Evidence of meeting #84 for Agriculture and Agri-Food in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was change.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5 p.m.
Liberal
Joe Peschisolido Liberal Steveston—Richmond East, BC
You also mentioned a different approach to infrastructure—
5 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Pat Finnigan
I'm sorry, Mr. Peschisolido, but that ends your time.
Ms. Brosseau, you have the floor for six minutes.
5 p.m.
NDP
Ruth Ellen Brosseau NDP Berthier—Maskinongé, QC
Thank you, Chair.
I'd like to thank both witnesses for their participation at committee. Their experience and knowledge is really impressive.
I represent a riding that straddles the St. Lawrence River in Quebec. In the springtime, we had a lot of flooding. Usually the people who live close to the water get it for a few weeks. They're used to it. They get out their boots, and they just deal with the flooding. However, a lot of people were stuck in flooding for months. A lot of farmers weren't able to get out and work the fields. Usually they start a few weeks later, but it was months. A lot of people in Saint-Barthélemy and Maskinongé have lost significant amounts of money. One dairy farmer wasn't able to produce enough grain for his cows, and he had to buy it. It was $100,000 to $150,000 to feed his cows this year. One year it's drought; the next year it's flooding.
I know that in the federal government we negotiate business risk management programs with the provinces. They're supposed to be there. These are tools we have to help farmers when there are issues like this.
Mr. Sauchyn, could you comment on the importance of the government's taking a leadership role in elaborating a strategy, an agroforestry shelter belt?
Prevention is better than cure, as we say.
This is an opportunity for the government to show a lot of leadership, work with education, and, if need be, incentivize producers to adopt different practices.
5:05 p.m.
Professor, Prairie Adaptation Research Collaborative, University of Regina, As an Individual
You mentioned leadership, and an important element of leadership is to take a broader view of things—over a large country, but especially over time.
Working with our colleagues in the west, we've clearly documented these wet and dry cycles that reoccur. I mentioned that we have 900 years of climate history. We're in the midst of a wet cycle; not only in the St. Lawrence lowlands but also in parts of Manitoba, this farmland has been under water now for close to a decade, but we know almost certainly that there's going to be a shift and there's going to be a long dry period. This water will not only disappear, but there will also be a shortage of water.
Whereas understandably producers are focused on the next growing season, government needs to have a longer viewpoint and recognize that there are these cycles and that there has to be leadership and programming to enable farmers to withstand periods in which there is too much water and periods in which there is not enough, and to capitalize on those times when the growing conditions are favourable.
5:05 p.m.
NDP
Ruth Ellen Brosseau NDP Berthier—Maskinongé, QC
It's really important, as you said, to have a long-term vision, because we often see strategies or programs that last a few years, five years, but there needs to be an overall vision for the long term.
Could you comment a little bit more on where we are at with PFRA? In the House we have asked questions of the minister during question period—it is during question period most of the time—and we don't really get answers, but at least we're on record on certain things. Could you comment on where we are at currently with the divestment of that land and the importance of conservation? There are a lot of endangered animals.
Would you speak to that, and maybe to some possible solutions? In your presentation you said that you don't expect the government will restore PFRA, but is there anything they could do right now?
I would like to have your comments on that, please.
5:05 p.m.
Professor, Prairie Adaptation Research Collaborative, University of Regina, As an Individual
I can speak at least to the situation in Saskatchewan. It is the province that had the vast majority of the PFRA community pasture. Also, the infrastructure that was owned by the Government of Canada was primarily, as far as I know, in Saskatchewan.
The government has divested itself of that irrigation infrastructure and the PFRA community pastures. The expectation is that local people will take them over, but the local people tell me they just don't have the capacity to do that.
There was also the expectation that the Province of Saskatchewan would assume management of the community pastures. They don't really have much of an interest either, so the concern is that this community pasture will fall into private ownership, which isn't necessarily bad as long as the private owners are committed to preserving the native prairie. After all, most of the native prairie is gone, and much of what remains is in these PFRA community pastures. That process is ongoing in terms of the fate of these former community pastures.
5:10 p.m.
NDP
Ruth Ellen Brosseau NDP Berthier—Maskinongé, QC
In the notes that you presented to members at committee, you talked about the expectation in our country, but not elsewhere, that agricultural producers should bear the cost of protecting the ecological goods and services that make our lives possible, and the fact that farmers should not be financially disadvantaged for providing this service that benefits all of us. We talk often at committee about trade and what's going on with our major trading partners, what other countries are doing. In the United States they have agroforestry and they incentivize farmers and communities to adopt certain practices.
Do you think it would be beneficial for the government to adopt a similar measure?
5:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Pat Finnigan
Thank you, Ms. Brosseau. Unfortunately we won't have time to hear the answer.
I now yield the floor to Ms. Nassif for six minutes.
5:10 p.m.
Liberal
Eva Nassif Liberal Vimy, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I want to thank the witnesses for their presentations.
I think it is fair to think that there is always room in research to develop better policies, technologies and practices to fight climate change and pursue sustainable development. That said, I am curious to know what we have done and what we are doing now.
My question is addressed to you, Mr. Sauchyn. You have 30 years of experience with climate change. You are aware of methods we have put in place to preserve our soil. In your opinion, are our methods currently adequate to meet immediate needs? Do we have what we need to implement them everywhere in Canada, or is there an urgent need to acquire innovative new methods, for example?
5:10 p.m.
