Agriculture Committee on Nov. 22nd, 2016

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Yes.

[James Brennan]

The obvious one closest to Ottawa would be the one in your riding at our Atocas Bay project. We allow cattle grazing. We fenced off ecologically sensitive areas on the property. Certainly we have a very strong operational partnership on that property with that particular farmer.

I don't know if you know the name of the one in Saskatchewan, Paul?

[Paul Thoroughgood]

I think I'd like to talk a little more at the industry scale. We're one of the few NGOs that have engaged in both the Canadian Roundtable for Sustainable Crops and the Canadian Roundtable for Sustainable Beef. Really that's a recognition that the working landscape is critically important to not only the economic well-being of Canada but the environmental well-being as well, because most of the habitat that we view as important for waterfowl is owned and stewarded by farmers, so working with both of those groups to help improve and maintain that stewardship as we go forward has been critically important for us. They are both very strong partners.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

If there was one priority that you would recommend for the next APF, what would it be?

[Paul Thoroughgood]

The one comment I didn't get to was about the need to quantify both the economic and environmental benefits of BMPs so that we can better understand what's happening. Under the last APF, WEBs, which was looking more at it BMP by BMP, was a good first step, but looking more broadly at a landscape level and understanding what the benefits or costs of different stewardship practices are would help inform not just this APF but future APFs as well.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Great. Thank you.

Mr. Brock, I'm glad to hear that you're farming around Hensall. Other than Mr. Shipley, nobody knows where Hensall is, but I do, and so does Lloyd. My better half is from there. I'm glad to hear that I know somebody else.

You've touched on a point with AgriStability. Production margins used to be at 85%, and now they're at 70%. If your organization or some farmers experience a lower price one year or if beef producers experience a disease, for instance, they could access it, but we are hearing from multiple witnesses that nobody is accessing this program. You've said that the threshold is important, but it's not the only thing. What else would be important? I heard you talk about flexibility, but what would flexibility look like?

[Mark Brock]

First of all, I'll address your question around AgriStability.

For a grain and oilseed producer who isn't very diversified and is mainly in just grain and oilseeds, when you add the rule of two times your allowable expenses, that actually really deflates our target even lower. We might be at 75%, but in a lot of situations we would almost be at a 50% income loss before we would trigger significant dollars in the program. Then it really becomes a disaster program.

The timeliness of that program and the lack of value put on it by financial institutions really leaves me in an area of flux, so unless here is some significant work done to address the two main non-allowable expenses, which are machinery and land costs, I'm not sure it would ever work well for grain and oilseed producers, even if you were to increase the trigger back up to the original level.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Thank you, Mr. Brock.

Thank you, Mr. Drouin.

Ms. Brosseau, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Ruth Ellen Brosseau, NDP, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank the witnesses for their presentation. Their expertise is really important for our committee. We have to see to it that the next strategic framework is improved. That is what everyone around this table wants to see.

Mr. Orb, you spoke about AgriStability. We've had a lot of witnesses come before the committee to talk about issues and how they want to have the original Growing Forward reference margin of 1% re-established.

Are there any other programs you would like to see changed that you could recommend to the committee?

[Ray Orb]

If you mean within the agricultural policy framework, yes.

We mentioned AgriInvest. One thing we didn't mention was research funding. As technologies change and as farms adapt, programs that can help that process through research are also important.

The other thing is the environmental farm programs that we mentioned. I know that the environment is a big part of what we do on our farms right now. I think there is a good level of trust, not only across the country but across the world, that Saskatchewan and Canadian farmers produce food safely. I think we really have to focus on those environmental farm programs.

We work in our own provinces with the best management practices. We have some flexibility in those programs. I think I would like to see that continue. We hope that the federal government listens to the fact that we see all these farm support programs and business risk management as important tools. We don't think that farmers should have to rely on ad hoc programs. There should be good programs in place for business risk, and farmers should be able to participate in them, but when we see the numbers falling, we see a red flag and we need to have that changed.

[Ruth Ellen Brosseau, NDP, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Absolutely. We're on the same page.

I know that in my riding it's hard to find workers in certain industries. We have had witnesses come before the committee and talk about certain barriers and problems, and they have been able to share some solutions.

Is that something that is an issue for you?

[Ray Orb]

I think it's endemic across the country. It's not just in Saskatchewan. We have a huge shortage of farm workers.

