision at their disposal, since it could be useful for them. Except that almost all the witnesses told us no. They told us that these are victims.

At least the message is clear. I can't fault you since your message is clear. These people are victims, to a certain point, as long as it doesn't interfere with protecting communities and it isn't conducted in certain well-defined areas.

What a ridiculous concept. I think we've heard everything on this subject.

July 15th, 2014 / 10:20 a.m.
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Conservative

Joy Smith Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Quite clearly, Bill C-36 is the first bill we've ever had in Canadian Parliament that is compassionate towards the victims of prostitution and human trafficking, and for the first time, money is there to help them exit.

In Canada, or in any other country, children are the perpetrators’ prime targets. Why? Because they get a higher price. All the components around this bill support and are really well aware of the victimization of the prostitutes and trafficked people. That's the whole essence of this bill. That, and the targeting of the johns and pimps, criminalizing the johns and pimps for buying sex.

It's a great step forward, one that I think this committee can be extremely proud of. I commend Madam Boivin for talking about victimization because that's precisely what Bill C-36 is aimed at preventing. It will also prevent pimps and the johns having the opportunity to help prostitutes solicit in front of schools. In actual fact, in many cases that I've personally worked on, children have been solicited in school, on school grounds. There have even been narcs put in the school itself to look for the vulnerable people so that the traffickers could traffic them. I had an incredible case, out of Edmonton, of a young girl trafficked to Toronto just from that. She was a victim. But she was forced into prostitution from the school itself.

It is a very wise, balanced move for this bill to say, very specifically, that schoolyards and places where children are, are just off limits. Nobody can do that. It's not harming the prostitutes at all. In fact, very few police forces today arrest prostitutes because they recognize them as victims. They ask them to move along.

As MP Dechert, the parliamentary secretary, said, children have a right to their innocence and they have a right not to be targeted by the johns. Johns don't care. They don't ask how old a person is. And they do target the younger ones, the younger-looking ones.

I think that this is a well-balanced way. The argument that it's victimizing the prostitutes is absolutely absurd. For the first time, this whole bill, and the essence of this whole bill, recognizes the tragedy these victims go through.

In closing, I think we have to be very mindful that we don't want anything like this around our schools. It's just not something that we want to happen. Having the provision where we single-out places specifically where children are is a very wise and balanced move for the Canadian public.

This is a very well written, well-balanced bill, in both these regards.

July 15th, 2014 / 10:20 a.m.
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NDP

Ève Péclet NDP La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC

I think it's an awful example that the parliamentary secretary used, talking about young girls being prostituted in the school bathrooms, because under those provisions they would be criminalized. I think the example is an awful one because it actually proves to the committee that criminalizing those victims won't pass the test.

I think it's an awful example. All we're saying is that criminalizing the women won't help the government achieve its goals. That's it. I think we heard unanimously from the witnesses that criminalizing women would not only put them in more danger but would also affect the relationships. We heard that from former police officers, that the relationships between the victims and the police officers are key for targeting prostitutes and human trafficking.

Any form of criminalization will just harm the government's goal, whatever goal they want to have. It would harm the victims and it would harm the women. That's all we're saying. The awful example of kids being prostituted in schools, well, under those provisions in Bill C-36, they would be criminalized. All I'm saying is that with whatever goal the government has, criminalizing victims won't help them, and they know it. We've heard it for four days in a row.

July 15th, 2014 / 10:15 a.m.
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Conservative

Bob Dechert Conservative Mississauga—Erindale, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

With respect to my colleague, I just want to remind her that Bill C-36 addresses the exact concerns of the three litigants who started that litigation seven years ago.

When they were out on the street, they were in danger. But the laws that were struck down prevented them from carrying on their business in a safe indoor location, where they could have security and properly screen their clients. Bill C-36 allows them to do that.

We know that all forms of prostitution are inherently dangerous. We've heard it over and over again from some of the very brave survivors of the sex trade, who told horrendous stories about the torture, the rape, the abuse, the beatings, and the assaults they endured for many, many years.

Some of them were recruited in the schoolyard and ended up in that trade. They were trapped in that trade and were treated as slaves long after they ceased to be children, once they were adults. Many of them were enticed into it later in life.

We know that being out on the street is the most dangerous thing one could possibly do in this trade. We are simply saying to them that there are certain places in Canada where these sorts of things are not welcome, inappropriate, and off limits. They are: schools, playgrounds, day care centres, places where young people are every day. We're simply saying, “Do not look for your clients in the schoolyard.”

I think that's a reasonable limit, under section 1 of the charter, Mr. Chair. I am very comfortable in stating to you that in my considered opinion, the Supreme Court would agree with that.

We have given them exactly.... Ms. Bedford, Ms. Lebovitch, and Ms. Scott asked to be able to carry on their business, not outside in any location, not in the schoolyard, but indoors. They can advertise. They can hire security and they can be safe. That is what they should do.

For all those reasons, we will not be supporting this amendment.

July 15th, 2014 / 10:10 a.m.
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NDP

Ève Péclet NDP La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

It's important to note that children need to be protected, and I understand that. However, what we're talking about here is the criminalization of victims, regardless of the situation.

I want to point out that the government was clear in its approach with Bill C-36 and in the questions it asked to witnesses: the majority of women who are involved in prostitution are victims. We're talking about the interests of victims here. Furthermore, since we are talking about criminalization, I think that children should be protected. Do we need to criminalize people to ensure a balance between interests?

Furthermore, witnesses unanimously agreed that the government shouldn't criminalize women or victims when it's balancing interests, since we also need to protect these women.

July 15th, 2014 / 10:10 a.m.
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Conservative

Bob Dechert Conservative Mississauga—Erindale, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I simply want to thank Madame Boivin for the amendment. The government will not support the amendment. In our view it's inconsistent with one of the main objectives of the bill, which is to protect children from prostitution's harms.

We believe that, as drafted, Bill C-36 balances competing interests, including the interest of protecting sex workers from unreasonable harm. We think it addressed those in appropriate and reasonable ways in full compliance with the opinion of the Supreme Court of Canada.

We also believe that vulnerable people, minors in our communities in general, also have a right to be protected. Children, Mr. Chair, have a right not to be exposed to prostitution. They have a right not to be put in a situation where they could be recruited into prostitution.

We heard very unfortunate stories from survivors of the sex industry, who talked about being recruited into the business in high school. We were told that, unfortunately in this country on a relatively regular basis, young girls are recruited in high school hallways into the business.

We need to send a clear message to the pimps and the johns, and everyone else involved in the sex trade that the schoolyard, the playground, the day care centre, and other places where children are, are off limits.

We believe children, at the end of the day, Mr. Chair, have a right to their innocence, and it's our obligation as a society to protect that right as well. We believe we're balancing those interests, and for those reasons we will not be supporting this amendment.

July 15th, 2014 / 10:05 a.m.
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NDP

Françoise Boivin NDP Gatineau, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm not surprised about my NDP-1 amendment. That may have been pushing a bit too far.

However, I'd like the NDP-2 amendment to be clear for everyone, since it has to do with clause 15. This is the clause that witnesses probably talked about the most last week with clause 20 and the $20 million amount. That's essentially what they talked about last week.

We especially heard about the premise of the preamble of Bill C-36. That's part of the bill, and we'll see it later on. The witnesses—regardless of where they stood on the issue of prostitution—told us that sex workers are victims.

I repeat. This means that someone cannot be both a victim and a criminal for the same action. We need to be consistent. When it came to specific questions from most of the witnesses who support the government and Bill C-36, unequivocally— with the exception of a few reservations for moral reasons, which I respect—this appeared to be an aspect in support of the bill.

I think that we need to be consistent, at least with this bill, and we need to ensure that we don't revictimize the people involved in prostitution. That's the very essence of the NDP-2 amendment. It's a matter of making it consistent, at the request of almost everyone. It even seemed to have the support of Conservative members of this committee.

July 15th, 2014 / 10 a.m.
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Conservative

Bob Dechert Conservative Mississauga—Erindale, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The government does not support the amendment.

We thank Mrs. Mourani for bringing it forward. In our view, it's unnecessary to define prostitution because the Criminal Code would no longer use that term if amended by Bill C-36. Rather, Bill C-36 focuses on the relevant aspect of the prostitution transaction, such as obtaining sexual services for consideration.

Moreover, the amendment could cause some confusion, as it proposes that prostitution be defined in part VII, which refers to “Disorderly Houses, Gaming and Betting”, and Bill C-36 would place most of the new prostitution offences in part VIII, which are “Offences Against the Person and Reputation”.

For those reasons, we'll be opposing the amendment.

July 15th, 2014 / 10 a.m.
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Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section, Department of Justice

Nathalie Levman

Prostitution has been interpreted by the Supreme Court in its 1990 prostitution reference. I would just note that Bill C-36 doesn't propose to use the term “prostitution” other than in its preamble.

July 15th, 2014 / 9:50 a.m.
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Conservative

The Chair Conservative Mike Wallace

Is there anything further to the amendment?

(Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

(Clause 10 as amended agreed to)

Clause 11 has no amendments.

Are there any comments on clause 11?

(Clause 11 agreed to on division)

(On clause 12)

We do have an amendment.

It's the first amendment from our independent member. This committee has operated such that I will read the amendment and then I'll rule on whether it's admissible or not, and why. If it is admissible, the mover, because you are an independent, will have approximately one minute to talk about your amendment, and then we will proceed to vote. Obviously, you are unable to vote on it.

The motion reads that Bill C-36, in Clause 12, be amended by adding after line 17 on page 7 the following:

(3) Subsection 197(1) of the Act is amended by adding the following in alphabetical order: “prostitution” means an act by which a person provides or obtains sexual services for consideration;

I'm assuming you're moving that, Madame Mourani. I'll give you a minute or so to speak to your amendment.

It is in order as Bill C-36 does not have a definition of “prostitution” and this wording is not the same as the previous wording, which dealt only with the sale. This definition deals with selling and buying, so it is in order.

Madame Mourani.

July 15th, 2014 / 9:45 a.m.
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Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section, Department of Justice

Nathalie Levman

The intention was to ensure that somebody who commits a preparatory sexual offence against a child, after Bill C-36 is enacted, would be caught. Therefore, we put the historical offences...listed them in, but subsequently, in terms of the intense review that we always do again and again, and consultations with crown, who actually of course apply these offences, we came to the conclusion that it wasn't necessary.

July 15th, 2014 / 9:30 a.m.
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Conservative

Bob Dechert Conservative Mississauga—Erindale, ON

Just briefly, I thank Madam Boivin for the motion. She knows there's been much discussion of the potential for a direct reference to the Supreme Court of Canada.

Along with the government, the Minister of Justice and others, I am very confident that Bill C-36 as drafted is in full compliance with the Bedford decision and the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. This is our response to the Bedford decision. It was carefully considered and carefully crafted by the minister and by Department of Justice specialists.

We heard from those Department of Justice specialists last week. They made it clear that in their considered opinion as experts in the field of criminal law, the bill is in compliance with the Bedford decision and the Charter of Rights and Freedoms in all its aspects.

As a lawyer, myself, I say personally to you that I am very comfortable that it is compliant. I also take the words of the chief justice seriously. She said that Parliament has a legitimate right and obligation to propose a new way of dealing with the issue of prostitution.

It was thrown back directly to Parliament to do that. My personal view is that to do otherwise would be an abdication of our responsibility as elected members of Parliament. On that basis, we'll be opposing the motion.

July 15th, 2014 / 9:30 a.m.
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NDP

Françoise Boivin NDP Gatineau, QC

I'll be very brief, because I don't have much hope. But you always have to have hope.

I'd like to move a motion, in one last attempt with the Conservative benches.

Based on what we've heard and based on the theories we've been hearing left and right—I'm not talking in the political sense, but in terms of the very diverse positions we've heard—I'd like to move a motion calling on the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights to recommend that the government send Bill C-36 to the Supreme Court of Canada before proceeding with the clause-by-clause study.

The reason, as everyone knows, is that the Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada is required to ensure that his bill complies with the charter and our Constitution. Constitutional experts have told us that the bill doesn't comply and others have told us that it does. Simple and good legal logic would have us present a bill of sound order, especially when this bill is in response to a Supreme Court decision.

As a lawyer, I'm not comfortable sending this bill back to the House at report stage and guaranteeing to our colleagues in the House that it complies with the charter and the Constitution.

I think we should avoid spending a lot of money. As experts and the minister himself have said, this bill will end up before the court as surely as night follows day. With that in mind, I think the prudent and diligent thing to do would be to send the bill to the court. That's what the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights should request at this time.

July 15th, 2014 / 9:30 a.m.
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Conservative

The Chair Conservative Mike Wallace

I'm going to call to order meeting number 44 of the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights.

The orders of today are, as per the order of reference of Monday, June 16, 2014, Bill C-36, An Act to amend the Criminal Code in response to the Supreme Court of Canada decision in Attorney General of Canada v. Bedford and to make consequential amendments to other Acts.

We are being covered by, I believe, CBC and Sun TV. All cameras are fixed. The one behind us is the camera that will be used. It will be fixed only on those who are speaking and is not to be used to pan the room.

We are joined by witnesses from the Department of Justice, in case there are any questions about the clauses or amendments that may be brought forward.

Madame Boivin, you have your hand up before we start the clause-by-clause consideration.

July 10th, 2014 / 5:20 p.m.
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Founding Director, Ratanak International

Brian McConaghy

To address the first question, basically the power and ability to choose to leave, I think, is in doubt on a lot of occasions. When women are under the control of pimps or addictions, we have seen them consent to horrendous circumstances of bodily harm. To assume that they all of a sudden have the clarity and judgment to get out under those circumstances is fairly naive.

This leads right into the problem. Forgive me if I sound somewhat schizophrenic here, but this is where the clauses within 213 provide the ability for police to remove a girl or a young woman who is abused and give her enough time to think clearly. I totally accept that and in so many ways that's necessary.

There are so many issues that fall out from using the Criminal Code to do that in terms of the victim being criminalized, but a lot of times I don't think there is much ability to consent to leave. There is not the mental preparation to be able to walk out of this.

With minors, that's easy. With minors, we can simply go in and rescue them. We've dealt with situations where minors can be removed very readily because there's the understanding that consent is not an issue. But as soon as a young woman crosses that line and becomes 18, then there's an expectation that she can make her own decisions, and it becomes very problematic because she trusts nobody and wants to participate on many occasions with no one.

So it is really problematic and I don't know how to attack that. In this whole Bill C-36 legislation, this issue is so problematic. How do we help the individuals and give them the tools to make free decisions to get out without imposing legal restrictions or criminalizing them in a way that is counter-productive. I don't have an answer for that. Perhaps that's for the committee and Parliament to hammer out, but it's very difficult.

In terms of parents and what tools parents have, I honestly don't have expertise and can't speak to that, but obviously, there needs to be much greater education. We've heard from some witnesses on committee already who have spoken—

July 10th, 2014 / 5:20 p.m.
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Conservative

The Chair Conservative Mike Wallace

Okay.

Thank you very much for those questions and answers.

Our last questioner for this panel and for this review of Bill C-36 is Ms. Ambler from the Conservative Party.

July 10th, 2014 / 5:05 p.m.
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Conservative

Joy Smith Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB

Thank you. I want to thank all the members of this committee for coming today and all our guests today for your input.

Mr. McConaghy, it's nice to see you. You've done so much good work with Ratanak and the Willie Pickton file. It's a great honour to have you here.

When you listen today.... I have a question and I'll try to frame it. The Bedford case gave us a year to respond. We don't send it back to the Supreme Court of Canada. The Supreme Court of Canada said Parliament must come back with a decision before December 19, with a response. Bill C-36 came about and when we're asking.... We heard so many voices of survivors, so many. The survivors came in and bravely sat in these chairs and talked about what happened to them behind closed doors. They told us that Bill C-36 was very important. Why? Because the buying of sex was going to be put in place and they had something that could bring them out in the open to be able to defend themselves because now the perpetrators were targeted.

It was a compassionate bill. For the first time in Canadian history, Canada produced a compassionate bill that looked at what was happening to the victims of human trafficking and of prostitution, which are really one and the same, because often.... We heard at this committee that there are no people under 18 who are trafficked or prostituted. In fact, when we listened to the survivors, all of them started underage and things progressed.

When we look at this whole thing, there is an urgency for Canada and an urgency for all parliamentarians to understand what's going on and to get busy and do the job instead of dragging their feet and letting it fall under the bus. We've talked about this law and that law, and the other thing. Human trafficking laws and mandatory minimums came in June 2010. It is now July 2014. That's four years ago. Following that was another law on human trafficking in 2012, and there was one in 2005. So the laws on human trafficking are new. So what do we have? We have a police force that has done a remarkable job on human trafficking. If you google human trafficking, it comes up all the time. Canada, I think, has done a remarkable job at finding out what's going on. Our government has done that; found out what has gone on behind closed doors. Now the voices of the survivors are out there.

Brian, you've had a lot of experience in this. You know what you're talking about and I want to talk to you about police training. What we've heard here in the committee is that the police sometimes think the victims should be arrested and sometimes think the victims shouldn't be arrested. They're all well-meaning because they all want to take care of the victims. But I've also heard from some of the victims. Some of the victims have said, “Well, you know when they arrest me they bargain with me. Turn over the goods and then I'll get you out of harm's way.” If they don't, they don't take them out of harm's way. That's the reality of what I've heard from the victims.

My son is a police officer. I love the police. I'll do anything for the police but I find that disturbing.

The other thing is that police are saying, “You know, if we don't have some laws, somewhere along the way, we have no tools.” I find that disturbing.

Could you talk a little bit about police training and could you talk a little bit about the realities on the street? Because we have to get this show on the road.

July 10th, 2014 / 5:05 p.m.
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President, Canadian Police Association

Tom Stamatakis

Well, it would be the provisions around 213 where the communication gives us an opportunity to intervene; the provisions around someone engaging in sex trade activities in front of a school, in a park, where it's causing other issues; the provisions around preventing youth from being drawn into the sex trade. Those are the kinds of tools that Bill C-36 provides that I think the police can use to protect vulnerable people in our community.

July 10th, 2014 / 5:05 p.m.
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President, Canadian Police Association

Tom Stamatakis

Right, but when we're talking about the most marginalized or vulnerable women, we were using those provisions before to intervene, to intercede, and to try to make a difference. The issue is what do we do now, since Bedford. I think that Bill C-36 provides us now with some of those tools that we can continue to employ.

July 10th, 2014 / 5 p.m.
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President, Canadian Police Association

Tom Stamatakis

At the very basic level, from my perspective, what Bill C-36 provides to police is the ability to respond where there's a community concern, where we identify a concern in a particular part of our community that we're serving, or where we see women being exploited. It provides us with the tools to be able to intervene to find out what situation the woman might be in and whether there's anything we can do to help and whether there are services that we can refer the woman to.

July 10th, 2014 / 5 p.m.
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NDP

Ève Péclet NDP La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC

My second question would be for both Mr. Stamatakis and Mr. McConaghy.

I would just like to know, because my colleague started you on the tools that you need to do your job in the field.... I was just wondering if you could talk to me about what Bill C-36 will bring for you in the field and what it would have given you, because I know Mr. McConaghy represents an organization other than the police.

What will it give you? What tool do you need to do your job that you didn't have before? If I read the Criminal Code, prostitution and trafficking and exploitation are all addressed already.

Mr. Stamatakis, and then Mr. McConaghy....

July 10th, 2014 / 4:30 p.m.
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Conservative

David Wilks Conservative Kootenay—Columbia, BC

I guess the reason I ask you that question is that some have said that Bill C-36 will exacerbate and create the next Pickton. Can you tell me what you think about that, and also how it makes you feel as one who, obviously, worked on the Pickton file. I'm also retired from the RCMP and I'm quite familiar with that file.

July 10th, 2014 / 4:25 p.m.
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Conservative

David Wilks Conservative Kootenay—Columbia, BC

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thanks to the witnesses for being here.

Mr. McConaghy, some have depicted Bill C-36 as the Pickton bill. I wonder what you think about that.

July 10th, 2014 / 4:25 p.m.
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NDP

Françoise Boivin NDP Gatineau, QC

But could it be argued that new section 286.1 would be seen as only regarding trafficking?

It would be buying sexual services in the context of human trafficking, rape, kidnapping, and so on, since it is exactly at the end of the actual section 286, and not necessarily in the same type of aspect as section 213, which seems like a lesser charge because it's a summary conviction.

Or is it like we heard from Conservatives that as soon as Bill C-36 is adopted, there's no buying? Even though we permit people to sell, there's no buying. I find it hard to see the logic in it.

Mr. Kirkup.

July 10th, 2014 / 4:20 p.m.
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Trudeau Scholar, Faculty of Law, University of Toronto, As an Individual

Kyle Kirkup

Great.

The first thing I would say is that the reason the preamble has been coming up so much in the discussions is because the government knows that the section 7 analysis is very much about proportionality. So what we're supposed to be doing is looking at the purpose of the legislation and then weighing it against what the legislation is going to do when it goes out into the world.

In Bedford, one of the problems identified by the court was that you had this purpose that was kind of weak, a public nuisance purpose, going up against very real harm and death to sex workers. I would argue that the constitutional problem we now see is that even though there's a stronger preamble in place, we're now into the terrain of what section 7 calls arbitrariness. The purpose of the legislation is to protect vulnerable members of Canadian society, but when you think about what Bill C-36 will do when it goes out into the world as legislation, it will actually be counterintuitive to its stated goal of protecting vulnerable women from exploitation.

To answer the first question about why the preamble keeps coming up—and while Minister Peter MacKay has not released the legal opinion, I would encourage him to do so; I think that would be an important contribution to this debate—it's because for section 7 in particular, when you're weighing that purpose against the effect, it's a really important provision. I take your point, and the point that you've made throughout the week, that the legislation ultimately won't hold the preamble. I think that's also why you're seeing the new legislation shifting old provisions into offences against the person. It's again part of this story of trying to recast this legislation as something new, something new for the first time.

In my respectful submission, I would say that it largely feels like window dressing. You move different provisions to different sections of the Criminal Code. You amp up the preamble—

July 10th, 2014 / 4:15 p.m.
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NDP

Françoise Boivin NDP Gatineau, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank our last group of witnesses for joining us today.

Bear with me, please, because I have a couple of lawyers, and next Tuesday we're going to start the clause-by-clause.

We are dealing with a piece of legislation, so we have to address Bill C-36 section by section. There will be votes on each and every one of those clauses, so we need to be sure—in my case, anyway, that's how I do my job and I'm sure all my colleagues are the same—that the clauses we vote on are sound, do what they're supposed to do, and are constitutional and charter compliant. So you can see the challenge we have.

So having the benefit of two lawyers.... After four days of testimony and hearing lots of stories that are heartbreaking, when I go back to the legislation I will do a job for the next five minutes that might be very boring on TV, but for me, very important.

To this day I'm still wondering about a couple of things. We heard that the preamble is important. As a lawyer, I know a preamble can give a bit of

the purpose of a bill, and provide certain explanations for the courts that will have to deal with interpretation issues. Titles and sections must also be considered, and especially the Criminal Code.

I am very familiar with the way criminal lawyers work, and I know that any argument that can be debated will be tested before the court. This much is known. Even the minister is aware that his bill will be tested.

So here is my question about that. I am looking at the new section 213, in response to the Bedford case. That provision is still where it was before, more specifically in the part on disorderly houses, gaming and betting. Unless I am mistaken, it is still in part VII, under section 213. The heading was changed, and clause 14 states the following:

offences in relation to offering, providing or obtaining sexual services for consideration

This is the most problematic provision. We have almost unanimously been told that we should decriminalize prostitutes activities' because they are victims and they cannot be both victims and criminals simultaneously.

Section 213 also states the following:

Everyone is guilty of an offence [...] for the purpose of offering, providing or obtaining sexual services for consideration.

Further on, the new section 286 follows the provision on offences against individuals and reputations. This provision covers kidnapping, human trafficking, hostage taking and abduction. This is the meatiest part on criminal offences relating to the purchase of sexual services, while section 213 already covers the issue, as I mentioned, but in a more summary fashion.

On the one hand, why was this offence in section 213 maintained? How do you interpret this? Is that provision in conflict with section 286? On the other hand, should the new part introduced by the minister, which contains section 286, be interpreted so as to limit the notion of buying in a context of abductions or human trafficking given the heading of the section it is under?

I am wondering if this is clear for you, as it is not clear for me. There is room for debate, and someone could say that they do not interpret the legislation as we do, and that they feel that no offence is involved in purchasing a sexual service when there is consent.

That's one of my big dilemmas right now on how to interpret the bill.

So to start, I'm addressing it to Mr. Kirkup.

July 10th, 2014 / 4:10 p.m.
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Tom Stamatakis President, Canadian Police Association

Thank you.

Good afternoon, honourable members. I appreciate having the opportunity to appear before your committee today on behalf of the Canadian Police Association as part of your study of Bill C-36.

For those of you who may not be familiar with our organization, the CPA represents more than 54,000 front-line civilian and sworn law enforcement personnel serving across Canada in more than 160 police services.

I'd like to begin my brief opening remarks by saying that the Canadian Police Association is supportive of Bill C-36, though we certainly understand that this legislation, like prostitution in general, is a controversial topic. Our association appreciates that Minister MacKay and Minister Blaney, as well as the Departments of Justice and Public Safety Canada, actively consulted with front-line law enforcement during the drafting process for the legislation.

As I mentioned, while we appreciate and understand that the issue before you here is a complex and controversial one, I believe there are some areas in which all sides can come to an understanding, particularly with the need for us to focus on protecting the most vulnerable and exploited members of our communities. It is here that we believe Bill C-36 takes some very positive steps.

Provisions within this proposed legislation, which clarify the definition of a weapon within the Criminal Code to include restraints, including handcuffs or rope used in the commission of certain offences, will certainly help to provide additional and necessary tools to our officers. Further, the increased penalties attached to child prostitution, child trafficking, and related offences will hopefully send a very clear signal that there will be absolutely zero tolerance given to anyone who preys on or exploits those who are most in need of our protection.

When discussing the issue of prostitution, the fundamental point I'd like to stress is the absolute need for both law enforcement and sex trade practitioners to end the adversarial nature of any interactions between their two groups. There is some misconception that, pre-Bedford, law enforcement made it a priority to harass and arrest sex trade workers on a regular basis as part of a targeted attack on what many might call the world's oldest profession. I can say, both from my experience with my home police service—the Vancouver Police Department—and from my conversations with officers involved in these investigations across Canada that this is just not the case. When sweeps are conducted to target street prostitution, the instigation is usually complaints from the surrounding community that need to be responded to by our police services.

Officers involved in prostitution task forces receive specific training and have access to community support programs to help sex trade workers who might themselves be the victims of exploitive relationships or suffer from some form of drug dependency. Further, police services across the country have initiated john school programs to help divert those who are purchasing sex and to increase their awareness of the victims who may be created by their actions.

Regardless of whether Bill C-36 is passed, I would suggest that we need to continue to monitor and enhance these programs wherever possible to ensure that education is a key component for both the buyers and sellers of sex, and that resources will need to be committed to further these efforts.

When it comes to prostitution, as with many other offences, Canadian police personnel exercise a tremendous amount of discretion in the pursuit of their duties. This will continue even if Bill C-36 becomes law. Many of those involved in the sex trade come from among the most vulnerable and marginalized members of our society, where violence and addiction are the common themes that law enforcement encounters. Any legislated response to prostitution in this country needs to take those factors into account, as the harm that is caused not only impacts the buyers and sellers of sexual services but also the surrounding communities.

To conclude, I want to reiterate that the Canadian Police Association endorses the approach taken with Bill C-36. This legislation will provide front-line law enforcement personnel the additional tools they need to help target the predators who seek to take advantage of the vulnerable. Our members appreciate the enhanced penalties for offenders who target children and those who try to draw minors into this industry through child trafficking.

The recent Bedford decision has had a significant impact on policing in this country because of the uncertainty that has followed it regarding the constitutionality of Canada's laws surrounding prostitution. We appreciate that this government has taken steps to address that uncertainty and that law enforcement took part in the consultations that took place to draft the legislation that you are considering today.

I wanted to keep my opening remarks brief to allow as much time as possible for questions and I look forward to participating in the continued discussion here this afternoon.

Thank you again very much for inviting our association to participate.

July 10th, 2014 / 4 p.m.
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Brian McConaghy Founding Director, Ratanak International

Thank you.

Mr. Chair, ladies and gentlemen, thank you for the opportunity to speak to Bill C-36.

My name is Brian McConaghy, and I come to the issue of prostitution with 22 years of experience in the RCMP and 24 years of directing Ratanak International, a charity that assists Cambodian youth to recover from the abuses of the sex trade.

While in the RCMP, I was assigned files that involved both domestic and international prostitution. So grave were the abuses visited upon both women and children in these files that I was compelled to leave the RCMP in order to serve such victims full time. It is now my challenge and my privilege to do so. I continue to assist Canadian law enforcement in international investigations associated with prostituted children and youth.

Bill C-36 seeks to address some very complex issues, and I would like to commend the government for its efforts to identify those prostituted as victims rather than criminals. I would also support criminalizing those who purchase and benefit from the sale of Canadian women.

I need to begin by stating that I judge human trafficking and prostitution as inseparable and simply different elements of the same criminal activity, which exploits vulnerable women and youth. The separation of these elements I view to be largely academic.

I should also indicate that while there are clear distinctions in law regarding the treatment of minors and adults in prostitution, I view this as a seamless continuum of abuse that runs from the prostituted child, who by virtue of age is deemed incompetent to consent, and progresses into the abused adult, who by virtue of conditioning, addiction, and trauma is frequently rendered equally incapable of informed and considered consent. Thus the issues of minors, while not directly associated with the Bedford ruling, are clearly material to these deliberations.

I would like to address several contextual issues to which Bill C-36 applies.

First is harm reduction and legalization. Those “harm reduction” principles frequently verbalized by those seeking to legalize the prostitution industry are, I believe, misguided. I have not seen any convincing evidence to indicate that women in prostitution will be safer if regulated. If anything, legalizing the sex trade will, if we consider Germany and the Netherlands, increase the size and scope of the trade, leading to more human trafficking, more involvement of organized crime, more prostitution, and de facto more violence.

It is in my opinion foolish to presume that the introduction of regulations to an industry such as prostitution will lead to compliance and cooperation. This is particularly true given the number of minors manipulated into the trade and the number of women struggling with addiction, mental illness, and financial vulnerabilities who are not necessarily in control of their own lives. If prostitution is legalized, I would anticipate that many of these women will fall through the regulatory cracks.

I do not believe that legalization and regulation would have protected the women Willie Pickton picked up who ended up dismembered in my RCMP freezers for forensic analysis. What we learn from the Pickton file and the analysis of their body parts indicates that Pickton was only the last in a long line of predators who had over the years subjected these women to traumatic abuse and injury.

Let us be under no illusion as to the brutality of this industry. Defenceless Canadian citizens are being routinely subjected to great harm in prostitution, and their vulnerabilities are being exploited to the full. I have watched too many evidence videos involving profound violence, degradation, and abuse. I have listened to women and children as they have pleaded for the torture—I use the term advisedly—to stop. I would not wish such videos on any of you.

In this context, the issue of consent looms large. Tragically, some of the victims consent to such bodily harm and physical injury at the hands of johns simply because they are so desperate for their next drug fix. Let us not presume that what passes as consent is actually full, informed consent free of duress.

It is this peripheral violence that the practices of harm reduction would seek to address. However, harm reduction in the context of legalized prostitution would do nothing to address the violence inherent in the central sexual activity of prostitution. It is my belief that such central activity, which is the career of prostitution, does in fact represent violence against women. Harm reduction practices will not protect women from violence if the job, itself, represents violence.

The purchasing of women's consent by males and subjecting them to thousands of paid rapes does violence to their bodies and is profoundly destructive to the psyche. Young women exiting out of enforced prostitution frequently feel suicidal, and they do attempt suicide.

It is interesting to me that I have never encountered a young woman in a transitional program who has attempted suicide because of her memories of beatings, being held at gunpoint, or being stabbed. Invariably, the source of their distress is a profound sense of worthlessness resulting from the repeated sexual assaults that are central to the job, along with constant dehumanizing verbal abuse that undermines their self-esteem and shakes their identity to the core—this is the central violence of prostitution.

If, then, violence is central to the life of prostitution, the only clear way to reduce violence is to reduce the size of the trade. Experimentation in other nations teaches us that legalization will not reduce the harm but rather, by growing the trade, will increase it. In addition, I believe we are naive if we assume the creation of a legalized Canadian industry of sex abuse would go unnoticed by the very large source of demand south of the border. Simple economics will dictate that the demand will be filled with increasingly vulnerable “product”, which will be found within Canadian society. Providing such a market is potentially catastrophic.

On the issue of choice, it is my belief that the law needs to target those who clearly have choice in regard to such harm. Those vulnerable women, both minors and adults, the majority of whom have experienced abuse as children, who are frequently drug-addicted, manipulated, and extremely vulnerable, do not have that choice. However, those with money, careers, and a reputation to maintain; those who kiss their kids goodnight, say goodbye to their wives, get in the car, drive downtown, and choose to abuse a vulnerable woman or girl—these are the ones our laws clearly need to be directed towards. Bill C-36 does this, for the first time, targeting johns and those who would pimp. This represents a major step forward.

As one who has spent far too much time picking through the dismembered body parts of prostituted women, analyzing the nature and circumstances of their brutal deaths; as one who knows first-hand how many years it takes to rehabilitate systematically abused youth; and as one who has devoted his life to the recovery of such victims, allow me to assure you this is not an industry of choice for the vast majority of those prostituted. It is neither lucrative nor empowering for them. It is fundamentally coercive and manipulative. It is abusive, violent, and destructive on every level, and it is deadly. Prostitution and its end game of psychological damage, physical injury, and even death should never be celebrated or legalized, only condemned.

One of the key indicators of a mature democracy is its ability to look past the superficial and move to create legislation that protects the most vulnerable and abused, irrespective of their circumstances or standing in society. In creating this legislation, Canada has moved to protect victimized women, who are frequently not recognized as victims by virtue of their circumstance and appearance. This, in conjunction with a concerted effort to prosecute those who would victimize them and capitalize on their misfortunes, is both honourable and appropriate.

I have two recommendations.

First, I am supportive of Bill C-36, but I'm cautious about provisions outlined in section 213 regarding communication. While I understand the principle of seeking to protect minors in locations where they are apt to be found, I am concerned that under this provision those who are clearly identified as victims elsewhere in the legislation become criminalized for activity over which they may not have control. This provision appears at variance with the rest of the bill and needs careful scrutiny.

Second, the success of the Nordic model appears to be contingent upon the clear commitment to appropriate exit strategies and an equal commitment to their associated budgets. I urge the government to remain focused on this vital element.

To finish, I wish to reiterate my support for the bill and offer my thanks to Minister MacKay and member of Parliament Joy Smith, who have worked so hard to bring justice and dignity to those who need it most.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

July 10th, 2014 / 3:55 p.m.
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Co-Director, Research and Advocacy, Canadian HIV/AIDS Legal Network

Sandra Ka Hon Chu

Okay, thanks.

A 2010 analysis of data from 21 Asian countries revealed that in places where laws exist to prevent discrimination against sex workers, sex workers have greater knowledge and use of HIV-related services and lower rates of HIV. Researchers concluded that not only do legally punitive working environments threaten the rights and health of sex workers, but may further exacerbate HIV epidemics.

A UN review of sex work in New Zealand and the Australian state of New South Wales concluded that decriminalizing sex work has empowered sex workers to demand safer sex and to refuse particular clients and practices, increase their access to HIV services and sexual health services, and is associated with very high condom use rates and very low rates of sexually transmitted infections. HIV transmission within the context of sex work is understood to be extremely low or non-existent. Prior to decriminalization, sex workers were less willing to disclose their work to health care providers or to carry condoms for fear of it being used as evidence for conviction.

In decriminalized environments, the sex industry can be subject to the same general laws regarding workplace health and safety and anti-discrimination protections as other industries. As borne out by the evidence, decriminalizing sex work is necessary to ensure that sex workers can work free from health and safety risks and is critical to advancing public health objectives.

Reinforcing the imperative to decriminalize sex work is the fact that sex workers are entitled to protection under all recognized human rights standards. As a number of human rights bodies have affirmed, the criminalization of voluntary, consensual sexual relations among adults in incompatible with the respect for human rights, which Canada has a legal obligation to uphold, and which must guide the interpretation analysis of the charter.

Among these rights are the rights to work and enjoy safe and healthy working conditions to the highest attainable standard of physical and mental health; the right to liberty, life, and security of the person; the right to freedom of expression; and the right to equal protection of the law, without any discrimination.

In line with international human rights law, global health and human rights bodies have increasingly called for the decriminalization of sex work. These preeminent bodies include UNAIDS and the United Nations High Commissioner on Human Rights, the World Health Organization, the special rapporteur on the right to health, and the Global Commission on HIV and the Law, which after a massive systemic study concluded that since its enactment, the Swedish law criminalizing the purchase of sex has worsened rather than improved the lives of sex workers.

The UNAIDS advisory group on sex work noted that there is no evidence that “end demand” initiatives reduce sex work, improve the quality of life of sex workers, or tackle gender inequalities.

Whatever one's position on the morality or desirability of sex work, there seems to be a consensus among the witnesses that there is a pressing need to protect sex workers' health and safety. However, a concern for the health and welfare of sex workers is profoundly inconsistent with the criminalization of sex work. Laws must be grounded in evidence and human rights. The overwhelming evidence concerning sex work demonstrates that the criminalization of sex work—both directly through prohibitions on the purchase of sex and communicating, and indirectly through prohibitions on advertising sexual services, receipt of financial and material benefits from sex work, and procuring—exposes sex workers to stigma, discrimination, and criminalization.

It diminishes the control sex workers have over their working conditions, including their negotiating power to insist on condom use. It threatens their health and safety; limits their access to essential HIV, sexual health, and harm reduction services; and leaves them without the protective benefit of labour or health standards.

These are harms that the Supreme Court of Canada found to be unconstitutional in Canada v. Bedford, and these harms also constitute a violation of sex workers' human rights.

As a number of witnesses have already contended, Bill C-36 merely cloaks the provisions that were invalidated in Bedford in a different language, with no meaningful provisions to deal with the diverse needs of sex workers, many of whom have no desire to exit the industry.

Human rights law dictates that governments must protect the rights of all sex workers, not just those who are victimized or those who choose to exit. Human rights principles also require policy-makers to value the voices of those who are directly affected by Bill C-36 and not criminalize the context in which they live and work.

Because Bill C-36 will significantly increase the risk of harm that many sex workers would face, we adopt the submissions of other witnesses who have argued that Bill C-36 would violate sex workers' constitutional rights—violations that cannot be safe under section 1 of the charter, irrespective of the broader objectives of the law.

Decriminalizing sex work is the only proven route to protecting sex workers' labour and human rights, and Parliament has a responsibility to ensure that one set of unconstitutional laws is not replaced with another.

There is no legal obligation on the government to create new criminal laws. As the Supreme Court of Canada noted in Bedford, “It will be for Parliament, should it choose to do so, to devise a new approach”. Sex work continues to be regulated under parts of sections 212 and 213 of the Criminal Code. As numerous other witnesses have explained, various other provisions of the Criminal Code can be deployed to protect sex workers from exploitation and other forms of abuse.

For all these reasons, we urge this committee to reject Bill C-36 in its entirety and to meaningfully consult with current sex workers to develop a legal framework that protects, respects, and fulfills their human and constitutional rights.

Thank you.

July 10th, 2014 / 3:50 p.m.
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Sandra Ka Hon Chu Co-Director, Research and Advocacy, Canadian HIV/AIDS Legal Network

Thank you.

My name is Sandra Ka Hon Chu, and I'm the co-director of research and advocacy at the Canadian HIV/AIDS Legal Network.

We're a human rights organization that works to promote the rights of people living with and affected by HIV and AIDS in Canada and internationally. The legal network intervened before the Ontario Court of Appeal and the Supreme Court of Canada, in Bedford, and has studied and worked on issues concerning sex work and human rights for over a decade.

I'd like to thank the justice committee for providing my organization with this opportunity to make a submission, which will focus on the impact of criminal law on sex workers' health and human rights, and draw the committee's attention to the growing global consensus that criminalizing sex work, including the purchase of sex, is poor public health practice, as well as a great violation of sex workers' human rights.

In the legal network's written submission, I described in greater detail the health impacts of specific provisions of Bill C-36, which I won't go into now. We also produced a legal brief on Bill C-36, called “Reckless Endangerment”, which was circulated to all members of Parliament, outlining how the law could be applied to sex workers and others. In particular, our analysis of the bill suggests that sex workers would be captured by the criminal law even if the prohibition on communicating is removed.

Based on research in Sweden, Norway, and municipalities in Canada, which already operate on a policy of pursuing clients rather than sex workers, it can be expected that the various provisions of Bill C-36 would do the following. It would undermine a sex worker's ability to screen and identify clients and negotiate the terms of a transaction, including with respect to safer sex; displace sex workers to isolated spaces to avoid police detection where they have little ability to insist on condom use; and displace sex workers from health and social services, particularly in cases of court or police-imposed red zone orders. These often prevent sex workers from certain neighbourhoods where many crucial health and social services exist like food banks, shelters, and health clinics.

It would also erode sex workers' bargaining power, and place pressure on them to see more clients and to provide their services without being able to demand safer sex; prevent venue managers and others from promoting sexual health because condoms may continue to be seized as evidence of illegal activity; and impede sex workers' ability to work indoors and with others, which significantly enhances their ability to control their working conditions, including the ability to negotiate safer sex.

If sex workers are incarcerated as a result of this bill, which could realistically occur, this could disrupt their access to medical treatment and place them at greater risk of contracting HIV and other infections. This would have a particularly severe impact on sex workers who are indigenous and racialized and who already comprise a disproportionate number of people in the prison population in Canada.

Conversely, research conducted internationally has demonstrated that the decriminalization of sex work supports safer working conditions and enhances sex workers' health and safety. I'd like to draw your attention to just a few of the many studies that exist on this issue.

A UN global review of research on sex workers and their clients found that laws that directly or indirectly criminalize sex workers, their clients, and third parties can undermine the effectiveness of HIV and sexual health programs, and limit the ability of sex workers and their clients to seek and benefit from these programs.

A 2010 analysis of data from 21 Asian countries revealed that—

July 10th, 2014 / 3:40 p.m.
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Kyle Kirkup Trudeau Scholar, Faculty of Law, University of Toronto, As an Individual

Good afternoon. My name is Kyle Kirkup. I am a lawyer and a Trudeau Foundation scholar at the University of Toronto faculty of law. My research examines the role that Canadian criminal law has played, and continues to play, in regulating gender and sexuality. As part of the research, I have conducted qualitative interviews with sex workers and sex work community organizations in Canada.

I want to make three related points about Bill C-36.

First, I want to underscore the considerable harms that will be created by its sweeping list of provisions that directly or indirectly criminalize adult sex work.

Second, I want to situate this legislation in its larger context. The underlying logic behind Bill C-36 is not new. Canada, like so many countries around the world, has a long and misguided history of criminalizing sexual activities on the basis of morality.

Third, I want to explain why we should resist the claim that creating more criminal offences, more sentences, and putting more people in prisons will ever be an effective way to respond to the complex substantive equality issues that are raised by adult sex work. Instead, I want to encourage the government to listen carefully to what current sex workers—women, men, and transgendered people—are actually saying about what they need to work safely and with dignity. It is not another ill-conceived criminal law.

Let me start by briefly talking about the considerable harms that will flow from Bill C-36. The legislation draws heavily upon the so-called Nordic model of criminalizing the clients of sexual services, but it goes much further, particularly with its advertising and communication provisions. We might call this made-in-Canada approach the Nordic model's bigger, deadlier cousin.

Fifteen years after passing the act, Sweden is nowhere near ending the demand for sex work. Claims that we have heard this week suggesting that the Swedish model has been some sort of a panacea are simply not supported by sound, methodologically rigorous evidence. With Bill C-36 we now see Canada going down a similar, albeit even more misguided path than Sweden. The legislation may have a new title, a new preamble, and a new goal of targeting the purchasers and not the sellers of sexual services, but make no mistake about it, Canada's new legislation will replicate the same harms that led the Supreme Court of Canada to strike down the former laws in Bedford.

As Chief Justice McLachlin noted in the unanimous opinion:

The question under s. 7 is whether anyone’s life, liberty or security of the person has been denied by a law that is inherently bad; a grossly disproportionate, overbroad, or arbitrary effect on one person is sufficient to establish a breach of s. 7.

With clients anxiously trying to avoid police detection, street-based sex workers will continue to have little time to take precautionary measures such as writing down a licence plate number before moving to risky, more isolated locations. Unable to communicate in locations where persons under 18 can reasonably be expected to be present—virtually everywhere in my respectful submission—sex workers will face the constant risk of arrest by the police. With significant limitations placed on third-party advertising, sex workers will find it difficult to work in safer indoor locations.

In light of the legislation's disproportionate impact on vulnerable members of Canadian society, its potential arbitrariness, its overbreadth, its gross disproportionality, and its curtailment of freedom of expression, there are serious questions about whether this bill will withstand the inevitable constitutional challenge. While we wait for Bill C-36 to be struck down in whole or in part, we leave current sex workers in deeply precarious conditions. How long do we have to wait for them to tell us what they already know; that the criminal laws aren't going to make them safer?

Instead of again going down the path of creating constitutionally suspect criminal laws, I urge the government to consider regulatory models such as those developed in New Zealand. Since 2003, New Zealand has set up a system that prioritizes human rights and labour protections while also giving municipalities, and working with municipalities to create, health and safety and zoning regulations. If Parliament is serious about providing sex workers with meaningful options, including exiting the sex industry, the New Zealand model is much more effective in connecting them with service providers.

Second, I want to situate Bill C-36 in Canada's long history of using the criminal law to regulate morality. I want to do so by drawing some parallels between the shared struggles of gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgendered communities and sex workers. Like the over 80 countries around the world that continue to criminalize LGBT lives, Canada has a long history of using the criminal law to regulate sexual practices that take place between consenting adults.

In recent Canadian jurisprudence, however, we are now seeing courts moving away from using the expressive power of the criminal law to condemn these practices. Perhaps most notably, in its 2005 decision in Labaye, the Supreme Court of Canada held that consensual sex between adults in a swingers' club did not constitute criminal indecency within the meaning of subsection 210(1) of the Criminal Code. As Chief Justice McLachlin remarked in that decision:

But over time, courts increasingly came to recognize that morals and taste were subjective, arbitrary and unworkable in the criminal context, and that a diverse society could function only with a generous measure of tolerance for minority mores and practices.

In From Disgust to Humanity: Sexual Orientation and Constitutional Law, University of Chicago law professor Martha Nussbaum makes a similar claim. Writing about the regulation of gays and lesbians in the United States, Nussbaum argues that the politics of disgust has been and remains at the root of opposition to the recognition of civil rights. In the place of disgust, Nussbaum calls for us to recognize the humanity in all members of society, including those who engage in non-normative sexual practices. Our histories are qualitatively different, of course, but there are shared struggles with the disgust that has too often been directed at LGBT people and sex workers.

The Canadian government's attempt until 1969 to use the criminal law to abolish homosexuality, and its attempt today to abolish adult sex work, is rooted in a similar, underlying logic. If we threaten people with enough criminal punishment, the argument goes, we'll eventually get them to just say no, whether it be to gay sex or to adult sex work.

When we hear the Minister of Justice make reference to “the perpetrators, the perverts, [and] the pimps”, he is indeed proposing criminal laws that rely upon disgust instead of sound, evidence-based public policy. Rather than focusing our attention on flawed approaches that prioritize criminalization, we should be reframing the discussion to one about human rights, to labour protections, and to safety.

As many people in this room can attest, Canadians are deeply skilled at regulation. Indeed, we regulate everything.

Third, let me end with a few words about the danger of attempting to use the blunt force of the criminal law as a public policy tool. As I observed in an editorial on June 4 in The Globe and Mail, when it comes to criminal justice policy perhaps the government's slogan should be “Got a complex social issue? There’s a prison for that.” With Bill C-36, Canada is set to continue down the harmful, ineffective, and constitutionally suspect path of pursuing “tough on crime” legislation, all the while purporting to secure substantive equality for women.

As we have this important public policy conversation we must not lose sight of the many criminal provisions that we have on the books to respond to the important concerns about exploitation and violence that we've heard this week. These offences include human trafficking, kidnapping, forcible confinement, uttering threats, extortion, assault, sexual assault, aggravated assault, aggravated sexual assault, and a series of gang-related offences.

In the face of these wide-ranging, existing criminal laws, it seems misguided in the extreme to attempt to protect vulnerable members of Canadian society by enacting legislation that makes adult sex work more dangerous. As a society, we should be concerned about any labour practices, and there are many of them where people are not afforded basic human rights and have not been able to make meaningful choices about the work that they do because of gender, because of race, because of disability, because of sexual orientation, because of socio-economic status. But the sound, evidence-based public policy response is not to rush to create new offences to respond to the deep complexities of adult sex work.

Rather, let me urge the government to listen carefully to what current sex workers are actually saying about what they need to work safely and with dignity. It is not another ill-conceived criminal law, and it is not Bill C-36.

Merci beaucoup.

July 10th, 2014 / 3:30 p.m.
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Gwendoline Allison Foy Allison Law Group, As an Individual

Thank you very much for the opportunity to appear before you today.

I'm a lawyer and a partner with the Foy Allison Law Group in West Vancouver, B.C. I have 19 years of experience in the field of employment law and human rights law. I have advised a number of women's groups since the outset of my career, and their allies and callers. Two of my clients have spoken here today. I've also acted for both employees and employers, both in the provincial setting and in the federal setting, so with federal undertakings. My most recent work has centred on the implications for employment-related laws should Parliament decide to decriminalize the purchase of and profiteering from sex, or should Parliament decide to do nothing. So hopefully my presentation today will be a bit of the answer of what will happen, or what could happen, should Parliament decide to do nothing.

My particular focus is a consideration of those laws in relation to the Supreme Court of Canada's concerns for the safety and security of those engaged in prostitution, and the recognition that the primary source of the danger to those in prostitution are those who buy the sex and those who profit from the sale of sex. I recognize that employment-related laws are mainly within the provincial sphere of regulation, and out of the control of Parliament. You can't do anything about that, for the most part, but you need to know what it will look like if you decide to do nothing.

In my presentation today I will recognize the gendered nature of prostitution, in that it is mainly women who engage in prostitution and mainly men who buy sex. The Supreme Court also recognized that gendered nature by using the pronoun “she” when writing about prostitution. I will also say at the outset that I reject the contention that prostitution is work, but do intend to focus on that in my presentation today. I agree with my clients that prostitution is a form of violence and the practice of sex inequality and subordination.

In the Bedford case I was co-counsel to the Asian Women Coalition Ending Prostitution and I appeared on their behalf in court. One of the challenges we had in constructing a submission—because we gained intervener status at the Supreme Court level—was that the court should pay attention to how racialized women, and particularly Asian women, are affected by prostitution. Our biggest challenge was the fact that among the many volumes of evidence that was before the court, there was a sum total of one line regarding Asian women in prostitution, and that one line was contained in the affidavit of a police officer, not an Asian woman but a police officer, who deposed that women in bawdy houses were often illegal immigrants and residential brothels contained mainly Asian women.

I know some of you here are lawyers, so imagine how difficult it is to construct a legal argument on a charter foundation when you have no evidence, and that was our challenge before the court.

In the case, Asian Women's position was that the impugned laws were unconstitutional as they apply to those in prostitution, but were constitutional as they applied to those who buy sex and who profit from prostitution, those men who are the primary source of danger to women in prostitution and who's rights of safety and security were not engaged and not an issue in the case.

Now I have three points to make that arise from Bill C-36, two of which I think have been dealt with already, so I would hope to only mention them in passing, and then I'll focus on my main point.

Overall, I agree that Bill C-36 has many positive aspects, and I agree with those groups and individuals who have given their qualified support to it. I applaud in particular the commitment that I heard Minister MacKay make, when he introduced the bill, to a long-term discussion with provincial, local, and aboriginal governments. This will need a multi-level government approach to address the human rights devastation caused by prostitution.

My first point adds my voice to the opinion that the continued criminalization of women in prostitution, as set out in proposed subsections 213(1) and (1.1), is, in my opinion, inconsistent with the stated purposes of Bill C-36, and in particular the purposes of encouraging those in prostitution to report incidents of violence and to leave prostitution.

As an employment lawyer, my consideration is a practical one. Continued criminalization is counterproductive to successful exiting and a long career in other work. Those exiting prostitution already face barriers to entering the workforce, not least of which would be explaining how they have earned income during their years in prostitution. A criminal record is a further and in some cases an absolutely prohibitive barrier to achieving employment.

Those who exit prostitution have many great insights that would make them valuable employees, particularly in social services and in other forms of public service, and in many positions criminal records checks are required. As a B.C. lawyer, I don't have experience and I'm not qualified to opine on matters outside that area, but I do say, by way of example, that in B.C. we have the Criminal Records Review Act, which requires criminal records checks for anyone who works with children or who has unsupervised access to children or vulnerable adults.

Likewise, volunteering is a very valuable and successful method of gaining skills to enter the workforce, which often, again, requires a criminal records check. I've had many visits to my local police station for my volunteering activities. I know they come up quite frequently.

Continued criminalization of those engaged in prostitution will punish them for the inequalities they've suffered, which led them into prostitution in the first place, and keep them there by impeding the chance of a successful exit.

My second point is to support the provisions as they relate to advertising. Given the time involved and given what I want to say about the employment laws, I will rely on what my client, Asian Women, said this morning about advertising and say no more on that front.

My third point relates to the effectiveness of provincial employment-related laws. You've heard from witnesses that Parliament should decriminalize the buyers and profiteers and protect women through labour and employment laws, and human rights laws. In that regard, those provincial laws would be tasked with protecting those in prostitution from the catastrophic harms that they suffer, primarily at the hands of the men who buy them and who profit from them. The ultimate question you have to ask yourself is: are these laws as they are—because you can't change them—up to the task? Can they do so? Can they protect these women? In my opinion they're not up to the task, particularly when you review the laws in comparison with the horrific nature of the violence that you've heard about over the past couple of days, the women you heard yesterday and today and the violence they've suffered.

There are three legal regimes I want to touch on. First is the common law, then human rights legislation, and then the occupational health and safety rules.

First, I say the employment laws are inadequate. They're primarily engaged with compensating people for harms done to them, such as the failure to give reasonable notice of the termination of employment. Second, employment-related laws are focused on the protection of employees, and that is a status that is not obviously conferred on those in prostitution. In the case of those who work on the street and those who work alone from their homes as independent operators, there's no employer. The underlying protections of employment law would not be available to such girls, youth, and women. There is no one against whom to seek protection.

The reality is that most women who work indoors in a decriminalized or legal environment are treated as independent contractors, self-employed businesswomen. That is the case in the bunny ranches of Nevada, the mega brothels of Germany, and the red light districts of the Netherlands where the women rent their rooms from brothel owners. At the Pascha in Cologne, the women rent the rooms for 175 euros for 24 hours. The services are then negotiated directly between the women and the buyers and the going rate is around 50 euros per half hour.

In the interests of time I won't go into what you've heard about the New Zealand model. In my work, which includes writing papers and presenting to the employment law conference of the Continuing Legal Education Society of B.C. on this bill, I did conduct a review of the New Zealand prostitution laws and their effectiveness. In doing so, I communicated with some academics in New Zealand to get a better understanding of how the laws operate there. I'm not going to go into them in my presentation, but I'd be happy to answer any questions with respect to how the employment laws are regulated in that country.

I will say one thing, though. It appears that obviously the Parliament in New Zealand has a broader range of scope of what they can do than Parliament here, because they've obviously considered health and safety, education, and occupational health and safety, and also some local government licensing, which is also outside your jurisdiction.

There's a second element to employment law and that's the corresponding duties between an employer and an employee. An employer has an obligation to provide a safe working environment and not to force an employee to carry out unlawful acts. Employees gain the benefit of protections under employment insurance and on occasion medical benefits and pensions. However, employees also owe duties to employers and I am engaged by employers to enforce these duties: to be loyal and faithful; to act in good faith and not to the detriment of the employer; to obey the reasonable and lawful directions of the employer; to act with all due skill, care, and competence; and not to neglect their duties. Some of those duties do not translate well into the realm of prostitution where the primary obligation of the employee in this consideration would be to provide sex to a third party directed by the employer.

There's an apparent conflict there between an employee's duties to her employer and the provisions in the Criminal Code regarding consent to sexual activity, and in particular the idea that consent cannot be given by a third party.

The Criminal Code provisions raise a question regarding the legality of employment contracts with a fundamental and core duty of the employees to provide sex to the employer's clients. When the question was asked about what a bad day would look like in.... My worst job was in a photo processing plant, which meant spending the afternoon in a dark room with a whole bunch of paper. A bad day for a woman in a brothel would be providing sex to a man who doesn't care, and that she doesn't want to have sex with. I think that's a fundamentally different analysis when you're looking at it as an employment contract.

July 10th, 2014 / 3:30 p.m.
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Conservative

The Chair Conservative Mike Wallace

Ladies and gentlemen, we're calling this meeting to order.

This is the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights, meeting 43, as of the order of reference on Monday, June 16, 2014, Bill C-36, an act to amend the Criminal Code in response to the Supreme Court of Canada decision in Attorney General of Canada v. Bedford and to make consequential amendments to other acts. As per the orders of the day, we are being televised.

This is our last meeting as a committee on this matter before we go to the clause-by-clause meetings next week.

For witnesses dealing with this issue, we have two individuals here with us: Ms. Allison from Foy Allison Law Group; and Mr. Kirkup, from the faculty of law at the University of Toronto, and I can say a Trudeau Scholar. I can say the actual word. I can say that, yes.

From video conference from Toronto, we have with us from the Canadian HIV/AIDS Legal Network, Ms. Chu. Via video conference from Burnaby, British Columbia, from Ratanak International, we have Mr. McConaghy, and from video conference from Vancouver, British Columbia, we have the Canadian Police Association, Mr. Tom Stamatakis.

Those are our witnesses. As you know and you may have seen, the witnesses or their organization each have 10 minutes to present, and then we have a question-and-answer round.

We will go as the witnesses were introduced.

Ms. Allison, the floor is yours.

July 10th, 2014 / 3 p.m.
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Conservative

The Chair Conservative Mike Wallace

Thank you very much for those questions and answers.

I want to thank our witnesses for joining us today. It has been very informative and added to the discussion of Bill C-36 in great detail.

This is our second-to-last meeting. We'll be taking a half-hour break, and then we will start our final meeting of witnesses on Bill C-36.

With that, we will adjourn.

July 10th, 2014 / 2:50 p.m.
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British Columbia, Canadian Association of Sexual Assault Centres

Lisa Steacy

Obviously, in my written submission and my oral submission, I think we do have to do something. I think it's important not only for the women who are in prostitution either by choice or by force, but also for all women, that we do something about prostitution.

We know, as my colleague and I were talking about earlier, that while not every single woman is raped, the fact that men rape women puts all women in a state of fear and danger, and I feel the same way about prostitution. I think right now we're talking about criminal law. That's the bill we have, a criminal law response to prostitution, and I think that as far as criminal law goes, I'll just reiterate my submission that with the striking of the provision that would criminalize women in some locations, I think that Bill C-36 is a fairly good start.

July 10th, 2014 / 2:40 p.m.
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Executive Director, PEERS Victoria Resource Society

Dr. Rachel Phillips

I can't really answer on behalf of the police on how they do their investigations, of course. I presume they are very attentive to complaints brought forward. It's not that they're ignoring the issue; they obviously haven't found the issue. So I trust that the laws against trafficking, were it to occur in our region, would be sufficient for pursuing criminal charges. I don't really see, necessarily, how Bill C-36 is clearly related to the issue of trafficking. I think it's a bit of a mess in terms of grabbing people who may not be at all trafficked.

I don't know if that was the question.

July 10th, 2014 / 2:40 p.m.
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NDP

Ève Péclet NDP La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC

In this debate we haven't clearly put a definition on the different terms, but I think it's important that we can differentiate in a debate. If I read the Criminal Code I think it's clear that trafficking in persons is defined as the following:

Every person who recruits, transports, transfers, receives, holds, conceals or harbours a person, or exercises control, direction or influence over the movements of a person, for the purpose of exploiting them or facilitating their exploitation is guilty of an indictable offence and liable

(a) to imprisonment for life if they kidnap, commit an aggravated assault or aggravated sexual assault....

So this is the definition of trafficking. There is also exploitation which is defined as this:

...a person exploits another person if they cause them to provide, or offer to provide, labour or a service by engaging in conduct that, in all the circumstances, could reasonably be expected to cause the other person to believe that their safety or the safety of a person known to them would be threatened if they failed to provide, or offer to provide, the labour or service.

I was just trying to note that if we define the term “trafficking” as it is defined in the Criminal Code and as exploitation is defined in the Criminal Code and prostitution...I was just wondering why there have been no charges for seven years with the existing laws. What will Bill C-36 bring to help those victims of trafficking and exploitation as it is defined in the Criminal Code?

July 10th, 2014 / 2:10 p.m.
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Conservative

Joy Smith Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB

That's really a first in Canada.

Marina, you are beautiful. Servants Anonymous is an amazing organization. Thank you for all that you're doing to give care to women and children. It's so good to hear your voice again.

Marina, you talked about comprehensive services and the fact that Bill C-36 is a very necessary first step and a first in Canada. You talked about the fact that we should be proud that Canadians and members of Parliament are doing something concrete now: first, targeting the johns and the pimps and making sure they are held accountable for the violence against women and children; and second, the acknowledgement of the plight of the victims, what it's really like. It's not Canada's oldest profession; it's Canada's oldest profession.

Marina, could you talk a little bit about at least three of the services, which I know you do so well at Servants Anonymous, that could be part of this $20 million? Talk a little bit, as Diane Redsky did yesterday, about the partnerships. The federal government can't do it all. There has to be partnerships between the province, municipality, and federal government. Could you address some of these issues, Marina?

July 10th, 2014 / 2:05 p.m.
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Executive Director, Centre to End All Sexual Exploitation

Kate Quinn

Yes. Thank you very much, Mrs. Smith.

Again, in our experience, we start with a vision and then have to implement it.

Bill C-36 sets out a path. Yet we know, because of all the complexities we've heard about, that some things will go awry here or there.

Our community group observed, in 1995, that section 213 was not working and that it was criminalizing the party without power. No changes were possible until recently when Bill C-36 was brought forward.

We really think that it's important that we review every five years.

I'm going to give one specific example from our provincial legislation; the vehicle seizure legislation. When it was created it was written with the best knowledge at the time.

July 10th, 2014 / 2:05 p.m.
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Conservative

Joy Smith Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB

Thank you so much.

Hello, Kate, how are you? I didn't know you were going to be in Glasgow. My goodness, I'm so glad you are there and thank you for joining us. Thank you to all of the panellists for joining us.

I'm going to be asking questions of three or four different people as quickly as I can, as the time is very short.

Kate, we've been working in Edmonton for a long time and you're talking about provincial and municipal monitoring and evaluation. You are very supportive of Bill C-36. You've come across with some recommendations.

One thing you talked about is to evaluate how things are going after the bill, hopefully, is passed. Can you expand on that further?

July 10th, 2014 / 2 p.m.
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NDP

Françoise Boivin NDP Gatineau, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank all of you for joining us today. You are the second-last group of witnesses on Bill C-36. The Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights is clearly tasked with studying this bill. The committee's approach is often of a very legal nature, and that obviously may appear to be out of touch with your respective realities.

As a lawyer, I have represented shelters for abused women. I can tell you that the situation is not clear-cut, and the shelters don't always have an easy job to do. So we raise our hat high to all those who work in settings where women are exploited, abused and treated with a blatant lack of respect. Many of us work day and night to fight this scourge. We do have a legal job to do here, and so I will focus on that.

We understand the work you have to do. I am somewhat biased in favour of CALACS. I admire the work you do. I may be a bit more familiar with those organizations than other groups here today. I want to thank those groups again for sharing their experiences with us. I also want to thank people from outside Canada. I appreciate other countries' experience, as that can help broaden our horizons. However, our legislative framework may sometimes differ from that of another country. That is the legislative framework we have to work within.

The Outaouais CALACS sent me its brief, which is similar to what you said, Ms. Sarroino.

Can you tell us a bit more about the work you do on a daily basis to fight against sexual assaults? We can see that sexual abuse is often related to conjugal violence. You have unfortunately identified too many cases.

Can you give us an overview of the work you do in your community? Can you explain to us in more depth why section 213 is so harmful if we start from the premise that women are victims of prostitution? In my opinion, this provision is almost a dismissal of the bill. We cannot say one thing while doing the opposite.

Can you tell us more about the nature of the work your group does in various regions? Can you also tell us what the problem is with this bill?

Some people feel this a way to hide. I think section 213 is the source of the problem in this bill. The same goes for the $20 million. I would like to hear a bit more from you on this.

July 10th, 2014 / 1:45 p.m.
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Executive Director, Servants Anonymous Society of Calgary

Marina Giacomin

Thank you.

It's unfortunate you can't see me, because I look exceptionally gorgeous today.

I'd like to start by acknowledging the Treaty 7 nations on whose land I'm speaking to you from.

Thank you, Mr. Chair and honourable members of the committee, for this opportunity to contribute to your review of Bill C-36, the protection of communities and exploited persons act.

My name is Marina Giacomin, and I am the executive director of Servants Anonymous Society Calgary. I have been a social worker for over 25 years, with a primary focus on issues related to women and children, including violence, poverty, and homelessness.

I am also a survivor of sexual violence and exploitation, which I experienced beginning at a very young age and until my early twenties, including a year when I was 16 years old and frequented the Downtown Eastside of Vancouver, British Columbia. I have been free from that experience for 25 years now.

I would like to both personally and on behalf of SAS, Servants Anonymous Society Calgary—and, most importantly, the hundreds of women and girls we have served—thank the Canadian government for Bill C-36 and your recognition of the evidence of prostitution as inherently violent and primarily an issue of violence against women. We support the abolishment of prostitution in Canada and urge you to support this bill.

I will offer you the exit perspective today, and start by describing for you SAS Calgary and our experience and expertise.

Servants Anonymous Society Calgary has operated for the past 25 years providing a voluntary, comprehensive service for girls and women age 16 and older, with or without children, who are seeking an exit from prostitution; sexual exploitation, including other sex industry experiences; and healing from the related violence and trauma.

We have service data on over 700 girls and women: 100% have experienced violence; approximately 40% identify as aboriginal; and 75% are 24 years and older, with 90% of them, however, having been introduced into the sex trade as teenagers, predominantly around the age of 14.

We believe we are the most comprehensive service for this population in Canada, and have provided care to women and children from across the country. We work closely with both local law enforcement, including Calgary Police Service's vice and organized crime unit, and for the past many years have provided the mandatory training regarding sensitivity and compassionate law enforcement approaches to prostituted people for all new recruits of the Calgary Police Service. We also work in collaboration with our provincial and federal correctional facilities, with the RCMP, and on occasion with Canada Border Services.

Servants Anonymous Society Calgary provides a SAFE house program, which allows for an immediate exit from prostitution for girls and women. The SAFE program is professionally staffed 24/7; provides access to medical care, detoxification, and addiction services if required; and trauma recovery work also begins here.

The SAFE program is a 30- to 45-day stabilization program. A recent review of our outcome statistics for over 100 women accessing SAFE shows that women staying in the SAFE program for one week experience a 40% increase in successfully exiting to safe and stable environments. Women staying in SAFE for a minimum of two weeks experience a 50% increase in their success, and women remaining a minimum of four weeks in SAFE experience a 90% success rate in exiting to safe and stable environments.

Following SAFE, the SAS program offers transitional supportive housing in five houses located throughout the city, where women live communally with a live-in volunteer or supportive roommate. We offer permanent independent supportive housing. We own a number of fully self-contained apartments with a live-in volunteer unit on site to ensure safety and to provide any additional support the girls and women may require. In addition, we offer permanent affordable housing in the community through a formal partnership with our local housing authority.

Along with housing, women participate in an extensive daily life skills classroom. Our entire curriculum has been written by alumni and women with lived experience of prostitution and sexual exploitation. All of the women are assigned a key worker or a counsellor who is a professional social worker or addictions counsellor for personal case management and support. We employ a number of alumni who have gone on to complete their education in the social services. We offer an on-site professional child-minding service and a child development, parenting skills, attachment bonding therapy, and in-home support program for women with children.

SAS has a very high rate of children being returned from child welfare or child protective services to their mothers who are in our program, and a very high rate of pregnant women being allowed to keep their children upon delivery. Indeed, the catalyst for many of the women we have met who choose to exit prostitution have come to us because of either an episode of extreme violence, where they directly feared for their life, or the discovery that they were pregnant.

The final phase of the Servants Anonymous Society Calgary program is a six-month employment education support service. We offer follow-care support and outreach for any of our past participants to help them access continuing services in the community or return to SAS if required. We also help them develop résumé, job search, and interview skills; we offer through our social enterprise, on-site and in-community paid work experience programs, and scholarships for continuing education. In fact, a number of our alumnae have gone on to university or other post-secondary education to advance their education and improve their long-term employability. Women who complete the entire SAS program experience an 88% success rate in remaining free of prostitution, sexual exploitation, and are in safe, stable housing for a minimum of two years afterwards.

An independent social return on investment evaluation of our services was commissioned by the Government of Alberta, Ministry of Justice and Solicitor General. It was conducted from 2009 to 2012 and showed that our services result in a social return on investment of $8.57 for every $1.00 spent by government. These are reflected as savings to the taxpayer in the decreased costs of homelessness; law enforcement responses; inappropriate use of ambulance, emergency medical services, and hospital stays; incarceration; child welfare interventions; and homicide investigations. Clearly, comprehensive services supporting women to exit prostitution are of great benefit, both to the women and to the community.

SAS Calgary applauds the Government of Canada for recognizing the need for such services and for including financial provisions to support survivors of prostitution to exit and create safer lives. We support Bill C-36 and the focus on the criminalization and fining of pimps, traffickers, and purchasers or “johns”. We have, all too often, seen the long-term effects of violence and trauma associated with the sex trade, and this legislation is a first and necessary step in deterring those who prey on the vulnerable people in our society. We believe this legislation will require some small adjustments; however, for the first time in Canadian history, women exploited by the sex industry are being viewed with dignity, as people worthy of being given support to exit violent and exploitive situations, rather than as public nuisances.

Since Bill C-36 was unveiled, we have been hearing very loudly from the pro-prostitution lobby. We are told that some women choose prostitution as a viable career option, and while this might be true for an extremely small percentage of people, the media has reported extensively on this angle. It is not our intent to debate that point of view today. What we want to ensure is that the voices of experience from survivors of exploitation and prostitution do not get lost in a pro-prostitution debate.

What is vitally important for this committee and for Canadians to remember is that the majority percentage of women and girls are exploited, are forced or coerced into prostitution, and are trapped by violence and threats. Legalization should not be an option. This is not a job.

Evidence shows that there are large numbers of women and girls who would leave prostitution if they had the means to do so. And we know this because we operate one of the most comprehensive exit programs in the country and sometimes we have to turn women, girls, and children away because we don't have the space. In fact, as of this week, we have a waiting list of 14 women, meaning an average of 1 to 2 months before they can get in. Those days could mean the difference between life and death for someone's daughter, their mother, or their sister.

It is also clearly evidenced in the research that focusing the criminalization on sex purchasers and pimps or traffickers helps vulnerable women to exit, and begins to support the public's understanding of prostitution as an issue of gender inequity and violence against women.

We would like to offer one recommendation for an amendment, particularly subsection 213 (1.1) regarding communication offences in relation to the expectation of the presence of children or persons under the age of 18. While SAS supports the legislation's intention to prevent the spread of social norms that treat women as sexual objects and to keep impressionable children somewhat safe from the social harms resulting from prostitution, we believe that prostitutes themselves must be held immune to this provision, understanding that they themselves are victims. We recommend that the bill be amended here to reflect this.

We would suggest that the rigorous enforcement of Bill C-36 and heavy fines and punishments put in place to target johns who attempt to purchase or procure a prostitute will offer a strong deterrent in such locations and support the objectives of Bill C-36's preamble, without criminalizing prostitutes themselves.

We believe this will fortify the legislation against further legal or human rights challenges. It is not a human right to have sex, or to have access to someone else's body for such, but we do each have the right to safety and protection. We know that this will support more vulnerable people in asking for help from police and in seeking to exit from prostitution.

Our experience, from having helped hundreds of women and girls, is that whether a woman was forced or coerced into prostitution as a young girl, or whether she made a decision based on very limited or unreasonable options, violence and trauma are always present factors. And once in prostitution, many girls and women become trapped. As one woman from our program explains, "The only way out of being pimped is either death or being sick with HIV, because if you are HIV positive the bikers, [as well as gangs, and violent “johns”] will kill you themselves". Violence, is violence, is violence. There is no difference inside or outside.

For those who would objectify women and commodify their bodies, Bill C-36 sets out real deterrents. The additions to the Criminal Code will give law enforcement and prosecutors the tools they need to protect women and combat organized crime. We should all take pride in this made-in-Canada solution.

Merci.

July 10th, 2014 / 1:35 p.m.
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Glendyne Gerrard Director, Defend Dignity, The Christian and Missionary Alliance

Thank you.

Thank you for the privilege of being able to come before you today, the justice committee, to discuss Bill C-36.

I am the director of Defend Dignity, which is a justice initiative of the Christian and Missionary Alliance churches in Canada. We act as a catalyst for individuals and churches to get involved in ending sexual exploitation in our country.

The first step in ending sexual exploitation is to educate people on what is happening in their city and region, and so to that end we partnered with the Evangelical Fellowship of Canada to hold awareness events in 28 locations from British Columbia to the Maritimes in the last two years.

We've been in large cities and in small cities following the same format in every location. There are presenters from front line local agencies, from local police officers, from survivors, a policy analyst, and a police officer who is part of the Defend Dignity team who addresses the issue of demand. Governmental and non-governmental agencies are invited to network at each event, giving audiences further opportunities to learn about the issue in their region.

A number of the agencies and survivors we have partnered with at these events are witnesses here at these hearings.

These information forums have given Defend Dignity a national perspective and awareness of the scope of the issue, the services that do exist and the services that do not exist in many regions of Canada, as well as with the inconsistency with which police enforce prostitution laws and protect those involved.

As part of the C and MA churches we are seeing a growing number of congregations doing their part by providing service delivery to victims. Dignity House in Winnipeg is a second-stage restoration and healing home for women exiting prostitution that's operated by Kilcona Park Alliance Church in that city. U-r home is an incorporated safe house that's about ready to launch in Newmarket, Ontario, also supported by one of our Alliance churches. Other churches are exploring ways to provide services to victims.

Defend Dignity's mandate stems from our core belief that each person has intrinsic worth and value, and consequently every individual deserves to be treated with dignity no matter their gender, their race, their colour, or their socio-economic status. We do believe that prostitution is inherently violent, that it objectifies, oppresses, and commodifies people. Sadly in Canada, it has become a means to survive for the most disadvantaged and poor among us.

I was in Ottawa just last week and met with Jason Pino who is the founder and director of an organization called Restoring Hope, which is a weekend teenage shelter in downtown Ottawa. It initially opened just last February 2013 for teenage boys, and within weeks they had teenage girls coming to them saying could we please have a place for shelter because we're being forced to sell ourselves in order to have the basic need of shelter met.

Canada can and must do better for our young people. We need legislation in place that will protect our most vulnerable.

Defend Dignity believes that Bill C-36 has strong elements that will prohibit the exploitation, violence, and abuse that characterizes so much of prostitution. We strongly support the new offence prohibiting the purchase of sexual service in section 286. Research from Chicago Alliance Against Sexual Exploitation, from Eaves in Great Britain, and the outcomes from the Nordic model in Sweden tell us that the greatest deterrents to johns purchasing sex would be criminal charges, fines, jail terms, and having their names publicized. Holding men accountable for their actions will result in societal change, putting a stake in the ground that says it is never acceptable to buy another human being, and that women are not commodities.

In addition to this offence which criminalizes a buyer, and because we believe in the value and dignity of the offender as well as the victim, we do urge the government to consider mandating that each offender participate in prostitution diversion programs. There are only a few cities in Canada that offer john schools, but those that do report that many of the men, upon completion of the program, have a new understanding of the harm done to the women they had purchased, to their families, and to themselves. The john school run by the Salvation Army in Saskatoon reports that there have only been eight reoffenders out of the 699 men who participated in their school that began in 2002. These programs need to be mandated and expanded to cities across Canada so that criminalized men can begin to make behavioural changes. The fines collected from these offences and from the john schools should be put back into exit services for people leaving prostitution.

We also have serious concerns about section 213, and ask that it be removed from the bill. Our concerns lie with the issue that these sections target the most vulnerable in prostitution, street prostitutes, most of whom only sell themselves to survive. They see themselves as having no other option, due to the issues of poverty, homelessness, mental illness, addictions, and coercion. To add the penalty of a conviction and possible fine to someone who is already way down would be adding an unnecessary burden. We do not believe that this reflects the intent of the law as described in the preamble, which we think is wonderful.

In our work with survivors, we hear of how prostitution-related charges have kept them from finishing education and securing good employment. In one such instance, in Ontario, a young woman exited prostitution as a single mom, was furthering her education, and needed a criminal check for a required placement in order to graduate. Upon learning of the prostitution charges, no employer would place her, and consequently she did not graduate from her program. She was revictimized due to her criminal charges.

Defend Dignity also believes that it is unreasonable to state on the one hand that prostitution is inherently exploitative, with most prostitutes facing the risk of violence, and then on the other hand to lay charges against them. Since most prostitutes are victims of violence, no charges should be laid against them. In our work with prostitutes and with survivors, violence seems to be a recurring theme. In no other instance in the Criminal Code are the victims of violence charged. Only the perpetrators of violence should be charged.

In discussion with the office of the justice minister, Defend Dignity has been given the rationale that these offences will be handled at the discretion of the police, and this does cause us some concern. In our interaction with police across Canada, at our 28 events, we discovered that there is inconsistency in how police view prostitution, deal with prostitutes, and enforce criminal offences relating to prostitution. In some locations, police services are already operating under the new paradigm described in the preamble of the bill. They see prostitutes as exploited victims of violence, work to help them, and offer access to exit services.

However, in some locations, police deny prostitution's existence and did not know, until it was pointed out to them, that there were online ads for women for sale in their city. In that same location, youth workers were dealing with underage girls selling themselves for drugs, and yet the police refused to admit that prostitution was occurring. Other police at our events described charging the women and putting them in jail as their method of dealing with prostitutes.

New legislation regarding prostitution necessitates consistent training of police, from coast to coast, on the realities of prostitution and the inherent exploitation and violence involved. It is essential that this training begins as soon as the law is implemented. We just can't stress this enough.

