Agriculture Committee on March 13th, 2008

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

I call this meeting to order.

Today we have an order in council appointment before us. Elwin Hermanson has been appointed to the position of chief commissioner of the Canadian Grain Commission.

Welcome, Elwin. It's good to see you.

This is according to Standing Orders 110 and 111. I just want to read into the record off the start, just so we know what the rules are here today, out of Marleau and Montpetit, starting on page 863 on line 447:

The obligation of a witness to answer all questions put by the committee must be balanced against the role that public servants play in providing confidential advice to their Ministers. The role of the public servant has traditionally been viewed in relation to the implementation and administration of government policy, rather than the determination of what that policy should be. Consequently, public servants have been excused from commenting on the policy decisions made by the government. In addition, committees will ordinarily accept the reasons that a public servant gives for declining to answer a specific question or series of questions which involve the giving of a legal opinion, or which may be perceived as a conflict with the witness' responsibility to the Minister, or which is outside of their own area of responsibility or which might affect business transactions.

[...]

Further, when we get to questioning:

...the committee may call the appointee or nominee to appear before it...to answer questions respecting his or her qualifications and competence to perform the duties of the post to which he or she has been appointed or nominated.

[...]

This is on page 876 now:

The scope of a committee's examination of Order-in-Council appointees or nominees is strictly limited to the qualifications and competence to perform the duties of the post. Questioning by members of the committee may be interrupted by the Chair, if it attempts to deal with matters considered irrelevant to the committee's inquiry. Among the areas usually considered to be outside the scope of the committee's study are the political affiliation of the appointee or nominee, contributions to political parties and the nature of the nomination process itself. Any question may be permitted if it can be shown that it relates directly to the appointee's or nominee's ability to do the job. A committee has no power to revoke an appointment or nomination and may only report that they have examined the appointee or nominee and give their judgement as to whether the candidate has the qualifications and competence to perform the duties of the post to which he or she has been appointed or nominated.

I just wanted to make sure we have that on the record and we know what rules we are playing by for today.

With that, I invite Mr. Hermanson to provide his opening comments. Please keep it to less than 10 minutes.

On a point of order, Mr. Easter.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

Mr. Chair, in terms of what you've read out, could we ask the clerk to provide that to us? Well, I suppose it will be in the minutes, so it will be fine that way for future reference.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

It's in the minutes for future reference.

I'll just remind you, it starts on page 863-864 of Marleau and Montpetit, and then from 876-877.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

I just haven't made that stuff my bedtime reading yet, Mr. Chairman. I know Brian has.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Okay.

Mr. Hermanson, please.

[Elwin Hermanson, Chief Commissioner, Canadian Grain Commission]

Good morning, and thank you, Mr. Chairman.

It brings back some memories, and I would say good memories, being back in committee. Not too many times have I sat as a witness, although I have sat as a witness before committee in the past. I have sat in the chairs of the honourable members and I found it a very rewarding experience. I feel honoured that I would be asked to appear before your committee this morning.

I have a statement that I believe is less than 10 minutes. To make sure that it is, I'll undertake it right away.

Honourable members, I am pleased to appear before the Standing Committee on Agriculture and Agri-Food today. I understand that the principal reason you have invited me to appear before you today is to discuss my appointment as chief commissioner to the Canadian Grain Commission. I would first like to make a brief statement and then I would be pleased to answer any questions.

To begin, I would like to underline what an honour it is for me to work on behalf of Canadian farmers and Canadians at large as the chief commissioner of the CGC. As Canada's grain industry regulator, the CGC is responsible for Canada's grain quality and quantity assurance systems, grain research, and producer protection. As chief commissioner to the CGC, I am personally committed to these important objectives and to upholding Canada's world-class brand reputation.

As you know, my appointment comes at a time of change and modernization for the CGC, as reflected in Bill C-39, An Act to amend the Canada Grain Act, which was recently introduced in the House of Commons. The CGC needs a strong management and sound guidance to lead it during this period of transformation.

