Evidence of meeting #29 for Agriculture and Agri-Food in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was industry.
A recording is available from Parliament.
9:10 a.m.
Liberal
Alaina Lockhart Liberal Fundy Royal, NB
Okay. You had spoken in your presentation about research and flexibility, and also about the difference between smaller research clusters and different funding.
Could you speak to that a bit for us?
9:10 a.m.
Executive Director, Dairy Farmers of Canada
Yes and that's why I'm glad I have Émie with me, because we had the discussion last night when we were preparing. Research is a different environment. When we talk about flexibility, the world of research is a special world, and sometimes when you have criteria and a framework that is so rigid, it just makes it very difficult to pursue a goal. It happens sometimes from one year to another that a project will continue, or for x reason, it couldn't be completed.
The universe of research is very different, and sometimes it is not being taken into consideration in the development of policy. We understand governments have rules. We're not playing against rules, but we're making sure that we have the flexibility to adjust, adapt, and provide the support to our researchers at a time when it's needed. The aspect of agility more than flexibility but an understanding that it maybe it's a different universe....
9:10 a.m.
Liberal
Alaina Lockhart Liberal Fundy Royal, NB
You mentioned the smaller projects would be termed differently, as support.
What would some of those smaller projects be?
9:15 a.m.
Émie Désilets Assistant Director, Dairy Production Research, Dairy Farmers of Canada
This comment, in the text, was related to the fact that certain groups are very well organized, especially DFC. As Caroline said, we have developed a strategy and are working with the provinces. Since we are already organized, we think we deserve research support. For smaller groups that need help getting organized, if only to define their priorities, it is important, but a research project might not be required. That was essentially what we meant.
9:15 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Pat Finnigan
Welcome to Mr. Randall Garrison who is with us today.
You have six minutes.
9:15 a.m.
NDP
Randall Garrison NDP Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. In the last Parliament, I spent six months on the agriculture committee, but most of that time we were talking about things connected with the wheat industry. I have exactly one wheat farmer in my riding, so today is a better day for me to be here. I do have small producers, especially in the cheese industry. On Vancouver Island, dairy, poultry, and turkey production are very important.
The context that I bring to the table is the same that I've been concerned about for many years, and that's the question of food security in all its senses, safe food, access to supply, as well as affordability. I will ask some questions in that context.
The other thing that has always concerned me is, we can have a very good agrifood policy framework, and I know that is what this committee is working on with this study, but if we change the context, we can undermine that strategy. So I do want to ask some things about impacts of trade agreements on the framework, maybe not so much on the compensation side.
I have to start with turkey, because that's dear to my heart. My grandparents were turkey farmers. My partner, who came from Indonesia and is an immigrant to Canada, came here and discovered turkey. I can now recommend to you curried turkey, if any of you haven't tried it. I'm trying to expand the industry in terms of a new use for turkey.
I was interested in hearing a little more from you, Mr. Davies, about the potential impacts of the TPP and CETA in terms of loss of market for turkey producers.
9:15 a.m.
Chair, Turkey Farmers of Canada
It's good to hear you're a fan of turkey. We're always looking for those. I didn't think I would come and get recipes, but that's also a bonus. This committee is squarely on the ball.
In all seriousness, though, thank you for the question. Interestingly enough, we're partnered today with DFC because in the context, not of CETA but TPP, we have more in common with them than we do with our other feathered friends because of the impact. That is basically because of the structure of our market.
As I indicated very briefly in my presentation, our market is driven really on the white meat market, the breast meat. That is literally all that comes in across the border. It just displaces the rest of the bird, to put it in elementary terms. You can't just grow the breast meat. That poses a huge issue to us in displacement.
The access will be up about 71% over the totality of the 10 years when it comes to its full fruition, if it is signed and implemented. It's a significant hit for the turkey farmers of Canada. When you talk about compensation, we have lots of questions. As Caroline indicated before, we're sort of just wondering at this point what that's going to look like.
We, being in supply management, would still prefer to get our dollars and our livelihood from the marketplace. We stand firmly behind that. Having said that, if part of your market has been undermined through this, then of course you're looking for compensation. We do not see it as a subsidy, but squarely as compensation for lost market in order to rebuild and continue to invest.
On CETA specifically, it's not really an issue for the poultry industry. I'll just speak for turkey and in general for the poultry industry. Because they're both high-value markets, it's really a net zero game. It's really dairy, as everybody knows, that has had issues, but we still share their concerns because it sets that precedent. We saw that unfold in the TPP shortly thereafter.
As they do in dairy, we support trade. We're not anti-trade, as has been indicated sometimes in the press. We get a lot of bad press in supply management. I don't know why. I might be biased.