My concerns for having well-trained police also come from a trip to Nunavut, where I listened to the stories of women being sexually exploited by family members. Police in the north need to be made aware of the familial prostitution that occurs and taught how to handle it.

If Bill C-36 is to be successful, then education for all, in the justice system as well, including crown attorneys and judges, must be part of the implementation.

Defend Dignity is appreciative of the $20 million in new funding that the government has promised for exit services. However, when compared to the $8 million that Manitoba spends each year on this issue, it simply is not enough. We also encourage the federal government to collaborate with provinces, front-line agencies, and faith communities in much the same way that this is being done with the “National Action Plan to Combat Human Trafficking”.

Canada stands on the cusp of creating a better country for countless children, women, and men currently being sexually exploited, and also for those who are at risk of exploitation as the new laws are put in place. Canada will be a better place as this law begins to shape society. It will be a Canadian society where people are not commodities, where men are held accountable for their actions, and where all are safe from predators. Therefore, it is crucial that the new prostitution legislation recognizes the social and individual harms of prostitution, that it aims to discourage it, and that it works to abolish it.

Defend Dignity supports Bill C-36, and suggests that the following improvements be made to create the best legislation and policy possible:

One, remove section 213 from Bill C-36 so that no prostituted person is charged for communicating for the purpose of offering or providing sexual services.

Two, provide standardized education for police, crown attorneys, and judges that would explain the paradigm shift of how prostitution is viewed as part of the implementation of the new law;

Three, mandate crime diversion prostitution offender programs, also known as john schools, with funds charged going directly to exit services for prostituted people.

Four, increase the amount of new funding for exit services to proportionately match what the Government of Manitoba spends each year on sexual exploitation.

And five, work collaboratively with provinces, faith communities, and front-line agencies to provide off-ramp services for prostituted people.

Thank you so much for giving consideration to these comments.

July 10th, 2014 / 1:25 p.m.
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Kate Quinn Executive Director, Centre to End All Sexual Exploitation

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and honourable members of Parliament and all my sister and fellow panellists.

I also want to thank the technicians who made it possible for many of us to videoconference in to this important democratic process.

Our organization did send a letter to Madame Boivin and Mr. Casey and to Mrs. Smith, as well as a brief, which may have been translated in time. In our letters to the members of Parliament, we included a letter from a woman who was in massage and escort for seven years, a woman who was exploited through street prostitution for 22 years, a mother whose daughter is among the murdered victims in Edmonton, a man who was a former buyer, and a therapist who works to help women in their recovery from complex trauma. So they are with me, even though I am here alone.

Also, I carry the stories of grassroots community action to address the heavy impact of men cruising our communities. I remember the fear of children being harassed as they tried to go to school and being asked if they were working girls. Women standing at bus-stops, just trying to go shopping or whatever they had to do, were being harassed by men.

So I speak from a grassroots experience of people in Edmonton trying to do something about a complex issue. I think it's very important for us to state that we do not see this as a partisan issue. We do see it to be a human rights issue, a social justice issue, and a women's equality issue. Our organization would say that we come from the stance where we do not want to see any vulnerable person of any age or persons in vulnerable circumstances such as poverty or homelessness, or having no other jobs or sources of income, or with mental health or physical challenges. We want to live in a country that creates equality for all, and we do not want to see vulnerable people preyed upon in any way.

I think it's also important to remember that in our history as a country and a colony, the weight of the law and discrimination has been focused primarily on women. What we're seeing here is a shift. This is a shift that we would like to support. We see it as a 30-year generational shift. We won't see the fruits of the shift in this law for a few years, but we do think it's very important to shift the accountability for a harm that is generated to those who create that harm.

In Alberta and in the province of Manitoba, there have been many united actions of community groups, of groups led by women who have lived experience, by political leaders, by crown prosecutors, and by police. We have developed resources over the years that are appropriate and respectful of the persons seeking health care or any part of the continuum of harm reduction.

At the same time, the exploitation does continue, so we feel that it's important to shift the accountability to those who are demanding sexual services and creating that market for that industrialization of children and women.

In our brief, we do say that the criminalization of the activity of buying will have a positive effect, but that the criminalization of those who are providing has a very detrimental effect. We do not support the ability to arrest children, youth, and women who are in places where children might be present. We would like to see that section of this bill totally removed. We've lived too often with the discrimination that others have mentioned, and I can cite how in Edmonton, our capital region, the housing commission will not allow anyone with a criminal record to get subsidized public housing and how people who have a history of solicitation are not welcome in that housing.

Women who want to become social workers at our university cannot apply, because they have a criminal record. Many jobs that women apply for require criminal record checks. Many women just give up, because they do not want to talk about what they've been doing, because of the stigmatization.

In 1995, our organization wrote to the Minister of Justice of the day. We said that as ordinary people, we see that there's a power imbalance between the person who's cruising and the person who's standing on the corner, and we think we need to create different options. We went to work in our own city and created, with the crown prosecution office and the mayor and the Minister of Justice, the prostitution offender program.

The Minister of Justice of that day said that because the community raised this issue, we will charge the men the equivalent of a fine, about $500, and we will return that money to the community to help heal the harm. So a multi-stakeholder group, including women who survived exploitation, parents whose daughters were on the street, front-line workers, and all the parties, identified that the priorities are poverty elimination, trauma recovery, bursaries so that people can rebuilt their lives, and public awareness and education.

In Alberta we have had a number of public education initiatives, but this education must be continual; it must be in the schools, around consent.

We must send a message. I'd like to see a message in every airport that in Canada we do not tolerate the buying and selling of people, so that men who are newcomers to our country know that in our country you cannot buy sexual services.

We'd like to see age-appropriate education directed at both those who may become vulnerable as well as those who may become perpetrators. Sadly, we're seeing that many young men are perpetrating violence against women, so we know that we need to look at how to educate our young men about what it is to be in a healthy and respectful relationship.

Our recommendations are that we support the direction of Bill C-36. We would like to see section 213 of the Criminal Code removed. We would like to see the investment in creative and positive social media and prevention education.

We would like to see more than $20 million. I misunderstood; I thought that was $20 million for one year. I can tell you that the groups working across the country, from PEERS Victoria Resource Society all the way across the country, would know well how to put that money to use to support women, men, and the transgendered wherever they are on the continuum.

We also think that it's important to establish a monitoring and evaluation process. Any law is a blunt instrument. There will be positive intended consequences; there will also be positive unintended consequences.

We had the past laws for almost 30 years. We think that we need to monitor every five years or so that we know what we are accomplishing by trying to set normative values in the law.

We also would like to see an easy mechanism established to wipe away and expunge the criminal records of anyone charged with section 213 in the past—any prostituted woman, male, or transgender—to remove this burden from their shoulders and welcome them into the fullness of our Canadian society.

In Scotland, while they still had some charges around prostitution, they just went away. No one had to apply for a pardon; the charges went away. We can do something; we can be creative: we're calling for this expunging of all the records of the past 30 years.

Those are our primary points. Thank you.

July 10th, 2014 / 1:20 p.m.
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Member, Board of Directors, Peers Victoria Resource Society

Natasha Potvin

As I was saying, I worked in the sex industry from the age of 21 to the age of 37. This was a choice I made for my daughter, and I am proud of that. It was also my choice to come testify before you today.

I have had two children and a husband for 11 years. I live in Victoria. I am on the board of directors of the PEERS organization and a member of the Canadian Alliance for Sex Work Law Reform. I was also part of Dr. Cecilia Benoit's research team. I currently hold a position at AIDS Vancouver Island in a harm-reduction program.

I am outraged by Bill C-36. I think it disrespects our human rights by stressing the fact that I am a victim because I chose to work in sex trade. However, I chose that job of my own free will. Referring to me as a victim or treating me as such ignores and denigrates my reality. It disregards my choice.

I had a good relationship with many of my clients. I was very fond of some of them, and others a bit less, but I never felt abused. However, I was a victim of discrimination. I was visited by youth protection service workers, who threatened to take away my son because I was a sex worker.

Afterwards, I became very reluctant to tell people that I was part of the industry. I felt very alone and defenceless. Consequently, had anything happened to me, I would not have reported it. I do not feel that Bill C-36 will help improve the situation. It will not put a stop to the stigma and judgment toward people who engage in this activity.

As Mr. MacKay said in his speech earlier this week, Bill C-36 should lead to a reduction in the supply and demand. Unfortunately, this bill will not have the desired effect. Instead of resolving the situation, the legislation will shift the problem and force sex workers to conduct their transactions in a context of increased pressure. There will be much more potential for conflict, and client screening will be inadequate. At the end of the day, the bill will make individuals involved in that occupation more vulnerable.

It will become more difficult for stakeholders—such as PEERS—to provide services, build trust, establish an open relationship with female and male sex workers or transgendered individuals, as it has been shown that street workers see criminalization as a threat.

I think that Bill C-36 could even endanger mobile response teams—which patrol the streets every night to provide frontline support—by prompting them to take to isolated areas like the clientele. Moreover, they will be doing their work in poorly lit locations, with no eye witnesses around.

I would like to bring up a relevant comment made by a PEERS member:

I am deeply concerned by Bill C-36. If that legislation is passed, it will impede my ability to screen and select my clients and negotiate my conditions—my own work conditions—during those meetings. The criminalization of my clients will make my job more difficult. I am already starting to plan ways to work around those new laws. I feel very nervous about my future and my safety.

In closing, I do not think Bill C-36 contains provisions that will enhance health and safety. I think it is very important to separate our moral positions regarding a so-called appropriate sexuality from our legislation and the consideration of our human rights.

I would have preferred to see a model mainly based on progressive principles, such as those implemented in New Zealand—a model that discourages the exploitation of young people while encouraging sex workers to practice their trade in a context that enhances their right to safety. Those principles do not force anyone to work in the industry.

July 10th, 2014 / 1:20 p.m.
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Executive Director, PEERS Victoria Resource Society

Dr. Rachel Phillips

Okay, sure.

I'm hoping for a little more clarification, if possible, as this section is worrisome to many people in our region. We have heard the term “pimp” used in relation to Bill C-36 with little clarification of what is meant by this term. My colleagues and I recently interviewed 61 persons who manage commercial enterprises. We found that 60% were women and just over 70% of these women identified as current or former providers of sexual services. Therefore, if this provision aims at so-called pimps, it is likely that it will capture other women, many of whom are or were sex workers themselves.

I'm going to run short of time here, but as a support person in an escort agency in our region noted:

In addition to supplying safer sex supplies, safe rooms equipped with alarms, indoor agencies provide a lengthy screening process.... We brainstorm tactics for boundary setting and coping with the small percentage of clients that are disrespectful, drunk, aggressive. I hold the safety and security of people in the agency I work in highest regard.

Another person who worked in an agency commented, “It allowed a safe place to work, and the company of other women with whom I felt a closeness.”

In closing, I'd like to reiterate that engaging women, men, and trans people in the sex industry can only effectively happen when you respect their varied perspectives and the complexities of their experiences and the complexity of factors that give rise to those experiences.

I will end with another quote:

I wouldn't have gone to PEERS if I thought they would tell me how to live my life or try to make my decisions for me. I went to them because I knew they would provide emotional support and a free medical exam in a non-judgemental environment.

July 10th, 2014 / 1:15 p.m.
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Dr. Rachel Phillips Executive Director, PEERS Victoria Resource Society

Thank you very much.

My colleague Natasha and I are very pleased to be here representing PEERS Victoria Resource Society, which is located in Victoria, B.C. We'd like to thank those who contributed to our joint presentation based on their experiences in the sex industry.

I am the executive director of PEERS, which has been in operation for close to 20 years. Our key programs include day and night outreach, a drop-in centre, a health clinic, employment and education support. We also prepare and circulate the “bad date” or aggressor sheet in our region.

Our programs collectively serve some 350 to 500 persons per year, depending on funding. Some of our program participants regard themselves as currently in the sex industry, while about a third would identify themselves as no longer in the sex industry but continue to use our services because they require assistance with housing, health care access, and other forms of social support.

I'm also a social scientist affiliated with the University of Victoria. In that capacity, I have conducted research on the social determinants of health in the sex industry for over a decade. Currently, I am conducting a national study of managers of escort agencies and massage businesses as part of a large CIHR-funded study led by Dr. Cecilia Benoit.

I want to begin with a few contextualizing statistics about our region specifically. Over the past 15 years, Dr. Benoit and her colleagues have conducted three large health studies of people in the sex industry. Great care was taken in the methodological design, including reaching a diverse and large sample. Looking across these studies, it was found that the median age of first transaction in the sex industry was the early twenties, with a significant minority of participants reporting selling sexual services before the age of 18. Close to 80% identified as women and just under 20% identified as aboriginal. The mean age at the time of the interview was early to mid-thirties. We did not find an over-representation of ethnic minorities, but rather an under-representation.

The individuals interviewed in these studies, as well as those we work with at PEERS, hold diverse views of the sex industry. That is really an important point: they do hold diverse views of the sex industry informed by a range of experiences. However, most take issue with being characterized fundamentally as victims. As one of our members commented, “Although I feel like I had to become a sex worker to support my little girl, it was still my choice, and if I had to do it over again I would.” Another commented, “When women like myself proclaim they are in the business by choice, but people insist on viewing it as victimization, it insinuates that we are not capable of making decisions for ourselves.” Another commented that “The only thing that pushed me towards escorting was my own curiosity.”

One of the very positive developments we have in our region is with the Victoria police. There are two units—the special victims unit and the community liaison unit—that work with PEERS to reach out to sex workers, to encourage them to report crimes and other concerns.

In preparing this for presentation, one of our police liaison officers informed me that there had not been any trafficking charges in our regions in many years, and few if no prostitution-related charges. Instead, their focus has been on targeting only those who exploit or harm sex workers. For example, there have been six reported incidents of what are commonly referred to as “bad dates” this year, and the persons who committed these crimes—not all of whom were sex buyers, by the way—are the priority for law enforcement, as opposed to sex buyers as a whole.

Below I would like to briefly comment on some specific sections of Bill C-36, although I realize it's been discussed extensively already this week. We agree with others who have detailed why proposed section 286.1 and section 213 will continue to constrain communication between sex buyers and sellers, and we also emphasize the need for sex workers to freely communicate with purchasers in order to assess them, set the terms of service, and obtain key pieces of information. Screening is only one aspect of it. You also have to require information from people, and people have to be willing to give you that information. That's part of establishing security as well.

The evidence of this was carefully considered in Bedford versus Canada, and painstakingly considered, I think. Moreover, section 213 fosters a climate of stigma and discrimination as it identifies people in the sex industry as threats to rather than members of the community. It will predictably be disproportionately applied to street-based sex workers. These individuals do not have the means to pay fines or obtain legal support, and their fear of police is already substantial and more deeply rooted than in prostitution law alone, particularly for those who are substance-dependent, without secure housing, or have been subjected to racial discrimination.

Proposed section 286.4, which criminalizes advertising also potentially impedes workers' ability to communicate for the purposes of safety and security. I won't go into that much because I think it's been covered and we have limited time.

Proposed section 286.1, which criminalizes material benefit from sexual services, places constraints on sex workers who wish to engage with others in assisting them. While we recognize that there are noted exceptions, and they have been discussed this week, this law is nevertheless very problematic, from our point of view, as it potentially places an onus on these parties to prove that they fall within these exceptions.

There was some discussion the other day regarding the meaning of the “no exception” clause in proposed subsection 286.2(5), which seems to suggest there is no form of material benefit permissible within a commercial enterprise. I'm hoping for a little more clarification today as this section—

July 10th, 2014 / 1 p.m.
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Lisa Steacy British Columbia, Canadian Association of Sexual Assault Centres

Good afternoon.

I'd like to begin by acknowledging that we're gathered here today on the traditional territory of the Algonquin people.

My name is Lisa Steacy. I'd like to thank the committee for inviting Mélanie and me to speak on behalf of the Canadian Association of Sexual Assault Centres, which I'll refer to as CASAC to save time.

CASAC is one of the oldest coalitions of sexual assault centres in the world. Founded in 1975, CASAC-member centres continue to provide front-line crisis support and intervention to women from Halifax to Vancouver, in English and French, and in urban and rural communities. CASAC speaks publicly for the thousands of women who tell us their stories on confidential crisis lines.

By providing women across Canada with crisis support, CASAC has accrued unique and intimate knowledge about the causes and consequences of male violence against women, including prostitution. Every one of our public statements on prostitution and male violence against women is informed by the women who call our lines and disclose the previously private violations of rape, battery, incest, and prostitution to front-line workers.

Formerly prostituted women have joined our group in Vancouver, the group in Montreal, the group in Ottawa, and in many other centres to train as volunteers or to work on staff to assist women who are surviving and trying to escape the routine exploitation and violation of prostitution. I'm assured in my conviction and compelled to speak because of these women, as are CASAC members across the country.

I personally have spoken to, met, and can name women who are prostituted on the street and behind the closed doors of escort agencies, massage parlours, and strip clubs and women who advertise themselves online because they bought into the notion that prostitution is a viable, safe, and empowering way to earn the money that they need to put themselves through university. These women have been threatened, raped, and battered by men who purchase sex. They have been threatened, raped, and battered by pimps and procurers. Every single one of them has struggled to endure and survive the day in and day out dangers and violations inherent to prostitution.

In 2001, our members insisted on and passed a resolution that prostitution is a form of male violence against women. In 2005, we further articulated our analysis that prostitution is a harmful practice of sexist and sexual discrimination. It exploits and compounds women's social inequality, the economic inequality of women living in poverty, and the racial inequality of women of colour and aboriginal women.

The government's proposed change to the criminal law offers an opportunity for society, through law, to stand up for and alongside women who insist on more for themselves, and for all women than, being bought and sold in prostitution. The very existence of prostitution not only creates a subclass of women commodified as objects to be bought and sold by men, it sustains the sexual and sexualized inequality of all women.

The definition of “consent” in section 273.1 that follows the sexual assault offences in the Criminal Code provides a useful framework for CASAC to counter the assertion that prostitution is an equal transaction or a sexual activity to which women consent. “Consent” is defined as “a voluntary agreement to engage in the sexual activity in question”. The brutal forces of poverty, violence, and inequality that coerce the vast majority of women into prostitution effectively negate consent.

Bill C-36 rightly situates the criminal offences related to prostitution in the section of the Criminal Code for crimes against the person. The women who call and answer our crisis lines across the country have known for decades that prostitution is not harmful because it is a nuisance or a vice, it is harmful because it is a violation of a person, most often a female one.

CASAC is encouraged that Parliament has drafted a bill that makes it clear that there's a vital role for criminal law to play in condemning and curtailing the continued prostitution of women and girls in Canada. In both the 2001 and 2005 CASAC resolutions, we agreed that criminal law can and should serve to prohibit and denounce male violence against women. Bill C-36 is a necessary response to the demands of women and women's groups that the government recognize that prostitution disproportionately impacts women and undermines their Charter rights to dignity and equality.

The provisions that criminalize the actions of johns precisely target the men who demand unfettered access to women's bodies. The provisions that criminalize the actions of pimps and profiteers accurately target the men who coerce women and girls into prostitution, who capitalize on women's economic and social vulnerability to recruit them into prostitution, and who benefit economically from women and girls remaining in prostitution.

The provisions that apply to johns, pimps, and profiteers are consistent with an understanding of prostitution as a criminal act of male violence against women. However, from our decades of work with women who've experienced rape, wife assault, incest, and sexual harassment, we know that there is a systemic failure at all levels to arrest, charge, and convict men for violence against women using the laws that exist. We must not compound this failure by pardoning men and further abandoning women by decriminalizing prostitution.

Diligent implementation of the proposed laws will be critical if they're to be effective in achieving their stated aims. The federal government has the responsibility to play a crucial leadership role in setting the standards for police and prosecutors across the country in order to ensure enforcement of all laws that criminalize violence against women. Any criminalization of women in prostitution is inconsistent with an analysis of prostitution as violence against women.

We unequivocally oppose the government's proposal to criminalize communication in certain locations in the name of protecting communities. The laws that criminalize johns and pimps apply in all locations, and a further provision that applies to prostituted women in certain locations is entirely unnecessary.

Bill C-36 correctly asserts that prostitution is exploitive, harmful, and violent. The vast majority of women do not freely choose to be in prostitution, so it is therefore inconsistent that women in prostitution can choose the location in which they are prostituted. This provision will likely compound current bias in the delivery of justice in which the most marginalized women—the destitute, the racialized, and the addicted—in street-level prostitution are disproportionately targeted and punished.

The federal government's allocation of $20 million in new funding to programs that assist women who want to leave prostitution is simply not enough. Prostitution, like all forms of violence against women, prevents women's equality. Any lack of equality makes women vulnerable to violence. Working to aid women after sexist violent attack is not enough. We must end the inequality of women and the use men make of it.

All parties and all ministries at all levels of government will need to make a substantive commitment to eradicate the desperate inequality that prostitution exploits and entrenches.

Thank you.

July 10th, 2014 / 1 p.m.
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Conservative

The Chair Conservative Mike Wallace

This is meeting number 42 of the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights on this afternoon of Thursday, July 10. It's our second-to-last meeting, pursuant to the order of reference of Monday, June 16, 2014, on Bill C-36, An Act to amend the Criminal Code in response to the Supreme Court of Canada decision in Attorney General of Canada v. Bedford and to make consequential amendments to other Acts.

We have a number of witnesses with us. I want to point out that our witness from Calgary via video conference, Ms. Giacomin, is on video now. We're having difficulty with video conferencing from Calgary because, we think, the Internet is so busy out there with the stampede. She will be able to hear us and you will be able to hear her. We may lose the video feed on occasion. Don't be excited, if that happens; we'll get her back. But she can continue to hear us and we can continue to hear her.

The witnesses, as listed in the orders of the day, are as follows. From the Canadian Association of Sexual Assault Centres we have Ms. Steacy and Ms. Sarroino.

How do you say your name?

July 10th, 2014 / 11:30 a.m.
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Conservative

The Chair Conservative Mike Wallace

Thank you.

Thank you very much for those questions and answers. That is our time for this panel.

I want to thank our witnesses for joining us today. This is the last day we will be having witnesses come to talk to us about Bill C-36. Your testimony today was excellent and helped us tremendously.

With that, we will adjourn until the next meeting, which is at one o'clock. Thank you very much.

The meeting is adjourned.

July 10th, 2014 / 11:20 a.m.
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Member, Asian Women Coalition Ending Prostitution

Suzanne Jay

Thank you for the question.

Bill C-36 is a very good first step in this. As for social services and remedying systemic inequalities, we've talked about providing women who enter Canada under exploitative circumstances with landed status. We also believe that a guaranteed liveable income would go a long way to preventing prostitution and addressing the vulnerabilities of women to recruitment.

Detox programs, universal child care, and settlement programs for women who are immigrating here would also decrease women's vulnerability, but also enhance their ability to participate in civil society and access their equality rights.

Did I miss anything?

July 10th, 2014 / 11:10 a.m.
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Co-Founder, Hope for the Sold

Jared Brock

Well, Mr. Chair, who doesn't want more money from the government.

We went to 80 cities, and they're looking to the federal government for a signal. What I think Bill C-36 does is it sends a signal that human beings are not to be bought and sold. We see that there are victims of circumstance, so let's decriminalize. But at the same time—and this is the key for us—we need to end demand for paid sex.

So we spoke with the head of anti-trafficking in Stockholm, and he said that it's a great tool to address demand. Now women can come to the police and they're not criminals and they can ask for help. If they want to get out, they have the opportunity. But at the same time, the police can really go after demand. So they're seeing that as a tool, as a weapon to fight trafficking.

July 10th, 2014 / 11:10 a.m.
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NDP

Ève Péclet NDP La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC

It's just really important and interesting to note that the section of the buying and the section of benefiting financially was put in the trafficking section of the Criminal Code, and not as crimes against the person. So it was put in the trafficking section of the Criminal Code.

My next question would be for Mr. and Ms. Brock. Thank you very much for everything, and I can't wait to see your movie, so I hope I'm going to be able to get a copy of your work on the net. I can't wait to see it. My question would be concerning...because you've been on the ground so you've talked to people and you know what's going on. As I was asking Ms. Big Canoe, we have a problem with implementing laws. We had the same problem with domestic violence, which, before, we had laws that existed but they weren't implemented. Trust me, studying law, I've seen the progress on implementing the laws.

What would you say was the biggest obstacle for the police officers and for people on the ground to be able to get people out of trafficking? What are the resources needed? It just leads me to my question about the $20 million for five years, which is $4 million for five years. We know that one province in Canada, which is Manitoba, spends at least $8 million per year for that. I'm pretty sure that provinces like Ontario and Quebec spend probably much more, but I wasn't able to ask the question. So what's different between Bill C-36 and the existing laws? Is it really going to change something? Or do we need more resources on the ground to be able to target the pimps, to target the traffickers?

Thank you very much.

July 10th, 2014 / 10:50 a.m.
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Liberal

Sean Casey Liberal Charlottetown, PE

I want to thank you for addressing the principles in Gladue. I've been trying to get witnesses to talk about it all week. Now we have the expert in front of us, so I want to ask you about that.

You were very clear that you felt Bill C-36 runs afoul of what the Supreme Court of Canada had to say in Gladue. Can it be salvaged? Are there amendments you would propose that would make it consistent, or is it fundamentally flawed?

July 10th, 2014 / 10:45 a.m.
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Chair of the Board of Directors, u-r home

Deborah Pond

I believe it should not be in Bill C-36.

I believe that officers can have other tools. The women, the youth who are criminalized would....

They need to be able to treat them as witnesses. They can talk to them as witnesses. They do not have to arrest them if they're not going to charge them. I think they just need to understand that they need other tools to do that.

July 10th, 2014 / 10:45 a.m.
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Liberal

Sean Casey Liberal Charlottetown, PE

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

After the opening statements, I thought we had yet another panel of witnesses who unanimously agreed that Bill C-36 is flawed to the extent that it continues to allow for criminal charges against persons who were prostituted or sex workers.

I'm a little less clear on that after your answer to Ms. Smith, Ms. Pond, so I'd like to start with you.

The question you were asked by Ms. Smith relates to testimony that we've heard at this hearing from police officers, who have justified the continued ability to criminally charge victims on it being a tool that they need to be able to detain them and talk to them, even if they're not going to charge them. Am I correct that you feel that section 213 should not be in Bill C-36, that the continued ability to charge those involved in the sex trade is not something that should continue?

July 10th, 2014 / 10:15 a.m.
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Deborah Pond Chair of the Board of Directors, u-r home

Good morning. I would like to thank the standing committee members for this opportunity to speak about the tabled legislation, Bill C-36. This bill will impact the lives of prostituted individuals, their children, and generations to come.

I'm speaking today on behalf of the board of directors of u-r home, and as a retired police officer with the RCMP. u-r home is a faith-based, grassroots organization registered in Ontario as a not-for-profit.

u-r home was established in response to a community need for safe and secure housing for individuals choosing to exit their exploited situation. This need was identified by police officers, community agencies, front-line case workers, survivors of sexual exploitation, and prostituted individuals as a critical component in supporting their desire to exit their exploited situation.

u-r home's objective is to establish safe and secure housing and support services for victims of human trafficking, including forced sexual exploitation, forced labour, and forced marriage. We will build mentoring and supportive relationships with trafficked and prostituted women in their restorative journey as they seek to understand their inherent worth and dignity as valued persons in our society. We believe in the inherent right of every person in Canada to live with dignity, equality, respect, and freedom from oppression. We do not subscribe to the belief that prostitution is an acceptable solution for the women, children, and men who are forced into prostitution due to racism, poverty, lack of opportunities, child abuse, or inequality.

We view prostitution as a form of sexual exploitation and work towards its abolishment. In a majority of occurrences, prostitution and human trafficking intersect, resulting in forced sexual exploitation. Project Safekeeping, an RCMP report, states the majority of pimps employ control tactics that would categorize them as human traffickers according to the Criminal Code.

Prostitution is not a victimless crime. It consumes the most vulnerable and marginalized persons in our society. We recognize that women, especially first nations women and youth, are overrepresented in prostitution. We believe that those who are prostituted are treated by the buyers and pimps as commodities with little value, and that the cycle of violence is inherent in prostitution.

u-r home applauds the government for its thoughtful work in the development of Bill C-36 in support of prostituted individuals. The government is taking a proactive approach in not criminalizing the prostituted, who are victims of violence at the hands of the buyers and pimps. Yet it stops short of total decriminalization of prostituted individuals. I know of no other offence in our Criminal Code that criminalizes the victim. I would encourage each of you as committee members, as you study Bill C-36, to amend and remove the provision that criminalizes those prostituted victims.

Regarding the purchasing of sexual services, this new offence would prohibit the purchase or attempted purchase of sexual services. In an article by UN Women on ending violence against women and girls, it encouraged drafters of sex trafficking laws to include criminal penalties for buyers to address the demand for the sale of women and girls for sex, and that penalties should be sufficiently severe to deter repeat offences. We believe that the same can be said in the drafting of our new prostitution laws.

Prostitution is built on the economic laws of supply and demand. If there is no demand from men for sexual services, prostitution would not flourish. In the study of Canadian adult sex buyers, it describes that buyers actively attempt to hide their sex buying from others, and experience some degree of anxiety or worry at the thought of being outed as sex buyers. The report further indicated that the buyers of sex had worried about being arrested for communicating in a public place for the purchase of sex.

Police and front-line agencies are seeing a trend of younger girls being forced into prostitution. Why? The buyers are demanding young girls. They want sex with a young virgin, so the pimps are supplying the demand by recruiting vulnerable young girls, often from group homes. We support the strong message that in Canada it will not be acceptable to purchase the body of another human being for one's own personal sexual gratification. If this legislation is passed, the buyers' conduct and the purchasing of sexual services would be illegal for the first time in Canada.

Profit, greed, and power are the driving forces for pimps, traffickers, organized crime groups, gangs, and businesses engaged in such criminal activities as forcing women, youth, and men into prostitution. Research shows that daily profits from one prostituted woman can be over $1,000 a day, earning as much as $280,000 a year, tax-free. A drug trafficker sells one kilogram of cocaine once, but a pimp sells a prostituted woman for an average of seven years, earning potentially millions of dollars in profit.

Addressing the purchase of sexual services is only one avenue to deter the exploitation of individuals. Seizing, restraining, and forfeiting the proceeds of crime—of everyone benefiting—is another effective tool that police officers can apply that will reduce sexual exploitation of vulnerable individuals. Forfeiting the assets and illicit wealth will take the profit from those who benefit.

We believe the advertising of sexual services both online and in print media that depicts women in sexual and degrading poses reinforces the sexual objectification of women. It has been said that women who grow up in a culture with widespread sexual objectification tend to view themselves as objects of desire for others. This internalized sexual objectification has been linked to problems with mental health, clinical depression, habitual body monitoring, eating disorders, body shame, self worth, life satisfaction, cognitive and motor functioning, and sexual dysfunction. Hatton, in a 2011 study, found that “Sexualized portrayals of women have been found to legitimize or exacerbate violence against women and girls, as well as sexual harassment and anti-women attitudes among men and boys”.

With regard to offences in relation to offering, providing, or obtaining sexual services for consideration, the government has outlined a legal framework in this legislation that encompasses its view of those who are prostituted as victims, vulnerable, and in need of support and care. We believe it is inconsistent of the government to establish new legislation whereby prostituted individuals are regarded as victims in certain situations but not in other instances.

We do not support the offences as described in the proposed changes to section 213. These offences will criminalize the most vulnerable marginalized individuals in our society—those who engage in street prostitution, the majority of whom are women. These women, who are poor, often homeless, addicted, and suffer from serious health issues and post-traumatic stress disorder, need care and support, not revictimization. We do not believe the risk of violence that is inherent in prostitution would be diminished, but this offence would force those involved in street prostitution to make choices that could risk their personal safety.

Research and disclosure by prostituted women support the findings that they experience violence in many forms from both buyers of sexual services and individuals who exploit them for profit, and not from the law. Police in Christchurch, New Zealand, have stated, “At least monthly we are dealing with a working girl being victimised in some way, if not more.” The law needs to focus the responsibility of the inherent violence in prostitution and victimization of vulnerable individuals where it belongs, the buyers of sexual services and pimps.

The continuation of the criminalization of vulnerable individuals will only create additional barriers to exiting prostitution—namely, criminal convictions. This type of barrier has already created loss of opportunities for jobs and completion of college programs where, for many young women, the co-op programs require a clear vulnerable screening check by police. We believe those who are prostituted are not choosing prostitution. There is no criminal intent.

I understand that the $20 million is not part of Bill C-36, but I would like to address some comments in relation to this proposed funding.

We recognize the importance of a public awareness campaign and training for police on the application of the new laws, but these initiatives should receive separate funding. The training for police is critical to ensure the consistent application of the new laws across the country, unlike the current situation. Currently, some police services view prostituted individuals as victims and in need of rescuing from their pimps and buyers, and work in this manner. Other police services criminalize those who are prostituted, thus creating inequality in the application of the law.

We support the $20 million in new funding. As many others have suggested, however, we strongly urge the government to dedicate sustainable long-term funding to the development of robust exit strategies and programs.

Survivors of prostitution have stated and shown that it is a difficult process for individuals to leave prostitution. Many of the social barriers that have been factors for entering prostitution such as poverty, housing, health, lack of opportunities, abuse, addictions, and survival can also be barriers for exiting. We know that legal prostitution for many is not a one-time event but individuals may exit and re-enter a number of times before they are successful in overcoming the barriers that keep them entrenched in prostitution.

It is essential that survivors of prostitution and prostituted individuals be included in the development of these exit strategies and programs. Many survivors have commented on the importance of developing relationships with a few trusted workers. Therefore, it is imperative that there is a continuity of resourcing and funding for staff retention in organizations that provide support and services to sexually exploited individuals.

Whether or not you amend Bill C-36 as suggested, as an organization we would support the bill as tabled. We would continue to advocate for the total decriminalization of all prostituted persons.

I would like to conclude with the words of my friend Beatrice Wallace Littlechief, who speaks of being prostituted as a child and exiting prostitution many years later as a forever changed woman:

At 14 years old, I was forced to sell my body to a middle aged white man who said as I wept, that he would take it easy and then proceeded to have sex with me. I was also in fear of my life if I didn't follow through. I was alone and scared and only wished that there was someone there to help me. He thought this was ok to do this to me, but somehow mainstream society thought I was the one in the wrong. As the streets hardened me and death evaded me, I think back to those early days and compare them to today with Bill C-36 coming to reality, and I am filled with joy and hope that this is going to save so many girls, especially First Nation girls like myself, from ever having to experience sexual slavery. We are vulnerable and left to fend for ourselves with pimps and evil just lurking and ready to grab us and eat us alive. There will be protection and exit strategies in place to help save these girls and woman who are trapped. For those that think prostitution is a chosen profession you are only fooling yourself, because what if your 14 year old came to you and said, I got a job as a prostitute, you would definitely not be jumping up for joy. I personally want to thank the government for finally stepping up and seeing myself and others in this plight as humans, as equals that deserve protection. I have been out for a long time but the scars are still there and always will be, but now there is finally hope.

Thank you.

July 10th, 2014 / 10:05 a.m.
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Christa Big Canoe Legal Advocacy Director, Aboriginal Legal Services of Toronto

Good morning. Aboriginal Legal Services of Toronto would like to thank the members of the committee for inviting us to make submissions regarding this bill.

ALST, the acronym we use, is a multi-service legal agency serving Toronto's aboriginal community. Our only clients are aboriginal clients, or families who have aboriginal interests. Our guiding principles include that aboriginal individuals require equitable treatment in the Canadian justice system, access to legal and related resources within the justice system, as well as understanding of the system and their options within those systems. Aboriginal Legal Services' Anishinaabemowin name is Gaa kina gwii waabamaa debwewin, which translates into “All those who seek the truth".

The Supreme Court of Canada has granted us intervener status in 15 cases in which systemic issues affecting aboriginal peoples were addressed. As it relates to this bill, Aboriginal Legal Services' most noteworthy intervention was in R. v. Bedford. I was the counsel for Aboriginal Legal.

Aboriginal Legal Services objects to the passing of this bill because of the acute aboriginal overrepresentation in the criminal justice and penal systems, and the overall impact this bill will have on a number of aboriginal sex workers, their families, and communities.

We agree with a number of positions taken by POWER and Pivot in their written submissions, and the Lowman submission, “Tripping Point”. Because we do agree on some of those points and because I have limited time, I will only focus on two areas of concern today. We do not believe that Bill C-36 is consistent with the Gladue principles, nor is it charter compliant and consistent with precedent.

There seems to be a suggestion that two completely different and incompatible views have been presented to this committee: one from current or former sex workers, saying that the work is fine, empowering, and a completely autonomous choice; and the second view saying that sex workers are vulnerable, poor, addicted, and just surviving. From our perspective as front-line workers, not only in the Canadian justice system but in providing services—aboriginal community, justice-driven services—we say that these can both be true.

They can both be true because different people have different experiences. As my colleague and co-counsel on the Bedford intervention, Ms. Emily Hill, has pointed out to me, this committee should mostly be worried about the impact of the law on the second group, which everyone seems to agree includes an overrepresentation or disproportionate number of aboriginal people.

Another important point that Aboriginal Legal would like to make is that the government can do everything it's planning to do to support exiting for those who choose to, without also criminalizing sex workers. Neither of these groups of sex workers should be criminalized or put in harm's way because the law fails to account for their lives, liberty, or security of the person.

Our main concern that we believe the passing of the bill will raise can be talked about in two parts. The first part focuses on overrepresentation and Gladue principles, and the second part focuses on sex workers' rights to ensure safety.

Before we begin our discussions on these two points, we submit that laws and policy are not benign. We've heard in the media and through some of the witnesses here that it's not the law that rapes or hurts individuals. But we have to recognize that law and policy are not benign. Historically, laws in Canada have been used as tools of oppression that have attempted to assimilate aboriginal people. The state's legal and policy attempts at eliminating aboriginal people are significant. The treatment of aboriginal people in law and policy has arguably led to poor social determinants of health and hosts of issues that aboriginal people experience.

This was cited in “Forsaken”, the report by the Oppal commission:

The long-term impact of these colonialist policies continues to be keenly seen and felt by the over-representation of Aboriginal peoples in nearly every measured indicator of social and physical suffering in Canada.

Law is not benign; law is purposeful, and law impacts us both beneficially and negatively.

Looking at the first part, when I was talking about aboriginal overrepresentation, this bill as it currently exists will criminalize sex workers through the communication provision. There is an overrepresentation of aboriginal sex workers—which all the witnesses seem to agree on—engaged in street-level and survival sex work. The acute overrepresentation of aboriginal women in the penal system, and the harm that incarceration or institutionalization causes aboriginal women, also applies to their families and communities. What we know of specific statistics is that three out of five federally sentenced women are aboriginal women.

What we also know is that a lot of those aboriginal women start off with minor records and administrative breaches that accumulate over time and see them coming back into the system, so that when they are charged with something they get longer sentences. This is known. It's well-documented. It's in a number of reports on aboriginal men and women.

One thing that we're excluding here, because the preamble and a lot of the submissions are focusing only on women, is that we also know there's a disproportionate number of aboriginal men and transgendered individuals as sex workers. It's important to understand that aboriginal men and women are affected when they're over-incarcerated. They serve longer custodial sentences, usually to warrant expiry; that means to the end of their sentences. They experience higher levels of discrimination while they're in custody and they're more likely to receive high-security assessment by virtue of being aboriginal.

These same factors are the factors that see enforcement and police over-policing certain parts of town that have aboriginal people. These are the same factors that relate to the discrimination that we saw in the Oppal report and in other reports such as the Aboriginal Justice Inquiry in Manitoba.

The Correctional Service of Canada is not meeting legislative goals. The disproportionate numbers of street-based sex workers, including those engaging in survival sex, are aboriginal and will be affected if criminal charges occur. The survival sex workers are the most vulnerable and the most marginalized of all prostitutes, and aboriginal survival sex workers experience higher levels of violence both in terms of incidence and severity.

In the past, we've presented submissions before the Senate on various bills that have recently come in. The omnibus bill, C-10, and more recently, Bill C-394. Essentially, our largest concern is that passing this act will result in the retreat, or undermining, of the principles as set out in section 718.2(e) of the Criminal Code, which the Gladue principles derive from. One of the biggest things that we're concerned about is the increased reliance on minimum sentences. This means there's less opportunity for appropriate and fit sentences, and this prevents judges from considering them as sentencing options.

For those who are incarcerated in the penitentiary system, which is three out of five aboriginal women who are federally sentenced.... Let me restate that. Three out of five federally sentenced women are aboriginal. For those who are incarcerated in the penitentiary system, realistically, they come out worse than they went in. We know this. They come out maybe no better, but often worse, with gang affiliations and substance issues and abuses they didn't have, and then they're released into the community without proper programming. The Supreme Court of Canada, in Gladue, stated that:

It is clear that sentencing innovation by itself cannot remove the causes of aboriginal offending and the greater problem of aboriginal alienation from the criminal justice system.

On Monday, Minister MacKay responded to one of the member's questions in that regard. He said that the law was consistent with Gladue, or that all laws have to be consistent. We respectfully disagree. The law, or the bill, hasn't taken into account the acute impact it will have on overrepresentation of aboriginal people if the communication clause that will criminalize sex workers is left in.

Based on what we know, incarceration in incremental amounts does not deter aboriginal offenders. That includes people who sell sex. The law, as it exists, and the law, as it exists pre-Bedford, doesn't deter the actual sale of sex. Arguably, what will happen is that criminalizing one element of it will do what happened in Vancouver, or the Downtown Eastside, where we saw aboriginal women largely, but a lot of sex workers, pushed into the darkened corner. These are the types of submissions that POWER and Pivot made in their written submissions, which we agree with.

In Bedford, our intervention focused on the constitutionality of section 213 of the Criminal Code. It was our position that the communicating provision violated both section 2 and section 7 of the charter and that such violations were not saved by section 1 of the charter. We also had the position that the state had a much larger role in depriving street-level sex workers' rights to life, liberty, and security of the person and that the limited choices available to survival sex workers were constrained as a result of government action, the law, and the law not being benign.

One thing that we learned in Bedford, and we've heard talked about, is gross disproportionality and it's the only thing I'm going to focus on due to my limited time. Bedford spoke to the gross disproportionality between the infringement of the law and the objects of the legislation.

The object has been recognized to protect the neighbourhoods that experience harms associated with street-based sex work. That's what was determined in Bedford. The court said that the court must balance the harms that those neighbourhoods face with harms that street-level sex workers face.

We, at the time, submitted that the inconvenience and discomfort do not reach the same harm level as that experienced by sex workers who experience violence, sexual violence, and death. Quite frankly, we don't see a difference between what the bill is proposing and the law that was struck down as being grossly disproportionate.

Simple wordmilling by saying that it's about safety and not about nuisance is not enough. It's not the true measure a court will have to balance in determining constitutionality of charter rights, and it will always have to balance the safety of the person at risk.

I'll close with what Chief Justice McLachlin said at paragraph 121 of Bedford, which is:

Gross disproportionality under s. 7 of the Charter does not consider the beneficial effects of the law for society. It balances the negative effect on the individual against the purpose of the law, not against societal benefit that might flow from the law.

It is our opinion that the scope has not narrowed so much. This committee should ask themselves whether the legislative object has really substantially changed, or has there been some wordmilling.

July 10th, 2014 / 9:50 a.m.
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Keira Smith-Tague Front-Line Anti-Violence Worker, Vancouver Rape Relief and Women's Shelter

Hi. I'll start, and then I'll be followed by my co-worker Hilla.

Good morning. My name is Keira Smith-Tague, and I'm a front-line anti-violence worker at Vancouver Rape Relief and Women's Shelter. Vancouver Rape Relief is Canada's oldest rape crisis centre. Since opening in 1973, our centre has responded to over 40,000 women calling our 24-hour crisis line and seeking our support to escape all forms of male violence against women, including prostitution. Our transition house provides safe shelter to over 120 women and their children escaping violent men each year.

Rape Relief is a collective of women of varying age and class, many of them women of colour and aboriginal women. Our collective, both historically and currently, includes women who have exited the sex industry. Our authority and knowledge on prostitution as violence against women is grounded in and advanced by our front-line work with women currently or formerly prostituted. We view prostitution as a form of male violence against women within a spectrum of men's violence, alongside rape, incest, wife assault, and sexual harassment. As such, we are deeply invested in amendments to the federal government's Bill C-36.

We know from members of our group and from women who access our services that the sex industry is both an expression and reinforcement of women's inequality in society. As such, many of the stated purposes of Bill C-36 in the preamble are consistent with our analyses. We are encouraged by and in support of this intent. We are in agreement with the acknowledgement of the disproportionate impact on women and children of prostitution, as it is consistent with our front-line knowledge of the sexist and gendered nature of this industry. It has already been said a few times, but I do want to repeat it. Almost all of the buyers in prostitution are men, and almost all of those sold are women and children. This fact alone shows the stark power imbalance between men and women in this industry.

The argument that's been made throughout these hearings, that normalizing this practice by fully decriminalizing or legalizing it will enhance women's inequality, is absurd. Women are already born into a world with a disadvantage to men. We live in a society where men have more power than women socially, economically, and politically. Overwhelmingly, men use that power against us, often along with their physical force or threat of it. We see this perfectly reflected in their entitlement to buy us.

Before I even talk about the violence and exploitation that is an alarming reality in prostitution, I wanted to make clear the very foundation of this industry as a sexist and misogynist one, and on that basis alone should not be condoned or legalized. In both the Bedford case and this process, men's demands to sex are being argued as their rights, and are being promoted and advocated for over the rights of women to equality in Canada. It's women's lives that are at stake, not johns' and pimps', and we expect responsibility from all political parties to ensure that you're invested in promoting women's equality first and foremost.

I want to talk a bit more about consent, as it has come up over the past few days. The notion that the relationship between prostituted women and the men who buy them is a transaction between two willing, consenting adults cannot be applied to prostitution. In the Criminal Code of Canada, it explicitly states that consent cannot be obtained if there are “threats or fear of the application of force to the complainant or to a person other than the complainant” or “the accused induces the complainant to engage in the activity by abusing a position of trust, power or authority”.

Consent cannot be bought. The very act of exchanging money or materials in return for sexual services reflects the coercion necessary by men in order to buy women.

We know from women who call our lines and live in our house that the source of the harm in prostitution is from the men who buy them and sell them, so of course we're completely in favour of those men being held accountable and criminalized for their behaviour. We are encouraged that the government has acknowledged the profit and power of advertisers of the sex industry, and are in support of the inclusion of them under those to be criminalized for their exploitative behaviour as well.

We know that the growth of trafficking is fuelled by the local demand by men, which increases the trafficking of women and girls both domestically and internationally. Therefore, we agree that it is necessary to denounce and prohibit the purchase of sexual services because it creates a demand for prostitution. Direct criminalization of purchasing sexual services in any location is positive, sends a clear message to men that buying women is not acceptable in Canada, and is consistent with the government's intent to reduce the demand. We find it appropriate to situate the new law under crimes against the person in the Criminal Code alongside other forms of violence and trafficking.

We commend the federal government's intent to encourage those who engage in prostitution to report incidents of violence and to leave prostitution. As we know, issues such as poverty, racism, childhood sexual abuse, and addiction overwhelmingly affect women in prostitution, both before entering and continuing afterwards. We also know that most women who enter prostitution enter as children and teenagers.

There are provisions in this bill that we find extremely concerning and think are inconsistent with what the government's stated intent was to achieve in the preamble. The provision that would criminalize women communicating in public places for the purposes of prostitution where persons under the age of 18 can reasonably be expected to be present is inconsistent with the understanding that prostitution is a practice that overwhelmingly targets, exploits, and coerces vulnerable women, and therefore their continued criminalization is in contradiction to the objective to protect them.

We are disappointed that this particular provision will target and punish the most marginalized, those women forced to prostitute in public space who are overwhelmingly aboriginal women and largely impoverished, and we believe it is a dangerous step back in protecting them from men's violence. If the intent of the law is to protect exploited persons, then the location in which they are exploited should not determine whether they face criminal sanctions.

Rape Relief has argued that government funding be provided to alleviate women's impoverishment and help support women to leave prostitution. So we are encouraged that some federal money is included as an initiative alongside Bill C-36. However, we do not think $20 million is significant enough in reality to provide women with alternatives to prostitution. In order for women to have economic options other than prostitution, there must be funding and attention to the current conditions of women's lives in Canada. Women don't have enough money to live on in B.C. and across the country. We see this first-hand with our residents and their children and the numerous women calling us for shelter each day and night.

Women need a guaranteed livable income, adequate and affordable safe housing options, affordable child care, and more women-only detox beds in treatment centres, to be established in addition to the funding already allocated to exiting services. On top of these changes, we recommend that funding be allocated to existing women's groups already providing front-line services and should not be diverted to policing.

If passed, Bill C-36 has the potential to set a precedent in Canada that the buying and selling of women and girls by men will not be tolerated and for this we are hopeful the government will listen and follow the lead of women's groups and survivors. Vancouver Rape Relief and Women's Shelter stands firm in calling for legislation to criminalize pimps, johns, and profiteers for their violence against women, but we absolutely cannot endorse any criminalization of women in this bill, and for this we call on the justice committee to remove this provision. As long as men view women as commodities that can be bought or sold and women face being penalized for their own exploitation, women will not have full access to participate as equal members of society.

July 10th, 2014 / 9:50 a.m.
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Co-Founder, Hope for the Sold

Jared Brock

Here's the big question that we need to ask as a nation: what are we doing here? Is prostitution really the best that we can offer to our most vulnerable women and children?

Look, if our goal as a nation is to make it easier to pay for sex, then let's toss Bill C-36 out the window right now. But if our goal is to create a more gender-equal country, to forge a nation that supports proportional rights, a nation that actually prevents sex trafficking, then let's seriously consider Bill C-36 as a great first step in the right direction.

The Supreme Court's core demand was to safeguard the personal safety of prostituted individuals. Let's take it a step further and safeguard the personal safety of every single person in Canada, for generations to come.

Personally, Michelle and I want to raise our future girls in a society where they're not at risk of being trafficked, and we'd like to raise our future boys in a society where they don't think they have the right to purchase other people's bodies.

Thank you for your time. I am 39 seconds over.

July 10th, 2014 / 9:45 a.m.
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Co-Founder, Hope for the Sold

Michelle Brock

Accordingly, we think that the intent of Bill C-36 is sound: to decrease demand for paid sex. This being said, we believe that section 286.1, regarding selling of sex around children, is too ambiguous. An amendment or further specification could bring the bill in line with its great preamble, which recognizes that people in prostitution are vulnerable and should not be treated as criminals, regardless of their location.

July 10th, 2014 / 9:35 a.m.
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Alice Lee Member, Asian Women Coalition Ending Prostitution

Good morning.

Thank you for the invitation to appear in front of you today to make this presentation.

I was selected to be part of the U.S. State Department's international visitor leadership program to exchange expertise on human trafficking and prostitution with the FBI, state officials, and NGOs.

We praise Bill C-36 because it recognizes that human trafficking and prostitution are closely linked and related. Human trafficking is intrinsic to the Asian woman's experience of prostitution, regardless of what country she comes from.

The interconnected nature of human trafficking and prostitution is logical, given that we adopted the Palermo Protocol to Prevent, Suppress and Punish Trafficking in Persons, as well the CEDAW convention. The bill demonstrates leadership nationally and internationally through its commitment to dignity and equality. It is clear to us that Canada rejects the dehumanizing claim that racialized women freely choose prostitution and that somehow we're not harmed by prostitution.

We welcome the political leadership that the bill offers in allowing the police to effectively act on evidence of organized crime in human trafficking and human trafficking into prostitution.

We're especially aware that, currently, the human trafficking law we have only applies to the traffickers, but does not apply to the buyers. The bill makes it illegal for a man to knowingly buy a trafficked woman. The bill also helps prevent the transformation of organized crime into regular members of a legitimate business community.

Those who exploit Asian women for prostitution use various methods to control them. We know pimps will confiscate immigration documents or passports. They are known to encourage and force women to overstay visas, leaving women with illegal immigrant status. They are also known to threaten women who are not regularized with deportation or arrest.

By potentially removing the automatic criminalization of prostituted women, Bill C-36 offers some improvement in response to women in situations of exploitation. However, current immigration contradicts the spirit of the bill to defend women from exploitation. The bill does not change the balance of power created by our current immigration laws. We need this to change in order to enable women to successfully exit prostitution who might not have permanent status, citizenship, or a non-punitive means to be regularized.

The recent cases of abuse and exploitation of employers in Canada under the temporary foreign workers program demonstrates the vulnerability caused by poverty and a lack of secure immigration status. This is also an example of a gross imbalance of power in favour of the employer.

We recommend granting women in exploitative situations landed status upon arrival in Canada regardless of how each woman arrived. This will reduce women's vulnerability to being recruited or trapped in prostitution and will also contribute to her chances of successfully exiting the sex trade.

In conclusion, Bill C-36 establishes a progressive new legal paradigm. However, a made-in-Canada approach to prostitution must be much more robust if we want to create conditions that will allow us to abolish prostitution. Criminal law is limited in that it can only address violence and exploitation after it happens.

The Asian Women Coalition Ending Prostitution calls on our federal government to provide comprehensive social supports. These measures will both serve women who are exiting prostitution, as well as prevent women from being pushed into prostitution in the first place. These are the viable alternatives that we need so that we can counter the systemic inequalities that are in prostitution and be able to access our charter rights.

July 10th, 2014 / 9:30 a.m.
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Suzanne Jay Member, Asian Women Coalition Ending Prostitution

Thank you and good morning. We appreciate the opportunity to include the perspectives of Asian women into the consideration of Bill C-36. We have also provided a brief.

The Asian Women Coalition Ending Prostitution has the goal of changing societal attitudes towards women, especially women of Asian descent. We work to advance equality for women and to create opportunities for Asian women to have meaningful participation and to take leadership roles in civil society. We see prostitution as a form of male violence against women that prevents women's equality and that encourages racist violence. We also believe that prostitution can be eradicated.

We're a feminist volunteer group. Our members have provided prostitution prevention education in the school system and legal advocacy to women involved in the live-in caregiver program. We've been front-line workers in feminist anti-violence centres. We've provided concrete aid and support to battered women and raped women, including prostituted women.

We were interveners in the Bedford case, where we provided a critical race analysis to help inform the Supreme Court's considerations.

I'll start by saying that we applaud the intent stated in the preamble setting protection of women's dignity and equality as an objective of the bill. This is consistent with the principle that all Canadian law is to be understood and interpreted in the context of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. The bill's preamble demonstrates an understanding of the systemic nature of prostitution and the consequence of undermining women's equality on the basis of race, national or ethnic origin, colour, and sex.

We also appreciate that the bill acknowledges the danger that's inherent in prostitution and the profound exploitation done by the pimps, the brothel-keepers, the procurers, the advertisers, and the customers of prostitution to women, especially as it affects Asian and other racialized women. We recommend strengthening this acknowledgement by noting in the preamble the disproportionate impact of prostitution on racialized women.

We support the section of the bill that criminalizes advertising of sexual services because of the role that advertising plays in normalizing and entrenching racist and sexist stereotypes. For example, when we gathered online ads that were posted over a 24-hour period from the adult services section of the Vancouver Craigslist website, we found that 67% of the women advertised in the 1,472 ads we gathered were described or displayed by photo as Asian.

The Asian population of metro Vancouver is only 30%. It's reasonable to assume that Asian women comprise approximately 15% of that population but we're massively disproportionately overrepresented in that advertising. The advertising describes Asian women as providing a girlfriend experience. They're Japanese school girls, really young China dolls, Asian cuties, and they are paired with photos.

The pimps, procurers, brothel-keepers, advertisers, and others who are involved in the sales and marketing of prostituted women cater to these deeply racist demands. It's in their commercial interest to continue to normalize these stereotypes into Canadian society in order to grow the market for their product.

We experience negative consequences when our characteristics, whether they are real or imagined, are sexualized and commodified to promote sexual services. These stereotypes dehumanize and sexualize Asian women and they block our access to our Charter of Rights regardless of whether or not we are prostituted.

From our experience, prostitution overlaps with wife battering, rape, and incest. These are all acts of sexist violence that are usually committed by men in private venues, such as the home, where privacy is used to confine women, reinforce the attacker's authority, and hide the violence from public view. Being indoors does not increase women's safety from male violence in general. However, indoor venues such as Asian massage parlours do enhance safety for men. They shield the pimps, brothel-keepers, procurers, and customers from scrutiny and they hide the violence that's used to control women and the violence that is inherent to prostitution.

We support the tailored legislative approach offered by the bill. It accurately targets the men who are the source of the harm in prostitution.

We also appreciate that the bill differentiates between those who depend on a woman's income without caring about how it's earned. That includes dependent children, hairdressers, and other service providers. These people are very different from the people who are parasitically invested in having a woman enter and stay in prostitution. Those people include pimps posing as bodyguards, pimping boyfriends, brothel-keepers, and prostitution advertisers.

We also think it's important that the bill prevents these men from using a marriage licence or a family or other intimate relationship to escape criminal responsibility for their violence and exploitation.

We call for an amendment to remove the sections that criminalize communication in public areas because it undermines the objective of equality.

We agree that it's harmful for children and adults to observe a blatant act of racist and sexist exploitation, particularly in a situation where one feels they can't effectively intervene. However, it's more harmful for children and adults to observe or know that an exploited person will be punished by the state for their own exploitation. We'd much rather that they were offered the protection of the law and the charter.

Arresting and charging male customers and pimps—and not the women—will effectively address the harms caused by communication in a public place.

I'm now turning the mike over to Alice Lee, who is another member of our group, to talk about human trafficking.

July 10th, 2014 / 9:30 a.m.
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Conservative

The Chair Conservative Mike Wallace

I call this meeting of the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights to order. This is meeting number 41 and we are televised. As per the orders of the day, as per the order of reference of Monday, June 16, 2014, we are dealing with Bill C-36, an act to amend the Criminal Code in response to the Supreme Court of Canada decision in Attorney General of Canada v. Bedford and to make consequential amendments to other acts.

We have a variety of witnesses here again this morning and I appreciate their coming. I will go through and introduce them. Each organization will have 10 minutes to present, and then we'll go to the rounds of questions.

First of all we have, from the Asian Women Coalition Ending Prostitution, Ms. Jay and Ms. Lee. From Hope for the Sold, we have Ms. Brock and Mr. Brock. From the Vancouver Rape Relief and Women's Shelter, we have Ms. Smith-Tague and Ms. Kerner. From the Aboriginal Legal Services of Toronto, we have Ms. Big Canoe. By video conference from Boston, Massachusetts, from u-r home, we have Ms. Pond.

With that, we will give the floor over to the Asian Women Coalition Ending Prostitution. You have 10 minutes to present. The floor is yours.

July 9th, 2014 / 5:30 p.m.
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NDP

Ève Péclet NDP La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC

I have just a quick question for Sheri, if I may call you Sheri.

The first part of the question is, how does criminalizing the client help women you deal with every day get out of prostitution?

My second question is—and it's the same question I've asked everybody about the resources—do you think the existing laws.... Would it change something to adopt Bill C-36, or are there problems in the existing laws?

I don't have much time left so I'd like your comment on that.

July 9th, 2014 / 5:25 p.m.
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NDP

Pierre Jacob NDP Brome—Missisquoi, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank the witnesses here today and those participating via videoconference.

I will be sharing my time with my colleague Ève Péclet.

My first question is for Mr. Paterson.

In your opening remarks, you said Bill C-36 should be withdrawn because it was impossible to improve.

I'd like you to explain your main reasons for saying that.

July 9th, 2014 / 5:05 p.m.
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NDP

Ève Péclet NDP La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to begin by thanking Trisha, Larissa and Heather for sharing their stories with us today. It mustn't have been easy for you.

You're bringing a lot to the discussion today, and I wanted to thank you for that. I applaud you for having the courage to appear before the committee.

You talked about the exploitation, trafficking and violence women endure. But it's already an offence under the Criminal Code to exploit someone. In a nutshell, any situation that endangers a person's safety is considered a crime.

Human trafficking is also a crime under the Criminal Code. Anyone who is using assault, aggravated or otherwise, to control another person, or who is exerting physical or mental control over someone else would be sentenced to life in prison.

How would Bill C-36 enhance the existing provisions to punish these acts? It is truly unfortunate that you had to go through what you did, and I am deeply sorry for that.

How exactly does Bill C-36 differ from the current provisions making it a crime to exploit or traffic minors or adults?

July 9th, 2014 / 5:05 p.m.
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Conservative

Stella Ambler Conservative Mississauga South, ON

Under Bill C-36 someone who is involved in prostitution would be allowed to hire that safety and security person, a body guard. The bill does recognize the importance of that. I would say though—

Am I out of time?

July 9th, 2014 / 4:55 p.m.
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Co-founder, Northern Women's Connection

Larissa Crack

I have to fully agree. Within the exiting strategies I used.... I went through a treatment program that had a police officer who treated the women with respect and who worked really hard at making these relationships. He became the middle person between the rest of the police force and the women, just creating these relationships.

It allowed women to talk to them and to open up. Women were more able to go through the court processes...for pimps and for their johns...when they had a police officer beside them who was supportive and understanding, and as she said, treating them like human beings and not criminals.

I think the government has made it clear. It's understood, within Bill C-36, that women are seen as exploited. So to turn around and criminalize people who are exploited doesn't make sense on any level.

July 9th, 2014 / 4:50 p.m.
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Conservative

Joy Smith Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB

Finally we're getting the stories out, aren't we?

So why is Bill C-36 good? It's because it criminalizes the buyers of sex. There is the human right to be safe in this country. You brought up that wonderful thing that you give to the kids...you know, the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. Everyone has a right to be safe in this country and that underlines this whole thing.

We've done an extensive consultation of Canadians, and without a doubt they are on the side of Bill C-36. What do you think when you come to Parliament and you hear this confusion and the muddlement? What do you think? What can we do to clear that confusion up so that we have all parliamentarians on side? This is not a perfect bill. No bill in its infancy is a perfect bill. I'm supporting it because I think it's a good start, not because I'm on the side of the government. I think it's a very good bill, and it does change the paradigms.

But how do we get this message clear about how important this is for the protection of women and children in this country? If December 19 comes along and we don't pass this bill, everything is legalized.

How do you feel about that?

July 9th, 2014 / 4:40 p.m.
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Conservative

Joy Smith Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB

Thank you, Mr. Wallace.

First of all, I want to put the focus on all of you. That's what's important.

Jeanne and Linda, it's so good to meet you; we've dialogued for so long. It's amazing what you've done over so many years.

Trisha, you're my hero. You always have been. You've been through so much and you've helped so many people. You're a very brave woman.

Larissa and Heather, I say the same to you. I don't know how you got the money to get here today. I have to find out, because you were so worried that you didn't have the money to get here. I have to thank you for what you're doing.

Honestly, for the first time we have a bill in Canada that actually criminalizes the buying of sex. That is the first thing that's ever happened in Canada. The second thing is what Heather referred to, the changing of the paradigm. When I came to Parliament in 2004, they were telling me that there was no human trafficking, that there was no such thing, and that, hey, there were no underage people.

The ICE unit has been listening to this today. My son was in the ICE unit. They kept saying to keep talking about the kids, because the torturers get the most money with the kids.

The whole world is listening today. In Parliament, the whole world saw the NDP and the Liberals vote against Bill C-36, so they really believe what they're saying. What we're trying to do, though, is start a new paradigm in Canada where your voices are heard, where something is done. I'd like you to comment.

Perhaps I'll start with you, Larissa, because I've had a lot of dialogue with you and Heather. Can you tell me, in terms of criminalizing johns and the buying of sex, will that help in the safety of women, first of all?

July 9th, 2014 / 4:30 p.m.
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NDP

Françoise Boivin NDP Gatineau, QC

My goodness, I don't know if it's the time, the fact that it's been three days into the hearing.…

First of all, I want to thank you all for your testimony, your experiences that you shared with the members of the committee. At the same time, I feel like I could pull my hair out.

I feel like we're hearing diametrically opposed views from groups on both sides I consider to be very feminist. There is agreement on a number of other issues.

That said, it's not that easy for us, the committee members, either, to sort all this out in our heads. On the one hand, we have one person telling us this is their occupation, and on the other, we have people telling us prostitution is a form of exploitation and goes hand in hand with violence. For every person who asks us to deregulate prostitution, another asks us to criminalize it, either wholly or partially.

As you can imagine, it's not straightforward. Perhaps the answer is crystal clear for some of you, but my 54 years on earth have taught me that very little in life is black and white.

I grew up with two solitudes. I used to think it was English and French. Now I'm convinced that it is prostitution, in a lot of aspects, because I don't know how we'll be able to end up reconciling all of these views. The bottom line is that we are trying to find the best solution.

What I was aiming at is that, for me, actions speak louder than words. We can talk until we die about equality and about the fact of respect. We can write it in the best charter we want but if, at the end of the day, the action does not follow then there is a big problem.

I will say to your panel, as I've said to other panels, that I find there is a lack of credibility with the law when I don't see what should be attached to it being attached to it. I see some of your groups saying to me—and pretty much everybody agrees that there are a couple of issues within the prostitution file where we seem to have an almost perfect agreement, except for the Conservatives—that the amount is definitely not sufficient. Pretty much everybody agrees with that. Thank God for that.

The fact that we should not criminalize sex workers—victims for some, workers for others—but that we should criminalize; we can find you all agreeing with that.

If we can't decriminalize completely, and remove those sections from the bill, my worry is that we have solved nothing.

My other worry is that if we don't attach what you so eloquently explained, Trisha, about your life and what happened and the life of your friends and what you've seen.... But when you said that you have to feed your kids or be in prostitution, my only question at the end of this week is: If Bill C-36 is passed, what will the person who has to answer that question do? It won't miraculously stop overnight, definitely not with $20 million, so what do you answer to that?

For your ladies who talked about torture, I so—

You have my heartfelt solidarity.

But are you telling us that the Criminal Code doesn't already cover it and that people who inflict torture can't be charged for it?

As I see it, torture is already covered by the Criminal Code. Torture in any form is not accepted in Canada. So there's a problem somewhere.

I was glad, Mr. Paterson, that you made the point that the Supreme Court of Canada did not say that we had to do something by December. It said that these three sections in the Criminal Code were invalid, but they are giving us a year before it comes into effect. If we want to do something then, do it, but we'd better do it in a way that doesn't put the lives of people in danger.

Maybe it's a lot of rambling, but we've heard a lot. I feel for you and I feel as if people are trying to push us on one side versus the other. There is no one side or the other. There is one side; it's called equality. If we believe in it we have to change a lot of things in Canada and it's not Bill C-36 that will change anything.

I don't know if anybody wants to.... I see Heather nodding. Maybe you can comment with the few minutes I left you. I'm so sorry.

July 9th, 2014 / 4:30 p.m.
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Coordinator, Violence Prevention, PACE Society

Sheri Kiselbach

Okay, can you bear with me for about three short paragraphs?

I'm not going to summarize Bill C-36. That's already been talked about quite a bit.

It's long been recognized that criminalization is not an effective deterrent to prostitution. Laws trying to stop true slavery or trafficking are getting mis-applied to sex workers, clients, and others involved in the sex industry. This exposes us to an increased risk of violence and denies us any protection against assault or access to medical, legal, and educational services. It denies us our human rights.

All laws should fit the actual needs, capacities, and circumstances of sex workers. Canada's continuing failure to decriminalize sex work means the federal government sanctions violence against sex workers and all facets of the industry.

We are strongly opposed to sex workers having to endure yet another failed experiment. Increased safety and dignity for Canadian sex workers must be at the centre of new legislation.

Sex work is work, and it should be treated as such. We will never truly gain equality, freedom, and dignity until the illegal status of our work is reversed. We deserve not only the right to choose how we make a living but also the right to be free from fear, mistreatment, and at the root of it all, free from the misconceptions that have long plagued the industry.

A quick note: my recommendation is decriminalization, as it views prostitution as a legitimate and necessary business. It allows sex workers control over their work and their work environment.

I had a few more things, but—

July 9th, 2014 / 4:20 p.m.
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Executive Director, PACE Society

Laura Dilley

Thank you.

Thank you for inviting our organization to come before the committee today. The Providing Alternatives Counselling and Education Society, by, with, and for sex workers, provides peer-driven violence prevention and support services for sex workers in Vancouver, British Columbia. We're located in the Downtown Eastside neighbourhood and have been providing services for the past 20 years. We operate under a non-judgmental, asset-based, and harm reduction model that recognizes the human rights of sex workers—female, trans, and male. This approach is based on self-identified needs.

Our sex worker-driven approach reflects an international movement that includes groups, such as Maggie's, in Toronto; Stella, in Montreal; POWER, in Ottawa; and the Canadian Alliance for Sex Work Law Reform. This movement emerged in response to the discrimination, violence, and persecution that sex workers experience due to stigmatization, and laws criminalizing sex work and sex workers.

Since the beginning, this movement has sought to address the inequalities that sex workers experience under the law. Our organization was an intervenor in Bedford v. Canada. Our violence prevention coordinator, Sheri Kiselbach, who I will have the pleasure of introducing to you shortly, along with Pivot Legal Society and sex workers united against violence, had previously launched a parallel constitutional challenge of Canada's sex work laws.

While we met the Bedford decision with great joy, knowing, in the words of Valerie Scott, that sex workers have for the first time been recognized as persons under the law, we are steadfast in our opposition to Bill C-36. As the committee has heard from our sister sex worker organizations, legal advocacy groups, and researchers, Bill C-36 will recreate the devastating harms that sex workers have experienced under the laws that were struck down in the Bedford decision. In pushing sex workers into unsafe settings and undermining their ability to screen clients, Bill C-36 will create the conditions that will lead to more murdered and missing women.

We're not recommending any amendments to Bill C-36 because, in short, we believe that the legislation is fatally flawed. Echoing previous testimony by Pivot Legal, the British Columbia Civil Liberties Association, and others, it would not withstand a constitutional challenge. As we know from past experience, constitutional challenges take years to wind their way through the courts. Let me be clear. It is absolutely unacceptable that sex workers in our community and across Canada be subjected to untold violence due to laws that are unconstitutional.

We call upon the committee and the government to reject this bill in its entirety until the current laws expire in December. However, we acknowledge that the government is unlikely to do so. We, therefore, call upon the government to immediately refer Bill C-36 to the Supreme Court and publicly release all legal opinions that the government has solicited on the bill.

Given that the minister has publicly acknowledged that Bill C-36 will face a future constitutional challenge, the government should recognize the critical importance of expediting this legal process. After all, I cannot stress this enough. The government is obligated to pass laws that comply with the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. If instead the government continues to pursue legislation that recreates conditions that perpetuate violence, then they will be inflicting structural violence on sex workers in Canada.

Now it's my pleasure to introduce Sheri Kiselbach, PACE's violence prevention coordinator. For more than 40 years, Ms. Kiselbach has been involved in the sex industry, first as a sex worker, and now as an advocate and educator. Ms. Kiselbach is a national expert in violence prevention among sex workers and has worked tirelessly to promote sex worker rights in Canada. Ms. Kiselbach's experiential knowledge, wisdom, and expertise are precisely what should have informed the legislative process, had the government been committed to advancing a bill that respects the human rights and dignity of sex workers.

July 9th, 2014 / 4 p.m.
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Larissa Crack Co-founder, Northern Women's Connection

As a survivor of sex trafficking and the co-founder of the Northern Women's Connection, which is a new grassroots agency that directly works with women who have experienced oppression, marginalization, and trauma as a direct result of the sex trade, I am in full support of Bill C-36.

The protection of communities and exploited persons act, Bill C-36, works to offer solutions to women and at the same time targets johns, pimps, and any other party who would benefit from the exploitation of vulnerable women, children, or boys and men.

The day that Bill C-36 was announced was a momentous day for women's rights and equality within Canada. For the first time, Canada has offered legislation that acknowledges the gender inequality and inherent violence that is aimed towards women within prostitution. Bill C-36 is Canada taking a stand and demanding that women are treated with the respect and dignity they deserve, instead of being looked at as a nuisance. With slight amendments, such as fully removing the criminalization of women—this is expanded on in our brief—we are confident that Bill C-36 will be a solid platform for Canada.

As a survivor of child sexual exploitation, I was somewhat privileged in the fact that I was able to access the minimally available services and supports that women over the age of 19 are not allowed to access, or there are no services present in order to help them. I was 17 years old when I exited the sex trade. As a minor who had been involved, I was looked upon as a victim and a child incapable of having made the choice of entering the sex trade. If a few more years had passed, I would have turned from a victim to a willing participant. A few more years in the violent and forceful means that started and kept me in the sex trade would have been completely ignored in lieu of my new-found ability as an adult to make informed choices.

With the average age of entry into the sex trade, as stated by the John Howard Society, being between the ages of 14 and 16, how does a girl go from being a victim of exploitation to a woman capable of making decisions about her situation within the matter of a year? Bill C-36 recognizes that all women are exploited on one level or another, and therefore should all be able to access resources and services to aid them in exiting their situation.

Despite the pro-legalization lobby's attempt at discrediting Bill C-36 by making false claims and erroneous assertions—these include, but are not limited to, a man's right for paid sex, disabled men's need for paid sex, and a woman's right to sell sex—legalization and decriminalization would only create further harms for women.

The first two claims place a man's sexual desires as being more important than the inherent harm and distress caused to the woman in the same transaction. No person's sexual desires should be allowed to come before the protection and safety of another human being, including those who have disabilities or other factors that minimize their opportunities to have partnered sex.

The third claim, that a woman has the right to do what she wants with her body, to an extent is very true. But there comes a point where the able and willing must put their wants and desires to the side—when the majority of those involved in the sex trade are there completely through exploitative means. The small percentage of women, as stated by a study completed in 2014, who truly fit into this privileged category is no more than 10% of the population. This small subgroup of women within the sex trade should not override the needs that the other 90% of the population has, which is to be protected and free from criminalization.

Bill C-36 finally recognizes that the role of legislation is to protect those who are vulnerable, not to further the harms by advocating for the privileged minority through the fallacy of legalization. Despite the pro-legalization lobby's attempt at stopping Bill C-36, sexual transactions and the ability to perform sexual fantasies have never been, and will never be, either a mandatory part of sexual expression or a human right.

The Northern Women's Connection believes a shift in the thinking paradigm of Canadians in regard to the sex trade is very possible if educational services are put into place that would recognize prostitution as an oppression that relies on such structural barriers and inequalities as poverty, colonialism, racism, addiction, and lack of resources for women.

Violence has been, and always will be, associated with prostitution. This holds true for a large proportion of women involved in the sex trade who admit to experiencing abuse and violence as a direct result of the sex trade. It doesn't matter if women are given 2 seconds or 20 minutes to assess and screen the men looking to buy sex. When women are required to identify violent offenders, their immediate safety will be put at risk. Predators can be manipulative, charismatic, and smooth talkers; all of which would make it easy for them to move past any so-called safety practices put in place by sexually exploited women, and we cannot put this onto the backs of women who are placed in this position.

As a 17-year old first exiting the sex trade, I spent years healing from the trauma and abuses that occurred during my involvement. Early in my recovery, I was diagnosed with PTSD to the same extent as war veterans, due to a combination of prostitution itself and the violence that becomes a normal part of the overall experience.

I have been held at gunpoint and watched my friend get murdered in front of my eyes. I was tied down for days at a time and injected with numbing drugs while men paid to rape me. I was drugged. I've been beaten and thrown out of the vehicles of men who didn't want to pay for the service they had received and suffered multiple injuries from the pimps who wouldn't accept anything under a predetermined amount of revenue.

After all of these abuses that I have endured, the worst part is now living with and hearing others talk about the sex trade as if it were a choice, a form of employment that could become normalized if Bill C-36 is not passed, and constantly hearing that what I went through could have been prevented by having a bodyguard or by having the privilege of working inside.

I had a bodyguard, who made sure that I was always making an income, who enforced the rules that I was expected to live by, which often included ensuring I serviced violent and abusive men. I also often worked inside, which prevented social workers and police from even knowing that I was there and which gave a quiet, undisturbed place for me to get violated, abused, and raped without anyone ever knowing that it was happening.

Hearing these lies and knowing the truth about the inherent violence involved in the sex trade is a form of exclusion that continues to victimize and marginalize the hundreds of women I have known and worked with over the past 10 years who have stories similar to mine.

Pro-legalization lobbies have put forth a large amount of energy and resources in the hopes of swaying the general public. These extreme measures are not surprising, considering the large amount of profit that the sex industry stands to lose if Bill C-36 becomes a reality.

Supporters of Bill C-36 stand firm in their position due to understanding the need to support and protect women while criminalizing those who are at the heart of the problem, while the pro-legalization lobby stands firmly behind profit margins without considering the human cost associated with it.

July 9th, 2014 / 3:55 p.m.
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Heather Dukes Co-founder, Northern Women's Connection

First of all, we would like to say that it's an honour to be here today in front of all of you. Thank you for granting us the opportunity to communicate on the importance of Bill C-36, being passed as the Canadian model.

The Northern Women's Connection believes that Bill C-36 is an excellent piece of legislation. It provides protection to women who are manipulated, coerced, and threatened into the sex trade. It will allow women to finally have the opportunity to learn that there may be a chance to exit this vicious cycle of violent sexual abuse.

When women learn that predators are criminalized, they will gain personal power and the ability to direct that power toward the very people who are profiting from their sexual services, financially, sexually, or for other unmentioned illegal returns.

Many women, including me, have worked hard to never have to use sex in order to survive and meet basic daily needs again. This is often difficult for women who are plagued with barriers in our society, such as housing, child care, precarious employment, and low accessibility to service due to being located in northern Ontario.

At six years of age, I was placed in the care of a 16-year-old male, who had the free will to treat me like his sexual object. I was also raped of my entire childhood, and my perceptions of life were damaged. I came to believe that it was the norm for young girls to engage in sexual behaviour.

This personal and systematic belief system, which is common among sexually exploited women, creates a structure that forces women to engage in precarious sexual activity in order to meet basic needs. After 20 years of addictions, and caressed with faces of death several times, I knew I had hit a place of complete demoralization. I came to a place where I had to surrender to finally receive professional help. I had to change my entire life.

Fortunately, I live in a country that has provided me with services for rehabilitation. The services I personally used, which are vital services for women who have experienced trauma, are mental health wards in local hospitals, withdrawal management centres, detox, treatment centres, and addiction counselling. I participated weekly in sexual assault counselling. However, I was not offered any tailored services in order to restore a healthy sexual life. I suffered daily about my past sexual behaviour.

The $20 million that has been offered through Bill C-36 will help create services that will specifically support the diverse needs of sexually exploited women. It was not until after I began attending Algoma University and was receiving an education for a degree in social work, that I finally realized that this was a common issue and that I was not alone.

