Bill C-311 (Historical)

An Act to amend the Holidays Act (Remembrance Day)

This enactment amends the Holidays Act to make Remembrance Day a legal holiday.‍

Holidays Act

[Colin Fraser, Liberal, West Nova, NS]

moved that Bill C-311, An Act to amend the Holidays Act (Remembrance Day), be read the third time and passed.

Madam Speaker, it is certainly a pleasure to rise in the House this evening to speak to my private member's bill, Bill C-311, an act to amend the Holidays Act with respect to Remembrance Day.

I want to sincerely thank the Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage for examining my bill, listening to witnesses, and making changes to the bill that I completely agree with. In fact, at second reading, I had mentioned that I would be suggesting those changes to the committee, and those changes were recommended by the committee.

My bill changes the wording and status of Remembrance Day in the Holidays Act by making it a legal holiday, like Canada Day and Victoria Day. It is intended that this amendment will correct the Holidays Act that currently has different language regarding Remembrance Day than the language used for Canada Day and Victoria Day.

I believe it is important to fix this inconsistency and properly recognize Remembrance Day in our federal legislation as a federal legal holiday. More than simply correcting this inconsistency, however, I believe it is important that we continually examine how we are remembering the sacrifice of our fallen heroes and honouring the service of past and present Canadian Forces members.

I hope my bill will also have the added ability of affirming Parliament's commitment to this important solemn day of remembrance right across Canada. It is important to ensure that we shine a bright light on Remembrance Day and remembrance-type services at any opportunity we get.

Last month, I had the honour to attend the Vimy 100 commemoration in France as part of the Canadian delegation. It was an amazing experience to share with veterans and youth, as well as other fellow parliamentarians who were with the delegation.

We toured battlefield sites and cemeteries to remember our fallen. The interaction between the youth and the veterans was an amazing thing. There were two youth from each province and territory in Canada. It was wonderful to experience how they worked together to honour the sacrifice of our brave soldiers who fell in duty in World World I at Vimy, but also how they were able to share stories and engage in conversation with veterans who were on the trip and also, in many cases, family members of those who had fought at Vimy Ridge. I think it is important to celebrate at every opportunity, to make sure that our history is remembered for generations to come.

One of the interesting veterans on the trip was Ed Peck. I had an opportunity to speak to Ed on a couple of occasions during the trip. He is from British Columbia. He is a veteran of the Second World War, and participated in the liberation of Holland. He told me about his father, whose name was Cy Peck, who was actually a sitting member of Parliament during World War I and fought at the Battle of Vimy Ridge.

This amazing connection between generations and between people who serve in this place, as Mr. Peck did, is an incredible testimony to the dedication in service to our country. Mr. Cy Peck was the only sitting member of Parliament to ever win the Victoria Cross at the Battle of Amiens, I believe, in 1918. It is an amazing story which, upon reflection, ties very well into what my bill is attempting to do in elevating the status of remembrance in our country, and ensuring that our history is remembered for generations.

The ceremony on April 9 at Vimy was also an incredible opportunity as a collective experience for young people and veterans alike to share with all Canadians. There were more than 25,000 Canadians, many of them youth, from across our country who were able to attend that ceremony. Many of them had fundraised on their own in order to participate. This is a wonderful symbol for many years to come, a remembrance of sacrifice by our veterans, that will be in good hands.

Whenever we as Canadians have an opportunity to raise the profile of Remembrance Day and shine a light on its significance for our country, I believe it is worthwhile.

The bill was sent to the Canadian heritage committee, which oversees the Holidays Act. There were a number of proponents who spoke in favour of the bill. Some of them had the opportunity to explain why they thought it was important to insert the word “legal” into the context of the Holidays Act.

Mr. Dave Geddes, upon being asked what he thought adding the term “legal” to the term “holiday” would mean, said:

First, I think it would show our veterans that the government really does care. I understand that you people do, but to do this on our 150th birthday, for the veterans.... I think you would get 100% support from them.

Mr. John FitzGerald from Newfoundland and Labrador said:

I agree. Yes, I think changing would help. It gives it prominence. It gives it an importance and a weight—or I can use the word “gravitas”—that it deserves, and that our history and our duty to remember and honour our veterans and those who put themselves in harm's way even today in our Canadian Forces deserve.

That's my short answer.

Also appearing was Wilma McNeill, who has been a champion of modifying or making language consistent in the Holidays Act for many years. She is a strong supporter in favour of the bill. She said:

Yes, I agree that putting it up in the status with Canada Day and Victoria Day will help. Maybe it will wake up some of the provinces and they'll come on board. I think it's very important that we have it, and then it will be there forever. It won't be taken away.