Throughout my career, honourable members, I have displayed strong skills both as a leader and as a manager. I have an extensive background in agribusiness and public service in Canada, with 32 years of farming and elected experience at both the federal and provincial levels. As a farmer, I managed my family farm in Beechy, Saskatchewan, which is a diversified operation producing grains, pulse crops, and oilseeds, and it includes a commercial cow-calf operation. At the federal level, I served as a member of Parliament for the Saskatchewan riding of Kindersley--Lloydminster from 1993 to 1997. During that time I served on the same committee as you represent today, the Standing Committee on Agriculture and Agri-Food. I also demonstrated my leadership skills participating on the steering subcommittee and working as the leader of the official opposition from 1999 to 2004 in the Saskatchewan legislature.

Throughout my career, one of my priorities was the development and the communication of agricultural policy. I'm proud to say that my political success was founded upon my knowledge of the agriculture sector. In fact, my years spent in public service have depended on strong support from farm communities and farm families. I accepted the position of chief commissioner to the CGC because of my profound desire to serve Canadian farmers and Canadians generally.

As I mentioned earlier, my appointment as chief commissioner comes at a time of change and modernization for the organization. I must say it's an exciting time to be grain farming. I recognize that it's also an equally difficult time in the livestock sector. The Canadian Cattlemen's Association is in town. I've run into some of them, and we certainly feel for the economic pressures they're feeling now. But commodity prices are at an all-time high for cereal grains, and oilseed producers are finally beginning to reap the benefits of what they sow.

While Canadian farmers continue to serve traditional export markets, new opportunities are becoming available. Canadian grain is increasingly marketed to niche markets and domestic value-added enterprises such as livestock and biofuels processing. To sustain this growth, both farmers and the grain industry are seeking more opportunities and a more cost-effective grain handling system.

Many grain sector stakeholders, including farmers, have been requesting updates to the Canada Grain Act for many years. In this context the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food introduced Bill C-39, An Act to amend the Canada Grain Act, to the House of Commons last December. Bill C-39 represents the Government of Canada's vision of a modern CGC, one that is positioned to meet the changing needs of today's grain sector. The government is focused on reducing mandatory regulations and unnecessary costs while maintaining the advantages of Canada's grain quality assurance system.

Honourable members, I understand that while your respective parties have agreed on the need for modernization of the act, they may not all completely agree on the details of that change. The final outcome of a bill must be decided by members of Parliament, and it is the role of the chief commissioner to administer the Canada Grain Act as passed by Parliament. While it is the duty of the CGC to support the government's agenda and policy direction, I will not, nor will the CGC, prejudge the outcome of Parliament's deliberations.

I want to clearly state the commission's principal responsibility is to administer the Canada Grain Act.

The chief commissioner must lead the organization to ensure ongoing protection for producers and Canada's reputation for high-quality grains and must be supportive of the government's agenda. This leads me to discuss recent criticism of an op-ed article I produced for two different western Canadian publications.

First, I would like to clarify that the op-ed article was intended as a personal introduction to farmers and the grain industry in my new role as the chief commissioner of the CGC. Second, my objective was to reassure producers, grain industry stakeholders, and customers of Canadian grain that Bill C-39 will not weaken the grain quality assurance system. Third, farmers need to be reassured that producers will continue to be protected under the Canada Grain Act.

Honourable members, before I respond to your questions, I also wish to address one final issue, the CGC memo to employees. The CGC memo has been referred to as a government gag order in both the media and in the House of Commons. There is no government gag order, and the allegations of political involvement are unfounded.

No one in the office of the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food or in the Prime Minister's Office requested that CGC management issue this memo. It is an internal document that was produced by the CGC senior management on its own in response to employee questions about political activities regarding Bill C-39.

The CGC directive to employees regarding their political activities is based on the Values and Ethics Code for the Public Service. It states that public servants are free to express their views about the amendments to their members of Parliament as long as they don't publicly criticize the government. The Values and Ethics Code for the Public Service also clearly states that public servants must loyally implement ministerial decisions lawfully taken. I would also like to clarify that this code has been in effect since 2003.