Really, it comes down to the fact that we have a very strong system here in supply management, in poultry and in the dairy sector, and that has to be maintained. It has an ability to contribute to the rural fabric of this country and to the small towns, which we know are under pressure and struggle now, especially with an economy that is basically a little flat over a few years. The projected outlook is not as rosy as people would hope. Supply management becomes more of an integral part of rural Canada.
9:20 a.m.
NDP
Randall Garrison NDP Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC
I guess you had this attempt to shift some of the argument from compensation to a transition, and I have a real concern about that as a concept, because it seems to me that it raises the danger of a downward spiral. In other words, what are we transitioning to? Is it to less and less market share?
Can you say something about how that would impact other things? It's obviously potentially a disaster for businesses, but for the industry, how can the industry work on innovation and invest for growth in the future if we're in a transition to a smaller market share? I don't understand how that would work.
9:20 a.m.
Chair, Turkey Farmers of Canada
To be quite frank, that's the first I've heard of transition. That, to me, smacks of short term, which is what comes into my mind, and that would concern me, because it's not just a.... This is pure speculation on my part. You never want a band-aid solution just to get over that initial hump. As you said, that's a race to the bottom, and that's what we've always said at supply management with some of these trade deals, and not specifically just Canada, but any deal that becomes more global. You have to look at the trade deal as a whole, but you want to make sure that nowhere is it just a race to the bottom.
We all want to provide the consumer with a low-cost and healthy alternative when it comes to food and quality products, and provide in Canada, as we do at TFC and DFC, high standards of food care and animal care. We have these programs in place, and we realize that is the cost of doing business in the world we're in today. We all understand that, and we're not looking to recoup all that, but it also has to be a system where it's recognized and is part of the value when producing your product.
If you're up against another country—and we all the know the same argument, and it was indicated in my presentation—what are the standards for that product coming into our country?
9:20 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Pat Finnigan
Thank you, Mr. Davies, we're out of time. Sorry about that.
Thank you, Mr. Garrison.
Now Mr. Peschisolido, for six minutes.
9:20 a.m.
Liberal
Joe Peschisolido Liberal Steveston—Richmond East, BC
Madame Emond and Mr. Davies, thank you for being here today and giving us your insight.
I'd like to follow up on Mr. Garrison's point. I am also from B.C. I'm not from the island, but from Steveston–Richmond East, or let's just say the greater Vancouver area.
We had a joint event with Minister Letnick,, the agriculture minister for B.C., and Minister MacAulay. We utilized funds from the framework agreement to create a secretariat and a booklet of products to send to Asia. There weren't many products from the turkey industry or the dairy industry.
Is Asia a market that you are looking at, and if it is, what would be the strategies utilizing the next framework agreement, and public policy in general, so that we can attain that?
Perhaps Madame Emond and then....
9:20 a.m.
Executive Director, Dairy Farmers of Canada
I will make the bridge with the discussion we had earlier. Supply management is providing the predictability and the fair revenue to producers so they don't focus on their survival. They focus on innovation, and they focus on developing and producing the best quality product possible for the consumer. I think that's the basis of what this agricultural policy is doing with supply management.
When we talk about export, it's important to understand that it's not export at any price. It has to make sense for the producer. It has to make sense for the processor.
Dairy, particularly, is a sector where only 9% of the production around the world is exported. It's mainly a local commodity. There are some exports and there are some opportunities, but I think it has to be assured that it's not at the expense of the domestic market that we have developed. We have invested in educating people on the nutritious value of the product, on the aspect of protein. We have grown that market, and we are really working to promote our domestic market, but it's true some chunk of it is given away.
One thing is for sure, the stability of our domestic system is where we take our strength, and that's where we develop our expertise. I have mentioned Genitech before. It is stable because of supply management, and because we were able to invest a dollar in innovation and to develop our expertise. We have great expertise.
9:25 a.m.
Chair, Turkey Farmers of Canada
In the interest of time, I won't repeat everything Caroline said, but I agree wholeheartedly with her statement.
All I'm saying—and I'll let Mr. Boyd add some context to this—is that is something we're well aware of. In the Asian community, we don't enjoy the same popularity that chicken does. In fact, our popularity probably hovers around zero. It's just not part of Asian culture. Boy, we wish we could, because it's something we're very aware of and companies are always looking for ways to produce new products that reflect Canada's makeup, quite frankly.
I know that this a focus out in B.C. They, of course, understand this in the turkey industry. We have halal turkey, we have kosher turkey, the list goes on, and curry turkey, as I've heard today. Once again, the list goes on and on.
Yes, we see it as an opportunity, but as far as trade in turkey with China, no.
Phil, do you have anything to add?
9:25 a.m.
