Afghanistan Committee on April 4th, 2022

[Kerry-Lynne Findlay, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock, BC]

I'm sorry. When was it?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

It was April 1.

[Kerry-Lynne Findlay, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock, BC]

We heard testimony from the then-ambassador, Minister, through the chair, that they had very little warning that Kabul would fall. When they left, they left, frankly, in a pretty big hurry. However, we heard other testimony that, for some months, veterans and others in the national defence sphere knew this was happening.

When would you say that you, as minister, were aware that we were really in danger of Kabul falling?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Mr. Chair, during that time, we were proactive. Because the situation on the ground was deteriorating, a request came from Global Affairs Canada. I, as the minister of national defence, could not authorize troop deployments into a country. There had to be a request. Once a request was made, it was authorized the very next day.

Our troops went into theatre to do the assessment and, because of the team we had on the ground, they were able to start assessing the situation. We were monitoring things literally daily. That allowed us to pivot some of our work that we were doing for the evacuation as well.

[Kerry-Lynne Findlay, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock, BC]

Through the chair, were you able to share that intelligence in real time with the embassy?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Mr. Chair, in fact, our people on the ground were working hand in glove with the embassy staff at that time. Because we didn't have a footprint on the ground, our team there—alongside the embassy, which also had its own networks—was working hand in glove physically and feeding the information back to us.

[Kerry-Lynne Findlay, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock, BC]

My last question, Mr. Chair, is with respect to the evacuation of the ambassador and embassy staff, which no doubt had become urgent. We've heard testimony that when they left, they left in a plane that was only about half full.

Can you confirm that?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Mr. Chair, I can't confirm exactly what the planeload was. What I can say, though, is that, once the decision to leave was made by our ambassador, because an ambassador has the authority to do so, the security situation was severely degrading, and the decision that was made was the appropriate one to get everybody out quickly enough so that our Canadian officials were not put at risk.

[Kerry-Lynne Findlay, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you, Madam Findlay, and thank you for being respectful and professional while fielding your questions.

Mr. Sidhu, please go ahead for six minutes.

[Maninder Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton East, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to, first and foremost, welcome Minister Sajjan to our committee and thank him for taking the time to be with us today.

Minister Sajjan, I had the honour to welcome many Afghan Sikh refugees a few weeks ago at the airport, including little Tanveer Kaur, who was extremely energetic and playful and looking forward to her childhood experiences in Canada, even after a lengthy flight. It was a moment that I will remember forever.

I know you have working closely with the Manmeet Singh Bhullar Foundation in their work to settle Afghan, Sikh and Hindu refugees over many, many years. Thank you for your hard work on this incredibly important initiative. I saw first-hand what it meant to the families arriving in Canada. Huge kudos to the Manmeet Singh Bhullar Foundation for their tireless work in bringing the community together to welcome so many families from Afghanistan to a new and prosperous life here in Canada.

Minister, in your opening remarks, you mentioned the inequality towards women and girls and how truly disturbing that is. Many of us on this committee saw the news out of Afghanistan just a few weeks ago that the Taliban will not allow women and girls to go to school after the sixth grade. This is extremely disheartening and needs to change.

Speaking of women and girls, Minister, through the chair, can you please tell us what Canada is doing to support women's education within Afghanistan?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Mr. Chair, first of all I want to thank the member for the question. I also want to take this opportunity to thank the Manmeet Singh Bhullar Foundation for the tremendous work they have done over the years.

The situation in Afghanistan is extremely dire. The regression by the Taliban to bring in the old ideology they had is extremely alarming. One thing, first of all, with the message that we're sending is that the education of women and girls is not negotiable. You can't put a grade limit to it either, as we have heard from recent news stories.

Right now we're focused because the humanitarian situation is so dire. We're providing immediate humanitarian support when it comes to food and health, and we will look at the other opportunities when it comes to education as well, but we cannot ever relent on the condition, which is to allow unconditional access to school for girls.

[Maninder Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton East, ON]

Thank you for that, Minister.

Minister, you spoke a bit about food insecurity in the region. We know that Ukraine, especially eastern Ukraine, is the breadbasket for a lot of Europe and a lot of developing countries. Right now one of the greatest issues facing the Afghan people is food insecurity. I know you mentioned a $50-million response. Can you speak more about that response?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Right after the country fell to the Taliban, we knew there was going to be a significant humanitarian crisis, and we wanted to make sure that we supported the Afghan people. That's why earlier in December we authorized funding to the World Food Programme to provide support. Right now you have the World Food Programme getting the majority of the funding to literally save lives. That's what this is about.