This is the time to do it, as everybody is making celebrations for the 150th anniversary of the birth of Canada. Wouldn't this be a great way to honour our veterans once and for all for the sacrifice? When we think of what they did for us.... We live in a democracy, free, and we can do whatever we want, and it's because of the veterans.

Those were some of the testimonies given at committee in support of the bill.

Comments were made by a representative of the Royal Canadian Legion Dominion Command as well. We talked about this at second reading, the fact that it had not supported the idea behind making it a statutory holiday in all jurisdictions. It was certainly saying that to the committee. However, the main point it raised was twofold. First, schoolchildren should be in school on November 11 to ensure they were learning about Remembrance Day. Second, if it were made a day off for everyone, people would treat November 11 as just another day off.

I have the utmost respect for the Royal Canadian Legion, and I have canvassed this issue with many legion members at the legions in my riding and across Canada. Many of them, and all of them in my riding in particular, support the bill.

The Royal Canadian Legion Dominion Command put forward those two reasons for not supporting my bill. I believe it is in error. The bill has nothing to do with giving people the day off work or school. It cannot do that. It is not within the purview of Parliament to pronounce or legislate on such things. That is up to the provinces. The bill does not and cannot encroach on the jurisdiction of the provinces. Therefore, it is a moot point.

However, if we take the arguments themselves on their merits in any event, in jurisdictions where it is a day off for schoolchildren, it works very well. In Nova Scotia, in Veterans Week and leading up to November 11, many veterans are able to come into the schools to participate with schoolchildren and explain to them why remembrance is so important. The children then have the opportunity on November 11 to attend a cenotaph with family and with veterans and share in that collective experience, as I mentioned before when I saw the students and veterans participate in at Vimy on April 9.

Becoming just another day off is another argument used for people getting the time off work. Again, this has no ability to do that and it has nothing to do with it. That is completely up to the provinces. This is simply modifying language in the federal act to make it consistent with other days.

We see increasing numbers at Remembrance Days services across Canada, most particularly in Nova Scotia. Because of the Remembrance Day act in that province, they have the ability to attend those services.

Therefore, I would respond that the possibility people would take it for granted and just treat it as another day off is incorrect. I believe that year after year people are showing more reverence, and more importance and emphasis is being placed on Remembrance Day. The more we can use education and ensure that children are being taught why Remembrance Day is so important, the better off our country will be. This is a valued and important day of reflection for many Canadians. I think that because of increasing attendance, especially in jurisdictions where people do have the day off work, that is not a proper argument for not supporting this bill, especially since it does not do what is claimed it would do, which is to give people the day off in any event.

The other aspect of this bill that I would like to highlight is that at committee I was asked by some members who did not support the bill at committee stage why this was not simply brought as a motion rather than a bill if all it is to do is elevate the status and shine a light on it. The reason is quite simple. In addition to shining a light on this important day, and ensuring that Canadians know that Parliament is affirming its commitment to honouring and commemorating this important day of November 11, it actually does something tangible. It fixes an inconsistency which may well have been a drafting error made many years ago in the Holidays Act by leaving out the word “legal”. The word “legal” holiday is there for Canada Day and Victoria Day. I would submit that it should be there for Remembrance Day as well.

In conclusion, I believe this bill is well reasoned and is a modest bill in what it actually does. It adds consistency of language in the Holidays Act. It elevates Remembrance Day to the same status as Canada Day and Victoria Day in federal statute, and it does affirm Parliament's commitment to ensuring that this very important day of reflection and gratitude to our fallen and all of those who serve is given its due respect. Therefore, I would ask all of my hon. colleagues to support my bill, Bill C-311, and ensure its passage.

[Colin Fraser, Liberal, West Nova, NS]

moved that Bill C-311, An Act to amend the Holidays Act (Remembrance Day), as amended, be concurred in at report stage.

The House proceeded to the consideration of Bill C-311, An Act to amend the Holidays Act (Remembrance Day), as reported (with amendments) from the committee.

Canadian Heritage

[Hedy Fry, Liberal, Vancouver Centre, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I have the honour to present, in both official languages, the fourth report of the Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage in relation to Bill C-311, An Act to amend the Holidays Act (Remembrance Day).

The committee has studied the bill and has decided to report the bill back to the House with amendments.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Larry Maguire]

Mr. Samson calls for a recorded vote.

(Bill C-311 agreed to: yeas 6; nays 2)

The bill as amended has carried.

