Evidence of meeting #107 for Agriculture and Agri-Food in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was help.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Pierre-Nicolas Girard  Consultant in Mental Health, Union des producteurs agricoles
Martin Caron  First Vice-President, Union des producteurs agricoles
Alain d'Amours  General Director, Contact Richelieu-Yamaska
Andria Jones-Bitton  Associate Professor, Ontario Veterinary College, University of Guelph
Bev Shipley  Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, CPC
Pierre Beaulieu  Chief Executive Officer, Agriculture, Groupe Leader Plus Inc.
Ron Bonnett  President, Canadian Federation of Agriculture
Lesley Kelly  Co-Founder, Do More Agriculture Foundation

10:25 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Pat Finnigan

Thank you, Mr. Bonnett.

Mr. Peschisolido, you have six minutes.

September 27th, 2018 / 10:25 a.m.

Liberal

Joe Peschisolido Liberal Steveston—Richmond East, BC

Mr. Chair, I'm going to be sharing some of my time with Monsieur Poissant.

Ron, I'd like to begin with you.

You talked about the fragmentation of our system, in providing meaningful help to farmers in need. Can you talk a little bit about what you think the federal role could be in providing services to bridge the gap on this fragmentation?

10:25 a.m.

President, Canadian Federation of Agriculture

Ron Bonnett

I think that would get into identifying what some of the best practices are within the different provinces. Resources are always going to be a question. How do you focus on targeted resources to take that role in identifying best practices and coordinating some of the responses? Then the final thing, I think, is doing some national research on mental health from an agricultural perspective to determine the types of tools that have to be put in place. By doing it at the national level, then that can be shared with all of the provinces so you have a better impact at the farm level.

10:25 a.m.

Liberal

Joe Peschisolido Liberal Steveston—Richmond East, BC

Ron, thank you.

Mr. Beaulieu, can you provide a brief explanation of the four responsibilities of leaders who participate in self-help groups? Can you elaborate on the issues that they address?

10:25 a.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Agriculture, Groupe Leader Plus Inc.

Pierre Beaulieu

Groupe Leader Plus was created three years ago, and it consists of about 150 people in groups of 10 or 12 farmers. Their meetings help them make progress. First, they can learn to speak clearly and express their emotions, and they can ask colleagues about best practices. We can invite specialists to help farmers resolve common issues, such as issues related to funding, human resource management or any other subject.

The meetings help build ties among the 10 to 12 leaders in each group. There's a sense of trust, and everyone can count on the group members' discretion. The leaders are no longer in their family or village. They're among people like them—leaders—and they look forward to getting together. It's always very difficult to reach them one by one, but the fact that they can meet in groups makes them love these meetings, where the attendance rate is almost 100%. We can therefore follow the development of the leaders and their issues. In my groups, it's not uncommon for one or two people to start crying. It's wonderful because they're finally able to express themselves and they feel understood. I think it's an excellent way to achieve efficiency.

If a group member needs to consult a psychologist, we put the member in contact with a psychologist. If a group member needs a financial advisor, or if the entire group needs to talk about a specific topic, we invite a specialist and give the specialist an hour to answer people's questions. After the specialist leaves, the leader or group has obtained the desired expertise and has established a link with the specialist or therapist, which allows for continuity. In addition, the group supports the member who is experiencing difficulties, and the others ask the member how things have been since the last meeting.

I think that everything you're saying is fantastic. There was a great deal of loneliness among SME entrepreneurs, but there's ten times more loneliness among farmers, who have difficulty communicating within their families. We're in the process of addressing the lack of meetings and seeing what other services we could provide. Participants pay a $900 contribution out of their own pocket—the government doesn't cover it—to attend five or six meetings, and they pay it willingly. I can tell you that I have no bad debts to report.

10:25 a.m.

Liberal

Joe Peschisolido Liberal Steveston—Richmond East, BC

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu.

Mr. Poissant, the floor is yours.

10:25 a.m.

Liberal

Jean-Claude Poissant Liberal La Prairie, QC

I want to thank the witnesses who came to meet with us.

Mr. Bonnett, I remember that the interest rate was 22% when I bought my first land in 1981. I can understand the stress experienced in those moments, especially since my first harvest was destroyed by hail.

The previous witnesses told us that the general public did not really understand the work of farmers. Our government has established a program to restore public trust, and I believe that you're one of the people involved. I would like to know how the work is progressing.

10:30 a.m.

President, Canadian Federation of Agriculture

Ron Bonnett

I just caught part of it, but I think one of the things you mentioned was regaining public trust and how we make sure that we have the proper tools in place for farmers from a mental health perspective as compared to urban centres.

I think one of the things that's been mentioned several times is the difference between a farm operation and a regular urban dweller or another business. With farming, the home, the family and the business are so tied together that you can't escape it. It's there all the time.

Some of the public trust issues about the way we're caring for our animals and the type of crop inputs we're using were mentioned earlier. We are doing quite a bit of work now with a number of partners, whether they be the retail sector, processors or some of our input suppliers, to try to get information out there.

There's a whole awareness campaign that needs to be put in place and we're working on that and moving it forward to ensure that there's good information about farm practices out there, which will help stop—and I heard it mentioned earlier—some of the almost bullying tactics that are used by anti-agricultural groups.