The Northern Women's Connection is asking all members of Parliament to pass Bill C-36, so women can finally start receiving the help they need to change their entire lives, without ever believing that they are alone. In northern Ontario, we're going to need funds for education and reintegration.

Thank you.

July 9th, 2014 / 3:45 p.m.
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Community Engagement Coordinator, Exploited Voices Now Educating

Trisha Baptie

My name is Trisha Baptie, and I want to thank you for inviting me to be a part of this process. I would also like to acknowledge the Algonquin peoples, who are the traditional caretakers of the land on which we stand.

I am here today as a representative of an organization called EVE, former Exploited Voices Now Educating. We are a volunteer, non-governmental, non-profit organization comprising former sex industry women. Our mandate is to have prostitution recognized as a form of violence against women, driven by the demand for paid sex. We seek the abolition of paid sexual access to women's and children's bodies, and participate in political action, advocacy, and public education campaigning in order to pursue this goal.

EVE operates under a feminist model, acknowledging that prostitution is born out of sexism, classism, racism, poverty, and other forms of systemic oppression. Since EVE was established in 2008, members have worked alongside of a wide cross-section of groups—feminists, grassroots, academics, aboriginals, faith-based/community-based groups, and government officials—to advocate for the criminalization of the demand for paid sex, and the decriminalization of persons selling sex.

I am not only here because of my group's vested interest in this topic, but also because I have a 15-year history in prostitution. I was prostituted from the age of 13 to the age of 28. The last 10 of those years were in Vancouver's notorious Downtown Eastside, the Downtown Eastside where I made many of my dearest friends, some of whom I would lose to Robert Pickton.

I entered prostitution when I was in my first group home after I was signed over to government care. I didn't call it prostitution at the time. I had no cognition that what I was experiencing was prostitution. I knew it was some form of inequality, as I was forced into the situation by a lack of alternatives. But no one stood up for me, no one told me that what was being done to me was not okay, and especially no one stood up to the men and said to them that they were breaking the law.

I had no idea at 13 years old I would be trapped in that world for the next 15 years, working indoors and outdoors, working licensed and unlicensed, preferring the streets of Vancouver's Downtown Eastside to working for someone else and giving my money away. At no point in time did I consent to the abuse I suffered. Consent was not freely given. It was bypassed because johns had the money I needed to keep myself and my family alive. Like so many other women and girls who find themselves in that circumstance, the choice of prostitute was one made under severe constraint. It was a choice between whether my kids would go hungry, or not. To me at that time there was no choice at all.

Money does not equal consent. It temporarily alleviates a dire need, the need to feed children, the need to feed addictions, the need to pay rent. Whatever the reasons, we had to be out there. Men took advantage of that desperation for their own sexual gratification, and used money to appease their guilt.

When Bill C-36 was released, I was encouraged when I read the first section of the summary that dealt with this exact behaviour. As a former prostitute, I'm aware that not every man is violent, but the threat of violence was ubiquitous in the sex industry, as it was impossible to discern which johns would attempt to cause physical harm, and when they might choose to do so. I feel justified in using gender language in this when I discuss my experiences because in 15 years of prostitution I was never bought by a woman.

We were particularly encouraged that the preamble of the bill contained statements like concerns about the exploitation that is inherent in prostitution, and the risk of violence, as well as recognizing the social harm caused by the objectification of the human body and the commodification of sexual activity. These statements are consistent with our experiences in prostitution. These words acknowledge that prostitution is a system based on inequality.

I want to make it very clear that it was never the laws that beat and raped and killed me and my friends, it was men. It was never the location we were in that was unsafe, it was the men we were in that location with who made it unsafe. We are glad to see that this behaviour will no longer be tolerated.

Some people want to make prostitution safer, but I know, we know, that you can't tell whether someone is a violent john until he deals out the first blow. This is true of unfamiliar johns as well as regulars. The claim that a prolonged screening time with potential buyers will protect women from physical harm allows society to wash its hands of the responsibility to take care of the most vulnerable and marginalized. What we demand is not safer, but safe.

The ban on the purchase of sexual services is an integral part of a movement towards real safety for women in Canadian communities. This is how we truly keep prostitute women safe. We do not allow men to buy them.

This policy sets a new tone for Canadians in how men treat and regard women. Canada, in passing this legislation, will be setting a standard for how men treat women. It will create a new social fabric for our young people to stand on, one that clearly says women and our girls are not for sale.

If we stand in agreement with prostitution we reinforce male privilege. We would effectively be saying that we will always have a demographic of women who will be offered up for sale. That notion contradicts the statements in the preamble of this bill that correctly note that prostitution disproportionately impacts women and children, particularly women and children of colour.

We do have concerns about this bill. We believe that section 213, the communicating provision, is redundant, as the culpable party—the sex buyers—would already receive criminal sanction. If, in fact, the government wants to encourage those who engage in prostitution to report incidents of violence and to leave prostitution, as stated in the preamble, the sellers of sex should face no fear of criminalization at all. A criminal record is a barrier to exiting from prostitution as it limits the ability for people in the sex industry to gain employment elsewhere.

We also fear this provision could cause prostituted women to be unduly targeted by their community, reducing them again to the category of public nuisance rather than human being.

In regard to the $20 million, we recognize this is a great start towards combatting prostitution, but we are very aware of how much this is just a drop in the bucket. We need funds dedicated to helping women exit prostitution, help support women until they feel they are able to make the transition to leave, as well retraining of the police about how to implement the new prostitution laws. We also need funds to do public education so the public can understand the changes made to the laws and explain how Canada is on a new trajectory for ending this form of abuse.

We resist the notion that men should be allowed to have sex exclusively on their terms at all times. We need to uphold the idea that mutual desire, comfort, and safety are a requisite component of sexual encounters. Anything short of this reinforces rape culture. For when men pay for sex, it is all about them, and has nothing to do with the person inside the body they are abusing.

We anticipate this law will have a normative function. Rather than give men free rein to ask women if they are for sale, rebrand pimps as businessmen, and attract organized crime, we will send a message that we value the women in our country and will not tolerate this gender violence.

If we want to build strong, safe, happy, and vibrant communities, we must put an end to this form of abuse and injustice. We rally to change male behaviour rather than accept women's subjugation. This subjugation causes physical, emotional, and mental harm for individual women and women collectively. A safe community for one and all is one that does not have prostitution.

July 9th, 2014 / 3:40 p.m.
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Jeanne Sarson As an Individual

I will continue.

I will now expand on the continuum of the persons who are forcibly trafficked, prostituted, and tortured. What and who are the johns buying, renting, or procuring?

Our answer has come to be that some prefer to rent children, including infants, for their pleasure of inflicting sadistic, sexualized, non-state torture. They are demanding, buying, and renting the so-called “sexual services” of underage prostituted girls who were groomed to normalize and sexualize torture and be rented out by parental pimps. You have to remember that children are where the money is.

I now share Sara's story of her drawing on page 7 of the brief. You can see her sitting on the counter of her father's store with an endless line of johns waiting to buy and rent her, and her father saying, “Bring her back when you're done”. That's a statement of her commodification and objectification. She was two.

To illustrate her continuous harm from forced prostitution and trafficking, I move to when she was 12 years old. A john rented her; drove her to his boat; took her to sea; and raped, beat, and water tortured her by repeatedly caging her and dropping her in the cage into the sea. During the continuous harm of forced prostitution and trafficking we estimate Sara suffered at least 24,000 torture vaginal, anal, and oral rapes. This does not account for the bestiality and the object and weapon rapes. She escaped in her late-twenties. For Lynn, in the story that Linda just told, we estimated that maybe she suffered 8,000 torture rapes.

We recommend to the committee that it ask that section 269.1 of the Criminal Code of Canada, on torture, be amended so that everyone, including pimps and johns, is held to account if they commit acts of torture and that torture be listed in Bill C-36, under paragraph 753.1(2)(a), to go along with the sexual assault.

We also support Bill C-36 to make sure that it does not criminalize prostituted women and children. As for the $20 million in funding, it will be inadequate. Many people have said that.

I would like to close on a cheap and preventive strategy that promotes the social paradigm shifts that we're talking about and promotes the human rights of women and girls. This is an example of me teaching grade 7 classes on human rights and the fact that the teachers came because of their concern about the misogynistic jokes from the boys about prostitution and human trafficking.

I use the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which Canada very proudly spent much time promoting in New York after the war. It says that everyone should be equal. If you opened it, which I do in class—and all the children get a copy, you will see that in your brief—the children ask about torture porn and about snuff. The girls talk about prostitution, so I have to tell them the stories that Linda and I have known for 21 years.

If you look at the universal declaration—and we're talking about women's and girls' equality—article 5 says that no one should be subjected to torture. The children are shocked when I have to say that only some people have the right not to be subjected to torture. The only people that have that right are those who are tortured by state actors. That means representatives of the government, which means MPs, police, and military. If it's a john or a pimp, and you're a private citizen who is tortured by a john or a pimp, you cannot take them to court and claim that you were tortured. For the whole concept of human rights equality, totally for women and girls, I ask that you ensure that section 269.1 of the Criminal Code is amended and included in your bill.

Thank you.

July 9th, 2014 / 3:40 p.m.
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As an Individual

Linda MacDonald

Thank you.

We are nurses from Nova Scotia. We have 21 years of grassroots experience. We're human rights defenders. We're also members of the Canadian Federation of University Women, which is an NGO of approximately 8,000 women across Canada, and they support us in what we're speaking about today.

We'd like to say that Bill C-36 is historic/“herstoric”. It's transformative in that it's socially, legally, and relationally a new way of looking at prostituted persons in that they are persons, not a nuisance, and that the demand is criminalized.

Our goal here today is to expose a population of women we have been working with and supporting for 21 years who are invisible to this country. They are women who have endured grave brutality. They are involved in forced prostitution, which means no choice. They were forced into human trafficking. And what we're focusing mainly on today is the non-state torture that they endured.

Non-state torture is an Amnesty International term. The UN definition of non-state torture is severe pain and suffering; it's purposeful, it's discriminatory—in this case, gender discrimination—and it's intentional. The intentionality, indeed, shatters the relationship with the self of the prostituted and tortured woman.

Who are the torturers, in our work? We found them to be parents, family, guardians, spouses, pimps, traffickers, and johns.

Where is this torture occurring? It's primarily in-house. It's definitely organized crime.

You're wondering about the type of torture. What we're going to do, as a way of explaining it, is read the story of a tortured woman. Her story was published in the work we do in the Canadian Centre for Victims of Torture.

Her name is Lynn. She is now dead. She said:

I was called bitch, slut, whore and ‘piece of meat’. Stripped naked and raped—‘broken in’—by three goons who, along with my husband, held me captive in a windowless room handcuffed to a radiator. Their laughter humiliated me as they tied me down spreadeagled for the men they sold my body to. Raped and tortured, their penises and semen suffocated me; I was choked or almost drowned when they held me underwater, threatening to electrocute me in the tub. Pliers were used to twist my nipples, I was whipped with the looped wires of clothes hangers, ropes, and electric cords; I was drugged, pulled around by my hair and forced to cut myself with razor blades for men’s sadistic pleasure. Guns threatened my life as they played Russian roulette with me. Starved, beaten with a baseball bat, kicked, and left cold and dirty, I suffered five pregnancies and violent beatings-forced abortions. They beat the soles of my feet and when I tried to rub the pain away they beat me more. My husband enjoyed sodomizing me with a Hermit 827 wine bottle, causing me to hemorrhage, and I saw my blood everywhere when I was ganged raped with a knife. Every time his torturing created terror in my eyes, he’d say, ‘Look at me bitch; I like to see the terror in your eyes’. I never stopped fearing I was going to die. I escaped or maybe they let me escape, thinking I’d die a Jane Doe on that cold November night.

That was Lynn's story.

In Bill C-36, there's an expansion of weapons in what can be used as restraint. Lynn's example shows that handcuffs could be used as a restraint in her case.

The other way we can expand on what torture is, what the ordeals are of the women we have worked with, is in our brief as well. It's a questionnaire that we developed and that we send to women who are interested in filling it out. Bridget Perrier was one of these, and she was willing to have me disclose that today.

This is another woman in Canada. We have identified 48 different forms of torture: forced impregnation; smeared with urine, feces, or blood; placed in a freezer.... All these are listed. This one Canadian woman endured 47 of the 48 that we have listed.

She summed up her statement by saying that she was sold to hundreds of perpetrators for sex and stating that “the goal of torture is to control and or break the human spirit through any heinous means possible.”

I would like to say to you that from what you've heard and in my opinion, I cannot call torture “work”.

July 9th, 2014 / 3:30 p.m.
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Conservative

The Chair Conservative Mike Wallace

I will call this meeting to order.

We are the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights, and this is meeting number 40 and we are televised. Per the order of reference of Monday, June 16, 2014, we are dealing with Bill C-36, An Act to amend the Criminal Code in response to the Supreme Court of Canada decision in Attorney General of Canada v. Bedford and to make consequential amendments to other Acts.

We will have a couple of announcements before we get to our witnesses. I'm going to make one announcement, and then Madam Boivin has a question for the committee.

The Department of Justice has sent out the summation, whatever you want to call it, of the note on the summary conviction issue. Everyone has it, or you should have it anyway. I just need to know whether you need us to add some time on Tuesday for the officials to talk about this particular issue. Our analysts have looked at the submission from the justice department and are in 100% agreement, but if you need the officials to come here for that, I need to add it to the agenda. If not, we'll just assume that we are satisfied with the response.

Madam Boivin, on that issue.

July 9th, 2014 / 3 p.m.
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Conservative

The Chair Conservative Mike Wallace

Thank you very much.

That was mine, I hate to tell you.

Thank you, witnesses, for coming tonight and being part of this review of Bill C-36. We have another panel today, and then three panels tomorrow, and then we'll be doing clause by clause next week.

So thank you very much.

The meeting is adjourned.

July 9th, 2014 / 2:55 p.m.
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Conservative

The Chair Conservative Mike Wallace

Since buyers are part of this change in Bill C-36, that's what I want to focus on. You say they were interviewed or surveyed. What's the breakdown? How many were interviewed in person, and how many were surveyed?

July 9th, 2014 / 2:50 p.m.
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NDP

Pierre Jacob NDP Brome—Missisquoi, QC

Very well.

You can speak to my next question, time permitting.

You said you were against Bill C-36 because it would result in more neglect and violence for sex workers and give rise to alienation and inequality, among other things.

I would like you and your colleagues to tell us how Bill C-36 would affect you if it came into force tomorrow morning.

July 9th, 2014 / 2:45 p.m.
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As an Individual

Georgialee Lang

She looked at the law, and she recognized that the objects in the Criminal Code on prostitution were not prostitution laws; they were nuisance laws. So when the court examined that, they then weighed the benefit of having a nuisance law against the safety issues that we recognize are inherent in prostitution.

What she said in the statement, that Parliament is not precluded from imposing limits, is certainly a fundamental principle. It is the federal Parliament that makes the criminal law in Canada. It is then the court that can determine whether that law is constitutional.

With Bill C-36, I believe the honourable justice minister and his committee have addressed the issues that were raised by Madam Justice McLachlin, and her colleagues in the Supreme Court of Canada, and they have done that in a very effective way.

There are numerous law professors across Canada who have examined whether this new law will pass constitutional muster, and there are many who agree that it will. There is no doubt that it will be challenged, but I think the justice minister has done an exemplary job of crafting a law that speaks to the interests of the parties involved in prostitution. It decriminalizes it for the women, unless of course they are selling sex around children. It speaks to the buyers of sex, who are the exploiters. The preamble to this bill clearly says that's what we're after, the harm, and that we, as Parliament, have the right to make that determination and make that law.

This bill is a good bill. It's addressing what the justices raised in the Supreme Court of Canada. I believe it speaks to the real issue, which is the exploitation of women and the commodification and the commercialization of women's bodies, which is a frontal assault on human dignity and a breach of human rights.

July 9th, 2014 / 2:40 p.m.
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Conservative

Bob Dechert Conservative Mississauga—Erindale, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to each of our guests.

Ms. Perrier, we've met before. It's very good to see you. I hope you won't mind if I call you Bridget.

I want to join with my colleagues in thanking you for sharing your story and the story of your daughter, Angel. I personally was very moved, and I'm pretty sure everyone who was listening to you today was equally moved.

I've had the honour to meet a lot of war veterans in my life, but I think you might be the bravest person I've ever met. We'll maybe have an opportunity later for that applause that's so deserved.

If I could award you a medal of valour I would, but one thing I do know is that you're saving lives today. I want to thank you for being here and for speaking out about the terrible things that happened to you, and to your daughter, and other people you know. Thank you for the work you're doing every day to save the lives of others.

I'd like to ask Ms. Lang some questions.

Ms. Lang, you mentioned in your opening statement the penultimate comments made by Chief Justice McLachlin in her decision, which I think are worth reading again because they are very important. She said:

Concluding that each of the challenged provisions violates the Charter does not mean that Parliament is precluded from imposing limits on where and how prostitution may be conducted, as long as it does so in a way that does not infringe the constitutional rights of prostitutes.

She then went on to say:

The regulation of prostitution is a complex and delicate matter. It will be for Parliament

—that's all of us and the people we serve with every day in the House of Commons and in the Senate—

should it choose to do so, to devise a new approach, reflecting different elements of the existing regime. Considering all the interests at stake, the declaration of invalidity should be suspended for one year.

She threw it back in our lap. She could have said that the provisions are struck down, as of today, and we have wide open, unfettered, unregulated legalization of prostitution in Canada. She didn't. She passed it back to us. She said Parliament has a role to play.

There are some who would abdicate that role, but I think it's incumbent upon us, and I think the Chief Justice has asked us to read the decision and to look at all the issues surrounding prostitution, hear the stories of Bridget Perrier and so many others who have come before us, and then craft a response. She's talking about the jurisdiction of the federal government of Canada.

She knows very well the division of powers under the Constitution of Canada. She's not talking about zoning and business regulation at the local level. She's not talking about employment or occupation and health safety regulation. She's talking about those things that are in the purview of the Parliament of Canada—criminal law; banking insurance law; railway law; and certain other areas obviously; national defence; taxation. But within that purview, of the tools we parliamentarians have to regulate the way prostitution is carried on, the primary one has to be the Criminal Code.

What do you think she was referring to? Do you think she was asking us to re-examine the Criminal Code and find a way of making it work in a way that protects the Charter rights of the prostitutes, and do you believe we have done so in Bill C-36?

July 9th, 2014 / 2:35 p.m.
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Executive Director, Resist Exploitation, Embrace Dignity (REED)

Michelle Miller

Yes. You are asking two questions; one on prevention and one on what she needs now.

On prevention, I would support guaranteed livable income, detox beds, access to treatment, job training and education, and affordable housing. Certainly in my city, I know those are incredibly important things.

As far as what that woman would need now, she needs some of those same things. She needs access to a way to exit. She needs immediate housing. She needs access to detox beds. She needs support. She needs job retaining.

I would also like to ask, how does this bill affect her? I'd like to talk about a generation later and talk about, potentially, her daughter. I think it would affect her daughter in that with Bill C-36, we're sending a clear message and a clear social norm that women are not for sale and that it's not okay to buy women.

For instance, right now in Sweden, where a similar law has been in place for 10 years, there are 10-year-old children who don't know the normalization of buying and selling women's bodies, so I think that her daughter would be less vulnerable and men would be less likely to be buying her.

July 9th, 2014 / 2:35 p.m.
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NDP

Ève Péclet NDP La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC

I still have time? Okay, great.

I'd like to ask Ms. Miller the same question.

You talked about a car that was cruising around and picked up that woman. If Bill C-36 is passed tomorrow, what would happen to that young woman? How could she be helped?

Provisions have been in place for years and they haven't helped. So what about that aspect?

The question we need to ask ourselves today is this. What do we need to do to wipe out situations of inequality and poverty, which are the root cause of the problem?

July 9th, 2014 / 2:30 p.m.
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NDP

Ève Péclet NDP La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC

Bridget, if you don't mind, I'd like to call you by your first name.

I want to tell you how much I admire you. Coming here to tell your story is never easy. And I'd just like to thank you for sharing your experience with us. I'm sorry you had to go through what you did and that there are victims of human trafficking who need your help.

It's really commendable, so thank you very much for everything you do.

My question goes beyond Bill C-36.

Let's say that Bill C-36 is passed tomorrow as it currently stands. It is clear that provision 213 criminalizes sex workers. Would you be willing to accept the criminalization of women if the bill were passed as is?

July 9th, 2014 / 2:25 p.m.
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Conservative

Joy Smith Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB

Thank you.

I have one question for Michelle Miller.

Can you tell the committee how addressing the demand will help all the women that you work with? Does Bill C-36 drive women underground?

July 9th, 2014 / 2:25 p.m.
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Conservative

Joy Smith Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB

What strikes me now in 2014 is that finally the voices of the survivors are coming forward. As a survivor and a person who has gone out and rescued yourself and a lot of young children and supported them, as I know you have, and also, on the Willie Pickton file—and you know that I worked with a joint victim of Willie Pickton's murders—what is something you want to say to the government right now because you're here in support of Bill C-36? How can we better get the voice of more of the survivors, the people who have been there, to come and speak out like you have so eloquently for so long?

July 9th, 2014 / 2:20 p.m.
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Research Associate, Department of Sociology, University of Victoria, As an Individual

Chris Atchison

Yes. It's vitally important that we have an ongoing understanding of this industry if we are going to regulate it and provide services to people involved in this industry. So it's vitally important that however we go about regulating this industry, we keep those doors of communication, those channels of communication, open. I don't see that Bill C-36 is doing that. In fact, I think the restrictions on communications and advertising will make it even less possible to access an already difficult population, and an even more difficult population, being the people who purchase sexual services, will become almost impossible now. Sex workers will become more difficult and clients will become impossible.

July 9th, 2014 / 2:20 p.m.
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Liberal

Sean Casey Liberal Charlottetown, PE

Could you comment on the absence of any measures in Bill C-36 with respect to research and data collection and/or any allocation specifically within the $20 million dedicated to research and data collection, please.

July 9th, 2014 / 2:20 p.m.
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Co-Founding Member, Sextrade101

Bridget Perrier

I think Bill C-36 will protect aboriginal women a little bit more. I think there is a dialogue that's opened, and with the amount of missing and murdered aboriginal women, this bill will recognize the need to protect them.

July 9th, 2014 / 2:20 p.m.
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Liberal

Sean Casey Liberal Charlottetown, PE

I know that you've been here all week. You've heard the testimony this morning from Ms. Ekberg. You've heard testimony from NWAC. There have been some questions posed on behalf of the Chiefs of Ontario with respect to concerns over the lack of recognition of the unique vulnerability of our first nations with respect to prostitution. Ms. Ekberg's suggestion was that there should be something in the preamble.

Do you have an opinion with respect to whether or not Bill C-36 adequately takes into account that unique vulnerability?

July 9th, 2014 / 2:05 p.m.
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Conservative

Stella Ambler Conservative Mississauga South, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all for being here today. We really do appreciate your contribution to our committee.

Ms. Perrier, I'd like to give you some extra thanks and gratitude for being here today. I know it must be very difficult to tell us your story, but it really does help us, and I think it helps Canadians who are watching to understand why we need to do this.

If you're okay with it, I'd like you to help me understand something. This is our third day here. I know you've been here listening, so I'd like your perspective on a particular issue related to negotiating or screening. I'd like to ask if you agree with some of the testimony we have heard from people. I'm not sure that they themselves have actually ever done this. Some have, and some say that Bill C-36 will make it more difficult for those involved in prostitution to negotiate a better deal, and it will make them somehow less safe.

I'm wondering if you think that will happen with this bill. If you have had any experience with that, perhaps you could let us know that as well.

July 9th, 2014 / 2 p.m.
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NDP

Françoise Boivin NDP Gatineau, QC

Okay.

And on the fact that we criminalize them with Bill C-36, I'm not sure, but I think I heard you say that you were not for that part of the bill. Do you think we have to remove this from Bill C-36, or will you live with it: “you're a victim, but you'll be criminalized anyway”?

July 9th, 2014 / 2 p.m.
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As an Individual

Georgialee Lang

That's another strong benefit of this law, that it actually recognizes that societal fabric. The people who don't want to have prostitutes around children can now feel protected because Bill C-36 prevents that.

July 9th, 2014 / 2 p.m.
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NDP

Françoise Boivin NDP Gatineau, QC

So in that inference, then, would you see Justice McLachlin at a later date in the not-too-distant future saying again that prostitution is not illegal in Canada? As well, going back to what was probably the main phrase she voiced in her decision, which you quoted—sadly, not in its entirety because when you said that—

. . . the Charter does not mean that Parliament is precluded from imposing limits on where and how prostitution. . .

—which is what the legislator is trying to do with Bill C-36, you just didn't mention—

. . . as long as it does so in a way that does not infringe the constitutional rights of prostitutes.

So my question for you is, in that part of that decision, if the Supreme Court of Canada had to review Bill C-36, is it your understanding that what has been put in Bill C-36 by the Minister of Justice and his team is okay with that part of the decision of the Supreme Court of Canada?

July 9th, 2014 / 2 p.m.
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As an Individual

Georgialee Lang

Not in all of its aspects, of course, because we know from Bill C-36 that women will only be criminalized if they are selling sex in the vicinity of children, but they are welcome to sell sex in brothels, in private homes. They are welcome to sell sex anywhere there aren't children under 18, and of course—

July 9th, 2014 / 2 p.m.
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NDP

Françoise Boivin NDP Gatineau, QC

No, but prostitution is more than just the buying.

So are you saying that you see Bill C-36 as clearly making prostitution illegal in all its aspects in Canada after the adoption of Bill C-36?

July 9th, 2014 / 1:55 p.m.
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NDP

Françoise Boivin NDP Gatineau, QC

Are you telling us today then that prostitution is now illegal in Canada with Bill C-36 if it is adopted?

July 9th, 2014 / 1:45 p.m.
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Elizabeth Dussault Member, Prostitutes Involved, Empowered, Cogent - Edmonton

Thank you, Chairman, and members of Parliament, for this fantastic opportunity.

I would like to take a brief moment to point out that I have not heard MP Joy Smith ask sex workers questions regarding the comments they have shared here. I would like to extend MP Smith an invitation to ask me anything she likes, and I will answer honestly.

I would like to state that it is an honour to speak to this committee. My name is Elizabeth Dussault, and I'm 30 years old. I would like to give you a little bit of my background to aid in understanding my points of view. I have been a sex worker for the past four and a half years. I started working in Australia in the sex industry, and when I came back to Canada I continued to work on and off. While in Australia and in Canada, I have worked for an escort company as an independent escort, and worked in several brothels. I have been advocating for improved and progressive laws and better working conditions for the sex industry for two years now. I have written a document for Edmonton’s bylaw enforcement services, been in the Metro News newspaper, the Edmonton Journal, and on Citytv's Breakfast Television Edmonton.

Then Prostitutes Involved, Empowered, Cogent—Edmonton, also known as PIECE, found me and gave me a home with their amazing group of women. As a brief aside, the median age of entry into sex work among the PIECE group is 26.5 years of age. We are fighting to speak for all prostitutes because so many of these women are fearful to speak due to what happens to them when they do. Let me tell you what happened to me.

I personally have lost my two jobs at brothels, as well as being fired from my lifeguarding and swimming teacher position, for being an advocate. PIECE knows that Bill C-36 will send sex workers further into the shadows, leaving them prey to abuse, rape, and serial killers such Pickton and others. I offer you another path. I have seen full legalization and ensuing regulations that leave sex workers safe, empowered, and treated as any human being in any job. I have partaken in a society that is progressive, where the clients are respectful and educated, the general society is accepting and enlightened, and where sex workers are upstanding citizens who contribute to their society.

Bill C-36 will not do this in the slightest. What will come if this bill passes will be disastrous and dangerous, unleashing further opportunities for fear, abuse, neglect, increased exploitation, and of course more deaths. My understanding of the Supreme Court's decision was that the current laws are not constitutional. Accepting this to be true, Bill C-36 is the rewriting of old stricken laws using similar, but different, terminology. However, buying it, advertising it, having a safe haven for workers, and criminalizing anyone who might be involved in protecting them equates to making the entire business of selling sex for money virtually illegal. This is in no way a solution to prostitution.

It is a very ancient profession and is not going anywhere. Canada will never be rid of it. Opting to stay in the dark ages and pushing sex workers into unsafe environments such as not having brothels where there is safety in numbers, not allowing them to be near one another on the streets, will effectively result in harm and death. In no other controversial job does the government remove workers' rights, make their jobs more unsafe, and turn a blind eye. Quite the contrary happens.

For example, liquor, gaming, guns, oil, and diamond mining are widely debated and fought against by religious groups, extremists, and other organizations. However, the government responded in kind with legalizing, regulating, and doing everything in its power to protect the general population from the detriment that can occur if these industries run amok. Canada created establishments and made zoning rules for these industries, devised and enforced rules to keep the public and the workers safe, and then taxed and benefited from these industries. This creates jobs, helps the economy, and establishes safety for all Canadians. This is what sex workers deserve in accordance with the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

Currently, sex workers are ostracized, neglected, and misunderstood by the government and the public. Workers are scared and fearful, even of the police who are supposed to serve and protect them. Bill C-36 will exacerbate these concerns. To me, coming from Australia to Canada and seeing the differences, the current laws here are appalling. To know that it could get even worse makes me sick to my stomach. I fear for every sex worker across Canada. I fear for every sex worker across Canada.

Since my media coverage I have been struggling to find a job in the sex industry and in respectable society. The sex industry fears hiring me because they will be arrested for their association with me. I am alienated from respectable society because I am a sex worker. I am ostracized from both sides. I said loud and proud that I choose to be a sex worker, that it exists, and that we are humans.

I have a clean criminal record. I am addiction free. I was an honour student who took all AP classes. I was also hand-picked as the only representative of my 2,000 person high school to go to Ottawa for a conference. I am an upstanding citizen who went to Grant MacEwan University majoring in political science and was selected to go to Ottawa to participate in a mock United Nations debate for a week.

I have travelled the world alone, worked for Environment Canada, Alberta Health, Telus, the University of Alberta, Grant MacEwan University, and the YMCA. I sit here now before you as a Canadian citizen, as a sex worker, and as a human imploring you to see reason and not allow this bill to go through. It will bring about chaos and death that our country does not have to endure.

Australian brothels and escort companies are run as legitimate businesses. They advertise, have open and honest discussions with their customers about services, and are zoned in specific areas away from schools and religious institutions.

I never saw a worker on the streets, as they are safe working as escorts or protected in studios. In Australia I could be open about my work and people would respond with kindness, respect, and general understanding of what I do, even if they disagreed with my choice. I have personally never met anybody who was human trafficked or underage in the industry.

I had an Australian working holiday visa, and immigration came in and checked up on me. They saw I was there by choice, had a visa, was capable of working and wished me good day.

I always felt safe and protected. I worked in a healthy, happy environment where we worked as a team and they educated me. I was even given a little red book that includes information on health issues, testing locations, consulates, and important phone numbers such as the police. It was in six different languages.

I had opportunities to get out of the industry if I wanted. I was never forced to do anything against my will. In fact I was supported to listen to my gut, be safe, and encouraged to have a healthy self-esteem and see myself as a productive member of society.

I arrived back in Canada and what I found was detestable. I expected Australia, New Zealand, and Canada to be fairly similar. What I found was disgraceful: the fear of the police, the segregation of sex workers from society, the laws implementing no drivers or security, the illegality of brothels, and the deprivation of open and honest communication.

Bill C-36 might be acceptable in Russia. However, let us be leaders along with New Zealand and Australia in a uniquely Canadian manner.

I am here today to plead with the government to do some more research, look to progressive countries, listen to people such as myself who choose to be in this industry and enjoy their work, and to look at human rights laws and give sex workers the respect they deserve.

I have seen how it can be. I have experienced an incredible model for Canada to emulate. As an educated, enlightened, and experienced young woman who at the age of 26 chose to enter into the sex industry, I appeal to your humanity. I beseech you to not move forward with Bill C-36.

I will leave you with this quote from Madam Justice McLachlin:

A law that prevents street prostitutes from resorting to safe havens...while a suspected serial killer prowls the streets, is a law that has lost sight of its purpose.

Thank you, again, Mr. Chair, and members of Parliament.

July 9th, 2014 / 1:35 p.m.
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Georgialee Lang As an Individual

Thank you.

My name is Georgialee Lang. I'm a lawyer in Vancouver. I was one of the many lawyers that were in the Supreme Court of Canada in June of 2013 arguing in the case of Attorney General v. Bedford, the prostitution case.

I was one of the lone voices that sought to urge the Supreme Court of Canada not to strike down the law, not to legalize prostitution, and my reasons are as follows.

Respect for human dignity is one of the underlying principles upon which Canadian society is based. We know the following from the Rodriguez decision of the Supreme Court of Canada:

That respect for human dignity is one of the underlying principles upon which our society is based is unquestioned.

Further, our Canadian government, in 1949, signed on to the Protocol to Prevent, Suppress and Punish Trafficking in Persons Especially Women and Children, supplementing the United Nations Convention against Transnational Organized Crime. One of the key principles that we signed onto was this:

Whereas prostitution and the accompanying evil of the traffic in persons for the purpose of prostitution are incompatible with the dignity and worth of the human person and endanger the welfare of the individual, the family and the community

Prostitution is simply a practice that arises from the historical subordination of women and the historical right of men to buy and exchange women as objects for sexual use. This practice is a disgraceful assault on human dignity. But prostitution not only harms the women and the girls involved, it also entirely undermines the social fabric of Canada. It affects more than those who practise or purchase services. It affects those who are prostituted against their will, it supports a network of interconnected criminal activity, and it forms societal attitudes that devalue an entire category of Canadians.

Now we ought to be proud because our Canadian history underscores Canada's rejection of exploitive behaviour from the decision to compensate the aboriginal victims of residential schools to our denunciation of human trafficking and child prostitution, but to legalize prostitution is to reverse the trajectory that promotes the equality of all persons and embraces the inherent dignity of each person.

Perhaps the best example that the harms inherent in prostitution are not alleviated by legalization is the research from the State of Victoria in Australia, where prostitution was legalized in the 1980s. The research results of Dr. Sheila Jeffreys and Dr. Mary Sullivan, both from the University of Melbourne, and Dr. Janice Raymond, indicates the following.

First of all, the object of legalizing prostitution was harm minimization. Of course, that parallels what the court said in Attorney General v. Bedford. There were safety issues at stake.

It was said in Australia that the legalization of prostitution would assist in eradicating the criminal element, guard against unregulated expansion of prostitution, and combat violence against prostitutes. The reality is that legalization did not eliminate violence; it did not stop street prostitution; it did not provide or produce a safer work environment for women; it did not dignify and professionalize the women in prostitution; and it did not contain the expansion of prostitution. What actually occurred was that legalization in Australia led to a massive expansion of prostitution. Ironically, the growth was mainly in the illegal sector. So while Australia, in the State of Victoria, legalized prostitution, it was the illegal sector that started to grow beyond their expectations, and particularly unlicensed brothels. Once they made brothels legal, a great many people just opened unlicensed brothels.

Legalization of prostitution also did not empower individual prostitutes. The notion was that they would be able to work together as entrepreneurs in legal brothels or set up in their own homes. What happened was that large operators, that is businessmen, dominated the brothel industry. Individuals or small groups of women could not compete at all.

Street prostitution did not disappear, simply because women who work outside have a host of social problems, including homelessness, drug addiction, being underaged, or are not willing to register with brothels or to register with the government.

The legislation that was intended to eliminate organized crime instead brought with it an explosion of human trafficking. Run by international crime syndicates, licensed brothels in the state of Victoria in Australia acted as warehouses for trafficked women.

That is why I say that Bill C-36 is a step in the right direction. It is a step that recognizes that prostitution is the exploitation of women and that it is time for Canadians and our government to step in and do something about it. I applaud the Canadian government for the steps they are taking and for this bill.

I want to address the constitutionality of this new law. There are many who have said that this law won't pass muster, that it will not survive constitutional scrutiny, and that it's simply a waste of money to put this law into effect. I disagree with all of these theories.

When the court in Attorney General v. Bedford looked at the prostitution laws, prostitution was not illegal. You have to understand that they were looking at laws that curtailed certain activities that surrounded prostitution, laws that were nuisance laws. They weren't laws that made prostitution illegal.

What the court did in Attorney General v. Bedford was to determine that running a common bawdy house, which of course under our old laws was meant to prevent neighbourhood disruption and disorder.... They found that denying prostitutes the safety associated with working in a permanent indoor location was grossly disproportionate to neighbourhood disruption, which is what the law curtailed.

In general, the former prostitution laws were designed to combat the public nuisance aspects of the sex trade. It's much too trivial an objective to justify violating prostitutes' charter rights.

The preamble to Bill C-36 sets much broader goals—nothing less than fighting “the exploitation that is inherent in prostitution” and protecting “human dignity and the equality of all Canadians”. No longer is the goal to prevent neighbourhood disorder, or disruption, or nuisance. We have a much broader goal.

Not only does the preamble of our new bill assert that Parliament seeks to denounce and prohibit exploitation and inequality, but it also sets out the aim of encouraging “those who engage in prostitution to report incidents of violence and to leave prostitution”.

Madam Justice McLachlin, in the Attorney General v. Bedford case, said this. In striking down the laws, the nuisance laws, the court made it clear in its decision the following:

That does not mean that Parliament is precluded from imposing limits on where and how prostitution may be conducted.

That's what Bill C-36 does. Bill C-36 speaks to the concept that the exploitation is a terrible assault on women and children and some boys and men. It cannot continue. This bill, I say, deals with the constitutional aspects. It provides limitations on where and how. In my submission, and in my respectful opinion, this bill will pass constitutional muster particularly with the new preamble.

Thank you for inviting me to speak.

July 9th, 2014 / 1:35 p.m.
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Executive Director, Resist Exploitation, Embrace Dignity (REED)

Michelle Miller

Okay.

Prostitution is a form of violence against women and women should not be penalized for their own exploitation. Rather, those perpetrating and benefiting from it should be criminalized.

Just briefly, we're concerned about the loophole in Bill C-36 that the new section 213, where women can be criminalized. We found that involvement in the criminal justice system is a really significant barrier for women exiting prostitution and for seeking help. It stigmatizes them and, more importantly, it acts as a barrier to their finding employment, and it disrupts their lives and their families' lives, including those of their children. Here I'll refer to Peter MacKay's hierarchy of vulnerability, that children are more vulnerable than prostituted women.

In summary, Bill C-36 is a progressive, historic piece of legislation that finally dares to criminalize the source of harm in prostitution—the johns—and decriminalizes those being exploited. We're in support of Bill C-36, but recommend that the new section 213 be removed from the bill.

Thank you.

July 9th, 2014 / 1:25 p.m.
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Michelle Miller Executive Director, Resist Exploitation, Embrace Dignity (REED)

Good afternoon.

I'm here representing REED, Resist Exploitation, Embrace Dignity, a faith-rooted women's equality-seeking organization that offers support to women in prostitution, provides public education, and addresses the root causes of sexual exploitation.

Over the last nine years we have worked with women who have been trafficked into the prostitution market in Vancouver from countries such as China, Mexico, Indonesia, Peru, and others. We have also supported Canadian women prostituting indoors and outdoors and those in both high-track and low-track prostitution.

It is from the perspective of a front-line anti-violence worker that I am speaking this afternoon.

Bill C-36 is a progressive, historic piece of legislation that finally dares to criminalize the source of harm in prostitution, the johns, and largely decriminalizes those being exploited.

The bill contains many assertions to be applauded. The preamble to the bill clearly affirms the inherent violence of prostitution, the social harm caused by the commodification of women's bodies, the disproportionate impact of prostitution on women and girls, and the fact that the demand for paid sex fuels the prostitution market.

Buyers will face criminal sanctions, the financial benefit from the prostitution of others is illegal, and you have pledged funds to help women exit prostitution. We affirm the steps you have taken to frame prostitution as a form of violence against women, and are encouraged that you do not accept prostitution as inevitable. Bravo.

At the same time we are concerned that section 213 of the Criminal Code, which allows for the continued criminalization of women selling sex, undercuts the intent of the bill. While selling sex is otherwise decriminalized throughout Bill C-36, it is considered illegal if the solicitation happens anywhere in public near where one can reasonably expect to find persons under 18.

We at REED are concerned that section 213 allows broad loopholes through which prostituted women can be criminalized and subject to further vulnerabilities, undercutting the stated intent of the bill.

We are in support of Bill C-36, but recommend that section 213 be removed.

I want to talk just a little bit about why we affirm the bill, and then I want to talk about why we're concerned about section 213.

First, why we support asymmetrical criminalization. Prostitution is a form of violence against women. Women should not be penalized for their own exploitation; rather, those perpetrating and benefiting from it should be criminalized. Prostitution is the sexualized subordination of women and hinders women's equality.

In crass economic terms, the sex industry operates as a market based on supply and demand. There is a demand for paid sex and exploiting the vulnerability of women and girls creates the supply for this market. Women and girls suffering from racial discrimination, the effects of residential schools and colonization, poverty, sexual assault as children, and other, and developmental issues such as fetal alcohol syndrome, are coerced into being sold to men for sex.

Pimps are shrewd businessmen. Make no mistake, they know exactly who to target and how to approach them. From what we know from supporting women at REED, and from studies done as well, the overwhelming majority of women are recruited into prostitution at below the age of 18. We see it all the time. Most often their entry into prostitution was preceded by repeated trauma.

According to research by Susan Nadon and others in the Journal of Interpersonal Violence and other academic studies, and the first-hand accounts of women, the majority of prostituted women report a history of childhood sexual abuse. As feminist writer, Andrea Dworkin, has said that “incest is boot camp” for prostitution. Childhood sexual abuse damages a child's sense of self, normalizes forced sexual contact, and teaches them that their bodies do not belong to them, thus reducing their threshold to seeing themselves as sellable.

Whether it's high track or low track, in a brothel or on the street, or perhaps in pornography that someone might view from the privacy of their own home, women in prostitution are seen as body parts. Their feelings and person do not matter.

The essence of Bill C-36 goes a long way to recovering the humanity and dignity of women, and of men. Frankly, I think the humanity and dignity of men is diminished when society condones their behaviour by not holding them accountable for violence against women. We need to expect more for men and more from men. I invite you to join me in this.

REED works throughout metro Vancouver, but certainly in the downtown east side it is not uncommon to see men in minivans on their way to work at 8 o'clock in the morning, sometimes with a child's car seat in the back, cruising the alleyways on the way to work, looking for a quick $5-to-$10 blow job from a severely sick and addicted woman. The power differential is horrific, but the sense of inequality and male entitlement is the paradigm of prostitution, even though it doesn't always present itself in such stark visible contrasts as this interaction does.

Research has focused a great deal on women in prostitution, who they are, what happens to them, and how they might recover from the trauma. All of these are critical questions.

But who are the men buying the bodies of women to have sex in or on, and what do we know about them, particularly their attitudes toward women? How do they feel about women? We have two decent sources of information: the handful of academic studies done on men who buy sex, but also what they themselves report on prostitution review forums online—direct first-hand data. For those of you who don't know, these are online forums where men discuss and review the women they have bought in prostitution.

Unfortunately, I am unable to tell you in this professional setting what most of them say, as it is degrading and violent, which is telling in itself. However, I will share with you one snippet that I read on a forum yesterday. Don't worry; it's okay to say on TV. One man gave a consumer report of a woman by saying this: “You can make her your sex toy or whatever you want, if you can crack her”.

Roughly 99% of research in the field has been done on prostitutes, and 1% has been done on johns, yet buying sex is so pervasive. In a rigorous empirical study done in Boston, in 2011, the research team reported that they had a shockingly difficult time locating men who really didn't buy women. The use of pornography, phone sex, lap dances and other services has become so widespread that the researchers were forced to loosen their definition in order to get a control group of a hundred people. They finally had to settle on the definition of non-sex buyers as the following: “men who have not been to a strip club more than two times in the past year, have not purchased a lap dance, have not used pornography more than one time in the last month, and have not purchased phone sex or prostituted women”.

What did they find out? Sex buyers were nearly eight times as likely as non-sex buyers to say they would rape a woman if they could get away with it.

This is also echoed in a solid 2009 study published by Eaves, in London, who found that the more accepting sex buyers were of prostitution, the more likely they were to also accept cultural myths about rape, such as, “women say no but they really mean yes”, and “a woman who dresses provocatively is being asked to be raped”.

Sex buyers, in the Boston study, used significantly more pornography than non-sex buyers, and three-quarters of them said they received their sex education from pornography. Over time, as a result of their prostitution use, sex buyers reported that their sexual preferences changed and they sought more sado-masochistic and degrading acts.

Sex buyers often prefer the licence that they feel they have with prostituted women. I quote: “You are the boss—the total boss”, said one john. “Even us normal guys, we want to say something and have it done, no questions asked. No, I don't feel like it. No, I'm tired. Unquestionable obedience. I mean, that's powerful. Power is like a drug.”

Sex buyers repeatedly commented that they liked the power relationship in prostitution. One of the women who we have supported at REED was told by her pimp to act like she spoke less English than she did so she would increase the power differential in the act, and that men wanted to buy women who were more vulnerable.

They're seldom lonely, and the majority are married or in a committed relationship. Many johns view their payment as giving them unfettered permission to degrade and assault women. One reported, “You can find a ho for any type of need—slapping, choking, aggressive sex—beyond what your girlfriend will do.” This is direct data from the johns themselves.

July 9th, 2014 / 1:10 p.m.
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Chris Atchison Research Associate, Department of Sociology, University of Victoria, As an Individual

Thank you.

Thank you for having me here today.

I would like to begin by stating that I am not here as an advocate for any individual group, organization, or moral position on the sex industry. I believe the sex industry is incredibly complex, and that in order to understand it and develop outreach programs and policy to address the very real issues faced by some people who are in it, we must listen to the people directly involved, and we must pay attention to the wealth of rigorous empirical evidence from Canada and internationally.

It is this empirical evidence that I wish to focus my presentation on today.

I would also like to be clear from the start that I study and do research with adults who are involved in the purchase of sexual services. I do not do research with or study individuals involved in trafficking or with individuals who are involved with child sexual exploitation. I will reserve my comments for the study of adult consensual sexual services today.

I have been researching adults who purchase sexual services, or clients, and working in a supportive capacity with sex worker researchers and outreach organizations since 1995. During this time, I have been a principal investigator on three major studies of clients, two of which are the largest and most comprehensive investigations of people who purchase sexual services ever conducted anywhere.

I have also been a co-investigator on three additional studies of health, safety of off-street sex industry, and provided research, consult, or advice on six other sex industry projects.

Today I want to draw upon the results of my almost 20 years of research on adults who purchase sexual services.

I would like to address some corporate propositions or provisions of Bill C-36, the protection of communities and exploited persons act, in the process.

I would like to begin by addressing the question of whether prostitution is inherently exploitative.

Certainly, as we have seen, there are particular individuals and situations that exhibit cruel and unjust exploitative behaviours and conditions. We cannot deny that. But my research indicates that these particular individuals and situations exist in a very complex relationship within the industry, that by and large they are a smaller portion of the industry—an insidious portion, but a smaller portion. They do not represent the majority.

My research indicates that many sex workers work independently and, by extension, the clients I have spoken to maintain that they always negotiate the exchange of services for money directly with sex workers. A small percentage negotiate services through a third party.

The majority of the clients that I have surveyed provide no indication that they ever threaten, force, coerce, deceive, or abuse a position of trust or power and authority over a sex worker. This claim is supported by the research that my colleagues and my sister project, the understanding sex work project, have done.

Having said this, it is incredibly important to acknowledge that a minority of clients I have spoken to directly, and surveyed over the past 20 years, clearly exhibit exploitative behaviours, attitudes, and beliefs. Some of these include pressuring sex workers into doing something sexually that they were not prepared to do, refusing to pay for services, insulting or putting down a sex worker, making threatening gestures, threatening to destroy sex workers' property, verbally threatening or assaulting and physically restraining a sex worker. These things do happen. These things must be stopped.

Again, I emphasize that this is a minority of individuals I have talked to, and I have talked to almost 3,000 individuals who have purchased sexual services over the past 18 years.

On a second point, the assumption that all relations that occur between sex workers and people who purchase sexual services are exploitative because the balance of power is asymmetrical favouring the client, this is not supported by the accounts of clients I've surveyed. Many of the participants in my most recent study indicated that they either felt the service provider they engaged with had more control or power, or that the control or power was relatively equally distributed. A small portion identified that they had more power. Again, these findings are supported by results from my sister project that looked directly at sex workers and spoke directly to sex workers.

On the question of violence in the sex industry, in all of my studies, I've sought to understand issues and instances of violence and victimization that take place when sexual services are being sold and purchased. I think that has to be the focus of a lot of research. We need to understand it, and I have tried to understand it for the past 18 years.

The results of my two most recent large-scale investigations, with large samples of clients, have produced consistent findings when it comes to the level of self-reported violence and aggression that they report committing against sex workers. The majority of interactions that clients have with sex workers are peaceful. Having said this, again it is important to point out that a small portion of clients report having committed violent offences, as defined by the Criminal Code, against sex workers. This portion of individuals who are involved in the purchase of sex are clearly a problem.

Non-violent forms of aggression—verbal assault, conflicts that emerge from misunderstandings, lack of communication, hurried communication—appear to be far more commonplace than violent ones. Again, an interesting finding that I've had over the years is that violence and victimization are not asymmetrical. Many of the clients I've spoke to over the years have also experienced violent and non-violent victimization themselves, either at the hands of a sex worker or at the hands of an industry, owner, manager, madam, or pimp.

My more sophisticated analyses of these findings around violence reveal that the actual occurrences of violence and victimization in the sex trade vary significantly across different contexts, specifically different venues where commercial sexual transactions take place.

The street-based portion of the sex industry seems to be a context that holds the most potential for violent interactions to occur, and where concerns around safety for both sex workers and clients are the greatest. Part of the dangers involved in the street-based industry are a result of the isolated nature of the locations they are forced to move to because of their constant fear of arrest, concerns about community safety, the absence of clear and commonly understood behavioural norms and regulations, and the increased likelihood that either the worker or the client will be under the influence of drugs and alcohol. These same patterns do not appear with the same regularity in off-street settings.

Criminalizing all buyers of sexual services will make it not only result in innocent people being marked for life with the label of criminal, but it will make it significantly more difficult to properly prevent and address actual acts of violence that do occur in the sex industry under these conditions. When it comes to wanting those who engage in prostitution to be encouraged to report acts of violence and victimization, we would all agree, I think. That's paramount. If one of the aims of the proposed legislation is to encourage this reporting, then we need to make sure we do not create laws that actually discourage it from happening. Research that I have done indicates the real potential and value of clients in detecting and reporting violence and other abuses that they witness.

I am puzzled as to why we would criminalize people who are frequently in the best position to report instances of violence and victimization that they witness. Moreover, if when purchasing sex a person is engaged in a criminal activity, we have found that they are much less likely to report, or less willing to report, instances of violence. That's a consistent finding throughout all of my research.

On the assertion that demand for prostitution needs to be curbed and attitudes and behaviours of sex buyers need to be changed, the belief that demand is solely responsible for the existence of the sex industry ignores the fact that in many cases supply produces demand. It's hypocritical and discriminatory, in a society where sex and sexuality are used liberally to sell all sorts of goods and services, to criminalize the purchase of direct contact sexual services, while at the same time sanctioning the sale of such services. It's highly unlikely that such a discriminatory law would stand up to the inevitable and costly challenges under subsection 15(1) of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

Yet another assumption underlying the bill appears to be that demand can be curbed and attitudes and behaviours can be changed simply by criminalizing the purchase of sexual services, arresting and incarcerating and fining the people who engage in such behaviour. The results of my research indicate that such approaches simply result in displacing the behaviour to hidden and potentially more dangerous locales. Furthermore, labelling as criminal people who pay for sexual services, while at the same time legalizing the actions of people who sell such services, will create a situation that some have referred to as “the perfect crime”. People purchasing sexual services become the legitimate targets of robbery, fraud, theft, blackmail, and assault, something that we have seen sex workers experience for the past 30 years.

Finally, the issue of advertising is a very important one. This bill proposes that advertising and communications be criminalized. The findings from my research reveal that open and unrestricted exchange of information between sex workers and clients has significant implications for clients and subsequent interactions they have with sex workers. Under the proposed law, I find it hard to see how conflicts over misunderstandings or disagreements about terms of service, which are the things that result in violent and non-violent victimization, would be curbed in any way, shape, or form. Nor do I feel that under this proposed legislation we would be able to access them.

The proposal also has potentially negative implications for outreach, support services, as well as social and health research. With access to spaces where open and honest communication between sex workers and buyers is cut off, our ability to identify unsafe situations or conditions is compromised, and our ability to reach out to people is severely limited.

I'd just like to conclude by saying I believe a way forward is to take a strong look at this bill. I believe that we need to reassess the sections that criminalize the purchase of services and the advertisements. I believe that we should treat the sex industry as any other industry and regulate it through existing protocol. I recommend, as others have internationally, that regulatory harm reduction and health promotion policies be developed and implemented on the basis of the direct and active contribution of people who are actually involved in the sex industry, as well as drawing upon empirical evidence provided by the growing body of ethically and methodologically sound Canadian research that's been done in this area. I propose that the money that would have been used to detect and prosecute clients as a class be used to fund combatting the real violence and victimization in targeting the clients who do commit acts of violence and victimization.

July 9th, 2014 / 1:05 p.m.
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Bridget Perrier Co-Founding Member, Sextrade101

Aanii. First I'd like to acknowledge my standing here on the unceded traditional territory of the Algonquin First Nation.

I represent Sextrade101 and the many first nations women and girls who are enslaved in prostitution or trafficked.

My name is Wasayakwe. My English name is Bridget Perrier. I was born in Thunder Bay, Ontario and placed up for adoption. I was adopted by a good family who tried to raise me the best way possible, but as I got older the effects of colonialism, intergenerational trauma, and child sexual abuse made me a perfect candidate for prostitution.

I was lured and debased into prostitution at the age of 12 from a child welfare-run group home. I remained enslaved for 10 years in prostitution. I was sold to men who felt privileged to steal my innocence and invade my body. I was paraded like cattle in front of men who were able to purchase me, and the acts that I did were something no little girl should ever have to endure here in Canada, the land of the free.

Because of the men, I cannot have a child normally, because of trauma towards my cervix. Also, still to this day I have nightmares, and sometimes I sleep with the lights on. My trauma is deep, and I sometimes feel as though I'm frozen—or even worse, I feel damaged and not worthy.

I was traded in legal establishments, street corners, and strip clubs. I even had a few trips across the Great Lakes servicing shipmen at the age of 13. The scariest thing that happened to me was being held captive for a period of 43 hours and raped and tortured repeatedly at 14 years of age by a sexual predator who preyed on exploited girls.

My exploiters made a lot of money and tried to break me, but I fought for my life. My first pimp was a woman who owned a legal brothel, where I was groomed to say that I was her daughter's friend, if the police ever asked. My second pimp was introduced to me when I was in Toronto. I had to prostitute for money. He was supposed to be a bodyguard, but that turned out to be one big lie.

Both are out there still, doing the same thing to more little girls somewhere here in Canada.

I was able to exit prostitution and rebuild my life, and with that my education became a tool. I was recognized for my tenacity and my strength and have been able now to be an asset to my community and to my people. I am a mother, activist, and warrior woman, and now my experience may be sacrificial at times, but I am doing it for Canada's first nations women and girls who are being bought sold and are disappearing or murdered.

We must look at who is doing this. It's the men.

I have a letter, because my 19-year-old daughter's mom was murdered by Robert Pickton, and she asked me to read this to you.

Dear Standing Committee, My name is Angel Wolfe. My birth mom's name is Brenda Wolfe. My mom was murdered by Robert Pickton. Her murder was one of the first six that he was charged with. I was six years old when she was murdered and nine years old when her jaw bone was found in a pig trough. I am one of the 98 orphans who were left behind because of that monster. I do blame the Vancouver Police Department and the RCMP. I believe that Bill C-36 will save vulnerable women like my mom. I'm sickened that my mom's death has been used to legalize such indignity and sadness. I'm also sickened by the term “the Pickton bill”. It's insulting and a slap in the face to the 98 orphans, and the organizations and the pro-lobby movement should be really ashamed for speaking on behalf of the families who lost their loved ones. I blame prostitution and addiction for my mother's death, and on behalf of the 98 orphans, we do not want our mothers' deaths to be the reason prostitution is legitimized.

I will make it my mission in life to carry her story and educate people about addictions, prostitution and the murdered and the missing. Sincerely, Angel Wolfe

Bill C-36 will protect my daughters and the other young girls from predator johns who have the nerve to solicit in public. Just last week, my 15-year old niece was propositioned right outside my door.

If prostitution were such a healthy path, then why are the johns not telling their wives, girlfriends, and families that they use or have used sexual services from prostitutes?

Sextrade101 believes that prostitution is not a choice, but that it's lack of choice that keeps women and girls enslaved. We believe everyone should be shown a viable way out of the sex trade and not be encouraged to stay in it. We believe in helping people understand the full price of life in prostitution before they become involved and in helping women get out alive with their minds, bodies, and lives intact. We have been collectively afraid, raped, beaten, sold, discarded. Most of us were also children who were forgotten, neglected, abused, used, led astray, abandoned, and not protected.

Sextrade101 members and advocates are current and former prostituted women. We have a huge concern with the criminalization of prostituted women and girls. We have seen that diversion programs for prostituted women are not the only solution for everyone. There needs to be an understanding that supports must be there when exiting. Forcing support on women who are not ready to exit can set them up for failure.

Some 85% of Sextrade101 advocates and members have experienced pimp violence. This is pretty far from the picture painted by the Supreme Court of Canada, that pimps are nice guys,These pimps and johns are the problem. They're the ones who abuse and in some cases kill.

I supported my daughter throughout the missing women inquiry, and the outcome of it was this: our mothers, sisters, and daughters are not born to be used and sold for men's sexual needs. We are not commodities. Our women are sacred. They are valued and loved, and as life givers and nurturers, we are equal. Let's not forget equality in this bill.

I applaud Minister MacKay and MP Ms. Joy Smith in recognizing the inherent dangers and abuses for those who are prostituted. This is a victory for survivors and those who are stuck in the vicious cycle of indignity and pain.

As a sex trade survivor, I thank you so much for giving me the honour of speaking on behalf of the survivors of Sextrade101 and all the survivors across Canada, whether they are still in or have exited.

Chi-miigwetch.

July 9th, 2014 / 1:05 p.m.
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Conservative

The Chair Conservative Mike Wallace

I'm going to call this meeting to order.

This is the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights. We're at meeting 39, and this meeting is being televised.

Our order of reference of Monday, June 16, 2014, is the examination of Bill C-36, An Act to amend the Criminal Code in response to the Supreme Court of Canada decision in Attorney General of Canada v. Bedford and to make consequential amendments to other Acts.

In this panel we have from Sextrade101, Mrs. Perrier, a co-founding member. We have Professor Atchinson—I think I can call you professor—from the department of sociology at the University of Victoria. And by video conference we have three people: Michelle Miller from Resist Exploitation, Embrace Dignity, from British Columbia; Ms. Lang, as an individual, also from British Columbia; and Madam Dussault, a member from Prostitutes Involved, Empowered, Cogent—Edmonton.

Each group gets approximately 10 minutes.

First to start is Madam Perrier.

The time is yours.

July 9th, 2014 / 11:45 a.m.
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Det Thai Truong

First of all, this topic, as the chair and the committee know, is a hot topic. There are so many different perspectives. Again, when I speak, it's speaking directly from the voices that are trapped. From my view, when I talk about the human trafficking crime, you can't disassociate prostitution from human trafficking. Every single case of our human trafficking cases has been the commercial sexual exploitation of women and girls except one. One was similar, but involved labour. This is York Regional Police. With York Regional Police, amongst all the police services, with respect to human trafficking cases, we are definitely one of the most aggressive police services out there.

With Bill C-36, in the previous laws that were struck down, the living on the avails of prostitution was the tool that we utilized. It's a very important tool because it criminalized everybody around the victim. With our victims, when we come in contact with a human trafficking victim, especially in the hotel rooms, you can see—and I'll give you a real example—a black eye and her eye swollen. I can come in contact with her, I know she is working in the sex trade, and I can say, I'm a police officer. This is who I am. Listen, I want to help you. Let's talk about some strategies, what we can do to help you. I'm not here to criminalize you. I'm concerned about your well-being. I'm concerned about your eye.

July 9th, 2014 / 11:45 a.m.
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NDP

Françoise Boivin NDP Gatineau, QC

Thank you so much for your testimony. Thank you for the job that you do every day. On that point, I'm pretty sure it's unanimous that nobody wants to see human trafficking happening or exploitation of women or girls or boys or men, or anybody, any human being.

I'm trying to understand your job as it is right now. I don't know if you heard my questions to your chief, but I'm trying to see what you see in Bill C-36 that gives you tools that will make your job easier. Like you said, people might disguise themselves as bodyguards. I'm not sure that by the passing of Bill C-36 suddenly your job will become easier.

What do you see that I don't necessarily see in Bill C-36—and maybe pinpoint it to me—that is not yet there? In view of the sections in the Criminal Code on human trafficking that are already there, and those on sexual exploitation and dealing with sexual exploitation against minors, and so on, that are already there, what tools do you see in Bill C-36 that you don't have already?

July 9th, 2014 / 11:35 a.m.
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Detective Thai Truong Drugs and Vice, York Regional Police

Thank you, sir.

I want to say thank you to Mr. Chair and the committee for letting me speak today. I've been a police officer for 13 years. The last nine years I've been attached to organized crime. Within the last six years, I have been tasked with being a supervisor in the vice unit. The primary mandate of our unit is the sexual exploitation of women and girls, and essentially all human trafficking cases in York region.

The sexual exploitation of Canadians is happening each and every day. Their backgrounds vary. Some are more vulnerable than others, but I've seen victims from all walks of life. One common characteristic is the age at which they begin selling their bodies. In two recent operations by York Regional Police, we found that the average age of entry into prostitution was less than 15 years old.

Once under the control of a pimp, it's nearly impossible for a victim to walk away. Pimps are abusive. They are manipulative. They control with violence, sometimes drugs, and the harshest forms of coercion. They spin a web of lies around their victims, to the point where these girls cease to believe they have anyone to rely on or run to. Families, friends, law enforcement, and all those looking to give a helping hand become an enemy who cannot be trusted or understand their oppression. The psychological trap is complete and inescapable.

Participation in the world of prostitution is very rarely a choice. It is a desperate act by individuals who have been victimized by pimps, addiction, or mental illness, and sometimes a potent combination of all three.

I am not talking about women who are independent sex workers and claim that it is their profession. These are not the women I am talking about. I'm not talking about those survivors who have been fortunate enough to exit the sex trade. I'm talking about the women and girls who don't have a voice, the ones who are not public and not speaking out. They are the ones our police services try to find, who are in total isolation and truly need help.

If we are lucky enough to find these women and girls, they typically deny that they need help, even though obvious bruises, injuries, and wounds are seen. I see this on a daily basis. These are the ones I am talking about. I am not talking about any of the other perspectives and views. I'm talking about the victims we find every single day who don't fit into these categories. These are the girls I'm talking about. These are the ones we're mandated to rescue.

I'll give you a typical example of a human trafficking victim. When you see a human trafficking victim, first of all, if you're lucky enough to identify that this is a human trafficking victim, they are not going to say, “please help me”. They are not going to say, “come rescue me”. In normal criminal offences—I'll use that term loosely—if I'm a victim, say of a robbery, a gun is to my head, I'm working at a gas station, and somebody robs me, I'm going to call the police when they leave. The gun is to my head, “Don't call the police, or you're going to be killed”. I'm going to be terrified, generally speaking, but I'm going to call the police. I need help and I need to report this.

Human trafficking victims will not call the police. As a matter of fact, we will respond and they will deny it. These are the girls I'm talking about, the ones who are completely isolated and trapped.

There is no question that this is a complex topic. There are many ideas on what to include in Canada's new laws. Some argue for complete legalization of prostitution. They say it's the world's oldest profession and we shouldn't waste time trying to control it.

I say that a society that allows the purchase or sale of the human body is a broken one. The ripple effect this could have on the future of our girls, boys, and society is unimaginable.

Others say that by raising awareness about prostitution and its harms, providing exit strategies for prostitutes, criminalizing the purchase of sex but decriminalizing its sale, prostitutes will voluntarily walk away from their pimps if they are given options. That is not going to work on the women and the girls we are looking for.

Many of these women who entered or were recruited into prostitution due to addiction, abuse, and violence will not overcome this type of victimization. Pimps won't go away, and therefore choosing to leave is not an option. I am not talking about the victims that you have heard about, the pro-legalization, the independent sex workers. I'm not talking about them. I'm talking about the ones who you haven't heard from, the ones who we deal with, and the ones who need our help but do not tell us. They are trapped.

The women trapped in lives of sexual exploitation need many things from us. They need exit programs. They need counsellors, professional help, and they need ongoing empathy, support and respect, much like what this bill is proposing. But before any of that, they need rescue. Best intentions won't heal the bruises left by pimps. We need to separate prostitutes from their abusers and end their isolation. The only way we can do that is if police have the power to intervene. Again, I'm talking about the victims who don't have a voice, the ones who are trapped.

In the past year I've spoken to many community groups about this very issue. There's always a concerned or helpless parent who approaches me about their daughter or a family member. At the end of each conversation they always ask me what tools I need to rescue these girls. The simple answer for me is this. I need time. I need the legal tool and the legal right to take a young woman away from her pimp and enable a serious conversation with that vulnerable young woman—not arrest her, not charge her or put her in jail. But under Bill C-36 that's going to be challenging for me to do. Some of the tools are challenging. Pimps will mask themselves as personal bodyguards and continue to exploit women and girls right in front of police officers.

For the sake of the people trapped in this life, I'm asking this committee to consider this when addressing Bill C-36. Again, I am talking about the victims who don't have a voice and have yet to be heard.

There are some very good things with respect to this bill. There are some things I'm asking the committee to consider. I'm here on behalf of the chief and our organization. I'm also here on the front line, telling you exactly what we deal with on a day-to-day basis and subject to any questions.

July 9th, 2014 / 11:30 a.m.
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Conservative

The Chair Conservative Mike Wallace

Thank you very much.

Thank you to our witnesses today for their first meeting this morning on this discussion of Bill C-36. I want to thank you for taking the time and providing your views.

We'll be going in camera for a half-hour period.

To our friends from the Adult Entertainment Association, thank you for the invitation, but I don't think you'll have much of a crowd tonight, from this table anyway. But you never know.

With that, we will suspend while we go in camera.

Thank you for joining us.

[Pursuant to a motion passed by the committee, the following proceedings are now public]

July 9th, 2014 / 11:30 a.m.
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Conservative

Bob Dechert Conservative Mississauga—Erindale, ON

I'm trying to make the case so that people understand, people in the larger audience understand, Ms. Lebovitch, that my interpretation, my reading of Chief Justice McLachlin's decision is that she stated what your concerns were. The government read those concerns and addressed them in Bill C-36.

July 9th, 2014 / 11:30 a.m.
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Conservative

Bob Dechert Conservative Mississauga—Erindale, ON

I'm simply trying to point out that I think those were addressed by Bill C-36. The things that Chief Justice McLachlin said you were concerned about are specifically addressed.

July 9th, 2014 / 11:30 a.m.
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Conservative

Bob Dechert Conservative Mississauga—Erindale, ON

She said that you had worked in the past with an escort agency, as an employee of an escort agency. You had worked on the street and you had worked in your own private indoor location.

In paragraph 12 she says, “Presently, Ms. Lebovitch primarily works independently out of her home". She went on to say that one of your fears is that you might be charged with being found in a common bawdy house under the laws that were struck down and therefore might actually lose your home. Bill C-36 provides an exception for you. You don't have a concern about losing your home.

She then went on to say that you were concerned your partner might be charged with living off the avails of prostitution and obviously suffer criminal consequences. Bill C-36 allows specifically an exemption for partners and legitimate live-in arrangements, so that concern is dealt with.

Finally, she said that you were concerned that if you went out on the street, it would be inherently much more dangerous. But if you could carry on the business indoors from your own private location, where you could properly screen your clients, then you would be safer. Bill C-36, to that extent, I think—

July 9th, 2014 / 11:20 a.m.
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NDP

Ève Péclet NDP La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all the witnesses for their remarks. I am going to proceed quickly, because, as you know, we don't have much time.

My first question is for Ms. Ekberg.

I think it's important to point out that the Nordic model should actually be referred to as the Swedish model. Finland, Denmark and a number of other countries in northern Europe haven't adopted the exact same model as Sweden.

Sweden opted for a model that criminalizes the individual procuring the sexual services. It's important to keep in mind, however, that, along with the legislative component, Sweden also adopted an array of very significant social measures. This type of model is doomed to fail if authorities lack the resources needed to help victims get out of their situations, as claimed.

I'd like you to comment on two things. First, we're considering a bill that deviates from the so-called Nordic model because it still criminalizes women. That's what you talked about in your opening statement. Second, the government isn't introducing any social measures to complement the bill, as Sweden did when it passed its legislation in 1999.

Can all the figures being discussed here really be applied to the context of Bill C-36? I have my doubts.

July 9th, 2014 / 11:15 a.m.
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Conservative

Robert Goguen Conservative Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all the witnesses for your testimony. It's certainly very diverse and it will be helpful in our deliberations.

Of course, Mrs. Grant, as the other members said, certainly the best of luck in rejoining your beloved daughter.

I want to address my questions to Mrs. Ekberg. Your testimony has been long awaited, as the author of the Nordic model, of course. As you know, Bill C-36 has taken a number of the elements from the Nordic model, particularly targeting the pimps and the johns in the criminalization.

I trust that as the author of this model you've followed its results on the prostitution industry afterwards in Sweden?

July 9th, 2014 / 11:10 a.m.
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Executive Director, Sex Professionals of Canada

Amy Lebovitch

He is talking about how Bill C-36 will impact sex workers' lives. I sort of mentioned in my talk that for those working on the street, when you target our clients it puts us in danger. We see that in Vancouver and we see that where it has been done. It's a way of pushing us further away from our communities, away from the services that we need.

As I mentioned, clients are paranoid of the police and will go into areas that are out of the way, and that's where we have to go, right?

For indoor workers...very concerned about the advertising. We see in the U.S. that sites are closing down. We're not able to advertise. Then again, for indoors, our clients are targeted.

In Sweden we see that they get information on the clients by going to areas where sex workers are working out of their homes or hotels, and they watch those hotels to see when clients are coming. So we are afraid of that.

July 9th, 2014 / 11:10 a.m.
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NDP

Pierre Jacob NDP Brome—Missisquoi, QC

Very well.

You mentioned the New Zealand model. What direct repercussions will Bill C-36 have on your day-to-day life?

July 9th, 2014 / 11:05 a.m.
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NDP

Pierre Jacob NDP Brome—Missisquoi, QC

Thank you, Mr. Jolliffe.

My next question is for Ms. Scott and Ms. Lebovitch.

What I gather from your remarks is that Bill C-36 is very flawed, because it doesn't satisfy the criteria set out by the Supreme Court in Bedford and that it won't make women any safer.

My question is this. How relevant would affordable housing and poverty reduction measures be in terms of helping sex workers get out of prostitution?

July 9th, 2014 / 11 a.m.
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Conservative

Bob Dechert Conservative Mississauga—Erindale, ON

I understand. So you're not really concerned that Bill C-36 will affect your members. You said earlier that the laws that were struck down under Bedford didn't affect you in any way.

July 9th, 2014 / 10:55 a.m.
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Conservative

Bob Dechert Conservative Mississauga—Erindale, ON

Very good. Welcome to you all.

As I understand it, Mr. Lambrinos, the concern of the Adult Entertainment Industry Association is the definition of sexual services in Bill C-36. You're concerned that the types of activities that go on in your members' clubs might fall under that definition. Is that correct? Is that your concern?

July 9th, 2014 / 10:50 a.m.
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Liberal

Sean Casey Liberal Charlottetown, PE

Thank you.

You referenced the absence in the preamble of any reference to the uniquely vulnerable position in which first nations find themselves. I'd be interested to hear a little more from you on that.

If there was reference to that in the preamble, how do you expect that might change the effect of Bill C-36 and how it is interpreted and applied by the courts?

July 9th, 2014 / 10:50 a.m.
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Liberal

Sean Casey Liberal Charlottetown, PE

Do you have an opinion as to the constitutionality of the retention of the public communication provisions in Bill C-36?

July 9th, 2014 / 10:50 a.m.
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Chief of Police, Office of the Chief Police, York Regional Police

Chief Eric Jolliffe

It's a summary conviction offence, as written in Bill C-36.

July 9th, 2014 / 10:45 a.m.
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Liberal

Sean Casey Liberal Charlottetown, PE

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Chief Jolliffe, I want to follow up on a couple of things that you were asked already and a couple of things that you've said.

One thing you said is that your department has not availed itself of the power you have under section 213 to charge any sex workers in the last five years. But when you were asked by Mr. Wilks about what would happen if, on December 20, Bill C-36 wasn't passed, you said you would be concerned that you would lose the communicating piece. You said that the communicating piece is one that you don't use, but you're concerned about losing it.

Can you explain that to me?

July 9th, 2014 / 10:40 a.m.
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Conservative

David Wilks Conservative Kootenay—Columbia, BC

I wonder if we could now change focus. There are some we have heard witness from who have asked, “Why don't we just let the laws fall on December 20?“ and then we'll move forward from there. Could you give us an understanding from a police perspective of the laws falling on December 20 of this year versus Bill C-36? From the perspective of the police, if the laws fall, what can or cannot the police do versus with Bill C-36?

July 9th, 2014 / 10:30 a.m.
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Chief of Police, Office of the Chief Police, York Regional Police

Chief Eric Jolliffe

Well, let me say that we always are looking for tools to help suss out those who have been victimized. Any opportunity the government can provide to law enforcement to be able to do our job, try to do our job easier, under huge financial constraints sometimes for us to do our business....

Some additional things here that this Bill C-36 gives us include the commodification of sexual activity, which goes after johns and—

July 9th, 2014 / 10:30 a.m.
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NDP

Françoise Boivin NDP Gatineau, QC

Excellent.

What I'm interested to know from you is, with the Criminal Code as it is right now versus Bill C-36 as the government wants it, what would be different? What exact new clause from Bill C-36 will make it so that you can do your work better maybe or that you couldn't do prior? You couldn't criminalize clients before? You couldn't go after human trafficking before? What are we to understand exactly from your testimony?

July 9th, 2014 / 10:15 a.m.
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Gunilla Ekberg Lawyer, University of Glasgow School of Law, As an Individual

Good morning to you, and good afternoon from Copenhagen.

I am, in fact, not a professor of law yet. I am a Canadian lawyer and I've worked on prostitution and human trafficking issues since the late 1980s in a number of countries.

First, I would like to thank the committee for the invitation to present at this hearing, and especially for all the effort you put in to allowing me to participate via video link from Copenhagen.

What I will do today is comment on certain aspects of Bill C-36. That doesn't mean that I fully endorse, or not, other aspects of the bill that I'm not mentioning.

As the committee may be aware, I was a special adviser to the Swedish government for six years and I was charged with the development and implementation of legal and policy matters and intervention in relation to prostitution and human trafficking, on what is often called “the Swedish approach”.

The Swedish approach is firmly steeped in principles of gender equality, human rights, etc., and has also inspired other countries, as you well know, in Scandinavia, in the European Union and beyond, where communities are working to shift the culture of the idea that prostitution is inevitable toward the understanding that prostitution is something through which individuals in a society should not have to be exploited.

Please ask questions about the Swedish approach during question time. I would be happy to discuss some of the issues that were raised earlier during this meeting.

Let me go directly to Bill C-36. I want to first comment on the preamble.

First of all, I will say I'm happy to see that the government is taking action, for the first time in Canadian legal history, to comprehensively address the root cause of prostitution: those who create the demand, those prostitution buyers, those men who are involved as purchasers. I'm also happy that they have intended to target those who profit financially and materially from the exploitation of mainly women in prostitution.

To ensure effective application of any comprehensive legal framework that aims to prevent and tackle prostitution, it is essential, as we did very clearly in Sweden, to state which values and principles such laws are informed by and rest upon, as the government has attempted to do, at least partly, in the preamble of the bill. What is not visible in this preamble is that prostitution is a gender-specific violation. The majority of the victims are female and the majority of the perpetrators—buyers, pimps and traffickers—are men. We also know that in Canada aboriginal women and girls are highly represented in both indoor and street prostitution. This needs to be reflected.

I recommend that the preamble also include a paragraph that recognizes the international human rights obligations that Canada has under the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination against Women, for example, and also under article 9.5 of the Palermo protocol, which obligates countries to criminalize or discourage the demand for prostitution purposes.

Communication for the purpose to provide a sexual service troubles me deeply, as it does, I think, everyone who is responding to the call to comment on this bill. It is most troubling for me to note that the government decided, despite plenty of evidence provided by survivors of prostitution and human trafficking, academic and community researchers, women's anti-violence organizations, law enforcement, today's witnesses, and some provinces, as to the multiple detrimental effects of criminal or administrative sanctions on those who are exploited in prostitution. Not only are they discriminatory but they are contrary to the human rights obligations that Canada has signed on to.

I believe that instead of facing criminal charges and potential involvement in the criminal justice system, like any other victim of a crime, victims in prostitution should be accorded all the rights and protection available through federal and provincial victim bills of rights, and they should be encompassed and amended in Bill C-36.

I want to underline that in no legal system, no matter what measures are taken, should those who are involved in prostitution be apprehended, fined, prosecuted, and jailed for something that is a crime committed against them, and not by them. So I urge the government to reconsider and remove this offence from Bill C-36.

If the government still wants to ensure that prostitution doesn't exist in public places and close to children, should that be an important aim, the best way to do that is not targeting the victim but targeting those who create the demand for men who buy sexual services. We know that from Sweden. It is an effective way of discouraging men from taking part in purchasing sexual services in the first place. I'm encouraged to see that the government has decided to put into place legislation or an offence that criminalizes the buyers.

I do have some comments on this particular offence. I will give some and the rest will come in writing.

First of all, I want to contradict studies that are going to be presented and have been presented to the committee, which underline that men who purchase women and men for prostitution purposes are benign and have a real interest in the victim's safety and protection. We know very well from the large body of academic and community-based research, and also from direct comments made by men who purchase women on websites that are located in Canada....

In the case of my research I had looked closely at the big websites in the Netherlands, called hookers.nl, where men post the most horrific comments about the women they purchase. I've also been involved in interviewing buyers in Lebanon, where we also can see that—just as in all of the other countries where men have purchased sexual services—they talk about the benefits derived from controlling women in prostitution.

