Agriculture Committee on Sept. 27th, 2018

[Ron Bonnett]

As I said, we'd support the idea of a centre of excellence and mental health, with an agricultural focus, again, pulling that information together. There are going to be shared jurisdictions between federal, provincial and municipal governments that provide services.

The other thing we are doing is working with Canadian crisis centres to take a look at special training for people on crisis hotlines that would be operated nationally, on a 24-7 basis. Those people would have specific training on agriculture. I think one of the big concerns with some of the existing crisis lines is that you call in, and as we heard in the previous presentation, they advise you to just go back to work. Well, you have a crop in the field or you have cattle to feed. You have all of these things to do. You just can't go back and leave things alone. You have to deal with them. So having trained people on those crisis lines, I think, would be a good start. If we could do that nationally and have it available in both languages, and if we do the promotion on it, then I think people would know there's a place where they can actually get some help.

One of the things we have to look at is the broad interventions that have to take place. The idea is to get someplace before you reach the point of suicide, so make whatever interventions are needed, whether it's financial assistance, whether it's just the ability to communicate or things like that, so that you don't get to the point of suicide.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

That's fine.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Thank you, Mr. Berthold.

Mr. Drouin, you now have six minutes.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses who are here.

It's a subject that I think is a non-partisan issue. It's been a long time coming and we do need to talk about it.

Mr. Bonnett, I was just at a local Ontario Federation of Agriculture meeting in my riding. I know that the OFA is starting to talk about it, and I'm assuming that's because of the leadership of the Canadian Federation of Agriculture.

I know you've had a symposium. What have you identified as the key factors to move forward on this? How would the federal government assist either the CFA or other organizations to move ahead with addressing mental health?

[Ron Bonnett]

One of the key factors is the need for coordination. I was sitting here this morning when I heard about the sentinel program. That's an extremely good example out of Quebec. Are there ways it can be replicated in other provinces? It's all about coordination.

Ms. Kelly also mentioned in her presentation the need for research. Is there a need for research specifically looking at agriculture? That leads into the call for a centre of agricultural excellence, a national centre, and also to improving the crisis hotlines.

Those are some of the things that can be done.

The other thing that might be an opportunity is to have some ongoing symposiums for caregivers so they can gain a better understanding of what's working, as well. It's very easy to have a conversation with organizations about some of the needs, but unless you can involve some of the caregivers in that discussion, it's not going to help at the ground level.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Great. Thank you.

Ms. Kelly, you've raised a lot of important points, one about language. Are you talking to farmers about stigma? “Hey, I think I need some help” and “Where do I go if I need some help?” Have you had those conversations with other farmers, and what are they saying in terms of the crisis line? Does it respond? Is that a connector to them, or do they say, “Well, I'd like to talk to somebody who is specialized in that”?

[Lesley Kelly]

First, when they come to me and ask for help, I give them kudos. Asking for help is the hardest thing they can do, and they're courageous for doing it.

What I'm hearing from a lot of producers is that they need help but they don't know where to go. At Do More, we're trying to coordinate and find more local and regional resources for them. Right now we're at a provincial scale. On our website, we have provincial areas. A producer who has livestock can't drive four or five hours to get help. That is definitely a huge barrier.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

When we talk about isolation, have you noticed a difference between younger farmers and their fathers, for instance? The younger farmers are probably on social media, but it is some form of isolation, as well—thinking that they're connected but they may not be connected. Have you noticed that difference between the two generations?

[Lesley Kelly]

Well, I was under the notion, when we first started that, that the younger generation, people like me, would be more open to starting this conversation, but it's been the older generation that's said, “This is the time to start talking about this. Thank you for opening that door wide open.” We were at an event where we had a panel about mental health, and it was the older generation who stood up first. One individual stood up and told us he didn't have enough fingers on his hands to count how many farmers he'd lost to suicide. That was the most impactful thing anyone has ever said to me. That was at the onset of when we started our discussions on mental health.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

You spoke about culture. Do you find that farmers are receptive to changing that culture?

[Lesley Kelly]

Five years ago, I would say, it was maybe not so much, but now, yes, we've identified that we are in crisis and that we need as much help as we can. More producers are even going to mainstream media and sharing their story to get more help.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Do you think the federal government should start a campaign of some sort to fight that stigma, through the Canadian Mental Health Association or whatnot, for organizations such as yours?