Shall the chair report the bill as amended to the House?

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I thank the honourable member, Mr. Fraser, for bringing this bill forward.

It's a difficult piece of legislation to deal with, because obviously we're dealing with the issue of Remembrance Day. As we heard throughout the testimony, there's not one of us on this committee who doesn't feel the highest level of respect for the work our veterans have done. We told stories of the experiences of our families and veterans: my grandfather was a merchant mariner, and my wife's uncle Jack was killed flying a Lancaster bomber over Poland. I know from my standpoint, being a representative who's close to CFB Borden and having a terrific relationship with the base and all those who serve our military, I have the utmost respect for our veterans. I'm also the critic for Veterans Affairs, which is why I'm sitting through this process of dealing with Bill C-311.

I've talked to veterans across the country and I was active in Remembrance Day ceremonies. One of the most compelling parts of what we heard over the course of the last several weeks in dealing with this bill was when we had Dominion Command come in here. Dominion Command, as we heard from Mr. White, represents about 275,000 members across the country. The testimony we heard from Mr. White suggested that they are not in support of Bill C-311.

When I spoke to Mr. Fraser initially about this bill, I told him that we would support it coming to committee so that we would hear what Dominion Command had to say with respect to the piece of legislation. I think Dominion Command, through Mr. White on behalf of the 275,000 members, spoke very clearly and succinctly of the fact that they're not supportive of this bill.

In contrast to that, respectfully, I think we had three or four people who came to the committee and said they were supportive of this bill. I respect their position. They talked about elevating the status of Remembrance Day to a legal holiday—certainly not a statutory holiday, but as we've heard, it has no legal effect. With all due respect to Mr. Fraser, and I think he testified to this as well, it was a feel-good bill.

When we pass pieces of legislation in the House of Commons, we don't do so because they feel good; we do so because they support the intent to make the lives of Canadians better. Understandably, there can be an argument that this will help elevate the status of Remembrance Day, but as we heard from Mr. White and from others, and as I can tell you anecdotally from being as involved in Remembrance Day week as I was, the status of Remembrance Day continues to grow in this country. We're seeing a significant number of Canadians participate in the remembrance of those who gave their lives in sacrifice for the freedoms that we enjoy, and as I said when we were dealing with this bill in committee, there's not a day that goes by that I, or any of us who have the privilege of sitting in the House of Commons, don't realize that those sacrifices were real, that blood was spilt, that families were torn apart to allow us the privilege of sitting in our symbol of democracy, the House of Commons.

As nice as it would be to feel good about Remembrance Day, I just don't think this piece of legislation, because it actually makes no difference, is something that we can support. As I mentioned, and as I think Mr. Waugh mentioned to Mr. Fraser, if the intent was to emphasize the importance of Remembrance Day to Canadians, we could have easily done that through a motion. We didn't necessarily need a piece of legislation to do that.

The other testimony we heard from Mr. White is the unequivocal fact that Dominion Command doesn't want this to be a statutory holiday. In fact, over the course of the last 45 years, they've dealt with this issue 15 times by way of resolution at their conventions.

I asked Mr. White for the latest resolution, which came from the 2016 convention. The subject and the briefing note to the delegates were clearly about Remembrance Day being a statutory holiday. There were several “whereas” clauses. It said in the “be it resolved” paragraph that the Legion “reconsider its position through respect for its veteran minority; hold a referendum forthwith of its Life and Ordinary members who are veterans; since the Dominion Convention has failed to act in the best interest....”

It was a resolution submitted by the Quebec Command. The resolution was non-concurred by the committee; it wasn't supported. The comments, which I'll read so they go into the record here, Mr. Chair, if you'll indulge me, are:

The holiday status of Remembrance Day has been debated at numerous Dominion Conventions throughout the Legion's history, most recently at our 2012 Dominion Convention. It was at the 2012 Convention that the Legion's position against Remembrance Day being a statutory holiday was reaffirmed.

Now, before the argument comes back to say this wasn't a legal holiday, if you recall, Mr. White's testimony said that he was concerned that this was going to open the door for statutory holidays, and frankly, that's my concern.

There were many reasons he gave, not the least of which was that schools across the country participate. Many of them that don't currently observe it as a statutory holiday participate in Remembrance Day. They've seen a growth in Remembrance Day activity and involvement, and they want that to continue. They don't want people to have a holiday, and their concern, frankly, is the fact that this bill might lead to that.