To increase applicability, you need to ensure that attempts are criminalized. Otherwise, you will not be able to intervene until a violation has been committed. You need to increase the scale of the crimes, which is in the very low level, to reflect the seriousness of the crime. A breach of those provisions should mean a criminal record that cannot be rescinded even if they participate in so-called john school. As well, as has been done in Norway, the provision should be extended extraterritorially so that the Canadian resident who attempts to purchase a sexual service outside of Canada can be prosecuted in the country.

Key to an effective policy strategy to prevent prostitution offences is to ensure that individuals, groups, or legal persons are not able to recruit, harbour, or materially benefit from the prostitution of somebody else. It was recognized very early in the international community that there is a close link between the existence of legal brothels and other legal or illegal prostitution-related activities in a country, and the attraction for pimps and traffickers to bring women to those markets, and also for the men who purchase to actually show up in those markets. This has been soundly confirmed, both in the practical applications of 16 years of work that we've done in Sweden, but also through academic research, and importantly, evaluation and court cases that have been taking place recently in Germany and Netherlands, where they conclude that their system is attractive to those who facilitate and sell women for prostitution purposes. So instead of repealing the prostitution...[Inaudible--Editor]...as the Supreme Court proposed, they need to be reformed, strengthened, etc.

I also think that it's interesting to testify at the same time as the Adult Entertainment Association, because one aspect of the Canadian legal framework that is not federal, but is closely related in practice and effects to the actions that we are discussing today, is the municipal licensing system of strip clubs, body-rub parlours, escort services, etc. The existence of such venues, I argue, has a direct impact on the scale and extent of prostitution-related activities and human trafficking into and within Canada, and of course, the creation of victims both in Canada and in other countries.

We also know that the opposite is true. If you enforce vigorously criminal provisions against the whole chain of perpetrators—buyers, pimps, and traffickers—we also see that traffickers and pimps will not establish themselves in the country or in that particular community. That has also been recognized by those countries in Europe that have a legal or decriminalized system.

I am not going to say anything about the advertisement provision right now, although I generally approve of it. But there are problems of jurisdictional aspects that I will leave. These are discussed in my paper.

When I testified to another committee in the Canadian Parliament in 2007, I suggested that the government should appoint an independent national rapporteur on trafficking in human beings who would have the mandate to investigate, monitor, and analyze the state and scale of prostitution and trafficking, but also all measures—legal and policy—to see whether they are consistent with the charter and with international human rights.

In conclusion, in a democratic society in which we strive for gender equality and equal treatment of everyone, no matter their background, we must include the right to live free from violence and exploitation, including exploitation through prostitution, no matter where that exploitation takes place, whether it is indoors, on streets, or wherever.

I urge the committee and in turn the government to resist the dramatic promotion of and the resulting normalization of arguments about prostitution as individual choice or legitimate and empowering work, in the Canadian public debate put forward by what is called in international human rights theory the “pro-violation constituency”, meaning organizations, individuals, etc., who, when their interests are threatened, lobby for and consent to policies associated with human rights and norms violations.

In the case of prostitution in Canada, such pro-violation constituencies are often or may be composed of individuals, groups, and organizations that directly or indirectly aim either to increase their exploitative access to those victims—and in the case of Canada and other countries, that is usually groups of men who want to have better access to women and young men through prostitution—in order to continue the exploitation. We have those groups in Canada. We have evidence that this is exactly what they're doing.

The other aspect and the other pro-violation constituency is of course those who derive a financial or material benefit from the exploitation of those who are drawn into prostitution, as is indicated, for example, in the Netherlands—the business associations that want to expand their empires and make more profits.

I think it is long overdue in Canada that we identify prostitution and human trafficking as intimately linked and understand them as serious forms of violence and systemic human rights violations.

It's time to act responsibly, ethically, and decisively by criminalizing those who exploit, those who benefit, and ensuring that those who are victims and exploited in the prostitution industry do not suffer any criminal or administrative penances.

Thank you.

July 9th, 2014 / 10:05 a.m.
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Chief Eric Jolliffe Chief of Police, Office of the Chief Police, York Regional Police

Thank you.

Let me begin by thanking each of you, members of the standing committee, for having us appear today regarding Bill C-36, the protection of communities and exploited persons act.

We appreciate the government's efforts to abolish prostitution and prostitution-related activities while taking a victim-focused approach. I am joined today by a detective from our vice team who is considered one of the foremost experts in the extraction of young women and children who are sexually exploited and trafficked for the purposes of prostitution. For the past six years he has been dedicated to investigating domestic human trafficking. Due to the nature of his duties as an investigator, he will appear in camera today. If asked, his experience and observations will help explain what happens in the field from an investigator's perspective.

As chief of York Regional Police, an organization that polices a diverse community of over 1.1 million people, I am proud to say that we have been recognized as a leader in combatting and preventing domestic human trafficking from occurring, bringing perpetrators to justice, and protecting and extracting sexually exploited women, children, and marginalized individuals from all walks of life. Over the past four years York Regional Police has rescued over 100 victims trafficked and involved in prostitution, who are mostly found to be under 21 years of age. More recently, our vice team has laid 12 counts of human trafficking and over 80 pimping-related charges in the first five months of this year.

In many cases, the women and children are forced into the sex trade through violence, threats of violence, coercion, and trickery. We consider these women and children to be victims of crime and we are committed to investigating all incidents relating to sexual exploitation and human trafficking and providing assistance to these victims.

Our experience leads us to believe that prostitution is exploitive, degrading, and inherently dangerous to those who sell sex. We are thankful for the opportunity to provide our input on such an important bill. We have asked the government to develop a made-in-Canada model, which gives police officers the necessary enforcement tools, is tough on pimps and johns, provides supports for victims of exploitation, and does not legalize an industry that is inherently dangerous.

It is our view that Bill C-36 accomplishes most of these goals. Specifically, we support the government's approach to abolish prostitution, prosecute those involved in the exploitation of others, provide support to those who are victimized, and reduce the negative impact to communities.

We are also in support of the tough sentences proposed for those who would exploit marginalized women and children. In the absence of new prostitution legislation, our ability to protect victims and vulnerable individuals, particularly women and children, would be impacted.

I would like to emphasize the connection between prostitution and human trafficking. Sexual exploitation almost always occurs among victims of human trafficking. While human trafficking legislation exists, human trafficking can be difficult to identify until trust and cooperation is established with victims. For this reason, human trafficking and prostitution investigations often go hand in hand.

A 2014 York Regional Police initiative resulted in the arrest of 10 men for human trafficking in relation to the sexual exploitation of a number of women and girls, 40% of whom were under 18 years of age. Although we did not initially have grounds to lay human trafficking charges, we were able to rely upon prostitution-related offences to separate these men from their victims. This gave us the opportunity to gain the trust of the victims, eliciting comprehensive statements to form the basis of human trafficking charges, as well as connecting those victims to support agencies.

You see, without the Criminal Code tools we would not be able to suss out the would-be victims and create the distance between the victims and the abuser. This is time consuming and often takes several attempts to gain the trust and confidence to help victims escape their abusers, not dissimilar to domestic violence.

Within the confines of a bawdy house or while under the control of pimps, victims are often afraid to ask officers for help. It is important to have the tools to separate victims from their exploiters, including the offences of receiving a material benefit for sexual services and procuring.

Generally during prostitution investigations, police in Canada recognize prostitutes as victims and vulnerable individuals. Certainly, York Regional Police has taken a victim-focused approach. It is important to stress that we do not seek to criminalize women in the sex trade. In the past five years, York Regional Police has not laid one single charge against a woman in the sex trade.

In our experience, many prostitutes enter prostitution unwillingly, and most enter while they are in their mid-teens. Similar to the 2014 initiative that I mentioned, during a two-week initiative in December 2013, York Regional Police investigators identified 31 young sex trade workers who were previously unknown to police. Of those 31, nearly 30% were under the age of 18, and the average age of entry into the sex trade was 14.8 years of age. Investigators were able to assist all of those under 18 in getting home to a safe place for Christmas. Without sustained help and support, however, it is our concern that most of these young women and girls are at risk of returning to the trade in a short time.

Adequate funding for support services will be essential. Once victims are extracted from the sex trade, they need exit strategies including access to programs and funding, which can assist not only with short-term accommodation and transportation needs, but also with underlying problems of substance abuse, mental illness, and the trauma of sexual abuse or exploitation.

Through our investigations, we have noted that many sex trade workers come out of the business penniless and with significant personal challenges including addictions. Our investigators have advised of incidents in which victims handed over thousands of dollars in cash to their pimps only to flee with nothing.

We commend the allocation of $20 million in funding as an important first step, and hope that the government will undertake an analysis of what additional funding may be needed in light of the input it receives from stakeholders.

Once Bill C-36 is implemented, it is our hope that this legislation and related funding will continue to provide law enforcement with the tools of intervention to extract victims from immediate dangers and connect them to victim services and support agencies.

York Regional Police supports the legislative changes in Bill C-36 to reduce victimization with the objective of the abolition of an inherently harmful and exploitative business.

We look forward to continued participation during the implementation of Bill C-36.

Thank you.

July 9th, 2014 / 9:55 a.m.
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Valerie Scott Legal Coordinator, Sex Professionals of Canada

Pardon me, I'm very allergic to fluorescent lights. I was told the lighting in here would be halogen, which is not true. So I will do my best here.

With this bill, you are going to drive us so far underground and make us work under such difficult conditions, with many more people working within those more dangerous conditions, that violence is bound to escalate. There is no question. It is not theory; it is not hypothesis. We are going to start getting killed; there is no question about that.

That was from Cathy, a witness at a parliamentary committee on Bill C-49, also known as the communicating law, on October 22, 1985. I was also one of the witnesses that day. We told you then what would happen, and you said, “Thank you very much”, and went ahead and passed the bill.

On December 20, 2013, the Supreme Court of Canada struck down one-third of the communicating law and one-tenth of the procuring law and the bawdy house law. It did so on the basis that the old laws compromised not only our health and safety, but were found on evidence to cause catastrophic harm. So why would this government not only reintroduce the old laws, but go even further and write new sections that will make our occupation even more dangerous than the old regime made it?

Bill C-36 is not rationally connected to the Supreme Court's reasoning in Canada v. Bedford. The laws regulating the sex trade are important, not only in an obvious way for what they prohibit but also for the conditions they create and their influence on how sex workers are perceived. When it is any other group, other than sex workers, people intuitively understand that there is a direct connection between what the law says about a group of people and how individuals of that group are treated by others.

When Russia passed laws to squelch the gay rights movement in June, 2013, no one was surprised to hear of a rise in gay-bashing cases, or that those protesting the laws—not the bashers—were jailed. When Uganda passed a law that included life imprisonment for homosexual acts and Nigeria banned same-sex unions and began arresting those suspected of being gay, we were not shocked to hear of beatings, torture, and murders.

We know that criminalizing homosexuality leads to increased violence against homosexuals. It should be equally obvious that criminalizing sex work increases violence against sex workers. That is one of the reasons why decriminalization is so important to us. Laws don't only reflect society, they shape both attitudes and how activities are conducted. Social purity laws are particularly problematic. Think about the prohibition of alcohol in the U.S. in the 1920s. People didn't react by saying, “Okay, I guess I'll never have another glass of wine”. Instead, they found ways around the law. Prohibition enriched organized crime, kept the police busy, added risks that weren't there before, and criminalized the actions of a significant percentage of the population. The laws shaped the way the activity was carried out. What it didn't do was achieve its stated aims. Of course, this will be the effect of Bill C-36.

Our clients have been called horrible names lately: perverts, pathetic, predators. But think who our clients really are. They are not the Robert Picktons or the Gary Ridgways of this world. They do not arrive on a shuttle from Mars at sundown. They are men who, for many different reasons, buy our services, and I must stress, “our services”. They do not buy us. Our clients are your fathers, your brothers, your uncles, and yes, your colleagues.

The spectre of parading them in front of the media and courts for the entertainment value of shame and humiliation is irresistible to those of the finger-pointing persuasion. But these are revenge laws, and revenge laws have no place in a just society.

When you tell society that we are criminals, that you want to legislate us out of existence, predators will take you up on the offer. We all know about the Robert Picktons and the Gary Ridgways of this world. Gary Ridgway, the Green River murderer, said:

...I hate most prostitutes and I did not want to pay them for sex. I also picked prostitutes as [my] victims because they were easy to pick up without being noticed. I knew they would not be reported missing right away and might never be reported missing.

Ridgway was convicted of murdering 49 of my colleagues, but later confessed to murdering almost double that number. Bad laws serve us up on a silver platter to sexual predators.

Most people, whether pro or con, aren't happy with Bill C-36. SPOC's advice is to scrap the bill in its entirety. After all, as Justice Minister Peter MacKay said in his statement released on December 20, 2013:

A number of other Criminal Code provisions remain in place to protect those engaged in prostitution and other vulnerable persons, and to address the negative effects prostitution has on communities.

On that, and on that alone, we agree with Minister MacKay. There are a plethora of other Criminal Code provisions that specifically address extortion, coercion, procuring, assault, forcible confinement, human trafficking, and about 14 different laws protecting against the exploitation of minors.

SPOC's position is to let the laws that the Supreme Court struck down—

July 9th, 2014 / 9:50 a.m.
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Amy Lebovitch Executive Director, Sex Professionals of Canada

I'm under no false pretence that many of you here will actually be invested in hearing me out. Really hear me.

Sex workers are very well connected in our movement. We know what we need to keep ourselves safer and how to go about establishing more optimal working conditions.

I've been involved with sex work community organizing for 11 years now, and in my 17 years of working as a sex worker I have worked street-based, for agencies, and currently I am an independent worker.

As a plaintiff in the recent Supreme Court case, which has become a broad discussion in the mainstream, the name Lebovitch, my name, certainly has lost its anonymity. I don't want that loss of privacy and the stigma that I have faced to be done in vain. I don't want the rights that my colleagues have gained from this case to be stripped away.

Drawing on my own knowledge and expertise and that of the people who I have known and I have worked with over the years, I can tell you there is a clear disconnect between Bill C-36 and all of the evidence and education we have provided to the government about the policy perspective needed to move forward. Our priorities and concerns have been completely ignored.

I'm not here today to tell you how to amend this bill. It's beyond salvaging. This is not a moral crusade to be won. It is a struggle to assert voices of dignity and human rights. We have consistently proposed an effective model that takes into account sex workers' realities and practical concerns. That is the New Zealand model of decriminalization.

The rest of my time, in my mind, is best served by me explaining to you and imagining a point in time of my colleagues under the tyranny of Bill C-36.

It's late...so stressed out...the cops keep harassing me, telling me to move. I have to make more cash to get the things I need.

Where are the others working tonight? Clients are so paranoid, not stopping for more than a quick minute before driving off. It freaks me out that these guys want me to get into their cars and we've only talked for five seconds. I heard some of the others were working out in the industrial park. More clients are driving out around there. Does the bus go out that far? Could I even catch it at this time?

Oh, look, there's D. He gives me the creeps but I know he's a good friend.

I just checked into my motel and put my ad up on Backpage. Damn, that was expensive; Backpage prices have really gone up. They just shut down two other sites. I could advertise for free on one of them. I heard they're going to shut down Backpage too. How am I going to get clients then?

Guys are not giving me their info for my screening. He called from a blocked number. I couldn't even check with the bad date list. The last guy who came over wouldn't even pay me at the beginning, he was so paranoid. I had to suck him off before he trusted I was not a cop. Then he tried to walk out without paying.

One of my friends just got kicked out of the motel. Are the cops outside watching who is coming in and out? Clients are trying to haggle down my price. Maybe I should lower my rates. How am I going to pay my rent?

As demonstrated by these very realistic examples, our lives as sex workers will be made much more precarious and anxiety-filled as a result of this bill, should it be implemented.

We will continue to work, but under much more dangerous conditions. We will constantly be looking over our shoulders. We will still find ourselves under the structure of criminalization. We will lose our negotiating power for the rates we charge, for our safety, for the right to make demands about our comfort levels in providing certain services. We will still be unable to report abuse and harassment. We still won't have access to labour rights because under this bill we are nothing but voiceless victims in need of rescue.

We can do better than this for sex workers. As I have stated earlier, the government has the evidence and policy examples of a better way forward. I implore you to centralize the voices and concerns of my sex-working colleagues.

We cannot afford to wait another six-plus years for another Supreme Court challenge. Lives are at stake.

July 9th, 2014 / 9:40 a.m.
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Glendene Grant Founder, Mothers Against Trafficking Humans

Thank you. Thank you for having me here today. It's an honour to be present.

My name is Glendene Grant. I'm a wife, a mother, a grandmother, and the founder of MATH, Mothers Against Trafficking Humans. I'm not here today with any studies or data. I have a real story.

I started MATH on April 18, 2010, as part of my way to raise awareness of human trafficking and educate anyone I can about the crime of human trafficking, after my daughter Jessie Foster went missing.

She was quickly known to be a victim of the crime. She is an international endangered missing woman and pretty much the most well-known human trafficking victim in Canada. Some of us even refer to her as the poster child for the crime. So my reason for being here is personal. I want to tell you a little bit about what happened to Jessie.

When she was 17 she met a man in Calgary who became her friend. They stayed friends even after she graduated high school, got a job, and her own apartment. To me this person was grooming her. That's my opinion. He is a recruiter and a pimp. His brother is a known pimp. We didn't know that right away, but when we found out it fell into place. She was taken on two “trips”. I always do quotes around “trips” because they weren't what you would want to go on.

They took her to Florida. They took her to Manhattan and Atlantic City, and instead of bringing her home on the second trip, they took her to Las Vegas. This happened after it was suggested to her that she prostitute herself the night before they were to leave, because their funds had run out and he didn't have any money for expenses to get them home .

So she rushed downstairs and called me, and was a little bit upset at the time, but said he's just being a jerk and I'm going back up to my room.

The next morning she called and said they were going to Las Vegas. She said nothing about what had happened the night before. She acted like it didn't happen. I was scared. I didn't know what was going on. I just knew that it wasn't a normal situation.

When she got to Las Vegas she called and said she was going to stay there until her 21st birthday, which was two weeks away. Twenty-one is the legal age in Las Vegas so it also fell into place once she went missing.

It didn't take her long to change her story. After the birthday story there was an accident. Then she had to stay for insurance. Then after that she met a fellow. After that she fell in love, moved in, and got engaged. This all happened very quickly. She was actually living with this fellow by June. She only got there in May.

After she went missing we hired a private investigator. She had been beaten, hospitalized with a broken jaw, forced to work in an escort agency, and arrested for solicitation.

When I talk about Jessie I talk about my honour roll student. She was into sports, music, dance, had tonnes of friends since kindergarten, and had never been in trouble ever in her life, not with school, friends, parents, or anything.

The first time she was arrested was in June. She had only been taken there in May. She was arrested again in September. She went missing in March. It was 10 months after she was taken down there. When we hired a private investigator, everything came out immediately.

Her pimp, or I should say her fiancé, had a bail bonds company he worked with all the time. This bail bonds company bailed Jessie out twice plus all of his other girls who worked for him. I know this because I actually talked to the bounty hunter who worked for him. This guy called me up and wanted to find Jessie. She was due for court and had a bail. I told him, you find her, because she's missing and I'd be glad for her to go to jail. I don't care what....

He was very touched by her story, and once that case ended and he had no contract, he came on pro bono to help us look for Jessie. He couldn't find her either.

Now with Jessie, she's my second oldest of four daughters. She has a stepdad, my husband, Jim, and me. We've been together almost 30 years, but yesterday was our first wedding anniversary. We just got married. I felt horrible doing it without Jessie, but we've done a lot of things without Jessie in the last eight years. Two of her sisters have become moms. Life has gone on. As best as we can, we've coped with it.

Two of her sisters were still teenagers when she went missing. Her older sister was 23 so they were just entering their adulthood. The problem with all that is that they've had to do all this with a missing sister, and to do all that you have to really learn to cope. They kind of took their key from me. I said whatever we're going to do we're going to do for Jessie, and we're going to do it with Jessie in our hearts.

Some of us have coped. Some of us haven't. Her father has not. He is no longer working. His health has deteriorated. He's greatly overweight, and it's sad to say because he's a wonderful man but this has destroyed him from the inside out. It's his daughter and he can't cope with it.

I'm very grateful that I have a supportive husband. He has a very supportive wife, too, but sometimes that's not enough. Jim's there with me all the way.

Now this is why I believe in Bill C-36. The biggest reason is that we can't have the alternative. We can't have prostitution, and everything else connected to it, as a legal occupation in Canada. We need to keep laws in place to stop it. There are no safe ways for there to be legal brothels and street walkers with bodyguards, or pimps, as I call them. We know they're pimps. We need to let them know this is not going to be tolerated in Canada again. We can't risk more and more people being forced into the sex trade, if this was to be a legal job, as there would never be enough people to fill the potential job openings.

We truly cannot have any more victims like Jessie or any more families like ours. I've been living this nightmare for eight years. Even eight days or eight hours is a really hard time. When Jessie first went missing, we all thought it was going to be over the next day, at the end of the week. The first year comes along; it's just ongoing. Some people who are advocates, we can't live without them, but thank goodness they can take a day off or go on a holiday and get a little reprieve from this. I can't. I wake up every day...goes to Jessie, goes to what probably happened to her, and then it goes to my fight to stop this from happening.

Another important fact, in my opinion, is that we need to stop this demand, because that's the only thing that's keeping it going. If we don't hold the pimps and the johns accountable, it'll never happen. There are people who want to pay for sex and there are people who are victimized into servicing them by some very cruel people.

We need lots of funding for people to exit the sex trade. It's something that's needed; otherwise, nothing else will work. There are many people who have told me that they're in the sex trade because they have no way out. They don't want to stay in it, but they can't afford to support their children and get some kind of an education. None of them are receiving any counselling for the trauma that they've endured. They've been told, literally, it's a catch-22. They want to leave. When they try, they fail and they end up back. That to me is absolutely horrible. The men, women, and children need to get a way to get their lives back. They need to learn how to live happy, healthy lives, and those with children need to do it for their kids, too. It takes time and money. It's not easy. They want to live a life that they're proud of.

I just spoke to a woman the other day. She messaged me on Facebook and asked me why I support this bill. She does not, but she believes everyone has an opinion. We conversed for quite some time. She told me, “I will never tell my daughters what I do for a living.” To me that just told me right there and then that's not her choice of a job, of a career. If you want your children to make the right choices in their lives, they have to be told the truth. They have to know what's going on in their own lives and families. Otherwise, you know, they're just falling. They need to know what their mother does for a living, and they need to be proud of everything.

As far as MATH is concerned, MATH has really helped me. I speak all over, at different types of events. Some I do just on my own with MATH. If it's in the Kamloops and District Crime Stoppers area, I go with Mark Price. He's the head of that organization there. We just go to schools. We go to anything we can. We've been to a school in Boston Bar, B.C.—it's such a small place, kindergarten through 12 is one school—because of a missing young lady. She was missing for two weeks, and she came back. Everyone thought, “Thank goodness, she's back. She's fine.” Then they started realizing she wasn't fine, so they brought us into their school so we could explain to their students what's out there.

With me it's become a personal crusade. It's my coping mechanism. It's also my way to keep Jessie out there. I have no proof that Jessie's not alive or that she's dead, so I go on the assumption that she is alive. Hopefully, we'll find her one day. When we do find her, she's going to see that there have been fights in her name and changes brought about.

I'm not just going to sit there. When Jessie went missing there was a fine line between a missing person and a human trafficking victim. Everyone thought I was grasping at a straw, I needed an excuse, something to explain what happened to my daughter and where she went. Now we are eight-plus years, eight-and-a-half years later, and we have laws that are changing. Every day we're hearing about organizations being arrested and people being charged with this crime. When Jessie went missing, it wasn't even a known crime. People told me it doesn't happen in North America, it doesn't happen in Canada. We now know it does.

So we need to make a change, and I want to thank you for allowing me to speak on Jessie's behalf.

July 9th, 2014 / 9:35 a.m.
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Rudi Czekalla Consultant, Principal, Municipal Policy Consultants, Adult Entertainment Association of Canada

Good morning, and thank you for having me here today to speak to you on Bill C-36.

My name is Rudi Czekalla Martínez, and I am the principal at Municipal Policy Consultants in Toronto, Ontario. I have been involved in the development of public policy in the area of adult entertainment both as a regulator and a private consultant for almost 15 years.

I'm also the author of the “Enhanced Adult Services Study” that Mr. Lambrinos referred to.

From my experience I can tell you that although the federal government lays out the regulatory framework for prostitution in this country, it is actually the municipalities that have the greatest impact on how prostitution is managed. This is the case because irrespective of what the federal government does, prostitution finds a way to continue to exist. It may transform its modus operandi to accommodate legislation, but it never goes away. Municipalities understand this very well and they have responded in a number of ways.

In Vancouver, Calgary, and Edmonton, municipal authorities have been licensing escort services for more than a decade. Not unlike the businesses themselves, which carefully set up their operations to make sure they don't technically run afoul of the law, these municipalities have carefully worded their own bylaws to ensure that they do not directly contradict the criminal laws, while at the same time indirectly regulate the business of prostitution.

So you see, we have a situation in which the different levels of government are not working together effectively to come up with a realistic, practical, balanced, and of course, constitutionally valid solution.

The model proposed in Bill C-36 does nothing to alleviate this matter. Aside from not responding to the issues raised by the Supreme Court, it also does nothing to help the provinces, and ultimately municipal governments, to deal with the real issues: the safety of the women involved in prostitution; their social marginalization; and their economic disenfranchisement. These are all things created by current as well as the proposed legislation.

The study I conducted includes 103 key findings and nine major recommendations, with 37 actionable items. In the short time I have before you, I would like to provide you with a synopsis of the study's recommendations and approach to their implementation.

First and foremost, an effective model needs to have outcome-based objectives against which the effectiveness of the approach is measured. Of course this means having valid and reliable metrics, which in turns means that there has to be relevant, consistent, and timely data available.

In Sweden, the government set as one of its objectives to reduce the violence against prostitutes. As several independent studies have pointed out, the government then went on to claim that it was achieving its goal because there were fewer prostitutes working on the streets, which was then interpreted to mean that there was less prostitution overall, and therefore less violence as well.

The government in Sweden never had valid and reliable metrics. It simply made very fallible assumptions. In fact, what has happened in Sweden is that the legislation there has simply driven prostitution deeper underground, not reducing levels in any significant way. By doing so it has also made it more dangerous, as sex worker focus groups have revealed.

Here at home, police services, from the RCMP all the way to the local police forces, don't keep the kind of data that is needed to ensure that we are measuring what needs to be measured. So the centralization of data collection by law enforcement authorities is one of the central recommendations of the study.

Another set key recommendation from the study focuses on the need to employ a harm reduction approach. We know that criminalization, whether explicit as in the United States or implicit as has been the case in Canada, and would continue to be so under the proposed legislation, simply doesn't work. We therefore need to focus on reducing individual, group, and social harm. This can only be done by redressing the laws and institutionalized norms that systematically victimize sex workers. Human trafficking, sexual exploitation, physical and psychological violence, social marginalization, and economic disenfranchisement are all issues that have to be addressed through a balanced combination of regulation and supports.

An excise tax on services would go a long way to pay for such programs.

Finally, the study makes a case for having all levels of government explicitly working together to come up with a strategy that does what I have just described. For each issue and sub-issue, there will almost always be a level of government that will be the lead and have the other orders of government play supporting roles. Without an explicit implementation plan, driven by specific outcomes and validated by specific measures, any attempt at addressing prostitution risks becomes just another ambiguously unsuccessful attempt in a long line of similar attempts at dealing with this issue.

I echo the sentiment shared by Mr. Lambrinos that this committee should consider recommending to Parliament that further work be undertaken, and that an extension for such work be sought from the Supreme Court.

Thank you.

July 9th, 2014 / 9:30 a.m.
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Conservative

The Chair Conservative Mike Wallace

I call this meeting to order.

This is the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights, meeting number 38, and as per orders of the day, we are televised. Pursuant to the order of reference of Monday, June 16, 2014, we are dealing with C-36, an act to amend the Criminal Code in response to the Supreme Court of Canada decision in Attorney General of Canada v. Bedford and to make consequential amendments to other acts.

We have a number of witnesses joining this panel with us this morning.

From the Adult Entertainment Association of Canada, we have Tim Lambrinos and Rudi Czekalla. We have Mothers Against Trafficking Humans, Ms. Grant. From the Sex Professionals of Canada, Amy Lebovitch and Valerie Scott are here. From the York Regional Police, we have the chief of police, Chief Jolliffe.

From Denmark, all the way on video conference, we have Professor Ekberg, who is with the University of Glasgow school of law.

That is for the first panel.

We will go through the witness list as presented. Each organization will have 10 minutes to present to the committee, and then we will do our rounds of questions.

First, we have the Adult Entertainment Association of Canada. The floor is yours.

July 8th, 2014 / 4:55 p.m.
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Conservative

Joy Smith Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB

Thank you.

I just wanted to clarify something. Ms. Boivin said that the French assembly rejected the bill. Actually, the French assembly passed the bill on November 29. It was the French senate that rejected it today. They gutted the bill in committee.

Going on, I have two questions, one for Mr. and Mrs. Smith and one for Diane Redsky.

Linda and Ed Smith, you wrote me a letter. I just give you my profound condolences. The story of your daughter is a story I've heard a lot across this country. It's very common.

You said something very profound in your letter to me in support of Bill C-36. For the first time in Canada we are going after the predators, the johns, and the pimps, and making the purchasing of sex illegal. Do you think that would be very beneficial to Canada? Can you answer that for me?

July 8th, 2014 / 4:35 p.m.
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Conservative

Robert Goguen Conservative Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all the witnesses for coming today, and certainly to the Smith family, I offer my deepest sympathy. It is quite an experience to have lost one's daughter. Thank you for all your work on this important file.

Ms. Bruckert, I took your testimony to say that you believe Bill C-36 would criminalize the provision of all and any services to prostitutes. My reading of the bill doesn't sustain that whatsoever.

As a matter of fact, Bill C-36 would not prevent those who sell their sexual services from entering into any legitimate commercial relationships as long as they enter into those relationships on the same basis, the market value, that anyone else would enter them; for instance, in hiring an accountant, renting a spot from a landlord, having a pharmacist, a security company—any of the services available—providing, according to my reading of the bill, that those people do not coerce the person into paying them, such as by giving them drugs to force them to pay them.

You've probably read the act, I imagine.

July 8th, 2014 / 4:25 p.m.
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NDP

Françoise Boivin NDP Gatineau, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to everyone here today, as well as the members of the Smith family, who are joining us via videoconference.

My first words will be for you guys.

Nobody can even fathom the idea of what you went through, but through both of you, I have the feeling that your daughter was here with us at the time you were speaking. I don't remember, I think it was 800 presentations, Ed was saying that you did, Ms. Smith. I'm in awe that you picked yourself up and decided to do something about it. For that, I really salute you.

At the same time I was listening to your story, I was thinking of another one that I heard not too long ago but in another context. It was not the one on the prostitution bill but on the missing and murdered aboriginal women. I went with some of my friends from the U.S. Embassy to visit a reserve not too far from my riding in Gatineau, in Maniwaki, an Algonquin reserve where two young girls completely disappeared on September 6, 2008. Police think they might have been grabbed for prostitution, which could be likely. Their mothers are not removing any hope from their hearts .

Sometimes you might hear things in Regina that the bad opposition parties really support all the johns, and this and that, and the people who human traffic. That's not true. They're simply trying to find the balance and the right way to do things. I really wanted to convey this to you, so at least you can share this a bit in your neck of the woods.

For me, when I look at the legislation, I look at it in its entirety. I heard your message about the police not reacting when you were talking to them. That's exactly what I heard from the mothers of Maisy and Shannon, that they were not taken seriously. When I see the number of times we have asked for a national inquiry and keep hearing, “Well, we don't need a national inquiry because we know what the problem is”, but we don't fix it. That's kind of sad.

But at the same time we have to careful not to—how do I say that—

mix things.

My apologies, but I'm having trouble coming up with the right word in English. No doubt, the interpreters will find the right expression.

Human trafficking and prostitution. So all the examples that I'm hearing here, through the committee, I take with all the other examples of those who have been trafficked and end up in prostitution. We have to address this. It's a complex issue; it's not as simple as one, two, three.

To Mr. Cassells, you might like the preamble. Enjoy it, because when the law is adopted, except for those geeks like me who like to go back, not many people will see the preamble. It won't be part of the criminal section. That's very important because for a lot of people we hear it here. They talk a lot about the preamble, but for lawyers it's going to give an impression of the story behind certain dispositions and it will be interpreted in different ways. Take two lawyers and they will interpret it very differently, so don't put too much hope on a preamble, please.

At least I will give you credit, you're honest. Abolition is the way to go. I find that interesting because France, which has been quoted as being a place that is thinking about the Swedish and Nordic model, just today decided to remove criminalization of the client. Imagine, the client. They were going through the Nordic model. Why? I'll mention what their decision was.

I am going to switch to French. I apologize, but these comments were made in France, where they speak French like me.

They refer to the fact that the provisions aren't coherent from a legal standpoint, because allowing prostitution in France—

Mind you, all of you who are listening to us, prostitution will not be made illegal by Bill C-36. The Conservatives have not said that.

and doing away with sanctions against solicitation can't be reconciled with penalizing clients.

That's what they said. France is currently deliberating the issue and the discussion is at the committee stage of the process. Working out the appropriate provisions isn't easy.

I'd like to ask the lawyers here what they think of that reasoning in France's decision. What do they make of the fact that the problem can't be solved simply by criminalizing one half of the equation? Basically, either no one is breaking the law or the law is hypocritical.

Racolage is “solicitation”.

July 8th, 2014 / 4:15 p.m.
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John Cassells Street Youth Specialist, SIM Canada

Thank you, Mr. Wallace, and thank you to the committee for inviting me to speak.

Thank you as well to Ed and Linda Smith for sharing from your personal tragedy.

I began my career as a youth worker in 1984. One of the first young people I worked with hitchhiked away from her small town in British Columbia and her broken home life there and was forced into prostitution on the streets of Edmonton at 12 years old.

Since that time I've walked alongside countless young people as they have broken free from prostitution. I've designed and overseen outreach programs and support groups for those who have been trapped in that lifestyle. In my work I've had the opportunity to study and understand the workings of the Canadian sex trade. I speak from personal observations that I've made in my work both in Ontario and British Columbia. This is real-world experience that spans three decades.

I've observed that when young women and men remain involved in prostitution or connected with the street culture, they commonly view prostitution as normal. Given the opportunity to distance themselves from that lifestyle, the vast majority shift to an abhorrent view of the sex trade, recognizing it as extremely harmful. This phenomena must be considered as we listen to witnesses who represent current prostitutes, and therefore we should pay particular attention to former prostitutes who have distanced themselves from the street and progressed on their journeys of healing. These women have a much greater perspective.

I'm a supporter of Bill C-36 and I'm not fully satisfied with it in its current state. The preamble of the bill creates a long-overdue paradigm shift. It helps Canadians from all walks of life to view the prostitute from a well-informed perspective. She is worthy of dignity and those who would seek to exploit her are in the wrong. It clarifies that the protection of an exploited person needs to be the priority.

Then Bill C-36 addresses the buyer, the client, as one who perpetuates the processes of an industry that destroys young lives. I applaud the bold move to make buying sex illegal in Canada. I support the government in its recognition that the exploitation of minors is inseparable from the adult sex industry. In Canada right now a high demand for paid sex creates business opportunities for human traffickers. Their most common prey is female and under 18 years of age.

I agree with the added protections Bill C-36 will give to these young people, including those at risk of exploitation by the production and distribution of child pornography. If it is a priority to safeguard Canadian young people against the horrors of the sex trade, you must pass Bill C-36, but there are some important changes that need to be done.

As it stands, Bill C-36 can be expected to create a modest decrease in the demand for paid sex. Given the level of violence perpetrated against countless young people, more than a modest response is warranted. The effectiveness of Canada's new prostitution laws will be borne out in the hands of our police agencies and in our courts. Right now Bill C-36 to some degree actually plays into the hands of human traffickers, and I'll explain how that is.

The Supreme Court ruled unconstitutional soliciting in public, running a brothel, and living off the avails of prostitution. It's important that these provisions remain in place, yet Bill C-36, with some limitations, legalizes all three.

While the intention is to protect the interests of the victims in the sex trade, it actually creates some opportunities for pimps and buyers to continue to operate with a low risk of being criminally prosecuted. Under the proposed laws, the prostitute will be allowed to solicit in public. Since the buyer, who also solicits in public, will be an easy caller, street prostitution if controlled by police enforcement will only continue to decrease.

Under the proposed laws, the prostitute will be allowed to operate a brothel. The challenge for a seller of sex would be to decrease the likelihood of police interference with the buyer. In-call prostitution would move out of the hotels and more and more into residential neighbourhoods where you and I raise our families. Paid sex in massage parlours will probably remain very strong. It may in fact increase. Out-call prostitution will flourish.

These changes would protect the buyer, but not the prostitute. As a result, the demand for paid sex will remain very strong. That is counter to the objectives of Bill C-36, and we must not allow that. Under the proposed laws, living off the avails of prostitution will be legal within certain parameters. Human traffickers will claim status as roommates, as common-law husbands. In terms of their business involvement, they will claim to be no more than drivers or bodyguards. They will in reality still control the minute-by-minute movements of the prostitute. This will actually strengthen the position of the pimp because he will be more difficult to prosecute. That, too, goes against the objectives of the bill. We must not allow that.

Two weeks ago a detailed study by Max Waltman at Stockholm University was published in the Harvard Journal of Law and Gender. The purpose of the study was to assess evidence arguments and inequality in Bedford v. Canada. Mr. Waltman writes:

This article assesses the evidence relied on by courts to strike down the laws, finding that evidence was misrepresented and misevaluated, thus did not support their decision. By invalidating these provisions, Canada will expose prostituted people to predators while protecting their exploiters. Their decisions overturn previous precedents that shielded prostituted people from abusive pimps, and violate Canada’s commitment to promote equality among historically disadvantaged people, ....

As it stands, Bill C-36 heads us in a very positive direction, and its major flaws can easily be rectified, at least from my layman's perspective as a youth worker. There's a very strong move to ban all manner of advertisements for prostitution. If you allow the prostitute to advertise herself, she will do that, and in a high percentage of cases she will do that because she is being forced to make money for her pimp. We will see at best a small decrease in such advertising, but you can expect the advertisements will become even more explicit.

Ladies and gentlemen, there are countless teenage girls and young women being trafficked right now in Canada's sex trade. Some will die in the commission of prostitution activities. Many more will die by causes linked to prostitution. All will be profoundly harmed.

If you wish to significantly decrease prostitution in Canada, and the violence that accompanies it, you will need to remove the immunity for prosecution of the prostitute and you'll need to keep the present definition of “common bawdy house”, including in that definition that it is a place that is kept for the purpose of prostitution. Doing so will most effectively serve the interests of those who are exploited and in harm's way. These necessary adjustments will not forfeit the wonderful work of people like MP Joy Smith who have brought the abolitionist ideology to the forefront of discussion.

The intent of the legislation, as stated in the preamble, emphasizes those clear objectives. This approach should reasonably satisfy the many who seek legislation patterned after the Nordic model and still give those who enforce the laws the tools to accomplish those objectives.

Give us a Canadian model of prostitution legislation, but one that will be effective in stemming the demand for paid sex, thereby saving our young people from human trafficking.

July 8th, 2014 / 4:10 p.m.
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Ed Smith As an Individual

I also want to thank you for this opportunity to speak before this committee.

Since the death of our daughter we have tried to do what we can to help those who are being sexually exploited. We have tried to warn children about the danger of predators who are trying to recruit them into the sex trade. We have tried to educate men about the damage they do to the sexually exploited women and children, and to themselves, when they pay money for sex.

When the news of Cheri's murder hit the media, we began to receive many calls from parents who had children at risk or who were already involved in prostitution. Girls in high school were being “tricked out” over the lunch hour. Others were prostituting themselves out of party houses on weekends or evenings. We often felt helpless when parents pleaded with us about how to rescue their child.

To try to warn these girls and other children at risk, Linda developed a presentation that she delivered over 800 times in schools to grades six, seven, and eight students. In the evenings we would meet with their parents to alert them to known places where girls were being procured, and to look for warning signs that might indicate their child was at risk.

Unfortunately, there were very few resources available for parents to help them intervene on behalf of their teenage children.

Since Cheri's death I have participated as a speaker in over 100 John schools in Regina and Saskatoon. I talk about the heartache that our family has experienced as a result of Cheri being sexually exploited and murdered.

I hear women who are survivors of the sex trade share about the terrible things that have happened to them. Many were forced into prostitution as children, some as young as eight years old. Their self-esteem and dignity have been destroyed by the abuse they have endured at the hands of men, men who feel that because they paid for her, they can do whatever they want to her.

These women weep as they remember other women they have worked with who have gone missing, been murdered, committed suicide, or died of a drug overdose. These former prostitutes declare how much they hated what they were doing, but they felt trapped by their drug addiction or the threats of violence from their pimps if they didn't make enough money. These women are not criminals, they are victims and deserve protection.

Bill C-36 will help provide that protection by offering the resources to give them an exit strategy. At the John schools I see men who are buyers of sex openly admit that their use of prostitutes is doing great damage to themselves and their families as they try to hide this dark secret they are living with. Many of the men tearfully ask for forgiveness as they realize the harm they are doing to the women they are abusing.

The harsher penalties in Bill C-36 aimed at the purchasers of sex and the traffickers will make men think twice about purchasing sex, and deter the trafficker from what in the past has been easy money for them, with very little risk.

A sad fact is that if men were not willing to pay money for sex, our daughter would still be alive today. She would not have been a target for a trafficker who needed money to buy his drugs.

The world of prostitution destroys lives physically, spiritually, emotionally, and mentally. Bill C-36 will help protect innocent victims while deterring those who would prey on the most vulnerable in our society.

Thank you, again, for allowing us to speak in support of Bill C-36, which addresses an issue that is so close to our hearts.

July 8th, 2014 / 4:05 p.m.
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Linda Smith As an Individual

Thank you very much for this opportunity to speak today. We are honoured to be here.

I'm going to take just a few minutes to tell you our story, and then Ed will speak more directly to Bill C-36.

In 1990 our daughter Cheri Lynn Smith died. She was murdered. She was 18 years old and six months pregnant. We loved her very much and miss her every day. Our home was a happy one. As a child growing up, she did well in school, played organized sports, played the flute and the piano, and was in the school band and the city youth choir. Her natural leadership abilities were noticed and encouraged in the various groups she was involved with.

After grade 11, during the summer, Cheri attended the Regina exhibition with her brother and some friends. There she met a young man. He was 18 and she was 17. A few days later she told us she was in love with him and was leaving home to be with him. She said she would be back home for the start of school, her grade 12 year. We tried everything we knew to convince her not to leave, but she went with him anyway. She had no idea what he had planned for her.

Just a couple of days later she found herself in downtown Edmonton selling her body to men who used and abused her. In fact, her very first trick gave her a beating and stole her money. This was cause for the first of many beatings she took from her pimp. This is how he controlled her. He would romance her with sweet words, gifts, and sex, and then give her a beating and tell her it was her fault. Then she would do anything she could to gain back his favour. Many times she told us, “I love him. He needs me. I'll do whatever it takes to keep this relationship going.” He decided where and when she worked, how much money she had to make, even who she could talk to.

At the beginning, to be sure that Cheri would be dependent on him, he took her from her home town, Regina, and put her out on the unfamiliar streets of Edmonton, where she knew no one to call for help. He moved her to Calgary, Winnipeg, back home to Regina, and finally to Victoria, B.C., each time to isolate her from us, her family.

Cheri became pregnant while prostituting. She had no idea who the father was or even when she had become pregnant. By this time she had chlamydia, a sexually transmitted infection. She was malnourished and worn out. She believed, naively, that once the baby came she wouldn't have to work anymore, that her pimp would get a job and she would have the happy home she desperately wanted. So she still wouldn't leave him and come home.

The police apprehended Cheri in Calgary and Winnipeg. Because she was under age, they just sent her home. Then her pimp came and got her. We received no help, no advice or direction from the police to help her.

Finally, when she was working in Regina, she was caught in a sting operation. She was arrested and charged with solicitation. We were so hopeful that on her court date the judge would put her in our custody, but Cheri didn't appear at court. Her pimp had moved her to Victoria, where again she knew no one who could help her and was cut off from us. In her phone calls home she was sounding more and more unhappy and talked about coming home, but then she disappeared.

On June 4 one of the young prostitutes who knew Cheri reported to the police in Victoria that she was missing. The police didn't believe her. Later the girl brought in Cheri's wallet and some personal correspondence. Then they drew up a missing person file on her. That's all they did. They didn't contact us. But the young prostitute did phone us to tell us that she didn't know where Cheri was and that she was very worried.

I went out to Victoria, looking for Cheri. I met the young girl who had called us, her pimp, and some other very young girls and their pimps. No one knew where Cheri was. I met with the police. My appearance seemed to stir them into action.

About four weeks later, on September 9, Cheri's body was found. The autopsy showed that she died on June 4. She had been beaten to death. Of course, her unborn child died with her.

No one has ever been charged with her murder, but it's still being investigated.

My hope is, as you have listened to our story, that you heard two things: firstly, we could do nothing to help our daughter get out of prostitution; and secondly, that she was psychologically controlled by her pimp, that she was not able to make the decisions needed to free herself.

Our tragic experience is not an anomaly. There are many parents like us, trying to help their daughters. There are many Cheris out there, controlled, abused, disposable.

Please do all you can to help them.

Thank you.

July 8th, 2014 / 4 p.m.
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Lawyer, Pivot Legal Society

Elin Sigurdson

Yes, we're sharing our time.

With Ms. Porth, I also speak on behalf of Pivot Legal Society and Sex Workers United Against Violence society. I'm a lawyer who has represented SWUAV over the last more than 10 years in their legal efforts to decriminalize sex work.

The committee is here because the Supreme Court of Canada struck down a series of harmful laws in the Bedford case, but so far this week we haven't heard very much about the case. There are some clear principles in Bedford that must govern the enactment of any new law that makes criminal laws on sex work, and those principles must guide this committee. We'll deal with three of these.

First, there's a principle from Bedford that says that a criminal law that gets in the way of a sex worker's taking steps to improve the safety of her work is unconstitutional because it interferes with the security of the person. The Supreme Court of Canada found this in relation to the communicating law and said that if the law had stopped one person from taking basic steps to avoid being picked up by a serial killer, that harm was established.

There, the law was the former communicating law, but this bill proposes to enact that exact same law essentially without any meaningful amendment. Yesterday in the hearing, there was actually a good amount of consensus among witnesses with different views on how to legislate in this area about the communicating provision, saying that it is in fact unworkable for various reasons: it's vague, it's contrary to Bedford, it's harmful to sex workers, and it's probably unconstitutional.

In Bedford, the court similarly concluded that a law that overreaches its purpose and captures third parties who provide helpful assistance and not harmful exploitation is unconstitutional, again because it gets in the way of a sex worker's right to take the necessary steps to improve the safety and the dignity of her work. But with Bill C-36, the procuring and the materially benefiting provisions are still going to isolate sex workers and will mean that they are unable to enter into business relationships that are deemed part of a commercial enterprise, even if those relationships are safety-enhancing. This is exactly what the court was concerned with in Bedford when it struck the “living on the avails” provision. This new law resurrects that concern.

The second principle from Bedford that must guide you is that access to indoor spaces is safer. The courts at all levels agreed in the Bedford case that being able to work indoors is less dangerous, based on all of the evidence. This is because it allows sex workers greater control over the conditions of their work and their environment and allows them access to more safety strategies. Yesterday, comments were made in the hearing suggesting that it doesn't matter whether sex workers get to work indoors, because sex work will be dangerous wherever it takes place, because the cause of the harm is the purchaser, not the laws that restrict their operation.

But with respect, those points are incorrect both in fact and in law. These arguments were rejected by the Supreme Court. The courts all agreed that indoor work is safer, after considering a massive record of expert evidence.

Furthermore, the court determined that the law doesn't have to be the only cause of the harm; it has to have a sufficient causal connection to the harm. The principle is that Canadian laws cannot contribute to the dangers faced by sex workers. This law will do that.

The third principle that I highlight is that the laws must be understood as working together as an interlocking scheme. In Bedford, the court expressly directed the government that, if it decided to legislate in this area, it must do so with an understanding of how all the laws worked together. To properly understand how this legislative scheme will work in practice, you can't just look at the potential effects of one provision without understanding how it will interact with another.

With Bill C-36 you must think about how, for example, the advertising restrictions and the criminalization of the purchase of sex are going to work together. We say that together those mean that sex workers will not be able to work indoors.

So I urge this committee to examine that decision and consider these principles and come to the same conclusion that I do, which is that Bill C-36 does not comply with the word or the spirit of Bedford.

Some 220 lawyers and legal academics have written to this committee and to the government and have expressed their concerns that the bill risks breaching a number of charter rights. This committee must remember that you have an important constitutional purpose: lawmakers are required to ensure that laws are consistent with the constitution before enacting them, and you must take the time necessary to do that. Canadians are trusting you to ensure that you do not pass another law that makes the same mistake of putting sex workers into grave or graver jeopardy. But with this bill, the government is acting with unjustified haste and without sufficient consideration. Doing that is creating a new and even more harmful and unconstitutional legal regime.

Bill C-36 will not stand up to constitutional scrutiny on that basis, because its provisions are over-broad, they are vague, as has been the subject of much discussion in this committee, and they create harms that are grossly disproportionate to their objectives.

We urge this committee and Parliament to reject this bill. It would cause the same and potentially graver harms to sex workers as those under the laws that have been struck down. We're not just warning you about the law's flaws in academic legal terms. These are flaws that will result in violence and tragedy for the community of sex workers I represent, women who have faced horrendous forms of violence as a result of Canada's prostitution laws. I know that is not an outcome that anyone in this room would like to see.

July 8th, 2014 / 3:55 p.m.
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Kerry Porth Chair of the Board of Directors, Pivot Legal Society

Good afternoon. My name is Kerry Porth, and I am a former sex worker.

Given the nature of some of the discussions that have been going on, I feel it necessary to tell you that I did sex work in the context of profound addiction, poverty, and occasional homelessness.

Currently I am the chair of the board of directors for Pivot Legal Society, and for six years I was the executive director of a small charity located in Vancouver's Downtown Eastside that offers support to street-based sex workers.

In my capacity as a policy expert with extensive knowledge of the law and the evidence, I can tell you with no uncertainty whatsoever that Bill C-36 will cause great harm to sex workers across Canada.

I come to you from the community of the Downtown Eastside, a neighbourhood well known for its struggles to overcome poverty, addiction, and violence. Today I bring to you a clear message from the members of Sex Workers United Against Violence who are women, mostly aboriginal, who live and do sex work in the Downtown Eastside.

They want me to tell you they reject Bill C-36 in its entirety. They have much more to tell you and have therefore asked me to extend an urgent invitation to you, the members of the justice committee, to visit them in Vancouver so they can share their vision of a future where the human rights of sex workers are respected, where they do not feel hunted and hounded by law enforcement, where their clients are not targeted, and where they can conduct their work in dignity and safety.

Far from protecting sex workers, this bill will replicate all of the harms of the laws that were struck down in the case of Bedford v. Canada. But Bill C-36 goes even further by adding new laws prohibiting the purchase of sex, advertising sexual services, and redefines the former communication law in a way that prevents any communication between sex workers and their clients.

Pivot recently released a report entitled “My Work Should Not Cost Me My Life”, a copy of which has been sent to each of you and additional copies can be provided upon request. The report examines a recent shift in enforcement strategies employed by the Vancouver Police Department away from arresting street-based sex workers towards actively pursuing their clients. While this practice has been in operation for approximately five years, it became the official policy of the Vancouver Police Department in January 2013.

The Pivot report is based on research conducted by the gender and sexual health initiative at the University of British Columbia that resulted in a peer-reviewed study published in the prestigious British Medical Journal Open.

The BMJ Open study married findings from Sweden and other countries where the ban on purchasing sex has been implemented and demonstrate that when either party to a sex work transaction is criminalized, sex work continues to be pushed underground into a shadowy world where exploitation and violence can and do occur.

Sex workers who participated in the study report when police target their clients, they must take steps to avoid detection by law enforcement such as working in areas that are darkly lit and underpopulated, where they face risks due to their isolation. Clients have become nervous and are often scarce these days, but a sex worker who has stood on a corner for six hours and hasn't made any money cannot simply give up for the day and go home.

Many of the sex workers who participated in the study stated they are having to stay out far longer and in more desperate circumstances due to the shift in enforcement. In addition, clients who are now nervous and stressed by the fear of police pressure workers to get into their vehicle quickly or to follow their vehicle into a dark alley before negotiating the terms of the transaction. The ability to negotiate, to clearly communicate with a client prior to agreeing to a transaction, is a critical safety measure for sex workers that they are now forced to abandon.

Rushing negotiations limits the sex worker's opportunity to assess the potential client for signs of intoxication, to look for weapons or restraint devices, or to check a bad date sheet. Suggesting these sort of precautions will not prevent any violence is the same as saying to women all across Canada that all of the safety precautions they take will not prevent violence.

The client's fear of a potential sting operation means sex workers have to waste precious time needed to conduct a safety assessment trying to convince the client she is not a police officer. Historically, sex workers have had an extremely adversarial relationship with police, resulting in an extraordinarily low rate of reporting violence and exploitation. Shifting the focus of enforcement from sex workers to their clients will not change this.

For street-based sex workers who already live and work in extremely challenging circumstances, the income they earn from sex work is their livelihood. Please do not take it away from them.

I have no recommendations for amendments to Bill C-36. Instead, I suggest that this committee reject this bill in its entirety and allow the current laws to fall on December 20.

I further recommend that the government initiate a mature, national discussion that prioritizes the voices of those who have the most at stake in considering the future regulation of prostitution in Canada. I urge you to please listen to what sex workers are telling you.

Thank you.

July 8th, 2014 / 3:45 p.m.
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Diane Redsky Project Director, Task Force on Trafficking of Women and Girls in Canada, Canadian Women's Foundation

Great, thank you.

Good afternoon, and thank you for the opportunity to be here.

I would like to begin with acknowledging the Nishnawbe territory, which we all have the privilege of being on. I would also like to acknowledge the women and girls of sex trafficking, and their families. Some of them will appear here as survivor leaders and many are watching. We honour their voices.

I'm presenting this afternoon representing the work of the Canadian Women's Foundation to end sex trafficking of women and girls in Canada by referring to the voices of trafficked women as much as possible.

My three key messages today are that Canadian Women's Foundation is currently the preeminent expert on sex trafficking in Canada; that while the government's proposed legislation does offer some promising advances related to sex trafficking, there is room for improvements for trafficked women and girls; and that women and girls who are survivors of sex trafficking have been silenced and their perspectives must be part of this discussion.

First, I want to clarify that the Canadian Women's Foundation's expertise is in sex trafficking, which we define as forced prostitution. We are not experts on consensual prostitution. We are here because we feel compelled to share what we know about sex trafficking in Canada and its connection to prostitution. There are girls and women across our country who are trafficked into forced prostitution and are prevented by their exploiters from being heard. We are focused on breaking this silence. We are shining a spotlight on the voices and the unique needs of trafficked women and girls who are in the sex industry against their will. It is our hope that you will learn from our expertise on sex trafficking to inform your decision on Bill C-36.

The mission of the Canadian Women's Foundation is to empower women and girls across Canada to move out of violence, out of poverty, and into confidence. Over the last 23 years, we have invested over $40 million in grants to 1,300 community programs, including every women's shelter in Canada.

In 2012, the Canadian Women's Foundation formally launched a major initiative to help end sex trafficking. We invested $2 million in this important work and it focused on six priority areas. You have some of that information in your package.

We had a national task force of 24 experts from across Canada. These experts included survivors, front-line community organizations, police, and representatives from legal, justice, policy, research, and national organizations, including an indigenous elder and the co-chair of the Government of Canada's federal national action plan to combat trafficking in persons.

We travelled to 10 cities across Canada. We met with over 260 organizations and 160 survivors of sex trafficking. We also organized two national round tables, one with service providers and another with survivors of sex trafficking.

We have also invested over $800,000 in grants to fund grassroots community organizations, and we just launched a public awareness campaign about sex trafficking in Canada yesterday.

This fall, the Canadian Women's Foundation will be launching the task force's recommendations and the Canadian Women's Foundation's anti-trafficking strategy. This strategy is rooted in women's equality, and we'll be happy to share that strategy with you when it's ready.

Meanwhile, here are the few highlights of what we have learned.

Sex trafficking needs to be understood in the context of other forms of violence against women and girls, including domestic violence, sexual assault, the glorification of sexual exploitation, and the proliferation of child pornography, also know as child abuse images.

Sex trafficking is a deeply gendered practice. Most of the people being trafficked in Canada are Canadian women and girls, and most of the people who benefit or gain from their sexual exploitation are men.

Girls and women are being trafficked into and within Canada. Sex trafficking is connected to prostitution. Trafficked women and girls are forced into prostitution, often in the same locations, such as massage parlours, escort agencies, and strip clubs, and are advertised in the same publications by their traffickers.

Law enforcement officials told us that when the burden of evidence is too high to meet the threshold of Canada's new human trafficking legislation, they will fall back on the prostitution legislation to immediately intervene between a trafficker and a victim.

But although these issues are linked, we must never forget that trafficked women and girls have no choice, have no voice, and are victims of a crime.

Our comments on Bill C-36 are based on our expertise developed through the work of the task force and from survivors.

This bill does a few things to help protect trafficked women and girls. The legislation allows that sex trafficking and prostitution are connected, and proposes legislative changes to protect sex-trafficking victims. It acknowledges that trafficked women and girls require supportive services to exit.

The legislation also provides a few additional law enforcement tools related to sex trafficking, such as withholding or destroying documents, defining a weapon as anything to hold someone against their will, taking into consideration prior sentences for repeated trafficking-related crimes, and designating traffickers as long-term offenders, plus modernizing the procuring offence to align better with human trafficking offences, and increasing protection and prosecution for sexual offences against children under 16.

However, the legislation should be improved to better recognize the needs of women and girls who are trafficked. We would like to see a significant increase in funding of services. The $20-million investment, and we've heard this time and time again, is not enough. There is no quick fix for services for trafficked women and girls, and we need to view this issue with the long term in mind, address the root causes, and support survivor-led initiatives.

We are deeply concerned for the potential of trafficked women and girls to be criminalized if they are forced by their trafficker in any of the criminal provisions within Bill C-36. For example, it is not clear how the complexities of women and girls who are trafficked can be protected when forced to be on the streets, or advertised online. How can we make sure victims of sex trafficking are not criminalized?

We'd also like to stress that trafficked minors under the age of 18 are victims of child abuse, and offenders should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Criminal provisions must reflect the seriousness of the harm done to a minor, and we recommend increasing sentencing for obtaining sexual services from a person under 18.

This is the most important part of my presentation, and this is a survivor voice of sex trafficking. Trafficked girls and women have been silenced by their exploiters. The Canadian Women's Foundation is committed to ensuring their voices are heard and their unique needs are addressed. Based on what survivors shared with us, this is a summary of a common sex trafficking experience.

Many survivors were recruited around the age of 13, often through betrayal of trust or a promise of a better life. One former trafficker bragged about how easy it was to lure, and recruit, and intimidate and control young girls into forced prostitution. One survivor told us:

I was in a room with a bunch of girls and we had to take our clothes off and they decided how much we were worth. I thought I was going to be a model. I was then taken to Calgary and forced and watched.

Another woman said, “For me it was an escape from an abusive household. I was 13. He was in his 30s.”

Trafficked women and girls are victims of a serious crime. One woman shared a particularly harrowing story:

I was beaten and held in a hotel for 14 weeks. People watched as six large men dragged me down the street and then turned their heads away. The cops laughed at me. The traffickers lit my parent's house on fire and my mom almost died.

Another said, “They always talked about killing me—killing me, my sister, or my dog.”

Many victims try to escape without success. One woman said, “I tried 10 times to exit, but didn't get out until I was 29 years old.”

Another said, “It was the $50,000 exit fee that stopped me from leaving.”

Many survivors become trauma-bonded with their trafficker, seeing them as someone who loves them and who will protect them. We have to understand that this is how they survive. As one survivor said:

My (exploiters) found out what was tough about my life. They learned about my parents, my siblings and my school. They put it all together and used it.

By their mid-twenties, many survivors are discarded by their traffickers because they are considered too old, and because demand is higher for younger girls. At this point, one of three things typically happens. One, they enter the survival sex industry, exchanging sex acts for basic economic survival. Or they end their own life, or become part of the missing and murdered women and girls. Or they begin the long, hard road of recovery and rebuilding lives, which many women do, and achieve great courage, strength, and resiliency.

Almost all survivors of sex trafficking have criminal records and these criminal records make it extremely difficult to rebuild their lives, and can increase their vulnerability to be trafficked again. One sad but common reality for many trafficked women is that they grow old very quickly. Many suffer from terminal illnesses at young ages. Many are 40 years old and are literally dying.

The task force met with a national survivor round table. This was an extremely powerful experience. Formal consultation gave survivors of sex trafficking a dignified opportunity to share their stories and to be respected for their expertise on this issue. They had many messages for the task force and for all Canadians, but here are just a few examples.

Many survivors shared their experience of having to meet a daily quota set by their trafficker, or suffer extreme violence. They were forced to hand over all of their money to their trafficker.

Another survivor described her experience as repeated incidents of paid rape.

They also told us that they wished people knew what really goes on behind closed doors. They said that the men who purchase sex routinely force them into humiliating, degrading, and extremely abusive acts. They told us about services they need to begin and to sustain the long-term journey to rebuild their lives. They desperately need help but currently do not have it. As one survivor said, “When you exit, you stand alone”.

One survivor was very blunt: “When you have guys in videos telling boys at school to have six bitches working for them, this is a system that needs to change.” Survivors want men and boys to receive services that teach them how to respect women so they do not become exploiters. The long-term wish of the survivors we met is for a society where women and girls are valued, honoured, and respected.

In conclusion, over the last three years, our work to end sex trafficking has been extremely challenging, but it has brought many gifts. One of the greatest gifts has been the opportunity to learn from 160 women who have shared their experience with us. Time and again, despite the odds, despite the fact that the system which we created actually worked against them, they have found the strength and courage to rebuild their lives. In fact, they are giving back by sharing their experiences with us, in hopes that together we can find solutions. It is vital that we hear and honour their voices.

I would like to conclude with the words of a survivor of sex trafficking: “Just try hard not to give up on us like everybody else in the world has”.

Megwetch. Thank you.

July 8th, 2014 / 3:30 p.m.
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Prof. Christine Bruckert Professor, Department of Criminology, University of Ottawa, As an Individual

Thank you.

Hello. My name is Chris Bruckert. I hold a doctorate in sociology from Carleton University and I'm a professor of criminology at the University of Ottawa. I have spent the last 20 years examining various aspects of the sex industry, including conducting research on street-based sex work, the in-call and out-call sex industry, male sex workers, and management.

I am pleased to be here and thank you for the opportunity to address the justice committee about an issue to which I have devoted much of the last two decades of my life.

As a researcher, I believe policy and law should consider the research evidence. However, given how in these committee hearings research on one population is being generalized to another, and given the number of questionable assertions being attributed to research, I thought it was important to start with a few comments on the need to be discerning consumers of research. This means examining the research methodology employed. Where does the sample come from? Who is included? Who is excluded? Was it rigorous and ethical? And who funded the research?

It also, rather obviously, is imperative that the research be applicable. For example, the situation in Germany and the Netherlands, where they have legalized some aspects of the sex industry, are irrelevant in evaluating decriminalization. Legalization and decriminalization, such as we see in New Zealand, are simply not the same thing; therefore, any conclusions drawn from one model about the other are simply spurious.

Today I would be delighted to discuss the large body of solid and relevant social science evidence demonstrating that criminalization increases sex workers' vulnerability to violence; however, time is short, so I will simply refer you to Justice Himel's helpful analysis of the research in this area and, in some cases, its lack of rigour.

I'm going to focus most of my remarks on the material or financial benefiting from sexual service provision that reintroduces the “living on the avails” provision struck down by the Supreme Court of Canada. I will be restricting my comments to the issue of adult sex workers.

Yesterday and today, we heard youth prostitution, trafficking, and adult sex work being casually conflated. This is frankly surprising if not disingenuous, given that the law criminalizing the procuring, living on the avails of youth, and human trafficking was neither challenged nor struck down. It means that laws around adult prostitution are being framed in relation to very distinct and separate issues, those of youth and trafficking.

Much of what I'm saying is coming from large, multi-site research on third parties in the sex industry. I have deposited my written submission and a copy of a report in which some of these points are more fully developed.

All too often, in the absence of solid empirical evidence, stereotypes based on stigmatic assumptions and fueled by ideology persist, and third parties are cavalierly denounced as pimps, exploiters, and profiteers. The evidence tells us it is much more complicated.

Research tells us that third parties are men, women, and people who are trans, and that they fulfill a range of roles. They are, for example, receptionists, brothel owners, worksite providers, drivers, security persons, and mentors. All of these persons, if they were providing services within the context of commercial enterprise, would be criminalized under Bill C-36. Of course, anyone providing advertising services to a sex worker would be criminalized under the provision prohibiting the advertising of sexual services.

Why would someone work with or for a third party? This is a particularly salient question in the face of the prevailing narrative of sex workers as exploited victims in need of state intervention or rescue. Sex workers told us that working as an independent—essentially running their own small business—was neither viable nor desirable for everyone. It necessitates skills, assets, knowledge, and labour.

Now, I'm not suggesting that third parties are not sometimes exploitative, abusive, and violent: this too is a reality. There are, of course, laws of general application that address the egregious behaviour generally associated with pimping: assault, forcible confinement, sexual assault, to name a few. There are also, of course, as previously mentioned, laws against procuring and living on the avails of a youth for underage prostitution and human trafficking.

What I am suggesting is that we need to move towards a reasoned and respectful approach that is not detrimental to sex workers, and the broad brush strokes of this law criminalizing virtually all third parties will have a very significant harmful impact on sex workers. I want to highlight just a few.

It will decrease the ability of sex workers to access those services of third parties that improve their safety and security, such things as screening, maintaining bad date lists, collecting and verifying personal information, providing a deterrent presence, and hiring on-site or on-call security persons.

It is truly perverse to suggest that sex workers would be safer and more secure if working in isolation. It will also decrease sex workers' access to in-call venues, which empirical evidence has shown to be safer environments in which to provide sexual services.

Although prostitution has been removed from the definition of bawdy house, as per the Supreme Court decision, individuals previously defined as keepers--owners, managers and staff--are recriminalized through the receiving financial and material benefit provision. This also has implications for street-based workers. Research has shown that the provision of indoor spaces for sex workers who solicit on the street reduces violence. As the Supreme Court justices noted, “for some prostitutes, particularly those who are destitute, safe houses such as Grandma's House may be critical“.

The broad criminalization of third parties proposed in Bill C-36 will push the sex industry further into the shadows where unfair labour practices have the potential to flourish. At the same time, labour site abuse is enabled when criminalization excludes sex workers from human and labour protection. This exclusion contrasts sharply with the safeguards and avenue of redress available to sex workers in New Zealand, where prostitution was decriminalized in 2003.

It will also diminish sex workers' access to the justice system and criminal justice redress. Quite simply, in a criminalized context sex workers are hesitant to turn to law enforcement for fear that they or their employer will be charged with prostitution-related offences. It will also criminalize sex workers as third parties.

The proposed receiving financial and material benefit provision is so broad that it will, like the living on the avails provision it replaces, certainly capture any sex workers who provide assistance to a third party. Any sex worker who answers the phone, books calls for an escort agency, locks up the massage parlour at the end of the night, or helps out another sex worker by renting her in-call location, would potentially be criminalized under Bill C-36.

Finally, the law endeavours to protect individuals, presumed to be women, from becoming or remaining sex workers. This legal paternalism hinges on the assumption that no reasonable person would wish to engage in sex work. As such, it reifies a profoundly judgmental image of sex workers working with or for third parties as deluded, incompetent social actors and bestows upon them a disempowering identity of hyper-vulnerable victims.

This is, of course, part of a larger discourse that draws on stigmatic assumptions to discredit and delegitimate sex workers as youth, as mentally ill, as drug addicted, or as simply unable to make the right choices. Then, paternalistically if somewhat illogically, frames criminal justice intervention as a reasonable pathway to salvation.

I started by speaking of the importance of evidence-based policy and have presented research findings on third parties. I want to take a few minutes to address some of the frictions I have seen in these committee hearings by speaking about logic and ethics.

We all agree that sex workers experience unacceptable levels of violence. Indeed, this is precisely the reason why Terri-Jean Bedford, Valerie Scott and Amy Libovitch challenged the prostitution laws in the first place. It does not, however, necessarily follow that violence is inherent to the sex industry and that risk cannot be mitigated. We need only compare the rates of violence, including the rates of fatal violence, between the street level that accounts for between 5% and 25% of the sex industry, and indoor work, where most sex work happens, to realize that context matters. Moreover, the fact that there is a risk of violence in any line of work does not mean we prohibit it completely. We ensure that workers have access to the laws, regulations and other protections that safeguard them from specific harms.

Yesterday the issue of choice emerged in a number of the panels. Of course, what constitutes choice is profoundly complex and subjective. It is disconcerting, however, when choice is reduced to a simple binary. Among other things, this erases the agency of social actors and negates the resilience of marginalized individuals operating in extremely challenging circumstances.

That said, it is certainly true that some sex workers would rather be working in other sectors of the economy and find themselves with severely restricted options. We would all agree that this is an unacceptable situation. It seems wholly illogical, however, to suggest that the solution is to remove the income-generating activity these women and men do have access to. One does not create options by taking them away. You most certainly do not create options by implementing a legal regime that puts people in harm's way.

I put forth that the solution is not found in criminal law at all but rather in anti-poverty initiatives and the provision of social, economic, and housing supports that deal with the underlying conditions that constrain personal and professional choices.

I'm almost finished.

Now on to morality, I implore you to listen to the organizations representing current sex workers who, in their submissions and presentations before this committee, are calling on you to abandon Bill C-36. Emily Symons told you this morning that sex workers have a voice. Please listen to them. Do not discredit, speak over, or endeavour to speak for them, but engage in a meaningful dialogue. Frankly, this is too important an issue and the implications too horrific to sacrifice the lives of sex workers on the altar of ideology.

I'm going to conclude—and I'm going to conclude quickly—by quoting an open letter released on June 27 by religious leaders in British Columbia. Most of the 34 signatories are ministers of the Anglican Church. They write:This is a moral issue. While we can debate the pros and cons of sex work in our Canadian society, and bring our religious beliefs to bear upon both sides of this question, we are all agreed that this proposed legislation does nothing to advance the welfare of sex workers and in fact, it increases the potential for dangerous situations. This is immoral.

July 8th, 2014 / 3:30 p.m.
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Conservative

The Chair Conservative Mike Wallace

Welcome to the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights, meeting number 37. It is televised.

Pursuant to the Order of Reference on Monday, June 16, 2014, we are resuming our consideration of Bill C-36, An Act to amend the Criminal Code in response to the Supreme Court of Canada decision in Attorney General of Canada v. Bedford and to make consequential amendments to other Acts.

I want to welcome our witnesses. First, I want to let the committee know that we will be stopping with about 10 to 15 minutes to spare in this meeting to go in camera. There was a question about future witnesses and those who had been invited. I want to inform the committee, after my consultations with the clerk, how we will proceed further from here.

As witnesses today, we have Professor Christine Bruckert, Department of Criminology, University of Ottawa. From the Canadian Women's Foundation, Diane Redsky and Barbara Gosse are here. From Pivot Legal Society, Elin Sigurdson and Kerry Porth are both here. By video conference from Regina, we have Ed and Linda Smith, a family appearing as one delegation. And from SIM Canada we have Mr. John Cassells, street youth specialist.

With that we'll start in the order presented. Professor you have the first 10 minutes.

July 8th, 2014 / 3 p.m.
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Conservative

The Chair Conservative Mike Wallace

Thank you very much.

Thank you for those questions and answers.

Thank you for being witnesses for this study on Bill C-36. We will continue looking at it further today, again tomorrow, and then on Thursday. We appreciate your input on this bill.

With that, we will adjourn for approximately half an hour.

July 8th, 2014 / 2:55 p.m.
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President, Native Women's Association of Canada

Michèle Audette

Over the last 20 years, regardless of the government's political affiliation, in the case of all bills to which amendments were being made, there was never enough time to discuss the issue of aboriginal women. The situation is the same when it comes to Bill C-36.

We have been developing an expertise in this field since 1974. We work with and for women. The two or three short hours we are spending with you are far from being sufficient. I think that you now have an opportunity to make the changes we are calling for.

When people are consulted, they have to understand what is happening. Today's topic of study must be addressed with aboriginal women in mind. Our organizations have to be provided with the tools they need to reflect on this and participate in round tables. In addition, individuals who are directly affected and the organizations that defend their interests must be able to make recommendations to you.

July 8th, 2014 / 2:55 p.m.
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Executive Director, London Abused Women's Centre

Megan Walker

It is a really important question, and what I would like to see is governments at all levels, and all parties, investing more in equality rights for women. That's the very reason we are all here advocating for the passage of Bill C-36, with the exception of those amendments we've proposed, because we believe it will promote equality rights for women.

July 8th, 2014 / 2:30 p.m.
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NDP

Ève Péclet NDP La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank the witnesses for joining us. Your presentations were all very interesting.

I would like to express a minor concern.

An amount of $20 million works out to $4 million a year. The Premier of Manitoba was saying yesterday that his province will receive slightly under $200,000 a year. We can all agree that under $200,000 a year for a province that spends $8 million to deal with prostitution is very little. I am sorry, but that's like a slap in the face.

My question is for Ms. Pate and Ms. Edwards.

Certain provisions of the Criminal Code already criminalize human trafficking. This is mentioned in section 279.01. As for exploitation, that is covered in subsections 279.04(1) and 279.04(2). Subsection 213(1), which was struck down by the Supreme Court, criminalizes the following, and I quote: “engaging in prostitution or of obtaining the sexual services of a prostitute”.

How will Bill C-36 improve the situation? Legislation on this issue already exists. Since yesterday, all the witnesses have been talking about how troubling the situation on the ground is. What will Bill C-36 add? How will it help women in these situations? Is the $20 million amount alone supposed to help them? What will change compared with the current situation?

July 8th, 2014 / 2:20 p.m.
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Liberal

Sean Casey Liberal Charlottetown, PE

Finally I'd be interested in your opinion on the intersection of Bill C-36 with the Gladue principles of the Supreme Court of Canada, in 1999.

Do you have an opinion as to whether there is a relationship between the two? What comment can you offer as to whether or not Bill C-36 pays respect to what the Supreme Court of Canada had to say in Gladue?

July 8th, 2014 / 2:15 p.m.
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Liberal

Sean Casey Liberal Charlottetown, PE

Do the legislative measures taken in Bill C-36 respect the declaration?

July 8th, 2014 / 2:10 p.m.
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Conservative

Joy Smith Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB

Thank you.

I have a question for NWAC, an association that I have great respect for. My son is in the RCMP and is married to an Ojibwa girl, and he speaks Ojibwa and Saulteaux actually. I've had a lot of interaction with the aboriginal population; my baby grandchildren are half and half.

Having said, I am very interested in your wise comment that it takes some time and you start to build and gain momentum. Do you feel as an organization that Bill C-36 is a really good first step to build that momentum going in the right direction? What are your feelings about it?

July 8th, 2014 / 1:55 p.m.
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NDP

Françoise Boivin NDP Gatineau, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank all of you for your presentations. They were very insightful.

This is really not a clear-cut issue. As it is often said, it's not always easy to try to eradicate prostitution and eliminate this image of abused women. That's not easy to do when it comes to conjugal violence, or when it comes to poverty and major pay inequities.

I listened to your presentation, Ms. Audet, and you brought up some extremely worrisome statistics. To my mind, prostitution is an important element, but it is only one of many injustices against aboriginal women. I agree that we occasionally need to start somewhere, and that is probably what you will tell me. However, the problem has to be resolved in the right way. It has to be done logically.

It's important for us to hear you express your opinion on this topic perhaps even more strongly. I know that you all support the Nordic model. It would be important for you to let the Conservative government know that significant social measures need to be implemented for the Nordic model to work.

I know you think that Bill C-36 is a good start. However, I think we will hit a brick wall if we fail to align those two aspects.

I will use your vocabulary to avoid reopening the debate with Ms. Walker, with whom I love arguing. Let's just say I don't have enough time for debate this afternoon.

If prostitutes are victims, why are they being criminalized? It appears that the Conservatives are not accepting amendments to fully decriminalize them, as Ms. Pate explained. So here is my question for all of you. Do you still support Bill C-36?

I want you to send a strong message, since your current message is not very strong, despite all the respect and admiration I have for each and every one of you.

I know how our Conservative friends work. They will say that everyone congratulated them for allocating $20 million. That's what I understand from your comments. You have only one small concern. Can we, as women, stand firm? If that's what we are talking about, can we say the following:

Put your money where your mouth is.

That $20 million is a joke. I would actually like to hear what you have to say about this.

If no commitment has been made regarding that $20 million by the end—so before we begin the clause-by-clause study—I would like to be able to hear from you.

Be consistent. If the women you say are victims are still being criminalized, I ask you not to support Bill C-36. Help us help you if you want us to amend this bill. If you fail to do so, once you are no longer before us and we are conducting the clause-by-clause study, here is what we will hear:

“Hey, everybody said we're awesome.” No. That's why I want to know, from the people who support the bill, but not support it that much.... So the ball is in your camp.

Kim, I want to know if you still support it if they don't amend it in the sense of what you said, if $20 million is still there. It's an easy yes or no, please.

July 8th, 2014 / 1:50 p.m.
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Deborah Kilroy Chief Executive Officer and Legal Counsel, Sisters Inside

Thank you, Chair.

Before I speak today, I do want to acknowledge that we are on traditional land of aboriginal people, not only here in New York City, but where you are. I reside on stolen Ngooloon Pul land, which is south of Brisbane, in Queensland, Australia.

It's important for me to acknowledge the first peoples of our countries where we travel, and acknowledge the colonization that has occurred and the impact of such colonization, as we see it played out when we walk through the prison gates of our women's prisons, children's prisons, men's prisons. The impact of that colonization has violated and abused aboriginal people—the first peoples. I want to acknowledge that history.

Thank you for allowing me to speak today and contribute.

The hearings of the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights on Bill C-36 have had evidence presented and media reports that have been very divisive, even to the extent, particularly in social media, where there have been comments that have been dismissive and harmful to women with lived experience in the prostitution industry and those who take in opposing views from others.

This conversation and debate needs to be respectful and not abusive. I encourage those who want to take sides to find some common ground. Who I'm talking about and for are women who are the most disadvantaged women of all. They are not women who come from a class who think they are making specific choices, but women who are forced into the prostitution industry because they have no other choice. It's the only way they're surviving. We need to be respectful in our conversations.