[Lesley Kelly]

Are you referring to a marketing campaign or an advertising campaign to help?

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Yes.

[Lesley Kelly]

Our campaign is starting in the fall, but I really feel that we need to get our ducks in a row before more awareness or more marketing campaigns can be done. If people notice that someone they know needs help, or that they themselves need help, then we have to direct them to the right resources. If they have a bad experience with the resource, that can inhibit them from seeking more help.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

That's very true. I think that's what Dr. Jones-Bitton said before, that the first connection is extremely important.

[Lesley Kelly]

Yes.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

I'm running out of time. I only have 10 seconds left, and I don't want to ask you a question that you can't answer in 10 seconds.

Thank you very much for your time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Thank you, Mr. Drouin.

Mr. MacGregor, you have six minutes.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

Ms. Kelly, perhaps I can start with you. First of all, I think what you're doing is amazing. The work you're doing is really important. I know it's been a tough journey, but I think it's very valued.

There are other professions where that kind of culture and stigma exists. Our veterans come to mind, as do the military and first responders. In my short tenure as a member of Parliament, I've met with a number of veterans, active service personnel, and first responders. They have successfully initiated a culture shift within those professions. PTSD is not something that's whispered about in the corridors anymore. It's actively talked about. I have a number of personal friends who serve as first responders. Being first on the scene, witnessing a motor vehicle accident, those kinds of things weigh down on you.

With the work you're currently engaged in, have you learned any best practices from other organizations in terms of how they have dealt with this issue of mental health and the stigma, the tough “go it alone” approach and so on, that you can apply to farmers?

[Lesley Kelly]

We've been working closely with those in sports. We feel that sports is also really relatable. We have found that starting at the grassroots in talking has been huge in creating that culture shift. It can't come from the coaches or the leaders. It has to come from individuals, those who are viewed among peers as being the leaders, speaking up.

That's what we found, especially in sports. Having them talk about it and be there to encourage others to share their story has been huge in creating that shift.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

When we started this study in June, one of our first witnesses was from Farm Credit Canada. They talked about some of the programs they're doing and just the efforts they're making to reach out to farmers. Do you have any comments on what Farm Credit Canada is currently doing and on anything we should be expanding that is working really well from the federal government's perspective?

[Lesley Kelly]

Farm Credit Canada has been a huge partner for us, not only in support through funding but also with the resource of time. They helped us to build our website and stuff like that.

They partnered with us on our community fund. It was a pilot to bring mental health first aid to communities throughout Canada. We were hoping that we would get 10 to 12 applications. We now have more than 80. That just shows the need and the want. This has totally gone beyond all our expectations. We hope that more partners, more support, can be attributed to getting mental health first aid to our producers.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you very much for that.

Mr. Bonnett, if I can turn to you, one of the greatest stresses is financial in nature. Right now we have a situation evolving with Canada's pork producers, a consequence of the America-China tariff war. The prices of pork have dropped considerably. I know there are a number of producers who have given up on their operation. You can only imagine the amount of stress they're going through.

We have a case in point happening right now. Can you talk to me about what is currently going on for our pork producers, what we learned from this current situation and how we apply this study?

[Ron Bonnett]

Getting into the whole financial discussion, even my own case, it was finances that really started me down the road to stress. Pork producers and some of our grain producers are seeing price drops now. It's the side result of what's happening with the trade wars. We are actually actively working right now on looking at our business risk management programs to try to ensure we have effective risk management programs in place. The government has agreed to a review over the next year to really take a look at it. One of the things we want to identify is what is different now from the way it used to be. Market volatility, I think, is one of the things that is really cropping up now more and more as some of these trade agreements go into place.

You mentioned the financial stress. I think what it does do is that it raises the question of how we ensure that we have proper training in place for our finances, like farm credit or the banks. Do they have training to identify (a), that we may have a problem here that's broader than just a financial problem and it could have implications, and (b), what we put in place to deal with that? Veterinarians who are visiting farms may see animal care issues as a result of the financial stress. It's getting back to that whole idea of how we build the awareness of the issue, but also build the training so that we have appropriate responses. Even me, if I went to a neighbour, I don't know if I'm quite prepared to ask the right questions. I think a lot of work can be done so that we can have the support network from the finance people and from veterinarians, but also from neighbours. That's where I think farm organizations can get involved by having some training programs in place that help us respond, like the sentinel program in Quebec that was mentioned. I think that was one of the key ones.