I'm really sorry, Mr. Chair.
Evidence of meeting #8 for Afghanistan in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was chair.
A video is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #8 for Afghanistan in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was chair.
A video is available from Parliament.
6:55 p.m.
Liberal
Harjit S. Sajjan Liberal Vancouver South, BC
Mr. Chair, to answer the member's question, those are the things we are looking at when I say we're exploring options. We are looking at what other nations are doing. The law is currently in place. We have to follow it.
The other partners we normally work with do understand the law. I've spoken to many of them. I've heard their concerns directly. I know the tremendous work they can do. This is one of the reasons why we are actively exploring other options, and looking at other nations and what they do. That's why we're exploring for ourselves what the next steps could be.
7 p.m.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
Why is it taking so long?
Why have the Americans and Europeans already been able to do it, while we are still exploring certain options? I don't understand that.
Mr. Chair, can the minister tell me why it always takes longer in Canada? The Americans and Europeans have already adapted to the situation.
7 p.m.
Liberal
Harjit S. Sajjan Liberal Vancouver South, BC
Mr. Chair, our law is currently where it's at. There are certain parameters set by it. The U.S. already has certain laws in place that allow certain NGOs to conduct that work. It's already in place. That's why they are able to act right now. This is why we are now exploring the types of options we need.
If you like, Mr. Chair, I can have one of our officials explain what the current U.S. structure is.
7 p.m.
Christopher MacLennan Deputy Minister, International Development, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Thank you very much.
The problem is that every country has a different legal framework.
I am not an expert on U.S. legislation, but I know that the United States already had a mechanism in place, which enabled it to provide a license related to certain activities outside its legal framework. That was already in the legislation when the events of August 2021 took place.
Canada's problem is that, since 2002, legislation has been in force, but we don't have that mechanism. So the legislation needs to be amended.
7 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sukh Dhaliwal
Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe, your time is up. We'll come back to this. Thank you kindly.
Now we'll go to Ms. Kwan for six minutes.
Please go ahead.
7 p.m.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to the minister and the officials for coming to the committee.
I would like to follow up on this issue.
World Vision Canada's president said:
At World Vision Canada, we have funding and supplies that are needed now but that we cannot send to our teams on the ground. As just one example, we had two containers ready to ship full of packets of ready-to-use therapeutic food, which is used to treat children facing the severest forms of malnutrition.... It was heartbreaking that we had to say no.
This is because the Taliban is on Canada's Anti-terrorism Act's list of terrorist entities. The view is that payment of direct or indirect taxes or fees to them in any form, even for goods like these, would be in violation of this Canadian law.
He then goes on to talk about the Criminal Code, and so on.
The government has been aware of this thanks to witnesses who have testified. They have been aware of this since August. That's eight months ago. There is still no workaround. There is still no resolution. Meanwhile, children are dying. That is the reality of what is happening on the ground.
My question for the minister, who is continuing to study this issue, is, how long is it really going to take? How many more children are going to have to die until they actually find a resolution?
7 p.m.
Liberal
Harjit S. Sajjan Liberal Vancouver South, BC
Mr. Chair, first of all, I appreciate the member's question.
I want to make it very clear that the current law, in terms of our support, has not prevented us...all the funding that we provided for the immediate emergency humanitarian needs of people, especially of children. We are working with partners who have experience and are able to deliver the appropriate support to the women and children who actually need it.
When it comes to this law, as I stated, it does pose a challenge for some organizations that are not able to meet the current parameters we have. The immediate need, right now, is for emergency humanitarian assistance, which we are able to deliver.
7 p.m.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
The minister must realize, through you to him, Mr. Chair, that a huge number of people have needs. Even Canada's contribution is not going to be sufficient. World Vision, as well as Care Canada and other Canadian-based organizations, cannot get this work done. They have resources that they have received from other sectors, but they have food packets and medicine ready to go, sitting in containers that they cannot deliver.
I appreciate that, in the meantime, some work is being done, and it should be done. It needs to continue being done. However, there is zero justification in this urgent situation that additional resources are not put on the ground and are allowed to not be put on the ground.
I asked a question of the president and other NGOs to find out if Canada were to enter into an agreement with them—a letter of understanding, a memorandum of understanding and such—to say that if they delivered care packets and such on the ground to starving children and children dying of malnutrition, they would not be prosecuted under Canada's Criminal Code. That would suffice for them to do this work.
Is the minister looking at this option?
7:05 p.m.
Liberal
Harjit S. Sajjan Liberal Vancouver South, BC
Mr. Chair, I'm glad the member raised this question. In fact, we have been looking at all of the various options and speaking to the organizations directly. I want to reiterate once again that all of the funding we're providing is getting to the people who need it.
I'd like to have Patrick Hill answer the legal question. He can provide greater detail if possible.
7:05 p.m.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
No. I'm sorry.
Mr. Chair, I'd like the minister to answer this question. How much longer do these organizations have to wait until he finds a resolution and puts it in operation?
7:05 p.m.
Liberal
Harjit S. Sajjan Liberal Vancouver South, BC
Mr. Chair, I'm happy to answer the question. I can't give a timeline. I wish I could.
Right now, as the Minister of International Development, I have to work within the current law that we have. One thing I can assure you, Mr. Chair, all of these members and the entire House is that we are not going to leave any stone unturned to provide support for the Afghan people. That's exactly what we have done. It's the reason we announced our funding very quickly—as early as last December—and we continually do so. We have been monitoring the situation on the ground for the immediate humanitarian needs.
However, to alleviate this, we have been actively working on options—
7:05 p.m.
Liberal
Harjit S. Sajjan Liberal Vancouver South, BC
—with other departments, so that we can find a solution for this.
7:05 p.m.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
Thank you, Minister.
I have to say this, Mr. Chair. The minister can repeat the same answer over and over again, as he's turning pebble by pebble to turn each rock that he wants to overturn to find the answers.... It's been eight months.
I'm sorry. It is not good enough. The witnesses have said that the government does not feel the urgency of the situation. I think we see that right now from the minister's answers. They do not feel the urgency of the situation to act. Other countries have done it. Canada is the only nation that has not been able to resolve this issue.
7:05 p.m.
Liberal
Harjit S. Sajjan Liberal Vancouver South, BC
Mr. Chair, I respectfully completely disagree with the member's assertions there. To say that I don't feel the urgency.... I feel the urgency.
I've seen the famine that takes place on the ground. I've seen the positive impact that humanitarian aid can deliver. One thing that I can assure you is that we have acted and we'll continue to act very quickly to make sure that humanitarian support gets there, even as we work through this—
7:05 p.m.
NDP
Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC
To correct the minister, it's not me; it's the witnesses who have made that assertion.
7:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sukh Dhaliwal
—I will come back to you in the next....
Mr. Chong, please go ahead for your five-minute round. You'll be followed by Madame Zahid and Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe for two and a half minutes, and then Madame Kwan, we'll come to you after that for two and half minutes.
Mr. Chong, please go ahead for five minutes.
7:05 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Chong Conservative Wellington—Halton Hills, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
The minister said that planning for the evacuation from Kabul began when Global Affairs requested it of the department and the Canadian Armed Forces on April 1. When was that plan completed?