We would all agree that stopping violence against women and girls is fundamental. That's where our starting point has to be, to ensure that violence against women and girls is eradicated and equality for all women and girls is ensured.

How do we get there? Some say “more legal sanctions” and some say “no legal sanctions”. The reality is that we already have laws in all countries around the world to address violence against women and girls, and we know that violence is continually perpetrated against women and girls daily around the world. We don't argue, debate, lobby to decriminalize these acts of violence against women and girls, and we don't demand that the violators are not held accountable. That would be unthinkable.

So why do we argue to decriminalize the acts of violence experienced by women and girls who are violated in the prostitution industry? Women must have avenues to hold men accountable who violate them. It is then the woman's choice to report or not, but they have a choice. Total decriminalization gives women and girls no choice.

As a woman I spoke to recently, a woman who has been bought and sold throughout her life—we were discussing Bill C-36—said to me, “If you take away a woman's right to hold men accountable, it's the same as taking away a woman's right to report any form of abuse”.

Free market capitalism is not the answer and will not stop violence against women and girls. Prostitution relies on and enforces inequality and disadvantage. The gendered nature of the prostitution industry is in fact evidence that prostitution is a practice of inequality. Legalized prostitution is government-sanctioned abuse of women and girls, and violates their rights to equality and safety.

Aboriginal peoples are the most exploited peoples in the world. If we decriminalize the prostitution industry, we will ensure that aboriginal women and girls are even more vulnerable to prostitution and trafficking. The violence that aboriginal women in Canada experience is parallel to the violence that aboriginal women experience in Australia. We want more for aboriginal women.

We want more for all women. Prostituting women does not make us equal. It consigns us to poverty, psychological and physical trauma, verbal and sexual abuse, and high rates of homicide.

Violence against women and girls must stop.

I wanted to be brief and make the statements I've made to influence you to ensure that women and girls are not criminalized in this bill in any form, especially women and girls who are the most disadvantaged in your country. They need support and social services. And I would agree with other speakers that more money needs to be provided for social services for women who are disadvantaged, so they do have access to other income, jobs, housing, education, and to health. This is fundamental.

In conclusion, I'd like to dedicate my evidence today to a dear friend, who, while I've been away travelling on this Churchill Fellowship, was found beaten and murdered a few weeks ago. She was a woman who was bought and sold regularly.

So we are talking about women who are in the darkest places, and who are being abused, and who are being killed. This needs to be addressed. We need to not decriminalize. We need to hold men, pimps, johns accountable for their violation of women. We are not commodities, we are human beings, and we deserve to be treated as such.

Violence against women and girls must stop. Women's and girls' lives are too valuable to me, and hopefully our lives—women's lives, girls' lives—are valuable to you too.

Thank you.

July 8th, 2014 / 1:35 p.m.
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Kim Pate Executive Director, Canadian Association of Elizabeth Fry Societies

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I want to start also by acknowledging the traditional territory on which I am currently, and on which you are meeting. As most of you know, I normally reside on Algonquin territory—right where you are—and this issue is very much linked to, as you already heard from our colleagues at the Native Women's Association of Canada, the ongoing impact of colonization, in particular on our indigenous women.

I have worked for the past 30 years, first with young people, then with men, and for almost 23 years now with this organization, with women who have been marginalized, victimized, criminalized, and institutionalized. It's work that has brought me every year in contact with this issue. Even though my life's work was not working with those involved in prostitution, in essence it has become thus. Through this period, I have lived with, worked with, and walked with young people, men, and women who have been prostituted and who have been criminalized largely for their involvement as individuals who are being paid for sex.

This, to me, is a fundamental equality issue. It's a fundamental issue also of violence against women.

As you know, throughout the country we are working on everything from early intervention programs with young people and families to prisons and exiting; and in mental health settings; and with homeless and addicted individuals with mental health issues. Throughout this period, our organization has worked to try to challenge both the victimization of women and their criminalization. We see this move to decriminalize women as fundamental to women's equality. We also see it as fundamental to women's equality that violence against women continues to be addressed.

It's not in my lifetime that women stopped being the property of the men who married them or who fathered them, but it is in my lifetime, my working lifetime, that husbands—as has already been mentioned by our colleague from the London rape crisis centre—were told they could no longer rape women. I think it is high time that we now say it is not okay for men to buy and sell women and children in this country. That part of this legislation we think is an important step forward. But without adequate social services, economic services, and legal supports and services, a law alone will not make women equal; nor will it end violence against women; nor will it expand the choices that are available to them.

I won't repeat some of what has already been raised by individuals on this panel before us, but one of the issues raised is that this bill will not succeed in a charter analysis. In fact, the charter does not protect, nor should it protect, the right of men to buy women for sex, nor should it protect the rights of individuals who seek to profit from the exploitation of women and children.

The provisions of Bill C-36 that would criminalize women, however, we do not support. We certainly would like to suggest to the committee that those provisions that involve any component of criminalizing women, whether it be for advertising or for being involved in street prostitution, be removed from the bill. We see that law and public policies, as well as other economic and social equality issues, need to be developed in order to ensure that the majority of women and children who are involved in prostitution because they have little or no other choice are provided with real options to exit.

You know, one of the challenges I've heard many times is that there are scientific reports that in fact there is no harm created by the prostitution industry. In fact, we know from countless other approaches, whether it be the challenges historically with violence against women, that in fact that kind of lobbying arguing there is lack of harm, when in fact the evidence is blatantly there to the contrary.... In fact, those who have argued, in my experience, both privately and publicly, have in other contexts understood and recognized and acknowledged the implicit harm and violence faced by those involved in prostitution.

In summary, regarding some of our concerns and what we would like to see the focus on, we would like to see an overarching description that just because prostitution has been widespread, it should not be accepted as inevitable. We believe that the 2005 trafficking provisions put in place are not sufficient and that those could be shorn up. We believe that the new offence of selling sexual services in a public place where a young person might be present or might be reasonably expected to be present should be removed. We see that as a particular concern for the women with whom we work, in particular indigenous women, poor women, women with addictions, and women with mental health issues. We see it as absolutely inconsistent with the notion of decriminalizing women within this context.

We also have concerns about will happen to those women who are forced to prostitute themselves within their own homes. Our view is that even though many of the women we work with have been criminalized, many of them also are struggling to support their families and children with limited options, and they should not be criminalized because they have those limited options. Some of these provisions I think also risk further criminalizing women.

We also are extremely concerned that although moneys are being earmarked—$20 million—that is precious little when we look at the overall need for things like guaranteed liveable incomes, adequate and affordable housing, adequate and affordable child care, alcohol and drug treatment options, more rape crisis shelters and women's centres. We feel very much that this bill will be ineffective if, in fact, those resources are not also put in place. To not have those resources in place means to actually relegate women further to the margins and provide them with even fewer options to exit, for those who wish to exit. Our experience has been that many women while they're in the trade, although they will be characterized as having chosen that, when they're provided with options to exit do.

The other piece, and one of the challenges for our organization, is that we see very clearly that there is a need to ensure there are adequate supports for women in order for them to exit prostitution. One of the realities is that we also need some fundamental education about what is and is not legal at the moment, regardless of what the law is now. We have been increasingly concerned, and in fact have taken a very strong position on this issue as of 2008, in large part because we started to see women who were being criminalized who believed that men were not only just entitled to buy and sell sex from them, but they were entitled to buy and sell the right to degrade them. We have far too many examples of some of the most disadvantaged and desperate women facing some of the most brutalizing and worse conditions.

The examples of how many women Pickton was able to pick up and some of the work that's been done in the Downtown Eastside have shown that men who could afford to purchase sex from much more expensive services, including escorts and destination brothels in other countries, were not choosing to do so because they were actually seeking out some of the most marginalized and desperate individual women to buy the right to abuse them. There is no right, obviously, but they were seeking to buy women to in fact abuse and degrade them. As some of you know, there are many examples of situations where men have beaten and obviously killed women. There's also evidence that that is, in fact, part of what gets promoted by an industry that is encouraged to be seen as legalized and decriminalized.

Finally I would say that we do not support any provision that calls for mandatory minimum sentences of any sort. We do not see that as necessary. We see as necessary the naming of the behaviour as criminal and the progressive education and added supports and services that need to be put in place so women and children are not put at risk and in situations of increasing disadvantage.

I look forward to the questions from the committee.

I'd also like to take the opportunity to introduce my colleague, Deborah Kilroy. I know she is incredibly humble and never introduces herself and is not known to many of you, but she is here, from Sisters Inside. We happen to be in meetings here in New York together. She's here on a Churchill Fellowship. Some of you met with her when she was in Canada and went across the country. She has been through the United States as well, looking at alternatives to incarceration, in particular for women and racialized women.

What you may not know is that she's a women who also has lived experience. I've known and worked with her for almost two decades now. In addition to having that lived experience, she started an organization called Sisters Inside, in Australia, to work with women who were exiting all kinds of precarious situations, including prison, violent situations, prostitution, and being on the street. She is now a lawyer and runs a law firm as well, out of Sisters Inside.

She has been awarded the highest human rights award in her country, the Australian Human Rights Medal, as well as the Order of Australia. She has also completed postgraduate work in forensic mental health, and in fact was the impetus for my doing some of that work.

Mr. Chair, I don't want to supplant your role, but I wanted to say a few words about Deborah Kilroy before she spoke.

July 8th, 2014 / 1:05 p.m.
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Megan Walker Executive Director, London Abused Women's Centre

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

I would first of all like to thank all of you for the kind invitation to attend today. In particular, I'd like to acknowledge that you do have an incredible justice department. I'd particularly thank Ken Bednarek, Nancy Baker, and François Délisle for their kind assistance in helping us through this process. MP Joy Smith has been a great advocate for us, and we appreciate her as well as her executive assistant, Joel Oosterman.

I will be making reference to statistics. Those references can be found in our brief, which you will all have.

The London Abused Women's Centre provides advocacy, counselling, and support to abused women, and has been doing that for the last 36 years. During our last fiscal year, we served approximately 3,300 women and girls over the age of 12. Approximately 10% of the women and girls we serve have disclosed that they were at one time in prostitution. We do provide them with exit supports. Those supports are obviously directed by the women themselves.

We have heard that sex workers have not been consulted. I think that needs to be addressed, because in fact we do know that prostituted women and survivors have been consulted. In fact, many of the women we have served were part of the survey that was online, and in addition participated in a postcard project that we initiated at the London Abused Women's Centre along with EVE and Sex Trade 101. Postcards were sent out across the country, and 10,000 of those were sent back to MP Joy Smith.

I do want to acknowledge the incredible courage of women in prostitution and survivors in speaking out in favour of Bill C-36. It does take a lot of courage to come and speak out.

I've heard here today and yesterday, and also in the past, that prostitution has always been around. I'd like to address that, because so too have domestic violence, rape, harassment, stalking, and even murder, but we don't just say that these things have always been here and as a result we'll just throw up our hands and do nothing about them. In fact we work to change those scenarios for vulnerable people.

One thing that has always excited me has been the importance of public education and awareness campaigns and the effectiveness of those. We don't need to look much further than the effectiveness of such public awareness campaigns as MADD Canada and at how effective those have been in changing the attitudes of Canadians about impaired driving. I think we can do that with prostitution as well.

Through our work at the London Abused Women's Centre, we have seen a strong link between domestic violence and prostitution. In fact many of the prostituted women who come to see us report that their intimate partners are also their pimps. It is a coercive, controlling, and abusive relationship. The tactics that are utilized by a woman's partner and pimp, in that combined role, add to the complexities of their lives. We need to recognize that relationship in order to understand the issues and the realities faced by these women.

We've also heard a lot about how prostitution is work and should be considered legitimate employment. Catharine MacKinnon, a feminist and a legal scholar, has often stated the following:

...in an unequal world, a law against men purchasing women is called for together with no law against the people, mainly women, being bought for sexual use: “ending prostitution by ending the demand for it is what sex equality under the law would look like.”

I think we need to remember that as we go through some of your deliberations. Prostitution is fundamentally men's violence against women. Although we do recognize that there are some men in prostitution, overwhelmingly it is men who are buying women, and women who are being prostituted.

Prostitution is a human rights violation. Legitimizing prostitution as work normalizes this as an employment option, and it ignores the link between prostitution and sex trafficking. It sanctions the inequality of women and girls, and it increases the demand by promoting social acceptance of sexual exploitation.

For many years, the Province of Ontario has held a program called “take our kids to work day”. It's for grade 9 students who are about age 14, who have the opportunity to go and explore employment options of their parents. I can't imagine taking a 14-year-old girl to work that day with their mother in prostitution, nor can I imagine a father taking their child to work and having him say, “Hey, son, it's lunchtime; we're off to buy sex from a woman”. These are not options that should be made available to children or women.

The London Abused Women's Centre does not recognize prostitution or sex trafficking as work. We refer to this as “prostituted women” or “women in prostitution”. I would ask that today you respect that language when you are addressing questions to me or any of the panellists.

We've also heard that prostitution is consensual sex between adults. Fundamentally, the London Abused Women's Centre disagrees with this statement.

There's an infamous quote by former prime minister Pierre Trudeau that's often used to support this message, that “There's no place for the state in the bedrooms of the nation”. That's from 1969. That quote is not relevant today in the prostitution discussion, or in most discussions today. In fact, Trudeau himself knew that the state had a place in the bedrooms of the nation when he passed Bill C-127, making sexual assault against one's wife an offence. He was prime minister of the day when that happened, in 1983, and it was his government that initiated and passed that bill.

We've heard many times that women enter prostitution as children. The Canadian Women's Foundation reports, through consultations with 260 Canadian organizations and 160 survivors of sex trafficking, that many girls in Canada are first trafficked into forced prostitution when they are 13 years old. I think we can all agree that children are too young to consent. If we follow that, then, a child of 17 or younger who turns 18 cannot all of a sudden be a consenting adult given their background as children in prostitution.

We often hear about power imbalances between adults in positions of power, like coaches, for instance, or teachers, who lure children into sexual relationships with them. We're appalled as a society when these things happen. How is it, then, that those same teachers or coaches can buy youngsters—young women who are 20 or 21 years of age—and because all of a sudden they're paying to have sex with these young women, it's consent? It's the exact same thing as those teachers and coaches luring those young women without paying them.

We've heard a lot about public communication for the purpose of prostitution and how it's important for prostituted women to be able to have that sense of security. Well, that is a false sense of security. The prostituted women we work with us tell us that no amount of communication with a john will make their lives safer. In fact, they often are given only 5 or 10 minutes—or even at the outset 30 minutes—to communicate with a john. At that point, really, there's no opportunity to interview properly for safety. Prostitution, as we know from the government's preamble, is inherently violent and dangerous, and it is johns and pimps who place the lives of women in danger.

We believe that Bill C-36 is very powerful in its preamble. We believe that if you look at the New Zealand model, which has been much touted, it promotes increased prostitution, increased numbers of children being promoted for prostitution. We know that it puts women into unfortunate situations of underground prostitution because they don't have to be regulated in their homes where there are fewer than four women. We know the prostitution collective in New Zealand has reported, in Christchurch, two women dead in a six-month period of time, murdered by johns, and increased violence—147 women violated brutally. When you compare the model they are promoting, I would suggest that is exactly the reason we don't want that model in Canada.

There are three recommendations that I would make to you with respect to Bill C-36.

One is that we would like to see women decriminalized in all situations. We know johns and pimps are criminalized under all circumstances, and in fact face additional sanctions when purchasing women where they ought to know there are children. I think that is enough of a deterrent. We want to end demand, and by ending demand it will allow prostituted women to exit. I think criminalizing women is inconsistent with your preamble. I also know from running exit programs that criminalizing women, detaining women, or arresting women are barriers to exiting.

I would also suggest that as much as I am grateful for the funding of $20 million over four or five years, that you give some consideration to increasing that funding. As we place that funding across the country, it may not be sufficient to provide women with the provisions they need to exit safely.

Finally, I would like to address an issue around torture—this is 30 seconds, Mr. Chairman, and I appreciate it. The Criminal Code, section 269.1, currently defines torture as “any act or omission by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person”. Unfortunately, it is specific only to officials. We would suggest to you that prostitution is torture in every sense of the word, and we would ask that you amend that clause by stating every person, not just officials, would be held criminally responsible for torture.

I appreciate the extra time you have given me.

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

July 8th, 2014 / 1 p.m.
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Conservative

The Chair Conservative Mike Wallace

Very good.

Is everyone good? Okay.

Let's go on to today's witnesses for our second panel on Bill C-36. We are actually waiting for two folks, and I'm hoping they will arrive.

From the London Abused Women's Centre, we have Megan Walker, the executive director. From Rising Angels, we have Katarina MacLeod, by video conference. There are two people at the same location, though they're two individual presentations. From the Canadian Association of Elizabeth Fry Societies, we have Kim Pate. And from Sisters Inside, we have Deborah Kilroy, chief executive officer and legal counsel.

We'll have the witnesses who are here with us first. Then if our other witnesses join us, we'll introduce them appropriately.

Our first witness, with 10 minutes, is from the London Abused Women's Centre.

The floor is yours.

July 8th, 2014 / 1 p.m.
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Conservative

The Chair Conservative Mike Wallace

Ladies and gentlemen, I call to order meeting number 36 of the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights.

We are here as per the order of reference of Monday, June 16, 2014, for Bill C-36, An Act to amend the Criminal Code in response to the Supreme Court of Canada decision in Attorney General of Canada v. Bedford and to make consequential amendments to other Acts.

Madame Boivin, before the meeting started you approached me about speaking. I'll turn the floor over to you, and then we'll get to the introductions of the witnesses.

July 8th, 2014 / 11:20 a.m.
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Chief of Police, Calgary Police Service

Chief Rick Hanson

I would have to say no. There hasn't been a comprehensive, integrated approach to address this issue like we have with so many other issues that used to be deemed to be criminal issues. Now with the focus on prostitution, I think it's the time to start to coordinate those services in a way that they act in the best interest of the sex worker. Because I can tell you that in my personal experience, from our officers dealing with young girls, young ladies, who become addicted to drugs for the sole purpose of then being manipulated into prostitution, issues of mental illness that are undiagnosed, and again there's an issue around self-medication, it will take a far more coordinated, collaborative approach to address the issue. The fact that we finally have this on the national agenda is going to be able to provide an opportunity to effectively address this, just as Mr. Bota said. I was fascinated by Mr. Bota's comments.

That's what it takes. As with anything else, it requires a made-in-Canada solution, and I think what Bill C-36 does is provide a made-in-Canada solution that may be different from elsewhere, but provides those collaborative approaches that have proven so successful in many jurisdictions in combatting homelessness, which is drug addiction and mental illness.... There is even the fact that there are criminals in our prisons and jails who are undiagnosed as mentally ill and addicted. We're punishing them because they support themselves through crime, but we're ignoring the real, foundational issues.

I look at this as being finally an opportunity to put what is a serious issue on the national agenda and to actually put the resources and efforts into addressing this instead of little band-aids, which is all I've seen in 39 and a half years of policing.

July 8th, 2014 / 11:10 a.m.
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Conservative

David Wilks Conservative Kootenay—Columbia, BC

So under the new act that we are proposing, it will be a strict summary conviction offence for those who are caught communicating in a public place.

I'm curious to ask you, from the perspective of that new offence under this Bill C-36, a question that is twofold. One is that as the police are normally the first point of contact in a lot of instances under this type of investigation, I want you to take me through the discretionary powers of a police officer when it comes to this type of an offence. What they try to do at all costs, in my opinion, is rather than sending the sex worker to jail, they truly want to give this person help. So I want to hear from you about what the discretionary powers of the police officer are.

The second part of that is, because it's summary conviction and there are no fingerprints and no photograph, does that give power to the police to use that discretionary power?

July 8th, 2014 / 10:35 a.m.
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Program Director, BridgeNorth

Casandra Diamond

Yes. I still have hope in Bill C-36.

This is a hard-working bill, in fact. We can't throw out 95% of its benefits for the 5%, but what we can do right now, what you guys can do, is really look at it, take it and turn it inside out and flip it around to figure it out. That's why I'm talking about equality, and I think we are talking about the same thing.

When we're talking about equality, we are addressing poverty. We are addressing the systematic issues and abuses or scenarios of life that keep women involved in sex for hire.

When we look at Bill C-36, for example—

July 8th, 2014 / 10:30 a.m.
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NDP

Françoise Boivin NDP Gatineau, QC

I get your point. Thank you. Time is of the essence.

You've opened the door for me, in a sense, and for the other members of the panel, in terms of one of the key successes of the Swedish model being the fact that it was in parallel, at the same time, to very strong social democratic measures.

My question is for Ms. Diamond.

I agree with you. A preamble is very important. It gives you the story that you're going to read.

I found there were things missing. It might be a start, but there are things missing. For me, that's where it gave me the impression of what the law from the government was all about. What was missing, and I don't know if you agree, is that we should also in the preamble address the questions of poverty, of housing conditions, health care needs, and other social measures. That would have given me the impression that we wanted to address everything.

At the same time, there's the fact that everybody on every side of the equation believes that at no time should the prostitute be criminalized in any consideration. The fact that it is.... With the fact that the Minister of Justice yesterday said to us that it's an intrinsic part of the bill to protect communities, I didn't sense, and I'm not quite sure and convinced, that we'll be able to amend it.

I had long discussions with members from the audience at the end of the day yesterday. They were saying, we're counting on you to amend it. We'll try very hard, but honestly, if it's part of the essence of the bill, I do not have much hope.

For you, is your support of Bill C-36 still there, even if we cannot amend it and we still criminalize prostitutes, sex workers, at the end of the day?

July 8th, 2014 / 10:05 a.m.
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Robyn Maynard Spokesperson and Outreach Worker, Stella, l'amie de Maimie

Thank you.

My name is Robyn Maynard and I'm an outreach worker at Stella. Stella is sex-worker led, a “by and for” sex worker organization. We offer service and advocacy to Montreal-based sex workers. Stella has been around since 1995.

Because there were a few comments levelled yesterday really talking about how sex workers' organizations push people to stay in the industry, I did want to address that. I think that is something that is not accurate at all about the way we work. We have a listening line. We have a drop-in centre. We do daily street-based outreach. Some of that—at least two shifts a week—are with nurses from different community organizations because sex workers are often isolated in the way that they work from the legal system and they face a lot of stigma. We work specifically with street nurses doing outreach.

We also do regular workplace visits to escort agencies, to massage parlours, to dance clubs. We have a medical clinic, and we also have an anti-violence program in which we support sex workers who are in violent situations whether that be with a boyfriend, an abusive working situation, or anything like that, and based on their own defined needs, we'll really help to support them in that violent situation. Sometimes that could mean coming forward against someone who committed an aggression against them. It can mean a variety of different things, but it's a really important project to us as well.

In 2012-13, we had 500 visits to our drop-in, answered 5,000 calls on our listening line, met thousands of sex workers in their workplaces, and accompanied almost 250 sex workers to health, legal, and social services.

The opinions that we have around the effects of the laws are really based on what we see on a day-to-day basis. I'm a street outreach worker. I'm often working until midnight on the main strolls where sex workers are working. We can really see the effects of the laws as they play out on sex workers. We talk to them on a daily basis.

The work that we do is important in the context of criminalization especially because sex workers face so much isolation and stigma and fear of outing themselves because of their fear of losing their children, losing their apartments. A lot of the accompaniments that we do are legal accompaniments because of that, because of criminalization and also because of the situations that people are facing because of their work being criminalized. A lot of the calls we get are around people who are afraid of being arrested.

We operate on principles of harm reduction, which is extremely important for us. There is a lot of talk about money going toward just exiting programs. Often there are sex workers who want to leave the sex industry, who should be supported. We often help people to write their resumés and things like that, but often also people just need basic legal information and help with youth protective services, just to understand the laws better, to have education around, say, hepatitis C or HIV prevention. There are many different needs that sex workers have beyond just the idea of exiting, and it's very important for us to be able to provide all of those.

Many sex workers will eventually go on to do other things, but Bill C-36 really does seem to be saying, “Get out of the sex industry or you'll make your work more dangerous, or potentially be arrested.” It does not actually provide other viable options at the same time. Our communities have diverse backgrounds and lives and working conditions, and there are many different needs that sex workers face. None of these are addressed by Bill C-36.

The Supreme Court of Canada struck down many provisions that criminalized the sex trade because the laws had the unintended consequence of endangering the lives of sex workers. That is why these laws were struck down. The decision was seen by many sex workers as a human rights victory because it was found that sex workers should not have to be unduly exposed to danger because of the criminal laws surrounding their work. Originally these laws took place in the name of combatting public nuisance. Now we are really seeing a re-creation, with many similar laws and going even further. Now it's under the name of protecting vulnerable communities, but these same laws that were used to combat public nuisance are really being brought back in to apply to sex workers again.

Living in a legal vacuum is dangerous and the danger is quantifiable. We know that for people living in a legal vacuum who are criminalized, the rates of murder and violence toward sex workers is abhorrent in Canada. The Supreme Court did find this directly related to the laws, so the laws are very important to sex workers' lives.

It's fine for any member of Parliament, any person living in Canada, to have the right to their own personal opinion on the sex industry and the morality of the sex industry, and whether or not we think it should exist and what we think it means, but imposing morality at the cost of human lives is not something that is acceptable.

What is the cost of passing laws trying to abolish the sex industry? The cost is extremely dangerous. Even if we look at trying to abolish what we see as a social harm, there are actual physical harms to people's physical safety and their actual lives are endangered by these same laws that try to abolish the sex industry.

We can look to Sweden and Norway, countries that have brought in what people often call the Nordic model, where the purchase of sexual services has been criminalized. The National Council for Crime Prevention, the Swedish National Board of Health and Social Welfare, and the Swedish National Police Board have reported that sex industry activity has not dwindled but has actually shifted venues in order to evade police detection, and has actually increased the dangers faced by sex workers.

There is more in the brief, so I won't focus too much on this. You can actually see that in Norway, violence towards sex workers has actually increased. Evidence shows that sex workers who are homeless or substance-dependent are actually more dependent now on individual clients. Here in Canada, though, we actually already have a lot of evidence that shows us what happens when we criminalize sex workers working on the street and also when we criminalize the purchase of sex.

Emily mentioned that the police in Ottawa for a while now have actually not been criminalizing sex workers on the streets. That same thing has been true in Vancouver, as was just documented. It's also been true, from what I've been seeing, in Montreal. We've seen a lot fewer arrests of sex workers working on the streets, but the client sweeps haven't stopped and police posing undercover hasn't stopped. We also see that violence has not stopped in this way. This model has already been imposed and applied. The police have already had this power and have been using it. It hasn't been working.

First, I just want to talk specifically about the law recriminalizing sex workers who work on the street in a public place where there could be minors, which is anywhere. This one is very scary. As I was saying, sex workers who have been working on the street this entire time have lately actually had a break from the fear of arrest, the fear of prison, and the fear of losing their children. For many women I've been talking to, they are terrified of this coming back and of having to all of a sudden face this threat again.

I really think that many people know very well what the dangers are of criminalizing sex workers on the street, but I think less attention has been paid to just the ability of criminalizing client-worker interactions. These have unambiguously been shown to endanger sex workers' lives and safety. Two different reports commissioned by the Canadian justice ministry, in 1989 and in 1994, really showed the direct link between the criminalization of sex workers' negotiations and ability to screen clients. They showed that this caused displacement and increased violence towards sex workers.

Even when I go out on a street work shift on, say, a Thursday night, when the police are extremely present, that keeps clients away. Sex workers just end up moving to alleys and to other parts of the city where there are fewer peers and other people around. They're still trying to seek clients, but this is becoming more and more difficult. We know that this kind of isolation is really putting people in danger.

In Montreal our bad clients and aggressors list receives more reports of violent incidents directly after the police do large-scale client sweeps. Over a three-month period during the massive client sweeps in 2001, Stella documented a threefold rise in violent incidents and a fivefold rise in incidents with a deadly weapon.

In Vancouver, where there is one of the most mediatized amounts of violence towards sex workers, the Vancouver Police Department had actually already only focused on arresting clients. A report that came out from the British Medical Journal Open and the Pivot Legal Society also found that sex workers were still exposed to danger, again because of this reduced screening time when they had to move to darker areas.

It's just that the displacement that comes from criminalizing client and sex worker negotiations, even if it's just on the side of the client, does put sex workers in danger. We really need to look at that more than the idea of what it means to criminalize the johns. If criminalizing the johns means that people are having to place themselves in danger, then we need to re-evaluate the point of that law. Justice Wally Oppal also reaffirms the harms caused by this criminalization in the report from the Missing Women Commission of Inquiry .

As well, because women of colour, indigenous women, and those who are substance-dependent are overrepresented at the street level, that does mean that these harms would be levelled at these groups at a larger rate than for other groups in society. That's something that we also need to think of—the most marginalized people and how they'll be affected by the laws.

Emily already discussed really well the harmful effects of Bill C-36 on sex workers who work indoors, but I do just want to mention, on this idea that still places where sex workers work indoors, like massage parlours and escort agencies, the ability for sex workers to be able to negotiate with their clients and the ability for sex workers to have condoms on site in these places. If these indoor locations are still criminalized, and are still trying to purposely avoid law enforcement because condoms can be used as evidence and things like this, we are really still putting sex workers at risk with this part of the law.

Again, the way that sex workers share their bad date list often is online. The safe practice of escorts to actually get the personal information from their client would be extremely difficult.

I have a quote by a sex worker we interviewed for a project called Stella Deboutte, which we haven't released yet, who says, “Because clients are scared and nervous, I think I lose business. One reason I work alone is that clients are often more afraid of arrest when we work in pairs, which essentially would make us more safe. But because the client has fears, I feel as though I have to kind of accommodate those fears and that those win out over my safety, essentially.”

What would a more positive law reform look like? I think we can see that these criminal laws are not the way to address the sex trade. They're really re-endangering sex workers, who have already been placed in undue danger for decades now and who really deserve something better. We already have laws against exploitation, robbery, extortion, bodily harm. Importantly, there are also specific criminal laws and laws in the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act on trafficking. UN Women has put out a statement specifically saying that if you treat sex work and trafficking as the same thing, instead of treating them as separate kinds of abuses, then you're putting sex workers at danger of human rights risks and trafficking victims are not being helped.

Can I have one more minute?

July 8th, 2014 / 9:50 a.m.
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Chief Rick Hanson Chief of Police, Calgary Police Service

Thank you very much, honourable members and guests. I very much appreciate the opportunity to present from the perspective of a police service. When I speak of police service, I'm talking particularly about the Calgary Police Service.

I want to start by providing a bit of context of what we face. I'll start with a story that relates to a mother who was raising, in her words, a beautiful intelligent daughter, who in elementary school was brilliant. She was a star of elementary school because when you're smart and pretty everybody loves you. Then, as she got into junior high school, being smart wasn't as cool, and by the time she hit high school she was beautiful but being smart got you no points.

In late high school, she went to a party—and this did not happen in Calgary but it ended in Calgary—and somebody offered her a joint. It's harmless, right? You hear about it all the time. She didn't know it was laced with crystal meth. She became addicted to crystal meth. She wound up working for an organized outlaw motorcycle gang in a downtown west coast city, where she was abused and working the streets and addicted. If you would have asked her, she would have said that she chose this life. It's what she wants.

Now, the mother tried to get assistance from other agencies, and she was told that when she hits rock bottom, she will come home; don't worry about it.

I would ask any parent in this room if you'd be prepared to accept that and let her continue to do that until she hits rock bottom. The sad part about this story from this perspective, from the starting point, is being the police service of jurisdiction where that mom, that family, comes to you and says they need help. “We need to extract our daughter from this. We know she's addicted. She knows she's being manipulated. She comes from a good family.” The police service of jurisdiction and the agencies involved in that area say you just have to wait until she hits rock bottom. Well, I come from a jurisdiction where I don't believe you have to succumb to that and wait for that.

The mother and some of her friends had to take extraordinary measures to remove her from the situation and deliver her to a place in Calgary where they have addictions treatment. I'll finish the story at the end of my presentation here.

The Calgary Police Service believes that Canada's public policy should be the complete abolition of prostitution, and passing Bill C-36 is required in order for us to reach this goal. It is our firm position that the purchasing of sexual services from an adult should be a criminal offence for the following reasons.

Research shows that many prostitutes were the victims of exploitation as children and youth, are currently the victims of exploitation, or are otherwise vulnerable to exploitation because of drug dependency, FASD, emotional problems or mental illness, or economic disadvantage. Prostitution, therefore, is not simply the delivery of sexual services for money or other consideration, but it is instead sexual exploitation.

There's a need to discourage sex tourism. We need to reduce the number of prostitutes and associated harms, reduce the demand for the sale of sexual services, detect and eliminate the human trafficking of persons, reduce the risk of violence and homicides, and address the overrepresentation of aboriginal women and children in prostitution. We need to eliminate the commodification of persons for sex, reduce and eliminate negative community impacts, reduce gender bias in our society, which is really important, and discourage that it's acceptable or normal to solicit the service of a prostitute.

Research and our working knowledge of the sex trade tells us that regardless of what regime, model, or laws are implemented, those who sell sex are exposed to violence, exploitation, degradation, and unpreventable harm. Sex trade workers are overrepresented by aboriginal people and youth, the mentally ill, and those suffering from addictions. The only safeguard for those trapped in the sex trade is removal and support.

We acknowledge that all efforts must be taken to not further victimize those trapped in the sex trade through criminal charges. Instead, apprehension powers should be used to remove sex trade workers from oppressive situations and connect them to counselling and support services. Canada should develop a national strategy to first reduce and ultimately eliminate prostitution.

Support services should aim to improve the lives of sex trade workers through initiatives that focus on prevention, education, intervention, and exit. To aid in the aim of this national strategy, law enforcement requires legislative authority to interdict and intervene in attempts to reduce the inherent harms associated with the sex trade, and to address the resultant community harm.

The legal regime in Canada should not discourage any prostitute who has been the victim of human trafficking, assault, sexual assault, robbery or other offences to be able to come forward and report the offence to police, or otherwise seek assistance, intervention, protection, or exit. In fact, in a report commissioned by the Home Office in the U.K. called “Shifting Sands: A Comparison of Prostitution Regimes Across Nine Countries”, the authors note, and I quote here:

We also found little strong evidence that different prostitution regimes affect willingness to report assaults. It seems more likely that enhanced reporting is the outcome of local climates of trust built between women who sell sex and state agencies/individuals/services.

I would also like to address the issue of community impact. Communities are negatively impacted by prostitution. These harms include a reduced perception of safety within communities; an increased perception of social disorder; public nuisances such as condoms and needles in public parks, parking lots, and sidewalks; increased noise and vehicle traffic; public sex; the unwanted sexual proposition of citizens; and public health concerns. Criminal law prohibitions will continue to be needed to control and reduce these harms. This is the experience of almost 40 years in policing, where we are, unfortunately, the ones who have to deal with the issue of strolls when they're in places that are frequented by the public.

Economically benefiting from prostitution, other than for those reasons mentioned in Bill C-36, should be a criminal offence. In order to meet the concerns expressed by the Supreme Court and others respecting the need to eliminate or reduce the exploitation of persons and to enhance the safety of prostitutes, Canada should work with provinces, municipalities, and social agencies to develop a national strategy to reduce and abolish prostitution and improve the lives of those affected through initiatives that focus on prevention, education, intervention, and exit.

Here I have to say that the $20 million, over five years, is woefully inadequate. If you were to bring that down to a provincial level, Alberta has roughly 10% of the population, or a little more, in Canada. This would mean that for a province like Alberta that would be $40,000 a year for the five years. If you divide that into Edmonton in the north and Calgary in the south, and the other jurisdictions, a place like Calgary, with a population of 1.25 million people, would be dealing with the social aspect of it with the addition of about $125,000 a year. It's woefully inadequate. If there's a commitment to deal with this in an effective way, then I think we have to look at the exit strategies and adequately resource them.

I want to say that over 40 years of policing for a number of years there was nothing I enjoyed better—-as I still do today—than walking into schools and talking to kids. In those 40 years I've never had a young kid come up to me and say, when I grow up I want to be a drug addict, a criminal, or a hooker. It never happens.

I want to also talk a little bit about human trafficking, and the fact that it's a $3-billion-a-year industry worldwide. Let us not pretend or ignore the fact that if Canada changes its course in this regard we will be a place where this becomes more and more prevalent. We can all beat our chests and wail about what happened in Nigeria with the kidnapping of almost 300 young school girls, but the reality is those girls are going to wind up sexually trafficked and could very well come to this country, like they go to other countries. We've visited Scandinavian countries to study the Nordic model. East European girls and those from Africa are disproportionately represented.

There are two other points I want to make. There's been the belief that somehow you can pick out serial killers. I can tell you from 40 years of policing and studying jurisdictions across North America where killers have done their thing, people like Jeffrey Dahmer or the Green River killer in Washington, you can't pick out a serial killer. You can't interview him and say, “That person is a serial killer”. They come across, they present like you or me until they get captured.

I just want to conclude with the story that I started with. This young girl was brought back to Calgary. She was put into a program for addictions, and it was a battle, but this woman today is a second-year medical school student. She is in medical school, second year. Yet had her parents not taken steps that technically they shouldn't have had to take, this young girl would be a woman on the streets and if interviewed today, she would say, “Of course, it's my choice. Of course, I'm here because I selected it.”

I'm not saying that in each and every case there aren't those who voluntarily choose it without being abused or having backgrounds of abuse. I'm not saying that, but our experience is that the vast majority of them have. All we're asking for is the legal authority to intervene in a way that allows us to target organized crime and johns, while using the law as an opportunity to extract and provide services for those who are the victims of prostitution, the service providers.

Thank you very much.

July 8th, 2014 / 9:40 a.m.
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Emily Symons Chair, Prostitutes of Ottawa-Gatineau Work Educate & Resist

Thank you.

My name is Emily Symons. I'm the chair of POWER, which stands for Prostitutes of Ottawa-Gatineau Work Educate and Resist. We are a sex worker-led organization founded in 2008, and we advocate for sex workers' human rights and labour rights. We envision a world in which people can freely choose to do sex work or to not do sex work and in which those who choose to do sex work are able to do so in safety and in dignity. We are completely unfunded and entirely volunteer-based. Our membership includes people of all genders working as escorts, erotic massage providers, street-based workers, erotic dancers, and webcam performers.

I'm here today to present the expertise of our membership on how Bill C-36 will impact the safety of sex workers. I would like to say that I believe we are all here today with the safety and well-being of sex workers at heart. I will say that sex workers are the experts, and sex workers know better than anyone else how these laws will impact their work and their safety. Sex workers who are currently working are also the ones who will directly experience the impacts of any new laws that are put forward. For this reason, we must privilege their voices and experiences.

The Himel decision and the decision that came down from the Supreme Court of Canada explicitly outlined the dangers of criminalizing street-based sex work as well as third parties. For this reason, I'll focus on the two sections of Bill C-36 that criminalize the purchase of sex and criminalize advertising. I would like to show how these laws will contribute to violence against sex workers.

I will start by discussing the criminalization of purchase of sex on the streets. This law, if it's put forward and becomes law, will replicate the same harms that we see under the communicating provision. We know from sex workers in Ottawa currently working on the streets that criminalizing the purchase of sex puts them at increased risk of violence.

I will say that there is a common misconception that sex workers don't have a voice and therefore other people must speak for them. In fact, sex workers can speak for themselves. Sex workers do speak for themselves. The issue is that we aren't listening.

In March 2014, POWER facilitated the women of the Oasis drop-in in Ottawa to participate in the government's online consultation. This is just one drop-in centre that POWER collaborates with. Twelve women who are currently working on the streets as sex workers participated. Their unedited responses are available on our website at powerottawa.ca. Much of what I speak about will be drawn from their experiences.

Criminalizing clients is not something new. In fact, Ottawa police have been enforcing the communicating law against clients, and not sex workers, for the last few years. We therefore already know the impact it has on sex workers working on the streets.

What we know from street-based sex workers is that criminalizing their clients means rushed negotiations. It's very important for a sex worker working on the streets to take the time to evaluate a client before jumping in his vehicle. This may include smelling his breath to see if there's alcohol, doing a scan of the interior of the vehicle, and checking their bad date list to see if he's on it. When clients fear being criminalized or the police are around, it's very difficult for sex workers to screen their clients. When clients are criminalized on the streets, this means they don't go to well-lit and well-populated areas to pick up sex workers. So in order for sex workers to access their clients, they are pushed into the shadows, into unlit and unpopulated areas. This puts them at increased risk of violence.

Sex workers working on the streets work in groups or in pairs in order to protect themselves. They can watch out for each other and take down licence plates. When sex workers' clients fear being criminalized, they don't approach sex workers working in groups or in pairs. They approach sex workers working alone.

So when we criminalize clients, we're essentially replicating the same harms of the communicating law in which sex workers don't take the time to screen their clients, they can't work in well-lit and well-populated areas, and they must work alone.

We also see that when we criminalize clients, we end up taking away a lot of the sex workers' good clients. They may move to a different part of the city to pick up sex workers where there's less policing. They may move indoors. When there are fewer and fewer clients, it becomes harder and harder for sex workers to say no. It's very important for a sex worker to be able to say no to a client and to know that there will probably be another one coming up soon. When you decrease the pool of clients, it becomes more difficult for sex workers to say no when they have bills to pay.

Sex workers also generally stay out until they have made the money that they need. They will have a certain amount in mind that they need to pay their rent or to buy their groceries for that week, and when the police are out arresting clients this means that sex workers are out on the streets for much longer in order to make the money they need. This puts them at increased risk of encountering a predator, and it can also increase tension with community members who are offended by the presence of a prostitute.

I will now discuss criminalizing the purchase of sex indoors. This will continue to undermine sex workers' ability to protect themselves. The key way that both independent sex workers and agencies protect sex workers is by requiring personal information from a client generally in the form of a phone number. So, if you were to go online where sex workers advertise, you will frequently see “no pay phones” and “no blocked calls”. This is because sex workers require personal information about their clients so that if something would happen, she has information to give the police. Now, she may not feel comfortable calling the police but this serves as a deterrent to the client because the client knows that if he commits a criminal act then she has his phone number to give the police.

What we see when clients fear criminalization is that they don't want to provide this information for screening, which makes it very difficult for sex workers working indoors to be safe.

When clients are criminalized sex workers don't feel comfortable calling the police. Sex workers rely on sex work to provide their income and to support themselves. Sex workers don't want the police to come and arrest their good clients and take away their income. Therefore, sex workers don't feel comfortable calling the police when they've experienced an assault because that could have their location of work targeted as a hot spot.

Clients are often the first to know when exploitation is taking place. In fact, here in Ottawa there was a situation where there were underage girls who were being forced into the sex industry. It was actually a client who facilitated getting her back home to her parents and facilitated the situation being reported to law enforcement.

When clients fear being criminalized, they don't want to report this exploitation to the police because they fear being arrested themselves.

I will now move on to talk about the criminalization of advertising.

What this will mean for sex workers is that sex workers will begin to advertise in code, both because of the ban on advertising and the ban on the criminalization of clients. So what this means is that sex workers will start to say things like, “It's $100 for a happy ending” or “It's 200 roses for my companionship for one hour”, without explicitly mentioning sexual services. This means that sex workers cannot post their restrictions—sexual acts they are not comfortable performing—and their safer sex requirements. If you go online today and look at advertisements of sex workers working indoors, you will see a list of acronyms. These acronyms represent the sexual acts that the sex worker is comfortable performing, the acts she is not comfortable performing, as well as her safer sex requirements.

Now, when sex workers start to advertise in code and can't explicitly discuss safer sex practices or what they are not comfortable performing, then this can lead to misunderstanding where the client can show up expecting something that she is not offering, which can be a very scary experience.

We know that the safest way to work as a sex worker is to work indoors. There is much less violence indoors than on the streets. Criminalizing advertising poses a significant barrier to sex workers being able to work indoors.

Places of advertisement like cerb.ca are about more than just advertising. They provide a “sex worker only” space where sex workers have their own board and can talk to each other. They can provide references about who the good clients are and they can also post “bad date” lists. There is an extensive “bad date” list on cerb.ca, which is probably the primary place sex workers advertise currently in Ottawa. There has been a lot of talk recently among sex workers in Ottawa about what we will have to do when the five years of the “bad date” list is taken down.

There is also a lot of talk about how the advertising isn't going to target sex workers because it's not going to be a criminal law to advertise your own sexual labour, but in fact, this law will criminalize sex workers. It's very common for sex workers to advertise duos, to offer two women with one client. If you go to sex workers' personal websites, you will often see a links page where sex workers post their friends, and these are the people they share references with. So they will call up their friend and say, “Hey, did you see Bob? Was he a good client?”

Sex workers will also frequently perform administrative tasks for each other for a fee, which can include renting an in-call location to see clients, or hiring someone else to do your advertising for you.

My understanding is that this law will criminalize sex workers advertising duos, criminalize sex workers advertising their friends, and it will criminalize sex workers performing administrative tasks for each other. These acts facilitate working collaboratively. Working collaboratively is safer. Performing in duos is safer, being in a group of two sex workers. Sharing a workspace is safer. Sharing bad date information and providing references are safer. This law will chip away at a sex worker's ability to work collaboratively.

I will finish by briefly talking about funding. I'm very disturbed to learn that only exiting services will be funded. What this tells me is that women who choose to exit prostitution are worthy of human rights, and women who don't wish to exit prostitution are unworthy of human rights.

Some of the services that benefit the safety and health of sex workers include having someone compile bad date lists for street-based sex workers and distributing them to sex workers; health services for sex workers; Grandma's House, which is a location to bring clients where there is supervision, and if a sex worker screams there is someone to intervene; outreach workers; and safer sex supplies. These are services that help to keep sex workers safe and healthy, and it's a shame that they won't be funded.

I'll finish by saying that Bill C-36 is irredeemable, and in all its parts it will put sex workers at increased risk of violence. We need to start from scratch, and we need to take the lead from New Zealand. We need to meaningfully engage with sex workers to develop a legal regime that prioritizes their health, safety, and well-being.

Thank you.

July 8th, 2014 / 9:30 a.m.
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Casandra Diamond Program Director, BridgeNorth

Honourable members of Parliament, justice and human rights dignitaries, thank you for the invitation to speak to this extremely important bill that will greatly impact the future of many of my friends, their children, and countless other women and children who are trapped in the prostitution industry.

Sexual exploitation is a human rights crisis for women and girls. The harm of sexual exploitation extends throughout our whole nation. It begins with the individual, extends to the community, and then to the country. Prostitution and trafficking restrict women's freedoms and citizenship rights. If women are treated as commodities, they are consigned to second-class citizenship. A country cannot be a true democracy if its citizens are treated as commodities, nor can a true democracy flourish when women who enter this lifestyle as a result of oppression or force are criminalized.

My name is Casandra Diamond. I am the director of a grassroots organization named BridgeNorth, a program of Grace Church Newmarket, that seeks to help trafficked and prostituted women understand their inherent value and dignity through mentoring and creating opportunities to gain healthy, full, and balanced lives.

I stand before you also as a survivor of the sex trade, echoing the experience of hundreds of women who cannot be here today. This is the perspective I'm speaking to you from.

Bill C-36 shows great promise with the preamble, an excellent framework, and the necessary perspective to replace the laws deemed unconstitutional by the Supreme Court. It was like medicine for my heart to read:

Whereas the Parliament of Canada has grave concerns about the exploitation that is inherent in prostitution and the risks of violence…; Whereas the Parliament of Canada recognizes the social harm caused by the objectification of the human body and the commodification of sexual activity; Whereas it is important to protect human dignity and the equality of all Canadians by discouraging prostitution, which has a disproportionate impact on women and children; Whereas it is important to denounce and prohibit the purchase of sexual services because it creates a demand for prostitution;….

That is real medicine and a prescription for healthy citizenship.

In the preamble, the Canadian government is sending a very clear message to its citizens that it wants safer communities for women and children and that prostitution is inherently violent and dangerous and a direct violation of the human rights of each person.

Speaking from a decade of experience in various capacities within the sex trade, I am intimately aware of the inherent dangers of prostitution, regardless of whether the trade occurs indoors or outdoors. If anything, working indoors offers even less choice to women. Unlike outdoor girls and women who are able to scan, see, and talk to a client before brokering a deal, an indoor woman or girl is lined up and then paraded before being selected by the client. She does not have a choice to say no. Plying the trade indoors often means more pimp control, with no place for the person to turn to for help.

Concealing prostitution behind doors is more socially accepted because it permits society to ignore the brutal reality that people are being destroyed by it. It allows people to romanticize the idea of prostitution, and to be blind to the degrading and dehumanizing treatment of women by the criminals who profit from it. The turning of the head of ordinary citizens helps to reinforce the power of the industry in coercing women. This makes them perfect prey for highly organized and deadly organizations to take over their lives. There is no such thing as a safe place to engage in prostitution.

Prostitution in Canada today is organized by criminals; namely, the mafias and gangs that operate the global underground economy, dealing for profit in drug and human trafficking. In my 10 years of experience, I have never not worked for organized crime and gangs.

Highly organized groups have infiltrated essential social systems, such as licensing and government agencies and police forces, where they have built influential relationships with officials within these systems. These hidden power structures keep prostituted women and girls acutely vulnerable to continued abuse and exploitation.

Decriminalizing prostitution is not the answer and will not wrestle this lucrative globalized industry out of the clutches of organized crime. As a matter of fact, it will only make it easier for worldwide criminal networks—many already well-established in Canada—to increase and expand their hold on trading in women's bodies. By instituting and enforcing Bill C-36 with an amendment to decriminalize women in prostitution, Canada will protect itself from becoming a destination of choice for organized crime and sex tourism.

In attempting to craft laws to end this exploitation, Bill C-36 must address these issues and consider that criminalizing women is a matter of revictimizing the victim.

Some people talk about prostitution as employment, as if it were a job like any other. It isn't. Legitimate employment has laws against sexual harassment and discrimination. It does not allow hiring a woman based solely on her breast size or hair colour or weight. Our labour laws have in place standards that protect us from such practices because they are discriminatory, unhealthy, and misaligned with society's views and values. In a regular job, I am not forced to willingly and knowingly subject myself to numerous sexually transmitted infections, life-threatening diseases, and violence.

There is a lot of talk about harm reduction. Harm reduction suggests that any harm done is minor and can easily be treated or healed. However, harm minimization does not eliminate harm, and that should be our ultimate goal. There is overwhelming evidence to show that PTSD, dissociation, and depression are rampant among women in prostitution. This would not be acceptable in other jobs. We must try to not only reduce harm but to eliminate it.

I am encouraged that Bill C-36 speaks to both of these issues in that it provides funding for exit strategies for women plying the sex trade and safe havens for women who experience violence or need medical care while involved in the sex trade. The funding of $20 million tells us how important the government believes this issue is, and I'm very thankful for that. However, continued financial backing will be imperative to achieving the desired results that this hard-working bill is seeking.

Bill C-36 gives us a chance to name prostitution for what it is, and it is an extreme manifestation of exploitation and violence against women. By decriminalizing the prostituted, those who are primarily forced into prostitution by desperation or are direct victims of human trafficking and sex slavery, there is public recognition that, by and large, women in the trade are not exercising free will and there is no criminal intent on their part.

By criminalizing those who are exercising control over the prostituted for their own financial gain, the harm to the prostituted is recognized and validated. To be clear, many women in the middle positions of these power hierarchies are themselves victims of coercion and should not be included in this criminalized group. By criminalizing the johns, the law recognizes that men who solicit women for services are willingly, albeit perhaps unknowingly, engaging with organized crime to coerce and hold women in sex slavery. Clear laws like these, and the social commitment to implement and enforce them, will offer hope to women who are now trapped. This is why I support Bill C-36.

I do dream of living in a Canadian society that believes and practices gender equality. When we reach that pinnacle, women and girls will no longer be bought and sold by men. I want to live in a country that protects all of its citizens, and whose country's value system creates and provides laws that enshrine the safety, equality, and value of its people above all else, simply because they are human beings regardless of sex, class, race, and economic standing. I want to live in a country that prohibits the sale of its citizens as commodities to be bought and sold. This is why I stand before you today.

I think that Bill C-36, amended to remove criminalizing the prostituted themselves, will help us to find our way to that country. Please do all that you can to make this a reality.

Thank you.

July 8th, 2014 / 9:30 a.m.
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Conservative

The Chair Conservative Mike Wallace

This is the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights, meeting number 35. The orders of the day, per the order of reference of Monday, June 16, 2014, is on Bill C-36, an act to amend the Criminal Code in response to the Supreme Court of Canada decision in Attorney General of Canada v. Bedford and to make consequential amendments to other acts.

We have a number of witnesses here today in this first panel this morning. I will introduce them all, and then we will have you each give your 10-minute presentation. We will do it based on the order in the agenda.

From BridgeNorth, we have Ms. Casandra Diamond. From Prostitutes of Ottawa-Gatineau Work Educate and Resist, we have Emily Symons, chair. From the Calgary Police Service, we have the Chief of Police, Rick Hanson. Welcome.

From Stella, l'amie de Maimie, Robyn Maynard is a spokesperson for them. By video conference, all the way from Lisbon, Portugal, we have José Mendes Bota, member of the Portuguese parliament, who is here to talk to us about violence against women in the Council of Europe.

Let's begin with BridgeNorth. You have 10 minutes.

July 7th, 2014 / 5:30 p.m.
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Minister of Justice and Attorney General, Government of Manitoba

Andrew Swan

The prostitution diversion program continues to run in Manitoba, even though very few charges are being laid and very few threats of charges are being made. It is our intention that even if Bill C-36 passes as amended, we will continue to run that program, and we will be able to find victims of sexual exploitation who want to take that program. Again, the program is three days' long right now, which is barely enough time for somebody who has been working the streets in the north end or the west end of Winnipeg to get themselves to that window of being able to see that maybe there is something more.

I would love to expand that program: the number of days, how often we offer it, and perhaps to provide more meaningful assistance up front to assist people in making that change.

I wouldn't quite phrase it that you can't help people who don't want to help themselves, but what I've learned from organizations like Sage House, the Salvation Army, and TERF in Winnipeg is that the best we can do is to provide a platform and a safe place for people to start to make that decision to change their lives.

July 7th, 2014 / 5:25 p.m.
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Minister of Justice and Attorney General, Government of Manitoba

Andrew Swan

Sure. I mean, one of the reasons I'm here as a Manitoban is that, of course, we have the tragedy of missing and murdered aboriginal women. Now, just so it's clear, not every aboriginal woman who goes missing or is murdered has been sexually exploited. But if you are an aboriginal women who is being sexually exploited, your odds are not good.

We know from the work that's been done....and I know that Joy Smith and Irene Mathyssen and others were on a committee that looked at human trafficking several years ago. Many of the recommendations include ways to deal with poverty, to deal with education for first nations, where many of the young people are being trafficked from. You're absolutely right that there is much to be done on poverty, on housing, on educational opportunities. That doesn't change the fact that I believe, with the amendments I've asked for, that Bill C-36 goes a great way further downstream to try to prevent loss and damage and more tragedies.

But you're right, there are many big questions to be answered.

July 7th, 2014 / 5:05 p.m.
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Conservative

Bob Dechert Conservative Mississauga—Erindale, ON

So maybe they do. Perhaps they will clarify. If I got it wrong, I apologize. I believe I heard them say they oppose Bill C-36 because they believe that criminalizing the purchase of sex will make the practice of the sex industry more dangerous.

Do you believe that? Do you agree with that statement?

July 7th, 2014 / 5 p.m.
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Conservative

Bob Dechert Conservative Mississauga—Erindale, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all our witnesses.

I just want to say to Ms. Sullivan, Ms. Falle, and through you, Ms. Gallant, to Monica Forrester, that I think you're very brave for coming here and telling us your stories, and I want to thank you for doing that. It's very difficult for us as legislators to really understand what takes place in an industry like this without hearing your stories, so thank you for that.

I just want to respond quickly to Ms. Sullivan. You were concerned that Bill C-36 would criminalize a sex worker who was carrying on the practice in her home where her children would be present. The answer is simple: that is not a public place so it wouldn't be caught under that provision. I just want to reassure you on that.

For Ms. Forrester through Ms. Gallant, she said that she asked to be corrected. She was wrong that we weren't hearing from any other indigenous people in the sex business—

July 7th, 2014 / 4:50 p.m.
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Liberal

Sean Casey Liberal Charlottetown, PE

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

First off, as a matter of courtesy to my colleagues on the committee and to the witnesses, I apologize for coming late to the meeting. Mr. Dechert, Mr. Scott, and I were on Power & Politics in-between sessions. That the reason we were a bit late.

Mr. Minister, I came in the middle of your statement so I didn't hear it all, but I did read it in advance.

We're now on the second panel of the day, and although there's been a great divergence of views through the day, there is one thing on which every single witness, except for Peter MacKay and the Justice officials, agree on. Walk With Me Canada Victim Services, the Canadian Alliance for Sex Work Law Reform, the Criminal Lawyers' Association, Professor Janine Benedet, and Professor John Lowman all agree, as did each of you in your testimony today, that the criminalization of sex workers under the communication provisions is problematic and should either be amended or completely wiped out. That is one point of consensus from all of the witnesses, except for the minister and his officials today.

I want to come first to Ms. Beazley and Madam Matte, because I know that both of your organizations have done an extensive survey of models in other countries. Around here we constantly hear about the Nordic model. We know that it is an approach that criminalizes the purchasers, but what we have before us is something that not only criminalizes the purchasers but, in many instances, also criminalizes the providers and criminalizes advertising.

A witness we are going to be hearing from later in the week is a fellow by the name of José Mendes Bota. He was the rapporteur at the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe. He also did an extensive survey of the different models around the world, and in his report he describes a prohibitionist system, which bans prostitution by criminalizing all aspects of it, including the sale of sex and all the people involved. He said a number of European countries have chosen this approach, including Albania, Croatia, Romania, the Russian Federation, Serbia, and Ukraine.

My question for you, Ms. Beazley, and for you, Ms. Matte, is given all of the things that have been piled on top of the basic Nordic model in Bill C-36, are we not in fact much closer to a prohibitionist model with what we have before us?

July 7th, 2014 / 4:50 p.m.
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Representative, Sex Trafficking Survivors United

Natasha Falle

Certainly. In fact, I believe that Bill C-36 will actually give people who are being prostituted more leverage when dealing with violent johns, in enabling them to call the police and not fear being blamed for the abuse they are experiencing. I also believe it will give them an opportunity to screen because they can do so without having to answer to pimps and johns, because now men are going to be targeted. I also believe that by teaching society that this is an issue of male violence against women and children mostly, we are going to teach future generations of boys to grow up and understand that this is something they shouldn't contribute to.

I also believe that focusing on women and looking at them as victims in this industry will actually provide more opportunities for them to exit it, which we're not seeing right now. I think by pumping in money to organizations such as Maggie's it actually enables people to stay there. They did mention that there are some women whom they believe can't get out, and I don't believe that is true at all. I think that anyone who wants something is able to make that a possibility. I am a living testimony of that. In my last two years I had drug-induced schizophrenia and today I am in this position that I am today.

July 7th, 2014 / 4:45 p.m.
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Community organizer, Concertation des luttes contre l'exploitation sexuelle

Diane Matte

The other point where we agree with groups like Maggie's is the decriminalization of women in prostitution. Bill C-36 can't produce the desired outcome if women in prostitution continue to be criminalized in one form or another, regardless of whether they work on the streets or indoors. The exact opposite will happen. I have the feeling that continuing to criminalize them at all sends the message that they should go indoors because they'll be safer there.

It depends on where you stand in the debate. The NDP seems to think women will be safer indoors, but the reality is that, no matter where they are, they can fall victim to violence at the hands of clients or pimps.

The bill is endeavouring to change society's views on prostitution. It gives women an opportunity to exit prostitution voluntarily. And that needs to be pointed out.

July 7th, 2014 / 4:45 p.m.
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Conservative

Joy Smith Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB

Thanks. Obviously we'll leave that. We can find that out.

Madam Matte, I really liked what you were saying about the issue being the dignity of women, and, Rose, you underlined that.

Could either one of you voice what you think is so beneficial in Bill C-36? You've given some suggestions for amendments as well.

Rose, you came today and you said that you fully support Bill C-36. What is it about Bill C-36 that would help, in a practical way, those who need that help on the streets?

July 7th, 2014 / 4:45 p.m.
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Conservative

Joy Smith Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB

Our time is going, so I have another point to make. I have a couple of more questions with the others.

Thank you.

What stands out, and what I've heard, is the symbiotic relationship between provincial jurisdiction and federal jurisdiction—a partnership. For the first time, the federal law, Bill C-36, is working in partnership with what you're doing in the province of Manitoba. I dare say it's one child at a time or one victim at a time, isn't it?

I also want to ask Jean McDonald a question. You were saying you are helping to lessen the risk to the prostitutes on the street. Can you tell me whether you get paid for this position, or do you do it voluntarily?

July 7th, 2014 / 4:40 p.m.
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Conservative

Joy Smith Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all the witnesses for coming here today to give us your opinions.

Mr. Swan, I applaud you for all the work you do in Manitoba. I really applaud your support of Bill C-36, and your advice on some amendments. For the first time in Canada, the purchase of sex will be illegal, and that will help a lot of things. First-time advertising by third parties will be addressed, and for the first time we have compassion in the bill.

Having said that, could you expand a bit on what a victim actually needs? With living in the part of Winnipeg you live in and being on some of the streets that both of us have been on, perhaps you could give the committee insight as to what really happens.

I applaud Natasha and Rose for speaking today. It was fantastic. But could you give an overview as an elected person?

July 7th, 2014 / 4:40 p.m.
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Minister of Justice and Attorney General, Government of Manitoba

Andrew Swan

There are some big questions here.

Back in the fall, at the ministers meeting in Whitehorse, I advanced on behalf of Manitoba our view that the Nordic model was the way to go. I wrote to Minister MacKay early in February. I know that MP Joy Smith and I had discussed it. I made sure every Manitoba MP got a copy of the letter. I haven't heard from Mr. MacKay since the letter was sent early in February.

In terms of the kinds of services needed to help sexually exploited victims leave behind their life, it is difficult because of the trauma they've sustained. Attached to the submission is Tracia's Trust, which is a summary of the various things Manitoba is doing. There is no one simple answer. In many cases it may be people who have physical trauma, very much like that of returning soldiers. In some cases it's addictions problems or mental health issues.

One of the things we found very helpful, which I think maybe we've understood a bit more about this afternoon, is how helpful it is to have experiential people, who have the credibility of talking about what their life was about, who maybe have the best ability to work with people to try to effect that change.

We have the prostitution diversion program. This is only a three-day program, run by the Salvation Army. We intend to continue that program. Whatever Bill C-36 looks like, that, in and of itself, does not work miracles. We are not going to get somebody who's been sexually exploited to magically, in the course of those three days, change their life. But if they can get into that camp, get cleaned up, eat properly, sleep, which oftentimes is not possible, and then at least have an opportunity to be lined up with various agencies that can help them to make that choice, then we'll be further ahead. But it is not easy.

I don't want to be flippant, but the amount of money Manitoba will get every year, if it goes per capita, may allow us to help one person, or two people, and we know there's a greater demand than that. These are people who have suffered tremendously.

July 7th, 2014 / 4:35 p.m.
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Community organizer, Concertation des luttes contre l'exploitation sexuelle

Diane Matte

Indeed. The bill does what Bedford did not and could not do on its own, and that is change the objectives of the law, the Supreme Court justices, themselves, acknowledging that fact. A review of the evidence before them could not have produced the same outcome.

I didn't have time to discuss the concept of security in detail. But in our view, it would be beneficial to have Bill C-36 go much further and set out definitions of what constitutes a sexual service and the advertising of that service, as you were asking about this morning.

July 7th, 2014 / 4:35 p.m.
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NDP

Françoise Boivin NDP Gatineau, QC

Thank you.

Ms. Matte, you said the Supreme Court adopted a very narrow view of the concept of security in the Bedford ruling. Right afterwards, you said that Bill C-36 rectified that to some extent. In other words, Bill C-36 does what Bedford does not. Did I understand you correctly?

July 7th, 2014 / 4:25 p.m.
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Chanelle Gallant Outreach and Community Support Worker, Maggie's: The Toronto Sex Workers Action Project

Yes, I am.

My name is Chanelle Gallant. I'm a former staffer at Maggie's: The Toronto Sex Workers Action Project. I'm here representing one of our staffers, Monica Forrester, who could not be with us.

Monica is an indigenous sex-working woman. She was scheduled to be here, but over this past weekend one of her close friends, who is also an indigenous sex-working woman, was arrested on “communicating for the purposes of prostitution” charges. Monica has to stay in Toronto to offer her friend support and bail.

I believe that Monica was to be the only current indigenous sex worker that this group will be hearing from. I invite you to correct me if I'm wrong on that. I'm here in her stead to offer her submission because we do not want to allow the policing of prostitution to silence the very women whom we need to be hearing from. So following this is the submission of Monica Forrester.

My name is Monica Forrester. I'm a woman of colour from Curve Lake Reservation in Ontario. I'm a trans woman and a street sex worker of 25 years. I've been stigmatized because of my identity, my race, and my class. I'm here to speak about sex workers who are doing the work due to choice, coercion, or economic circumstance.

For many years I was homeless. I had no other options but to do sex work to survive and to get the basic necessities of life and access community. Sex work was where I found community with people dealing with the same discrimination as I was. I'm now a college graduate and an outreach worker bringing community, empowerment, and safety to marginalized groups.

Many do not understand street sex work or how Bill C-36 will affect us. Some work the street because they are poor and don't have the money to pay for things, like a phone or a computer or renting space. Some are homeless and have no other method of earning money. For some women, such as single mothers, social services are far from sufficient. Ontario Works provides $718 to a single parent in Ontario, but the average one-bedroom rent in Toronto is about $1,000 per month. Single parents who are sex working to support their family do not want to work at home where their children live, and so some choose to work on the street.

Aboriginal women in remote areas are working along the highways to get from town to town. Survival sex work is necessary to feed their kids and themselves. They face added stigma within their communities because of ongoing colonization. Colonialism already silenced them about sex, and sex work adds another layer of stigma and more isolation from their community.

Aboriginal women in Vancouver who were killed by Robert Pickton were from all over, but went to the downtown streets to do survival sex work. There are migrants and newcomers to Canada whose first language isn't English. For them, advertising is difficult or even impossible, but they can advertise by being on the street and negotiating a few English words.

Bill C-36 does not help these people, does not help sex workers, including those who have no other choices. A lot of trans women like me, because they don't have basic human rights, can't find jobs. Recently a trans woman asked me about these new laws, wondering how she was going to pay her rent or go to college or transition so she could get another job. This week a 50-year-old woman who's been a sex worker for her entire adult life came into Maggie's for safer sex supplies and asked who was going to hire her. It was all she'd ever done. Was she going to have to go on welfare now?

Bill C-36 will silence sex workers who experience violence. I'm a sex worker and a front-line outreach worker with 20 years' experience. I have seen all these situations first-hand. When there is more policing and surveillance, sex workers get isolated from people providing essential services, and that isolation leads to vulnerability. These services include education about safer sex, safer work areas, the law, policing, and community support. The street-based community is a community of its own. It can be close-knit. We educate each other because we need each other. Bill C-36 will change that because people will be more in fear of sharing information and supporting each other. We will have to take whatever clients we can and not be able to fully screen for safety.

Police will push outdoor workers away from residential areas because of the restriction on being near anyone under 18. This will lead to an increase in residential surveillance and harassment. Marginalized groups, like people of colour, trans women, aboriginal women, and two-spirit women are more likely to be street-based, and they will face extreme criminalization under this bill.

With the Internet, much of the sex industry moved indoors. By criminalizing advertising though, these workers will now be forced back out onto the street. This puts them at risk because indoor workers do not have any knowledge of street safety. Together, all of this will increase violence, murder, and HIV/AIDS against our community.

My recommendations are that $20 million in exit funds should be used to offer direct support to sex workers that is not dependent on their leaving the industry, which many of us can't or don't want to do. We need laws that allow us to work with safety and dignity, to make our own choices, for example, the right to advertise, to hire security staff, and to work with buddies. We need sex-worker positive agencies, like Maggie's, that empower us about safety, health, and well-being. The Supreme Court decision should be respected because it saw the necessity of decriminalization for all sex workers, whether we are in it by choice, coercion, or because of economic circumstances.

Right now, if we face violence, we can't call the police because it will be recorded in the system. I have never been able to call police for help, even after I was sexually assaulted. At the time I had been through the mandatory diversion program after an arrest for prostitution and knew that I faced incarceration if my sex work was discovered, so even though I was raped, I did not call police. Bill C-36 would not have helped me then, and it won't help me now.

I would ask that you reconsider Bill C-36 and the horrible outcomes it will have on the most marginalized sex workers in Canada. The fate of the sex worker community is in your hands.

Thank you.

July 7th, 2014 / 4:20 p.m.
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Jean McDonald Executive Director, Maggie's: The Toronto Sex Workers Action Project

Hi there. My name is Jean McDonald. I'm the executive director of Maggie's: The Toronto Sex Workers Action Project, an organization that's run for and by sex workers, and is the oldest of its kind in Canada.

Our mission is to assist sex workers in their efforts to live and work with safety and dignity. Maggie's is a harm reduction agency primarily funded through the Ontario Ministry of Health and Long-Term Care. We provide safer sex and safer drug use supplies, education and support, and have had several thousand client contacts in the last year. We do front-line work and our service users are predominantly street-based sex workers. Many are lower income, indigenous, of colour and/or transgendered.

Since the legislation was introduced we've held many consultations with our service users, who unanimously reject this bill. They believe it will not ensure their safety or their security. Instead they say it will push them further into harm's way, continuing the epidemic of violence against sex workers in Canada. They are gravely worried about their own safety and worried that more of their friends will go missing, be assaulted, raped or murdered.

Recreating the same harms of the old legislation struck down by the Supreme Court, Bill C-36 will continue to allow violent predators like Robert Pickton to prey on sex workers who have been pushed into less public areas of the city, unable to screen their potential clients and unable to work together. This is why many people have taken to calling Bill C-36 the Pickton model.

The debate here should not be about choice or about whether violence happens to sex workers. We know violence happens to sex workers. We want to address that violence. Instead it should be about the best ways to ensure safety and security and access to services such as police, if necessary, for sex workers.

Bill C-36 does not do this. It both indirectly and directly punishes sex workers by making prostitution illegal, as Peter MacKay confirmed this morning. Criminalization breeds isolation and isolation, in turn, breeds vulnerability to violence, exploitation, and abuse. Instead of working to de-stigmatize prostitution and to see sex workers as part of Canadian society, Bill C-36 will make it difficult and unsafe for sex workers to reach out to community services, to family and friends, or even to police for assistance. In fact, proposed subsection 213(1.1), which criminalizes communication, will give police considerable powers to continue to target and harass sex workers. Communication is one of the key means by which street-based sex workers are able to screen their clients, to see if a client may be intoxicated or sober, to negotiate rate, services, and safer sex practices.

Criminalizing the purchase of sex, as studies from Sweden have shown, will not protect sex workers nor will it reduce demand. When clients are criminalized they are also less likely to assist sex workers who may be exploited or abused because those clients themselves will fear arrest. As well, criminalizing the purchase of sex in effect results in a de facto criminalization of the sale of sex.

Working indoors has been demonstrated to enhance sex workers' ability to control their work conditions and to negotiate safer sex practices, yet Bill C-36 impedes the ability to work indoors because it bans advertising and criminalizes the purchase of sexual services. Instead of criminalizing prostitution, the Government of Canada should listen to what sex workers have been saying for more than 30 years and what sex worker groups the world over unanimously agree will increase the safety and security of sex workers, and that is decriminalization.

Systems of decriminalization, such as the Prostitution Reform Act 2003 in New Zealand, allow sex workers to have the same labour protections and legal rights as any other person in the country. Studies of decriminalization in New Zealand have shown an improvement in working conditions, a decrease in violence, and an increase in the ability for sex workers to negotiate safer sex practices.

There are already provisions in the Criminal Code pertaining to forced labour, forcible confinement, kidnapping, sexual assault, statutory rape, theft, and physical assault. Should sex work be decriminalized, none of these very important aspects of the Criminal Code will be affected. In fact, sex workers will have a greater ability to access and to charge people who may be doing these things to them.

At Maggie's, we believe that Bill C-36 must be scrapped in its entirety. In its place, a system of decriminalization should be developed to provide sex workers with the same labour, legal, and human rights as any other person in Canada.

We support the move from legislation that is moralist to one that is based on human rights and on health and safety standards. At Maggie's, we see the decriminalization of prostitution as an essential part of our overall harm reduction strategy.

Thank you.

July 7th, 2014 / 4:10 p.m.
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Natasha Falle Representative, Sex Trafficking Survivors United

Sex Trafficking Survivors United is a survivor-led international organization. Our 177 survivors urge the Canadian Parliament to take a stand against the exploitation of young, poor, and vulnerable by the richer, older, and more powerful. Pass Bill C-36.

As all survivors know, the vast majority of people end up in prostitution because they have no other choice, which only serves to stigmatize and further trap most of the sexually exploited. This empowers their traffickers and abusers while erasing the truth that the exploited are victims of multiple crimes. This is a statement made by our founder, Stella Marr.

According to the Toronto sex crimes unit, the average age is 14. My story, my truth, is a common story. I entered when I was close to 15 years old. I came from a middle class home in the Calgary suburbs. My father was a police officer. My mother managed bridal shops. My seemingly normal life suddenly became unsafe, and I hit the streets. Not knowing where to turn for help, I spent months couch-surfing from place to place, often hungry and scared. I began having sex at an early age, often giving myself away loosely for a place to stay.

I was first introduced to prostitution by underage girls, 14 and 15 years old, and eventually a man who posed as a manager offered me a business opportunity. I introduced my five underage friends into prostitution at that time. We sold sex independently for a number of months. We fought society's stereotypes that we were junkies, criminals, and sexual deviants. We tried hard not to feed those stereotypes by not using hard drugs or having pimps, but one by one each one of us ended up with a pimp and/or on drugs. My best friend was murdered. She was shot in the head by a pimp she only knew for three months who posed as a bodyguard.

While underage we easily gained work in escort agencies, by ads in papers, on street corners, in massage parlours, and while the geographical location in which sex is sold varies, what remains the same is the men who purchase human bodies. The power dynamics do not change. This is a business exchange based on lies and gender inequality and threats of violence. It is often referred to as “the game” because both parties struggle for power and control. For their survival the prostituted people need to feel they have power in the situation, the sex buyers for their own gratification.

Most violence we experienced in prostitution happened after the sex act was finished. Men spent their welfare cheques or their mortgage payments to have sex with me. They used money set aside for their children's birthday gifts or anniversary gifts. When I was no longer a fantasy image to them and the thrill was over, I was just a regular person and in some cases considered disposable to these men.

I met and I was sold with hundreds of underage girls in prostitution. I have counselled over 1,200 prostituted women, trans, and children. Most disclose that they entered into it as children. Child sex abuse occurs when an adult or an older child persuades, tricks, or forces a child into sexual activity. It includes sexual acts, inappropriate touching, showing the child pornography, or involving them in prostitution. It is considered child abuse when an adult has sex with a child or youth. When a child receives money for sex it does not change anything, it is still abuse.

Let's talk about the slippery slope of legalized prostitution and at-risk youth. In 2011 Youth Line website promoted a youth sex worker workshop facilitated by a pro-prostitution group from that you will soon hear from, entitled Hu$tle & Dough: Youth Sex Workers Build Power & Safety! Hu$tle is spelled with a dollar sign. This is a group for those underaged and those 16 to 24. Topics that were discussed included how to be in control while working. Children have little or no control in situations of abuse from adults.

Another topic was how to support yourself financially, physically, and emotionally. Teaching kids how to be sex workers is abuse. How to avoid arrest is teaching youth how to avoid police. How to avoid HIV. I can't tell you how many times I've had a condom pulled off by a john without my knowing, or a hole poked in it, or been offered $20 or $1,000 for a condomless blow job.

This workshop was facilitated by a current sex worker, who herself began as a youth. I have copies of it that I have submitted to the chair.

It is a basic human right for women and children to be free from being sold to men. No child or woman should have to resort to accepting violence for their survival, under any circumstance. It is crucial to note that all but one of the experiential affiants in this Bedford case entered prostitution as children. The other affiant admitted to being coerced.

Considering that most prostituted women and men entered as children, it's fair to assume that many have not had a healthy comparison apart from prostitution. That is why it does not surprise people such as me, with lived experience, that in July of 2012 the Adult Entertainment Association of Canada threatened to recruit high-school students, claiming to help youth pay for university. In reality, they were advocating for an industry that thrives off the male demand for younger flesh for their own personal gain.

Someone who greatly inspired me to be where I am today—a graduate of college and university, a college professor of police foundations for five years, the founder of an organization, and a board member of Sex Trafficking Survivors United—once said to me in my earlier years, when I first transitioned from the sex trade.... I had been out a couple of years, and I really struggled. I blamed myself for a lot of the experiences that I had endured. She said to me, “For something to be a real choice, you need to have another option of equal or greater value”.

There's no job description that could accurately portray my experiences in prostitution. I have sold sex independently, and I have been forced by so-called bodyguards. My pimp was shot while protecting me from another pimp. He also stabbed another man seven times, who had harmed me. He hung this over my head, making me believe that I owed him my life for this protection. My pimp burned me with cigarettes, broke my bones, and brutally beat me on a regular basis. I was trained not to call the police. I listened, out of fear of losing work, the only work that I knew.

It was not the laws that hindered me from calling the police. It was the pimps and the owners of bawdy houses, who did not want the police attention of their establishments that would chase the sex buyers away. We were labelled rats and snitches when we went to the police. Therefore, we dealt with violent matters internally.

A prostituted woman was killed in Germany in a brothel this month, and it was the 22nd murder since the complete legalization of prostitution in 2002. Whereas, in Sweden, where the Nordic model passed in 1999, the only murder of a prostituted woman was in 2013, and it is not clear whether it was prostitution related.

Sex Trafficking Survivors United recommends that the government raise the $20 million allocated to help survivor-led organizations such as ourselves help the people, our sisters, exit from this dangerous, dark, and lucrative underground industry.

We recommend that section 213 be revisited and all criminalization of prostituted people be removed. Women who are unable to adequately protect themselves or their own children are not in a position to protect children in the communities.

I have provided more details in our brief, submitted in partnership with the London Abused Women's Centre. You'll hear from the director there on another day.

I'd like to give thanks on behalf of all survivors around the world who are in support of this bill. We recognize the historic significance of the government in recognizing this form of male violence against prostituted people. It is clear from the evidence I have presented today that the government is on the right track to protecting our most vulnerable in society. For that, survivors around the world are most grateful.

I would like to personally extend my deepest gratitude to MP Joy Smith and Minister Peter MacKay for listening to survivors. There's a reason that so many of us are exposing prostitution.

