Evidence of meeting #45 for Agriculture and Agri-Food in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was research.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Pierre Corriveau  Assistant Deputy Minister, Corporate Management Branch, Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food
Siddika Mithani  Assistant Deputy Minister, Science and Technology Branch, Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food
Tina Namiesniowski  Assistant Deputy Minister, Programs Branch, Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food
Greg Meredith  Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic Policy Branch, Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food
Frédéric Seppey  Acting Assistant Deputy Minister, Market and Industry Services Branch, Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food

11:25 a.m.

Conservative

Gerry Ritz Conservative Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK

Let me start with RMP. We've always been very clear we're not going to fund at a federal level anything new like RMP, because it's countervailable. The national cattlemen's association actually has come out with very good statements—and I can get those for you—saying, don't do this, it's going to lead to countervail, especially with the U.S. looking for a pushback on COOL.

When it comes to the Ontario livestock, I had the same meeting with Dan Darling and his guys. The problem isn't with us and the changes at AgriStability. Everybody told us for years that this is not bankable, it's not predictable, and to do something better, so we did. We made some changes to AgriStability to allow us to bring forward an insurance program for livestock, and Ontario has not picked that up. That's the problem. If they want to actually do some lobbying, it would probably be best directed at the Ontario government, which has not implemented the livestock insurance side of it and which of course would give them that bankability and predictability that they're looking for.

11:25 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Bev Shipley

Thank you very much, Minister, and Mr. Easter.

We'll now move to Mr. Dreeshen, for five minutes, please.

11:25 a.m.

Conservative

Earl Dreeshen Conservative Red Deer, AB

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for being here.

I have just a quick comment on CETA. As we had spoken before, I thank you, as well as Minister Fast and the Prime Minister for getting this off the ground and making sure that it's working well. I did have an opportunity to travel this summer to London with the minister and the Prime Minister, and we had an opportunity to speak with producers, manufacturers, and distributors, and to see how excited they are about this agreement. They're eagerly awaiting when this is going to come into effect. I know that farmers in my riding, as well, are certainly looking forward to these new opportunities.

In the supplementals, of course, we are talking about the Canadian Wheat Board. Part of this, Minister, as we talk about this, involves the transition costs of $3 million as it becomes a voluntary grain-marketing organization. Of course, this is very consistent with the approach you took to this committee a few years ago to front-end load the transition costs for the Canadian Wheat Board in these first couple of years of marketing freedom and to reduce expenditures.

Again, as a farmer, I know from our own family, my father had freedom wheat that he planted when he first started farming, and it was not his after that crop came off. It was certainly something special to be able to see this transition. But we're seeing the Canadian Wheat Board purchasing physical assets, such as grain terminals throughout Canada, and it's increasing its capacity to remain a vibrant marketing option to farmers. All in all, the transition of the Canadian Wheat Board to a private market has been very positive. It's working well, despite what some of the naysayers have said.

So, Minister, I'm just wondering if you could comment and inform the committee on how the transition of the Canadian Wheat Board to the open market is working out for farmers, as our government had promised farmers that it would.

11:25 a.m.

Conservative

Gerry Ritz Conservative Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK

The pivot point came in December of 2011 when we passed a piece of legislation allowing this to happen at the beginning of the crop year in 2012. Since that time the new CWB has aggressively pursued market share in western Canada as well as the rest of Canada. It has purchased facilities to give it port access in Thunder Bay. It continues to work towards a growing footprint across western Canada with four new builds slated this year—the concrete is up for one and the other one will be started in the spring. As it moves to commercialize what it has and its ability, the Rolodex that it has, and so on, this is not a privatization as much as it's a capitalization. It is looking for a working partner. The list is now short as it works with a few entities that will have the capacity to partner with it and increase its footprint.

The problem we had initially was that the assets, or supposed assets, of the old single-desk board were heavily leveraged, as you will know if you go back through a compilation of.... This is one of the final pieces, this $3 million transferred to the board itself to get them back to a point of zero, where they had the ability to grow their footprint. Other than that, they were heavily indebted, building the railcars. Even the boats they had ordered weren't paid for. There was a deposit that had long been eaten up, so there was a need to make sure that the pension was secure and the payouts were there for people. The building was brought back to zero. All those types of things needed to be done in order for the Wheat Board to survive.

