That's fine, Mr. Chair; I understand. As we shared earlier, it's similar to chiefs business. When the chiefs have a meeting that they need to attend to, then we are at their pleasure.
We were explaining basically the four elements to moving forward under employment and the projects themselves. The first was in procurement and employment equity in a meaningful sense. We can talk about how we think that could be achieved.
The second is accommodation. An example is using the crown-first nation consultation and accommodation process to establish measures with regard to terms and conditions in enforceable licences—which is what we were after with the National Energy Board in 1984—to ensure that these types of initiatives take place. There are substantial tools to do that. We raised that, of course, with the Senate committee. They endorsed our recommendation in A Hand Up, Not A Handout.
We need innovative mechanisms to ensure engagement at the community level in terms of business start-ups, investments, and training and employment. There is also, of course, as has been heard from many witnesses, revenue- and benefit-sharing. This takes multiple forms in terms of the sharing of direct revenues of the projects themselves, and the tax revenues governments may receive.
The concept of benefit-sharing is very widespread. There are a lot of different mechanisms and approaches to be taken, but they all tie together with policy. Manitoba Hydro, after operating and building dams in MKO's territory since the 1960s, has no codified aboriginal employment equity policy, so managers cannot be held accountable. Hudbay Minerals, similarly, has no codified aboriginal employment equity policy, so there are no targets that can be measured.
The aboriginal procurement initiative of the province really doesn't reach out to these kinds of capital works and projects. Even if the government itself is contracting the work, like the mines remediation project, the procurement requirements do not work downstream on the subcontract. The instant it's subcontracted, it's gone.
The federal PSAB has much more workable policies, but we're finding, in our experience with it, that it's not always applied as Treasury Board has intended. So the benefits and opportunities that first nation businesses in Manitoba may have secured through federal procurement may not have been achieved.
I believe, Mr. Chair, I've probably hit my two and half minutes.