Evidence of meeting #16 for Agriculture and Agri-Food in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was farmers.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Gregory Aziz  Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, National Steel Car Limited
Michael Hugh Nicholson  Executive Vice-President, Marketing, Sales and Quality, National Steel Car Limited
Marion Wrobel  Vice-President, Policy and Operations, Canadian Bankers Association
Greg Stewart  President and Chief Executive Officer, Farm Credit Canada
Bertrand Montel  Market Segment Manager, Agriculture, National Bank, Canadian Bankers Association
David Rinneard  National Manager, Agriculture, BMO Bank of Montreal, Canadian Bankers Association
Peter Brown  Director, Agriculture, Scotiabank, Canadian Bankers Association
Lyndon Carlson  Senior Vice-President, Marketing, Farm Credit Canada
George Da Pont  President, Canadian Food Inspection Agency

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

Gerry Ritz Conservative Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK

On the apple tariff question, Alex, this was done for a processor in Quebec. He had searched Canada and couldn't find enough apples for juicing. So there was a lowering of the tariff on apples brought in specifically for that processor. We have had discussions, I understand from the trade side. Finance makes the actual final call on that, but there are discussions with Industry before that happens as to the quantity and where it's going and so on.

5:10 p.m.

NDP

Alex Atamanenko NDP British Columbia Southern Interior, BC

So it was specifically for that processor?

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

Gerry Ritz Conservative Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK

As far as I know, it was.

On the horse meat side, a lot of the “problems” or situations we face in Canada will be rectified very shortly. The Americans have just reinstated the ability to do horse slaughter in the U.S., and that will stop that flow of 50,000 to 60,000, or whatever the number you gave was. It varies each year.

Horse slaughter is a valuable operation in this country. Having raised horses, I can tell you there are times that slaughter is the only alternative. Rather than letting a horse be mistreated or something, sometimes that's the more humane way to do it. It is a legitimate, viable business in this country, which exports predominantly into the European market. I can assure you that very few horses are “buted”, as you call it. If they come off the racetrack, it basically desensitizes them to running.

I raised predominantly ranch horses and I never had it. Most ranchers don't use phenylbutazone, so most of those horses going through are not....

In PMU operations, the offspring are sometimes sent to a slaughter facility. You mentioned being under six months. A lot of that happens if they're not up to a bloodline or something saleable. They'll be sent to a slaughter facility, but they're not buted. So I think that argument's a little bit overblown.

The regulations are quite strict here in Canada, but I'll let George fill you in on that.

December 1st, 2011 / 5:10 p.m.

George Da Pont President, Canadian Food Inspection Agency

Thank you very much.

I will respond in detail to your letter, but as you've already noted, last year we implemented new procedures under which horses coming for slaughter have to be certified as not having had any medications in the previous six months. In addition, we do regular testing on the testing methodologies and some of the other details. I'll send that in response to your letter.

5:10 p.m.

NDP

Alex Atamanenko NDP British Columbia Southern Interior, BC

Thank you.

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Larry Miller

You just have about 30 seconds.

Ms. Raynault, there's going to be another five-minute round, and I have nobody in there. Do you want to use the 30 seconds and I'll pencil you in for the next five minutes after that? That doesn't leave you a lot of time.

5:10 p.m.

NDP

Francine Raynault NDP Joliette, QC

Perhaps in the next five-minute round.

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Larry Miller

If you would prefer, I'll just give you a little extra time on the five minutes. Does that sound fair?

5:10 p.m.

NDP

Francine Raynault NDP Joliette, QC

Yes.

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Larry Miller

You'll get almost six minutes. I'll put it that way.

We'll now move to Mr. Lemieux for five minutes.

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Lemieux Conservative Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON

Mr. Chair, thank you very much.

Thank you for being here on such short notice, Minister. As I was telling the opposition colleagues just last week, that's the excellent service they've come to expect from the government. So it's good to have you here.

I want to talk a bit about trade. I know you follow the proceedings of this committee. To the proceedings you have followed, I'd like to add comments of farmers who really appreciate the extent to which you go to open up international borders to our farmers and the tremendous success you've had, both in the context of free trade agreements and also just in terms of getting the border open to pork and beef, pulse crops, etc., in other countries.

I want to focus in on the trans-Pacific partnership. It's engendered a lot of discussion. I think it's very good for farmers, particularly when the U.S. is part of this. For example, what I've been explaining is that if we're not at the table and the U.S. is and that goes through, the U.S. farmers win. Our farmers are then disadvantaged because they're not part of that trade deal; our farmers lose. So it's important that we're at the table, but of course it's raised concerns regarding supply management.

Mr. Allen raised that point as well, regarding supply management. He had a few questions on it. The opposition has been saying it's on the table, it's going to be negotiated away, it's going to be compromised.

