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Evidence of meeting #39 for Indigenous and Northern Affairs in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was estimates.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Michael Wernick  Deputy Minister, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

John Duncan Conservative Vancouver Island North, BC

As I read it, that's $6.4 billion out of the $7.8 billion in the main estimates. If there are no rules and we're not talking about supplementary estimates (A), then there are no rules.

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Chris Warkentin

Minister, maybe we can just run down exactly what's included in vote 1a, and maybe that would answer Mr. Genest-Jourdain's question.

Is that right, Mr. Genest-Jourdain? Is that the question you're asking?

4:45 p.m.

NDP

Jonathan Genest-Jourdain NDP Manicouagan, QC

It depends on the answer.

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Chris Warkentin

It depends on the....

4:45 p.m.

Conservative

John Duncan Conservative Vancouver Island North, BC

Mr. Chair, to clarify, vote 10 is grants and contributions, which is the major part of the department. Vote 1 is the other part, and that's our operating expenditures. That's virtually all of the departmental spending. That's just a summary. That page is a summary of total spending under the grants and contributions. That's not what supplementary estimates (A) or (B) or (C) are about, which is the incremental spending after the original budget.

So it's whatever the chair rules. It's not what I rule; it's what you rule.

4:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Chris Warkentin

I just wanted to make sure that Mr. Genest-Jourdain got an answer to his question. Clearly if it's outside the scope of supplementary estimates (A), then we'll have to move on.

Mr. Genest-Jourdain, we'll turn it over to you for the next question with regard to supplementary estimates (A).

4:50 p.m.

NDP

Carol Hughes NDP Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON

I need some clarification here. So—

4:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Chris Warkentin

Mr. Genest-Jourdain has the floor. We'll turn it over to Mr. Genest-Jourdain for his question.

4:50 p.m.

NDP

Jonathan Genest-Jourdain NDP Manicouagan, QC

Obviously, people are trying to play for time, but I have other questions.

Will you admit that reducing social assistance, combined with the lack of investment in education, is a mistake, and will you also recognize that we need to invest more in training, instead of reducing eligibility to the social assistance program?

4:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Chris Warkentin

Again, Mr. Genest-Jourdain, you'll have to refer to the vote that you're speaking of with regard to supplementary estimates (A).

4:50 p.m.

NDP

Jonathan Genest-Jourdain NDP Manicouagan, QC

We have just looked into that, Mr. Chair. I have just given you the exact page, page 63. It's all there.

4:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Chris Warkentin

Mr. Genest-Jourdain, which vote are you specifically speaking about?

4:50 p.m.

NDP

Carol Hughes NDP Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON

I have a point of order on this.

4:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Chris Warkentin

On a point of order, Mrs. Hughes.

4:50 p.m.

NDP

Carol Hughes NDP Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON

Thank you.

We've indicated that the operational expenditures encompass a variety of things, which is the capacity development for Indian and Inuit and the furnishings of material and equipment, and there's a lot that goes into that amount.

4:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Chris Warkentin

This isn't a point of order, Ms. Hughes. If Mr. Genest-Jourdain would like to pass on some of his time to you, that's fine, but Mr. Genest-Jourdain should continue with his questions.

4:50 p.m.

NDP

Carol Hughes NDP Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON

It was some clarification. It was a point of order.

4:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Chris Warkentin

That's not a point of order. I'm ruling.

Mr. Genest-Jourdain, we'll continue with your question.

Ms. Sims, on a point of order.

June 6th, 2012 / 4:50 p.m.

NDP

Jinny Sims NDP Newton—North Delta, BC

I'm just trying to seek some clarification, Chair, so please bear with me, because I'm new to this committee.

When I heard the presentation made by the minister...I believe the minister himself opened it up to go beyond the supplementary estimates, which you keep trying to limit the speakers to.

4:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Chris Warkentin

Is there anything in specific terms that you can bring?

4:50 p.m.

NDP

Jinny Sims NDP Newton—North Delta, BC

Well, there are actually so many different sections in this.

As I was listening to him, I heard your admonition at the beginning and I was very conscious of it. But when you look at it, he talks about the supplementary estimates of $150 million that will go.... Then he gets into the action plan of 2007, which once again has very little to do with it here. Then he starts giving the history—

4:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Chris Warkentin

Ms. Sims, have you had a chance to read the estimates (A)?

4:50 p.m.

NDP

Jinny Sims NDP Newton—North Delta, BC

I have had a chance to—

4:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Chris Warkentin

I believe you'll find all that information contained within that document.

4:50 p.m.

NDP

Jinny Sims NDP Newton—North Delta, BC

I really would urge you to...and I think I saw some nodding of heads—