Professor, Prairie Adaptation Research Collaborative, University of Regina, As an Individual
As you can expect, I would say no, we're not sufficiently prepared. We still have some work to do, especially in the context of the loss of institutional capacity within the Government of Canada for assisting at least farmers in the west.
In my experience, much of the focus in the climate change file has been on mitigation—limiting greenhouse gas emissions, storing carbon. Mitigation still remains the focus of policy and practice in Canada, but there is an adaptation imperative. There is increasing awareness that we have changed the climate, and it will continue to change; therefore, we have to prepare Canadians for a changing climate. It's encouraging to see that there were new federal programs announced in the last budget that make resources available for research on adaptation as well as for implementation of that research.
5:10 p.m.
Prof. Stewart Rood
There is one thing. I acknowledge that the federal government did make a very major investment in aspects related to water and climate change with the global water security program. I'm not sure—David might remember—but I think it's $70 million. It will, I think, be a better-integrated and larger commitment to better understanding the impacts of climate change on water resources, not just in western Canada but across Canada and worldwide. I think that's a really positive thing.
I would guess that David would agree with me that it would have been nice to have had that investment one or two decades ago.
5:10 p.m.
Liberal
Eva Nassif Liberal Vimy, QC
Thank you.
We all know that climate change is having adverse repercussions on everything. However, according to Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada, global warming may have positive aspects for the Canadian agricultural sector, because it may extend growing seasons and reduce the cost of animal feed. However, climate change could lead to serious droughts and more frequent violent storms, as well as contribute to increasing insect infestations and pathogens.
Are Canadian farmers in a position to increase their productivity, given the possible effects of global warming? I'm referring to agriculture in Canada, naturally.
5:15 p.m.
Professor, Prairie Adaptation Research Collaborative, University of Regina, As an Individual
Right. The perception of Canada from places like the U.K. and Washington is that Canada is going to boom under a warming climate because we're a cold country. If you look in more detail....
In fact, we've collaborated with agricultural researchers at the University of Saskatchewan and the University of Guelph. They have these models that simulate the production of various crops. We give them data from climate models. We give them a climate scenario, and they apply it to their crop model. The results are much higher yields in the future—in some cases, yields that are two to three times higher—just based on an increase in temperature and a longer growing season.
However, what they don't factor in is, as you said, the impacts of the pests, the pathogens, the disease vectors, and they don't necessarily factor in the impact of extremes. When they factor in the variability of the future climate, they discover that yes, on average, yields are higher, but they can be very high or very low from year to year. The message we give to agricultural producers is that in the future you could have very high yields, but you could also have no yield at all. If you want to capitalize on a warmer climate, be prepared to have wildly fluctuating yields from year to year.
5:15 p.m.
Prof. Stewart Rood
It's interesting. This point was also raised by Dr. Desrochers earlier on. I thought his early point that all agriculture in Canada is going to benefit was a little bit flowery. I think David's suggestion is more realistic. There will be some winners and there will be some losers. I would certainly say I'd rather be involved in agriculture in Canada than in Mexico, relative to climate change, but again the issue of variability is interesting.
One other element is that I think Canada will have a greater responsibility globally to help out with food production, partly because of our context and our wealth of physical landscapes.
5:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Pat Finnigan
Thank you, Mr. Rood.
Thank you, Ms. Nassif.
Now, we have Mr. Longfield for six minutes.
5:15 p.m.
Liberal
Lloyd Longfield Liberal Guelph, ON
Thank you.
Mr. Sauchyn, I grew up in Winnipeg. I hate to admit it was the sixties when I was hearing about PFRA when I was in school in grade 3 or 4. I remember talking to my parents while we were driving down the highway about those rectangular ponds that we saw, and that those were PFRA.
The relationship between PFRA and the federal government and the provincial governments.... If we were to reconstruct PFRA, what kind of a challenge would we face?
5:15 p.m.
Professor, Prairie Adaptation Research Collaborative, University of Regina, As an Individual
I think the major challenge is that you've lost a lot of technical capacity because a lot of people were laid off. They were surplused or retired. It would be difficult to assemble such a large, competent team of soil scientists, engineers, and hydrologists and get them out of retirement.
It would be quite difficult to reconstruct PFRA the way it was, but nonetheless I expect there's going to be some type of agency like that arising from the Government of Canada's current climate change adaptation initiative. There's all this research that's being supported on adaptation, and it has to be translated, as Professor Rood said. The translational research needs to be done. That's something that PFRA was especially good at—taking research to the farmers.
5:15 p.m.
Liberal
Lloyd Longfield Liberal Guelph, ON
In the case of Ducks Unlimited, there's a potential relationship there. As part of our study, is that a group we should be getting some input from?
5:15 p.m.
Professor, Prairie Adaptation Research Collaborative, University of Regina, As an Individual
I would suggest you should, because there's an issue in the Prairies of the draining of wetlands, especially the eastern part of the Prairies. A large amount of land that stored water has been drained.
5:15 p.m.
Liberal
Lloyd Longfield Liberal Guelph, ON
I'm very cognizant of time.
You mentioned a presentation. Is that something you could submit to us? You didn't get a chance to really talk in public with Agriculture Canada, but could it form some information for our study?
5:15 p.m.
Professor, Prairie Adaptation Research Collaborative, University of Regina, As an Individual
This was a major national conference on adaptation to climate change, and I was asked to speak and present the results of our study. There were people from the director level from Ag Canada in the room. I invited them to respond, but they felt that they couldn't in public. Afterwards, in private, they agreed that unfortunately that function had to go.