Evidence of meeting #11 for Afghanistan in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was officials.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Heidi Hulan  Assistant Deputy Minister and Political Director, International Security and Political Affairs, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Cindy Termorshuizen  Associate Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Peter MacDougall  Assistant Deputy Minister, Global Issues and Development, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Clerk of the Committee  Ms. Miriam Burke
Paul Thoppil  Assistant Deputy Minister, Asia Pacific, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Julie Sunday  Acting Assistant Deputy Minister, Consular, Security and Emergency Management, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

7:35 p.m.

Peter MacDougall Assistant Deputy Minister, Global Issues and Development, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

Yes, we have taken a number of mitigation measures.

Just to clarify, we're working primarily with UN institutions, as well as the International Committee of the Red Cross. We use a variety of [Technical difficulty—Editor]

7:35 p.m.

Bloc

Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

Our guest's microphone is not working properly and it is difficult for the interpreters to do their job. Since we know that they are working very hard, I would like us to help them.

7:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sukh Dhaliwal

We'll check.

Madam Clerk, could you check?

I have stopped the watch, Mr. Genuis.

7:35 p.m.

The Clerk of the Committee Ms. Miriam Burke

Could you suspend for a moment, please, Mr. Chair?

7:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sukh Dhaliwal

The meeting is suspended for two minutes.

7:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sukh Dhaliwal

Let me call the meeting back to order.

Mr. Genuis, go ahead for two minutes please.

7:35 p.m.

Conservative

Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB

For the witness, I wonder if you can clarify if you think the current Criminal Code provisions as they apply are clear, or if they are challenging to understand and navigate. My sense from civil society is that it's the provisions themselves, but it's also the sense of “if you put a foot wrong, then you're violating the Criminal Code”, which is obviously very serious.

How can you help private organizations that are operating in this space to really understand how to navigate within the circumstances?

7:40 p.m.

Associate Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

Cindy Termorshuizen

Peter is really the expert on this, but I'll do my best to channel him.

I think that our civil society organizations clearly want to do their job and do it well. I know that we have conversations with many of our civil society organizations to explain to them as best we can the situation and the Criminal Code provisions.

This is obviously a really difficult area. I really can't say much more about how they interpret it and the challenges they're facing, but we know that they have come to us and have spoken to us about them. I have spoken with some of these organizations myself. We know that it's a difficult reality for them.

7:40 p.m.

Conservative

Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB

Yes. Maybe I would just invite some of the civil society organizations to submit briefs to this committee to inform us of their ongoing work.

I hope that you'll continue to look for options in terms of clarity around that legislation: how to make it work and work well, and possible changes to the legislation or clearer information. It's a huge problem, and I don't think we're where we need to be in terms of actually getting the support to people in this dire situation.

Thanks.

7:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sukh Dhaliwal

Thank you very much, Mr. Genuis.

7:40 p.m.

Associate Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

Cindy Termorshuizen

Yes, and we are definitely looking at options.

7:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sukh Dhaliwal

Okay. We appreciate that.

Now we'll go to Mr. Baker for six minutes.

Please go ahead.

7:40 p.m.

Liberal

Yvan Baker Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON

Thanks very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to our officials for being with us today, in person and virtually, and for your service to our country on the issues related to Afghanistan and otherwise.

I'd like to ask you about the food shortage in Afghanistan. The minister, in response to one of my colleagues from the opposition, spoke a bit to this issue.

What I'm concerned about in particular—I want to build on what the minister was talking about—is that there are concerns that Russia's invasion of Ukraine could spark a global food shortage, in part because many countries in Africa and the Middle East rely on Ukrainian food exports, particularly wheat, but other food exports as well. Also, of course, the World Food Programme is reporting that since the Taliban has taken over Afghanistan, 50% of Afghans as it is are not receiving enough food.

How do you see Russia's invasion of Ukraine impacting countries around the globe in terms of the food supply, and specifically Afghanistan?

7:40 p.m.

Associate Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

Cindy Termorshuizen

We still can't access Mr. MacDougall, is that correct?

I'm happy to respond to the question.

I think you've raised a very good point in terms of the serious impacts we are beginning to see as a result of the Russian invasion of Ukraine.

