Evidence of meeting #67 for Agriculture and Agri-Food in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was consumers.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
Lloyd Longfield Liberal Guelph, ON
Exactly, and we all need it, and the youth all need jobs, so somehow there's an opportunity.
I mentioned the University of Guelph. Maybe there are other universities or other schools that have said their graduates can't find jobs. Are you aware of any such statements that will help us with our study?
4:05 p.m.
Associate Director, Food Horizons Canada, The Conference Board of Canada
We have a centre that looks at post-graduate education, coming with a national strategy around education. I'm happy to put you in touch—
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
Lloyd Longfield Liberal Guelph, ON
If you could put it in a little paragraph for us, that would be terrific. Thank you.
I'll go over to CFA and Mr. Ross.
In looking at what can connect us, what we agree on, you made a couple of controversial comments at the beginning concerning what could be dividing us in tax policy, which is under review right now. We're hoping to see a substantial report coming to the House of Commons to discuss. We know that farmers are a key part of our tax regime, so we need to protect them as a small business. Beyond that, concerning where the key areas of agreement are, has the CFA identified some areas of strength that we really need to focus on and preserve in our policy?
4:05 p.m.
Director of Business Risk Management and Farm Policy, Canadian Federation of Agriculture
We held a series of discussions throughout the year bringing together fairly diverse stakeholder groups to start exploring where there is and where there might not be consensus.
I have to say, building on the question—you referred to the Conference Board and Jean-Charles—food waste is an issue that we see as a very common concern across all the different stakeholder groups that have been involved in the discussions. Food literacy is another area, which we see as very closely related and which has many knock-on effects.
A regular refrain, which we've heard from a number of groups and which I think our membership would support very much, is building on the strengths that Canada already has: looking at data, at our strength in our food safety system, as Mr. Le Vallée referenced; also, looking at the agrifood growth targets that have been set and mobilizing around existing areas in which we see significant strength in the Canadian agrifood industry.
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
Lloyd Longfield Liberal Guelph, ON
Thank you. I hope that in subsequent meetings we can also discuss affordable food, but I'm running short on time, so I'll have to leave that for another witness, possibly.
I want to touch base with Soy Canada.
Guelph is a centre for soy as well. It's great to see it expanding into western Canada. Western Canada is more canola than soy, but there may be some similar properties.
There was a recent report around policy on hydrogenated oils. Have you developed a policy position on soy versus hydrogenated oils and on the banning of the use of hydrogenated oils?
4:10 p.m.
Interim Executive Director, Soy Canada
We don't have a policy per se, but I think you're referring to trans fats, and oils in their liquid form don't contain trans; it's the process of hydrogenation that creates the trans. I think there's still some debate within science as to the relationship between trans and saturates and which are worse, but I think trans may be losing the argument.
Fats are made up of fatty acids, and the fatty acid composition is what basically determines what they're best used for. Something such as canola, which is low in saturates, is a natural liquid oil. Soybean oil has about twice the level of saturated fat. It needs less hydrogenation than a canola would.
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Pat Finnigan
Thank you, Mr. Adolphe, and thank you, Mr. Longfield.
Ms. Trudel, you have the floor for six minutes.
September 19th, 2017 / 4:10 p.m.
NDP
Karine Trudel NDP Jonquière, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
My thanks to the witnesses for their presentations.
In my constituency of Jonquière, agriculture is really important. We have a lot of farms there. There are a number of vegetable farms, which I was also able to visit this year, and farms that specialize in organics, either dairy or produce.
Could you tell me how the next food policy could promote local products, including those produced on a small scale? These are not producers whose products are distributed very widely. There has been a lot of talk of exports, but, in the policy, how can we promote local purchasing and make sure that local producers are not left out?
4:10 p.m.
Associate Director, Food Horizons Canada, The Conference Board of Canada
Today, local products make up a good part of the retail market. Short channels, public markets: it's all great. Some provinces are further ahead than others and have a better supply of local products in retail outlets. Actually, most local products are sold in retail outlets, not by direct transactions between producers and consumers. You can buy products directly from producers, but Canadians are net consumers, meaning that they buy their products in retail outlets. Local products represent from 5% to 20% of the market, depending on the season.
To start with, there is a definition problem. Are we going to say that they are Quebec products, Jonquière products, or Chicoutimi products? How do we define local products? Are we talking about a radius of 100 km? Can we consider strawberries from the Île d’Orléans as local for consumers here in the Outaouais? Personally, I prefer to buy local strawberries. Local for me means that they come from the Outaouais. Does that include Ripon?
No system is in place to promote local products because the term is not clearly defined. For the promotion to happen, there has to be some agreement on it.