They also said in their comments:

We remain concerned that Canadians, if given the time off as a legal holiday, may not take the time to remember; that it may simply become a mid-week or just part of another long weekend. The latter situation relates specifically to discussion at the 1978 Dominion Convention which focused on how government departments of the day treated November 11th as a floating holiday for the purpose of giving their employees a long weekend. This must not be allowed to happen again. What is needed is to raise the awareness and understanding of Remembrance Day

—which Mr. White spoke about when he appeared before us—

which could be achieved through an education strategy. It is paramount that the significance of Remembrance Day be instilled in our youth and to the general population to show their respect for the sacrifices of our Fallen. To honour this day, many schools hold assemblies where they organize their own commemoration; some teachers take their students to collectively participate with their peers in ceremonies at local cenotaphs, thereby strengthening the impact of the significance of November 11th. The Legion works very closely with schools throughout the country to provide an educational component about Remembrance Day. In addition to welcoming classes at ceremonies, the Legion's Teaching Guide is another excellent educational tool, which has been viewed or downloaded from our website more than one million times. Therefore, this resolution is non-concurred by the Committee.

That was at their recent convention in 2016.

Since our last meeting, I have been in touch with Dominion Command. I asked if there was some way to go forward if we introduced a notwithstanding clause to clarify the intent of clause 1—and the intent, as far as I'm concerned, is not to have a statutory holiday—to make it very clear so that it addresses the concerns of Dominion Command and doesn't open that door, as they fear, to Remembrance Day becoming a statutory holiday, and they were not in a position to support that.

From my standpoint, Mr. Chair, I made attempts to make this work, but I have to respect, and I think we all have to respect, that as much as it feels good to support this bill and as much as the argument will be made to elevate it to legal status, which means nothing in terms of the Holidays Act, it's a feel-good piece of legislation.

My preference would have been that this be a motion and not a piece of legislation, because it means nothing. We're not in the business—some would argue that perhaps we are—of enacting legislation that means nothing and has no cause and no effect. I have to respect, and I hope colleagues will respect—and I don't mean any disrespect to Mr. Fraser, for I completely understand the intent of his bill—the voice of an organization, Dominion Command, that represents 275,000 members, not two or three or four.

Last week, Mr. Chair, I was down in Washington, D.C., and I was privileged to meet with the commander-in-chief of the Veterans of Foreign Wars, with 1.2 million members. I was also privileged to meet with the commander-in-chief of the American Legion, with 2.4 million members. They speak on behalf of veterans. They're the voice of veterans in Washington, and they're a very powerful voice.

In Canada, it's Dominion Command. We have to respect the wishes of Dominion Command. If they're not supportive of this piece of legislation, it doesn't diminish Remembrance Day in any way. In fact, it is Dominion Command that leads Remembrance Day ceremonies and has seen it grow. We have to respect their position on this, and their position is not to support clause 1 to raise this to a legal holiday, for the reasons that I stated.

Out of respect for Dominion Command, we cannot support Bill C-311, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you for your time.

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Thank you.

I would like to make an amendment that Bill C-311 be amended in clause 1 by deleting lines 11 to 16 on page 1.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Larry Maguire]

I call the meeting to order.

Thank you, everyone, for taking your seats.

I want to welcome our witnesses, Mr. Ruest and Mr. Girouard. They're here for technical help with the clause-by-clause study on Bill C-311, which we'll be dealing with today.

I first want to welcome everyone to meeting 49 of the Standing Committee of Canadian Heritage this afternoon in room 253-D in Centre Block.

We'll move right into Bill C-311, an act to amend the Holidays Act for Remembrance Day.

We'll proceed to clause-by-clause study.

I will seek if clause 1 should carry.

[Dave Geddes]

Yes, I will. Thank you very much.

My feeling is this. As I mentioned before, the legion's Dominion Convention is only held every second year, because it's on the even years. There are many things that come to the floor year after year, but they're not put to the membership in a manner that they fully understand, because, as you well know, when you get 1,500 or 2,000 people in a room and you bring a motion for them to vote on and it's not very clear, some go one way and some go the other.

I do know that some of the same motions have come back year after year, but worded in a manner that people fully understand, which may not have been done in the first place. I think there would be no problem on this Bill C-311. It would pass if it were explained to them in the manner in which it is printed today.

[John FitzGerald, Professor, As an Individual]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

Indeed, I am wearing a forget-me-not. Perhaps I can speak about that after my comments, if one of your members of Parliament would wish to ask me a question.

Thank you for your kind invitation to speak.

