Agriculture Committee on May 16th, 2019

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Okay, that's great, because at the end of the day, what we want to avert is a complete shutdown of the border.

[Dr. Jaspinder Komal]

Yes.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Thank you, Mr. Drouin and Mr. Komal.

Now we will go to Mr. MacGregor for six minutes, please.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you very much for appearing before the committee today.

Mr. Gaspar, I think I'll start with you for a little clarification. There's $32 million over the five years at $5.8 million per year. That's how it's divided over those five years?

[Fred Gaspar]

Yes.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

That's for the detector dogs. That's great. I know the dogs are very effective with their sense of smell.

That being said, with all of the measures that we're putting into place—the notifications, and so on—do you have an idea of how many undeclared pork products your officers are finding? What's the rate? Is it still a pretty common problem? Are they finding undeclared uncooked pork products coming in, in people's suitcases and so on?

[Fred Gaspar]

We have statistics up to the end of the previous fiscal year, which is 2017-18. Our detector dog service teams were responsible for just over 5,000 searches, which resulted in just over 7,000 interceptions of prohibited food, plant and animal products annually. That resulted in over 400 agricultural monetary penalties.

We estimate that about 25% to 30% of all those food, plant and animal seizures do relate to pork products.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Wow.

Which port of entry is taking the lead on this? Which is the most problematic one, would you say?

[Fred Gaspar]

We try not to divulge operational details with regard to the deployment of the dogs. It is certainly fair to say, and I don't think I'm telling any tales out of school, that those airports that have flights from the affected countries are the ones of primary interest to us and where we are focusing our efforts, but as a primary principle we try to use agility as the means by which to manage this disease.

One of the things we've done in consultation with CFIA from the very beginning is put our program on a posture whereby we can deploy a couple of teams on relatively short notice to primary ports of entry if need be.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Ms. Barnes, in the fight over canola that we're having with China, getting information out of them with regard to their phytosanitary concerns about our product has been like trying to squeeze water out of a stone. In our international relations, are you finding that countries are being quite open about the extent and spread of ASF and whether their containment measures are being successful? Are you finding that it's a very open and frank dialogue with other countries?

[Colleen Barnes]

I'll start by saying we had a great example at the forum, Mr. Chair. Even a representative from China was there to talk about what was happening in that country.

Also, if you're a member of OIE, there are obligations to report if you have the disease. In fact, countries have been coming forward when they get their first case. From where I'm sitting, it looks like there is pretty good transparency.

[Dr. Jaspinder Komal]

Europe is living this. We have seen examples of their being very co-operative. Then Japan is sitting in the middle of all this happening, with China, Vietnam, and now Hong Kong recently, and even Mongolia. It's spreading like fire. Japan is working very closely with us. They are open to discussing these things.

As the chief veterinary officer, I think that where Canada is positioned on the influence side with the OIE, I can say with good confidence that, yes, countries are sharing information. They all have an interest in eliminating or managing the disease or keeping it out. Even the Americas region that I'm working with is quite interested in working with us.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Which country currently is taking a leading role in the virology of ASF?

I know it's probably a coordinated effort, but is there one country that's applying a lot of resources to studying this, trying to find a cure, a vaccine, etc.?

[Dr. Jaspinder Komal]

It is a coordinated effort. It's a very hardy virus, a DNA virus not like influenza. It's very difficult to produce a vaccine.

There's a global alliance on research. It's called GARA. They work on it. Canada and the U.S. are part of it. We take a leadership role in pushing or leading other countries to help us along with the OIE and FAO. Through the forum we have a recommendation that GARA should continue these activities and work with countries to develop the vaccines. Canada will be a very active participant in that.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

My final question is for Ms. Barnes.

We have heard about the spread of wild boar. One of the requests to Agriculture Canada was that...because it's now crossing over provincial boundaries and made its way into British Columbia. They've gone over the Rockies.

What kind of coordination efforts is the federal government offering to provinces so they are not having to fight this battle alone?

[Colleen Barnes]

We've been working federally with Environment Canada as well, which has an interest in this. We talked to them right away once we understood this as a possible vector.

Also, we're then working with the provinces. It's interesting. At the provincial level, you have the agriculture ministries that then have to reach out to the wildlife ministries in those provinces. This is a major effort now to try to coordinate. I think as John mentioned, it's going to take a while just because of the size. We benefited yesterday when the study came out from Saskatchewan to give some sense of where these animals are. That's going to be very helpful to us.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Mr. Longfield, you have six minutes.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Ms. Barnes, I want to continue the train of thought that we're on right now on provincial coordination.

I mentioned to the last panel a concern. You just mentioned the Environment and Climate Change ministry. This is a global problem. Some countries or subnationals are backing out of climate change initiatives.

What if, politically, Alberta, Manitoba and Ontario decide not to participate in African swine fever detection? What if they say it costs their government too much, that they're cutting costs and they're not going to be involved?

What kind of risk does that pose to our food supply?

[Earl Dreeshen, Conservative, Red Deer—Mountain View, AB]

Point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Sorry, Mr. Longfield, we have a point of order.

[Earl Dreeshen, Conservative, Red Deer—Mountain View, AB]

On a point of order, Mr. Chair, with that particular comment, if the member wishes to discuss climate change, I can see no problem with that, but to suggest that any of these particular provinces would in any way try to minimize the work they would do on African swine fever infestation or any other type of disease is certainly out of order.

I would ask the member to recognize what he is talking about—

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

No.

[Earl Dreeshen, Conservative, Red Deer—Mountain View, AB]

—and the significance of that type of a comment.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Okay.

This is really a debate. It's raising a point, if....