I know we're facing a couple of lawsuits where supposedly these assets were garnered, but anyone who's honest and from the old board of directors who knew the financial status of the board, would have to recognize the fact that there was no asset. It was all heavily leveraged. As the board sought to commercialize, it needed some help to get back to zero so it had a vibrancy, the ability to move forward. We've done that as a government. We're happy to do that. We see it out there as a viable alternative, as it continues to grow.

11:30 a.m.

Conservative

Earl Dreeshen Conservative Red Deer, AB

Just quickly then, as far as the department is concerned, it's been well managed and you're adhering to a tight budget, but you're also making sure that taxpayers' dollars are being spent properly.

Could you maybe comment on reinvestment of royalties from intellectual property? I know that's one of the items we have in the supplementary estimates. We're seeking access to $7.6 million in vote 1. I wonder if you could make a quick comment on that and perhaps some of my colleagues will....

11:30 a.m.

Conservative

Gerry Ritz Conservative Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK

Well I would defer to some of the experts on that, but I can tell you that in the last short time, this government, department by department, has been refocusing and re-energizing. Of course, agriculture is not immune. As we grow, we also have to refocus our efforts. Our efforts have been working with industry on research, on results-based research, not just research for the sake of research. We want to make sure we're delivering what industry is wanting for.

To that end, Bill C-18 is very timely, very important to continue to build what industry is needing to compete with other marketing countries around the world. We have streamlined our operations and our organizations to the point where everything is now focused on getting market access, maintaining those trade corridors, and developing the products. One of the initiatives we've undertaken, which is talked about in there too, is the centre of excellence for beef in Calgary. It's very important that we start to recognize and analyze so that we sell what an import country wants, not what we have. We have to learn to recut our beef, to recut our pork, to blend our grains, and so on like that, and offer what is being asked for, not just what we grow and have.

11:30 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Bev Shipley

Thank you very much, Mr. Dreeshen and Mr. Minister.

We'll now move to Mr. Allen for five minutes, please.

11:30 a.m.

NDP

Malcolm Allen NDP Welland, ON

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for being here. It's always a joy to be with you, but....

I would never suggest to use the “but” word. I try to sit on mine.

The temporary foreign worker program has been talked about on the processing side of things. I'm sure you've had the same meetings with the same people I have had. I understand it's not wholly your program. The agricultural sector worker program in my neck of the woods, as you well know, has been in existence for a long time in the tender fruit industry and the wine industry. It doesn't look the same as a caregiver program. I can tell you from personal experience that my father brought his family to this country because he got landed citizenship to bring a set of skills he had to build ships in this country, but for this particular program, temporary foreign workers in the agricultural sector—if we can loosely term it that way—don't get that same privilege.

I would suggest, sir, that perhaps one of the things you can take back to your colleagues is that they ought to look at the 1960s.

You know, going back to the future sometimes means going back to the past, because that's how people brought skills to this country, including my father and his family, which included me, and that actually enabled folks to come here. We showed up on these shores with a lovely little blue card that said we were landed immigrants, which gave us certain rights and privileges and obviously obligations. We were thankful for that, by the way, at the time.

Perhaps we should look to that program again when it comes to the processing sector. Many of the sector members I've spoken to, including the Canadian Meat Council, have said to me that's what they'd rather see, because they're in a cycle of retraining over and over again, even if the program works. Every two years, they're out and there are new ones, and that just doesn't make any sense I think. So maybe...that's just a suggestion.

So there was my “but”.

11:30 a.m.

Conservative

Gerry Ritz Conservative Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK

Do you want me to respond to that?

11:30 a.m.

NDP

Malcolm Allen NDP Welland, ON

Sure. Go ahead.

11:30 a.m.