First I would like to make a brief comment about the bill in general; then I would like to speak about the language of the bill for a moment, and third, I would like to speak about some of the general understandings that I and my fellow Canadians here in Newfoundland and Labrador share as a society about the importance of honouring and remembering the sacrifices that are made for our country

First I would say that of course I agree very strongly with and support the idea of standardizing and in fact mandating across Canada the observance of Remembrance Day. It makes, I believe, a great deal of sense. It recognizes and honours the sacrifice, the commitment, and the history of those who have sacrificed for us, and it would indeed be a wonderful legacy to have done this in the year of Canada's 150th birthday.

Second, as a historian who has generally read in the field of war history—though my particular specialties are Newfoundland and Labrador history, constitutional history, the history of the 19th and 20th centuries of Canada—particularly as a Canadian and a private citizen who has visited Vimy Ridge and Beaumont-Hamel, I wish to make one brief observation about the text of the bill here. It's in clause 1, which replaces section 3 of the Holidays Act. It's the phrase, and I quote, “triumphantly concluded by an armistice”. This strikes me in a slightly odd way, and perhaps even in almost a discomforting or maybe even a jingoistic way. Kindly let me explain.

As you will know, Canada's sacrifices, and the sacrifices in my own province of Newfoundland and Labrador, which at the time was a British colony, were very heavy in World War I. Among other engagements, Canada obviously endured the terrible, horrible, cataclysmic, and, as the historians have argued, the nation-forging experience—the crucifixion—if you will, known as Vimy Ridge in April 1917, with 10,600 casualties, among them 3,500 fatalities.

As a fellow dominion of the British Empire at the time, Newfoundland's—Newfoundland and Labrador today—equivalent to Vimy was Beaumont-Hamel, in the Battle of the Somme. Our day occurred on July 1, 1916, when 801 went over the top of those trenches, and the next morning 68 answered the roll call.

That war—the sacrifice, the loss of life, and, in fact, the cost of that war—changed the very nature of life in Newfoundland and Labrador. As much as we might want to think of it today as being triumphant, blood sacrifices of this nature endured by Canada, and Newfoundland and Labrador, are hardly or very rarely ever triumphant.

The Great War, in fact, as we know, was a vicious, brutal, mechanized slaughter of a war, the likes of which had never been seen before in human history.

From my reading of that, I'm cautious about using the word “triumphant”. Yes, Canada was on the winning side, thank God, but at what price? We had to engage in a slaughter, and it was a brutal war. That whole concept of war and loss is very difficult to describe as a triumph.

My mind went back to when, in fact, I walked across the Douai Plain at Vimy. When we, as Canadians, visit there and we look at that profound monument—at least, the several times I did that—my reaction wasn't one of triumphantly concluding an armistice. Rather, personally, very privately, and frankly, I would have to say I had to do all that I could to avoid bursting into tears because of the emotion of that site and the profound, profound sacrifice by our fellow Canadians. At Beaumont-Hamel I was in tears because I found my great-grandmother's brother's name listed on the plaque in front of the caribou memorial as among those who were lost in battle with no known grave.

I believe that Vimy and Beaumont-Hamel are sacred places, if you will, almost holy places for Canadians, just like—and you'll be very familiar with this—the Memorial Chamber in our wonderful Peace Tower where the Books of Remembrance are kept. As Canadians raised in Newfoundland and Labrador, where our experience in World War I and World War II had such a profound influence on our identity and where so many of our citizens know those sacrifices so well from their family experiences, we even find it hard to say we celebrate. “Celebrate” is the wrong word for Remembrance Day; rather, we observe it, and perhaps I will say more on that shortly.

I would just speak for a moment, and perhaps this might be a little bit useful to you, on the mechanics of Bill C-311. I noted from reading the Hansard debates on this bill in the House of Commons that it was recognized by MPs in the debate that the provinces of Canada indeed do have the competence to declare Remembrance Day a public holiday, a legal holiday. Some have already done this, as you've noted.

In this province, Newfoundland and Labrador, that was formally accomplished in the Labour Standards Act of the Revised Statutes of Newfoundland. It was amended in 2001 to formally add Remembrance Day to that list. The mechanism for doing that is the act, of course, but it also enables the Lieutenant Governor in Council to proclaim days as holidays.

It's worth noting that in this province we actually have two separate statutory days or holidays, if you will, on which our war sacrifices are commemorated. They are, of course, the armistice anniversary day on November 11, as Remembrance Day, and the anniversary of Beaumont-Hamel on July 1—at least in the forenoon—which we celebrate as Memorial Day. Most people in my province are very happy to be celebrating Canada Day, but of course, we also have that dual thread of being quite aware of our history in the first war.