People are interested, but it is not their priority. We surveyed consumers and their priorities are about quality and freshness. Price is in fourth place. Nutrition and health are very important as well. Products having to be local is in sixth, seventh or eighth place. It is not the priority.
However, during the season, people prefer community-supported agriculture. People go to buy containers once a week. That's more popular than buying products directly from the farm. We are seeing growth there too.
We did a study on that and I will send it to you as well.
4:15 p.m.
Interim Executive Director, Soy Canada
This is not so much a comment from Soy Canada as it is from just kind of grassroots agriculture. I think it might be difficult to have a buy local policy. I buy locally, but it might be difficult to have a buy local policy in national policies, because of regional differences, even regional within a province, but I'm talking regional within Canada. Western Canada produces very few whole foods in terms of the total bulk of agriculture. Wheat, canola, and soybeans are ingredients. You don't buy them locally unless you're going to a bakery or something like that.
In southwestern Ontario with some of the greenhouses and with some of the farms in Quebec, you can buy fruits and vegetables locally, and I can buy them down in the ByWard Market, but because of those regional differences, I think it would be difficult to do a lot of justice to buying locally within a national food policy. That's just my opinion, not that of Soy Canada. There are huge regional differences.
4:15 p.m.
Director of Business Risk Management and Farm Policy, Canadian Federation of Agriculture
I would echo those comments, I think, around concerns we have with one common definition across Canada of what local is. Where I do think a national food policy has a role to play in this, though, is to focus on looking at what growth opportunities exist in agriculture, generally speaking, both in terms of exports abroad and also looking at the domestic market.
Issues like food literacy and building understanding and awareness of Canadian food and what is produced here, I think, are really critical roles a food policy can play that can help build some of the domestic markets we're talking about. We certainly think buying locally is one of those, amongst a number of other opportunities that exist in the Canadian marketplace.
Thank you.
4:15 p.m.
NDP
Karine Trudel NDP Jonquière, QC
I have a more specific question for Mr. Le Vallée.
Did you look at the issue of labelling in your many studies? My colleague Mr. Dusseault introduced a bill on mandatory labelling for GMOs, but the government rejected it. Of course, it is not a matter of banning GMOs, but of making sure that consumers know where their food is coming from and whether it contains GMOs or not.
Did you study that? What is your opinion about labelling and nutritional values? Would it be appropriate to have a measure like that in a food policy?
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Pat Finnigan
Unfortunately, your time is up.
Mr. Drouin now has the floor. If he wants, he can pick up on your question, Ms. Trudel.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Francis Drouin Liberal Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Thanks to the panel for being here.
Mr. Ross, you mentioned the tax reform. I just want to assure you that the Minister of Finance has assured me that the last thing he wants to do is put a barrier to farm transitions. He's heard you loud and clear. We are in a consultation period. I'm sure CFA will be commenting up to October 2 and has already provided some comments, but thanks for raising that. It is an important issue. The last thing we want to do is create an extra barrier for farm transition.
Mr. Le Vallée, you said that the policy should include nutritional security. If highway 401 or highway 40 were closed for 48 hours, we would soon have a food supply problem in our markets. That makes me realize how fragile our system is.
Should that be included in the food policy?
4:15 p.m.
Associate Director, Food Horizons Canada, The Conference Board of Canada
Absolutely.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
4:15 p.m.
Associate Director, Food Horizons Canada, The Conference Board of Canada
We should approach it in terms of what I call resilience. On the economic, social and environmental fronts, this would provide the food system and the players in the food chain with mechanisms that would be triggered in the event of an emergency.
As you said, we are talking about a few days. The same is true for the city of Ottawa; we are talking about four or five days. If food were no longer delivered to the cities, we would have to make do with the food we had at home. But most people would not have enough.
This year, I prepared a status report about food. I looked at whether people were ready for this possibility. More than half of Canadians would have food for only one day in the event of an emergency.
Food security is important in the short term and in critical moments. You talked about nutritional security, but the term “food security” is more exact. Food security is the availability of food, the physical, economic and cultural access to food, and its use. Resilience supports those three pillars, if I can put it that way. Those tools are there in the long term as well.
Of course the army and the Red Cross could be a solution, but in the case of a city of several million people, only certain areas would be served. The entire population must be able to build community food security, which would also be supported by a national policy.
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
Francis Drouin Liberal Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON
Thank you very much, Mr. Le Vallée.
Scott, it's great to see you again. I have a quick question.