10:30 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Pat Finnigan

Thank you, Mr. Bonnett.

Now we have Mr. Longfield for six minutes.

10:30 a.m.

Liberal

Lloyd Longfield Liberal Guelph, ON

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

To continue the discussion around the connections across Canada, Mr. Bonnett, I know you did a symposium last year on this. My office also coordinated a round table on May 1, where we had all parties involved. We had the Canadian Mental Health Association, and the Mental Health Commission of Canada. We had some psychologists, and we had university researchers.

Something that came out of the discussion that we had at our symposium was the connection between addiction, including binge drinking, and mental health. It was a surprise to me, since I thought that what binge drinking combined with the use of drugs does in terms of suicide and mental health outcomes was an urban issue around young adults. In your symposium, did you make any connections between mental health and addiction to illicit drugs and alcohol, or is that an area that didn't come up?

10:30 a.m.

President, Canadian Federation of Agriculture

Ron Bonnett

We didn't have a lot of discussion about that. An observation of my own is that, quite often, if you get addiction issues, that might be in response to the mental health issue—

10:30 a.m.

Liberal

Lloyd Longfield Liberal Guelph, ON

Right, self-medication.

10:30 a.m.

President, Canadian Federation of Agriculture

Ron Bonnett

—and stress. It's a coping mechanism. That's what happens. People go in that direction.

10:30 a.m.

Liberal

Lloyd Longfield Liberal Guelph, ON

How about you, Ms. Kelly? Are there any connections that you've seen?

We've seen some provincial governments making that connection between mental health and addiction, but federally we haven't had as strong a connection on that yet.

10:30 a.m.

Co-Founder, Do More Agriculture Foundation

Lesley Kelly

I don't have any stats on alcoholism in rural Canada, but from my observations, too, it is a coping tool. It is part of a culture where, if you are alone, in isolation, on a farm, one way to cope with it would be drinking. I feel that is a huge factor.

10:30 a.m.

Liberal

Lloyd Longfield Liberal Guelph, ON

Right, thanks.

Mood Disorders Society of Canada was facilitating our discussions. Mood Disorders Society of Canada has been working on a digital mental health platform through the University of British Columbia and the University of Alberta, connecting APEC nations together, the Pacific nations. They have funding from China. They have private funding going into the project.

We don't have rural broadband. In terms of access to digital services, whether those are appropriate or not, have you had any farmers talking about digital mental health services?

The question is for Kelly or Ron.

10:30 a.m.

Co-Founder, Do More Agriculture Foundation

Lesley Kelly

For us, support through digital services would be huge because farmers are far from getting access to resources and we feel that a digital resource, whether that's access to peer support or professional help, would be of great benefit.

10:35 a.m.

Liberal

Lloyd Longfield Liberal Guelph, ON

Right. Thank you.

Ron.

10:35 a.m.

President, Canadian Federation of Agriculture

Ron Bonnett

I think it might be of benefit too, but I don't think you can underestimate the value of a human voice, and that's where I think a call-in line is critical. We are still feeling beings. We're not strictly digital beings. It's an additional tool, but I think you still have to have that one-on-one type of conversation that takes place. Maybe the initial call is with a hotline, but after that, you're going to have to have the resources at the local level to deal with it one on one.

10:35 a.m.

Liberal

Lloyd Longfield Liberal Guelph, ON

Right. Thank you.

Recently, Minister Petitpas Taylor announced $378 million for the Canadian Institutes of Health Research, for 405 projects across the country. There's money going into health research, but the rural piece is one that seems to be missing. Do you know of whether those connections are being made through either of your organizations to the Canadian Institutes of Health Research? Is that something that the federal government needs to try to move up the ladder in terms of importance?

10:35 a.m.

Co-Founder, Do More Agriculture Foundation

Lesley Kelly

As far as I know, we have not been connected through that initiative.

10:35 a.m.

President, Canadian Federation of Agriculture

Ron Bonnett

Specifically, I think that would be something that would likely fit in under a centre for agricultural excellence—doing the research in identifying the types of things that need to be done for rural and agriculture. Agriculture is a specific subsector of rural, but having that type of research available....

One of the things I haven't mentioned either—and you brought up universities—is that there could be a role for the federal government in helping universities develop an appropriate curriculum, one that could be shared across agriculture universities or veterinary colleges, taking a look at the mental health aspect of agriculture. Frankly, that's something that has been overlooked.

10:35 a.m.

Liberal

Lloyd Longfield Liberal Guelph, ON

The people visiting the farms could identify problems with the farmer as they're going about their work.

It was interesting to hear that Bayer was also interested in this area. They have people going to the farms as well.

10:35 a.m.

President, Canadian Federation of Agriculture

10:35 a.m.

Liberal

Lloyd Longfield Liberal Guelph, ON

I have a very brief amount of time left.

I started a business in 1986, so I was just at the tail end of the interest rate crisis. Eventually I got the business to a point where I could join a mentor group. I got to the point where I could have a private mentor who was working with me every month.

The people who go through the start-up phase don't have access....

I'm looking over to Groupe Leader Plus.

Pierre, do young start-ups get access to the types of groups that you have, or is that something they need assistance on?