Agriculture Committee on Feb. 28th, 2019

[Ryder Lee]

It is too early for this go-round. The CAP funding was announced two weeks ago or so.

There are progress and achievement reports from the National Farm Animal Care Council for several years past, and you could access those at the website, but as far as this current framework goes, we're in week two or three.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Yes, I know. It wasn't a fair question, but could you tell us where you're going to head with that and maybe let us know after this meeting, so the rest of the country can learn some lessons in terms of how you're using the CAP funding to build up public trust using the collaborations you have?

[Ryder Lee]

Absolutely. This project itself is around renewing the transport code, renewing the dairy cattle code, renewing the goat code and a new farmed finfish code, so it's specific to the projects that the funding is for.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Thank you.

We'll give the floor to Ms. Nassif for six minutes.

[Eva Nassif, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'll share my speaking time with my colleague, Mr. Peschisolido.

I want to thank our witnesses for their presentation. My question is for Mr. Lee.

My name is Eva Nassif. I'm the member of Parliament for Vimy, a rural constituency in the municipality of Laval, Quebec. My constituency doesn't have any farmers, but it's home to a number of agri-food companies that need farmers.

You spoke—with great emotion—about the challenges involved in rearing animals. How could we maintain the viability of the agri-food industry in Canada while improving public confidence in animal welfare?

[Ryder Lee]

That's a large question.

A lot of it is being undertaken by a lot of associations and using some of the work that comes through the National Farm Animal Care Council. We have robust codes of practice that convey what is possible and what is required and recommended that producers do, then we have programs that can be used to check up on that, and then we have to be able to tell that story to the public and connect with the public.

Some of that is the biggest challenge. People who are farming and ranching look at social media and think it's a great way to connect, but a lot of times we're connecting with ourselves. The same goes with whatever circle of conversation you're talking about—it seems to be internal.

As much as we try to partner with retail and food service to answer the questions people have, it's not easy to lodge yourself in there and provide answers proactively, so we focus on what we can do on our farms and being available for anybody who has questions.

We even have public comment and public participation processes in development of these codes. We do all we can, but we can't always reach everybody in their own little worlds.

[Eva Nassif, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

Could you describe a specific case where the code of ethics wasn't adhered to and what action was taken in this regard?

[Ryder Lee]

Well, like the doctor mentioned, it's a provincial undertaking, so you have your provincial regulatory bodies for the most part—although there are some federal cases as well—and it generally starts with a provincial enforcement body. It could be a veterinarian who notices something, or neighbours maybe, who notice that something isn't right here.

That's when a provincial enforcement body is generally contacted and starts to look into it. A lot of them will be social cases where maybe somebody was incapacitated, but some of them are bad stories. That's often when animals will be removed or taken custody of, and then it might proceed to charges being pressed and fines.

Some things will be a criminal matter and charged federally. It really is case by case, but that step of somebody finding out and reporting it and it then it being investigated from there is a common denominator. Then the code is referred to. They say, well, what was going on is this, whereas what is considered acceptable practice is this, and they compare the situation with the codes of practice.

[Eva Nassif, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

Thank you. I'll give the floor to my colleague.

[Joe Peschisolido, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

I'm going to follow up a bit on this point about the viability of the industry and maintaining public trust.

What are the variables that go into the various codes? Pigs and chickens and cows are quite diverse, so can you talk a bit about what goes into the variables of the codes, and when you update them, what that means?

[Ryder Lee]

The commonality of them all is the cycle of life, so it's managing your animals before they're pregnant, during pregnancy, when they're giving birth and as the newborn arrives. It's things like feed and water, the environment they're raised in, and even managing end-of-life decisions and all the related things. That whole life cycle and all the effects on the life as it takes place provide the commonality between the different codes. There are lots of divergences, such as for animals that are raised indoors compared with those raised outdoors.

When it comes to renewal, a lot of that is based on the priority welfare issues of the day. Looking at the last time the code was done, there's usually a list of some of the hard topics or some of the areas where the science was lacking. Perhaps we wanted to make a decision on an issue but we looked for research on it and it wasn't there. The next time, we ask whether there has been any new stuff since. Has there been any research that's come out since the last one that should change it? It's an environmental scan of what the practices are now, what research has been done since, what was hanging from the last code, and it's a lot—

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Thank you, Mr. Lee.

We'll move on to Mr. Berthold for six minutes.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Ceelen and Mr. Lee.

Mr. Lee, how long have you been at the National Farm Animal Care Council?

[Ryder Lee]

I've been chair for a little over four years now, and I started going to meetings in 2005.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Okay.

Why did the industry create an organization such as yours at the time?

[Ryder Lee]

Part of it was that there was an organization hosting some of the code writing in the 1990s and before, and that organization had ceased to exist or to be funded. The farm animal industries came together asking, “How are we going to handle this animal welfare conversation and codes of practice?” It was a coalescing and a coming together in the early 2000s, which predated my time at it, but like I said in my statement, it would be hard to imagine the industry without NFACC. At the same time, if NFACC hadn't started, I think something like it would have coalesced around that time too.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Given the growing presence of social media in recent years, do you see your role with the different groups that you work with as increasingly important?

[Ryder Lee]

It depends on the conversation. Each code of practice has a public comment period as its draft is moving along. Some of those codes have a lot of public comment, and some of them have quite a bit less. What's being implemented now is a survey at the start of the code-drafting process to see what the public is saying. Industry doesn't want to be seen as just doing these things themselves and minding their industry themselves. We want to have that public eyeball on things so that what we come out with at the end takes those things into consideration and that they are robust because of it.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Mr. Ceelen, you have extensive experience as a veterinarian and you've seen the public's view of how farmers, producers and breeders treat their animals evolve. What are the biggest differences between what you saw at the start of your career and what you're seeing now?

[Dr. Henry Ceelen]

I think the biggest difference is that there's more awareness, both on the public end and in food animal agriculture, about the issues that are important to the public in general. Food safety and animal welfare, I think, are two big topics, big issues, with the public. I think that, for the most part, food animal agriculture has recognized that and is taking steps to address them. In the dairy industry, for example, as you may know, they have a program that's called proAction. They're trying to be proactive to address these issues.

I think one thing that's important for everyone here to realize is that animal welfare and financial viability are not mutually exclusive. As a matter of fact, I would argue that they're exactly the opposite. When I look at primarily dairy farms that I work for, the more we improve animal welfare, the more productive those animals are. It's absolutely a win-win situation, so they're not mutually exclusive at all. There's a real vested interest by our industry to improve animal welfare, because they see there's a real value for them beyond the public perception. I argue that the public perception is really critical.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

The producers have an emotional stake, which comes from the heart, and an economic stake in taking care of their animals.

I'll let Mr. Doherty ask a question.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Thank you to the committee for allowing me to be here today. It's interesting to get that chance. I'm the shadow minister for fisheries, oceans and the Canadian Coast Guard; however, I'm in a landlocked area, and my family are farmers. We are primarily cow-calf producers as well as poultry producers in the south of British Columbia.

Very often, our farmers are unfairly targeted, I feel, by the proliferation of social media and outside interests that are targeting our way of life. Canadian farmers are some of the best in the world. Our products are wanted around the world because, sustainably and ethically, we grow good products. It was interesting in the meeting yesterday, and I'm glad that the farmed fish code was brought up.

I was in a meeting yesterday, and BSE was brought up. Even if it's a regional-based product, cattle products from Alberta are not seen as Alberta beef. It is a Canadian issue, so a concerted effort must be not just reactionary, but it must constant.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

You're pretty much done.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

I have a chance to grandstand. I applaud the committee for—

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

That was a short testimony.