Conservative

Gerry Ritz Conservative Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK

You actually make the point that the temporary foreign worker system is a revolving door and it's not serving industry right. That's one of the reasons that changes are imminent. For the agricultural low-skilled side.... There are three separate entry points for temporary foreign workers, as well as the express entry points for the provinces and provincial nominee programs in which you can pick up skills. Your father came with shipbuilding skills. Those are still out there and still available.

Now we've actually changed the queue so that the province of record can go into those 800,000 names that the Liberal legacy left us and they can pick out welders and pull them to the front of the queue. We used to have to take them in order, but we made changes so that's no longer the premise.

We're in negotiations with the provinces now as to how we expand—and I'm talking numbers of people—on the express entry and on the provincial nominee programs in order for the provinces to recognize what they need and to bring those people in. It's less prescriptive and it's far less arbitrary than it was before. In the mid-term and long-term, you'll end up with exactly what you're asking for. But to begin to make the changes, you have to stop doing what you're doing.

That was the beginning of the changes to the temporary foreign worker program. The low-skilled numbers have been held for agriculture. We've added a couple of other entries to what we consider low-skilled. At the same time, we're working with the provinces to develop the skill sets that will be required for the agricultural industry going forward, because agriculture today is not what it was five years ago, 10 years ago, or 20 years ago.

11:35 a.m.

NDP

Malcolm Allen NDP Welland, ON

I think we would all agree to that. The only difficulty you'll face, quite frankly, you and the provinces—I don't mean you specifically, but your government—is that if you go back and read the chapter from the Auditor General's report of the spring on statistics and Statistics Canada, you find out you don't actually know the information. The Auditor General is quite clear. You have no idea whereabouts these jobs are, what the needs are, and that came from Statistics Canada.

11:35 a.m.

Conservative

Gerry Ritz Conservative Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK

Well, that's the partnership with the provinces. The Auditor General looks at the federal only. He doesn't look at the oversight into the provinces. They're the ones. They're the thermometers—

11:35 a.m.

NDP

Malcolm Allen NDP Welland, ON

Mr. Minister, I am simply telling you what the Auditor General's report said.

11:35 a.m.

Conservative

Gerry Ritz Conservative Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK

Yes.

11:35 a.m.

NDP

Malcolm Allen NDP Welland, ON

I'm not giving you Malcolm Allen's opinion.

11:35 a.m.

Conservative

Gerry Ritz Conservative Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK

Okay.

11:35 a.m.

NDP

Malcolm Allen NDP Welland, ON

I'm suggesting to you that your department should go back and read the Auditor General's report of the spring on Statistics Canada, which is Canadian statistics. The bottom line is that nobody really knows for sure where they are. It's pretty hard to match them if you don't know where they are. You just know they're here somewhere.

But we'll leave that as it may. Let's go back to a year ago. According to the weather forecaster, it's going to be colder this year than last year, they say, on average across this country.

11:35 a.m.

Conservative

Gerry Ritz Conservative Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK

Really?

11:35 a.m.

NDP

Malcolm Allen NDP Welland, ON

That's the latest forecast.

11:35 a.m.

Conservative

Gerry Ritz Conservative Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK

Farmers' Almanac says warmer but more snow.

11:35 a.m.

NDP

Malcolm Allen NDP Welland, ON

Well, there you go. It depends which one you want to believe. I'm not sure who's more believable—

11:35 a.m.

Conservative

Gerry Ritz Conservative Battlefords—Lloydminster, SK

I tend to go with Farmers' Almanac.

11:35 a.m.

NDP

Malcolm Allen NDP Welland, ON

—this government or the weatherman, but I have my choices some days as to which one I want to take.

The bottom line is that if indeed it is as cold, not necessarily colder but as cold as last year, the plans in place to deal with what happened last year.... Now, we don't have the bumper crop, agreed, but we still have a leftover one. We know what happened last year, so I have two questions.

One, is there a plan in place for that? As well, there were indications earlier on, months ago now, that the rail companies were being fined. It seems to have disappeared. Is that still an ongoing issue? Is the fine applied? Has it been levied? Or has it all just been absolved because, well, maybe we shouldn't have fined them in the first place?

11:35 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Bev Shipley

Mr. Allen's time is up, so I will ask for a short answer, please.