I think part of our problem is demographics. In our province and in agriculture, farmers are getting older. I think the average age is about 58 years old. Some of the older farmers are not able to handle the new technology. We need and we have some flexibility in some of the farm support programs whereby we can train workers. We actually have a program in Saskatchewan that certifies farm workers as being safe operators of farm equipment. I think there needs to be some federal funding attached to Growing Forward.

[Ruth Ellen Brosseau, NDP, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

There's a private member's bill that has been tabled in the House and will be up for debate. It will help farmers to transfer and sell their farms. I think that's a great piece of legislation that would help to make sure we are able to transfer farms to family members and do it in a responsible way.

I would now like to address the representatives of Ducks Unlimited Canada.

I represent a riding located between Montreal and Quebec, on the north shore of the St. Lawrence. The municipality of Saint-Barthélemy is located there, and there are several wetlands there. In the spring, the fields are flooded and there are snow geese everywhere. Certain producers complain a bit about this and say that these birds cause problems for them. That said, I know that you do very good work with the RCMs, the elected representatives and the farmers.

Is there something in the strategic framework we are studying that absolutely needs to be improved?

[James Brennan]

I think we've covered some of the recommendations in our document, but certainly bringing forward a solid number of BMPs that incentivize conservation on the working landscapes is one that we would recommend for the next agricultural policy framework for Canada.

You mentioned the north shore of the St. Lawrence. That's a continentally important area for birds, so it's not surprising to hear that you have many birds flying through that area. The Lac-Saint-Pierre area of the St. Lawrence River is one of the most important waterfowl staging habitats in eastern North America, so it's one that we have particular interest in and support for.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

You have 10 seconds.

[Ruth Ellen Brosseau, NDP, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Since I only have 10 seconds left, this will conclude my intervention.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Thank you, Madame Brosseau.

Now Ms. Lockhart has six minutes.

[Alaina Lockhart, Liberal, Fundy Royal, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and welcome to all of you.

Ducks Unlimited, you mentioned briefly in your presentation that there has been some success in the Atlantic provinces that you're quite proud of.

I'm wondering if you could expand on that for us and tell us what's working well. Being from Fundy Royal in New Brunswick, I feel we need to talk about this.

[James Brennan]

I'd be delighted to.

An elevated level of wetland protection policies is in place in Atlantic Canada. Frankly, we think some great leadership is being shown in protecting the base of habitat on the landscape in Atlantic Canada. There is a policy in place that protects existing habitat, and in instances where habitat is destroyed, there is what we call a mitigation sequence in place. In areas where you drain or destroy a wetland, there's an obligation to compensate or replicate the functionality of that habitat. That exists in New Brunswick, Prince Edward Island, and in Nova Scotia. Newfoundland has been looking at similar legislation in recent times. It hasn't been fully effective yet.

In the case of P.E.I., much of this was driven by the need to improve water quality, because there had been issues with groundwater contamination and groundwater quality, and all the drinking water in Prince Edward Island comes from groundwater. I know that Alberta has moved quite far down the road in implementing a similar policy.

With those types of policies in place, there's a level playing field, if you want to call it that, in understanding how the landscape is going to be managed. Those ecosystem services that we've talked about—water quality, reduced runoff, soil quality—that are provided by wetlands and other habitats continue to be provided and supported in the Atlantic provinces, in particular because of the support they receive from those policies.

[Alaina Lockhart, Liberal, Fundy Royal, NB]

So those are provincial government policies?

[James Brennan]

They are.

[Alaina Lockhart, Liberal, Fundy Royal, NB]

How does that balance work with farmers?

[James Brennan]

I don't work daily in Atlantic Canada, but from what I understand from our Atlantic team, the partnership has been strong. There's been tremendous clarity.

Generally speaking, farmers are very strong environmental stewards. They're very close to the land, they own the land, they're deriving income from the land, so understanding those services provided by the habitats they own is an important part of farm planning and a part of their overall business planning.

[Paul Thoroughgood]

I had the good fortune of being at a soil conservation conference last week in Moncton. There were several producer panels talking about the BMPs they've established to help reduce the off-farm impacts, particularly of potato production. They were talking about putting in grass buffer strips, repairing the riparian areas, and that sort of thing.

I think in most instances the farmers were quite proud of the improvements they had made on their farms, and there wasn't a lot of talk about losing productivity. It was more about making improvements on their farms to maintain their social licence, which I think Mark talked about a little bit as well.

[Alaina Lockhart, Liberal, Fundy Royal, NB]

Great.

I know one of the things you're focused on is the research that's been done in recognizing wetlands as an eligible carbon offset. Can you give us some research numbers and data around that?