Evidence of meeting #11 for Afghanistan in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was officials.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Heidi Hulan  Assistant Deputy Minister and Political Director, International Security and Political Affairs, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Cindy Termorshuizen  Associate Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Peter MacDougall  Assistant Deputy Minister, Global Issues and Development, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Clerk of the Committee  Ms. Miriam Burke
Paul Thoppil  Assistant Deputy Minister, Asia Pacific, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Julie Sunday  Acting Assistant Deputy Minister, Consular, Security and Emergency Management, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

8:10 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Asia Pacific, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

Paul Thoppil

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

As the minister noted in her remarks, there have been significant reach-outs beyond Pakistan. Qatar comes first to mind, because they played a pivotal role in staging, aircraft and logistical supports during that time, as well as Kuwait for the air bridge that the CAF had put into place. I think we also need to acknowledge that there have been myriad pathways for Afghans who have found their way out regardless of whether they had the right documentation. We have been trying to ensure that these countries are apprised of Canada's commitment to return them and ensuring that there is time for our embassies to engage with these individuals, to go through the screening and the application processing and, therefore, once approved, to then organize those charters beyond just Pakistan but from the different countries where Afghans have found themselves and have been trying to find a way forward if they have met the application process requirements in order to come here.

That has resulted in not just those countries in the region, but many countries where Afghans have been, beyond essentially the Persian Gulf.... That also has been further supplemented by the intelligence conversations that we have been having with our like-minded allies, who all have the same challenges going forward.

So it really has been an international diplomatic engagement that has been beyond the norm in order to share information and to understand what is succeeding and what is not working, and adjusting advocacy methods as we engage with a multitude of countries to ensure safe passage where possible.

8:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sukh Dhaliwal

Thank you very much, Mr. Sidhu.

I will go to Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe for two and a half minutes.

Please go ahead.

8:10 p.m.

Bloc

Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to take this opportunity to thank the witnesses for being with us this evening. I think that this is the last time I will address them today.

Ms. Termorshuizen, you alluded to the Syrian crisis in 2015. During that crisis, Canada Border Services Agency officers collected the biometric data of Syrians arriving on Canadian soil. Through their union, the officers confirmed that this was indeed the case.

Why did we allow the collection of biometrics from Syrians on Canadian soil during the 2015 crisis, and not from Afghans during the 2021 crisis, or even from Ukrainians during the 2022 crisis?

What is the basis for this disparity?

8:10 p.m.

Associate Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

Cindy Termorshuizen

I'm afraid I wasn't involved in the details of the Syria effort at the time. I'm not quite sure how the biometrics were done at that point, so I can't speak to that, I'm afraid. If the other officials on the line can, they'd be most welcome to jump in.

8:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sukh Dhaliwal

Do any of the officials want to respond, please?

8:10 p.m.

Associate Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

Cindy Termorshuizen

Just so that you're aware, Mr. Chair, the comparison I was making was in terms of the safe passage issue.

8:10 p.m.

Bloc

Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC

I understood the difference, but I was just establishing a link that way.

This may be a shortfall at Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada, or IRCC, as well as at Global Affairs Canada, or GAC, but there doesn't seem to be an emergency mechanism that these two departments can call upon during an international conflict such as the ones currently taking place in Ukraine and Afghanistan, or during a natural disaster. The devastating earthquake in Haiti comes to mind.

Would you be supportive of us implementing a contingency process that IRCC and GAC could use during an international crisis?

This would allow you to exercise some form of leverage. It would be a bit like the Emergency Measures Act, but it would apply to international crises or conflicts.

In your opinion, could this be a worthwhile solution?

8:15 p.m.

Associate Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

Cindy Termorshuizen

I guess what I would say, Mr. Chair, and I'll ask my—

8:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sukh Dhaliwal

You have 20 seconds.

8:15 p.m.

Associate Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

Cindy Termorshuizen

What I would say is that we actually have a mechanism like that already. We have an emergency watch and response centre set up at Global Affairs Canada, and this is the point where we coordinate the response to international emergencies. We stand up an emergency response team when a major crisis happens and we bring in the partner departments that we need to—

8:15 p.m.

Bloc

Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC

This would not apply to IRCC, but only to Global Affairs Canada.

Is this correct?

8:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sukh Dhaliwal

Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe, thank you very much for your time.

8:15 p.m.

Bloc

Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, everyone.

8:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sukh Dhaliwal

We'll go to Madam Kwan for two and a half minutes.

Please go ahead.

8:15 p.m.

NDP

Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC

Thank you.

I'd like to clarify with the officials what documentation I'm looking for. Specifically, I'd like to get the officials to table how many GAC-referred people were submitted to IRCC and how many of those have been issued a G number that they are aware of, and how many have arrived in Canada.

As well, I'd like the officials to submit to us how many do not have a G number among those people referred to IRCC—among the GAC referrals—and when the first and last referral were made to IRCC from GAC.

Also, could the officials advise us as to whether or not women athletes have applied to GAC for referrals, and if GAC has made any of those referrals to IRCC?

8:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sukh Dhaliwal

Thank you.

I will go to the associate deputy minister. Please respond.

8:15 p.m.

Associate Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

Cindy Termorshuizen

I'll pass the floor to Mr. Thoppil, if you don't mind, Mr. Chair.

8:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sukh Dhaliwal

Sure. No problem.

Mr. Thoppil, go ahead please.

8:15 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Asia Pacific, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

Paul Thoppil

Mr. Chair, we would be very pleased to provide answers to all of those questions.

Just based on data that I have in front of me, just to be helpful to respond to the member's questions, I would note that it's a fluid situation and that the numbers of Afghans coming here are always increasing nicely—perhaps not as fast as we would all like, for sure. But recently, we had—

8:15 p.m.

NDP

Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC

I'm sorry, I don't mean to interrupt you. I'm just running out of time and I've got one more question. If I could get that information submitted to the committee through the clerk, that would be great, as we could then share it with everyone.

I would like to ask very quickly if, in the ongoing work on this file, GAC is still accepting referrals at this point in time, and would you support having IRCC expand the referral groups to, let's say, Amnesty International?

8:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sukh Dhaliwal

You have 13 seconds.

8:15 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Asia Pacific, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

Paul Thoppil

Mr. Chair, as I may have said, we are still receiving inquiries every day through our GAC intake box. But the answer to the question is really the prerogative of the minister of IRCC, and it's that minister who really should be here to respond to that question.

8:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sukh Dhaliwal

Thank you.

We'll go to Madam Findlay for five minutes.

8:15 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Chong Conservative Wellington—Halton Hills, ON

Mr. Chair, I think Madam Findlay passed her time on to me.

8:15 p.m.

Conservative

Kerry-Lynne Findlay Conservative South Surrey—White Rock, BC

Yes, I did.