I've been reading your national food strategy, and you've talked about some of the environment perspective. In it, you're talking about international agreements with trading partners having been signed on environmental standards for food production, processing, and inspections. I know that's one of the goals we are trying to achieve through NAFTA, and I know it's created some barriers for farmers on our side in terms of exports, because our environmental standards are not the same. When we talk about food policy, how important is it to align our markets wherever Canada chooses to go?
4:20 p.m.
Director of Business Risk Management and Farm Policy, Canadian Federation of Agriculture
Regulatory harmonization is always a key focal point of the industry, and a national food policy, by virtue of the scope and breadth that it must take, really needs to focus on that issue. It's a critical issue for us in terms of the NAFTA discussions, but more broadly around creating further opportunities for trade for this sector moving forward. When we look at opportunities for growth in this sector, regulatory harmonization is going to be critical to taking advantage of a lot of those. We continue to see a series of non-tariff trade barriers arising on a whole myriad of different technical issues. This leads to a lot of missed opportunities and lost sales for Canadian producers.
Ultimately what we need to see is a focus on working with industry and giving industry a very clear leadership role in this process to help identify and address a lot of the issues that are arising. Regulatory harmonization isn't just one issue; it's a never-ending series of technical matters that can arise. Certainly it's a critical piece of this puzzle from our perspective.
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
Francis Drouin Liberal Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON
One of the issues Canadians have expressed is making sure that food is affordable. Part of that affordability has to be the transportation system, ensuring we get foods to markets quicker and somehow in a cheap fashion. Has an analysis been done by your organization to find out what the status is in Canada in terms of the transportation system for farmers?
4:20 p.m.
Director of Business Risk Management and Farm Policy, Canadian Federation of Agriculture
I wouldn't say we've done a cross-cutting study on every aspect of it. Certainly we've seen issues over the past few years with some of the railway performance, and there has been a lot of work done on that front. I can certainly share any of the work we've done on that front, if there's an interest.
I would say on the issue of food affordability that your question speaks very much to our perspective, in that Canada is one of the most affordable countries in the world in which to procure food. When we look at the stats, we find ourselves third in the world in cost per capita and the ratio of your disposable income that goes to food. Canada's producers are doing a lot of great work in terms of efficiently producing food on an affordable basis.
There are issues with transportation, particularly when you look at northern communities, and there's a lot of work to be done. I can't say we've done a comprehensive study of all the different aspects of trade and transportation barriers within Canada, but we certainly see it as a key element of a food policy, recognizing that primary producers in Canada and our food production value chain are doing a great job already of providing affordable food. Certainly transportation is an area in which more attention is needed, in some respects.
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Pat Finnigan
Thank you, Mr. Ross.
Thank you, Mr. Drouin.
Mr. Breton, you have the floor for six minutes.
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
Pierre Breton Liberal Shefford, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I would like to welcome all our colleagues joining us as new members to the committee. I am pleased to be working with you on this study of a food policy.
My question is for each of you.
I'm really interested in the whole issue of education about the food policy. In terms of the environment, just think how much time and energy have been invested over the past 20 years to ensure that consumers and the entire population recycle. Today, we feel guilty if we throw a small plastic jar in the garbage instead of the recycling bin. The fact remains that it has taken that many years. My fondest hope is that the educational aspect plays a significant role in the new food policy. I would like to hear your comments on that.
Clearly, when consumers choose a product, they need to know what they are buying, what the nutritional value of the product is, and so on. You must have an opinion on the matter.
Let me start with you, Mr. Le Vallée.
4:25 p.m.
Associate Director, Food Horizons Canada, The Conference Board of Canada
In some vulnerable groups, so-called food literacy is low. That's partly because they do not acquire that knowledge at home or at school, where programs no longer include home economics courses. They rely primarily on the agri-food industry, advertisements, chefs and, to a lesser extent, Canada's Food Guide. In fact, as a university professor, I can tell you that only about one-tenth of my students have read Canada's Food Guide. And we are talking about university students. So an effort needs to be made to get food back into school curricula. In the labour market, this is also an area that may attract people, encouraging them to increase their knowledge. The sector provides a lot of opportunities.
I also want to talk about costs. There are vulnerable groups, such as single mothers and fathers, who are most at risk among Canadian families. There are also more disadvantaged people. Inuit in the north are the most affected in Canada. They are a small group with only about 45,000 or 60,000 people. Those communities have traditionally obtained their food from hunting and fishing, and they are not used to our diet. They learn about it, but young people leave their communities. It is sort of like farming where young people leave the family farm. So we have to find a way to retain people, to educate them and to give them the opportunity to discover this sector.
4:25 p.m.
Liberal
Pierre Breton Liberal Shefford, QC
Thank you very much.
Mr. Masciotra, Mr. Adolphe, would you like to comment on that?