This brings me to my final formal observation, that of how, and I guess why, I'm predisposed to believe the intent of Bill C-311 is laudable.

As I say, I've grown up in a province, in a country, and in a community where the warp and weft of the fabric of our society was, in fact, our wartime experiences.

I was a student at Memorial University of Newfoundland, a memorial built in memory of our great war dead in World War I. While I was there as a graduate student, I read primary source documents, letters of people talking about the impact that Beaumont-Hamel had on their families. As a student, I walked through the downtown of St. John's with my late father, who was born in St. John's in 1923. He pointed out to me, when I was a young child, our national war memorial on Water Street, commemorating the people who had died in the Great War—the First World War—and in fact the Second World War and other conflicts. Even Afghanistan is there now.

That memorial—just to digress for a moment—was completed by Thomas Nangle. He was a padre to the Royal Newfoundland Regiment, and it was unveiled in 1924. That memorial, Mr. Chairman, was the first war memorial we can find that was completed in what is now Canada, and in fact in the British Empire. It was inspired directly by the poem In Flanders Fields, by Nangle's friend Colonel McCrae.

You'll see, if you visit St. John's, that there's a statue of a lady holding high the torch. Of course, this is a direct reference to the line in the poem:

The torch; be yours to hold it high. If ye break faith with us who die—

[Dave Geddes]

First off, I would like to thank you people for the opportunity for me to say a few words on Bill C-311.

I spent 42 years working for the Department of National Defence, 30 years in a military uniform and 12 years working as a civilian with the naval people. I also would like to tell you that today I'm talking as an individual supporting this bill. I'm not speaking on behalf of the Legion.

I joined the Royal Canadian Legion in 1964 in North Bay, Ontario. I have served the Legion in many positions in the last number of years. I'm presently on my ninth year as president in Kingston Legion branch 98 in Nova Scotia.

Why is this day so important to me? I think, as a speaker before me mentioned, we owe it to the men and women who made the supreme sacrifice for this great country of ours, and that sacrifice certainly gives us the opportunity to be speaking here today in freedom. Without it, it may have been be different.

We do have a remembrance service every day in the Legion, but the week before Remembrance Day, we all go to schools with the children and discuss with them what remembrance means to them. They have a small remembrance service in the schools before the 11th, and all or most of them attend our service. Our service is at the Legion every year, and I must say that in the last few years, the numbers have gone up. I attribute that to more than one issue. With the conflict in Afghanistan, when we brought all our people home who made the supreme sacrifice, you could see the difference it made in the people in Canada by the way they paid their tribute on the Highway of Heroes as they moved from Trenton to Toronto.

There's no doubt that the schools are a very important part of the program, because we must pass the torch on to the youth so it will not be forgotten, and it's not just because it has been many years since the First World War, the Second World War, Korea, and the latest conflicts that our men and women have been involved with and in which they laid down their lives for this country. There is no doubt that this, the 150th birthday of this great country of ours, could not be a better time to give this to the veterans, showing them that the government really does care, making this holiday legal for the federal government, and allowing the provinces to make their decision as to how they would want to respond to that as well.

There is no doubt that this bill is a modest measure that adds consistency to the language used in the federal Holidays Act in that the word “legal” will be added before the holiday of Remembrance Day. It would make the language the same as for Canada Day and Victoria Day. While it does not give anyone a day off from work or school, the schools are very good at portraying to the young students that they must take up the cause and hold the torch high as we go forth year after year.

It also raises the importance of Remembrance Day and affirms Parliament's commitment to Remembrance Day as being an important day for Canadians who solemnly remember and honour those who have served our country.

The answer, of course, is that, yes, I think you people can do this, and we all understand that, no, we won't have 100% behind it, but I think it is the proper thing to do for our veterans and I think the time could not be better, and as we all know, anyone can choose to be at a Remembrance Day service if, in fact, they are allowed time off from work.

I agree with your saying that we should leave it to the provinces to decide that. I think it's a great gesture on the part of the federal government to show leadership for those who may want to go down that road.

It does not give anyone a new day off. Other people say, “It's just another holiday and it's a day off.” I don't think that's true. I would think that if in fact it became a federal holiday, you would likely see the numbers at the Remembrance Day services in all provinces grow dramatically. Right now, people would like to take time off from work, but they can't afford to. That is what I think. There's no sense in my repeating anything that's been said before me, because you people know all about that.

That would be my suggestion to you. Thank you very much again.