I spoke with David Beasley, who runs the World Food Programme, of making sure that there is equitable distribution and of making sure that women, girls and minority groups across the country get the support they need. As well, we're providing additional support through different NGOs to make sure that women and girls get the appropriate attention.

[Maninder Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton East, ON]

Thank you for that.

Mr. Chair, through you, we've had many witnesses on our committee come and speak to us from a lot of NGOs about access to Afghanistan in terms of aid delivery, humanitarian assistance and many different issues arising from that. We know that there are the counterterrorism provisions in the Criminal Code that don't make things as easy as we wish they were.

Minister, can you tell us how Canada is still able to deliver humanitarian assistance in Afghanistan despite the provisions in place in the Criminal Code?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Mr. Chair, thank you very much for the member's question.

Yes, there is a law currently in place. The Taliban is a known and registered terrorist entity. We have to abide by the law. When it comes to the humanitarian support we're providing through our partners, the humanitarian support is getting through. We are able to work with those partners. Because of the current law, there are certain restrictions in place, so we are currently exploring options for the next steps.

Keep in mind that the majority of the work and the support that are needed are in the humanitarian space. We are able to provide the appropriate humanitarian emergency support. We are exploring other options, with the appropriate departments, to look at the next steps if the situation changes in Afghanistan.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

You have 15 seconds left.

[Maninder Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton East, ON]

Oh, okay. Well, I'll just take some time to thank the minister and the whole team at International Development and Global Affairs for their ongoing work.

It's definitely a challenging time, but I do appreciate everything you're doing. Thank you again.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you, Mr. Sidhu, in particular for raising the Manmeet Singh Bhullar Foundation. I'm sure that, since Manmeet was a former minister in Alberta, he was very near and dear to all of us. Thank you.

Now we'll go to Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe for six minutes. Please go ahead.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank the minister for finding the time to join us in committee today.

I just heard him talk to us about problems NGOs are facing when it comes to delivering humanitarian assistance on the ground. So I assume he knows that Canadian criminal law is one of the causes of those problems, right?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Mr. Chair, as I mentioned, the law that's in place is not preventing us from providing humanitarian support. Obviously, organizations do know the parameters of our Canadian law that stipulates how we can give money right now. We are able to work with organizations like the UN, the International Red Cross and some other organizations that are able to work within the parameters we have.

However, we are exploring options on the next steps and the things we can do to work through some of those concerns.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

I understand, but a number of NGO representatives have come to tell us, in committee, that this was causing issues for them because they feared prosecution. You can look at the committee evidence, where that is written in black and white. If those people have such fears, they must be helped.

Following a lot of testimony we heard in committee on the difficulty of delivering humanitarian assistance in Afghanistan, I moved a motion, a month ago, asking that NGOs be assured that they will not be prosecuted, so as to enable them to play their cooperation and humanitarian assistance roles in the areas most at risk. NGOs themselves told us that such a motion would be welcomed. The next day, I moved my motion. It was your party, the Liberal party, that refused to adopt it. All the other opposition parties were in agreement. Even members of your party told me they agreed with the motion. Unfortunately, your party said no to unanimous consent.

So, if I were to once again move that motion, could I count on you to put pressure on your colleagues, so that they would not oppose it this time?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

Mr. Chair, I appreciate the honourable member's question.

One is that when it comes to the actual law itself, all of us have to abide by it. It's not something that I can just facilitate. Having said that, I have heard also, and spoken to a lot of the NGOs, and especially Canadian NGOs—which have done tremendous work—about the impact that this law has. However, it doesn't prevent us from providing humanitarian support through organizations like the United Nations. This is one reason we are exploring the options within this law and looking at other opportunities for what we can do, everything from having—

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

It may not completely prevent them from delivering humanitarian assistance, but they have told us it prevented them from doing their job fully. They told us that here outright. If you like, I will send you the committee evidence. It was definitely said.

Do you know what our allies are doing? It appears that the Americans and the Europeans have adapted. Are you aware of that?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe, I would say, respectfully, to please come through the chair, and please don't interrupt the minister when he is talking.