Thank you.

July 7th, 2014 / 4:05 p.m.
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Rose Sullivan Participant , Concertation des luttes contre l'exploitation sexuelle

Good afternoon.

My name is Rose Sullivan. I am a survivor of prostitution and a CLES activist. I am actively involved in building a support network for women who are victims of sexual exploitation and want a way out.

I was a prostitute for three long years. And I tried to conduct my business as safely as possible because I want to live, for my children among other reasons. What I learned from my time as a prostitute is that it's impossible to engage in prostitution safely. When I started out, I was pro-sex work, but over time, I became a staunch abolitionist, in addition to being completely beaten down. Things are better now.

I am an active champion of abolishing prostitution. And that is why I support Bill C-36 wholeheartedly. There is, however, one aspect of the bill that disturbs me: the fact that some provisions continue to criminalize women. As I see it, to ensure the safety of female prostitutes and to genuinely support their exit from prostitution, it is imperative that they not be criminalized. Even though the criminalization of prostitutes represents a small component of the bill, it negates all the other provisions. If there is any possible way to lay the criminal blame on prostitutes, pimps and the various groups that benefit from prostitution will still have the tools they need to scare, manipulate, blackmail and keep these women in prostitution. They must not be criminalized in any way.

To call us victims in some situations and criminals in others makes absolutely no sense. In my view, this part of the bill could lead to more prostitution in places where children are present, even though the opposite is intended. It enables pimps to keep their control over the women. No matter where these women are—quote unquote—pimped out, they will be breaking the law and that will allow pimps to exploit them. The bill will do absolutely nothing to reduce prostitution in the locations desired, in other words, near children and churches.

As a mother of three, I would say that women who prostitute themselves in their homes, while their children are in the room or the apartment next door, are probably the women with the fewest choices. They are the most vulnerable ones of all. This is utterly the wrong way to help them; criminalizing them even more than women who are fortunate enough to carry out their business in other circumstances is just wrong.

Regardless, children can be anywhere. That part of the bill is extremely arbitrary. Police and municipalities will still be able to freely abuse their power and continue to criminalize far too many women.

When I was a prostitute, apart from being assaulted—something that happened to me quite early on—my biggest fears were losing custody of my children and having a criminal record. And those were the fears that the individuals who pimped me out played upon to control me. That is how they scared me and made me stay in prostitution much longer than I had originally intended.

Once, a client of mine became violent with me, and I wanted to stop seeing him. And my pimp used these scare tactics to force me to keep seeing that client. He said he was going to call children's aid and the police. I was scared so I kept seeing the client. And when the day finally came that I just couldn't take the violence any more and I actually called the police, I got no help because the law was too ambiguous and the police didn't really know how to help me even though they knew I needed assistance.

There can no longer be any grey areas in the law. All prostitution legislation must be clear, specific and easy to enforce in order to adequately protect women and give those who want to exit prostitution the help they need to do so.

July 7th, 2014 / 3:55 p.m.
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Diane Matte Community organizer, Concertation des luttes contre l'exploitation sexuelle

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to thank the committee for agreeing to hear the perspective of the women we represent.

Like many individuals, groups and countries that are following this debate and watching what we are doing here in Canada, Concertation des luttes contre l'exploitation sexuelle, or CLES, cannot but salute the decision to criminalize the purchasing of sex in Canada. Even though the bill is imperfect, we regard this as a victory for abolition, not prohibition. This bill calls upon Canadian society to stop considering prostitution and the industry that exploits it as inevitable and a victimless crime. For the first time in Canadian legal history, a government is inviting us to examine prostitution as a crime against the person, a form of violence against women that is incompatible with the quest for social equality, in particular the equality rights of women who are among the most marginalized.

CLES has been in existence for nearly 10 years, and for 6 of those years, we have been in daily contact with women who have been or are in prostitution. We believe in the necessity of building a world without prostitution. We offer support, guidance and an ear to female victims of sexual exploitation. We fight with them for recognition of their rights and to ensure their security, including the security of not being prostituted and of receiving support to leave the business when they want to.

We organize the women so they can act to bring about the change they want in their lives and those of the women around them. We do preventive work to combat the trivialization of prostitution and to publicize its impact on the physical and mental health of those who are dealing with this reality, but also on access to equality for all women. We consider ourselves part of an international movement that is working tirelessly to denounce the secular and patriarchal tradition of prostitution.

I won't get into the details of the brief, but we invite you to look at Bill C-36 from a perspective that sees government action as part of the struggle against the commodification of human beings, in the interest of equality for all.

We shall focus first of all on the concept of security. In our view, the Bedford ruling relied on a very narrow interpretation of the security of person concept set out in every human rights charter in the world. I urge Canadian society not to adopt that limited view. The Bedford ruling encouraged the privatization of the safety of women in the prostitution industry. It was recommended that women hire a driver or bodyguard, rather than address the lack of safety of those women at the source. We find it unacceptable to reduce the concept of security to its simplest form, in Canadian society today.

Like others have done before us, we urge you to refuse any form of criminalization of prostitutes. My colleague Rose Sullivan can elaborate on that. Women have a voice. But very often, when women who work in the prostitution industry criticize prostitution, or when women who have left prostitution speak about it in a negative light, they manage to snuff that voice out.

We encourage you to listen to what women in prostitution have said. Over the past year, CLES has done a study, which we would be happy to provide to the committee. After speaking with 109 women in 6 cities across Quebec, we learned that 45% of them were still active in the sex industry when they answered the questionnaire or took part in interviews, and that 80% of them wanted to get out of prostitution but did not know of any organizations to help them. That view needs to be taken into account.

Furthermore, of the 109 women who answered the questionnaire, 90% had been or were victims of violence at the hands of men in their immediate circles, be they family members, clients or pimps.

The women we talk to on a daily basis, as well as those who responded to our research call, are demanding more justice, more consistency, more services and more recognition that they are living or have lived one of the forms of violence against women that are most trivialized, and yet still taboo in the year 2014.

While we support Bill C-36, one fundamental change must be made to act upon undertaking to decriminalize the victims of sexual exploitation. The Nordic, or Swedish, model relies on three integral parts, the first being the total decriminalization of prostitutes, female or otherwise. The second is the criminalization of the purchase of sex. And the third is education aimed at changing society's attitudes and perception around prostitution. The success of Bill C-36 inevitably hinges on those three inseparable components.

I will conclude by stressing that we are at a crossroads, and certain choices are necessary. No one, no political party, can skirt the fundamental question. Do we believe that prostitution and the sexual exploitation it represents have their purpose in our society? If not, we have to act and go much further than what Bill C-36 would do. We have to want more for women than prostitution; we have to want more for the women who are in prostitution.

Of course, we support the $20-million investment made by the government, but it is not enough. We would like to see more funding, to be sure. We want to stress how important it is that the money go to groups that work towards the same objectives set out in the preamble of the bill, in other words, stamping out the view that prostitution is an inevitable reality that cannot be changed.

And I feel compelled to point out, in no uncertain terms, that a number of organizations around the country working to keep women in prostitution currently benefit from government funding as well as endowments. These organizations encourage women in prostitution who are unhappy with their current working conditions to go elsewhere or to become pimps themselves. Let's call a spade a spade. Some groups endeavour to keep women in prostitution. Bill C-36 seeks to block such efforts by the industry to legitimize the sex trade in Canada. Selling sexual services to others is neither a legitimate business nor compatible with the pursuit of gender equality.

July 7th, 2014 / 3:45 p.m.
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Julia Beazley Policy Analyst, Centre for Faith and Public Life, Evangelical Fellowship of Canada

Thank you.

The Evangelical Fellowship of Canada is the national association of evangelical Christians gathered together for influence, impact, and identity in ministry and public witness. Since 1964 the EFC has provided a national forum for evangelicals and a constructive voice for biblical principles in life and society.

Over the last few decades, the EFC has presented a number of papers and submissions to Parliament on the issue of prostitution and on the closely related issue of human trafficking. We also intervened before the Supreme Court of Canada in the Bedford case. We're grateful for the opportunity to speak to this important bill. For the sake of time I'm going to focus on a few key elements of the bill and ask that you would refer to our written brief for our full analysis.

A central message of the Bible is the call for God's people to be compassionate because God has been compassionate to us. Our belief that God has created all people in his image and loves each one compels us both to announce and to guard the fundamental dignity of each person. We understand people should be treated as creatures with inherent worth, not as objects for another's gratification or profit. The EFC has long expressed concern for those who are prostituted based on biblical principles that compel care for the vulnerable, the pursuit of justice, and inform the duty of care we owe one another as human beings.

Research shows that the vast majority of individuals in prostitution enter by force, coercion, or as a result of constrained choice and last resort. Prostitution is inherently dangerous. It's violence against women and a form of systemic exploitation of many of our society's most vulnerable women, children, and men. We do not believe prostitution can be considered safe or legitimated as a form of work, nor can it be accepted as a solution to poverty and a range of other underlying social issues.

We commend the government for the good work it has done in crafting Bill C-36, which courageously challenges the assumption that men are entitled to paid sexual access to women's bodies, and boldly refutes the notion that buying sex is an inevitable in our society. In this regard the bill represents a paradigm shift in law and policy, and eventually we hope in public attitude about prostitution.

This is a shift the EFC has advocated for, so we're pleased to see it reflected not just in the bill but in comments and speeches delivered by the minister in introducing and framing it.

The preamble begins with the recognition that prostitution is inherently exploitive and dangerous, that objectification of the human body and commodification of sexual activity causes social harm, and that prostitution violates human dignity and gender equality. It also recognizes issues like poverty, addiction, mental illness, and racialization are key contributing factors to individuals entering prostitution, and it notes the importance of denouncing and prohibiting the purchase of sex because that's what creates the demand for prostitution.

This positioning effectively turns the historic treatment of prostitution on its head. Legal and political treatment of prostitution has long focused almost exclusively on those who are prostituted and how we might deal with them as public nuisance, as a threat to public health, or a source of community disruption. Sex buyers who drive the demand that funnels individuals into prostitution and holds them there have been largely invisible.

C-36 correctly identifies and targets demand as the driving force behind prostitution and trafficking for sexual exploitation. The bill proposes a new offence prohibiting the purchase or attempted purchase of sexual services. If passed, the purchase of sex would be illegal for the first time in Canada and a buyer's conduct would be illegal wherever it occurs.

The sex trade operates according to market principles of supply and demand. Without male demand for paid sexual access to primarily women and children, the prostitution industry wouldn't flourish or expand. This new offence takes aim at the root of this exploitation and is supported by significant fines and potential jail time. Surveys of men who buy sex indicate these, along with a risk of public shaming, are the things that would most effectively deter them from continuing in their sex-buying behaviour.

We recommend funds incurred from fines under proposed subsection 286.1(1) be directed towards exit services. We question the purpose of proposed paragraph 286.1(1)(b), which gives the option of a summary offence with lower fines and jail terms. For consistency of message and deterrents, our preference would be that all offences under this section be indictable as under 286.1(1)(a). However, if there is good reason for maintaining the option of a summary conviction at the crown's discretion, then we suggest that summary conviction only be an option on first offence and that subsequent offences be indictable.

We also question what will become of re-educational programs like john schools, which serve an important restorative justice function. Feedback from buyers who attend and anecdotal evidence from those who run or participate in the programs suggest that these play an important role in changing how buyers view prostitution, and that recidivism rates among those who attend are relatively low.

In prostitution, everyone is robbed, including the buyer, and certainly any family they may have. Our interest is that all parties to prostitution be restored and we feel that john schools play an important role in this. So we hope that provinces will be encouraged to maintain or establish prostitution offender programs as part of the punishment for offences under section 286.1.

Where the diversion program is often an alternative to a first offence criminal charge, it could be made mandatory so that in addition to the $1,000 fine on a first offence, buyers could be required to attend a diversion program.

Bill C-36 also initiates a critical shift in how those who are prostituted are viewed in law. Research and anecdotal evidence tell us that between 88% and 96% of those in prostitution are not there by choice and say that they would get out if they felt they had a viable alternative. This bill recognizes and reflects that reality. The government has made it clear that in the spirit and intent of the legislation those who are prostituted are no longer seen as a nuisance but as vulnerable, and therefore afforded immunity from criminal charges except under specific circumstances.

This is an important shift that we affirm wholeheartedly. We are concerned, though, that paragraphs 213(1)(a) and (b), which deal with stopping motor vehicles or impeding vehicular or pedestrian traffic, remain and are unqualified by the new section 213(1.1), which makes it an offence to communicate for prostitution in a public place or next to a place where reasonably minors might be expected to be present.

We understand the balance the government has tried to achieve between protecting vulnerable individuals involved in prostitution and protecting communities, especially children, from exposure. Where there is prostitution there are johns and pimps, and the objective of protecting children from exposure, being solicited by buyers, or approached by pimps is a good one. But the current wording of the section leaves a fairly big loophole that could undermine the intent of the law to criminalize mainly the activities of johns and pimps.

Further, by our interpretation the only ones who risk criminalization under the proposed laws are the most vulnerable: those engaging in street-level prostitution who are among the poorest, most desperate, and most addicted. Criminalizing vulnerable individuals creates barriers to their exit from prostitution and further entrenches the inequality and marginalization that got them there.

Criminal records are a significant barrier to many potential educational or employment opportunities for those who successfully exit, especially when so many who find health and freedom want to then go back and help.

We want to minimize the potential of this section for criminalizing prostituted individuals. The current scope is far too broad as it could be argued that minors could be reasonably expected to be just about anywhere in public. Our preference is that section 213 be either narrowed significantly or removed. Offences under section 213(1) and 213(1.1) are punishable on summary conviction, which, as I understand it, can carry fines of up to $2,000, jail time up to six months, or both.

If section 213 is not amended to minimize the potential for criminalization we suggest the punishment for these summary offences be set at a very low threshold with no potential for imprisonment, and be defined in the legislation so that we can ensure the most vulnerable don't continue to face undue hardship.

Ultimately a lot of this comes down to enforcement. How can we be assured that the spirit and intent of the bill will be upheld when it comes to enforcing the laws? We have travelled extensively across Canada, conducting public informational forums on prostitution, in partnership with Defend Dignity, and I can say two things with confidence. There are police officers and police forces in whose hands we feel completely confident that the spirit of this law will be upheld. But there are also others in whose hands we don't have that same confidence.

The Attorney General of Canada can give direction to the provincial attorneys general, who then give guidance to law enforcement within their jurisdiction, but how a particular police department enforces the laws is determined by the department itself, as evidenced by the number of police forces across the country that have already been policing in a manner consistent with Bill C-36.

We suggest that standardized training be developed for law enforcement, provincial attorneys general, and crown attorneys about the new treatment of prostitution under Bill C-36 to support enforcement that's consistent with the intent of the legislation.

Finally, the legislative changes proposed are part of what is to be a two-pronged approach taken by the government. We welcome the initial commitment of $20 million to supporting exit programs and hope this will translate to long-term sustained federal funding. The government should also engage provincial, territorial, and municipal governments and a wide range of stakeholders in developing a comprehensive national plan to ensure that programs and supports are in place to prevent vulnerable individuals from entering prostitution and support those who are in as they exit.

We suggest that such a plan could be integrated into the national action plan to combat human trafficking.

It's also important to address poverty and affordable housing as underlying social issues that drive individuals to prostitution or make them vulnerable to exploitation, because preventing entry into prostitution is just as important as helping with exit from it once they're in.

Thank you.

July 7th, 2014 / 3:35 p.m.
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Andrew Swan Minister of Justice and Attorney General, Government of Manitoba

I am thankful for the opportunity to be here to speak to the committee about Bill C-36.

Finding the right way to reduce sexual exploitation in Canada is difficult, complex, and controversial. It's also vitally important. Bill C-36 deals with the legal gap resulting from the Supreme Court of Canada decision in the case of Bedford. We now have an opportunity together to find a better way to protect and assist victims of sexual exploitation and enhance safety in our communities.

In my time today I'll explain why Manitoba supports the adoption of the so-called Nordic model. We'll also suggest why and how Bill C-36 needs to be amended. I'll also talk about the necessary support for victims of sexual exploitation, and why we need clarity respecting the funding announced by the federal government for this purpose.

In Manitoba's view, prostitution is not a victimless crime. Every day vulnerable persons—women, men, and children—are preyed upon by individuals and groups who sexually exploit them. The harm caused to those exploited is severe: alcohol and drug addiction, violent victimization, and emotional traumatization at the hands of buyers of sex, pimps, drug dealers, and others. We know that many victims in Manitoba are first sexually exploited at a very young age. The majority of those who escape suffer from deep physical and emotional scars and trauma that remain with them for the rest of their lives.

Victims of sexual exploitation in Manitoba and elsewhere face risks and dangers that can only be considered extreme. In “Homicide in Canada, 2011”, the Canadian Centre for Justice Statistics indicated that between 1997 and 2011, 99 people were killed as a direct result of being sexually exploited. It is likely, Mr. Chair, that this number is quite lower than the reality. This number only includes those cases in which the police are able to determine that death occurred during prostitution-related activities. Indeed, many missing and murdered women cases, such as the Pickton case in B.C. or the recent Lamb case in Manitoba, involve women who were thought to have been sexually exploited.

The Manitoba government does not support the legalization of prostitution, it does not support the full decriminalization of prostitution or a de facto decriminalization of prostitution, which would occur if there was no response to the Bedford decision. All those options would continue to allow the purchase of others for sex, devalue human life, and enable tragedies associated with prostitution to continue to occur.

The great majority of sellers of sex—not all, but the great majority—are indeed victims of sexual exploitation. The great majority of sellers of sex do not have any meaningful choice about becoming involved and staying involved in prostitution. Given the significant role in prostitution of childhood sexual abuse, substance abuse, financial dependency, chemical dependency, and coercion by street gangs and organized crime, it is unreasonable to expect that the victims of sexual exploitation can easily exit without appropriate laws and supports to assist them.

Bill C-36 offers an appropriate approach to address prostitution. It focuses for the first time in Canada's history on reducing the demand for the purchase of sex and assisting victims to escape sexual exploitation. With reduced demand, there will be less incentive to coerce others to engage in prostitution and human trafficking.

The Nordic model of prostitution laws flows from the premise that victims of sexual exploitation should not be further victimized by criminal charges for selling their sexual services. Instead the laws take on the demand side of prostitution by making it a criminal offence to purchase sex and by penalizing those who exploit the victims for profit by making it a criminal offence to profit from procuring sexual services for another person.

In the Nordic model, the criminal law is part of a larger strategy that includes increasing public awareness to the harms of prostitution and providing exit strategies and supports to assist victims of sexual exploitation.

The Nordic model has been successful in reducing prostitution where it has been adopted. For example, it's significantly decreased street prostitution by at least half in Sweden at a time when prostitution in other Nordic countries was increasing. Human trafficking into Sweden has all but ceased. Studies from Norway, next door, show a marked decrease in serious violence against victims of sexual exploitation. Several other countries, including Norway, Finland, Iceland, Israel, and France have since also adopted or are in the process of adopting the Nordic model.

In Manitoba, I can tell you that prosecutors and police have effectively adopted the Nordic model demand reduction approach in dealing with prostitution charges under the Criminal Code. Our prosecutors encourage those who are charged with offences to participate in diversion programs and consider whether more stringent probation conditions, such as community work and stay-away orders, should be sought against buyers of sex convicted under the Criminal Code prostitution provisions.

In November 2013, the Winnipeg Police Service announced that it's counter exploitation unit would be adopting the approach of not arresting victims of sexual exploitation. Instead, they would be working with them to see if they could connect them with social work organizations and support groups that could help them to leave what they're doing. They would also continue to arrest and charge johns and those who exploit sexually exploit people for profit.

The RCMP and other municipal police forces in Manitoba have also taken this deferential approach. Given my government's support for the Nordic model—expressed at the last national meeting of justice ministers and by way of my letter to Minister MacKay of February 5—I'm very pleased that Bill C-36 primarily adopts a similar approach, by creating an offence of purchasing sexual services and criminalizing profiting from the prostitution of others while not criminalizing the selling of one's own sexual services or using the proceeds for non-exploitive purposes. I do support those elements of the bill, and I encourage all members of Parliament to enact them so they can be implemented as soon as possible.

I am pleased that I don't stand alone. I do want to recognize the work and the efforts of Manitoba MP Joy Smith; we've maybe taken a different path to the same conclusion. I'm sure that some other day we'll be disagreeing vehemently on something, but Joy Smith has been a strong voice on this in Manitoba.

That being said, there are certainly requirements for amendment before this bill should pass. I do have serious concerns about those provisions of Bill C-36 that would criminalize the victims of sexual exploitation if they are forced to engage in prostitution in a manner that stops or impedes traffic, or communication for the purposes of prostitution in a public place where persons under the age of 18 may reasonably be expected to be present.

Those provisions are completely inconsistent with the Nordic model, in terms of punishing and revictimizing the victims of sexual exploitation. This would force those engaged in street prostitution to ply their trade in more isolated and dangerous locations. It would put their safety at risk. It certainly could jeopardize the constitutionality of the legislation by undermining the safety of victims of sexual exploitation rather than enhancing their protection. I can't support those provisions, and I would urge that Bill C-36 be amended to remove them from the legislation.

I do have serious concerns that the provisions contained in clause 15 of the bill would lead to greater danger, an almost certain series of court challenges, and a much enhanced risk that they will ultimately be struck down. In the meantime, the focus will continue to be on the sellers of sex. Instead, it should be on the buyers of sex to take responsibility for their actions and change their behaviour.

I've tried to determine how these provisions made it into the bill. My best guess is that they attempt to reconcile a lack of consensus among law enforcement on the best way to have victims of sexual exploitation make changes in their lives. It is perhaps the threat of criminal prosecution that is seen by some to be the best way to get there. I do not agree.

In Manitoba, as I have already stated, our law enforcement partners have already moved as far as they can toward the Nordic model. The prostitution diversion program, operated by the Salvation Army, and paid for by the diversion program for the buyers of sex, commonly known as john school, will continue and hopefully be enhanced. Victims of sexual exploitation will pursue change if we give them reasons and the opportunity to do so, not by holding the threat of prosecution over their heads.

Finally, although not part of Bill C-36, I would like to express qualified support for the federal government's commitment to provide funding for programs to assist victims of sexual exploitation. Programs to assist victims to withdraw from prostitution and to pursue more positive alternatives are an essential part of the Nordic model and a key element to the success of that approach. There is a need for robust ongoing programming to provide sexually exploited victims with a meaningful choice to leave the sex trade.

It is unclear from the federal government's announcement whether the $20-million funding allocation is a one-time grant or is intended to reflect a commitment to annual federal funding for this purpose. I saw media reports just today that suggest it would be $4 million for each of five years. If we divide that up per capita, that would mean less than $200,000 a year for Manitoba. We already spend $8 million a year as a province, helping out victims of sexual exploitation.

I hope the government will reconsider this and provide ongoing funding. The needs of sexually exploited victims will be ongoing no matter how well this bill works. I would urge the Minister of Justice to consult provincial and territorial ministers to assess the level and type of federal funding that is critical to supporting long-term programming for sexually exploited victims across the country.

Mr. Chair, the appendix to the written submission describes Tracia’s Trust, which is Manitoba's strategy to assist victims of sexual exploitation. Again, Manitoba invests about $8 million per year. We look forward to meaningful, ongoing contributions from the federal government, and I promise that Manitoba will invest those contributions wisely.

In closing, I want to thank the committee for allowing me the opportunity to provide my comments on behalf of the people of Manitoba. I do urge the passage of Bill C-36, but with these important changes, so that we can change the dialogue and change the channel in this country and go after demand.

I do look forward to any questions you may have after the other presenters have had their opportunity to speak.

Thank you.

July 7th, 2014 / 3:35 p.m.
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Conservative

The Chair Conservative Mike Wallace

Hello, ladies and gentleman. I'm going to call our meeting of the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights to order.

This is our third meeting of the day, meeting number 34. It is televised. According to the order of reference on Monday, June 16, 2014, we are considering Bill C-36, An Act to amend the Criminal Code in response to the Supreme Court of Canada decision in Attorney General of Canada v. Bedford and to make consequential amendments to other Acts.

We have a number of witnesses with us today. I am going to introduce all of the witnesses and then we will go to each organization for 10 minutes. There will be rounds of questions afterwards.

From the Government of Manitoba, we have the Honourable Andrew Swan, Minister of Justice and Attorney General. Thank you for joining us, Minister.

From the Evangelical Fellowship of Canada, we have Julia Beazley. From Concertation des luttes contre l'exploitation sexuelle, we have Diane Matte and Rose Sullivan here with us. From the Sex Trafficking Survivors United, Natasha Falle is here. From Maggie's: The Toronto Sex Workers Action Project, Jean McDonald and Monica Forrester are here.

As the witnesses are here, we're going to start.

Minister Swan, the floor is yours for 10 minutes.

July 7th, 2014 / 2:50 p.m.
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Spokesperson, Canadian Alliance for Sex Work Law Reform

Émilie Laliberté

Actually it is not, because C-36 would shut down all the websites where I can advertise.

July 7th, 2014 / 2:50 p.m.
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Conservative

Bob Dechert Conservative Mississauga—Erindale, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I believe, Ms. Laliberté, what you were just describing and what you do is exactly what C-36 would allow. That's certainly my understanding.

July 7th, 2014 / 2:35 p.m.
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Conservative

Robert Goguen Conservative Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB

There's been some discussion of the charter, as would be expected. Of course, one of the things that Bill C-36 focuses on is the protection of those who are subjected to prostitution, violence, and exploitation, such as yourself.

A while ago, Mr. Russomanno said that in his view Bill C-36 was in breach of subsection 2(b), freedom of expression, and section 7, life, liberty and security of the person.

You were describing a scenario where you were being raped, I believe, by three Russians. Let's suppose that the police authorities had broken in and rescued you. Would your freedom of expression have been in any way breached? You couldn't possibly have been doing it freely.

July 7th, 2014 / 2:20 p.m.
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Conservative

Joy Smith Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to ask two questions, one to Professor Benedet and one to Timea Nagy.

Professor Benedet, can you make further comment about the constitutionality of the asymmetrical offence in Bill C-36, the purchase of sex, as opposed to the decriminalizing of the victim for the most part. Can you comment about the constitutionality of that and compare it to some of these others that are in the Criminal Code right now?

July 7th, 2014 / 2:05 p.m.
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Spokesperson, Canadian Alliance for Sex Work Law Reform

Émilie Laliberté

I agree with what Ms. Sayers said.

The prostitution reforms and the Bedford ruling have nothing to do with underage prostitution. You're trying to steer the debate away from the real issues and the content of Bill C-36.

July 7th, 2014 / 2:05 p.m.
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Spokesperson, Canadian Alliance for Sex Work Law Reform

Émilie Laliberté

How does your question relate to Bill C-36?

July 7th, 2014 / 2 p.m.
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NDP

Françoise Boivin NDP Gatineau, QC

Thank you.

I still have one last question, and it's for Mr. Russomanno.

Sorry if I made a mistake on your name.

I think you asked a question, and I'm going to send the question back hoping for an answer. How do you define sexual services in this Bill C-36? Is it clear to your mind, because as a lawyer I'm not sure I'm clear on the definition? There's no real definition. Could it cover, I don't know, lap dancing? What are we treating exactly with Bill C-36? Is it clear, and if it's not, isn't it a danger to bring that to the courts and will it be a good defence at some point in time?

July 7th, 2014 / 1:40 p.m.
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Prof. John Lowman

Thank you very much.

In addition to speaking today, I've submitted a written brief that is much more detailed. I'll review some of the material in that written brief and make some extra points.

To introduce myself, I've worked on various research projects on prostitution since 1977, mostly in British Columbia. I've done nine different studies for the Department of Justice Canada, and I was on the board of a service organization for sex workers on the Downtown Eastside, called PACE.

My main interest in speaking to Canadians about prostitution, and particularly legislators, is the hope that policy and legislation are based on reliable and accurate information. I'm hearing all sorts of claims made about research today, none of which would actually stand scrutiny.

Of course, research can't answer all of the problems that we're talking about, so I should also say what my own political value judgment is with regard to prostitution. I believe that the state should not prohibit consenting adult sexual activity, especially in situations where it endangers sex workers. I therefore disagree with those who say that 90% of prostitution doesn't involve choice, although much of it involves highly constrained choice. Some prostitution is entirely opportunistic. Some is sexual slavery, and the law should criminalize sexual slavery in every circumstance that it should occur.

However, like most service and manual workers, sex workers make the choice to prostitute in situations that they do not choose, i.e., the capitalist political economy, colonialism, gender power structures, racism, and so on. The vast majority of the population make those choices in situations that they do not choose, but we don't see criminal law as the solution to those inequalities.

Let me start by saying a few things about evidence claims on which the prohibitionist position is based. I've heard it said again here today that the average age of entering into prostitution is 14. In my written brief I've reviewed the literature, and I've also gone over the review of the literature that was conducted in Bedford v. Canada. That is a preposterous claim. There is only one piece of research that supports it. It is a study of juveniles; it excluded adults. If you look at the research, which includes both adults and juveniles, the average age is generally 18 or well above that.

You also see examples of prohibitionist discourse using certain kinds of research and then generalizing it as if it represents prostitution more generally. You'll often hear Melissa Farley's research quoted, as indeed is Joy Smith's “The Tipping Point”. She talks about 100 Canadian sex workers and what their profiles look like.

The women on the Downtown Eastside do not represent prostitution more generally. The research literature says that most women are not trafficked. Obviously there are many different experiences, and some of them are truly awful. However, if we want to talk about the nature of prostitution across the whole of it, we need to understand that there are many different kinds of prostitution.

I would also note that Farley's work, which is often quoted by prohibitionists, was also entered into Bedford v. Canada. Justice Himel concluded that Farley's advocacy contaminated her research. I think that bears repeating.

Let me say something about the logic of demand-side prohibition. Demand causes prostitution, it is argued, so therefore if you get rid of demand, ultimately you will get rid of supply. It ignores economics 101. Supply and demand interact. We live in a culture that commodifies female and male sexuality at every turn. Explicit sexual imagery is only a few key strokes away, and our culture produces the demand for sex. It similarly produces sexual capital on which supply rests. Race, class, and gender structures mean that sexual capital is the only capital available for some people.

Let's take economics 101 and look at what it would do for the made-in-Canada approach to prostitution prohibition. In one of the first studies of prostitution conducted in Canada, when clients were asked what prompted them to purchase sex, 41% of respondents said it was the availability and/or visibility of sex workers.

Although the protection of communities and exploited persons act prohibits third-party profit from prostitution, its section prohibiting advertising exempts a person advertising sexual services on their own behalf. Demand-side prohibition holds that the state should not hold sex sellers criminally responsible because they are victims of men. However, as much as prohibitionists deny that sex workers ever exercise choice, many and I would suspect most sex workers don't agree that they are one-sided and only victims, even if some of them are victimized. They see themselves as agents acting on their own behalf, taking advantage of their sexual capital. They do not want to exit prostitution unless they do so on their own terms. Consequently, they will continue to advertise and sell sexual services, and legally so under the new regime. However, anyone who takes the bait will have the force of criminal law brought to bear against them, in which case they say the made-in-Canada prohibition amounts to state-sponsored entrapment of men.

Asymmetrical prohibition will be subject to a section 15 challenge because it criminalizes mostly male sex purchases but not sex sellers, the large majority of whom are female. A section 15 challenge was coming down the pipe in the Pivot charter challenge, by the way. That issue was going to be argued if that challenge had proceeded.

What about supply? Demand is a necessary but not sufficient condition of prostitution. Focusing on demand means that the state will not have to address the factors that produce supply, we just blame the men. So colonialism, poverty, substance addiction, unemployment, gender employment structures, economic opportunity structures, and a culture that produces sexual capital will be left as they are.

For the people who rely on their sexual capital to subsist, demand-side prohibition will only exacerbate their problems, not least because patterns of law enforcement will not change. Since 1985, when the communicating law was enacted until the law struck it down, 93% of all prostitutions charges were a street prostitution offence. Two main factors produced this enforcement pattern.

First, it reflects patterns of complaints police receive about prostitution. Nearly all of them are about the street trade. Indeed, in every public opinion survey ever conducted, one area of clear consensus—and of course Canadians are deeply divided over the legal status of prostitution—is that prostitutes shouldn't be on the street. Of those polled in the June Angus Reid survey, which also shows that the majority of Canadians do not support Bill C-36 by the way, 89% of Canadians in that poll said that prostitution should not be on the street.

The second main factor explaining that law enforcement profile is the difficulty of “procuring bawdy house/living on the avails” charges. They are time-wasting. It's difficult to get evidence. Convictions were difficult, not least because sex workers have no interest in testifying against the people with whom they work. Police also knew that charges against off-street locations would reproduce exactly the same problems that put prostitution on the street in Toronto and Vancouver in the 1970s, when police closed down off-street prostitution.

How much would that pattern of enforcement change under the new law? It wouldn't change very much. That is because, if we look at Sweden, most of enforcement, especially during the first years, was against people on the street. What are the police going to do in Canada to enforce this law against off-street clients? Are they going to set up bogus escort services? Massage parlours? Are they going to entrap people?

We come to a legislative Gordian knot. I too am opposed to the legislation, which talks about criminalizing a sex worker “in a public place, or in any place open to public view...where persons under the age of 18 can reasonably be expected to be present”. We heard the way to deal with the problem of street prostitution was to prosecute the clients, and we heard Mr. Pickton's name mentioned.

As it happens, in the 1990s, the police in Vancouver deliberately set up a red light district in an industrial area. They deliberately had a policy. There was a news release, and I can send you a copy if you'd like. Their entire objective was not to lay charges against the women but to focus entirely on the men who buy sex. That particular area, the red light district—that industrial zone—which is where this particular provision of the legislation would try to force prostitution, became the killing field of Vancouver. That's where Mr. Pickton picked up most of his victims. That's how successful this kind of legislative regime was when it was tried in Vancouver, as it was in the 1990s.

July 7th, 2014 / 1:30 p.m.
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Professor Janine Benedet Associate Professor, University of British Columbia, As an Individual

Thank you very much.

I'm here today as a law professor and also as a lawyer who has spent the past two decades researching, teaching, and advocating for sex equality under Canadian law, with a particular focus on sexual violence against women and girls, including prostitution.

As the chair mentioned I am currently a faculty member at the UBC faculty of law and a member of the Ontario and British Columbia bars, and I provide pro bono legal services to women's groups. I represented a national coalition of seven women's groups in their intervention before the Ontario Court of Appeal and the Supreme Court of Canada in the Bedford litigation.

I'm here to testify in support of the provisions of Bill C-36 that criminalize the purchasers of sex and also criminalize exploitative profiteering from the prostitution of others as well as advertisers.

I'm also here to oppose the provision that criminalizes those who communicate for the purpose of selling sex in areas where young people are likely to be present. I've read the provisions of Bill C-36 closely, and overall I would say this bill represents and reflects a very positive and fundamental shift in our collective thinking about prostitution, moving away from thinking about prostitution as a question of mere morals or nuisance and toward an understanding of prostitution as a practice of sex inequality and a form of violence and exploitation against women and girls.

I think the government has recognized correctly in my view the overwhelming evidence that the global prostitution industry is not primarily a series of individual contractual exchanges between equal parties, but a profitable industry that profits from the outsourcing of sexual subordination of the most disadvantaged women and youth among us.

Unfortunately some criminalization has been maintained for women on the street in this bill who are disproportionately aboriginal women, and this provision I would say is inconsistent with the thrust of the rest of the bill.

Let me say a few things in particular about proposed section 286.1, the provision that would criminalize the purchase of sex. I want to be clear here constitutionally that when we talk about security of the person, the person who is criminalized by this provision is the john, the buyer, and his security of the person is not at issue here through this criminalization. He's the source of the danger to women.

I think one of the important features of this provision is that it has been grouped with offences against the person in the Criminal Code, which makes clear that the act of buying sex in any location is a criminal act that is a form of exploitation and violence. I think that strengthens its constitutionality. That was not the case in the prior version of the code where the prohibitions on johns were partial, location-based, and grounded in nuisance concerns.

The argument I hear raised most often in opposition to this position is that criminalizing the purchase of sex is unconstitutional because it pushes prostitution underground. I think there is something ironic about the argument that men must be allowed as a constitutional right unrestricted opportunity to buy women to keep women safe from those very same men.

To attack that argument a little more directly, I want to say to you that most fundamentally prostitution is at its most underground when it is completely decriminalized. As for the New Zealand approach we keep hearing being touted, so long as the brothel has fewer than five women it doesn't need a certificate, and it operates entirely invisibly, outside the reach of law and other interventions. It's entirely under the radar.

The second thing is that visible prostitution is not necessarily safe, healthy, or equality promoting, and the prison camp bunny ranches of Nevada, or the megabrothels of Germany are two good examples of that.

But third and most importantly I would say this argument at its heart is really disingenuous. It's the same old claim about choice that completely ignores inequality but is now masquerading as an argument about safety. I realize that's a pretty harsh-sounding statement to make, but to explain why I say that let me just speak for a moment about youth prostitution and the criminal offence of communicating for the purposes of obtaining sexual services from a person under the age of 18. That's section 212.4 in the current Criminal Code. It wasn't challenged in Bedford. It will reappear under the new bill renumbered as proposed subsection 286.1(2), I think.

It's a crime to buy a young person for sex, including through communicating for that purpose.

No one seems to be disputing the continued existence of that provision or questioning its constitutionality. It criminalizes exactly the same conduct as in proposed section 286.1, in very much the same language, and I'm confident that no one is going to come before this committee and ask you to repeal that section because it makes kids unsafe by pushing youth prostitution underground.They will not say we should acknowledge that youth prostitution is inevitable, and that we should decriminalize the guys who buy kids because it will make the young people safer. They'll be visible. They can communicate. We can reach out to them.

They will not argue that section 7 of the charter requires that men be allowed to buy kids for sex, and there is a lot more to it than just saying adults aren't children. It's because we believe that young people lack the capacity to consent because of an inequality based on age, but the reality is that for young people in prostitution there are many other inequalities at work, some combination usually of gender, the effects of colonialism, poverty, and addiction.

When that inequality of age is no longer present, some people refuse to see any of the other inequalities that are so prevalent in prostitution, even when the prostitute, who is now an adult, started as a child. The fact that women in prostitution are overwhelmingly poor, that so many of them are racialized, trafficked to meet male demand, struggle with addictions, with intellectual disabilities and the after-effects of being placed in state care, these inequalities count for zero so long as the woman is 18 or older and is willing to take the money.

Yet the Supreme Court of Canada did make clear in its decision in Bedford that many of those in prostitution cannot be said to be there by any real definition of choice, and that our law and policy responses ought to be focused on those women.

We don't say that the criminal law that prohibits purchasing young people for sex hasn't eliminated youth prostitution so it's useless and should be repealed, because we understand, just like the laws on sexual assault, just like the laws on wife battering, that the criminal law is there to serve a very particular, denunciatory purpose. It has a very real and important goal, but that it's not the only piece of what we're trying to do in addressing a complex social problem. You will never address that problem if you decriminalize prostitution and normalize it, and that's true in any country that has experimented with exactly that route.

The final thing I'll say about the analysis we have heard today is, yes, we do have to think about section 7 of the charter, but we also have to think about section 15, the equality rights provision, which was studiously kept out of the analysis in the Bedford case. Now we have a bill that makes clear right in its stated objectives that equality and equality for women and girls is an important consideration when thinking about prostitution. That, in my view, means that equality in section 15 can no longer be ignored in the constitutional analysis.

I'll just conclude by saying something very briefly about the provision under proposed subsection 213(1.1), the sale of sexual services where young people are expected to be present. I think this provision is misguided. I do not think that the law should be making a distinction based on location if we understand the act of the purchasing of women to be an act of exploitation. It just punishes women for being exploited in the wrong location. It returns us to an approach rooted in nuisance. It's not really about protecting children because it doesn't criminalize women who are prostituted in front of children in a private place, only in a public place.

I understand the concern about the prostitute being there on a residential street and what can we do if we don't have this kind of provision to move her along, but of course the police can do something because they now have the provision that criminalizes purchase. Use that provision to target the johns. That's how you deal with prostitution on the street. That's how we should have dealt with Pickton, a known john whom the police simply refused to arrest wherever he picked up women: on the streets, in the drop-in centres, in the bars of the Downtown Eastside. The issue is not just displacing women to other locations. It's the refusal to interfere with the purchase of sex by johns.

That provision really needs to be rethought, and ultimately, if it is removed from the bill, it will strengthen the constitutionality of this proposed legislation.

I'll stop there.

July 7th, 2014 / 1:20 p.m.
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Member and Criminal Defence Counsel, Criminal Lawyers' Association

Leonardo S. Russomanno

I'd like to thank you, Mr. Chair, for having us here. It's obviously very important that we have this dialogue on a very important piece of legislation.

The Criminal Lawyers' Association focuses on the constitutional aspects of Bill C-36, and in particular whether it may survive a section 7 or a section 2(b) freedom of expression constitutional challenge. On that basis, we are opposed to this legislation. In our view, Bill C-36 is bad policy and bad law. The evidence that was heard at the application level that was unanimously accepted by the Supreme Court of Canada is indisputable. That evidence is unchanged with respect to Bill C-36 and what it seeks to do. Regardless of the loftier legislative objectives of Bill C-36, the same harms remain when one takes the approach of asymmetric criminalization, in my respectful view.

In advocacy in our court rooms, lawyers like to think about facts as whether they are challengeable or indisputable. When you have facts for evidence that cannot be moved, that's indisputable, then you have to absorb that evidence. You can't ignore it. It comes to mind when we look at the evidence that was heard in the Bedford application and that was unanimously accepted by the Supreme Court of Canada.

It's beyond a shadow of a doubt that criminalizing the sex trade contributes to harm for sex workers. We're talking about the most vulnerable people in our society, especially when it comes to sex workers who are in the street, and this legislation does absolutely nothing in my view to address that problem.

The objectives that are stated in Bill C-36 are quite different from what was seen in the Bedford case. Instead of a primarily nuisance reduction objective that we saw in previous legislation, we have these loftier objectives of eradicating prostitution itself, of discouraging people from entering the sex trade, of protecting sex workers themselves, of encouraging sex workers to go to the police when they suffer from acts of violence. This bill is trying to eradicate the sex trade itself.

Something that doesn't connect with me is that it's trying to protect sex workers by driving them underground, by pushing them into the dark alleyways, by pushing them away from public view. There was already evidence about what means sex workers employ to protect themselves. For example, communication and how sex workers screen potential clients to avoid potentially dangerous situations. The provisions in Bill C-36 in my view do not do anything to address these harms, and the harms will continue.

Now we have a new setting where we have the same ill effects, but we have loftier objectives. So I'm going to try to word this in terms of a section 7 challenge, because that seems to me a primary avenue of challenge. As we know in the previous legislation there was a challenge under section 7 on the basis of gross disproportionality and overbreadth. So we look at any section 7 challenge in two parts. First, does the legislation deprive the applicant of life, liberty, or security of the person? In my view, it's established fact that criminalizing the sex trade does deprive sex workers of their right to security of the person.

Now we look at whether or not that is how it's related to the objectives of the legislation. So under the previous legislation we had, for example, for communicating in public or keeping a common bawdy house, the objectives of reducing nuisance in neighbourhood disruptions, and the court reached a rather easy conclusion in my view that when you compare those two, when you compare the objective of reducing nuisance to the effect of actually contributing to the harm that's visited upon sex workers, that's just no contest. The court found very easily in my view that the effects were grossly disproportionate to the legislative objective.

Now we have a loftier set of objectives, which we've seen in the academic literature, and we've drawn heavily upon in our research. Academics have referred to the InSite decision, the safe injection decision, when looking at the principle of fundamental justice of arbitrariness. So once we've established that there's been a deprivation of security of the person, is that deprivation in accordance with the principles of fundamental justice? In my view, this legislation is vulnerable to a challenge on the basis that it's not only grossly disproportionate to the albeit loftier objectives, but it's also arbitrary. In other words, the goal in no way bears any relation to the effects.

The goal of public safety, the goal of encouraging sex workers to report incidents of violence to the police, is in no way going to be realized. The evidence is clear that when sex workers are not permitted to communicate—this is a primary mechanism that they use to protect themselves—for those who are most vulnerable, those who are in the street, that is going to contribute to the danger. That will lead to a finding of arbitrariness, in my view.

This is something that an academic mentioned in an article recently in The Globe and Mail. Kyle Kirkup, who is a lawyer and doctoral candidate at U of T wrote, “Got a complex social issue? There’s a prison for that”. That is the overriding sense that I get from this legislation. The criminal justice system is a very blunt tool, and it's simply not equipped to deal with this very complex social issue.

The other challenge that is ripe for reconsideration is under subsection 2(b), freedom of expression. This was last challenged in a 1990 case—the prostitution reference. The Supreme Court, in Bedford, has indicated there is a possibility that cases that have been previously decided by that court may be reconsidered when faced with new facts and arguments.

When one looks at a subsection 2(b) challenge, you are really looking at what underlying value can be seen from the form of expression. The kind of expression that we're looking at, communicating in public, is protective expression. This isn't just commercial speech. Again, the evidence is very clear. Sex workers communicate in order to protect themselves. In my view, this goes to the core values that underlie the freedom of expression that we are all supposed to be guaranteed.

It comes down to whether it would survive a section 1 challenge. In my view, it would fail to do so on the basis that it's not proportionate at all, that it will further contribute to the harms visited upon sex workers.

How does Bill C-36 protect the most vulnerable in our society? It doesn't do that. In my view, it simply adds to the harm that's visited upon sex workers.

What is the evidence? The evidence is that it contributes to the harm. As a society, I think we have an obligation to protect those who are most vulnerable. Bill C-36 utterly fails to do that.

Thank you.

July 7th, 2014 / 1:15 p.m.
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Naomi Sayers Spokesperson, Canadian Alliance for Sex Work Law Reform

Thanks, Émilie.

My name is Naomi Sayers. My group is South Western Ontario Sex Workers, which is a member of the Canadian Alliance for Sex Work Law Reform. I am an indigenous woman from northern Ontario and a former sex worker with experience in working both in northern and southern Ontario. I will elaborate on how Bill C-36 negatively impacts indigenous women, and will finish with recommendations for moving forward.

We make it clear from the outset that we do not support Bill C-36 or the use of criminal laws that target sex work. We propose, instead, a process that meaningfully includes people who work in the sex industry, and that includes labour and regulatory measures that prioritize safety.

Canada's greatest social injustice is the issue of missing and murdered indigenous women. Other witnesses will argue that the criminal laws against clients and third parties will protect indigenous women from going missing and murdered. We argue the opposite. Not only does this flawed argument ignore the fact that not all missing and murdered indigenous women do not work in the sex trade, it also ignores the fact that they experience institutional and systemic violence as indigenous women, especially the state's role in making a sex worker vulnerable to violence, such as Chief Justice McLachlin highlighted in her decision.

Wally Oppal, in his missing women inquiry report, also recognizes this when he states that the marginalization of women is due to the “retrenchment of social assistance programs, the ongoing effects of colonialism, and” —I emphasize—“the criminal regulation of prostitution and related law enforcement strategies.”

The Chief Justice reiterates the harmful effects of criminal regulation of prostitution when she states that the criminal laws not only impose conditions on how prostitutes operate but also the laws “go a critical step further, by imposing dangerous conditions on prostitution”. This reminds us to respect the spirit of the Bedford decision and that our objectives need to prioritize the health and safety of people working in the trade, not the elimination of the industry.

The criminalization of clients, in Bill C-36, has devastating impacts for indigenous women who rely on income generated from prostitution, particularly in the context of inadequate housing, social services, or education. Indigenous women will seek out clients in more dangerous areas, and clients will rush negotiations, putting women at risk. The isolation and inability to screen clients for safety contributes to the rising violence against sex workers. Indigenous women are already targeted by aggressors, as seen for over 20 years in Vancouver's Downtown Eastside. The Chief Justice wrote, “If screening could have prevented one woman from jumping into Robert Pickton's car, the severity of the harmful effects is established.”

Trafficking has also been raised in the discussion of the bill. While exploitation happens in the context of trafficking, Bill C-36 does not distinguish between exploitation and prostitution. It assumes that prostitution is exploitation. The Chief Justice highlighted that the old laws were overbroad and that conflating prostitution with human trafficking does an injustice to the victims of exploitation.

The Global Alliance Against Traffic in Women, an organization that prioritizes trafficking victims, highlights that criminalizing clients diverts precious resources from protecting victims of trafficking who urgently need help into a politically contested and futile anti-prostitution campaign, and that criminalizing clients ignores the structural issues that cause forced labour, thereby distracting from the government's responsibility to victims of exploitation.

Consequently, we argue for the use of current existing criminal laws that address exploitation rather than reframing prostitution as exploitation, itself. More importantly, Bill C-268 made further amendments to the Criminal Code to combat human trafficking related to children. This bill received assent on June 29, 2010. As the Global Alliance Against Traffic in Women asserts, conflating exploitation with prostitution ignores structural issues contributing to forced labour and diverts resources away from victims of exploitation and toward a highly politicized and futile anti-prostitution campaign.

We argue that we need to adopt a model respecting Canadian values entrenched within the charter. We recommend adopting a rights-based approach, like the New Zealand model, to protect the most vulnerable and marginalized groups in society. In 2003 prostitution was no longer regulated by criminal law in New Zealand. The trade is regulated through labour laws and occupational health and safety standards. New Zealand's sex workers find it easier to report incidents of violence to police, with police taking reports of violence seriously. Additionally, since 2004 New Zealand maintains their tier 1 ranking status, the highest and most favourable status for combatting trafficking, as reported by the United States' 2013 Trafficking in Persons Report.

We should focus on investing into resources, social supports, and sex worker-led organizations that work directly with sex workers to protect the safety of sex workers. The goal should be to ensure the safety and protection of all women in the trade by utilizing already existing Criminal Code sections.

Despite what people may feel about prostitution, the reality is that people will continue to work in the sex trade. In the context of Bill C-36, they will be at risk of more violence. Bedford demonstrated this risk. We hope the government will recognize this and prioritize health and safety.

July 7th, 2014 / 1:15 p.m.
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Spokesperson, Canadian Alliance for Sex Work Law Reform

Émilie Laliberté

Thank you.

This moralistic view has produced a bill that, in its current form, in no way addresses the concerns raised by the Supreme Court of Canada. Nor does it comply with the spirit of the Bedford ruling, the intent of which was to allow the implementation of safety measures that are necessary to protect us.

On the contrary, the proposed reforms do the same harm and are actually more repressive because they target the sex industry as a whole. Consequently, we are being denied the ability to put any safety measures in place, not to mention our constitutional rights to equality, life, liberty and security, as well as freedom of expression and association.

Bill C-36 will produce the same harmful effects, or worse, because it upholds the objectives of the provisions deemed unconstitutional in Bedford.

Let's look at the impact proposed section 213(1.1) would have. Unlike the previous section, which applied to any public place, the new provision would apply only to a public place where persons under the age of 18 could be present. Given that young people under the age of 18 can be expected to be present in a wide variety of public places, the scope of the legislation remains very broad and could also extend to places where sex workers see their clients. Mr. MacKay even said that the provision applied to hotels, even though they are places where sex workers conduct their business.

The result of the reforms will be virtually identical to that of the provisions deemed unconstitutional under section 7 of the charter. They will create dangerous conditions because they fail to take into account the movement of sex workers or their ability to communicate for the purpose of screening potential clients to protect themselves and establish clear agreements. The new legislation will not respect our constitutional right to life, liberty and security.

Now let's turn to proposed section 286.1. The effects that criminalizing our clients has on our lives and our work are already known. Clients were already subject to criminal offences under sections 210 and 213. What criminalizing clients does is increase violent behaviour. Sex workers linger on street corners longer, end up agreeing to take clients they would have otherwise refused and offer services that go beyond what they are capable of providing, and all for less money. And above all, they are subjected to more violent behaviour that can even result in their death. If this new section comes into force, clients will no longer tell us any personal information about themselves, a vital part of protecting ourselves from those who would do us harm. This approach goes against the Bedford ruling, because it criminalizes both our working and personal relationships, while violating our right to personal security.

New sections 286.2 and 286.3(1) are, to some degree, more restrictive versions of the previous offence of living on the avails of prostitution. The ability to work together and to hire security guards is, however, a key part of doing that. The provisions are far-reaching and violate not just our safety, but also the provision repealed in the Bedford ruling. Third parties are needed to ensure our safety, and they play an important role in helping us avoid isolation.

New section 286.4 could apply to sex workers who work together and jointly advertise their sexual services. Without newspaper, online and other types of advertising, we are left with very few ways of working safely in private settings, in addition to being even more isolated. Thus, the provision goes against the Bedford ruling, which clearly stipulates that our ability to work in safer indoor private locations is paramount in minimizing risks. Web sites where we post ads provide us with a wealth of information, including information on bad clients. They also allow us to talk to others about safety measures, conduct client reference checks and share information on third parties for hire and their services, all of which are vital to ensuring our safety.

July 7th, 2014 / 1:10 p.m.
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Émilie Laliberté Spokesperson, Canadian Alliance for Sex Work Law Reform

Good afternoon.

My name is Émilie Laliberté, and I am a sex worker. I am here as the francophone spokesperson for the Canadian Alliance for Sex Work Law Reform.

Sex workers have not really been made the focus of these reforms, even though they will result in legislation that will have a direct impact on our working conditions and lives. Only three sex workers were at the table when Minister MacKay held private consultations on March 3. The minister made it very clear that he did not intend to consult with Canada's sex workers.

The content and terminology of Bill C-36, as well as the minister's statements on the matter, clearly show that the government is pursuing a moral objective above all else, by criminalizing a practice it deems shameful and exploitative, even when the adults who engage in the activity are consenting. Instead of using the extensive body of clear evidence demonstrating the detrimental impact of criminalizing prostitution, both here and around the world, as the basis for Bill C-36, lawmakers have opted for reforms that are ideologically based. They are also premised on the view that we are victims and should be treated like children. Lawmakers have failed to recognize our independence in making intrinsically personal decisions and our ability to consent.

This moralistic view has produced a bill—

July 7th, 2014 / 1:05 p.m.
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Chair, Walk With Me Canada Victim Services

Robert Hooper

Thank you.

On behalf of Walk With Me Canada, we support Bill C-36. We think that the abolition of the purchase of sexual services is germane to the ability to curtail human trafficking in this country. All of the research we have seen, both anecdotally and quantitatively, shows that demand is directly linked to trafficking. Therefore, we applaud the sections that criminalize the purchase of sex in this country, given that our front-line work is on human trafficking.

The second thing is that having the person delivering the sexual service criminalized is not something we can support in any great way, other than in the school or religious setting, as set out in Bill C-36. From our perspective, over 70% of the people who use our service come through a police link. Therefore, if there is no trust in that triangle of police, the person in the sexually exploited situation, and our organization, the exit strategy, in our view, will fail.

One of the things that is not covered in the bill, which is in our paper, is that we would like this committee to consider the recruitment of children. I'll give you three fast statistics from research that we have uncovered.

A study of nine countries says that 47% of people who enter prostitution do so at an age under 18. That's when they enter the work. A study recently released by the Alliance Against Modern Slavery says that at least 43% of people in Canada who enter are under the age of 18, and that includes a section on forced marriage. There was a study done by the Canadian government, in 2004, that showed that the mean age of entry into prostitution in Canada was 14 years old.

Those studies are readily available, one of them being done in 2004 by the Government of Canada.

In our paper we've set out some very good reasons why this committee should consider an amendment much like the provincial sections for protection of children who are vulnerable, so that they can be apprehended—not criminalized but apprehended—by the authorities. We don't allow people to drink and smoke in this country at 14, but apparently they can enter prostitution. You can't vote and you can't drink. We can't see why there shouldn't be an amendment that would allow children under the age of 18 who are found in prostitution to be apprehended as children in need of protection.

The last thing in my time—I'm probably over—is the $20 million. We want to encourage this committee to be serious about the money that's put into the exit strategy. When you compare Sweden and Norway, which are slightly different models, Norway put no money into exit and Sweden did. If you read the research, the results are very different for the exit strategy.

I would encourage the committee and the government to look at those issues and that we be very serious about it. I may be speaking from a bit of a partisan position, in that we're front-line workers—I'm not, but I'm the chair of a front-line worker organization, and certainly I've heard many versions on the subject of exit strategy. A holistic approach has to be taken, from re-education to recovery to counselling. There are lots of studies that say when you come out of a prostituted trafficking situation, it is similar to war veterans and post-traumatic stress disorder.

There isn't a difference between prostitution and human trafficking in our organization's view. The demand for prostitution is directly linked to the financial gain of traffickers. If there is no demand in this country, then it is our view that trafficking will be reduced, and maybe that will put us out of business. We'd be happy to go out of business, Mr. Chair, if that were the circumstance.

We have looked at it constitutionally, and we think this does meet the section 7 requirements.

We've had section 1, the notwithstanding clause, looked at by people in our organization, and we think Bill C-36 is sound. With the amendment regarding children, we support the legislation.

July 7th, 2014 / 1 p.m.
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Timea E. Nagy Founder and Front-Line Victim Care Worker, Walk With Me Canada Victim Services

I'm a survivor of sex trafficking, and a founder and front-line worker for Walk With Me, an organization that has been working 24-7 on the ground with victims of sex slavery for the last four years here in Canada. Of these victims, 90% were Canadian girls between the ages of 15 and 21 who were rescued from domestic sex trafficking.

I originally entered the sex industry when I was forced into it by traffickers. Sometime after my rescue I went back to the business for a few months, responding to a huge financial crisis. I already knew what I had gotten myself into and I voluntarily returned, but my choice to prostitute myself was to make a living, to avoid becoming homeless, and to be able to put food on my table.

In the media these days we hear the voices of women sex workers who demand their human rights be respected in their choice of work. Those women represent a small percentage of women in prostitution. Studies estimate the number of women voluntarily making an informed choice to do sex work is between 1% to 10%.

I speak for the other 90% of prostituted women and men whose voices are largely not being heard in this debate precisely because they are still trafficked and they are still forced to do this work. I speak for the 60% to 95% of women in the sex trade, based on numerous studies, who were sexually molested or assaulted as children. I was sexually molested between the ages of 12 and 17, and that background sets you up to be abused again.

I speak for the 70% to 95% of people who were physically assaulted while in sex work. My first encounter when I was sex trafficked was in a massage place where three Russian men entered the room, and I more or less just became meat. Three men started to take pieces out of me. I was lying on this very cold massage table and I closed my eyes and I looked up and I wondered if anyone had seen this and would anyone rescue me, only to find out later my so-called bodyguard was watching the whole thing on video.

I was indoors. It was safe. They paid for their services, but nobody told me the rules because I was new to it, so I was raped for about an hour by three different men.

I speak for the hundreds of Canadian girls I have met and talked to and rescued in the last four years who have been and continue to be raped, violated, and exploited against their will.

First of all prostitution is not a profession. It's an oppression. Ninety per cent of the time it's the only job in the world where you can go to work and every day there's a chance you could be killed or hurt by your employer, the johns, or the pimps. The dangers inherent in sex work are well documented in research.

Prostitution always involves the imbalance between a customer who pays to have their pleasure met and a person who is hired to act like a sex puppet. Prostitution is rarely if ever about two consenting adults. For example, a husband and father of three children is highly unlikely to go to his wife and kids and ask for their consent for daddy to be able to have unprotected sex that evening with a prostitute. Again, there are absolutely no laws protecting the wife and children from the ripple effects that come afterwards.

I speak for the vast majority of people in the sex trade for whom this is not a free choice among many choices but for whom it is indeed an issue of human rights, rights of liberty, equality, dignity, safety—all of which are being ripped from us on a daily basis.

There does not appear to be a perfect answer in this debate. The rights of some will be curtailed to support the rights of others. Sometimes that is what laws are forced to do. The only way they can be encouraged to seek help is by decriminalizing their part in prostitution and by creating an environment of safety and support that gives them viable exit options. The legislation attempts to do that.

Two groups of people are impacted most by this legislation. Pro-prostitution advocates speak loudly and with resources behind them, but there is the other voice of those trapped and tortured that needs to be heard as well, and they deserve to be protected by this country.

Trafficked men and women and those who would rather do something else if they had a viable choice don't have the same voice. We need the Government of Canada to be that voice for them, and we believe that Bill C-36 is the legislation that will protect our most vulnerable.

Thank you.

July 7th, 2014 / 1 p.m.
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Conservative

The Chair Conservative Mike Wallace

Good afternoon, everyone.

This is the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights, meeting 33. We had meeting 32 not that long ago.

As per the orders of the day, pursuant to the order of reference of Monday, June 16, 2014, this is Bill C-36, an act to amend the Criminal Code in response to the Supreme Court of Canada decision in Attorney General of Canada v. Bedford and to make consequential amendments to other acts.

We have a number of witnesses. Welcome.

I'm going to introduce the witnesses and then we will proceed in the order presented on the agenda in front of us. Each organization only gets 10 minutes—it's not 10 minutes each but 10 minutes per organization—and then there will be the question-and-answer period.

Let me introduce the witnesses.

Walk With Me Canada Victims Services is here, with Mr. Hooper, who is the chair, and Ms. Nagy, who is the founder and a front-line victim care worker. We have the Canadian Alliance for Sex Work Law Reform; Émilie Laliberté and Naomi Sayers are here as spokespersons. We have the Criminal Lawyers' Association, with Leonardo Russomanno, criminal defence counsel, and Anne London-Weinstein, director on the board of directors. As an individual, we have Professor Benedet, from the University of British Columbia. As well, from the school of criminology at Simon Fraser University, we have Professor Lowman, who is joining us by video conference.

Welcome everyone. Each organization has 10 minutes.

First to start is Walk With Me Canada Victims Services.

July 7th, 2014 / 11:25 a.m.
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Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section, Department of Justice

Nathalie Levman

Perhaps it would be helpful to the committee to review paragraph 165 of the Supreme Court of Canada's Bedford decision, which talks about how all prostitution provisions are interrelated and intertwined. The Supreme Court is asking us not just to look at what is criminalized, but also what is not criminalized. That informs the constitutionality of each individual provision. I think that your comments are fair. We have to look at the other aspects where Bill C-36 says it doesn't prevent certain safety measures when we look at another provision that criminalizes other aspects of prostitution.

July 7th, 2014 / 11:20 a.m.
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Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Policy Sector, Department of Justice

Donald Piragoff

Under the existing law, two persons under the age of 18 could be arrested and charged under the Young Offenders Act. Under the new Bill C-36 whether they're together or whether they're alone, what matters is whether they are soliciting in a place where there's a reasonable expectation that children would be present. That's the test. It's not whether children are actually present or not.

July 7th, 2014 / 11:20 a.m.
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Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section, Department of Justice

Nathalie Levman

You're right. The bill is clear that because one of the main objectives is to reduce prostitution, deter it, and discourage it, purchasing and communicating for that purpose is criminalized in all places, which is consistent with the objectives of the bill to reduce prostitution itself. A lot of balancing of interests is going on in Bill C-36, and it has to take into consideration many different safety issues.

July 7th, 2014 / 11:15 a.m.
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Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section, Department of Justice

Nathalie Levman

As I said, if the third party who was present falls within a legislative exception and the people are working cooperatively together and the only benefit they are receiving from the others is the safety of proximity, Bill C-36 does not criminalize anyone in that scenario.

July 7th, 2014 / 11:15 a.m.
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Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section, Department of Justice

Nathalie Levman

I think we have to be careful to read the bill with all of its component parts. We have a legislative exception that would apply to a person who offers, let's say, protective services. If people were working cooperatively together and they all contributed a portion towards the protective services that were provided, at a fair value, and that person wasn't at all involved in the prostitution other than acting as a body guard, Bill C-36 would not apply to that scenario.

July 7th, 2014 / 11:15 a.m.
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Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section, Department of Justice

Nathalie Levman

You're talking about working cooperatively together whereby the only benefit received results from the sale of one's own sexual services. The answer is that Bill C-36 does not criminalize that scenario.

July 7th, 2014 / 11:10 a.m.
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Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Policy Sector, Department of Justice

Donald Piragoff

Bill C-36 removes the inherent limitations in the existing definition of bawdy house by deleting those limitations, and essentially would allow a sex worker, either alone or collectively with other persons, to carry out activity in a fixed indoor location, provided there is no exploitation or commercialization of any of the individuals involved.

Also, the bill, through the exemptions that Ms. Levman mentioned, would permit a person to rent a place. In Sweden, under the strict Nordic model, persons cannot rent an apartment or hotel room because of the fear that the landlord could be charged. This bill would provide that the sellers of sexual services could purchase any service that is available on the market, like any other person could. They could rent a place. They could deal with pharmacists. They could deal with doctors. They could hire protective services, just like anyone could hire a protective service that is available to the general public if they felt they needed it. The bill specifically deals with the safety deficiencies that the Supreme Court found within the existing law.

I might add that the existing law, of course, is a situation where the sale and purchase of sex is a legal activity. This is providing this protection even though the activity is an illegal activity. This bill actually goes beyond. It says that even though the activity is illegal, this is going to afford protection to sellers of sexual services. It goes beyond what was required by Bedford.

Bedford was dealing with a situation where the activity was legal, and they were asking how you can endanger people who are involved in a legal activity. Now, under Bill C-36, it will be an illegal activity, but Bill C-36 will still provide these people with protection.

July 7th, 2014 / 11:10 a.m.
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Conservative

Bob Dechert Conservative Mississauga—Erindale, ON

It sounds to me that if you take the coercion and the undue profiteering of others out of the mix, it will certainly make the lives of the people who are in this business easier and perhaps give them other choices.

Mr. Piragoff, can you outline in a nutshell why you think Bill C-36 addresses the concerns of the Supreme Court in the Bedford decision with respect to the safety and security of the individuals involved in prostitution under section 7 of the charter? Can you just give us in a nutshell why you think this bill is constitutional and will withstand a charter challenge on the provisions laid out by the Supreme Court in Bedford.

July 7th, 2014 / 11:05 a.m.
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Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section, Department of Justice

Nathalie Levman

As the minister said, those exceptions ensure that people who sell their own sexual services can develop legitimate family and business relationships, just the same as you or I. It has a number of different exceptions. I think what you're referring to is the fourth exception, which allows for some informal arrangements where services or goods are not offered to the general public, but they might be offered to a particular person, for example, a friend who is willing to provide some protective services on a weekend, let's say. This was crafted very carefully.

To access that exception, the person has to receive only what would be a fair value for the service provided, and couldn't be involved at all in the actual provision of sexual services, couldn't encourage, incite, or anything like that. So it's exactly the same as if I felt that my security was threatened, and I hired a friend. That is intended to provide an opportunity to implement certain safety measures when engaging in a very risky.... But if Bill C-36 is enacted, it would be an illegal activity.

The legislation is also very careful to recognize that when third parties develop economic interests in the prostitution of others, there's a risk that they may become unscrupulous and exploit, and that evidence is also listed in the bibliography and in the end notes to the technical paper for your reference. To address that very real concern, Bill C-36 takes away the exception if any exploitive circumstances exist. So if that person starts involving themselves in the prostitution of that other person starts inciting or encouraging or procuring using violence, and offering drugs to aid and abet, or—and this is important I think in relation to your comments—if that material benefit is received in the context of a commercial enterprise that offers sexual services for sale, that is considered to be exploitative a priori by Bill C-36. So Bill C-36 doesn't allow the commercialization or institutionalization of prostitution because it considers that to be harmful in itself. The risks, the links to human trafficking, are too high. I would make that point.

That's how the legislation carefully allows for certain measures to be undertaken, but also recognizes the inherent dangers and is careful to take away the legislated exceptions when any kind of exploitation presents itself, as the minister has outlined in his remarks.

July 7th, 2014 / 11:05 a.m.
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Conservative

Bob Dechert Conservative Mississauga—Erindale, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Piragoff, the minister spoke about exploitation. We've heard lots of commentators talk about the exploitation of the prostitutes, men or women, who are in this business. Bill C-36 focuses on exploitation, on material benefit, that is exploitive in nature. I'm wondering if you can tell us a bit about why you focused on that. Do you feel that by focusing on those who exploit—in other words, a pimp who takes 75% or more of the fee that the prostitute receives as their fee, or the strip club or massage parlour owner who takes a significantly higher portion than the individual would receive from that fee, people who extort money from prostitutes in other ways—how will that in your view make the lives of prostitutes safer and assist them in exiting the business?

July 7th, 2014 / 11:05 a.m.
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Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Policy Sector, Department of Justice

Donald Piragoff

There's a significant amount of difference. The first difference is the purpose of the legislation. The existing section 213 was interpreted by the Supreme Court as being essentially a nuisance offence. Basically, it was to control nuisance on the street.

Bill C-36's reformulation of section 213's objective is to protect children from the harms of prostitution. It is to essentially prohibit soliciting in front of children because of the harms that may befall children, and also drawing them in.

It is not geared to controlling the nuisance on the street. It is to protect children. It's a different legislative objective, so there's a huge difference.

The other difference, of course, is that it's a lot more narrow in scope. It only applies to places—not any place—where there's a reasonable expectation that children would be present, which means that in the case of any place other than that, a person would be able to solicit legally.

July 7th, 2014 / 11 a.m.
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Liberal

Sean Casey Liberal Charlottetown, PE

Okay.

You were here when I asked the minister about consistency between Bill C-36 and Gladue. Bill C-36 contains some mandatory minimums and increases some mandatory minimums.

Would you agree that on their face the mandatory minimums contained in Bill C-36 run afoul of the principles enunciated by the Supreme Court in Gladue?

July 7th, 2014 / 10:55 a.m.
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Liberal

Sean Casey Liberal Charlottetown, PE

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

To begin I'd like to stay with the issue of advertising.

Could one of you tell me whether you agree with this statement? It's from a document written by Sandra Ka Hon Chu, Jenn Clamen, Richard Elliott, Katrina Pacey, and Tara Santini, with the Canadian HIV/AIDS Legal Network, Pivot Legal Society, and Stella.

Here's the question. Tell me if this is an accurate depiction of Bill C-36:

...any party (e.g., newspaper, website, phone-service, etc.) that is a vehicle for sex workers' advertising their services is guilty of a crime. This makes it virtually impossible for a sex worker to advertise. Even maintaining one's own website leaves the Internet Service Provider (ISP) host exposed to prosecution.

Would you agree with that characterization of what's in Bill C-36?

July 7th, 2014 / 10:55 a.m.
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Counsel, Criminal Law Policy Section, Department of Justice

Nathalie Levman

The person who takes out that ad, as long as it relates only to their own sexual services, is immunized from prosecution, which I would note is different from allowing prostitution. In no way does Bill C-36 attempt to allow the practice of prostitution. It merely immunizes from prosecution certain types of behaviour that are frequently engaged in by the persons who are considered to be exploited by the practice of prostitution.

July 7th, 2014 / 10:55 a.m.
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Conservative

Bob Dechert Conservative Mississauga—Erindale, ON

Right. I think a lot of people are misunderstanding this. They're saying that this is a total ban on advertising. But as I read it, what's going on today, whereby an individual, if he or she is paying for that ad themselves, if everyone involved is only receiving a material benefit that's commensurate with the services provided on reasonable commercial terms, you can say my name is X. I'm available for a certain price per hour or hourly rate—I can say that—and that's probably not the type of thing that's going to be made illegal by Bill C-36. Would you agree with that?

July 7th, 2014 / 10:55 a.m.
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Conservative

Bob Dechert Conservative Mississauga—Erindale, ON

To either Mr. Piragoff or Ms. Levman, on this question of advertising, a number of commentators have got it wrong. I know there are some journalists in the room today who got it wrong in their columns. They made statements like, because this bill makes it illegal to have any form of advertising, they're going to force prostitutes out into the street to advertise their services and, therefore, the bill is unconstitutional.

You pointed out 286.2(4)b), which says that someone can provide their own advertising for their own services and can pay someone on commercial terms to help them with that. That clearly allows the individual to offer their own sexual services. There seems to be some concern about what the advertisement can say. For certain types of advertisements, the prosecutor can apply to the court to have those advertisements removed if they define sexual services in a certain way.

I've taken a look at some of these advertisements, and anyone who has access to the Internet can see them, and typically what they say is rather sad, rather degrading. It says sometimes the person's name, their age, their ethnicity, their hair colour, their eye colour, their bust size, their waist size, their height, and certain other physical characteristics. Then it will give an hourly rate, i.e. so much for half an hour, so much for two hours. If that ad runs, as it does today—you can find it online in many places and in many newspapers across Canada—is that something that would be caught by the provisions of Bill C-36?

July 7th, 2014 / 10:50 a.m.
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Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Policy Sector, Department of Justice

Donald Piragoff

That's what I'm responding to.

The overall objective of Bill C-36 is to reduce prostitution, discourage entry into prostitution, and to deter participation. It also recognizes that the process of trying to deter prostitution is not an easy avenue, and that in the course of that people who engage in prostitution and selling sexual services need to be protected.

Therefore, Bill C-36 would allow—

July 7th, 2014 / 10:50 a.m.
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Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Policy Sector, Department of Justice

Donald Piragoff

May I take you back to the objectives that the minister mentioned?

Bill C-36's overall objectives are to reduce the demand—

July 7th, 2014 / 10:45 a.m.
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NDP

Françoise Boivin NDP Gatineau, QC

So what does Bill C-36 do, and which clause answers to that?

July 7th, 2014 / 10:40 a.m.
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NDP

Françoise Boivin NDP Gatineau, QC

Bill C-36 is supposed to respond to the Bedford ruling; hence the sense of urgency on the minister's part. Is that correct? I am just trying to put things into context to make sure we are all on the same page.

In Bedford, the Supreme Court ruled that the provisions I just mentioned jeopardize the health and safety of sex workers because they criminalize what those workers do and create a sense of insecurity and danger since they must carry out their activities in places that are out of sight.

That said, the minister is bound to respond to the Bedford ruling. What process did the department follow in ensuring that response? Did you examine different models, or rather, did you consider only one when you were drafting Bill C-36? Did you consider decriminalizing or legalizing these activities? Did you analyze the Nordic model? How exactly did you arrive at Bill C-36?

July 7th, 2014 / 10:35 a.m.
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Conservative

The Chair Conservative Mike Wallace

Thank you, Minister, for joining us on our first panel, introducing Bill C-36 to us, and starting off the conversation that we'll be having all week. We appreciate your time.

I know that your officials are staying, but you are free to go.

July 7th, 2014 / 10:30 a.m.
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Conservative

Peter MacKay Conservative Central Nova, NS

Sure. Thank you very much, Ms. Ambler.

The amendments contained in Bill C-36, as I said my opening remarks, are meant to marry new sections of the Criminal Code with existing sections that deal with human trafficking. But you're absolutely right: there are many overlaps, if you will, particularly for vulnerable individuals and exploitative persons.

What we've attempted to do is ensure consistency with the human trafficking offences, which is very much related criminal conduct. Specifically, to answer your question, it would increase maximum penalties and impose mandatory minimum penalties for receiving a material benefit from human trafficking. Many of those who are trafficked are underage so there are already sections that apply, but regarding, for example, the withholding of documents for the purpose of committing child trafficking and the receipt of a material benefit from child trafficking, all of these types, shall we say, of collateral activities that need to be deterred will see increased maximum penalties under the bill.

What we're attempting to do here throughout this bill is to ensure greater protection for vulnerable Canadians. This is inherent in the bill. We have examined other jurisdictions that have decriminalized or legalized prostitution and found that higher rates of human trafficking and sexual exploitation have been the end result, and legalizing and regulating prostitution would create an increase in demand for those who provide sexual services.

That runs completely contrary to our intent to end the violence and exploitation that we think is inherent to prostitution, as I've said. It recognizes the societal harm that is caused by the commodification of sexual services. That is very much what we're attempting to do, to take these new sections and ensure they are consistent with the current provisions of the code.

July 7th, 2014 / 10:15 a.m.
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Conservative

David Wilks Conservative Kootenay—Columbia, BC

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for being here today.

With regard to the new sections being brought forth under Bill C-36 in relation to police officers—because that's where my domain is—what does this do with regard to police officers enforcing and/or assisting them in this area of their work?

July 7th, 2014 / 10:10 a.m.
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Liberal

Sean Casey Liberal Charlottetown, PE

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Minister, 15 years ago the Supreme Court of Canada handed down its decision in Gladue, which, you would agree, is the seminal decision with respect to aboriginal sentencing.

What measures have been taken to ensure that Bill C-36 is consistent with the Gladue principles?

July 7th, 2014 / 10 a.m.
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Conservative

Bob Dechert Conservative Mississauga—Erindale, ON

Minister, can I ask you about that? You mentioned the consultation. You had over 31,000 responses. I know that you personally met with former and current sex workers.

What did they tell you that caused you to believe that there are victims, how does Bill C-36 respond to them as victims, and how does it fit in with the overall government strategy towards rebalancing our justice legislation to properly address the needs of victims? You brought in the Victims Bill of Rights. That's a general theme that this government has followed for many years. Can you tell us about why you think prostitutes are often victims, and how you think this bill will assist them?

July 7th, 2014 / 10 a.m.
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Conservative

Bob Dechert Conservative Mississauga—Erindale, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, thank you to you and your officials for being here this morning.

I'd just like to respond to my friend, Madam Boivin.

We're all lawyers. There are many lawyers here. There are many lawyers who have reviewed this legislation and the Bedford decision. I certainly have. I spoke about it in the House of Commons. I think that Bill C-36 very clearly responds to the Bedford decision and is supportable.

In terms of the decision, it seems to me that the NDP don't want to take a position. They want to throw it back to the Supreme Court and hide behind that. They seem to want allow the Supreme Court to take the jurisdiction of Parliament. We had a decision; it's pretty clear. From any group of lawyers that you will ask an opinion of you'll get slightly different variations, but this seems to fit directly with the Bedford decision. I find it curious that my friends in the opposition are afraid to take a stand on how they think prostitution should be dealt within Canada and want to throw it back to the Supreme Court to hear what the Supreme Court has to say about it.

July 7th, 2014 / 9:55 a.m.
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NDP

Françoise Boivin NDP Gatineau, QC

But, you see, we're two lawyers, and obviously we're not necessarily seeing or reading the decision the same way. So that might be problematic. Instead of having us two lawyers discuss amongst ourselves and other lawyers, maybe it would be interesting to have the view of the court on the thing.

But you're talking about studies. What's wrong with you guys that you cannot send to this committee the studies on charter compliance that you had done? I know you're going to tell me that they're a matter of client privilege and so on, but I think these would help the committee see that the department did its job and did do the overview. I'd be interested in knowing what exactly was studied and how they analyzed the decision from the court, and did so in parallel with the actual BillC-36.

July 7th, 2014 / 9:55 a.m.
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Conservative

Peter MacKay Conservative Central Nova, NS

It's possible. Every new bill runs the risk of being referred to the Supreme Court. Whenever our government introduces a bill in Parliament, experts at the Department of Justice review it carefully to ensure it's charter compliant.