[Wilma McNeill, As an Individual]

Thank you, Chair.

I'm happy to be back in front of this committee. I was here two years ago when I spoke on behalf of Dan Harris. We thought we had the day, but it didn't go that way. They called an election, so we lost it.

I'm back again to speak to you and I appreciate being able to be here.

I have been working on making Remembrance Day a legal holiday for 27 years, and I'm not going away. My late husband, who passed away on September 17, 2013, was in the air force for 23 years. We lived all across Canada, in Comox, Winnipeg, Centralia, and then back to our own hometown in Summerside, Prince Edward Island. We had two sons: Lonnie, who served in the navy for 34 years, and Tim, who served in the army for 15 years and spent six months in Rwanda under Major General Roméo Dallaire. That was quite an experience for him.

My brother was also in the air force for a very short time. My husband's family—six brothers and a sister—served during the war. They all came home safe and sound. We were some of the lucky people in terms of losing people in the war. Their picture hangs in the Royal Canadian Legion in Summerside, Prince Edward Island, along with my husband's sister-in-law, who did 10 trips on the Letitia, bringing war brides to Canada. She will be celebrating her 102nd birthday on June 29. She's still in her own home and she still talks about her service, although she doesn't want to say too much. She just enjoys it.

Why I want to have this day is very simple. This year we're celebrating the 150th birthday of Canada. What better time to do things right in honouring our veterans the way they should be honoured? This year also, Vimy Ridge is celebrating 100 years of service, and I'm attending a dinner on April 2 in Sarnia, Ontario, where we live, to celebrate that occasion. We lost 5,000 young men there, just about, and we want them to be honoured properly.

What we're here today to do, I hope and pray, is lift the level of Remembrance Day to a legal holiday. It's high time, and in this year it's the right thing to do. We have so many freedoms here in Canada that some of us may take for granted, and it's time, for sure, that the veterans have their due. We might say, what does this bill do? It's going to raise the status of Remembrance Day. That, to me, is very important. I have written to all prime ministers and all premiers as they changed office over these 27 years.

This bill also provides consistency in the language for the Holidays Act and raises Remembrance Day to the same status.

I could go on and on about my experiences, but I'm just so happy to be here to ask you to give Colin Fraser the Remembrance Day bill, and pass it and pass it quickly. It's hard to believe that we have such a problem for this very simple thing that we want to do. They just have to have the honour, and I'm going to ask you to please support it.

Sometimes when we talk about Remembrance Day, we hear a lot from the Legion, but we must remember that we have other military groups—the Royal Canadian Air Force, the Royal Canadian Navy, the Merchant Marine, the Vimy Ridge veterans. Maybe they're not speaking out loudly enough, but I've had an awful lot of support from all of those people.

Another thing that we say is that we want it for the children in the schools. You can talk Remembrance Day any day of the year, from January to November, but we'll particularly stress it in the week of November 11. My husband, when he taught, had the service all the time in the school where he taught. He raised the situation for the school system.

I know that sometimes the Legions want to have the children in the schools. Well, if they really and truly believe that, then they should be talking to the education department to open the schools on Saturday and Sunday so that the children can be in school if that's what they want. They should be getting an education. I've written and said, “Yes, do this education in the schools”, for sure, but the idea that they have to be in the school is not really a legal request. They should just join together and let us have the day.

Our job here today, all of you, is to support Bill C-311 and advocate for veterans by showing respect for Remembrance Day. We need this bill. I want the veterans to have the day they deserve. Parliament needs to lead by example. This bill allows Parliament to lead the way for veterans.

You parliamentarians need to show veterans and all Canadians that you think this an important step for Remembrance Day. I hope that this committee will help Mr. Fraser take this critical yet simple step by adding one word to the Holidays Act.

Do you think we can do that? I hope we can.

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

You testified in front of the committee last year. The latest convention, I believe you said, was held in 2016, where you reaffirmed this. Since Bill C-311 has been introduced, have you heard from any of your members, from any of the Legions, with respect to this proposed legislation?

[Brad White, Dominion Secretary, Dominion Command, Royal Canadian Legion]

Honourable vice-chair and members of the committee, good afternoon and thank you very much for inviting the Royal Canadian Legion to appear before the committee to speak on Bill C-311, an act to amend the Holidays Act, regarding Remembrance Day.

On behalf of our president David Flannigan and our 275,000 members, I'm expressing my pleasure at being here. As explained, I'm Brad White, the Dominion secretary of the Royal Canadian Legion. For the past 20 years, I have been involved in every major commemorative activity that the Legion has participated in, as well as being the former director of Canada's national Remembrance Day ceremony.