As all of the members know, both Russia and Ukraine are important food providers. Russia is also a major provider of fertilizers, so the impact is likely to be very significant. Some countries are much more dependent on exports of food items from Russia and Ukraine than others. In various countries in the Middle East in particular, we see a very heavy reliance on those exports. Lebanon, some countries in North Africa and some countries in South Asia are very heavily dependent.

This is a real concern. Minister Joly and many of our senior officials in the department have been working very closely with allies to look at what we can do to address this to make sure that there is as good a food supply as possible. We're looking at providing extra supports to some of these countries that are particularly affected.

With respect to Afghanistan, I am not sure what the percentage of dependence is that they have on, for instance, wheat from Ukraine. As Minister Joly mentioned, the food security situation in Afghanistan was already quite serious prior to the takeover by the Taliban in August last year. There was a lot of concern with respect to a drought. Those conditions—the impact of climate change and an ongoing food security situation—continue.

All that is to say the Government of Canada is intensely engaged with other countries around the world and with international organizations, particularly within the UN system, to look at anything we can do to ensure that those impacts are mitigated.

7:45 p.m.

Liberal

Yvan Baker Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON

Thank you.

Just to build on your answer, what are some of the things Canada is doing and what are some of the potential measures out there to address the potential for global food shortages or even famines related specifically to Russia's invasion of Ukraine?

I'm concerned about the impact on Afghanistan, but I presume that the impact on Afghanistan will be similarly felt in other countries. What are some of the measures...? You can't suddenly just supply.... Are there food reserves that can be tapped? How does that work? What can be done?

7:45 p.m.

Associate Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

Cindy Termorshuizen

As I mentioned, we're working very closely with the World Food Programme and with other UN institutions looking at how we can ensure that supply chains remain resilient.

We're also identifying those countries that are particularly vulnerable because some countries are much more vulnerable than others. Some countries are dependent on Ukraine for 70% to 80% of their wheat and clearly they will not be getting that amount of input this year. We're really working with those countries to identify where those gaps are and what we can do to assist in filling those, and ensuring that the World Food Programme and other organizations are able to work effectively in those places.

A lot of international coordination is ongoing.

7:45 p.m.

Liberal

Yvan Baker Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON

Thank you.

I don't think I'm going to have time for another question, Chair, so I cede the rest of my time.

7:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sukh Dhaliwal

Thank you. You still have 40 seconds, but if that's the case—

7:45 p.m.

Liberal

Yvan Baker Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON

I'll just take this opportunity to thank our officials for being here and for all of their work both in Afghanistan and on issues around the world.

Thank you.

7:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sukh Dhaliwal

Thank you, Mr. Baker.

We'll go to Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe for six minutes.

Please go ahead.

7:45 p.m.

Bloc

Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you very much to the witnesses who are with us this evening. We are grateful for their time and for the answers they provide. These are extremely important for the upcoming draft of the committee's report and recommendations.

Ms. Termorshuizen, if I ask you the same question I asked the Minister, I imagine I might get the same answer.

Am I wrong?

7:45 p.m.

Associate Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

Cindy Termorshuizen

I think that's probably correct.

7:45 p.m.

Bloc

Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC

Thank you.

In recent weeks, the Islamic State has claimed responsibility for a number of attacks that targeted members of Afghanistan's Shiite minority, particularly the Hazaras.

There is a Hazara community here in Canada that is putting on a lot of pressure and doing a tremendous job. We have to help the Hazaras who are over there now. We are being asked to recognize them as a persecuted group, and so far that has not been done.

Do you know what is holding us back from recognizing the Hazaras as a persecuted group?

7:45 p.m.

Associate Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

Cindy Termorshuizen

Maybe I'll start with that question and then pass the floor to my colleague Paul Thoppil. My colleague Heidi Hulan can also speak on the security situation.

We've also noted with real concern the growing number of attacks. As you've rightly pointed out, a lot of them have been targeted towards minority groups, like the Hazara—

7:50 p.m.

Bloc

Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC

I'm sorry to interrupt, but I haven't had access to interpretation since you started speaking, Ms. Termorshuizen.

Mr. Chair, can we start from the beginning without me losing time?