Agriculture Committee on Nov. 30th, 2017

[Ruth Ellen Brosseau, NDP, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

We'll have to wait and see or they'll have to try to fit it into a program.

[Chris Forbes]

Yes.

The second part is that we do have a value-chain round table with the organic sector—

[Ruth Ellen Brosseau, NDP, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Yes.

[Chris Forbes]

—that does try to work through some of these issues about coordination and, again, how we can leverage different efforts for consultation and engagement. I know that doesn't answer your funding question per se, but it—

[Ruth Ellen Brosseau, NDP, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

No, it doesn't. Because they don't have the support of the federal government, it does put the Canadian organic sector at a disadvantage compared to our trading partners. We know that when people are getting into farming, especially young farmers, they're getting more and more into organic, and there is no support here to transition to organic, compared to other countries. That's something the government should look into, because it's an important industry. We're really hoping to have some kind of clear support from the government on this.

It was brought up quickly at committee by Monsieur Drouin that we're signing trade agreements. We have the TOP and they're looking at China and at NAFTA. Our committee travelled and met with a lot of elected officials in the States. They said “we have to do no harm”, but we know that supply management is under threat. It is disconcerting. The state of supply management does concern me.

We have the Auditor General's report that came out and clarified and validated that there are significant losses. There are problems with CBSA. I would have liked to have the minister answer this question more about reaffirming support for supply management and making sure that we do not have any more market access into our country.

Can I ask questions on CFIA? Would you be able to answer questions on CFIA on another subject?

[Chris Forbes]

We're Agriculture Canada, so if it's a financial issue or a program issue related to our material, yes.

[Ruth Ellen Brosseau, NDP, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Okay.

There is one big concern that I've been getting questions on. How is the government evaluating and reviewing the business risk management programs? There were some programs that worked well, but others needed improvement. How are you working with industry and farmers to make sure government is getting it right this time?

[Chris Forbes]

We working first of all with the provinces and territories, which are obviously our financial partners in BAM, and then obviously the farmers and industry are the users of the programs, so all are involved. The process is a joint federal-provincial process. The minister has tasked us with coming back by next July with the results of a review of the BAM suite of programs to ensure they are effective in the current and future environments.

There are a couple of aspects to it. There's an external panel that we're putting together. It's not entirely finalized or not entirely done yet, but probably about half a dozen academics, individual producers, and external experts would bring a range of expertise to support a review of the program. There will be some work done by officials, and there will also be engagement processes with the stakeholder groups.

[Ruth Ellen Brosseau, NDP, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Will there be flexibility throughout the five years? Will the panel be able to make recommendations over the next few years? If a program isn't working, would it be possible for there be modifications? We know that AgriStability didn't get much take-up.

[Chris Forbes]

The minister's task was to have a review, with results or recommendations back by next July. I don't want to prejudge the outcome as to whether those would be specific changes, directional...or exactly how those will look. We'll have to see exactly how that plays out.

[Ruth Ellen Brosseau, NDP, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

I had a lot of questions on CFIA. Maybe I could table a motion to have the CFIA come to the agriculture committee, because I have a lot of questions for them.

You confirmed earlier in the first round that you will be able to give us the numbers for the applications received from producers, broken down by province and territory. Is that available?

[Chris Forbes]

Yes. I think the minister committed to that. We can share that material.

[Ruth Ellen Brosseau, NDP, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

We have no idea when the program will open again?

[Chris Forbes]

Well, I don't have a precise date. I say in the next few months; when exactly over the winter or spring that will be I think will depend a bit on a range of issues, but we will try to do that in the time.

[Ruth Ellen Brosseau, NDP, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Also, there's no more money?

[Chris Forbes]

The program is a $250-million program, yes. That's the way programs work.

[The Chair, Liberal, Pat Finnigan]

Thank you, Ms. Brosseau.

Thank you, Mr. Forbes.

Mr. Peschisolido, you have six minutes.

[Joe Peschisolido, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

Mr. Chair, thank you. I'd like to again thank Deputy Minister Forbes and Monsieur Corriveau for being here and answering our questions.

I'd like to follow up on Madam Brosseau's question on organic farming.

Organic farming is important to me. It's important to my constituents. A lot of farmers are in the organic industry. It seems to be a burgeoning field. In my view—and there's a lot of support from other members of our caucus—not only are organics important, but they can work very well with a traditional model of farming.

If I were to ask you if there was an application for, let's say, $600,000 for long-term funding to create a multi-year system for a certification plan, is that something that's feasible? Also, would the department be open to having Canadian farmers on par with farmers in the States and other parts of the world when they try to export our organic products to other markets?

[Chris Forbes]

Again, I hate to comment on a hypothetical application, but certainly we have a range of programming, depending on the nature of what someone is looking for, whether it's assurance.... We do marketing programming for people looking to export. We have science and innovation programs, and indeed, organic farmers and organizations do get funding under some of our research and commercialization programming right now.

There's nothing a priori that would tell me that, whether it was under the assurance stream, whether it was under.... I can't say “this one would get it”, but there's nothing a priori that tells me that a specific program application will be turned down because it was from the organic sector versus any other sector. In fact, we have a track record of funding in all the areas of our programming.

[Joe Peschisolido, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

Mr. Forbes, as I mentioned earlier on, there's a great deal of support for the organic industry within the Liberal caucus. Perhaps, rather than on the specifics, I can get your thoughts on how the department views the organic industry.

[Chris Forbes]

Certainly our view would be that we want to give producers the choice to produce the way they want to produce. Certainly if there are those who wish to produce in an organic fashion, there would be no reason to dissuade them. We look at our research proposals and where we do research. We try to do research in a broad range of areas of public interest or where there's public good, and certainly there may be reason to do that in the organics as much as anywhere else.

We're open to good science, as I say. When people are marketing, we're not looking at whether it's organic versus non-organic. We will promote it if it's a good proposal with a good marketing plan. Those are the projects we're looking for.

[Joe Peschisolido, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

In the minister's mandate letter, our Prime Minister mandated a food security policy. Can you elaborate a little on how the department views the CAP program and how that could be helpful to a food security policy?

[Chris Forbes]

Yes. In terms of the CAP program, the food policy covers food safety, health, and the economic side. When you look at some of the programming there, certainly all these areas are ones that can be supported by programming under the agricultural partnership and potentially other areas.

On the economic side, we're looking at growing markets. Exports are a priority under CAP, and certainly under the assurance program, issues of food safety and food production methods come up. We certainly think the CAP is a good complementary piece or good input into what we hope is a successful food policy.

[Joe Peschisolido, Liberal, Steveston—Richmond East, BC]

Mr. Forbes, I'd also like to follow up on a question I asked the minister on CAP program funding or other funding for educational institutions. I talked about Kwantlen Polytechnic University and its farming program, but there are these institutions all across Canada. Can you elaborate a little on how the CAP program and other funding envelopes can be helpful to our educational institutions?

[Chris Forbes]

Well, certainly on a couple of fronts, and one is that our research is very collaborative. Our researchers work with industry, with academia, both domestically and internationally, and with the provinces in terms of the research agenda, much of which comes under CAP. You will see a lot of partnerships where our scientists are working with researchers in universities to support industry's priorities.

Also, I'll say from a university standpoint that we are a big hirer. We are the biggest agricultural research group in the country. To the extent that we're hiring and bringing in new people, they are graduates, whether with masters' degrees or doctorates, frequently from Canadian institutions. We have very good links there.

As maybe a final point, we are in some cases co-located or nearly co-located. I think of Saskatoon as an example, where we're right in the middle of the University of Saskatoon, so there are a lot of day-to-day synergies with the relationship.