The Legion's position is that November 11 not be a legal or a statutory holiday, and therefore I will be speaking against Bill C-311.

I'd like to give you a little background information. Such positions and other matters of Legion policy result from resolutions passed at a Dominion convention following consultation and debate at all three levels of our organization.

This procedure for enacting change in the Legion starts at the branch level, where any member can propose a change in policy or administrative procedure that could affect the entire organization. Following a review and discussion by all members within the branch, the resolution passes to the provincial command level. At the provincial command level and at their convention the delegates from within that jurisdiction further consider and discuss the proposed resolution. If the delegates concur, the resolution is submitted to the Dominion command at the national level for our national convention, and this is the third and final level of consultation and debate. If passed by the Dominion convention, which is attended by delegates from all branches, all provincial commands in the organization, the resolution becomes an adopted policy or approved procedure within the Royal Canadian Legion.

As you can see, such matters receive thorough consideration and undergo debate throughout all levels of the organization.

The holiday status of Remembrance Day has been debated at numerous Dominion conventions throughout the Legion's history, in fact, 15 times since 1970 and most recently at our 2016 Dominion convention. At this Dominion convention the Legion's position against Remembrance Day being a statutory holiday was reaffirmed. We remain concerned that Canadians, given time off as a legal holiday, may not take the time to remember and that it may simply become a mid-week break or just another part of a long weekend.

The latter situation relates specifically to the discussion of the 1978 Dominion convention, which focused on how government departments of the day treated November 11 as a floating holiday to give their employees a long weekend. This must never be allowed to happen again.

We have heard an interpretation of what a legal holiday is and that making Remembrance Day a legal holiday would not designate it as a statutory holiday. The semantics of such interpretations are subjective. One needs only to look at the news media reporting on the progress of previous bills on this matter to see how it is a commonplace position that statutory holiday status is exactly what this bill would achieve.

The perception is further validated by association as the bill would serve to designate Remembrance Day the same as Canada Day and Victoria Day, both of which are legal holidays in the Holidays Act with each also being a statutory holiday. If it is not the intent of this bill to make Remembrance Day a statutory holiday, if designating it as a legal holiday only would not change its current status according to the interpretation provided by the Library of Parliament and reported to the Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage, then why would we propose such a current bill?

Perhaps what is needed is to raise the awareness and understanding of Remembrance Day, which could be achieved through an educational strategy. It is paramount that the significance of Remembrance Day be instilled in our youth and the general population to show their respect for the sacrifices of our fallen. To honour this day, many schools hold assemblies, which they organize within their own commemoration programs. Some teachers take students to collectively participate with their peers in ceremonies at local cenotaphs, thereby strengthening the impact and the significance of the 11th of November.

The Legion works very closely with schools throughout the country to provide an educational component about Remembrance Day in addition to welcoming classes at ceremonies. The Legion's teaching guide is an excellent educational tool which has been viewed or downloaded from our website more than one million times.

The Ontario Federation of Home and School Associations expressed strong support for the Legion's position on Remembrance Day. The association noted in the 1960s that Ontarians did observe Remembrance Day as a school holiday. Children remained at home to play, watch television, and enjoy a day of rest. Few were involved in events recognizing the significance of the day. At that time, veterans' groups, school boards, and other organizations, such as the OFHSA, petitioned to have schools remain open on Remembrance Day so that suitable remembrance services could be held in schools to provide students with a better understanding of the purpose and the tribute paid.

As well, last June, when we made a presentation to this very committee, we had Madam Sonia Gallo, from the York Catholic School Board, appear alongside us at the committee meeting on Bill C-597; and she again supported the Legion's position.

So, too, are we encouraged to hear of organized commemorations taking place in workplaces on November 11. We need to make honouring and remembering an important part of our regular routine on November 11, and not simply provide a day off from school or work.

As an example, take Victoria Day, a legal holiday, and question what observances are being held across the country to honour Queen Victoria who, until last year, was Canada's longest-serving monarch. For most, it simply provides a long weekend in May. We should not let Remembrance Day follow the same fate.

We thank you again for this opportunity for the Legion to express our views, and again our organization opposes Bill C-311.

Thank you, Chair.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Larry Maguire]

Thank you very much, Mr. Fraser.

I didn't say it earlier, but this afternoon we are of course dealing with Bill C-311, your private member's bill.

I gave you a few extra seconds to wrap up. With that, I'll open it up to questions.

Mr. Samson, please.