Minister, you mentioned in your opening remarks that you put in place or you helped put in place, I think, nine other trade agreements with countries. In terms of those, have you ever compromised supply management? Can you comment on the TPP, this table that we're now sitting at in terms of trade negotiations and supply management?

5:15 p.m.

Conservative

Gerry Ritz Conservative Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK

The short answer, Mr. Lemieux, is no, we have not compromised supply management, nor do we ever intend to. We see it as a valuable part of our agricultural system and actually a very valuable asset to Canadian consumers. When you look at some of the problems that have been had in those supply managed goods around the rest of the world, we haven't had that in Canada, simply because our supply managed families have had the wherewithal, a good solid bottom line, to put in the biosecurity and the food safety right from the farm gate on through. They've done a tremendous job, and they're leading the world actually with traceability and the ability to have that biosecurity in place through to the processors.

We've got a number of major world-class processors moving to Canada to take advantage of our dairy. Danone yoghurt in Quebec is another one now looking at Ontario, doing a test run, simply to make use of the quality consistency of our milk. So we look at that as a real bonus.

I know there are a lot of folks...and I laugh at or with my good friend Garth Whyte at the restaurant association, always complaining about the cost of milk. But at the same time, he doesn't compare a restaurant meal in Canada to a restaurant meal in the U.S. There is quite a discrepancy there too. I'll be happy to point that out to him the next time I sit down with him.

On the TPP, the changes, what drew us in, of course, was more the change that Japan was interested than the U.S. We already have good open trade with the U.S., called NAFTA, and of course we're WTO partners as well, but with Japan now thinking in terms of the TPP, it's a lot more interesting to us to add countries like that into a free trade group. Certainly we'd work with it bilaterally too should it decide the TPP is not to its liking. It's exploring it, as are we.

The aggressiveness that is required to join the TPP has been blunted to a certain extent. As I said to Mr. Allen, the U.S. has some areas that it is defensive on; so does Japan, and for that matter Australia, which is a good solid trading partner, but there are times that even it doesn't honour science and its trade rules. It is still holding our beef out, after 2003.

So there is a lot of work to be done all over the world. I would say that we as a government would not have had the success we do without industry coming along with us. This is a complete team that descends on a country, and we don't leave until we get a good amount of movement on what we're doing.

The Market Access Secretariat has been the quarterback for a lot of that. Fred Gorrell and his team have just done a tremendous service. Then you look at the great work done by embassies around the world—for example, David Mulroney in China. I could just go on and on about the great work our embassies do. We now have a CFIA scientist on the ground in Beijing and another one in Moscow, where we've had some problems on certificates and so on. We actually have personnel now dedicated to Ag Canada and to CFIA right in those major trading spots, and that's helped a lot.

5:15 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Lemieux Conservative Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON

Good.

5:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Larry Miller

There are just 10 seconds.

5:15 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Lemieux Conservative Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON

Let me just ask one more quick question about supply management. Our government had put in place article 28 and also the cheese compositional standards. Can you just comment on feedback you've received?

5:15 p.m.

Conservative

Gerry Ritz Conservative Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK

Special safeguard.

5:15 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Lemieux Conservative Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON

Special safeguard as well.

Can you comment on what you've heard from the dairy industry regarding those issues?

5:15 p.m.

Conservative

Gerry Ritz Conservative Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK

They're buoyed by that. A lot of political parties talk the talk, but we're the only ones who have walked the walk.

5:20 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Larry Miller

Ms. Raynault, five and a half minutes.

5:20 p.m.

NDP

Francine Raynault NDP Joliette, QC

Thank you. I am going to share my time with Mr. Rousseau.

5:20 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Larry Miller

That's your prerogative.

5:20 p.m.

NDP

Francine Raynault NDP Joliette, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

A lot has been written in the press about the government always saying that it is in favour of keeping supply management for milk, poultry and eggs. But, at the UPA congress, Mr. Paradis stated that the government wants to adopt a flexible and pragmatic approach that will meet the needs of producers. In the name of this alleged flexibility, would the government be ready to scrap the supply management system in order to meet the requirements of international free trade treaties?

5:20 p.m.

Conservative

Gerry Ritz Conservative Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK

We have said all along that we'll never trade off supply management. We see it as a very valuable part of our agricultural sector. As I said, it's very valuable to consumers too, in that they have access to top quality, consistent supply. We see it as a very valuable additive to our overall agricultural sector.

5:20 p.m.

NDP

Francine Raynault NDP Joliette, QC

Thank you.

5:20 p.m.

NDP

Jean Rousseau NDP Compton—Stanstead, QC

Since the committee began its work, we have often heard witnesses say that Canada has been late in supporting farmers who are exploring new markets, such as organic farming, or new production methods, which are moving forward because of immigration. We have new markets such as lamb and veal or different kinds of market garden products. So maybe I am reading the budget wrongly, but I do not seem to see any allocations for commercializing and growing those markets. Can you explain the department's strategy in that regard?