Liberal
Joe Peschisolido Liberal Steveston—Richmond East, BC
We were talking about public trust and the consumer is king. Also, following up on Mr. Garrison's point on consumer issues, on public trust, at that same announcement—I'll go back with Minister Letnick and Minister MacAulay—the narrative was for Canada to become a superpower on exports in food. Unfortunately, there are some folks, rightly or wrongly, who view that the practices in producing the food are either bad for the environment, bad for the animals, or bad for the health.
How can the framework help the industry in allaying the concerns of the public in those areas?
9:25 a.m.
Chair, Turkey Farmers of Canada
I think specifically, as I had indicated earlier,—and, again, my comments were brief and didn't go into detail—this is where research comes into play. For instance, in a very broad sense, in the last 25 or so years in the turkey industry alone, and it's reflected in other poultry, the conversion rate, which is the pound or kilogram of feed to produce a kilogram of meat, has been cut in half. That goes to your carbon footprint.
I know that poultry has one of the lowest carbon footprints for the amount of energy expended, land mass used, etc. It's very efficient that way, so we're well poised for the future world that we need to feed. We've all heard the figures that are astounding. Poultry is always held up as one area that has, I guess, a foot in the door already.
Having said that, the research, when it comes to animal care and transport of animals.... These are all files that are priorities at our agencies and we continue to work on, and therein lies the programming that we have. Right now, except for a handful of producers at any one time that are experiencing issues, we're basically at 100% for our programs and they're mandatory in every province.
9:25 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Pat Finnigan
Thank you.
We will now move on to the second round of questions.
Mr. Drouin, you have the floor and you have six minutes.
9:25 a.m.
Liberal
Francis Drouin Liberal Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I am pleased to hear that Mr. Gourde is concerned about supply management. In politics, you know, you have to put your money where your mouth is, Mr. Gourde, and right now you are supporting a candidate who wants to eliminate supply management.
More seriously, Ms. Emond, you spoke about the proAction program. Can you tell us what its objectives are?
November 3rd, 2016 / 9:25 a.m.
Executive Director, Dairy Farmers of Canada
Thank you for your question, Mr. Drouin.
ProAction addresses exactly what your colleague said about consumers' interest in best farming practices and in the source of their food. One of its objectives is to show Canadians and our clients, processors, that we are doing everything in our power to produce the best quality possible, in the best environment possible, while respecting animals and the earth. That is what proAction does best. It is a program developed by producers and for producers, with a high degree of engagement.
One of the benefits of supply management is that we represent all producers right across Canada. So our program applies to all of them. There are many programs around the world, but they are voluntary or apply only to part of production. In Canada, we all produce according to the proAction system. So that can strengthen the message to consumers about all our work to reassure them and to demonstrate best practices.
We talked earlier about research and how you can help us. Investing in the implementation and development of proAction is one thing. I will send you our research priorities for the next cycle. You will see that they pertain specifically to ways of improving animal welfare and reducing our environmental footprint.
We have the smallest carbon footprint in the world as regards dairy production. There is more work to be done in this regard. All of our research projects focus on improving our farming practices and on producing milk in the most respectful way possible.
9:30 a.m.
Liberal
Francis Drouin Liberal Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON
Has Growing Forward 2 helped on the research side as far as developing the proAction initiative is concerned?
Do you know what the penetration rate for the proAction initiative is among your farmers? Right now, does it stand at 25% or 50%?
9:30 a.m.
Executive Director, Dairy Farmers of Canada
The initiative is deployed in phases, based on modules. That's how we started.
We have begun implementing the animal care module, so all of that work is just getting under way. It's important to point out that the proAction program consolidates on-farm best practices. The milk quality module for Canada's dairy farmers has been in place for 15 years. We've added components to this consolidation of practices.
The implementation will make it possible to follow through on on-farm best practices.
9:30 a.m.
Liberal
Francis Drouin Liberal Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON
Has Growing Forward 2 helped some producers acquire robotic equipment? About six months ago, we visited a farm where the producer had made an investment in robotics. So, instead of spending three hours milking his cows, the farmer now spends three hours looking for ways to improve the health of this cows.
Has Growing Forward 2 been helpful in that regard? How can we improve the next agricultural policy framework to help producers integrate robotics into their processes?
9:30 a.m.
Executive Director, Dairy Farmers of Canada
I have to answer in a bit of a roundabout way. As I said earlier, income stability and the capacity to invest in research would pave the way for farm development and investment. As Mr. Davies can tell you, our farmers are business people who want to operate as efficiently as possible, so they invest, and they have done so in recent years. They invest their own money to build barns and install robotic equipment.
I think the next policy framework could help our producers by supporting the implementation and acquisition of technologies and equipment, as is the case in other countries. Governments in some countries provide partial funding for the purchase of technologies and equipment, such as green technologies and biodigesters. Certainly, then, there are ways to support purchases, and that's an option worth exploring.
9:30 a.m.
Liberal