I should mention, Madame Boivin, that in addition to testimony that will be heard by this committee, it's the intention of the government to present as well a technical bill, which has helped to inform this legislation. It's also explaining some of the research that informed Bill C-36. Of course we also have—

July 7th, 2014 / 9:55 a.m.
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NDP

Françoise Boivin NDP Gatineau, QC

Do you expect Bill C-36 to be challenged and referred back to the Supreme Court, regardless of what the committee does? Whether the challenge comes from those who are in favour of decriminalization or those who support the Nordic model, do you expect the legislation to be challenged? Do you expect it to be sent back to the Supreme Court whatever we do?

July 7th, 2014 / 9:50 a.m.
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Conservative

Peter MacKay Conservative Central Nova, NS

Thank you for the question, Ms. Boivin.

The decision to refer Bill C-36 to the House is up to the committee.

July 7th, 2014 / 9:35 a.m.
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Central Nova Nova Scotia

Conservative

Peter MacKay ConservativeMinister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada

Thank you very much, Chair.

Colleagues, I am joined today by Donald Piragoff, senior assistant deputy minister at the Department of Justice, as well as Nathalie Levman, whom I would describe as an expert in this legislation. She has had a great deal of input into both the drafting and the preparation of the legislation that you see before you, Bill C-36.

I want to begin by thanking you, Chair, and all members of this committee for your decision to undertake this important work during the summer months. I think it reflects very well on Parliament and this committee to demonstrate the commitment to bringing forward important legislation, particularly the work that will be done over the coming days.

I very much appreciate the committee’s decision to sit—exceptionally—in July to study this bill. Bill C-36 is the government’s legislative proposal in response to the Supreme Court of Canada’s Bedford decision, which found three Criminal Code prostitution offences unconstitutional. As you know, the court gave Parliament the opportunity to respond within one year.

Mr. Chair, colleagues, the government has made excellent use of the year to date. We are at, I note, the six-month mark since the handing down of the Bedford decision. We have undertaken and completed an initiation of a public online consultation, a process that garnered more than 31,000 responses. There have also been in-person round table meetings with a full spectrum of input from those who advocate for legalization to those who advocate for full criminalization, and participants in prostitution.

We then set about a drafting process, a legislative response, informed by those stakeholders but also by federal, provincial, and territorial and other stakeholder consultations, and the Bedford decision itself, as well as available research.

Time is of the essence, Mr. Chair. We are proceeding through a legislative process now, as you're aware and participating in, and we're anxious to hear the views of those who will appear before this committee. Importantly, if we do not respond legislatively within the year, most adult prostitution-related activities will be decriminalized.

For our government, to do nothing was never an option. The government does not accept the proposition that prostitution is inevitable and therefore that we must decriminalize and regulate it. This is not the position. On the contrary, the government maintains that prostitution's inherent harms and dangers would only grow and be exacerbated in a regime that perpetrates and condones the exploitation of vulnerable individuals through legalized prostitution.

Accordingly, Bill C-36 does not seek to allow or facilitate the practice of prostitution. To the contrary, its goal is to reduce the demand for prostitution with a view to discouraging entry into it, deterring participation in it, and ultimately abolishing it to the extent possible.

Mr. Chair, similar approaches have been adopted, as you may know, or are under active consideration in several other countries, including France, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, and the United Kingdom. We also know that very often there are related issues that influence and affect those vulnerable persons. They include such things as violence, drug and alcohol addiction, and exploitation. And of course the subject of human trafficking is very often associated with prostitution.

So let me be clear at the outset that Bill C-36 reflects a fundamental shift towards the treatment of prostitution as a form of sexual exploitation that disproportionately and negatively impacts marginalized groups and individuals. Bill C-36 recognizes that victims of prostitution are many, and in most cases they are vulnerable people, without doubt. Persons who sell their own sexual services are prostitution's primary victims. But prostitution also victimizes the communities in which it takes place, including children who may be exposed to it, and indeed society itself, by normalizing the gender inequalities inherent in prostitution and the objectification and commodification of individuals.

The cornerstone of Bill C-36's new approach is to reduce demand for prostitution by criminalizing the purchase of sexual services. The new purchasing offence is based on the existing offence that prohibits obtaining “sexual services for consideration” from persons under the age of 18 years.

Accordingly, case law interpreting that offence assists in defining the scope of the new purchasing offence, as does case law that interprets the meaning of prostitution, which is defined as the exchange of sexual services for payment. The court will consider whether sexual services in nature and whether the purpose of providing these services is to sexually gratify the person who receives them.

Here, Mr. Chair, case law is clear. However, this does not include acts related to the production of pornography or exotic dancing; ultimately, whether a particular act constitutes a sexual service for consideration is a factual determination to be made by the court. In other words, it will be up to the courts to interpret on a case-by-case basis.

To complement the purchasing offence, Bill C-36 also proposes to criminalize advertising—that is, the sale of sexual services—and authorize the seizure or removal of advertisements for sexual services. Prostitution, the sale of sexual services, is fuelled by demand, and advertising contributes to that demand. This is, I note, a departure from some of the other models that puts it in the category of a Canadian model.

Bill C-36 also seeks to continue to denounce and prohibit the exploitation of prostitutes by others, by third parties, commonly known as pimping. This includes the institutionalization of prostitution through commercial enterprise, such as strip clubs, massage parlours, and escort agencies in which prostitution often takes place. All of these capitalize on the demand created by purchasers.

Bill C-36 would achieve these goals through offences that would prohibit materially benefiting from the prostitution of others and procuring others to provide sexual services.

The material benefit offence would criminalize receiving a financial or material benefit obtained by or derived from the commission of the purchasing offence. It would replace the “living on the avails of prostitution” offence that was found unconstitutional in Bedford.

Bill C-36 would enable those who sell their own sexual services to interact with others on the same basis as anyone else. This goes to the specific dangers that are inherent in prostitution. It would do so through legalized exceptions to the material benefit offence that would apply to non-exploitative relationships. This is the operative phrase: “non-exploitative relationships”.

For example, the material benefit offence would not apply to children, spouses, or roommates of those who sell their own sexual services; those who take part in legitimate businesses, such as accountants, landlords, taxi drivers, pharmacists, or individuals who work for security companies; or those who offer goods or services informally, such as someone who offers babysitting services. So what we're talking about here are services that would be readily available to all Canadians.

This approach, Chair, recognizes that the objective of deterring and ultimately abolishing prostitution will take some time to realize and that some may continue to engage in it. Accordingly, Bill C-36 would allow those who continue to engage in prostitution to implement certain safety measures. But Bill C-36 also recognizes the inherent risks in allowing the development, or in not prohibiting the development, of economic interest in the prostitution of others, which so often leads to exploitative conduct to maximize profits.

I should pause here to say that if the non-exploitative relationship at some point changes—that is, if an individual who is assisting a prostitute without any material benefit, who is taking part in some of those examples I gave, suddenly then invokes violence and begins to exploit the prostitute—then the criminal immunity would disappear. So it is very much informed by the relationship with the prostitute.

Mr. Chair, this approach in Bill C-36 recognizes the risks inherent, as I mentioned. If a person who fits within one of the legislative exceptions becomes exploitative—for example, using violence, abusing a position of trust—that person would lose the protection of the exceptions and would be subject to charge under the material benefit offence. The proposed procuring offence would require active involvement in the prostitution of others, such as causing, inciting, or pressuring in any way others to engage in prostitution. This is consistent with the existing Criminal Code approach, I note.

Much has been said about the asymmetrical nature of these new offences—namely, that Bill C-36 proposes to criminalize the purchase but not the sale of sexual services. This is not because Bill C-36 in any way condones the sale of sexual services. It does not. Rather, it is because Bill C-36 treats those subjected to prostitution as victims, victims who require support and assistance rather than blame or punishment. This is a clear departure, again, from approaches we have seen previously in Canada.

Accordingly, Bill C-36 would expressly immunize from prosecution individuals who sell their own sexual services for any part they play in purchasing, material benefit, procuring, or advertising offences, or what you would call the “transactional” portion of prostitution.

We believe that the best way to address the harms that prostitution causes those subjected to it is to help them leave it. In that regard, the government has also announced that it will provide assistance through complementary funding of $20 million over 5 years.

These funds—$20 million—will be mainly directed to groups that will deliver front-line services to assist prostitutes to exit this activity. We have already begun the important ask of identifying which groups to partner with, Mr. Chair.

In addition to criminalizing communicating in any place for the purpose of purchasing sexual services, Bill C-36 would also criminalize communicating for the purposes of selling sexual services, but only in public places where children can reasonably be expected to be present. Mr. Chair, this is an approach we have borrowed from other sections of the Criminal Code, mainly those that protect children. There is a legal definition or interpretation already in place in the Criminal Code that deals with places where children can reasonably be expected to be present. This approach accounts for the various interests at play, which include not only those of prostitution's primary victims—the prostitutes—but also those of children who may be exposed to prostitution and thereby placed at risk of being drawn into a life of exploitation, recognizing the vulnerability and the lack of maturity of children, Mr. Chair.

Bill C-36 would also clarify that the definition of weapon includes weapons of restraint, for the purpose of the offences prohibiting assault with a weapon, so current section 267; sexual assault with a weapon, section 272; and the possession of a weapon with the intent to commit an offence, section 88. This approach provides an extra measure of protection for those at risk of being subject to this type of violence, including those who sell their own sexual services.

It's fair to say, Mr. Chair, colleagues, that the country was very much riveted by the tragic events that occurred in British Columbia and the mass murder that occurred in that province. The use of weapons, restraint—zip cords, duct tape, etc.—were very much instruments of foul play, so we've attempted in this legislation to recognize that and create this new offence.

Bill C-36 would also amend the human trafficking offences—a nod to my colleague from Kildonan—St. Paul for her good work—and attempts to ensure consistency with the proposed prostitution offences. It takes existing code sections and marries some of the intent there. Human trafficking and prostitution are often intricately linked criminal behaviours. Accordingly, criminal law responses to both activities require harmonization.

In conclusion, Chair, the government recognizes that Bill C-36's vision of a society free from prostitution's harms will take time to realize, and that some will remain subjected to prostitution while this transformation is under way. Therefore, Bill C-36 does not prevent implementation of certain safety measures emphasized by the Supreme Court of Canada in the Bedford decision, such as selling sexual services, including from fixed indoor locations; providing protective services to those who sell sexual services, as long as no exploitative relationship or circumstances exist; and negotiating safer conditions for the sale of sexual services in public places, other than where children could reasonably be expected to be present. We're balancing public interest and protection, and the moral obligation to protect children.

I stress, Mr. Chair, that this approach is not intended to facilitate or in any way condone the sale of sexual services. Rather, this bill addresses this complex societal policy issue by taking into account all of the safety concerns posed by it. These involve not just the concerns outlined in the Bedford decision, but also the broader safety and societal concerns posed by prostitution more generally, which include the need to protect those subjected to prostitution from violence and exploitation; the need to protect communities from prostitution's harmful affects, including exposure of children; and the need to protect society from the normalization of a gendered and inherently exploitative practice. It infringes on values of human dignity and equality.

The government also recognizes that achieving this transformation will require sustained, cooperative efforts in a wide cross-section of society. That is why the government is committing resources to support front-line organizations to assist those engaged in prostitution to exit. We look forward to working with provinces, territories, law enforcement—many organizations—and social workers who have been on the front lines of this effort for years, and this committee, of course.

Mr. Chair, faced with the Bedford decision and the one-year timeline, the government had a choice: condone the exploitation of vulnerable persons and harms to Canadian communities, or protect them. Informed by the Supreme Court's judgment in Bedford, available research, and the government's public consultations and obligations, we naturally chose the latter. We believe that this is a sound sensible law and entirely defensible.

I thank you for the invitation. I thank you again for your work, and I look forward to your questions. Merci beaucoup.

July 7th, 2014 / 9:35 a.m.
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Conservative

The Chair Conservative Mike Wallace

I call to order this meeting of the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights.

Our friends from the media with the cameras have to leave now. This is a televised event and we don't need the extra cameras.

This is meeting 32 on Monday, July 7. The orders of the day are pursuant to the order of reference of Monday, June 16, 2014, Bill C-36, An Act to amend the Criminal Code in response to the Supreme Court of Canada decision in Attorney General of Canada v. Bedford and to make consequential amendments to other Acts.

Our first witness today is the Honourable Peter Gordon MacKay, the Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada. He is here with us for an hour, and then we have the officials afterwards.

Perhaps you'd like to introduce your colleagues with you today, Minister, and then the floor is yours for 10 minutes.

Combating Counterfeit Products ActGovernment Orders

June 19th, 2014 / 8:20 p.m.
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NDP

Tarik Brahmi NDP Saint-Jean, QC

Mr. Speaker, it is a great pleasure to speak to this bill without being restricted by the time limits that the Conservative government usually has in store for us.

Bill C-8 is important to me because the riding of Saint-Jean is in southern Quebec, on the United States border. The hon. member for Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie and Jacques Villeneuve were born in this riding. It is a riding that has to deal with the problem of smuggling and trafficking in illegal substances. This mostly involves counterfeit cigarettes and drugs.

Although there is no real border crossing between the riding of Saint-Jean and the United States, in practice two government agencies are responsible for controlling the flow of goods between the United States and Canada. There is the RCMP station in Venise-en-Québec, in the riding of Brome—Missisquoi, and the border crossing at Saint-Bernard-de-Lacolle, which is in the riding of Beauharnois—Salaberry. Those are the two main points of entry for certain goods.

Goods are transported by standard means through Saint-Bernard-de-Lacolle, because they arrive by truck, even though some goods are counterfeit. However, the RCMP is responsible for monitoring the boats on the river. We are obviously not dealing with cargo ships, but individuals with small boats transporting goods they are not authorized to move. These two situations are different and are managed by two different government agencies that each have their own mandate: the RCMP and the Canada Border Services Agency.

This is why it is also important for our riding. A certain number of people living in our riding work in Montreal—even though that city is not in our riding—in businesses where piracy and counterfeiting have serious consequences. As was mentioned earlier, there is the pharmaceutical industry.

There is another example, which is also important for those of us living in Quebec and in the Montreal area in particular, and that is the video game industry. This industry is very aware of piracy because millions of dollars are invested in research and development. Montreal companies need these protections to earn a return on their investments, which are investments in intellectual property. People working in these industries live in the greater Montreal area and therefore in my riding.

If I were also to digress and talk about the Conservative government, I would say that the people in my riding who are going to work in those industries—and who are therefore very sensitive to the issue of piracy and counterfeiting—are obviously using the famous Champlain Bridge, which the government has unfortunately neglected for a number of years. What the government, through the Minister of Infrastructure, has repeated today is unacceptable to the constituents in my riding. It is the infamous “no toll, no bridge”. That sounds a bit like the famous Asterix and Obelix quote: “No stones, no construction. No construction, no palace. No palace...no palace.”

This type of mindset assumes that, when there is no P3 project, residents will be asked to pay for infrastructure that they already use, national infrastructure used not only by Quebeckers, by people in the region, but also by our American friends when they trade goods with the Montreal area. Contrary to what the Prime Minister said in a speech in the Quebec City area, the Champlain Bridge is not local infrastructure, it is not a small bridge over a small river, it is national infrastructure, as highways 10 and 15 converge on the Champlain Bridge, where Brossard is. That is why it is major infrastructure.

I will end my digression by saying that the NDP will oppose the toll for replacing the Champlain Bridge. In fact, the NDP has always been opposed to a toll.

This part of my speech had to do with the economic consequences of counterfeit and piracy in general. Clearly, the economic consequences for the Montreal area and for Quebec are critical, because the Montreal industry relies on high tech.

We are also talking about aircraft manufacturing. As surprising as it may seem, there is also counterfeiting of high-tech components, which are vital to aircraft safety. There are two aspects to consider here. First, companies that manufacture the parts are losing money. Second, there is the issue of health and safety. If an aviation accident is caused by a defective part, both of those consequences of counterfeiting come into play.

I would like to come back to information and statistics for a moment. It has already been said that various agencies have figures on counterfeiting. That is the case in Canada as well as the United States and Europe. Government agencies provide figures. As I said before, there is a paradox in that the figures we have are just a snapshot and not the entire picture. Criminals obviously do not fill out packing lists when they ship counterfeit items, let alone when they traffic drugs. If only criminal organizations did fill them out, check the box marked “counterfeit goods” and then send them to the Canada Border Services Agency when shipping counterfeit toys, medication and so on. All we know about this type of crime is the information that has been gathered from seizures. It only makes sense that the amount of goods being seized would be proportionate to the effort being put into seizing them.

If the number of people working to seize goods is reduced and those who remain are no more productive than before because no one has found a new way of seizing goods, it is only logical that the snapshot will not be as good. If we extrapolate based on the quantity of counterfeit goods that are being moved and add in the fact that the number of people working on these investigations is going down, it only makes sense to assume that the market is larger than we envisioned.

This is not being taken into account, and when you look at the raw numbers, you can see that the number of goods seized increases considerably—exponentially, even. We can only conclude that the statistics we have are not representative of how this fraud has evolved and that the statistics are under-estimated.

We know that the Conservative government does not particularly like statistics. We saw evidence of that in 2010 when it decided to get rid of form 2B, Statistics Canada's long form census. That is a classic example.

For decades, we had continuous knowledge of populations and communities, since form 2B enabled us to ask more specific questions to 20% of the population, which is a more-than-representative sample. No other Statistics Canada study asks specific questions to 20% of the population. Form 2A was sent to 80% of the population and form 2B was sent to 20% of the population.

This provided specific information. The survey asked questions about language spoken at home, modes of transportation—which is very useful for projecting public transit needs—and other important topics such as the representation of age groups, which is useful when municipalities are creating schools, day cares or sports facilities. This enabled us to get a detailed and localized view of the needs of the population.

Unfortunately, in 2010, when the Conservative government made the decision to stop collecting the data we had been collecting on an ongoing basis for decades, we lost our ability to learn specific information about our communities. It spoke to the fact that the government had only a short-term vision and did not have a long-term vision for how crucial this accurate, specific, and localized information was to making extrapolations about the public, its needs and the infrastructure required by different communities.

This is a pattern. We are seeing the same thing with how the government deals with skills training needs, particularly in the case of the renewal of labour market agreements with employment insurance. That information is missing. I am obviously not going to talk about information from Kijiji, since I am not in the know about that. However, we know that information is missing.

The Conservative government has this strange logic of not gathering information and statistics from reliable sources that use a proven methodology, such as Statistics Canada. The statistics used by the government are usually concocted out of thin air or wildly unrealistic. We also saw that with Bill C-36 on prostitution. The statistics used are bogus because the government does not want to know what is really happening on the ground. When they do not have statistics, they make up their own. This is like the old saying, “give a dog a bad name and hang him”.

It is always the same thing. They make up their own statistics to support their views and to introduce bills that reflect an ideology, rather than the statistical reality measured with scientific means and representative samplings, like Statistics Canada does with its social surveys.

That covers the part on information.

I will now return to a point raised by several members, namely the issue of resources. Investigations are conducted by the RCMP, among others. As recently as May 22, operation Pangea VII was conducted in 111 countries and led to the arrest of 237 individuals. During this operation, more than 9.5 million unauthorized pharmaceuticals with an estimated value of $35 million were seized.

These specific examples show the need for resources to conduct such investigations. This operation is an example of an international investigation completed in May 2014 that required the co-operation of 111 countries. It is really a huge operation. We are talking about 140,000 counterfeit pharmaceuticals seized at the Canadian border alone. There were also seizures in other countries. Between May 13 and May 20, a total of 2,282 packages were seized.

Incidentally, these packages are often delivered by Canada Post. The corporation does not have the mandate to monitor the content of these packages, or to determine whether the pharmaceuticals are genuine or not. This requires special expertise that Canada Post employees do not have and that border services officers do not all have.

As was mentioned earlier, counterfeit products are very sophisticated. They look so much like the real products that, in the case of drugs, some holograms are the exact replica of genuine security holograms. Therefore, it becomes increasingly complicated for law enforcement agencies, for the Border Services Agency in particular, and for the RCMP to detect counterfeit products when they arrive at the border. Counterfeit products are increasingly sophisticated. This means that more advanced investigations relying on international co-operation are required.

This example shows that resources are necessary. We need the same number of trained resources, not less. The government did the opposite in 2012, when it announced that over 500 members of the Border Services Agency would lose their jobs. In fact, the number is higher. Indeed, in 2012, more than 1,000 employees received notice that their position was potentially threatened by the restructuring of the Canada Border Services Agency.

Since I have one minute left, I will end my speech here and take questions from my colleagues. There is a contradiction between wanting to move forward with this bill, which would target counterfeiting and piracy, and wanting to cut the amount of resources allocated to doing so. This is a contradiction that the NDP has pointed out.

Unfortunately, the government has set a goal to reduce spending, as part of its opportunistic attempt to garner votes in 2015. It wants to be able to claim to be a government that balances its budget, when in reality, it is balancing the budget at the expense of Canadians' safety, whether we are talking about medications or the profitability of our businesses that invest in research and development. We need to speak out against this.

Bill C-32—Time Allocation MotionVictims Bill of Rights ActGovernment Orders

June 18th, 2014 / 5:10 p.m.
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Conservative

Peter MacKay Conservative Central Nova, NS

Mr. Speaker, I am not sure how that rambling question has anything to do with support for victims. She can read from her BlackBerry from some NDP lawyer who is sending in this important pressing question about how our criminal justice agenda has improved things for victims.

I just mentioned the victims ombudsman. We have a victims fund program at the Department of Justice that has dedicated resources to help victim services across Canada. We work closely with the provinces and territories.

We have put in place some of the most forward-looking legislation when it comes to the protection of children. We have made some 600 appointments to various courts across the country, judges who are now adjudicating over important legislative matters. We have more bills in the queue, including a bill, as the member would know, with respect to the protection of those who are falling victim to cybercrime and those who are being bullied online. We have important legislation before the House that pertains specifically to plugging the hole that was created by the Supreme Court of Canada when it struck down important provisions of the Criminal Code that pertained to prostitution. These are very critical initiatives.

Sometimes time is of the essence, as is the case with Bill C-36, where we have one calendar year, six months of which has already passed. That is why we have to sometimes invoke this provision which allows the members of the House of Commons to have their say.

In this case some 26 members of the opposition have already weighed in on this. If they sit on a committee, they will have an opportunity to similarly voice their views.

However, what I hear from these speeches is the same patented pablum that does not put forward any constructive ideas. It is the same regurgitated speeches from the opposition, rather than the members saying how they would do it, how they would substantively improve the bill and these are their ideas. There is none of that. It is just absolute criticism without anything in place that would be positive or would help improve the legislation.

Respect for Communities ActGovernment Orders

June 17th, 2014 / 10:25 p.m.
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NDP

Matthew Kellway NDP Beaches—East York, ON

Mr. Speaker, I am happy to rise this evening in this quiet chamber where only New Democrats seem to want to talk about how to make a better future for Canada and Canadians.

I am talking tonight about the misguided Bill C-2, an act to amend the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act. We are at second reading in the legislative process, but it is certainly early enough to say an unqualified no to this proposed piece of legislation.

It comes to us, into this chamber, in response to the 2011 Supreme Court decision that concluded that the Minister of Health's refusal to grant an extension to InSite's exemption under that act was:

...arbitrary, undermining the very purposes of the [Controlled Drugs and Substances Act], which include public health and safety.

Here we have Bill C-2. It is typical legislation from the government in a number of respects. First and foremost, it reflects a government unable to deal with, and unwilling to acknowledge, the complexities of real life. Consequently, it is a government unfit to govern.

It is a government that provides ample evidence of this to us every day, as with Bill C-36, the government's response to the Supreme Court's Bedford ruling, and the monkeying about with judicial appointments in response to the Supreme Court's Nadon ruling. This is a government that does not take advice from, but responds with infantile defiance to, that body in our system of government that is the guardian of basic rights and freedoms for Canadians.

However, there are constraints on its conduct, thankfully. In this particular circumstance, the Supreme Court was clear on the constraints the government had to work within. It was section 7 of the charter in this case. To quote the court on this decision specifically:

...the Minister must exercise discretion within the constraints imposed by the law and the Charter, aiming to strike the appropriate balance between achieving public health and public safety. In accordance with the Charter, the Minister must consider whether denying an exemption would cause deprivations of life and security of the person that are not in accordance with the principles of fundamental justice.

There we have it. No clearer an articulation can be imagined, I do not think.

Now, in defiance of that clear statement, we have a bill that will require InSite to reapply for an exemption, but under the new proposed prejudicial criteria, criteria that make no effort to hide the anti-safe injection site animus.

Under this bill:

The Minister may only grant an exemption for a medical purpose under subsection (2) to allow certain activities to take place at a supervised consumption site in exceptional circumstances and after having considered the following principles:

(a) illicit substances may have serious health effects;

(b) adulterated controlled substances may pose health risks;

(c) the risks of overdose are inherent to the use of certain illicit substances;

and so on and so on.

However, nowhere do we find, along with those principles, anything that even remotely resembles the findings of the Supreme Court in its decision, in which they said:

InSite has been proven to save lives with no discernible negative impact on the public safety and health objectives of Canada.

How does this bill make any effort on the mountain of evidence that has accumulated in support of injection sites, and InSite in particular, as mechanisms for finding a balance between public health and public safety?

The Supreme Court, in its decision, turned its mind to all the facts, to the studies that demonstrate the beneficial impacts of InSite and other like sites around the world. The evidence in favour of safe injection sites is overwhelming. Thirty peer-reviewed studies in deeply respected medical journals, the names of which we all know in this House, are dealing with InSite itself. The studies are supported by findings confirmed by research on the other 70 safe injection sites around the world.

What the studies show, and what the Supreme Court had before it for consideration, was the following: between 1987 and 1993, which is pre-InSite, the rate of overdose deaths in Vancouver increased from 16 to 200 per year. Since InSite opened, the rate of overdose deaths in East Vancouver has dropped by 35%.

One study showed that over a one-year period, there were 273 overdoses, but not a single life was lost. Over a one-year period, 2,171 referrals were made to InSite users to addiction counselling or other support services.

Finally, studies found that those who used InSite services at least once a week were 1.7 times more likely to enrol in a detox program than those who visited infrequently.

There are more studies, but let me point to one more important finding. There was a significant drop in the number of discarded syringes, injection-related litter, and people injecting on the streets one year after InSite opened.

I raise this issue not just because I know it is a particularly compelling finding for parents like me, but also because it stands in complete contradiction to the Conservatives' anti-InSite sloganeering, “Keep heroin out of our backyards”. They call on Canadians to support the bill in order to keep “heroin out of our backyards” as though, by abolishing the safe injection site, they will also abolish heroin, as though it will just disappear somehow, as though it was not there before InSite, as though it would not return if we abolish InSite.

This is ideology in the most pejorative sense of the word, a believe that is held tight, not just in ignorance of the facts but in fact in contravention of all outstanding evidence, evidence that is before the Conservatives in plain site that one cannot miss, that the Supreme Court examined in the process of arriving at its decision. Even beyond that, it is the belief that is fundamentally illogical and irrational. This, being prepared to govern a country this way, is why the Conservatives are unfit to govern.

Governing is not some blue sky project where reality changes just because we wish it is different, where heroin disappears because we close safe injection sites, where addictions go away because we do not have harm reduction programs, or climate change does not happen because we silence scientists, empty the libraries and discard the research. It is not as though the charter disappears because the Conservatives can force legislation in contravention of it through this place.

This should properly be the role of government, not to be receiving applications as though we lived in a country without section 7 charter rights, as though the issue of harm reduction was not otherwise a matter of active government concern.

For these reasons, I stand against Bill C-2.

Respect for Communities ActGovernment Orders

June 17th, 2014 / 9:40 p.m.
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NDP

Mylène Freeman NDP Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to stand and speak to Bill C-2. It is an example of a trend in the government. I will explain myself throughout my speech.

I am concerned about the way in which we go about making laws in this country. This legislation is an example of the Conservative government's leadership when it comes to drafting legislation and bringing it to the House. How the government acts in public really flies in the face of the Canada that I grew up in and the Canada I am proud to be a part of. Now when I stand in the House I feel very sad for our legislative process.

To begin, I want to talk a bit about what the bill is really about. It is not really about respecting communities, again a trend in some of the bills that we see, for example, safe communities and so on. This legislation is not at all about communities. It is about marginalizing those who are already marginalized. It is about putting further violence in the lives of those who already live with so much violence. It is about putting in danger those who are already in danger.

Essentially, this entire legislation is about InSite. For those who may not be familiar with InSite, it is a place in the Vancouver area where those who are addicted to drugs can go for safe injection. We all understand what addiction is, at least those of us on this side of the House, and that there are ways to make it safer for individuals to break a habit so they can escape the cycle of drug abuse. If they cannot break the cycle, and that can be the case for some, at least they would not be put in a more vulnerable position.

Following an increase in the number of overdose deaths in Vancouver between 1987 and 1993, Vancouver Coastal Health and community partners set up InSite. Since then there has been a huge decrease in diseases such as Hep A, B, C, and HIV/AIDS.

InSite was originally exempt under the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act. In 2008, the exemption under Section 56 in the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act expired. That has caused us to be in the situation we are in now. The minister of health at that time denied its renewal and that resulted in subsequent court cases. It was brought up to the Supreme Court of Canada.

In 2011, the Supreme Court ruled that the minister's decision to close InSite, to not renew the exemption under the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act, was a violation of the charter rights of those who were part of the program. The minister's decision was “...arbitrary, undermining the very purposes of the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act, which include public health and safety”.

That is an overview of why we are here. We are here now because the Conservatives are not in agreement ideologically with the Supreme Court's ruling. This legislation would impose extremely stringent conditions on places like InSite and would really dissuade any other communities that have the need for such programs from participating in them.

In a sense this legislation is only about InSite. In a sense the bill exemplifies a trend in the Conservative government.

The Conservatives have such profound disrespect for any Supreme Court ruling that comes forward and that goes against their ideology. They have a complete disrespect for the judicial branch in this country and the fact that when a decision is made by the Supreme Court, if they do not like it, then too bad. They are not the defenders of rights and freedoms in this country, the courts are. That is why we have a separate judicial process. Unfortunately, the Conservatives keep finding ways of going around any of those decisions that are made by bringing forward legislation that flies in the face of it, sort of goes around it so that it fits their ideology.

For instance, the court in this case based its decision on section 7 of the charter, “Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of a person and the right not be deprived thereof, except in accordance with the principles of fundamental justice”.

This is extremely common. We are seeing the Conservatives disagree with fundamentally, ideologically, in Supreme Court rulings things that have to do with people's security, people's health, people's right to life. That is what is so scary about this trend. The Supreme Court did rule that InSite and other supervised injection sites must be granted a section 56 exemption when they decrease the risk of death and disease and there is little or no evidence that they have a negative impact on the community. InSite does not have a negative impact on the community, quite the opposite, it has a very positive impact on the community. The Conservatives now have to go through this bill to try to create stringent conditions for InSite.

This is blatant disrespect and disregard for the InSite ruling. it completely flies in the face of it. This is in the context of a government that has challenged the Supreme Court over and over again through these backward ways of bringing in legislation to the House that flies in the face of a ruling.

For instance, we are thinking of a very close case in my opinion, the same type of situation. Bill C-36 was recently put down. It really flies in the face of the Bedford decision, which was very clear that given the dangerous conditions of sex work, those who are engaged in it need to be able to take the steps to protect themselves. Now we have a bill that is so disempowering. It is not an exaggeration to say that lives would be put at risk due to this legislation.

We also have Bill C-24, which is the immigration bill that creates dual citizenship. Dual citizens are treated as second-class citizens who potentially would be deported and put in danger in countries they may never have even known.

This is also in the context of several crime bills that have been returned due to their unconstitutionality. We see over and over that the Conservatives are marginalizing at-risk Canadians and further marginalizing already marginalized groups.

The many justice bills of the Conservatives, as I mentioned, follow the same model. They ostracize, isolate, and divide people. Instead of trying to address the root issue, the Conservatives tackle symptoms without even looking for the source of the problem. They throw people in jail without helping them reintegrate into society, and that does not solve the problem.

Let us not forget the unelected and unaccountable Senate blocking my colleague's bill on gender identity, creating rights for trans Canadians who are so marginalized and are put in situations of violence. I do not think I have time to get into the difference between an unelected, unaccountable Senate going against the elected thoughts of the House, and the judicial process, which is to protect the rights of Canadians despite the democratic processes that happen in this House.

The Senate works against that process, but over and over, the government is choosing ideology over facts. In these cases, every time the government is going to outrageous lengths, really, to subvert the courts, and these bills. I am not exaggerating, I know am out of time but I really want to get this out. These bills are putting people in danger--

Second readingRespect For Communities ActGovernment Orders

June 17th, 2014 / 4:40 p.m.
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NDP

Libby Davies NDP Vancouver East, BC

Mr. Speaker, Bill C-2 was first introduced in June 2013, a little over a year ago, as Bill C-65 and came back to the House as Bill C-2 in October.

I am proud of the fact that about 50 members of the NDP caucus have spoken to this important legislation. However, I am ashamed to say that what we have heard from the government side is divisive debate. From day one the Conservatives have portrayed the issue of respecting the Supreme Court of Canada's decision on safer injection sites in Canada as a black and white issue.

I go back to January 27 of this year when the government House leader told the Hill Times that he will tell people that opposition parties want drug injection sites to be established in their neighbourhoods without people having any say. He then talked about the extreme position that the NDP was taking. Nothing could be further from the truth.

For the government House leader to portray our discourse on this legislation in that manner shows first, how the Conservatives like to create division and fear among people, and second, that they know absolutely nothing about North America's only safe injection site, which is located in Vancouver's downtown east side and called InSite. The fact is that InSite was set up over 10 years ago after extensive consultation with the local community.

The Supreme Court of Canada ruled that InSite and other supervised injection sites must be granted Section 56 exemptions under the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act when they “decrease the risk of death and disease, and there is little or no evidence that it will have a negative impact on public safety....”

Upon reading the decision of the Supreme Court of Canada it is clear that it understood the arguments that were being made by the litigants, that this was a health measure, that it was about saving lives and that it was about preventing people from needless drug overdoses. Over the past 10 years, InSite has gone on to become incredibly successful and has helped improve the health and well-being of many people. It has saved literally countless lives in the Downtown Eastside.

Over 30 peer review studies have been done on InSite. It received its first exemption in 2003. From the extensive research that has been done since it opened, Vancouver has seen a 35% decrease in overdose deaths. Furthermore, InSite has been shown to decrease crime and communicable disease infection rates and relapse rates for drug users. That is quite remarkable. NDP members have always said that InSite is just part of the solution; it is not the only solution.

It is quite remarkable that this facility has been able to accomplish so much. One would never know that after hearing the speeches from government members. One would think it was just about chaos and law and order, that it was about imposing something on a community.

InSite did get a further exemption under the act for another year. I want to put firmly on the record that InSite has done a remarkable job in Vancouver.

I would also note that over those 10 years, organizations like the HIV/AIDS Legal Network, the Canadian Drug Policy Coalition, the Canadian Medical Association, and the Canadian Nurses Association, never mind the 30-plus peer review studies, have all come out firmly on the side of evidence that InSite is about saving lives. They came to this conclusion upon their analysis of how InSite is operated. They have been critical of Bill C-2 because they know, as we know having examined the bill, that it is really about setting the bar high. So much discretion and subjectivity is given to the minister that it would be very easy for her on flimsy, non-evidence-based opinion to turn down other applications across Canada.

That is the fundamental problem with this legislation. At the end of the day, Bill C-2 would not meet the test of the Supreme Court of Canada's decision on InSite.

Again we have a familiar pattern, as we just saw with Bill C-36 on the laws pertaining to prostitution. We have a government that is bent on its own ideological agenda and refuses to examine the evidence before it on some of these very important measures that pertain to safety, health, and well-being.

Just to show how important this facility is and that others across the country could provide the same kind of service, in Vancouver, on June 4, I happened to notice an item in the paper that said, “Vancouver Police are issuing a public warning after officers responded to seven reports of suspected heroin overdoses in the Downtown Eastside in the span of a day”. Clearly, there was some really bad stuff on the street and people were really suffering.

The article further stated, “Sgt. Randy Fincham said active drug users need to be 'extremely cautious' and to visit Insite”. There we have it. Even the Vancouver Police Department recognizes that InSite has been a very important health and safety measure for drug users. It provides a safe place to inject, and there is medical supervision and support when it is needed so that people do not die by overdose. As is said so often in the Downtown Eastside, dead people cannot get treatment. I find it very interesting that local police are actually telling people to make sure they go to InSite to take advantage of its services so people can have the medical support and safety that is required.

New Democrats believe that the provisions of this bill before us are very onerous and very partisan. This led us to suspect what research had actually been done in preparing the bill. I put a question on the order paper back in October of last year and asked specifically what kind of consultation the government had conducted before it brought the bill in, particularly for front-line service providers, medical research professionals, and so on. The response that I got from the government, in part, said, “In the development of the proposed legislation, Health Canada consulted with Public Safety Canada, Justice Canada, the Public Health Agency of Canada, the Canadian Institutes of Health Research and central agencies”. Basically, nobody on the government side actually bothered to talk to the people who are providing the service.

I know that not one Conservative minister of health that I visited and spoke to about InSite over the past years has visited InSite. There is a complete lack of knowledge about what this facility does. I am very concerned that with this bill the minister will confer on herself enormous discretion and power to make decisions based on political opposition and not on the merits of what is what is taking place in the local community and how such a facility can help a population that is very much at risk and marginalized.

There are a couple of other points that I want to make. A very important one is that there was the recent passing of a very wonderful activist, Bud Osborn, a poet, and pioneer at InSite in Vancouver's Downtown Eastside. He was much beloved in the neighbourhood, a former drug user himself. He understood from the very beginning, through the poetry he wrote and the words he spoke to people, how important this facility was in fostering a united community, where people were not divided between good and bad.

I want to pay tribute to the remarkable life and work of Bud Osborn and what he did not only in my community but across the country. He became a hero to many people for his courageous, outspoken way of putting the truth before people. He convinced politicians of all political stripes and met with the Minister of Health here in Ottawa a number of years ago, as well as the media, lawyers, prosecutors. He had an enormous amount of influence in my community because he spoke the truth from his own experience and believed very strongly that InSite was a lifesaving measure.

As this bill goes to committee, I want to say that New Democrats are very distressed that it is going to the public safety committee and not the health committee. It seems completely in conflict with what the goals of this bill should be in terms of a necessary health measure. We know that the bill is heavily weighted against the acceptance of these medically necessary services, so we will be demanding that there be a thoughtful and thorough review of the bill.

There have been a lot of scientific studies. We need to debunk the myths, the misinformation, and the rhetoric that we have heard about safer injections sites from the government side. When the bill gets to committee, I do hope very much, as we have said earlier today, that there will not be a censor of the witnesses, that there will be a thorough review and that we can make sure that the bill does indeed meet the test of the Supreme Court of Canada.

Bill C-2—Time Allocation MotionRespect For Communities ActGovernment Orders

June 17th, 2014 / 3:25 p.m.
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NDP

Libby Davies NDP Vancouver East, BC

Mr. Speaker, it is interesting to see how the government House leader acts in sort of a flippant and dismissive way when he reads this motion. It is no wonder, as this is the 74th time since 2011 that the government has introduced closure on a piece of legislation before the House. That means that most of its legislation has been rammed through, forced through by closure, because it cannot bear to have a proper comprehensive debate in the House of Commons by members of Parliament from all parties on any government legislation. It is bent on the idea that it has to ram it through.

Bill C-2, which is an amendment to the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act, is a particularly important bill because it follows a decision of the Supreme Court of Canada concerning safer injection sites in this country. As we have seen with other legislation, most notably Bill C-36 recently, which also has to do with a decision of the Supreme Court of Canada concerning laws pertaining to prostitution in this country, this is yet another bill in this House that basically does not stand the test of the decision of the Supreme Court of Canada.

I would ask the minister why the government has decreed that this bill will not go to the health committee where it should go, because it is a matter pertaining to the health and well-being of Canadians who are very much at risk and who have been marginalized, rather than going to the public safety committee. That demonstrates the conclusion that the government sees this as just another law and order measure, as opposed to a measure that is affecting the health of people. Why were people not properly consulted on this bill, such as front-line service workers, so that we would have the benefit of that in terms of debating the bill? Why will it now go to the public safety committee instead of where it should be going, which is for a thorough examination at the Standing Committee on Health?

Criminal CodePetitionsRoutine Proceedings

June 16th, 2014 / 4:45 p.m.
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Conservative

Joy Smith Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB

Mr. Speaker, I have 3,709 signatures on a petition today asking the government to amend the Criminal Code to target the johns and give support to those who desire to leave prostitution. It is a shame that a few minutes ago, opposition parties voted against Bill C-36.

Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons ActGovernment Orders

June 16th, 2014 / 3:05 p.m.
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Conservative

The Speaker Conservative Andrew Scheer

Pursuant to an order made on Wednesday, May 27, 2014, the House will now proceed to the taking of the deferred recorded division on the motion at the second reading stage of Bill C-36.

Call in the members.

The House resumed from June 12 consideration of the motion that Bill C-36, An Act to amend the Criminal Code in response to the Supreme Court of Canada decision in Attorney General of Canada v. Bedford and to make consequential amendments to other Acts, be read the second time and referred to a committee.

JusticeOral Questions

June 16th, 2014 / 3:05 p.m.
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Central Nova Nova Scotia

Conservative

Peter MacKay ConservativeMinister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada

Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for her long-standing interest in this subject, to protect vulnerable Canadians and to protect communities. Those are the two goals, certainly among others, found in Bill C-36.

We intend to meet the deadlines that have been set by the Supreme Court in the Bedford decision and to do so in a way that we believe will improve the lives of those who choose to leave prostitution. We have put parameters in place designed specifically to protect the community, children in particular.

We hope that all members will support this effort, which will make Canadians safer.

JusticeOral Questions

June 16th, 2014 / 3 p.m.
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Independent

Maria Mourani Independent Ahuntsic, QC

Mr. Speaker, people are saying that Bill C-36, as it stands, will not make prostitution illegal. This is an important aspect because the legal nature of prostitution was a fundamental element that, for the Supreme Court justices, justified their ruling in the Bedford case.

Will the Minister of Justice clearly state in Bill C-36 that prostitution is illegal in Canada?

JusticeOral Questions

June 13th, 2014 / noon
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Mississauga—Erindale Ontario

Conservative

Bob Dechert ConservativeParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Justice

Mr. Speaker, through Bill C-36, the government is balancing the interests of protecting vulnerable Canadians and minors and our communities. Bill C-36 shows compassion toward those trapped in this awful practice. It would also crack down on those responsible for exploiting the persons who are trapped in this industry. That is what Canadians want us to do, and that is what Bill C-36 would do.

JusticeOral Questions

June 13th, 2014 / noon
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Independent

Brent Rathgeber Independent Edmonton—St. Albert, AB

Mr. Speaker, the government claims that Bill C-36 would keep sex workers immune from prosecution except at or near where children are present. However, when it comes to child prostitutes, they are not only reasonably expected to be present wherever the child is selling sex, but a child is in fact present.

Does the government seriously intend to prosecute the most marginalized and most exploited members involved in this trade, the child prostitutes?

Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons ActGovernment Orders

June 12th, 2014 / 5:20 p.m.
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Conservative

Joy Smith Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB

Mr. Speaker, I thank the member opposite. I know his heart is in the right place and I congratulate him for working with this one group in his area. I think that is really great.

However, saying that, I just want to correct a couple of things.

The first thing is we do not take the bill back to the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court said, “It will be for Parliament, should it choose to do so, to devise a new approach, reflecting different elements of the existing regime.” The Supreme Court has demanded that we give a response within a year.

Also, when the member was saying that the sex workers were alarmed because he told them that they would get arrested in any public place, that is in places only where children under the age of 18 could be. The whole purpose of this is to respect the sex workers and to help them, as I know the member opposite obviously wants to do. However, I want to read something. There is a mother, Kathy King, whose daughter was in prostitution. She said that she would like to express her appreciation that Bill C-36 declares the purchase of sexual services an illegal act and supports the sex worker. She went on to say that since the disappearance of her daughter in 1997 and the discovery of her mutilated body a month later, she speaks for those who did not survive their entanglement in a world many of us do not understand. Here is a mom who really loved her child. With Bill C-36, there would be exit programs. The $30 million would help those girls to have a different kind of life.

Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons ActGovernment Orders

June 12th, 2014 / 4:55 p.m.
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NDP

Françoise Boivin NDP Gatineau, QC

Mr. Speaker, I am going to pick up on what the parliamentary secretary was saying. I mentioned in my speech something that I have noticed many times when talking to people. There are those who strongly believe, with conviction, that the Swedish model is the way to go, while others believe that New Zealand's model, which is based on decriminalization, is the right choice. Neither of these models are perfect, even to those who defend them. Each group felt that their model was the best, but no one said that their model would get rid of prostitution completely.

However, I just heard the parliamentary secretary suggest that Bill C-36 would succeed in doing what no other country in this world, on our planet Earth, has done.

I would like the hon. member to say a few words about that and tell me whether she is as optimistic as the Conservatives about the 100% success rate we can expect from Bill C-36.

Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons ActGovernment Orders

June 12th, 2014 / 4:55 p.m.
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NDP

Hélène LeBlanc NDP LaSalle—Émard, QC

Mr. Speaker, the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Justice keeps using the same examples.

I would like to remind him that the Criminal Code already has provisions on human trafficking, exploitation and abuse. What he is talking about is not part of the bill. Rape and other such offences are already covered by the Criminal Code. Bill C-36 should be a response to the Bedford decision on the safety of sex workers. The Criminal Code of Canada already covers what the hon. member provided as an example. The Criminal Code has the answers for the cases he just mentioned. It is in the Criminal Code and not in Bill C-36. That is not the purpose of the bill.

Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons ActGovernment Orders

June 12th, 2014 / 4:55 p.m.
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Mississauga—Erindale Ontario

Conservative

Bob Dechert ConservativeParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Justice

Mr. Speaker, my colleague quoted some sex workers. I wonder if she has heard some of these quotes.

Earlier today, Katarina MacLeod, who was beaten, abused, and raped repeatedly from the age of five, forced into the sex trade when she got a little older, and then worked for 15 years in that business, said that first of all there is no safe place to carry on the sex business, and second, had Bill C-36, the government's new prostitution legislation, been around when she was in the business, there would be no more demand and no more supply

Had that bill been in place, maybe she would be less scarred today.

One of her colleagues, Timea Nagy, a native of Budapest, Hungary, came to Canada 14 years ago as a housekeeper. However, when she arrived, she was kidnapped and forced to work in Toronto's sex industry until, one day, she escaped. She is now a founder of an organization that helps victims of trafficking. She said:

I speak for the hundreds of children and girls I have met and talked to and rescued in the last 14 years who have been and continue to be raped, violated and exploited against their will.

She challenged the idea that prostitution is a profession. She called it “oppression 90% of the time”.

She, too supports Bill C-36. She said women deserve to be protected by this country.

Casandra Diamond, another former prostitute, who operated a brothel, said sex workers should feel safer because of this bill. She said:

I wish Bill C-36 had been in place for me when I needed it.

I wonder if the member would comment.

Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons ActGovernment Orders

June 12th, 2014 / 4:45 p.m.
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NDP

Hélène LeBlanc NDP LaSalle—Émard, QC

Mr. Speaker, I rise today to debate Bill C-36, An Act to amend the Criminal Code in response to the Supreme Court of Canada decision in Attorney General of Canada v. Bedford and to make consequential amendments to other Acts.

In my speech, I will read excerpts from the unanimous ruling of the Supreme Court to provide some context for the decision and the government's response, which takes the form of the bill we are debating.

Last December, the Supreme Court ruled unanimously that section 210, as well as paragraphs 212(1)(j) and 213(1)(c) of the Criminal Code—which prohibit people from keeping a bawdy-house, living on the avails of prostitution and communicating for the purpose of engaging in prostitution—violate the charter, because they infringe upon the right of sex workers and the security of their person.

The court ruled that current laws impose:

...dangerous conditions on prostitution; they prevent people engaged in a risky—but legal—activity from taking steps to protect themselves from the risks.

The court therefore asked the government to regulate prostitution “as long as it does so in a way that does not infringe the constitutional rights of prostitutes”.

In addition, an article in today's edition of La Presse indicates that the government seems more interested in imposing a new repressive model than in eliminating the problems identified by the Supreme Court.

Is the Minister of Justice's Bill C-36 a thoughtful and sensible response to the Supreme Court decision in the Bedford case? It would appear not. Once again, the Conservatives are using the big stick approach rather than a nuanced one. I would even go so far as to say that they are using a snowplow to remove everything in their path.

Will this bill protect the health and safety of sex workers? I do not think so. Will the bill protect women and girls caught in a cycle of dependence, violence and victimization? I do not think so. Will this bill prevent women, girls and boys from getting caught up in prostitution? I do not think so. Will this bill help support programs to assist people who want to get out of this situation? I do not think so.

I do not think so because this bill does not focus on prevention, but rather on repression. It does not consider the complexity of human nature and the reality of the society we live in, a society where appearances and money are strong lures, to the detriment of human beings and helping each other.

This was mentioned yesterday in the Winnipeg Sun's editorial:

Like with other criminal activity, laws prohibiting it rarely eliminates the problem....

While we want the government to crack down on pimps, human traffickers and people preying on the truly vulnerable, there’s nothing to suggest this law will reduce the demand or increase protections for women.

This is a newspaper that I do not often quote, but it was quite revealing.

Last winter, I attended an information session organized by station 13 of the LaSalle police. Representatives from all the community organizations in greater southwest Montreal heard from two community officers with the multidisciplinary investigations and youth coordination unit of the Montreal police service.

These experienced police officers gave us a realistic and frank description of prostitution and pimping. They want to change people's thinking about prostitutes and, above all, suggest ways to help those prostitutes who want to get out of the business. The program that they have put in place, “Les survivantes” or “the survivors”, gives female victims of this vicious circle the means to break out of it.

They also said that the image of pimping was somewhat glorified in popular culture and could be appealing to individuals who decide that the sexual exploitation of others is an easy way to make money. In their presentation, they demonstrated that prostitution was not a choice for many, but rather a lack of choice.

In our opinion, this bill, introduced by the Minister of Justice, does not respond to the Supreme Court ruling regarding the safety and protection of prostitutes. By making successive cuts to programs to prevent violence against women, the Conservatives really dropped the ball when it comes to dealing with this problem. Their systematic refusal to move forward with a national inquiry into missing and murdered aboriginal women leads us to believe that they have a very limited understanding of prostitution and violence against women.

The NDP recognizes that real action needs to be taken right away to improve the safety of sex workers and help them to get out of the sex trade, if they are not there by choice. To that end, significant resources must be allocated to income support, education, training, poverty relief and substance abuse programs for these women. We need a government that works with them to implement a comprehensive strategy to protect and support women.

I would also like to point out that clauses 46 to 48 refer to an equally controversial bill that was criticized by the new Privacy Commissioner, and that is the bill on cyberbullying. We call on the government and the Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada to go back to the drawing board and hold real consultations that take into account the opinions of a wide range of legal experts, stakeholder groups, the appropriate authorities and the main people involved, sex workers. The minister should also refer Bill C-36 to the Supreme Court to get its opinion on whether the bill honours the ruling in the Bedford case.

This government, as a legislator, must ensure that the bills introduced in the House are consistent with our Constitution and the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. What is more, the government has a moral responsibility to protect and ensure the safety of communities and workers, no matter what their occupation. We believe that the measures introduced and the announcements made by the Minister of Justice are inadequate and will not achieve the expected results.

Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons ActGovernment Orders

June 12th, 2014 / 4:40 p.m.
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Mississauga—Erindale Ontario

Conservative

Bob Dechert ConservativeParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Justice

Mr. Speaker, I would like to take this opportunity to respond to a comment that was made earlier about the meaning of “reasonably expected to be present” with respect to persons under the age of 18.

First of all, this test does have a meaning in criminal law. It is used in the provision that authorizes courts to impose prohibition orders on child sex offenders. That is section 161 of the Criminal Code. The provision that authorizes the imposition of peace bonds on suspected child sex offenders is section 810.1 of the Criminal Code.

Whether a particular location constitutes a public place where children can reasonably be expected to be present is a factual determination made by a court. This approach affords courts the discretion to apply the tests reasonably in different contexts. The objective of this offence is to protect children from exposure to prostitution, which the government views as a harm in and of itself. It criminalizes communication for the purposes of selling sexual services in these narrow circumstances. Bill C-36 recognizes the different interests at play, which include the need to protect from exploitation those who sell their sexual services as well as the need to protect vulnerable children from prostitution's harm.

I wonder if the hon. member could comment on that.

Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons ActGovernment Orders

June 12th, 2014 / 4:30 p.m.
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NDP

Isabelle Morin NDP Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine, QC

Mr. Speaker, I must inform the House I will be sharing my time with my colleague, friend and neighbour, the hon. member for LaSalle—Émard.

I rise today to speak to Bill C-36, An Act to amend the Criminal Code in response to the Supreme Court of Canada decision in Attorney General of Canada v. Bedford and to make consequential amendments to other Acts.

In fact, this is legislation to regulate prostitution in our country. I am pleased to rise and speak to this issue because it is something that is of great concern to my riding. Prostitution exists in Notre-Dame-de-Grâce—Lachine. It think it is an important issue and one that is of great concern to many people in my riding. Some of those people have come to talk to me about it over the past few weeks.

To give some background on this, in December, the Supreme Court ruled on the provisions of the Criminal Code that prohibit keeping a common bawdy-house, living on the avails of prostitution and communicating for the purpose of engaging in prostitution.

The Supreme Court found that these provisions were unconstitutional, as follows:

[The current statutes impose] dangerous conditions on prostitution; they prevent people engaged in a risky—but legal—activity from taking steps to protect themselves.

Currently, under our Criminal Code, prostitution is legal but there is no help for the prostitutes who engage in this line of work.

I want to address a number of things because the bill is very complex. We want to know what the government is doing to help sex workers. We all wish prostitution did not exist. However, it does exist because there are clients, people who provide their sexual services and people who exploit others for sexual purposes.

Last year, I participated in the study conducted by the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights on the bill introduced by my colleague from Ahuntsic. A police inspector from Montreal said something fairly shocking. He said that, in Montreal, you can order a woman like you can order pizza. That is the situation we are currently facing.

As legislators, we must consider why sexual services are so readily available in Montreal, Toronto, Vancouver and small towns. I think it is mainly because there are customers, but also because the women are very vulnerable. Our government does not help them very much.

Rather than taking an approach that marginalizes extremely vulnerable sex workers, we should be taking practical measures to improve their safety and help them get out of the sex trade, if they so desire.

We do not have statistics on the number of women who truly want to engage in this line of work. Earlier, a Conservative member said it was 10%, but we do not really have any idea what the actual number might be. In order to find out, we would have to allocate significant resources; provide financial support to these women; and offer them education, training and addiction treatment. There are many things we could do to help these women so that they do not get involved in the sex trade. Many women turn to prostitution because of poverty, whereas others do so to support an addiction. That is a fact.

According to the measures announced by the Conservatives in this bill, they are going to allocate $20 million to help women across Canada get out of the sex trade. I think it is a bit of a stretch for the government to say that it will be able to solve this problem and help women with $20 million. The government should be embarrassed about this announcement, which was made just a few weeks ago, on June 4.

That is one of the first things I want to talk about. There is prostitution in Lachine, close to my riding office. I once went up to one of these women to talk to her. As an MP, I believe I should speak to everyone.

This woman told me that she was doing this type of work because she has two children, that it pays more than other work and that, if she could, she would prefer to have another job, so she could have a better life. It is not necessarily a job that she likes, but as a poor, single mother with two children to raise, it is a simple way for her to make money quickly. That is unfortunate.

Our society could have decided to give her a good education, to help her, to provide support for her family and to establish community groups that would help her with workshops to raise her self-esteem. For example, in my riding, the organization La P'tite Maison de Saint-Pierre gives self-esteem workshops to women. That is the kind of community group we can support in order to keep women out of prostitution. When I hear that $20 million will be given out across Canada, I wonder what that will mean for my riding. That is not very much in the way of concrete help for these women. That is really unfortunate.

I would like to delve deeper into the bill and see what it does. The bill will create new offences related to prostitution, namely purchasing sexual services. That means that we are criminalizing the people who buy sexual services. Once again, that is an attack on female prostitutes or young men, because I am told that young men prostitute themselves as well.

Groups that study various models around the world say that criminalizing the purchase of sexual services scares women in some ways. Even though the Conservatives say that selling those services on the street corner will be prohibited, let us not kid ourselves; given the means made available to address the situation, there will still be women on street corners.

Let us assume that a woman is on the street corner and that a client pulls up in his car; obviously, she will not take the time to talk to the man or to look inside his car to make sure that there are no weapons or other items that could be dangerous for her.

Right now, when that happens, women certainly take the time to look inside to see whether there is a rope or something that could harm her or be dangerous for her. Under this bill, she will not do that. Clearly, she will quickly get in the car, which will be more dangerous for her.

In my view, this provision does not help sex workers. Given that this trade does exist, we need to ask ourselves what we can do for the health and safety of these workers. According to the Supreme Court decision, we must work to ensure the safety of these workers. Whether we like it or not, this is a legal activity in our system, and it must be regulated.

The bill makes changes that have to do with receiving a material benefit, advertising sexual services and communicating for the purpose of selling sexual services in a public place where children can “reasonably” be expected to be present. I have a problem with the word “reasonably”. It seems inappropriate.

I want to name some people who support us because this bill does not respond to the Supreme Court's decision.

The NDP calls on the government to refer Bill C-36 to the Supreme Court. It must do more to help prostitutes get out of prostitution, for example, through education, prevention and social housing. All Canadians have the right to work without the threat of violence. This bill does not solve that problem.

Steve Sullivan, the former ombudsman for victims of crime, is one of the people who agrees with us. This very credible man said:

Back in December, everyone seemed to agree on one point: The law shouldn’t criminalize sex workers. This bill will do just that—if they communicate...in public places where a child could reasonably be expected to be present.

Emmett Macfarlane said:

These provisions are not only bad policy, but they undoubtedly raise the same set of concerns the Supreme Court addressed when striking down the old provisions last December.

It is important to understand that we need to send this bill to the Supreme Court so that it can rule on whether we will end up with the same problem. We would then have to wait another year for provisions that truly help women get out of this situation.

No one here can prove to me that the Conservatives are truly helping women in our country. I do not think that this bill is proof of that either.

Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons ActGovernment Orders

June 12th, 2014 / 4:15 p.m.
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NDP

Françoise Boivin NDP Gatineau, QC

Mr. Speaker, I have a lot of questions, but I will save some for our work in committee.

I am not clear on how the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Justice interprets public places, so I would like him to clarify. For example, does he think that where Bill C-36 refers to an offence committed next to a school, that means only during school hours? Does this clause apply elsewhere in the bill to criminalize sex workers?

I asked the minister that question, but he never gave me an answer. Maybe that is because he does not know the answer. Maybe the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Justice knows. Can he define the expression “sexual services”? What does the bill mean by that?

Also, what about the new Bill C-13, which has just passed another stage without amendment, or rather with just a tiny, inconsequential one, even though we proposed 34 amendments? Could the provisions in Bill C-13, which give more powers to police officers, also apply in this context, with or without a warrant, if a person were advertising sexual services on the Internet? Would the Internet service provider also be guilty of a crime?

Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons ActGovernment Orders

June 12th, 2014 / 4 p.m.
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Mississauga—Erindale Ontario

Conservative

Bob Dechert ConservativeParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Justice

Mr. Speaker, I will get to that member's point about advertising in just a moment. She has it exactly wrong, as a number of commentators have. I will be happy to explain it to her. I hope she sticks around for my speech.

I am pleased to rise in support of Bill C-36, the protection of communities and exploited persons act. This legislation represents the government's response to the Supreme Court of Canada December 2013 Bedford decision.

Before discussing the measures proposed by Bill C-36, it is important to examine the Bedford decision, which has informed Bill C-36 proposals for law reform.

The NDP justice critic mentioned a few moments ago that we had not talked that much about the Bedford decision in relation to our bill, so I am going to do that right now. I hope she has a chance to stay and listen to my speech.

Under the current law, neither the purchase nor sale of sexual services is illegal. Instead, existing criminal offences prohibit activities related to prostitution. In Bedford, the Supreme Court of Canada found three of these offences unconstitutional: first, the bawdy house offence with respect to the practice of prostitution under section 210; second, the living off the avails of prostitution offence, which is paragraph 212(1)(j) and third, the offence of communicating in a public place for the purpose of purchasing or selling sexual services, which is paragraph 213(1)(c).

The court suspended the effects of its decision for one year, until December 19, 2014. If there is no legislative response this ruling will result in decriminalization of most adult prostitution-related activities.

The Supreme Court of Canada found that the impugned offences violate section 7 of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, which is the security of the persons who sell their own sexual services, by preventing them from taking measures to protect themselves while engaging in a risky but legal activity. Such protective measures include independently selling sexual services from a fixed indoor location, hiring bodyguards and drivers, and negotiating safer conditions for the sale of sexual services in public places.

Specifically, the offences were found to be grossly disproportionate or over-broad with respect to the legislative objectives, which are to combat neighbourhood disruption or disorder and to safeguard public health and safety; to target pimps and the parasitic exploitative conduct in which they engage, which is living off the avails of the offence; and to take prostitution off the streets and out of public view in order to prevent street prostitution nuisances, which is the public communication offence in paragraph 213(1)(c).

The objectives of existing criminal law prostitution provisions as described by the court focus on the nuisance aspects of prostitution, with the exception of the living off the avails provision, which was found to target exploitative conduct. As I mentioned, construing these objectives and these offences narrowly led to findings that they were unconstitutionally over-broad and grossly disproportionate in relation to their objectives.

The Supreme Court of Canada was nonetheless clear that Parliament is not precluded from imposing limits on where and how prostitution may be conducted as long as it does so in a way that does not infringe on the constitutional rights of those who sell their own sexual services. That is precisely what Bill C-36 would do. It would criminalize the harmful conduct associated with prostitution while respecting the constitutional rights of all Canadians.

To start, Bill C-36 would make prostitution an illegal activity by criminalizing half of the prostitution transaction. This is done to show that the people who are trapped in this awful trade, largely women, are victims. It is showing compassion toward them.

Whenever prostitution, which involves the purchase and sale of sexual services, takes place, a criminal offence would be committed by the purchaser. This would be the first time in Canadian criminal law that purchasing sexual services from an adult has ever been criminalized.

The preamble in Bill C-36 explains why it is making prostitution illegal. It is a clear statement of the objectives of the Bill C-36 proposals for law reform, clarifying that Parliament sees prostitution as an inherently exploitative activity that always poses a risk of violence. Members of both the Liberal Party and the NDP have said that they agree, that it is exploitative, and that most of the people trapped in this awful trade are being exploited. Prostitution would no longer be viewed as creating merely neighbourhood disruption or disorder or street nuisances.

The preamble explains that prostitution is not only viewed as a form of exploitation of those subjected to it. It also recognizes the social harm caused by the normalization of sex as a commodity to be bought and sold, and it clarifies the importance of protecting human dignity and the equality of all Canadians by discouraging prostitution, which has a disproportionate impact on vulnerable groups, including women and children, and especially aboriginal women and girls.

Accordingly, Bill C-36 seeks to denounce and prohibit the demand for prostitution and to continue to denounce and prohibit procuring others for the purposes of prostitution and the development of economic interests in exploiting others through prostitution. We hope these measures, over time, will reduce the incidence of prostitution in Canada and the exploitation of those who are trapped in this business.

It also seeks to denounce and prohibit the commercialization and institutionalization of prostitution, particularly when it occurs in businesses such as strip clubs, massage parlours, and through escort agencies, which is largely the case in my city of Mississauga. Finally, the bill seeks to protect communities from the harms associated with prostitution, including related criminality and the exposure of children to the sale of sex as a commodity. These are robust objectives that go far beyond what the Supreme Court of Canada found were the objectives of the existing criminal offences governing prostitution, thereby fundamentally altering the premise of any future charter analysis.

The new offences would have to be constitutionally analyzed through an entirely new lens, one that sees prostitution as a gendered practice, implicating the equality of women and minorities, one that sees prostitution as a practice that exploits those who sell their own sexual services, and one that sees prostitution as causing both community and social harm.

The Supreme Court of Canada expressed concern that the existing offences prevent the selling of sexual services from fixed indoor locations, which the court found to be the safest way to sell sex. If members read the decision, that is exactly what the three appellants, Bedford, Lebovitch, and Scott, asked for. They had all been in the business. They had all been owners of escort agencies, and they had all said, “When you're out on the street, you get beaten. There's no way to properly protect yourself”, and they asked the court to give them the ability to do it safely indoors.

Notably, Bill C-36 criminalizes purchasing sexual services but not selling sexual services. Furthermore, it immunizes from prosecution those who sell their own sexual services with respect to any part they may play in the new purchasing, material benefit, procuring, and, I will point out for my friend, advertising offences. I would recommend that she take a look at proposed paragraph 286.5(1)(b) contained in Bill C-36, and she will find there a specific exemption for that.

It has been misunderstood by a number of commentators in the media. John Ivison and Andrew Coyne of the National Post and Tim Harper of the Toronto Star, got it wrong. They failed to read that provision of the bill, and therefore, based their articles on the absence of the ability of a sex worker to advertise her own services. I would say that Mr. Harper was corrected subsequently by his own colleague, Tonda MacCharles, in a later article and also on CTV's Question Period. Don Martin of CTV also got it wrong. They just failed to read the bill.

I hope they will be listening today and have a chance to take a look at that provision and perhaps comment on how this bill does not prevent sex workers from properly advertising their services in a safe way. This means that persons who sell their own sexual services cannot be prosecuted when they sell sexual services from a fixed indoor location, whether independently or co-operatively. As long as the only benefit received from selling sexual services co-operatively in one location is the safety of proximity to others and each person receives only the profits from their own prostitution, no offence is committed. This approach comprehensively responds to the Supreme Court of Canada's safety concerns about the ability to sell sexual services indoors.

The Supreme Court of Canada's second major concern was that existing offences prevent those who sell sexual services from hiring bodyguards and others who may enhance their safety, but we all know the risks associated with allowing the development of economic interests in exploiting others through prostitution. Third parties may start out as bodyguards or drivers and then over time become abusive pimps who will stop at nothing to maximize profits by exploiting the prostitution of those who work for them, especially women and children.

Bill C-36 carefully balances the Supreme Court of Canada's safety concerns with the need to ensure that exploitative third parties are criminalized. It achieves this goal by criminalizing receiving a financial or other material benefit that is obtained or derived from the purchasing offence, limiting the scope of the offence through legislated exceptions and ensuring that the exceptions do not apply in exploitative circumstances.

The legislated exceptions ensure that persons who sell their own sexual services have the same ability to interact with others as anyone else. The bill would not criminalize those who legitimately receive material benefits from the prostitution of others.

Specifically, the exceptions clarify that the offence would not apply if the person who receives the benefit is in a legitimate living arrangement with a person who provides sexual services, such as a spouse, child, or roommate; if a person receives the benefit as a result of an obligation owed to them, such as where financial support is provided to a disabled parent or where a gift is purchased with the earnings of prostitution; and also if a person receives the benefit in return for goods or services offered on the same terms and conditions to the general public, such as an accountant, a taxi driver, or a security company that offers goods or services to anyone.

In addition to all of that, there is a specific exemption if a person receives the benefit in return for a service or good that is offered informally, such as babysitting or even protective services, as long as the benefit is proportionate to the value of the good or service the person performed and that they did not counsel or encourage prostitution. In short, an arm's-length relationship is required.

This is in the proposed new paragraph 286.2(4)(d) of the bill. It would provide for the sex workers, who my friend is concerned about, to hire a bodyguard on commercial terms to provide security in that safe place. That is why this bill stands on all four corners with the Bedford decision, in my view.

These exceptions reflect existing case law that carves out exceptions to the current living on the avails of prostitution offence. The legitimate living arrangement and the legal and moral obligation exceptions find their origin in the Ontario Court of Appeal's 1991 Grilo decision, which was cited as an authority on these issues by the Supreme Court of Canada in the Bedford case. The exception related to goods and services offered to the general public originates in a line of cases, starting with the 1962 House of Lords decision in Shaw.

The exceptions respond to the Supreme Court of Canada's concern that existing laws do not permit those who sell their own sexual services to take safety measures, such as hiring bodyguards and drivers. However, as I have said, Bill C-36 would strike a careful balance. The exceptions I have just described would not apply if the person who receives the benefit uses violence, intimidation, or coercion; abuses a position of trust, power, or authority; or provides any intoxicating substances to assist or encourage the other person's prostitution.

As we know, that is very often the case. They find young girls who maybe have run away. There has been a problem at home. They find them, they give them alcohol, they give them drugs, they get them addicted. Then they are their slaves, and they put them out on the street to feed that filthy habit over and over again.

The bill would also criminalize where a person procures another person's prostitution or if the benefit is received in the context of a commercial enterprise that offers sexual services for sale, such as a strip club, a massage parlour, or an escort agency in which prostitution takes place. We know those types of businesses are often run by criminal organizations, such as gangs and the Mafia. That is the kind of behaviour we want to criminalize. It is not what the women who are exploited are doing, but the people who are actually exploiting them.

This approach would make it very clear that the exceptions to the material benefit offence would not be available if exploitative conduct commonly practised by pimps is involved. Such an approach responds to the Supreme Court of Canada's safety concerns while at the same time providing protection from the exploitation that involvement in prostitution generally always causes.

The Supreme Court of Canada's final concern was that persons who sell their own sexual services be able to take steps to negotiate safer conditions for the sale of sexual services in public places. Existing laws criminalize all public communications for the purpose of either purchasing or selling sexual services. The Supreme Court of Canada found that this offence prevented those who sell their own sexual services from being able to negotiate safer conditions for their transactions in public places.

On the other hand, Bill C-36 proposes, first, a new offence that would criminalize communicating in any place for the purpose of purchasing sexual services, and second, a separate offence that would criminalize communicating for the purpose of selling sexual services, but—and I have to emphasize this—only in public places where children could reasonably be expected to be present.

Prohibiting all communication associated with the purchasing of sexual services is justified by the new legislative objective of reducing demand for sexual exploitation. In short, purchasing sexual services constitutes exploitative conduct. Attempting to purchase by communicating for that purpose is equally problematic. Prohibiting communication for the purposes of selling sexual services in public places where children can reasonably be expected to be present, on the other hand, in my view strikes a careful, justified, and reasonable balance between the interests of two vulnerable groups: those who are exploited through prostitution, and children who may be exposed to the sale of sex as a commodity and to the dangers associated with prostitution, such as the presence of drugs, pimps, and persons associated with organized crime.

My colleague, the member for Kildonan—St. Paul, mentioned earlier that when she was a school teacher, there were pedophiles and pimps who hung around the schoolyard. They would approach young girls and try to entice them either to get in a car with the pedophile or to get into business with the pimp, and that is the kind of thing we are concerned about.

Bill C-36 does not prohibit persons who sell their own sexual services from communicating for that purpose in any public place other than when children could be harmed by exposure to prostitution.

Furthermore, the Supreme Court of Canada's Bedford ruling is clear that prostitution offences are intertwined, meaning that the offences impact on one another. Greater latitude in one measure, such as permitting prostitutes to obtain the assistance of security personnel, for example, might impact on the constitutionality of another measure, such as forbidding the nuisances associated with keeping a bawdy house.

The regulation of prostitution is a complex and delicate matter. I agree with the Supreme Court of Canada's conclusion that regulating prostitution is a complex and delicate matter. Bill C-36 recognizes this complex need by striking careful balances between sometimes competing interests.

In conclusion, the new legislation proposes an entirely new, made-in-Canada response to prostitution. It tackles the demand for prostitution to reduce its prevalence, thereby protecting those who are exploited through prostitution from the risk of violence caused by their involvement in it.

The new purchasing offence, together with modernized prostitution offences criminalizing third-party involvement in the prostitution of others, sends a clear message: prostitution is dangerous and exploitative and harms society itself. No parent would wish to see their children enter the world of abuse and exploitation that constitutes prostitution.

Legislative approaches that view prostitution as an exploitative practice that victimizes those who are subjected to it have recently received growing international support. I note that France's National Assembly passed a bill in December 2013 that would implement such an approach, and I understand that the bill is currently before France's Senate.

Ireland's parliamentary justice committee recommended implementation of this type of approach in June 2013. The European Parliament recently endorsed such an approach in February 2014, and a United Kingdom parliamentary report recommended this type of law reform in March 2014.

Canada is not alone in its concern about prostitution's harms. These harms are real and require concerted effort to address. The government is committed to working with its provincial and territorial colleagues who enforce criminal law toward ensuring that prostitution's harms are not left unchecked.

Enacting Bill C-36 is the first step toward addressing prostitution's harms. Accordingly, I encourage all members of this House to join me in support of it.

Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons ActGovernment Orders

June 12th, 2014 / 3:50 p.m.
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NDP

Alain Giguère NDP Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC

Mr. Speaker, Bill C-36 clearly leads to confusion. The Supreme Court was asking that the Criminal Code not make the practice of prostitution more dangerous. It never asked for moral approval of prostitution. I have read the Supreme Court judgment, and it does not ask for moral approval. That is where the confusion lies. This legislation seeks to prohibit the world of prostitution because that is the only way the Conservatives have found to prevent women from being in danger in that world.

The question I want to ask my colleague is relatively simple. Do we really think that the Criminal Code alone is a solution that will put an end to the problem of prostitution?

Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons ActGovernment Orders

June 12th, 2014 / 3:50 p.m.
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NDP

Françoise Boivin NDP Gatineau, QC

Mr. Speaker, I will respond along the same lines. I am pleased because it gives me an opportunity to say a little more. A 20-minute speech is not long, especially for me. Therefore, the 10-minute question period allows me to expand on what I said.

I agree with him that we are not talking about one approach versus another. After reading Bill C-36, all the groups I met with agree that we need to get women out of drug addiction and poverty, which they do not always get into by choice. Sometimes they cannot help it. That is what we should work on.

All the Canadian groups that I heard agree that the government has really taken the worst route. The official opposition is not alone here. From what I have read, it seems that things did not go well within the Conservative caucus because they also have different opinions.

We have to stop all the posturing and focus on the real problem: the safety of sex workers. That is the message of the Bedford decision. At the same time, we have to work to get women out of poverty. If anyone can tell me with a straight face that he thinks the Conservative government's mission is to get women out of poverty, you will be able to knock me over with a feather.

Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons ActGovernment Orders

June 12th, 2014 / 3:50 p.m.
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NDP

Françoise Boivin NDP Gatineau, QC

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for her question.

I appreciate that she opened the door for me to talk about Manitoba's justice minister. She said that my speech was creative, but she should be addressing her compliments to the Supreme Court, since my speech focused on the ruling and I quoted some important passages. She is therefore calling a speech based on the Supreme Court ruling creative, but it was essentially just copying.

I found it rather strange to see a letter from my colleague that said:

“support from Manitoba government”.

It is funny, because I have had conversations about this. In fact, the minister of justice of Manitoba sent a letter on February 5, but it is now June 12. The member tables a letter that states, “We, in Manitoba, support the Nordic model.” When I asked questions this morning, they made a point of saying that it was not a Nordic model, but a made-in-Canada model.

Moreover, I look forward to hearing from Minister Swan of the New Democratic Party of Manitoba. I will let him scoop himself on Bill C-36 because he very clearly said that under no circumstances should prostitutes be criminalized and that ways to get them out of prostitution need to be provided for.

Two things he asked for are not there. I will not say how I would describe using his letter to make members of the House believe things, because I have too much respect for the member.

Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons ActGovernment Orders

June 12th, 2014 / 3:45 p.m.
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Conservative

Joy Smith Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB

Mr. Speaker, that is the most creative speech I have heard on the subject for a very long time. I realize that in 2004 the member opposite was a Liberal and then decided to be an NDP candidate in 2006. She does not keep up with the NDP policy. For instance, the NDP premier and the NDP justice minister in Manitoba have highly endorsed everything. The justice minister asked for criminalizing the purchasers of sex, continuing to criminalize the activities of those who prey upon the victims, and providing meaningful support to the victims. That is everything that we have in Bill C-36.

When I listened to the speech, it brought back to memory Mrs. Emerson from Gatineau. She trafficked three girls and got seven years for doing that. There are a lot of people in the member's area who strongly support Bill C-36. Today, there are a lot of people listening. What about the members of her caucus? I know some of the members of her caucus fully support this bill. Could you talk to me about the challenges that you have in your caucus--

Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons ActGovernment Orders

June 12th, 2014 / 3:35 p.m.
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NDP

Françoise Boivin NDP Gatineau, QC

Mr. Speaker, it is always a little irritating for those who are watching us and were here for the first part, but not the second part, or vice versa.

I was explaining that this government has aborted this, so to speak, in the sense that the Conservatives have not mentioned the Bedford decision much. They quoted one line from the decision to justify their Bill C-36.

It is important for hon. members in the House to clearly understand what the Supreme Court of Canada said about the three sections in question, those challenged by the claimants and the respondents/appellants on cross-appeal. According to the Supreme Court:

The impugned laws negatively impact security of the person rights of prostitutes and thus engage s. 7…The prohibitions all heighten the risks the applicants face in prostitution—itself a legal activity.

Earlier, I heard one of my colleagues in the House say that she was very pleased to hear that prostitution is now illegal. However, Bill C-36 does not go that far. With all due respect to the Conservatives and some other members, the bill before us does not make prostitution illegal.

The Conservatives left a few little loopholes because they know that this bill may also be a problem. It would be interesting to debate the issue of whether prostitution can be made completely illegal in Canada. I am going to do as the courts and judges would do: I am going to reserve judgment because the question is not before the court. The Supreme Court ruling goes on to say:

They do not merely impose conditions on how prostitutes operate. They go a critical step further, by imposing dangerous conditions on prostitution; they prevent people engaged in a risky—but legal—activity from taking steps to protect themselves from the risks. That causal connection is not negated by the actions of third-party johns and pimps, or prostitutes’ so-called choice to engage in prostitution. While some prostitutes may fit the description of persons who freely choose (or at one time chose) to engage in the risky economic activity of prostitution, many prostitutes have no meaningful choice but to do so. Moreover, it makes no difference that the conduct of pimps and johns is the immediate source of the harms suffered by prostitutes. The violence of a john does not diminish the role of the state in making a prostitute more vulnerable to that violence.

...compare the rights infringement caused by the law with the objective of the law, not with the law’s effectiveness. That is, they do not look to how well the law achieves its object, or to how much of the population the law benefits [or harms]. The analysis is qualitative, not quantitative. The question under s. 7 is whether anyone’s life, liberty or security of the person has been denied by a law that is inherently bad [that is the heart of the matter]; a grossly disproportionate, overbroad, or arbitrary effect on one person is sufficient to establish a breach of s. 7. [The test is stringent.]

