Agriculture Committee on Oct. 4th, 2018

[Jennifer MacTavish]

There are a couple of pretty creative things that we could do. For instance, one of the research projects we're looking into right now is working with conservation groups that are interested in grassland habitat so that they understand from an urban perspective the importance of grazing livestock and what it brings to the role.

In the sheep industry specifically, we're also dealing with knitters and weavers, because the sheep provide a biodegradable, renewable clothing source. You can also insulate homes with wool and mop up oil spills with wool. We have a different story to tell when it comes to sheep.

I think we have to start by enabling our farmers to feel more comfortable telling their stories. They're our front-line environmentalists. They told me before anybody else did that the butterfly population is dropping. We need to make them feel comfortable telling their story. We need to find groups that we can start working with one-on-one to build those relationships. That would be my recommendation.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you.

Ms. Connery, we had a conversation before about the labour troubles. I know this is an ongoing issue. I speak for the farmers in my region. Yes, absolutely, if they could hire local people, they would, but no one is stepping up to the plate to take those jobs, so they often have to rely on seasonal, temporary foreign workers.

In the context of this study, there are a lot of variables that farmers can't control. You mentioned the weather. However, there are some that we can, and I think labour is one of them. I wonder if you could go into a little more detail. Are there any specific recommendations that you want this committee to make with respect to the seasonal worker program so that we could help alleviate the mental health stresses that many people in your profession face?

[Elizabeth Connery]

We've had an ag labour-front round table this year that has been working hard on this issue. From our perspective, one of the government's issues—and they are working at breaking it down—is the different silos that people who deal with our program appear to be in. We go through various departments, such as ESDC and IRCC, and things have to be handed from one side to the other. Sometimes there is not enough communication about what's going on there.

New things come up. This year there's biometrics; it's going to be a new issue for us. ESDC did not find out until about spring, so it couldn't start letting IRCC know the implications of the change. We're going to have to deal with that this year. So, communication between departments would certainly help.

From a farmer's perspective, one of the things we would like to see is some clarity on where we are in the process. We send in our applications, and then we sit and wait. We don't know how far things have moved along, whether they have or haven't. It's about having some kind of tracking system to know when the LMIA has been approved, whether the information has been sent down to the sending country, whether that information has been forwarded to IRCC, and whether IRCC has received it. If we know that things are in progress or that they've stalled somewhere, we could ask questions or answer questions that need to be answered so that things can proceed. Those kinds of things would certainly help us and give us a much better time frame and frame of mind. Many of us were sitting there last spring wondering when we were going to have people show up. We were sitting with crops in the field and we were losing those crops. It was very difficult.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

I can remember one of my summer jobs as a teenager, which was working at a blueberry farm. In the month of July, you'd have that window of a couple of weeks, and if you waited too long, they'd be done. I can only imagine the stress when you're seeing your life's work out there in the field and it's not coming in. You'd be very shaken.

I have only a few seconds left, so I'll yield my time. Thank you, Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

You have 15 seconds.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

That's all right.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Thanks, Mr. MacGregor.

Now we have Mr. Peschisolido for six minutes.

[Joe Peschisolido, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Witnesses, thank you for coming here today.

I would like to follow up on Mr. Dreeshen's points. He made two good points, I think. One was the comment on enabling, not hobbling, and the second was about the fact that it's not just one area. There's the federal government, the provincial government, and local organizations that deal with the challenges that farmers have.

Can you elaborate a little on how we can deal with these challenges? What's working there? What do you think that we as a society—not as a federal government but as a society—could focus on that's actually a good thing?

[Elizabeth Connery]

One of the things we're working on at the Canadian Horticultural Council, and through ESDC, is coming up with a national housing standard for the employees we're bringing in through SAWP and through some of the other programs. The difficulty is that every province and municipality has a different standard. How do you find one that is common to everyone across the country that enables you to create a national standard?

I believe that in Ontario, it's the health departments that are setting those standards. In Manitoba, it's the Office of the Fire Commissioner, so fire extinguishers and those kinds of things are very important. Depending on where you are, there are very different standards. Trying to create a national standard is very difficult.

Communication across all levels of government is critical for us, but to try to ask all the municipalities in the country to get on board with one particular thing would be very difficult. Just continuing with ongoing communication is crucial for us.

[Joe Peschisolido, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

There are two terms we have heard today at committee that unfortunately we don't hear a lot at committee: “husbandry”, which Mr. MacGregor brought up, and “stewards of the land”. I commend you for what you do. If it weren't for farmers, we wouldn't have anything to eat. We wouldn't have our quality of life. It's a shame that there is this disconnect between the vast majority of urban and suburban folks and the farming industry.