In closing, honourable members, it is clear that the CGC is facing an exciting period of modernization and change. I also wish to reiterate that it is the CGC's duty to support the government's agenda and policy direction. I am confident that the integrity of the grain quality assurance system and the reliability of Canadian grain exports will be maintained; in fact, I'm committed to that outcome.

Finally, it's with a deep sense of pride in this 96-year-old institution that I assume the position of chief commissioner to the CGC. I look forward to serving farmers and all Canadians in my new position.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Thank you, Mr. Hermanson.

We're going to kick off with seven-minute rounds.

Mr. Easter, you're up first.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Elwin, you've had an interesting career since you first came here with the Reform Party in 1993. You had strong opinions then, and there's certainly nothing wrong with that, but you are in a different position now. A number of rumours are going on out there, and I'd like to clear them up before I get into the meat of the issue.

The current minister was your campaign manager in 1993, wasn't he?

[Elwin Hermanson]

Yes.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Again, I have to remind Mr. Easter that according to the rules in Marleau and Montpetit, one of the areas considered to be outside the scope of the committee is the political affiliation of the appointee or nominee.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

Mr. Chair, this government has said there'd be absolutely no patronage. There were going to be committees to look at these appointments. I see this as a fair question.

I have no problem if Mr. Ritz was Elwin's campaign manager; it doesn't deny him qualifications. I just want to know what the connection is.

But you're disallowing the question.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Before I entertain that, Mr. Lauzon, you have a point of order?

[Guy Lauzon, Conservative, Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON]

I think you've made a decision on this issue and I think Mr. Easter should respect that.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

I respect the decision.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

There is a decision, and for the witness's benefit, you don't have to respond to any comments that are outside the scope of our examination of you today, and definitely anything to do with political affiliation is outside that scope, as has been described by the rules.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

You won't allow this either, I guess, Mr. Chair, but I understand that Mr. Ritz also worked as a constituency assistant for Mr. Hermanson, I believe, and did a good job.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Mr. Miller, on a point of order.

[Larry Miller, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

It comes under the rules as well. He even said it; he admitted it before he said it, and he still said it. It's not allowable, but he got it on the record.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Mr. Lauzon.

[Guy Lauzon, Conservative, Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON]

Mr. Chairman, I think there comes a point where you're going to have to make a decision as to whether Mr. Easter is—

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Mr. Easter is fine. I'll let him burn up his time in any way he sees fit, but his questions have to relate to the competence of the appointee.

I'd ask that you direct your questions that way, Wayne.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

Elwin, I was looking through some of the statements you've made since 1993. You will actually, I think, find this one kind of funny, because I find myself asking the same questions as you were asking when you were in my position here.

I was looking back to November 21, 1995, when you were asking questions on the Canadian Wheat Board. I'll quote you: “It seems that the minister fears allowing producers the right to determine how they market wheat and barley.” We're having that same problem today, that the minister won't allow a vote on wheat and barley marketing.

I guess, before I get into the CGC, in your current capacity, do you have any views on the Canadian Wheat Board, or is that virtually neutral?

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Again, Mr. Hermanson, you don't have to respond to that, because you don't, as an appointee of the government, have any influence over the direction of the Canadian Wheat Board.

Again, it's outside of the scope of the study we're doing today, Mr. Easter. I ask that you get pointed to the qualifications as they relate to the Canadian Grain Commission.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

All right, Mr. Chair.

On page 6 of the act, it basically defines the duties of the chief commissioner of the Canadian Grain Commission. You did mention in your opening remarks the issue of the op-ed piece. In all honesty, having been a politician for so many years, I can understand your expressing your point of view. But in the role of chief commissioner of the Canadian Grain Commission, do you think now it was a mistake to write that opinion piece?

[Elwin Hermanson]

Thank you, Mr. Easter.

I'm glad I finally get to say something here. I was getting worried that I wasn't going to be able to—