...the negative impact of the bawdy-house prohibition (s. 210) on the applicants’ security of the person is grossly disproportionate to its objective of preventing public nuisance. The harms to prostitutes identified by the courts below, such as being prevented from working in safer fixed indoor locations and from resorting to safe houses, are grossly disproportionate to the deterrence of community disruption. Parliament has the power to regulate against nuisances, but not at the cost of the health, safety and lives of prostitutes. Second, the purpose of the living on the avails of prostitution prohibition in s. 212(1)(j) is to target pimps and the parasitic, exploitative conduct in which they engage. The law, however, punishes everyone who lives on the avails of prostitution without distinguishing between those who exploit prostitutes and those who could increase the safety and security of prostitutes, for example, legitimate drivers, managers, or bodyguards.

I was a little worried by some remarks I heard on panels I participated in. The Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Justice in particular suggested that, at any rate, a brothel, even though it is kept by people who are consenting, is not a place we want to see, that it is a nuisance and a form of exploitation. That is not quite what the Supreme Court tells us.

It also includes anyone involved in business with a prostitute, such as accountants or receptionists. In these ways, the law includes some conduct that bears no relation to its purpose of preventing the exploitation of prostitutes. The living on the avails provision is consequently overbroad. Third, the purpose of the communicating prohibition...is not to eliminate street prostitution for its own sake, but to take prostitution off the streets and out of public view in order to prevent the nuisances that street prostitution can cause. The provision’s negative impact on the safety and lives of street prostitutes, who are prevented by the communicating prohibition from screening potential clients for intoxication and propensity to violence, is a grossly disproportionate response to the possibility of nuisance caused by street prostitution.

I have often heard that from sex workers. They told us how important it is for them to communicate. As strange as it may seem for those who are not part of that industry and have never even gone anywhere near it, it is important for those women to be able to have a kind of reference system. In some places, they talk to each other in order to make sure that they are not putting their lives in danger.

The law is therefore not minimally impairing. Nor, at the final stage of the s. 1 inquiry, is the law’s effect of preventing prostitutes from taking measures that would increase their safety, and possibly save their lives, outweighed by the law’s positive effect of protecting prostitutes from exploitative relationships. The impugned laws are not saved by s. 1.

Allow me to quote the Supreme Court's most important conclusion. The government always likes to read this sentence and this sentence only: “It will be for Parliament, should it choose to do so, to devise a new approach…”. Sometimes, it says the rest of the sentence very quickly: “…reflecting different elements of the existing regime”.

In fact, however, the paragraph reads as follows:

Concluding that each of the challenged provisions violates the Charter does not mean that Parliament is precluded from imposing limits on where and how prostitution may be conducted, as long as…

This is the most fundamental point. The Supreme Court of Canada has not told the government that the Minister of Justice can do whatever he likes and that as long as he comes up with something different from what is in the current Criminal Code, it will be fine, that is his perfect right. That is not what the Supreme Court said. It says that it is not precluding the government from imposing limits on where and how prostitution may be conducted, as long as it does so in a way that does not infringe the constitutional rights of prostitutes.

As a result, since setting limits on prostitution is a complex and delicate subject, it is up to Parliament to act, should it choose to do so. That is the door that the Supreme Court has left wide open for Parliament. The Criminal Code already includes provisions prohibiting the exploitation of minors. We are going to hear a lot of talk about that from the Conservative benches, since they will want to prohibit that. However, it is already in the Criminal Code. Given that human trafficking is prohibited by the Criminal Code and that it has been recently improved with the bill that my colleague from Kildonan—St. Paul introduced, we can refine it all.

The Supreme Court did not necessarily require the government to introduce something in the coming year. However, if it did not do anything, the three sections deemed unconstitutional would die a natural death because they put the health and safety of sex workers in danger.

What did the government do? It took a hammer and started hammering at random, saying that it would make a few changes so that everyone would think it was solving the problem with prostitution. I would have liked to at least feel that the Conservatives took this seriously when the minister talked about $20 million during his press conference.

I remember the discussions I have had with people from the Women's Coalition for the Abolition of Prostitution. They told me how important it was. I want to quote Kim Pate, who is a member of the coalition:

Decriminalizing the women and holding accountable the men who buy and sell women and girls means nothing if women's economic, racial and social inequality is not addressed.

The Conservatives are still criminalizing prostitutes and investing a measly $20 million. It is ridiculous.

Business of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

June 12th, 2014 / 3:25 p.m.
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York—Simcoe Ontario

Conservative

Peter Van Loan ConservativeLeader of the Government in the House of Commons

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to have another opportunity to respond to the Thursday question from the hon. member for Burnaby—New Westminster.

I know how proud he claims to be about showing up to work. In fact, though, the New Democrats seem to have a spotty record on that. Last evening, that very member rose to speak to our government's bill to protect our communities and exploited persons—that is Bill C-36—and after one whole minute he moved to adjourn the House. He said we should all go home. Maybe that is the parliamentary equivalent of taking one's ball and wanting to go home when one is unhappy with how things are going in another meeting.

In any event, we did all dutifully troop into the House to vote on that at 6 p.m. However, what was very revealing was that only 61 of those 98 New Democrats stood in their places to vote. A few of them were missing their shifts, oddly. We did not find that on the Conservative side. In fact, we just had two votes in the House, and the number of New Democrats who were not standing in their places was very similar to that.

Therefore, when I ask myself who is not showing up for work, I can say it is not the Conservatives not showing up; it is, in fact, the New Democrats.

However, following the popular acclaim of last week's Thursday statement, I would like to recap what we have actually accomplished in the House since last week in terms of the legislative agenda.

Bill C-37, the riding name change act, 2014, which was compiled and assembled through the input of all parties, was introduced and adopted at all stages.

Bill C-31, the economic action plan, act no. 1, was adopted at both report stage and, just moments ago, at third reading.

Bill C-24, the strengthening Canadian citizenship act, was concurred in at report stage.

Bill C-20, the Canada-Honduras economic growth and prosperity act, was passed at third reading. Of course, the NDP tried to slow down its passage, but Conservatives were able to get around those efforts, as I am sure the 50 New Democrats on vigil in the House last night fondly appreciate, and we were able to extend our hours because there were, again, not even 50 New Democrats here in the House to stand in their places to block that debate as they wanted to. So we did finish the Canada-Honduras bill that night, and were able to vote on it.

The government's spending proposals for the year were adopted by the House, and two bills to give these plans effect, Bill C-38 and BillC-39, were each passed at all stages.

Bill C-22, the energy safety and security act, was reported back from committee, and several other reports from committees were also tabled. As I understand, we will see Bill C-17, the protecting Canadians from unsafe drugs act, reported back from the health committee in short order.

Finally, this morning we virtually unanimously passed a motion to reappoint Mary Dawson as our Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner.

Sadly, though, the New Democrats did not heed my call last week to let Bill C-32, the victims bill of rights act, pass at second reading. We were treated, sadly, to only more words and no deeds from the NDP.

Turning to the business ahead, I am currently anticipating the following debates. This afternoon and tonight, we will finish the debate on Bill C-36, the Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons Act, at second reading. That will be followed by third reading of Bill C-24 and second reading of Bill C-35, Justice for Animals in Service Act (Quanto's Law).

Tomorrow morning, we will debate Bill C-24, if necessary, and Bill C-18, Agricultural Growth Act, at second reading. After question period, we will get back to Bill C-32, and give the NDP one more chance to send the victims bill of rights to committee.

The highlight of Monday is going to be the report stage of Bill C-6, the Prohibiting Cluster Munitions Act. Tuesday’s feature debate will be Bill C-2, the Respect for Communities Act, at second reading. Wednesday will see us finish third reading, I hope, of Bill C-6. During the additional time available those days—in addition to Thursday and Friday of next week—I will schedule any unfinished debates on Bill C-18, Bill C-32 and Bill C-35.

I will also try to schedule debates on Bill C-22 and Bill C-17, as well as other bills, such as Bill C-3, the Safeguarding Canada’s Seas and Skies Act, at third reading; Bill C-8, the Combating Counterfeit Products Act, at third reading; Bill C-12, the Drug-free Prisons Act, at second reading; Bill C-21, Red Tape Reduction Act, at second reading; Bill C-26, Tougher Penalties for Child Predators Act, at second reading; Bill S-2, Incorporation by Reference in Regulations Act, at second reading; Bill S-3, the Port State Measures Agreement Implementation Act, at second reading; and Bill S-4, the Digital Privacy Act—which I understand we will receive shortly from the other place—at second reading.

JusticeOral Questions

June 12th, 2014 / 3 p.m.
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Central Nova Nova Scotia

Conservative

Peter MacKay ConservativeMinister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank the member for Kildonan—St. Paul for her exceptional hard work in support of vulnerable persons.

Our government's approach represents a comprehensive made-in-Canada model that reflects Canadian values. The bill would crack down on those predators, pimps, and johns who fuel the demand for this inherently dangerous activity, while protecting our communities. It would also provide for an exit strategy for victims.

We had heard today from courageous women who talked about the exploitation and victimization they had experienced. They saw merit in Bill C-36 and wished it had been in place for them.

It is a sensible, practical, principled approach that should get support from all members.

Second ReadingProtection of Communities and Exploited Persons ActGovernment Orders

June 12th, 2014 / 1:50 p.m.
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NDP

Françoise Boivin NDP Gatineau, QC

Mr. Speaker, this is not exactly a clear-cut debate. The member for Ahuntsic was saying that the government had decreed that prostitution was illegal, but that it was not saying that prostitution is now illegal in Canada. Selling is okay, but buying is not, and under some circumstances, selling is not okay.

With Bill C-36, the government tried to take considerable liberties, but it did not have the courage or the deep conviction to do what the member for Kildonan—St. Paul would like to see. The member took great pains to talk about all aspects related to pimps and vulnerable people, but she did not give very good answers to questions about the major problem with Bill C-36: clause 15. This clause criminalizes the very women, the very victims that the Conservatives go on and on about wanting to protect.

Positions aside, we all take our role seriously. I take my role as the official opposition's justice critic seriously, especially when I have to go before the NDP caucus, where it is not always easy to make recommendations.

The member for Kildonan—St. Paul is quite right in saying that we all have concerns about prostitution and human trafficking. However, it is not always easy to enforce laws that comply with the Constitution and our charter, since this government is extremely secretive.

Instead of sharing its information with us, the government introduced Bill C-36 at first reading, which was a response to a Supreme Court ruling. We are not asking for 15 legal opinions. We only want one opinion of the Supreme Court assuring us that the clauses of Bill C-36 are in compliance. This would make us fell more confident that we had a solid foundation. We are often forced to rely on our own resources, which are not government resources, to try to fulfill our common obligation as members of the House.

We sometimes have to enforce laws and set aside our own personal convictions. The other day, a news report made it clear just how passionate the member for Kildonan—St. Paul is about this issue. I understood her personal and religious convictions, and I respect that. However, in my role as justice critic, I need to examine laws and sometimes set my personal convictions aside. That is part of my role as representative for the people of Gatineau.

The government is so secretive that it is more than happy to use this expeditious process on an issue as important as prostitution, the world's oldest profession. Good luck to anyone who thinks they can get rid of it. We are all working to ensure that one day no one will feel the need to turn to prostitution. We hope that one day people will choose this line of work solely because of their own personal choices or beliefs. We are doing everything we can do achieve that, but no method in the world is perfect.

The government did a quick online consultation but no one has no idea how scientifically valid it is. It did not deny the fact that pretty much anyone was able to say whatever they wanted, whenever they wanted. We do not know where the responses came from; we do not have all of the details.

However, the government is not making that scientific poll public, and it will not release it unless it is forced to do so. I believe that it will not share the information before the end of July, based on how the minister has responded to questions in the House.

We will likely be examining Bill C-36 by then, given that it is subject to a time allocation motion. We will vote on it tomorrow, if not today. The committee will meet in early July, so that leads me to believe that we will have the opportunity to study the bill, but without that information. I find that unfortunate.

As I said, we rely on our resources. This bill is important to me; I want to do the right thing.

When I make a recommendation to my colleagues, I want it to be based not on my convictions and my own impressions, but on a careful analysis of the Bedford decision and on consultations. Like many here in the House, I consulted a lot of people. Many people wanted to talk to me about every aspect of this issue.

I heard from those who are advocating decriminalization and others who want prostitution to be legalized. Groups came to talk to me about the Nordic model. I heard from sex workers. Some of them like the idea of the Nordic model, others do not. I met with nearly every individual and every group that will come in July to tell us what they think about the issue.

I always shared my concerns with everyone I spoke to, and I think that we came to a consensus about the issue of safety.

As for the issue of safety, I believe it is very important to repeat the points made by the Supreme Court of Canada. The government and various Conservative members who spoke before me took a bit of liberty when quoting the Supreme Court. They attributed to the Supreme Court some things that it did not necessarily say, or they omitted, probably because it is to their advantage, certain aspects or certain words in some phrases, which are worth their weight in gold.

When we go out into our constituencies and people talk to us about prostitution, they all refer to the Bedford ruling. What is the Bedford ruling? I think it is important to review the main principles established in the Bedford ruling to determine whether Bill C-36 is in keeping with the ruling and whether it will pass the test included in that ruling. I am reading from the ruling:

...current or former prostitutes, brought an application seeking declarations that three provisions of the Criminal Code, R.S.C. 1985, c. C-46, which criminalize various activities related to prostitution, infringe their rights under s. 7 of the Charter...

Despite Bill C-36, section 7 of the charter still exists.

What are the three provisions?

...s. 210 makes it an offence to keep or be in a bawdy-house; s. 212(1)(j) prohibits living on the avails of prostitution; and, s. 213(1)(c) prohibits communicating in public for the purposes of prostitution. They argued that these restrictions on prostitution put the safety and lives of prostitutes at risk, by preventing them from implementing certain safety measures—such as hiring security guards or “screening” potential clients—that could protect them from violence. B, L and S also alleged that s. 213(1)(c) infringes the freedom of expression guarantee under s. 2(b) of the Charter, and that none of the provisions are saved under s. 1.

Everyone knows that the charter can be violated. If it is all right in a free and democratic society, it passes the test of section 1. Those were the arguments made by the three plaintiffs in the case.

I will spare you everything that was said in the Supreme Court, but suffice it to say that the three plaintiffs won on every count. Sections 210, 212(1)(j) and 213(1)(c) of the Criminal Code were declared incompatible with the charter. The declaration of invalidity was suspended for one year, giving the government time—

Second ReadingProtection of Communities and Exploited Persons ActGovernment Orders

June 12th, 2014 / 1:20 p.m.
See context

Conservative

Joy Smith Conservative Kildonan—St. Paul, MB

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to rise today and speak to Bill C-36, the protection of communities and exploited persons act. As my hon. colleagues know, this bill is the first of its kind in Canada. It is historic. For the first time in Canada's history the buying of sexual services would be illegal. For the first time, women trafficked into prostitution would not be treated as nuisances, but with dignity. For the first time, the Government of Canada would provide robust funding to help women and youth escape prostitution and their traffickers.

I want to begin by addressing one of the key myths that is being spread by the pro-legalization lobby. What Canadians have been told over the past week in the newspapers and other media is that prostitution is a legitimate occupation for women and that it is entirely separate from sex trafficking and exploitation. This is a lie. Prostitution exploits women, youth, and vulnerable populations. It escalates gender inequalities by turning women's bodies into a commodity to be bought, sold, rented, and exploited by men. In short, prostitution provides an avenue for abuse and violence.

Research of prostitution in Canada and abroad reveals that women in prostitution, whether by coercion or by choice, experience alarming levels of violence and abuse. One of the clearest links between prostitution and human trafficking is found in a recent empirical analysis of human trafficking trends in over 150 countries. Researchers at the University of Goettingen's Department of Economics found that, on average, legalizing prostitution increases human trafficking inflows.

The inseparable link between prostitution and sex trafficking has been recognized and adopted across political lines in Canada. In 2007, the report of the Standing Committee on the Status of Women, of which I was the vice-chair, adopted this position. “Turning Outrage into Action” said:

Like the majority of witnesses appearing before us, we came to the conclusion that prostitution is closely linked to trafficking in persons.

That is our own parliamentary report. It goes on to say:

We believe that prostitution is a form of violence and a violation of human rights. The Committee feels that the prostitute’s consent is irrelevant, because you can never consent to sexual exploitation.

This position was supported by the Conservative, Liberal, and NDP members who sat on the committee. The members for London—Fanshawe, York West, and Ahuntsic all sat on the committee with me and will remember the compelling evidence that we heard from survivors.

Let me be clear. Prostitution is the avenue or means for pimps and traffickers to sell women and youth. We cannot separate this fact, and we cannot separate prostitution from sex trafficking. Prostitution is the means for sex traffickers to profit off the exploitation and abuse of others by pimps. If Canada wants to seriously reduce sex trafficking, it must target those who drive prostitution through demand, namely, the johns. It must also target those who profit from and facilitate it, namely, the pimps. That is why Bill C-36 would make buying sex illegal for the first time, and it would significantly strengthen provisions against pimps and traffickers.

It has been appalling to hear from pro-legalization lobbyists over the past weeks that criminalizing the demand would make things more unsafe for women in prostitution and that it would have devastating consequences. This argument is absolutely absurd. One study that interviewed 100 prostitutes in Vancouver found that violence is the norm for women in prostitution. Sexual harassment, verbal abuse, stalking, rape, battering, and torture are the points on a continuum of violence, all of which occur regularly in prostitution.

This violence is perpetrated by johns and pimps. Let us be realistic. When looking to buy sex, a john is not concerned with whether the prostitute is free, underage, or trafficked, nor is he going to ask. In his mind, he wants to buy sex because he has been taught that it is acceptable to buy people to be used at his disposal. That is why we want to target johns.

There has been a paradigm shift that is so important in this country. Canada's approach must recognize that prostitution itself, not just violence, is a form of violence.

For over a century, the violence and the exploitation of women and youth in prostitution have been ignored. The historical approach to prostitution in our great country has never recognized the harms of prostitution. It has focused only on hiding it from public view by incorporating offences based on the nuisance of prostitution in the Criminal Code. Regarded as public nuisances, prostituted individuals were arrested and criminalized at much higher rates than the men creating the demand for commercial sex.

This profoundly misguided approach to prostitution and the treatment of prostitutes changed in this month, on June 4, 2014. This shift in the approach to prostitution is clearly evident in the preamble to Bill C-36, which states:

....the Parliament of Canada recognizes the social harm caused by the objectification of the human body and the commodification of sexual activity...

The preamble also highlights the goals of the new legislation:

...to protect human dignity and the equality of all Canadians by discouraging prostitution, which has a disproportionate impact on women and children...

The average age of entry into prostitution in this country is between 14 and 16 years of age. These are children.

Second, the preamble says:

...it is important to denounce and prohibit the purchase of sexual services because it creates a demand for prostitution...

Third, the preamble says:

...Parliament wishes to encourage those who engage in prostitution to report incidents of violence and to leave prostitution.

Another indicator of this fundamental paradigm shift is in the location of the new offences in our Criminal Code. Previously, before this bill, all prostitution-related offences were located in part VII of the Criminal Code, under “Disorderly Houses, Gaming and Betting”. The new offences target the purchase of sexual services and target pimps. These offences will now be located in part VIII of the Criminal Code, under “Offences Against the Person and Reputation”. This is a distinct acknowledgement that the act of buying sexual services is an offence against an individual. It is an offence against the most vulnerable individuals in our society, who are enslaved by a violent pimp, poverty, or drug addiction.

It is for this reason that this new approach will be supported by $20 million in new funding, including support for grassroots organizations that help individuals exit prostitution. It is essential that with new legislation we provide support to organizations that help women escape prostitution from all circumstances.

As a nation, we are at a crossroads in this country at this moment, but this is not an experiment in which we can play with the lives and freedoms of future generations. The other option for Canada is to legalize or fully decriminalize prostitution. This approach will also lead Canada into a fundamental paradigm shift to regulate prostitution like any other industry.

It is an appalling shift that would have a severe negative impact on women and youth. I am shocked that such legislation has been advocated by prominent members of the NDP front bench and adopted as party policy. That is also what I am listening to this morning from the Liberals.

Legalization has also been adopted as an official party policy by the Green Party of Canada, to the dismay of many of its members. On a blog post on the official website of the Green Party, Green Party blogger Steve May offers the following critique of this Green Party policy:

I believe it is the wrong policy for our Party at any time, but especially at this time when so many voices, such as Victor Malarek's, are now just starting to be heard about the fiasco which sex trade legalization has caused elsewhere in the world.

We do not have to wait 10 to 20 years to see how legalization of prostitution works out. We only have to look to countries that legalized prostitution 10 to 15 years ago. Let us look at Germany, where prostitution has been fully legalized and regulated as an industry since 2001.

The deputy chairman of the German Police Association stated:

...politicians have shot themselves in the foot by implementing this law. Even though it was well intended, it has only strengthened the criminals.

Some prosecutors, also from Germany, have admitted that it made their work in prosecuting trafficking in human persons more difficult.

Also, in 2013 Germany's leading online paper, Der Spiegel interviewed a retired detective, who stated:

Germany has become a centre for sexual abuse of young women from Eastern Europe, and a playground for organized criminals from all over the world.

German police and women's groups now view legalization as little more than a subsidy program for pimps that makes the market more attractive to human traffickers.

Today there are over 400,000 prostitutes filling brothels located along the borders of that country. Brothels openly advertise “sex with all women as long as you want, as often as you want, any way that you want”, “sex, oral sex, oral sex without a condom, three-ways, group sex, gang bang”. Women are reduced to a sexual commodity to be used by sex buyers and disposed of when they are done. This is the future that the official opposition, along with the Green Party, is proposing for Canadian women and youth.

Let us look at another implication of the policies of the NDP and the Green Party, and now we have heard from the Liberal Party as well. If prostitution were to be legalized and treated as an industry, women would be expected to apply for all job openings before being eligible for EI, so if our daughters have just been laid off, they would be expected to apply at the local brothel before being eligible for EI. That is not the future I want for my daughters and it is not the future that Canadian parents want for their children.

We should also look at the New Zealand model, which has been brought up quite often. It is often cited by the pro-legalization lobby as a perfect example of decriminalization. However, this is far from the reality of the facts.

The National Council of Women in New Zealand stated that “The only winners from the prostitution reform act 2003 are men” and that they are “still seeing girls as young as 13 and 14 years old on the streets selling their bodies”.

The council also said that researchers found that human trafficking in children had increased since 2003, especially in ethnic minority groups. Over 10 years after decriminalization, New Zealand's aboriginal populations were still significantly overrepresented and among the most vulnerable in street prostitution. We know this is also true for Canadian aboriginals, and it would only increase under legalization.

In 2012, the Prime Minister of New Zealand stated that he did not think the act had achieved a reduction in street and under-age prostitution at all.

A shift toward the legalization or normalization of prostitution in Canada is advocated by prominent NDP members and the Green Party. This would be disastrous for women's equality and for our aboriginal populations and other populations. It would turn the clock back years for women's equality.

When Bill C-36 was tabled a week ago in the House, I was stunned to see how many journalists became constitutional legal experts overnight. They seem interested in speaking to the well-paid representatives of the pro-legalization lobby, who decried the bill as the worst thing that could ever happen to women in prostitution. We should not kid ourselves. Huge profits are made by a few people in prostitution, and the adult industry stands to lose a lot of income.

The media largely ignored the front-line agencies that work with women in prostitution, the families of victims, and, most importantly, survivors themselves. I want to share their voices and experience with the House.

Katarina MacLeod, a survivor, says:

As an ex-prostitute who spent 15 years being raped and degraded daily, I had no one to turn to and there were no resources. ... Prostitution damages your mind body and soul. This why I am in total support of Bill C-36 which offers these woman an exit strategy....

This is from the daughter of a prostituted woman:

I was very relieved to hear that Bill C-36 is going to be implemented. ... I am glad our voices are being heard. My mother was a prostitute and I want no women or her children to have to experience that damage. I am in agreement with bill C-36 since it will be getting at the root of this issue, which is the people who purchase sex. As well as providing help for the women to exit this lifestyle, which is very necessary.

This is from the parents of a young woman who was brutally beaten by her pimp and later found murdered. They wrote to the Minister of Justice saying:

...it is our belief and our experience that tells us that if buying sex and selling others for sex was illegal, our daughter would still be alive and would be living a fulfilling and satisfying life. We strongly urge you to use this opportunity to enact new laws that would severely penalize those who buy sex, (the johns) and sell others for sex, (the pimps). Please act to protect the vulnerable and stop the exploitation and violence against young women and girls.

I want to note that front-line agencies and women's groups have raised a concern about the clause that would prohibit the selling of sex around public places where youth can be found, like schools and community centres. Some have said that the intent of this clause is focused on preventing youth from being solicited by johns, and this is a very good thing.

However, front-line agencies—who, I must emphasize, are strongly supportive of everything else in this bill—are concerned about unintended consequences that the clause could have on vulnerable women in prostitution. These are valid concerns, and I hope they will bring these concerns and suggestions forward when Bill C-36 is studied at committee.

It is my hope that Bill C-36 will be supported by members on all sides of the House. Having spoken to many MPs privately, I know support for the approach proposed in Bill C-36 does indeed cross party lines. There are many good people on all sides of this House who are supporting this bill. As parliamentarians, we share a collective desire for Canada to be a leader on human rights in the international community.

Proponents of legalized prostitution claim that it is the only option for a progressive society. I disagree. A truly progressive society encourages the equality and dignity of women, not the prostitution of women. I want to build a Canada that targets predators and pimps, helps vulnerable individuals escape prostitution, and upholds the dignity of women. We can do better for women and youth, and we must.

We have always heard about the Bedford case, and we hear voices across the way saying, “Oh, it is going to have a constitutional challenge.” I must remind those members that it was actually the Supreme Court that sent it to Parliament to build something new. This is what the Supreme Court said: “It will be for Parliament, should it choose to do so, to devise a new approach, reflecting different elements of the existing regime”.

The Supreme Court of Canada did something very wise. Instead of bringing down the law and saying, “This is the law”, it allowed 12 months for Parliament to reflect. I have to tell the House that thousands of people are watching these speeches today. Thousands of people are listening to individual MPs and what they are saying. Thirty-one thousand responses came. In my office today I have postcards that I have not even talked about. There are 36,000 signatures on petitions and over 50,000 signatures on postcards. This is Canada; I do not know all these people.

I have worked with sex workers and trafficking victims for a very long time. Since this bill was tabled, I have had a myriad of emails. Very many people want to come to the committee and support Bill C-36. They talk about maybe making little tweaks so we could do better.

The country is listening. The country is listening to the fact that here in Canada, members on all sides of the House have to ensure that we target the johns and ensure without a doubt that we provide programs and exit systems for prostitutes and trafficking victims, because behind the scenes the story that does not get out is about the bullying, the terrible threats, the coercion.

I heard from one 16-year-old girl whose boyfriend paid for a lot of things for her and then said, “You owe me $4,000 and you have to service Glen in the next room”. He was a trafficker. She was not going to do it. She said, “You're my boyfriend. I don't have to do that”. He said, “Yes, you do. I know where your sister goes to school. I know where she does her sports activities. We will get her if you don't do this”, and so that 16-year-old did it.

She got out. She is out of the trafficking ring now, and she is speaking out. We hear these voices all across this country.

This Parliament has to be responsible and support Bill C-36.

Second ReadingProtection of Communities and Exploited Persons ActGovernment Orders

June 12th, 2014 / 1:15 p.m.
See context

Liberal

Sean Casey Liberal Charlottetown, PE

Mr. Speaker, we absolutely do have an obligation to protect those most vulnerable. That is what the Supreme Court of Canada has directed Parliament to do. However, Bill C-36 would fail in that regard. The bill would drive prostitution into the dark corners. It would make it less safe. It would not, in any way, protect the most vulnerable. It fact, it would have the opposite effect.

The decision to double down on criminal sanctions in the face of a complex social problem is absolutely consistent with what we have seen with the Conservative government. When the only thing one has in one's tool kit is a sledgehammer, everything looks like a rock. If there is a complex social problem, the Conservatives have a mandatory minimum for that. The very problem with the overarching approach of the current government is that when faced with complex social problems, the Conservatives seem to always have a one-size-fits-all solution.

Criminalizing the very people who need protection is the wrong way to go, but, sadly, that is the approach that has been chosen.

Second ReadingProtection of Communities and Exploited Persons ActGovernment Orders

June 12th, 2014 / 1:15 p.m.
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Mississauga—Erindale Ontario

Conservative

Bob Dechert ConservativeParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Justice

Mr. Speaker, last week the member's colleague, the member for Malpeque and the Liberal critic for public safety, agreed with the NDP critic for justice and myself that the majority of the women who find themselves in this ugly trade are in fact exploited. By the way, we did not say that it is 51% who are exploited. The studies we have seen show that it is more like 90% of the women are exploited, and some would say it is higher than that. Do we not have an obligation as parliamentarians to protect those people?

Earlier today, Katarina MacLeod, a former sex worker, appeared at a press conference and told her story. She detailed a harrowing story of abuse, rape, and exploitation starting at the age of five when she was molested, and it lasted through her 15 years as a sex worker. She went on to say that if Bill C-36, the government's proposed prostitution legislation, had been around when she was a sex worker, there would have been no demand and no supply, and that maybe she would be less scarred today. She said, “I can tell you there is no safe location for prostitution“. Not inside, not out on the streets.

I wonder if the member could comment on that as well as on protecting our communities.

Second ReadingProtection of Communities and Exploited Persons ActGovernment Orders

June 12th, 2014 / 12:50 p.m.
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Liberal

Sean Casey Liberal Charlottetown, PE

Mr. Speaker, on behalf of the Liberal Party of Canada, I am honoured to speak today to Bill C-36.

Today, we debate a Conservative bill that purports to comply with the Supreme Court's decision in the Bedford case. Allow me to briefly go over the circumstances that led us here today, debating the bill.

First, we are here today because a group of courageous sex workers challenged in court, and at great expense, the laws that govern prostitution, commonly known as the “Bedford case”. They did so because they wanted to ensure their work could be done in such a way that protected their security. They fought for safety and security not only for themselves, but for all people involved in the sex industry in Canada, and the Supreme Court of Canada agreed with these women.

By way of background, and many Canadians may be unaware of this, prostitution is currently legal in Canada and has been so since the Criminal Code came into force in 1892. It is the many activities surrounding prostitution which the Criminal Code prohibits, including keeping, using, or transporting a person to a bawdy house, living on the avails of prostitution or communicating in public for the purposes of engaging in prostitution. That was the state of the law prior to the Bedford case.

In December 2013, the Supreme Court struck down those sections related to bawdy house, living on the avails of prostitution and communicating for the purposes of prostitution. The court ruled that these provisions violated section 7 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, which guarantees the right to life, liberty and security of the person. The court also indicated that the provisions made it almost impossible to engage in prostitution in a safe environment, as a person selling could not legally operate indoors or hire security personnel. It was a historic ruling.

The court also provided government with one year to legislate and to do so with the interests of providing a legal framework that protected the safety of sex workers. This is this the government's response. Here, in part, is what the summary of Bill C-36 states:

This enactment amends the Criminal Code to, among other things,

(a) create an offence that prohibits purchasing sexual services or communicating in any place for that purpose;

(b) create an offence that prohibits receiving a material benefit that derived from the commission of an offence referred to in paragraph (a);

(c) create an offence that prohibits the advertisement of sexual services offered for sale and to authorize the courts to order the seizure of materials containing such advertisements and their removal from the Internet;

(d) modernize the offence that prohibits the procurement of persons for the purpose of prostitution;

(e) create an offence that prohibits communicating — for the purpose of selling sexual services — in a public place, or in any place open to public view, that is or is next to a place where persons under the age of 18 can reasonably be expected to be present;

As the justice minister said last week in his press conference and yesterday in his speech, the proposed measures criminalize prostitution for the first time since 1892. It criminalizes advertisement of sexual services and criminalizes communicating in public, which is one of the very components of the existing law that the court had already struck down in Bedford.

It is hardly surprising then that a great many of us in the House, and outside of the House, are concerned about the approach the government is taking. By criminalizing almost all aspects of prostitution, the government claims to have struck a made-in-Canada solution to the so-called Nordic model.

Sadly, Bill C-36 has as much, or more, in common with the prohibitionist approach in force in Albania, Croatia and Russia.

In Russia, brothels are illegal. Under Bill C-36, they would also be illegal in Canada. In Russia, living on the avails of prostitution is illegal. Under Bill C-36, this would also be illegal in Canada. In Russia, buying sex is illegal. Under Bill C-36, this would also be illegal in Canada.

In Russia, selling sex is illegal. Under Bill C-36, except for a few narrow exceptions, it will also be illegal in Canada. Selling sex will be illegal in public, it will be illegal near places where children may be, and it will be illegal with underage prostitutes. The differences between the Russian approach and this so-called made-in-Canada approach are relatively minor. I wonder if those present find it somewhat troubling that a country with Russia's human rights record has a regime governing this social issue that is so close to the legislation before the House today.

The purpose of the Bedford case in the Supreme Court decision was not to pass moral judgment on this activity but rather to provide a legal framework that would make the environment safe for the women and men involved in the sex industry. Therefore, it is incumbent on the Conservatives to introduce a law that provides a legal framework that would make sex work safer. Instead, we have a law that would do the opposite.

Bill C-36 should be about public safety, and I have concerns that the bill falls short of that goal. I am not at all convinced that this bill would protect the women and men who are engaged in sex work. I would also suggest that Bill C-36, in all likelihood, violates the charter with respect to section 7, on life, liberty, and security of the person; with respect to the provisions regarding cruel and unusual punishment; and in respect of the ban on advertising, the charter protection of free speech. One wonders whether the Conservatives and the justice minister know this.

Perhaps they know that this bill is unconstitutional, and perhaps they know that the bill is not consistent with the Supreme Court ruling in the Bedford case. Again, the Conservatives have a duty to comply with the spirit of the Supreme Court ruling in Bedford. I am not convinced that this is the case, and I doubt that the bill meets the letter or the spirit of the Bedford ruling. The one element of the court ruling they seem to have complied with was the one year provided by the Supreme Court to legislate in this matter.

The last couple of times they faced problems with legislation that clearly intersected with the Constitution, the Conservatives did a couple of things. The two most recent examples are the Senate reference and the Nadon appointment. With respect to the Senate reference, the Conservatives realized that there was a potential conflict with the Constitution and referred the matter to the Supreme Court. With the Nadon appointment, again they realized that there was a potential conflict with existing legislation. They took a couple of steps. First, they sought outside opinions with respect to compliance with the Supreme Court Act, and second, they also made a stated case to the Supreme Court.

In addition, there are provisions within the Department of Justice Act, section 4.1, that come into play with respect to the constitutionality of the legislation. Undoubtedly the government has an opinion pursuant to section 4.1 of the Department of Justice Act.

There is no doubt that this bill is also headed, eventually, to the Supreme Court for adjudication on whether it complies with the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. However, the minister to date has refused to refer the bill to the Supreme Court to ensure its constitutional validity, resorting instead, as we saw yesterday, to personal insults. Nor have the Conservatives given any indication that they will disclose any time soon key evidence to support the bill.

Perhaps this bill is a political stopgap measure to meet the one-year deadline imposed by the Supreme Court. Perhaps the bill is a politically driven document with an overarching purpose, which is to punt this sensitive and important issue beyond the next election. Refusing a referral to the Supreme Court of Canada is consistent with this view.

As I have indicated on many occasions, the Conservatives have a track record of introducing legislation for political and partisan reasons. I hope that is not the case in this instance. I hope it is not the intent of the Conservatives to tee up the fundraising machine on an issue related to the safety of sex workers in Canada, in the context of the bill and the court ruling. I hope that the Conservatives will avoid what they have done so often in the past and will avoid the temptation to place their own political interests first.

I am also concerned about the lack of transparency as it relates to evidence. Why will the Minister of Justice not produce the evidence to support his assertion that the bill is constitutional? Why will he not waive his privilege and release the Department of Justice documents that prove that Bill C-36 passes the charter test, as is required under section 4.1 of the Department of Justice Act? Why will the minister not release any evidence, if he has any, that would support his contention that the bill is charter compliant?

We know that he will not release any charter compliance documents, but the minister is also refusing to release any time soon the $175,000 study his department conducted on this topic. Canadians want to know why the minister is refusing to release the study, a study paid for with public funds and one that would have material relevance to the five-hour debate before this House and material relevance to the committee hearings that are undoubtedly on the horizon.

Might we speculate as to why the minister would refuse to release that study? Could it be that the study might contain facts or evidence inconvenient to the Conservative's position or political interests?

As criminal defence lawyer Michael Spratt said in a recent blog about research and the recent cuts made at the justice department:

It is sometimes said that justice is blind—but justice policy should not be....

This is not about politics—quite the opposite—this is about evidence-based policy. It is only when legislation is based on legitimate evidence that there can be any confidence that the law will accomplish its goals.

Perhaps the Conservatives are not really concerned with achieving their criminal justice goals, (i.e., keeping the public safe). They have ignored evidence on drug policy, minimum sentences, and child protection—to name a few (resulting in multiple laws being struck down as unconstitutional).

In the lead-up to introducing this bill, the minister was claiming to have all the evidence he needed. What might that evidence be? The minister seems to be basing his bill in part on an online survey he conducted. A voluntary, non-scientific, online survey cannot be the basis for constructing a bill of such importance, let alone one mandated by the Supreme Court of Canada. We really should be concerned that the government seems to be using a Kijiji approach to public policy.

Also notably absent from this bill is any measurement mechanism. It is often said that we cannot manage it if we do not measure it. There are absolutely no provisions in this bill to collect data on the effectiveness of the measures contained in it. Data collection would help inform future amendments and fiscal measures to help the most vulnerable. The concern over this is magnified when we look at the millions of dollars cut out of the Department of Justice budget with respect to research. The reason given is that all too often the research did not align with government priorities. Against that backdrop, we have the absence of any data collection measures in this bill. It is indeed troubling.

An email was recently sent to the leader of the Liberal Party by a woman named Rachel. She wanted the opportunity to share her story about the impact this legislation will have on her. She wanted someone to listen to her and to the many others who feel similarly. Here is what she wrote:

Bill C-36 horrifies me—it will have a catastrophic effect on my safety and livelihood.

I have been an indoor sex worker for 5 years. I screen clients to ensure my safety. This involves asking for a reference from another sex worker, and then contacting that worker to ensure the potential client was respectful. If it's the client's first time seeing a sex worker, I require their full legal name, employment information, and cell phone number. I have a conversation via phone or email to discuss what services they are seeking, and what I am comfortable providing.... I check the client's information against a bad date list—a compilation of bad clients which is shared among sex workers. I always meet new clients in a public place prior to the session, for example: a coffee shop or the lobby of their hotel.

Because I am able to screen my clients, I have NEVER experienced violence during my 5 years in sex work. If you criminalize my clients, they will be unwilling to provide the screening information I require to ensure my safety. I will not have any client information to add to a bad date list should something go wrong. If they've seen a sex worker in the past, they will not want to provide that reference because it will mean they are admitting to committing a crime. I will be forced to accept clients that block their phone number, hide their identity, and have no references. This is a gift to sexual predators posing as clients.

Like 90% of sex workers in Canada, I work from an indoor space, known as an “incall”. If I am assaulted in my workspace, due to my inability to screen my clients, I will be unable to contact the police, as this would reveal the address of my incall location. This means police can easily arrest my good clients as they come to see me at my safe indoor location. I also risk being evicted by my landlord.

Bill C-36 will have an even worse impact on street based sex workers, who also rely on screening their clients to ensure safety. Street based workers need time to refer to bad date lists, to negotiate safer sex practices (such as condom use), and to assess the client. Bad date lists may include the time and date of an incident, a description of the vehicle, a licence plate number, a description of the person, etc. If clients are criminalized and fearful of arrest, they will try to speed up the process limiting the time a sex worker has to vet their client, and refer to a bad date list. Sex workers will be forced to jump into a vehicle with a client without taking these vital safety measures. They will be forced to work in isolated areas away from police, so their fearful clients will continue to see them. Bill C-36 is a gift to predators posing as clients.

This bill will not stop sex workers from working, it will just impede their ability to work safely.

The letter closes with:

Bill C-36 will kill sex workers if it is passed.

History will look poorly on this government for many reasons: the deliberate division, the attack on people who disagree, the politicizing of criminal law, the abuse of power, election fraud, and the list goes on, but I believe that what the government is doing here today with this bill is particularly concerning.

The government's history of politicizing every issue causes us great concern about what it has done with the bill before the House. Never should the interests of a political party trump the safety of Canadians.

Many people believe that Bill C-36 will hurt people, and it will potentially force sex workers into the back alleys without the protection they need.

Parliament has a duty to protect Canadians, whether or not we personally morally agree with their profession. The Conservatives have a duty to obey the letter and the spirit of the Supreme Court ruling in the Bedford case. On all these counts, the Conservatives have failed and are doing so for political reasons, and for that they will have to live with the consequences should Bill C-36 be enacted by Parliament.

The House resumed from June 11 consideration of the motion that Bill C-36, An Act to amend the Criminal Code in response to the Supreme Court of Canada decision in Attorney General of Canada v. Bedford and to make consequential amendments to other Acts, be read the second time and referred to a committee.

June 12th, 2014 / 12:20 p.m.
See context

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Mike Wallace

All right, there you go.

Committee, we will go vote now in the House.

There is important committee business we need to discuss after the vote in the House. If you could come back right after the vote, we'll have a short in camera meeting about future committee business. We need to discuss what we're going to do with Bill C-36.

Thank you very much. We'll suspend until after the vote.

[Proceedings continue in camera]

Bill C-36—Time Allocation MotionProtection of Communities and Exploited Persons ActGovernment Orders

June 12th, 2014 / 11:50 a.m.
See context

Essex Ontario

Conservative

Jeff Watson ConservativeParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Transport

Mr. Speaker, the matter immediately before the House is the use of time allocation, which I point out is routinely used by Liberal majority governments in this country, but also, as I understand it, is used writ large in the mother Parliament back in the U.K.

As the minister has rightly pointed out earlier, this is an efficiency tool in terms of ensuring that the House, in a timely fashion, not only considers issues but makes decisions on them, and it also ensures that these matters get to committee in a timely fashion, so that the detailed study can occur. Not only is debate in the House important, but the discussion and input of Canadians in the broader civil society is important as we deal with an issue that has a lot of diverse opinions among the Canadian public.

I wonder if the minister could comment on the participation of Canadians in terms of consultation before the drafting of this particular bill. I wonder if he could comment further on what he was hearing in terms of specifics from Canadians and stakeholders and how that was incorporated into this particular bill, Bill C-36, that is before the House.

Bill C-36—Time Allocation MotionProtection of Communities and Exploited Persons ActGovernment Orders

June 12th, 2014 / 11:45 a.m.
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NDP

Hélène Laverdière NDP Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC

Mr. Speaker, just a few moments ago, I heard the minister say that the use of time allocation in debates is not something new, that it is a parliamentary tradition and part of the process. However, what is new is that it has been used 72 times in a very short period of time. This even breaks the Liberals' record. It seems to me that the government wants to be in the Guinness World Records. However, this is a record to be ashamed of, not proud of.

Let me read the title of the bill we are dealing with here. It is Bill C-36, An Act to amend the Criminal Code in response to the Supreme Court of Canada decision in Attorney General of Canada v. Bedford and to make consequential amendments to other Acts. I think the title alone shows the legal and technical complexity of the issue. This legislation can have life-or-death consequences for some people. Why are we being muzzled again when we are debating this bill? Why does the government not want to give us the time to do a good job? When will the government stop muzzling Parliament itself?

Bill C-36—Time Allocation MotionProtection of Communities and Exploited Persons ActGovernment Orders

June 12th, 2014 / 11:45 a.m.
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Conservative

Peter MacKay Conservative Central Nova, NS

Mr. Speaker, as a member of the majority government, I am going to suggest to my hon. friend that the use of time allocation is not some sort of new and innovative approach that has been taken by this government. I have been around here for some time, 17 years, much like the Chair, and I have seen this is very often used to keep the House moving and to keep legislation moving through the normal process.

In the case of the bill before the House, Bill C-36, the subject of this debate, the Supreme Court of Canada has specified a one-year period in which this legislation must respond to the gap in the Criminal Code that was created by the Bedford decision.

Therefore, there are expedited reasons to move this legislation forward, to get it through the second reading stage of the process and into committee so that we may have the ability, the somewhat unusual ability, for the justice committee to examine this legislation in greater detail and to hear from witnesses. We are looking at doing a similar process, a simultaneous process with the Senate, so that we can meet the deadline.

When we return in the fall, that good work will be done by members of the justice committee, members of the House from all sides, to provide rigorous examination of the legislation, to provide feedback, to improve upon the bill, to bring it back to Parliament for debate in the fall, and to see that it then finishes the regular process of proceeding through this chamber and through the Senate and passes into law well in advance of that December deadline set by the Supreme Court of Canada.

Bill C-36—Time Allocation MotionProtection of Communities and Exploited Persons ActGovernment Orders

June 12th, 2014 / 11:40 a.m.
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NDP

Françoise Boivin NDP Gatineau, QC

Mr. Speaker, what a surprise. This is, what, the 72nd time? It is tempting to repeat the arguments we have been making since the first time the government moved a time allocation motion. This time, the motion is on Bill C-36, which was meant to be a response to the Supreme Court's ruling on certain sections of the Criminal Code.

However, I do not get the impression that this motion is meant to silence the opposition. It seems as though it is meant to hide the debate from the Conservatives' own base. That is what I would like to ask the minister.

Yesterday I read a rather interesting report after the Conservative caucus meeting. It appeared to be saying that the government's strategy was not clear. The Conservatives themselves are divided. Some support decriminalization, some support outright prohibition, and some are not happy with the government's decision because what it is doing is not clear. The government seems to want to hide things and speed up the debate, keep it under the radar and get the committee work done in the summer, when everyone is gone.

This is my question for the minister. Was this time allocation motion moved not to prevent the opposition from speaking, but to prevent his own colleagues from speaking to this bill?

Bill C-36—Time Allocation MotionProtection of Communities and Exploited Persons ActGovernment Orders

June 12th, 2014 / 11:35 a.m.
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York—Simcoe Ontario

Conservative

Peter Van Loan ConservativeLeader of the Government in the House of Commons

moved:

That, in relation to Bill C-36, An Act to amend the Criminal Code in response to the Supreme Court of Canada decision in Attorney General of Canada v. Bedford and to make consequential amendments to other Acts, not more than five further hours shall be allotted to the consideration at second reading stage of the Bill; and

That, at the expiry of the five hours provided for the consideration at second reading stage of the said Bill, any proceedings before the House shall be interrupted, if required, for the purpose of this Order and, in turn, every question necessary for the disposal of the said stage of the Bill shall be put forthwith and successively, without further debate or amendment.

Bill C-36—Notice of Time AllocationProtection of Communities and Exploited Persons ActGovernment Orders

June 11th, 2014 / 11:40 p.m.
See context

York—Simcoe Ontario

Conservative

Peter Van Loan ConservativeLeader of the Government in the House of Commons

Mr. Speaker, I do regret to advise that an agreement could not be reached under the provisions of Standing Order 78(1) or 78(2) with respect to the second reading stage of Bill C-36, An Act to amend the Criminal Code in response to the Supreme Court of Canada decision in Attorney General of Canada v. Bedford and to make consequential amendments to other Acts.

Under the provisions of Standing Order 78(3), I give notice that a minister of the Crown will propose at the next sitting a motion to allot a specific number of days or hours for the consideration and disposal of proceedings at the said stage.

Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons ActGovernment Orders

June 11th, 2014 / 5:15 p.m.
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NDP

Françoise Boivin NDP Gatineau, QC

Mr. Speaker, I thank the minister for his speech even though I feel that he took quite a bit of liberty with the Supreme Court decision. I am not sure his quotes from the court's decision were altogether complete.

This is a very emotional issue for many people. Some have based their careers on this issue, and many others are much less aware and have not necessarily had the opportunity to do the consultations the minister has done. We have repeatedly asked him to refer this bill to the Supreme Court to be sure no mistakes have been made. I gather from the minister's response to journalists—which was much clearer than his response here in the House—that the answer was no and that he had no intention of doing so.

That being said, if he is not prepared to send his bill to the Supreme Court, seeing as this bill has been the subject of much criticism from coast to coast with the exception of a few Conservative voices, is he prepared to share the legal opinions? As the Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada, he is obligated to ensure that bills before the House comply with the Constitution and the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. If he has those legal opinions, including the survey his department commissioned, can he forward them to us before the committee begins its study? That will give us a chance to consult them before our study.

I would also like him to define the expression “sexual services” because it is used frequently throughout the bill. What does the government mean by “sexual services” in Bill C-36?

Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons ActGovernment Orders

June 11th, 2014 / 4:55 p.m.
See context

Central Nova Nova Scotia

Conservative

Peter MacKay ConservativeMinister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada

moved that Bill C-36, an act to amend the Criminal Code in response to the Supreme Court of Canada decision in Attorney General of Canada v. Bedford and to make consequential amendments to other acts, be read the second time and referred to a committee.

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to commence the second reading debate on Bill C-36, the protection of communities and exploited persons act, a comprehensive and compassionate Canadian response to the Supreme Court decision in Bedford.

It may come as a surprise to some, but to put this in context, in current Canadian law, neither the sale nor the purchase of sexual services is illegal. That would be known to many in the chamber who are police officers or former police officers, many of whom are joining us for this debate.

It is well known to the member for Kildonan—St. Paul, who has dedicated much of her life to helping those who find themselves in prostitution, and I want to express appreciation for that work.

The existing criminal offences prohibit activities related to prostitution. This bill is in direct response to the Supreme Court of Canada's Bedford decision, on December 20, 2013, which found three of the prostitution-related offences unconstitutional, based upon the court's view that the offences prevent those who sell sexual services from taking measures to protect themselves when engaged in prostitution, which I think can fairly be described as a risky, but previously legal, activity.

That would change, as a result of the bill, in terms of its legality. It was a key consideration for the government's response.

The Supreme Court was clear. Its decision does not mean that Parliament is precluded from imposing limits on where and how prostitution may be conducted.

Significantly, the court recognized not only the complexity of the issue but also the ability of the government to legislate. I am quoting from the decision, at paragraph 165, which states:

The regulation of prostitution is a complex and delicate matter. It will be for Parliament, should it choose to do so, to devise a new approach, reflecting the different elements of the existing regime.

Bill C-36 would do just that. It is a brand new approach, one that would transform Canada's criminal provisions of prostitution laws. It is a new approach based upon the prevailing thinking in modern industrialized countries.

Bill C-36 proposes law reform that would signal a significant shift in prostitution-related criminal law policy from treatment of prostitution as a nuisance toward treatment of prostitution for what it is: a form of exploitation.

This is not a life from a Hollywood movie, portrayed in movies like Pretty Woman. It is an inherently dangerous pursuit, often driven by factors such as violence, addiction, poverty, intimidation, and mental illness. These are very often the most marginalized and victimized of our citizens, vulnerable Canadians, often aboriginal, new Canadians, brought into a life of prostitution at a very early age and most often through no fault of their own.

The bill is about protecting vulnerable Canadians, as encapsulated in the title.

Let us be clear: we do not believe that other approaches, such as decriminalization or legalization, could make prostitution a safe activity.

The evidence, including the evidence submitted to the courts in the Bedford case, shows that prostitution is extremely dangerous no matter where it takes place. It also proves that decriminalization and legalization lead to increased human trafficking for the purpose of sexual exploitation. Failing to ensure the consistent application of criminal law to the wrongful acts of prostitution is simply not an option.

The Supreme Court gave Parliament one year to respond to its findings in Bedford. We have introduced Bill C-36 well ahead of time to ensure that the court's ruling does not result in decriminalization, and to have even greater opportunity to examine legislation, and to ensure that even greater harm to vulnerable persons, particularly women and children, does not follow.

For the first time in Canadian criminal law, the bill would criminalize the purchase of sexual services; in other words, it would now make prostitution illegal.

The impact of the new prohibitions would be borne predominantly by those who purchase sex and persons who exploit others through prostitution. The bill is intended to reduce the demands for prostitution, which disproportionately impact on society's most marginalized and vulnerable.

The bill would also modernize existing procuring offences, to ensure that those who exploit others through prostitution are held to account for capitalizing on the demand created by purchasers.

These reforms are informed by new, contemporary legislative measures outlined in the bill's preamble, which include protecting communities and those who are exploited through prostitution from prostitution's implicit harms, which include sexual exploitation, the risk of violence and intimidation, exposure of children to the sale of sex as a commodity, and related criminal activities such as human trafficking and drug-related and organized crime.

Also in the preamble is recognizing the social harm caused by prostitution's normalization of sexual activity as a commodity to be bought and sold; and protecting the human dignity and equality of all by discouraging prostitution, which we know disproportionately impacts women and children.

Bill C-36 proposes two entirely new offences, which I would submit differentiates it from other models as a distinctly Canadian approach: purchasing sexual services and advertising the sale of sexual services. Both are hybrid offences with maximum penalties of 5 years on indictment and 18 months on summary conviction. The purchasing offence would also carry mandatory minimum fines.

The purchasing offence targets the demand for prostitution, thereby making prostitution an illegal activity, and to complement this offence, the advertising offence targets the promotion of this exploitative activity, thereby furthering the legislation's overall objective of reducing the demand for sexual services.

An additional objective is to reduce the likelihood of third parties facilitating exploitation through prostitution for their gain, and the key and operative word here is “exploitation”. Consistent with the bill's treatment of persons who sell their own sexual services as victims, the persons would be immunized from prosecution if they advertised their own sexual services.

Never before have these activities been criminalized in Canadian law, and the bill would also criminalize receiving a financial or material benefit, knowing that it was obtained by or derived from the prostitution of others. This offence replaces the existing offence of living on the avails of prostitution, struck down by the Supreme Court.

The proposed approach has been carefully tailored to address the specific vulnerability of those involved. The material benefit offence strikes a careful balance and ensures that those who sell their own sexual services have the same ability to interact with others as anyone else, while also recognizing the dangers, harms, and risks involved in allowing the development of economic interests in others' prostitution.

Legislated exceptions clarify that the offence does not apply to non-exploitative relationships. For example, those who are in legitimate living arrangements with persons who sell their own sexual services, such as children, spouses, or roommates, would not be caught under these sections. Neither would those who offered goods or services to the general public, such as accountants, taxi drivers, or security companies. Moreover, the material benefit offence would not apply to those who offered goods or services on an informal basis, which could include such things as babysitting or even protective services.

To be clear, Bill C-36 also recognizes the risks associated with allowing persons to benefit from the profits of others' prostitution. A person who initially poses as a benevolent helper may become unscrupulous in order to maximize profits that are contingent on the provision of sexual services for others. We know this happens. For that reason, the bill stipulates that none of the exceptions to the material benefit apply where the person who received the benefit engaged in coercive measures, such as using violence or intimidation, abusing a position of trust or power, or engaging in conduct that amounts to procuring or receiving a benefit in the context of a brothel.

This approach affords some room for sellers of their own sexual services to take steps to protect themselves in response to the concerns raised by Supreme Court of Canada in Bedford, while also ensuring that the criminal law holds to account the pimps or anyone else in an exploitative relationship, working through prostitution.

The bill also proposes to modernize existing procuring and child prostitution offences. The proposed procuring offence reformulates existing offences with respect to procurement—paragraphs 212(1)(a) to (i)—to ensure consistency with the new material benefit and purchasing offences.

Procuring, as we know, is a serious offence that involves inciting or causing others to sell sexual services. That is why this legislation proposes to increase the maximum penalty to 14 years from 10 years imprisonment.

Bill C-36 modernizes and reformulates child prostitution offences as aggravating forms of offences related to the purchase of sexual services, receiving a material benefit and procuring. In addition, it increases the applicable sentences. The maximum penalty for the offence prohibiting the purchase of sexual services from children would increase to 10 years imprisonment from the current five, and the mandatory minimum would increase from six months to one year for repeat offenders.

Offences related to receiving a material benefit and procuring involving children would have a maximum sentence of 40 years and a mandatory minimum of two and five years, respectively.

Moreover, through these amendments, the government would send a clear message to those who exploit vulnerable persons and, in particular, inflict trauma and revictimization on women and children.

All of the offences that I have just described comprehensively address the exploitative conduct engaged in by those who create the demand for sexual services and those who capitalize on that demand.

Bill C-36 does not stop there. It recognizes and addresses the harms that prostitution also causes to communities. It would achieve this objective in two ways. It would impose higher mandatory minimum fines for purchasers if they commit the purchasing offence in public places that are near schools, parks, religious institutions, or places where children can reasonably be expected to be present. This is the same description found in the Criminal Code in other sections. There is an already well subscribed definition of a public place. This approach would also provide an additional measure of protection to those who are vulnerable in our communities.

The bill would also comprehensively protect children from exposure to the sale of sex as a commodity. In that regard, it proposes a new summary offence that would criminalize communicating for the purpose of selling sexual services in public places where children can reasonably be expected to be present.

The bill recognizes the vulnerability of those who sell their own sexual services by immunizing them from prosecution for any part they may play in the purchasing, material benefit, procuring, or advertising offences vis-à-vis their own sexual services.

As I mentioned, children, on balance when doing the calculation, can also be considered vulnerable, so the bill seeks to strike that careful balance, part of that being the provision of a tool that would allow law enforcement to ensure that children are not harmed through exposure to prostitution. Parents in particular will be relieved to hear this.

The bill also proposes related amendments that would complement its approach to prostitution. First, with the definition of a weapon, this part of the Criminal Code has been somewhat overlooked in the public debate on this legislation. This section is intended to ensure that offenders who possess weapons of restraint, such as handcuffs, rope, or duct tape, with the intent to commit an offence, or use such weapons to commit a violent offence, are held accountable. I suspect that much of the focus on this stems from the horrific circumstances that we know occurred in the Picton case in British Columbia.

This amendment has implications for three offences: possession of weapon for dangerous purpose, section 88; assault with a weapon, section 290; and sexual assault with a weapon, section 291. This approach will better protect all of the victims of these offences, including those suffering from extreme exploitation as prostitutes, who are particularly vulnerable to sexual assault and assault.

Bill C-36 would also ensure consistency of penalties between human trafficking offences and the proposed prostitution ones. We know that prostitution and human trafficking are related criminal activities. It follows that the penalties for both should reflect the severity of that conduct. That is why this bill proposes to increase the maximum penalties and impose mandatory minimum penalties for receiving a material benefit from child trafficking and withholding documents for the purposes of committing child trafficking. The maximum penalty for both child-specific trafficking and prostitution material benefit would be 14 years of imprisonment, with a mandatory minimum penalty of two years. The maximum penalty for withholding documents for the purpose of committing child trafficking would increase to 10 years, with a mandatory minimum sentence of a year.

The bill would also amend the offence prohibiting trafficking in persons to impose mandatory minimum penalties when the victim is an adult. The mandatory minimum penalty would be five years if the offences involved kidnapping, aggravated assault, sexual assault, or caused death, and four years in all other cases. The offence prohibiting trafficking of children already includes mandatory minimum penalties.

These are reforms proposed by this bill, but why are they necessary? In particular, what do we know about prostitution in the country today?

Although the incidence of prostitution is impossible to truly ascertain, given its clandestine nature, we know from research that prostitution occurs in all parts of the country, most often on the street but also through escort agencies, in massage parlours, in private apartments and houses, and in strip clubs, hotels, and restaurants. It is facilitated through the Internet and print media advertising.

We know that 75% to 80% of those involved in prostitution are women. As I mentioned earlier, many come from the most marginalized groups of society and share common vulnerabilities, such as childhood abuse, neglect, poverty, and addictions, and they lack the education and skills necessary to exit prostitution.

Research indicates as well that a large number of those who provide sexual services entered prostitution when they were mere children, and that they experienced sexual abuse prior to their first prostitution experience. Furthermore, aboriginal women and girls are disproportionately represented among those who are exploited through prostitution.

There is simply no getting away from the fact that prostitution is an extremely dangerous activity. Studies before the courts in the Bedford case have shown that prostitution is multi-traumatic. It regularly involves physical violence, sexual violence, forceable confinement, and drugs, and involvement in prostitution often causes post-traumatic stress disorder, which can result in permanent harm.

Communities are also negatively affected by all forms of prostitution. Used condoms and drug paraphernalia may be discarded in public places, such as parks, playgrounds, or school grounds. Other community harms may include noise, impeding traffic, children witnessing acts of prostitution, harassment of residents, unsanitary acts, and unwelcome solicitation of children by johns.

Prostitution also poses other risks because of its link with human trafficking, as mentioned, which is another form of sexual exploitation, as well as its link to drug-related crimes and organized criminal groups that thrive in that environment. Two recent international studies indicate that there is cause for concern in these areas. These studies show that jurisdictions that have decriminalized prostitution have often experienced increases in human trafficking and further violence, which is unacceptable.

The risks and harms associated with prostitution are readily acknowledged. However, the issue of which legal framework should govern adult prostitution remains highly contentious. The results of the government's extensive public consultations indicate and demonstrate that Canadians are still divided on this issue, but overall the results show that the majority of Canadians consulted prefer a criminal law response, one that involves the criminalization of purchasers of sexual services and of those who exploit prostitution for their own gain.

In addition to the legally oriented response through this legislation, we have also, in a compassionate and Canadian way, brought forward additional resources to partner with provinces and organizations throughout the country that provide front-line services to help prostitutes to exit from prostitution by giving them choices and alternatives that would allow them to leave this exploitative field and find a better life.

Noting the time, I urge all members to support this important piece of legislation. There will be ample time to examine it at committee. There will be an opportunity to hear from Canadians further on this important matter. The objective here is clearly to protect the vulnerable, to protect our communities, and to move, for the sake of all those involved, to a better place and a better life.

JusticeOral Questions

June 9th, 2014 / 2:20 p.m.
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Mississauga—Erindale Ontario

Conservative

Bob Dechert ConservativeParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Justice

Mr. Speaker, Bill C-36, like all legislation, is reviewed by Department of Justice officials in terms of its constitutionality. The bill certainly does meet the requirements of the Constitution and the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. Members will have an opportunity to debate the bill in the House later this week and later at the justice committee. It will become apparent to them that the bill addresses all of the issues raised by the Supreme Court and provides for those involved in sex work to do it safely.

JusticeOral Questions

June 9th, 2014 / 2:20 p.m.
See context

Mississauga—Erindale Ontario

Conservative

Bob Dechert ConservativeParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Justice

Mr. Speaker, as the member knows, Bill C-36 is our government's response to the Bedford decision. In our view, it meets every test of the Supreme Court decision and will be upheld by the Supreme Court in accordance with Bedford. It is the role of the government to propose legislation, and it is the job of all parliamentarians to debate that legislation. We are looking forward to the debate here in Parliament later this week.

JusticeOral Questions

June 9th, 2014 / 2:20 p.m.
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NDP

Françoise Boivin NDP Gatineau, QC

Mr. Speaker, it is the minister's job to make sure that the laws that he files in the House are charter compliant and constitutional.

The Supreme Court was clear in its unanimous ruling. The prostitution laws are unconstitutional because they endanger the safety and lives of those who are in this line of work.

The government's response must respect the Charter and the court's decision. Many experts have raised serious concerns about the constitutionality of Bill C-36.

If the minister thinks that his law will stand up in court, why does he not make his legal opinions public?

Instruction to the Standing Committee on the Status of Women (violence against women)Private Members' Business

June 6th, 2014 / 1:45 p.m.
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NDP

Niki Ashton NDP Churchill, MB

Mr. Speaker, women have the right to full equality and women have the right to live their lives free of violence. These two principles are inseparable because with the threat of violence there can be no substantive equality. The government can and must do more to support women's equality, especially when it comes to addressing violence against women. It is everyone's responsibility to reduce violence, but it is the particular responsibility of parliamentarians to take substantive action in this direction.

Motion No. 504 is well intentioned, however, when one realizes how widespread violence against women is in Canada, we feel it does not go far enough. Half of all women in Canada have experienced at least one incident of physical or sexual violence since the age of 16 and this number has remained stagnant over the past 40 years.

In first nations, the statistics are worse. Women are much more vulnerable with homicide rates seven times higher than that of non-aboriginal Canadian women. In the recent reports by the RCMP, there are nearly 1,200 cases of missing or murdered indigenous women in Canada.

Both Amnesty International and the United Nations have called upon the Canadian government to take action on this issue without success. Women in countless organizations across Canada have called upon the government to take action.

The Conservative government has claimed to have taken real action to combat violence against women, yet it has refused to develop a national action plan. In fact, in 2006, the government changed the Status of Women Canada women's program, making it impossible for Status of Women Canada to fund the work of organizations when it relates to advocacy, lobbying, or general research on women's rights issues. The UN Committee on the Elimination of Discrimination Against Women has expressed concern on the impact of changes to the Status of Women agency, in particular on access to services by aboriginal and rural women.

The minister who changed the women's program mandate at the time, Bev Oda, said, “"We don't need to separate the men from the women in this country. This government as a whole is responsible to develop policies and programs that address the needs of both men and women."

First and foremost, the government must recognize that gender inequality is the root cause of violence against women. We know that women are 11 times more likely than men to be a target of sexual offences and three times more likely to experience criminal harassment. With these facts in mind and with the prevalence of violence against women stagnant in Canada while all other violent crime rates drop, does the government still believe that we do not need to work toward meeting the needs of women in this country?

As parliamentarians, we have the ability to enact a national action plan that would address the severity of violence against women, yet the government has taken no action in this direction despite the recommendations numerous organizations have made. In the absence of a national action plan, responses to violence against women, including education and prevention programs, are fragmented and inconsistent.

In order to fully address the root causes of violence against women, I urge the government to immediately pick up Motion No. 444 and consult with civil society in order to create a multi-sector national action plan. With Canada in the international spotlight, we must respond. We call upon the government to immediately commit to funding legal aid, shelters, transitions houses, social housing, health services, advocacy, and research in order to prevent and treat violence against women for all women in Canada.

In regard to Motion No. 504, I urge the government to make the necessary provisions that would allow for the issues associated with violence against all women to be addressed. First, we ask the study to include the examination of programs as well as policy. Second, we ask that the study look at best practices in Canada and abroad. Other countries like Canada, such as Australia, have taken strident steps toward a national action plan and their methods are working. We should take this opportunity to learn from them.

There is near consensus among Canadian civil society and violence against women service providers that a national action plan is urgently needed. Indeed, the Canadian Network of Women's Shelters and Transition Houses is spearheading meetings to discuss the creation of such an action plan. However, civil society, women's advocates, and service providers cannot accomplish this task alone. The federal government must be a leader at the table. It is incumbent upon the House to listen to what experts and front-line workers are telling us. Right now they are saying the same thing: we need a national action plan.

The Canadian Network of Women’s Shelters and Transition Houses wrote in its report:

It is clear that in the absence of a National Action Plan, responses to VAW in Canada are largely fragmented, often inaccessible, and can work to impede rather than improve women’s safety....A strategic and sustainable step toward meaningfully addressing VAW in Canada is to establish a multi-sectoral NAP that adheres to the guidelines and principles set out by the UN Handbook for Legislation on Violence Against Women...and the UN Handbook for National Action Plans on Violence Against Women...

The fact is we can study component pieces of the solution to violence against women and it will only be a drop in the bucket of the work that must be done, right now, to end violence in women's lives. Education and prevention are critical, but we must move beyond that.

A national action plan would be coordinated with governments across the country. It would set out a framework to be followed over the course of many years. It would uphold Canada's commitments to the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination against Women as well as the Beijing Declaration and Platform for Action. It would be based in evidence, new research and extensive consultation with experts and communities. The plan would include evaluation and accountability measures for government and civil society alike.

With all of this working together, it will have a real effect on women’s lives and the lives of all of those who depend on the well-being of women in our society.

We have international examples of national action plans. Belize, Liberia, Peru, France, Australia, Spain and many more have comprehensive and coherent programs of activity.

I have spent the past year travelling to different parts of the country in order to hold consultation sessions with the people in Canada who are at the front lines of fighting violence against women. I sat down with the directors of emergency shelters, transition houses and drop-in centres. I listened to lawyers, advocates and social workers. I heard the concerns of sexual assault service providers and rape crisis line workers. I met with women who were survivors of violence themselves. Across the board we heard the same thing: the government does not provide enough funding or support to even come close to ending violence against women.

I cannot name or quote these individuals, for fear that the government may slash what little funding their organizations are receiving, but I will paraphrase some of the messages we heard.

Service providers are subsidizing the government with unpaid hours of labour. Two people work for one person's salary in order to provide desperate women with the bare minimum of what they need to exit violence. One of the organizations said, “We tell women that it is possible to leave a violent relationship and start her life again, but the reality is that without sufficient housing, legal aid and welfare that simply is not true”.

I heard from others that, “Repeated cuts to this sector have devastated our capacity to work together as a community to provide the best services”, and “We cannot advocate for women to the government when we are barely able to keep our doors open”.

We heard again and again about how frustrating and insufficient the Status of Women Agency was since the Prime Minister made those substantive changes to its granting system. Short term, two year grants ensure that best practices will necessarily end with no hope of renewal. It means that service providers are in constant grant-writing mode instead of working to help women. The fact that organizations are explicitly forbidden from applying for advocacy and research means that all their work is short-sighted and never allowed to address the major systemic barriers.

Perhaps most telling is that for a time, the government took the word “equality” out of the Status of Women's mandate. The absence of that one word speaks volumes about the regressive attitude the government has taken toward women.

I also want to point to the most recent bill, Bill C-36, which aims to save prostitutes. We in the NDP have expressed our high concern that this new legislation places sex workers in danger and we believe it does not uphold women's charter rights.

For a government that constantly claims to be standing up for victims, it refuses to give vulnerable people what they need to achieve equality. Therein lies the fundamental difference between the NDP and the Conservative approach to women. The government paints women as victims who are in need of protection, but we know women must be empowered to claim their full rights. Women in Canada deserve better. We deserve commitment and leadership from the government to end violence against women.

In conclusion, I move, seconded by the member for LaSalle—Émard:

That the motion be amended by replacing the words “education and social programs” with the words “education programs, social programs, and policies”.

JusticeOral Questions

June 6th, 2014 / 11:15 a.m.
See context

NDP

Nycole Turmel NDP Hull—Aylmer, QC

Mr. Speaker, several analysts have concluded that Bill C-36 does not do an adequate job of protecting prostitutes as required by the Supreme Court in Bedford. A number of experts and sex workers believe that Bill C-36 will force prostitution further underground and expose people to more violence.

Will the government disclose the legal opinions it received and refer its bill to the Supreme Court as quickly as possible to ensure that it is charter compliant and in line with the Bedford ruling?

Business of the HouseOral Questions

June 5th, 2014 / 3:10 p.m.
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York—Simcoe Ontario

Conservative

Peter Van Loan ConservativeLeader of the Government in the House of Commons

Mr. Speaker, I will start with the concept of the very strange proposition put forward by my friend. He uses this concept of shifts and believes there is some perverse obligation on the part of the government that, if the opposition wishes to filibuster the production of new laws and delay their production, we somehow have an obligation to match them step for step in extending that process. His comparison is with ordinary Canadians. He said that ordinary Canadians should not produce a product at the end of the day at work; they should take two, three, or four days to get the same thing made. That is his idea of getting things done. That is his idea of how ordinary Canadians can work. I think that says something about the culture of the NDP and the hon. member. I will let members guess what culture that is. It is a culture that does say we should take two or three times longer to get something done or to get to our destination than we possibly can.

We on this side are happy to make decisions to get things done for Canadians. In fact, that is exactly what we have been doing. Since I last rose in response to a Thursday question, the House has accomplished a lot, thanks to our government's plan to work a little overtime this spring.

I know the House leader of the official opposition boasts that the New Democrats are happy to work hard, but let us take a look at what his party's deputy leader had to say on CTV last night. The hon. member for Halifax was asked why the NDP agreed to work until midnight. She confessed, “We didn't agree to do it.” She then lamented, “We are going from topic to topic. We are doing votes. We are at committees. They are really intense days. We're sitting until midnight.”

On that part, I could not agree more with the deputy leader of the NDP, believe it or not, but with much more cheer in my voice when I say those words, because we think it is a good thing. These are intense days. We are actually getting things done. We are actually voting on things. We are actually getting things through committee. For once, we are going from topic to topic in the run of the day.

Let me review for the House just how many topics, votes, and committee accomplishments we have addressed since the government asked the House to roll up its sleeves.

Bill C-24, the strengthening Canadian citizenship act, was passed at second reading and has even been reported back from the citizenship committee.

Bill C-10, the tackling contraband tobacco act, was concurred in at report stage and later passed at third reading.

Bill C-31, the economic action plan 2014 act, no. 1, was reported back from the finance committee.

Bill C-27, the veterans hiring act, was passed at second reading.

Bill C-20, the Canada-Honduras economic growth and prosperity act, was concurred in at report stage.

On the private members' business front we saw:

Bill C-555, from the hon. members for West Nova in support of the seal hunt, was passed at second reading.

Bill C-483, from my hon. colleague, the member for Oxford, cracking down on prisoners' escorted temporary absences was passed at third reading.

Bill C-479, from the hon. member for Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, on improving the place of victims in our justice system was passed at third reading last night.

Progress is not limited to Conservative initiatives. The Green Party leader's Bill C-442, respecting a Lyme disease strategy, was reported back from committee yesterday.

The hon. member for Timmins—James Bay saw a motion on palliative care pass.

We have also seen countless reports from committees reviewing the government's spending plans, as well as topics of importance to those committees.

This morning we even ratified the appointment of an officer of Parliament.

Finally, I do want to reflect on the accomplishment of Bill C-17, the protecting Canadians from unsafe drugs act (Vanessa's law), which members may recall me discussing in last week's Thursday statement. It finally passed at second reading. However, this did not happen until the NDP relented and changed its tune to allow the bill to go to committee. It was the first time ever that we had an expression from the New Democrats when we gave notice of intention to allocate time in which they said, “We don't need that time; we're actually prepared to allow a bill to advance to the next stage”. I think, by reflecting on the fact that those dozens of other times the NDP did not take that step, we could understand that they did not want to see a bill advance; they did not want to see progress made. That lets Canadians understand quite clearly why it is we need to use scheduling and time allocation as a device to get things done in the face of a group that thinks the objective is to fill up all possible time available with words rather than actual votes and getting things done.

It is clear that our approach is working. We are getting things done in the House of Commons and delivering results for Canadians.

Perhaps I might be overly inspired by the example of Vanessa’s Law, but I do want to draw the attention of the House to Bill C-32, the Victims Bill of Rights Act.

So far, we have seen three days of debate on second reading of the bill, but “debate” is actually not accurate. What we have witnessed is speech, after speech, after speech—most of them from New Democrats—offering platitudes of support for the idea of getting that bill to a committee where it could be studied. What I want to know is, why will they not just let it happen? Victims of crime want to see meaningful action, not just kind words.

Suffice it to say that I will need to schedule additional time for discussion of this bill. Perhaps the NDP will let it pass after a fourth day of talk.

This afternoon, we will continue with the report stage debate on Bill C-31, our budget implementation bill. When that concludes, we will turn to Bill C-20, to implement our free trade agreement with Honduras, at third reading. If time permits, we will continue the third reading debate on Bill C-3, the Safeguarding Canada's Seas and Skies Act.

Tomorrow morning, we will start the report stage debate on Bill C-24, which makes the first modernization of the Citizenship Act in 35 years. After question period, I will call Bill C-32, the Victims Bill of Rights Act, to see if the NDP is ready to deliver results, not talk.

Monday morning, we will continue the third reading debate on Bill C-20, if more time is needed, and then resume the second reading debate on Bill C-18, the Agricultural Growth Act. After question period, we will get back to the Strengthening Canadian Citizenship Act.

Tuesday shall be the eighth allotted day when the NDP will have a chance to talk, and talk, about a topic of their own choosing. At the end of the night, we will have a number of important votes on approving the funds required for government programs and services and pass two bills to that end.

On Wednesday, we will debate our budget bill at third reading, and then we will start the second reading debate on Bill C-36, the Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons Act, which my seatmate, the Minister of Justice, tabled yesterday.

We will continue the debates on Bill C-36 and Bill C-24, if extra time is needed, on Thursday. After those have finished, and on Friday, we will resume the uncompleted debates on Bill C-3, the Safeguarding Canada's Seas and Skies Act, at third reading; Bill C-6, the Prohibiting Cluster Munitions Act, at report stage; Bill C-8, the Combating Counterfeit Products Act, at third reading; Bill C-18, the Agricultural Growth Act, at second reading; Bill C-26, the Tougher Penalties for Child Predators Act, at second reading; Bill C-32, the Victims Bill of Rights Act, at second reading; and Bill C-35, the Justice for Animals in Service Act (Quanto's Law), at second reading.

To make a long story short, we have accomplished much in the House over the last week, but we still have much left to do, which inspires me to note that in the week ahead I have to take my automobile in for maintenance. At that time, when I take it to the dealership, I hope one person will work on it for an hour, get the job done, and then return it to me at a reasonable cost. I do hope I am not told, “There are still many more employees who have not had a chance to have a shift working on your car as well, so we are going to keep it here another three days and give everybody a turn to work on your car.” I hope the dealership will do as Conservatives do: get the job done and then deliver me the product.

JusticeOral Questions

June 5th, 2014 / 2:25 p.m.
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NDP

Françoise Boivin NDP Gatineau, QC

Mr. Speaker, I am looking forward to reading the scientific survey the minister still has in his possession and is avoiding to give to everybody.

Six months ago, the Supreme Court forced the government to review the legislation concerning prostitution in order to better protect the lives and safety of sex trade workers. Several of the provisions run counter to this objective and even seem to contravene the Supreme Court ruling. We are afraid that Bill C-36 will push prostitution further into the shadows, drive it underground and make it more violent.

Will the government refer its bill to the Supreme Court as quickly as possible to ensure that it complies with the charter and the Bedford ruling?

JusticeOral Questions

June 5th, 2014 / 2:20 p.m.
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NDP

Françoise Boivin NDP Gatineau, QC

Yes, Mr. Speaker, $20 million, a drop in the bucket, not even budgeted yet.

We cannot trust the Conservatives to protect women's rights. This issue is at the heart of the debate and the Supreme Court ruling in Bedford. With Bill C-36, pimps and prostitutes will be criminalized, but not drivers. Soliciting will be prohibited on the streets, but not on private premises. Private advertising will be allowed, but not public advertising. There is a very fine line, and the balance is precarious.

Will the government make public the legal opinions it received before introducing Bill C-36?

Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons ActRoutine Proceedings

June 4th, 2014 / 4 p.m.
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Central Nova Nova Scotia

Conservative