Talking about husbandry and being stewards of the land, are there any bigger changes that we can make in the industry that could be helpful in dealing with the mental health challenges of farmers?

[Elizabeth Connery]

Communication, for us, is one way to do it, and having a common platform to communicate could potentially help. Certainly, one of the stressors we have is the difference between the public perception of what a farm is and the reality of what a farm is, including how we treat our animals, our land, our water supplies, and all of the resources we use, including the people we have as employees, because they are very important to us as well. They are all resources that we consider we need to husband and steward. They are not simply things to be used up, because our goal is to have a succession plan, to have a way for the future, for our families and for the people who want to move into the industry. Far too many people are leaving simply because they cannot deal with the stresses anymore.

[Joe Peschisolido, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

Would anyone else like to comment?

[Jennifer MacTavish]

Go ahead, Rebecca.

[Dr. Rebecca Lee]

Just briefly, one aspect that the group that represents horticultural farmers across the country would appreciate from the government would be outward communication on your part about the importance of agriculture. Agriculture involves only about 3% of the population, at best, even with all the outside industries. Obviously, it's not heavily weighted in the public perception, in the media, and in government activities as a whole, but it's fundamental. As they say, if you ate today, you have to thank a farmer. Just for us to know that the government has our back on this would be wonderful. That would be a very big step forward. Again, that's a matter of communication.

[Jennifer MacTavish]

I have nothing to add.

That was really eloquent, Rebecca.

[Joe Peschisolido, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

That was great.

Ms. Connery, you mentioned the lack of familiarity with farming in the mental health community. How can we change that?

[Elizabeth Connery]

That is a very good question. Whether it's someone who has come from the farm, or whether it is simply another set of parameters and courses that counsellors need to learn, they need to actually go out and meet farmers. Go for a tour. Farmers are very happy to have someone come out to their farms and see what's going on. They can show you what's happening. They can tell you what their time is spent at, how much time it takes to do different things, and how much time they're in isolation.

In horticulture, we spend a lot of time with other people in our industry and with people on our farms, but in lots of jobs you just go out on a tractor and go up and down the field for hours and hours during the day, or else you're out in a field doing another job. You're isolated, and when you're sitting on that tractor, you think a lot. If you are in a good frame of mind, that can be a very good thing. If you are not, though, you can find yourself trapped, rethinking really bad lines of thought.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Thank you, Ms. Connery.

Thank you, Mr. Peschisolido.

Ms. Nassif, you have six minutes.

[Eva Nassif, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank the witnesses for their presentations.

You all spoke of mental health issues and challenges.

Can you be more specific regarding the mental health challenges in the livestock sector? Can you also tell us whether any other challenges are related to horticulture?

Let's start with Ms. MacTavish.

[Jennifer MacTavish]

I want to make sure I understand the question. Do you want specific examples of what our farmers are doing?

[Eva Nassif, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

Yes, exactly.

When it comes to mental health challenges, are there any differences between the livestock and horticulture sectors?

[Jennifer MacTavish]

I think a lot of the mental health challenges would be shared. They both have to deal with weather challenges. There are a lot of things out of their control. When we're talking about sheep specifically, it's a commodity-based pricing system. You have no control over your pricing and you have no control over your input costs. You're also trying to negotiate with Mother Nature, and she doesn't co-operate very well.

I think there are a lot of shared stressors between the different commodities.

[Eva Nassif, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

Ms. Connery, you have the floor.

[Elizabeth Connery]

Yes, I would say there are a lot of shared stressors. They're in our industry as well. If you go to the grocery store, you have no idea that we're not growing broccoli in Canada in February. It's always there. All of those crops are there. The Canadian public really doesn't have a concept of the seasonality of our crops and how industrious we have to be during the time period they're there. There are also crops we grow that we store during the winter and that we pack out all winter as well. So in term of buying Canadian stuff, taking that message out is good.

If we're talking about specific stressors and the reactions of people.... I don't sleep well right now, for instance, with all that crop out in the field. When you are short on sleep, you are possibly not dealing with other people in as kind a way as you hope you would. You try to catch yourself as best you can, but you may not make the best decisions in the moment because you're tired and overextended.

These kinds of things happen on an ongoing basis for a lot of growers. It's very difficult when your input prices are dictated and you have to buy. We operate in a worldwide market for many of our crops. We're not dictating the price either. We're taking the best price we can negotiate in the marketplace. We are trying to find that thin margin in between and make a profit that will enable us to move forward into the future.

Certainly, with all the decisions we make on a daily basis.... In my case, it affects the lives and livelihood of 80 families. That is a pressure. These are all pressures that we are under on an ongoing basis.

[Eva Nassif, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

I have another question.

In terms of your associations, where does the funding for mental health initiatives generally come from?